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and cites an undated "oral communication" by Doyle. The 1994 paper refers to "a fascinating observation of Peter Doyle" without citation. Based on these references, it is impossible to narrow down the timeframe of Doyle's contributions any more precisely. Note that MOS:DOUBT does not prohibit any wording; it merely says to be careful using some kinds of wording. But in this case the wording in question is not the kind of
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I could find on commons but there is a huge number of rosette window photos there, not well categorized, so maybe there is another one that is more clear. We do actually already have, in the article, a "clean example of a Doyle spiral in which all three families of spirals are nonlinear": it's the
Coxeter loxodromic sequence. But I don't know of any others on commons (see
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doesn't seem to say anything about placement beyond "near the relevant text". The purpose of these images for me is to illustrate the first paragraph of that section, about how you count arms, which is why I put it after that paragraph. The other paragraph is elaboration on stuff you can do with arm
1266:
That's why it says "the window's other circles do not follow the same pattern"; you think the same thing could be said more clearly? We do have an actual published source for the connection between spirals of circles and church rosette windows, the Fernández-Cabo reference; that was the best example
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I was trying to contrast both the logarithmic-spiral placement of the circles in the Doyle spiral with the Fermat-spiral placement in the other pattern, and the growth of the circles in the Doyle spiral with the fixed size of the circles in the other pattern. So they differ in two key ways, not just
1251:
Oh also: the church window photo is pretty, but a little misleading. My understanding, perhaps faulty, is that the two rings are fine, but the middlemost circle bucks the pattern? I think this could be explained a bit better ("please ignore the middle circle!"). It'd be nice to have a clean example
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an expression of doubt. As the references state more precisely and clearly, the first published appearance of Doyle's contributions is in a paper by someone else, in 1992 and another paper by yet another group of non-Doyles in 1994. The 1992 paper refers to them as "Peter Doyle's unpublished ideas"
359:
This is not deserving of its own section and see-also section header link, but it is too central to the phyllotaxis application to separate it from the application section and provide only a bare link in a see-also section, stripped of its context. I think the current full paragraph length is the
1285:
Yes I did see that but I would focus on excommunicating the middle circle because the outer circles don’t particularly matter anyway. Could be like “the window’s other circles, including the center one, do not follow the same pattern”. And yes, Coxeter’s sequence follows my criteria but is a bit
987:
It's a discrete subgroup of the multiplicative group of complex numbers. It has the graph of the spiral as a Cayley graph (with a redundant set of generators that step along all three spiral arms). But our main source on its symmetries (Bobenko and
Hoffmann) doesn't seem to say any of this. The
636:
You did notice the immediately following sentence, that if you apply the exponential function to a regular hexagonal packing you get something that looks a lot like the Doyle tiling? It was intended as the explanation for this analogy. There's a more detailed explanation of the same analogy at
534:
Correct citation style for journal or magazine articles is to cite the entire range of pages of the article. Our citation templates do not provide the means to correctly cite the place where an article appears (its journal or magazine, date, range of pages, etc.) and to also cite any specific
1187:
one: they place the circles on different shapes of spiral curves, and they change or don't change the sizes of the circles in different ways. Despite which there are sources that confuse them (see web link above). I'd welcome suggestions for other ways of making this point more clearly. —
1169:
The Doyle spiral, in which the circle centers lie on logarithmic spirals and their radii increase geometrically in proportion to their distance from the central limit point, should be distinguished from a different spiral pattern of disjoint but non-tangent unit
906:
Never. You can count the arms by looking only at the graph, and the different arm counts show that Doyle spirals with different parameters always have different graphs. I don't know of a source explicitly saying they're always non-isomorphic as graphs, though.
521:
Each source looks reliable at first glance (ref #2 is a bit nonstandard, but I won't complain), and ~everything is cited somewhere so I don't think we need to worry about OR. I can't see most of them because of paywalls and such, but I've checked a
641:(bearing in mind that the exponential function is an example of a conformal map). Do you think it would be helpful to provide another see-also type link there, like the one for the Fermat spiral unit circle packing phyllotaxis model? —
973:"have symmetries that combine scaling and rotation around the central point" Cool, but what is the actual group structure? (Needn't be too much in depth, but for example, what degree rotational symmetry does it have?)
1252:
of a Doyle spiral in which all three families of spirals are nonlinear; the first image in the article has a linear family. Are there no nice such photos on
Commons? Not a requirement for GA, but I could make some.
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I don't think so. It is important to mention that the article is about mathematics, because readers might not recognize that from the more technical phrase "circle packing" also used to provide context. But
1138:"the space of realizations of locally-square spiral packings is infinite-dimensional" Why is "realizations of" necessary? You could say "space of... packings in the plane" if you want to be super explicit
1172:
Why restate the Doyle spiral's logarithmic features when we don't mention Fermat's lack of them? I'd only contrast that the Doyle spiral has circles of varying radii, the most fundamental difference.
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Overall I think this article is well-written and understandable - no grammar errors pop out at me. The lead section is okay, though short. The layout and wording are fine. Minor opinionated nitpicks:
1340:
I think all issues discussed above have been addressed (and, separately, some nice images by Ovinus added to the article), so the ball is in your court for a decision on this nomination. —
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is specifically about the combinatorial patterns of tangent circles in the plane, of arbitrary and varying sizes, leaving gaps surrounded by exactly three circles. On the other hand,
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warns us not to link "Everyday words understood by most readers in context (e.g., education, violence, aircraft, river)". I think mathematics is at the same level as those words. —
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Update: As part of some other copyedits, I found a way to work the "for more" link into the main text of the paragraph, instead of having a separate "for more" sentence. —
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I found more on this in another source and added another sentence linking the Doyle spiral to the exponential map by an analogy involving the radius-ratio parameters and
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The Doyle spirals form a discrete analogue of the exponential function, as part of the more general use of circle packings as discrete analogues of conformal maps.
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I think as the official reviewer you're supposed to actually take action rather than just making a vote. But now I'm curious: why the bottom of the section?
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Hm, fair enough to make that distinction. How about just separate it into two sentences for these two related points? The original was just a bit tedious.
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Again, the article is short (if I weren't doing this good article review I would probably rate it as C-class), but it does a good job of staying on topic.
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but I'm skeptical that it's a reliable source, especially because it doesn't carefully distinguish between Doyle spirals and Fermat spirals. —
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location within that article. We can point to pages or ranges of pages within book citations, but not within articles. (Do not tell me about
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is more focused on how densely one can pack unit circles into given shapes, and much less about the pattern of tangencies of the circles. —
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warns against. It is merely an accurate representation of the knowledge that can or in this case cannot be gleaned from the sources. —
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I did find a paper classifying these discrete subgroups, but unfortunately without any mention of their connection to Doyle spirals:
1271:). If you can figure out a way to get a nice svg format image from the Doyle spiral explorer extlink, that might be a possibility. —
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counts that is not really specifically illustrated. And I also am confused what might be contradictory in the caption. —
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OK, maybe rephrase this as {{tq|around the early 1990s}} (which is what your summary of the refs seems to indicate).
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I'm not convinced this makes any difference in grammatical correctness or meaning, but it's harmless enough; done. —
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Ref #6 is dense and I can't quite see how it supports some of the statements that cite it, but no obvious mistakes.
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contradicts the stained glass window's caption, which claims that the window represents a Doyle spiral of type
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Interesting. Alas I don't have access to that paper, but it makes sense that discrete infinite subgroups of
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extreme ;) I will make an SVG if/when I have time tonight (but again, not particularly relevant for GA).
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Thanks for passing! I indeed totally forgot about this after completely botching the GA review closure.
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Yeah that’s what I’d surmised (both that they weren’t ever isomorphic and that there’d be no sources)
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Ref #3 should also only cite pages 119–122. Also it only seems to discuss the geometry of the spiral,
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It seems he's gone AWOL.... I think it's alright to IAR close it in a few days, given his support.
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Ref #1 should really only cite page 455, since the other pages don't discuss this spiral at all.
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939:"uniquely up to scaling and rotation" link to "similarity"? Maybe that's a bit of an easter egg
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expression of doubt, introducing an editorial opinion in a backhanded way, that
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An example can be seen in the stained glass church window shown, of type (8,8).
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Mihaila, Ioana (2006), "Constructions of multiplicative-periodic functions on
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https://www.science.smith.edu/phyllo/About/Lattices/SpiralLattices.html
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For more, see Fermat's spiral § The golden ratio and the golden angle.
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discrete subgroup of complex part is briefly mentioned at web page
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No problems here (one of the benefits of writing about math IMHO!)
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Is there an isomorphism of graphs between any two Doyle spirals?
293:(emphasis mine, don't actually put it in), as this reads like an
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Circle packing theorem#Relations with conformal mapping theory
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this as a good article, though this warrants another opinion.
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Sounds good. It’s interesting how those articles are named.
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correct amount of content to devote to this related topic. —
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and the gallery caption seems contradictory, but whatever.)
1356:(The images by Ovinus should go at the bottom of section
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Am quite happy with the current state of the article.
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wrote the vast majority of this, but whatever \shrug)
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Fermat's spiral#The golden ratio and the golden angle
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Typo, fixed, thanks for catching. Also copyedited. —
848:I hadn't thought carefully about that, but I think
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1006:Understood. That’s sad there isn’t an RS for that
258:in the lead sentence or get rid of it altogether.
742:and other media, where possible and appropriate.
356:, because the current way is a bit clickbait-y.
1433:Hello? Do you intend to complete this review? —
352:section or {{see also}} instance that links to
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188:Pretty well done, although it's short.
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1044:{\displaystyle \mathbb {C} ^{*}}
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1109:{\displaystyle C^{\times }}
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1215:Copyedited. Better now? —
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1465:I'm going to pass this.
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749:non-free use rationales
194:reasonably well written
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1236:An enjoyable article.
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822:Any reason to link
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295:expression of doubt
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725:No problems here (
715:No edit wars, etc.
448:factually accurate
287:in the late 1980s
1358:Counting the arms
1297:Ok, copyedited. —
767:suitable captions
586:No copyvio issues
463:reference section
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117:Article talk
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81:Instructions
291:early 1990s
256:mathematics
225:word choice
104:visual edit
1481:Duckmather
1429:Duckmather
1401:Duckmather
1381:WP:GALLERY
1367:Duckmather
1336:Duckmather
1152:Removed. —
1059:(1): 1–7,
955:similarity
509:plagiarism
453:verifiable
395:should be
331:Duckmather
147:Duckmather
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
793:Pass/Fail
311:MOS:DOUBT
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
564:Ditto. —
350:See also
157:contribs
76:Criteria
1363:Support
1170:circles
1072:2201252
805:support
787:Overall
617:focused
584:(Also,
505:copyvio
300:But it
229:fiction
127:history
108:history
94:Article
1467:Ovinus
1463:WT:GAN
1449:Ovinus
1414:Ovinus
1320:Ovinus
1288:Ovinus
1254:Ovinus
1238:Ovinus
1203:Ovinus
1174:Ovinus
1140:Ovinus
1118:Ovinus
1008:Ovinus
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923:Ovinus
894:Ovinus
876:Ovinus
836:Ovinus
739:images
709:stable
707:It is
684:policy
592:It is
446:It is
423:(9, 9)
307:biased
231:, and
221:layout
192:It is
173:review
765:with
233:lists
175:(see
136:Watch
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217:lead
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