1512:
quite likely be different thus song choices would be different. I included the audition songs as those were the first instances of national exposure where these artists started building their persona and reputation for this competition. The lone exception is "Crazy" which wasn't broadcast for licensing issues and we've got a reference for that. And "references" and "notes" are used interchangably, this was an earlier solution that had been worked out and I see no problem including it to help readers understand the inclusion of the song. If the article ever goes to
Featured status I'm sure they can find a more elegant solution if this doesn't seem satisfactory. I also didn't mean to suggest that
1404:
Idol doesn't own BLP articles and there is no need for them to be consistent once the competition is done, fancruft is unencyclopedic. I believe this to be true, no one is seriously suggesting that all this year's articles match each other? No one expects
Fantasia's and Kelly Clarkson's to match nor should we expect all from this year's competition to be identical. These are living people and their articles conform to BLP rules, they shouldn't match each other actually. this point was made prior with noting religion, fans and sexuality; if it's notable then fine but just because
31:
1413:). In addition to removing extra material that doesn't seem to be helpful I was adding in three footnotes which I think had been previously agreed upon as well as wikilinks and the table was sortable which displays chronologically on the first load but allows readers to sort every column which would also seem to be helpful. Sortable table also don't require extra color formatting so even though the table was expanded it's volume decreased.
1236:, but on Knowledge (XXG) we simply do not further a label that they don't use for themselves nor is really used in the public eye. Of course, Ferrara and Archuleta having Honduran ancestry are known facts, but people simply aren't going around calling them Honduran Americans, they don't say "I am Honduran American" (or at least sources don't show that) and hence, Knowledge (XXG) doesn't make that assumption.
746:. It isn't an outright ban, but I can guarantee you that what you linked to is a copyright violation since it's taken straight from American Idol. In principle, you are correct, but the copyright policies we have (plus the fact that YouTube material can easily be manipulated even if this particular video wasn't), makes it generally not ok to link to YouTube. There are exceptions, of course, but not many. --
2081:
1257:. Just because some source somewhere called him a "Honduran-American", doesn't mean it's significant enough for the lead. If he sang Honduran music, or regularly identified himself Honduran-American, that would be one thing. Otherwise, this is a minor personal detail that should be mentioned (and already is) in the bio section of the article.
786:
1186:, I am a German American under the defintion of that term, but I don't identify as such and neither do others identify me in such a way. If I were famous, it would not be up to the discretion of Wikipedians to give me this label in my article. Knowledge (XXG) simply repeats what is already given in reliable sources.
332:
Word choices are sometimes awkward and the description of him coming in second place seems to be one that we are looking for a best fit (with several changes occurring). I changed it for now to "he became" first runner up. It wasn't a proclamation, but a contest ranking so maybe we can discuss this
1511:
OK, well I can see why you reverted at least. To stay constructive here, there seems little evidence that the order they performed is that notable but even AI issues regular press releases about the mentors of which it's noted they were fewer this year. If it wasn't for those mentors the theme would
1403:
I completely updated the table and removed the order number (whether David performed his song 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) - what I deem fancruft. This was reverted, and I re-added it with explanation. This was again reverted, mistakenly claiming I provided no explanation, which I did. I explained, American
1210:
He is specifically identified as a
Honduran-American in the first link I provided. Here is the link were David is specifically identified by those term. "David James Archuleta is a Honduran American with dark brown hair and hazel eyes who was born on December 28, 1990 in Miami, Florida, USA. Critics
1130:
OK, he's
Honduran-American, but that should not be the first thing said about him. He doesn't sing ethnic music. He could as just as easily be said to be a "LDS" singer or a right handed singer. Since it seems some adjective is needed, changed it to a pop singer, which describes the music. Maybe
722:
OK, how is a youtube reference not reliable when the reference is a video of the person saying exactly what I referenced them saying in the article? I could reference a news story from a reliable source saying that they said this, but it would seem to me that a video of the person saying it directly
623:
Just came here to discuss this. Here are the facts... there are rumours galore that he has signed with Jive. ONE, I repeat, ONE reliable source, a houston chronicle blog, states in a weird, secretive way that Jive announced they
Archuleta will have an album out this summer. It doesnt actually state
1516:
violated BLP, but the BLP governs what content can be in a BLP and AI articles have little reason to match each other as much as conform to policies already in place. Every article grows at its own pace, decreeing that a set of BLPs has to match each other is a terrible idea. If there is identical
1476:
First off, I do not understand how you can claim the order they performed in is "fancruft" but somehow the mentors are necessary information to have in the table. Also if the order is also "fancruft", then the
Auditions/Hollywood/Top 50 are also "fancruft" since most people considered an American
1322:
I removed the sentence about his ethnicity because it was poorly sourced. The first two sources, Internet Movie DataBase and TV.com, can have trivia added by anyone. The third source, BuddyTV, also can have trivia added by anyone, but at least has a quote supposedly from David. Unfortunately if
916:
I've re-added this, I seem to remember we also had content showing how
Mormons were ideal reality show stars in some respect and it cited Archuleta. Also a dead link shouldn't be removed. We can use the wayback machine to see what was there on theat date - in this case it's more likely the article
2115:
Although Foster and
Pescetto remade the song in 1990, ORIGINALLY the Australian Farnham's track (released in '85/'86 overseas) was attempted a re-release by BMG records. It failed to chart, but the theme that week was not "Top 40 songs from your birth year". It was simply songs from the year they
1472:
I did the first revert because you changed the table with an edit summary of "Cleanup" and I did the second revert because you gave an explanation of "rv vandalism and table revert, AI doesn't own BLP articles and there is no need for them to be consistent once the compition is done, fancruft is
1287:
It could be in the lead if it were seen as pretty important to his career and identity, which it isn't. He talks about himself every week and his heritage has not been given much coverage at all. He's as much Basque-American as
Honduran-American so bring that material up in the section about his
1449:
Well, thank you, I obviously agree and hope that others do as well so we can update the table with consensus and avoid reverting. Just maybe the other AI articles will follow our lead. This article seems to get the most attention so it would be nice if other articles also improved as a result.
1480:
Secondly, how does the current table violate BLP, but your updated version does not? Also as a side not if we went with your updated version, the reference for John Farham would be better off as a hatnote next to the name and a footnote below the table since that is not actually a reference.
1147:
He doesn't sing ethnic music??? Is this a joke??? Do you know what
Honduran-American mean?? It just means he is half-Honduran. It is not an adjetive. That link does lead somewhere since you Gwynand wanted a third party source that identify him as Honduran-American or a source where he states
457:
This is correct, I've stated he has four siblings in the article. Although places on the web might state all his siblings names, there is no news article/reliable source that has given them, just blogs, etc. Please DONT add the names without a reliable source, it is somewhat a BLP issue.
1033:
I can't speak to it's being freely licensed but I'd be willing to bet that's the issue. The one of Cook on commons is freely licensed to the world while no free image of Archuleta has yet to be given. If you see him take a photo and consider freely licensing it for others to use!
1062:
Just because his mother is from Honduras, that means we label him as an Honduran American? I say that unless some third party source identifies him as such, or he clearly states somewhere he is an "Honduran American", then his inclusion in this category should be removed.
1353:
Personally I feel the table doesn't need to be sortable, is there really a benefit to it? And I feel it would look better if the columns were center aligned as they were prior, so if that were addressed I would care a bit less about the sortable feature Any thoughts?
1176:
Let's take a step back here. I am not suggesting that David is not half Honduran, or Basque. Those parts of info in the article are fine. I am saying, Knowledge (XXG) does not choose to further call Archuleta a "Honduran American" or "Basque American" if he is never
1017:
The Archuleta image that keeps popping up and being deleted is the same caliber as the David Cook image (if I'm rembering correctly). They both have a blue background with clouds. Yet Archuleta's image keeps being deleted, why is Cook's image sticking around?
1323:
you enter that quote in a Google search without the quotation marks the only hit is the BuddyTV page. The fourth source is just a repeat of the third source. None of these sources have the fact-checking required to be a reliable source on Knowledge (XXG).
624:
they signed him. Furthermore, the jive website is filled with press releases and a list of its artists, but there is NOTHING about Archuleta. I think we'll get some reliable news on this in the next few days, but until then, the info will have to stay out.
1211:
and fans alike call him a singing prodigy due to his early development and talent in singing. He has a growing fan base due to his numerous appearances on television talent shows like American Idol and Star Search . David sings Pop, R&B and Soul... "
2138:
His father is not Honduran I would refrain from calling him that, since it is not the most accurate nomer. Simply hispanic or Hispanic American is best, and not in the lead section, since that is not a contributing factor to his notability.--Esprit15d ā¢
1408:
AI singer has something on their article doesn't mean the others must or must not. we are always improving articles and getting rid of fancruft doesn't seem like a bad thing. I think this should be re-added (a copy of it in the article can be seen
653:
won be mentioned in the introduction to this article? I, personally, am rather indifferent on the issue, but I figured I'd create this section as an alternative to all the edit-warring that has been going on about it. (See also the discussion at
512:
That's not the point. The point is that the article is labelled as protected, but it isn't. A lot of the vandalism occurs because it is convenient. A lot can be avoided because they don't want the extra step of creating an account each time.
972:
I'm wondering if we should just axe the entire fan section. Who cares what his fans are called? A fan can look up his site and call themselves whatever he/she pleases. This isn't a fan website and the article is too long
2111:
Apparently, there's been some debate over which artist should be credited. Generally, the original artist is the one credited, but this is a unique situation--so I added a footnote next to Farnham's name on the chart.
869:
This should do the trick: "A Los Angeles Times article speculated why Archuleta avoided singing the first verse of 'Imagine': because 'of his religion (Mormonism), he's unlikely to espouse the song's agnostic ideal.'"
1161:) 18:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC) ! It's not the first thing to say about him. His claim to fame is singing pop music, not being a Honduran American. I just took the reference to his ethnic origins out of the first sentence.
404:
Oh man I didn't like it when I first saw proclaimed but it had already gone through several changes and didn't want to stir the pot. Became, I think is perfect. Well done to who changed it. Now I can rest in peace.
86:"If he wins American Idol on May 21st, 2008, he will become the youngest Idol in the show's history--one week before he would be exactly 17 and a half (6 days younger than Jordin Sparks was when she won in 2007)."
2130:
Identifying David Archuleta as "Honduran American" in opening sentence of article and Category!! reason=Dispute over whether to call him Honduran American or just American!! time= Gwynand 18:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
1181:
in any independant source. Again, the link you gave goes to TV.com but with a 404 error. The other source doesn't call him an Honduran American. The applying of these labels in the US is somewhat arbitrary.
428:
He is the second oldest of five siblings, not the oldest of four siblings. He has a sister, Claudia, who is 18 and therefore a year older. He also has a younger brother and two younger sisters.
987:
Nonsense. It goes with the same standard of other material, if it's covered in reliable sources we can use it in context. Clay Aiken's claymates has shown us that the fans can also be notable.
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I can read that now, although as a whole other issue, that is not the greatest source. I'll let others come and comment on this issue. There are many other people with such ancestry, say like
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160:
Can someone look at the reference layout please? Numbers 28 and 29 look all garbled into 27. I'm not real savvy on the Wiki formatting and don't know how to fix it correctly. --
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information the a template like the one already in place makes sense. Otherwise each article, just like each artist represented, will go on their own path - hopefully improving.
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unencyclopedic", which does not really explain the edit. Had you first posted here and then provided that edit summary it would have actually explained why you made the edit.
673:
If you mention he was runner up, then the logical question someone would ask is 'Well, who won?' so I think it's appropriate in the body of the article, but not the lead. --
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Agreed. Accordingly, I've removed a "first" that popped up in the Archuleta reference in the Cook article and will be on the look-out in case it reappears.
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Since it was already controversial to include issues of his religion (and the associated lack of relevance), with the link dead I'll delete the section. --
1435:
Nicely done. I've said before, just because it's done poorly in related articles doesn't mean we have to carry the mistake over to the ones we editĀ ;) --
179:, but I don't have time to try and fix it myself at the moment (seeing how there's been edits since), but I thought I'd point it out to whoever does. -
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This should be removed from the lead and possibly put into the American Idol section. If he wins it can be added he was the youngest winner.
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376:. "Voted" is a little more informative than "became," especially for those who aren't familiar with the show, but either seems to work.
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somewhere he is Honduran-American. Well, I give you both. Here is the third party source that identify him as an Honduran American
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is it true that david archuleta has signed with jive records as this has been noted on several sites and i think previously on here?
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Generally, YouTube is frowned upon as a source because the majority of what's on there are copyright violations. It's talked about
2048:
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Who cares what order David performed in? Unless it is shown to make some big difference that seems like something for a fansite.
687:
My objection is editors continually calling him the "first runner up". This is not Miss America. He's 2nd place or runner up. --
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This isn't the place for such questions, but he is Mormon. Actually, it should be added into the article that he is a Mormon.
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Nevermind, I've apparently fixed it as I found a clue on the wikitable talk page as to how to center the columns.
362:"Voted" works. "Became" works. But "proclaimed" (a word choice I'd seen earlier--although it might've been in the
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OK, it looks like it wasn't protected, but the semi-protect symbol was left up from the last time. I removed it.
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Obvious that it is Guitar Hero over Rock Band? They use the same guitars. I'm sure there is a source either way.
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were born. Ergo, Farnham's name rightfully belongs on the chart. But the footnote should take care of matters.--
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Agreed, if there is a category "people with Honduran ancestry" I could be swayed to include that instead.
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It just occured to me we could also use 'voted' first runner up since that is how he got his position. --
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If the article is semi-protected, how is it that people who aren't signed in are able to make edits? --
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It was here. I saw it went through a series and couldn't stand it at 'proclaimed', so out it went. --
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That's a good point... ips have been editing... I'm not sure if the protection is set up correctly.
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Issue resolved. He is Honduran American. A third party source identify him as Honduran American.
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I know that he's from Utah, and a lot of Mormons claim that he is also Mormon. Is this true?
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family and provide some good sources so those interested can read more if they choose.
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before we nit-pick it to death, unless of course everyone is happy with my choiceĀ ;) --
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PLEASE NOTE: this is the proposed table, please keep discussion in the above section
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and in this other link David himself identifies himself as being Half-Honduran.
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372:. A bazillion giggling teens (or post-teens, such as myself) on cell phones can
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Will you also add the religion to each of the other American Idol contestants?
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The commercial David appeared in was for the game Guitar Hero, not Rock Band.
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Also, it may make sense to delete the results column as we know the results.
609:. Rumors from blogs and forums do not suffice for an encyclopedia. Thanks,
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It was decided here that his male fans have been dubbed the "Dudechuletas"
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http://www.buddytv.com/articles/american-idol/profile/david-archuleta.aspx
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But I am going to ask for some semi-protection, it's been crazy recently.
193:
Thanks. I hadn't seen where it occurred. I think I have it fixed now. --
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Its obvious if you've seen the commercial that it was for Guitar Hero. --
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2222:"Fox reveals 'American Idol' Top 20 songwriting competition songs"
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and here is a source were he clearly states he is half-Honduran
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http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700226989,00.html?pg=2
2206:, the year Archuleta was born, hence being able to choose it.
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http://www.tv.com/david-archuleta/person/325960/summary.html
949:
http://www.americanidol.com/myidol/forums/topic/?tid=998623
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someone else has a better description of what he sings.
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Idol "performance" only when they get to vote for them.
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article)? Gimme a break here. The Queen of England can
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was just archived so a newer link could also be used.
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would be even more credible. Am I missing something?
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No one has posted news about such a contract from a
499:They're more than welcome to create an account.
1253:I definitely don't think this belongs in the
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2167:"Idol Chatter: A conference call with Nigel"
819:what's the religion of david archuleta????
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757:And, for an interesting counterpoint, see
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656:Talk:David_Cook (singer)#David_Archuleta
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1958:Music of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
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1776:Songs from birth year of contestants (
1179:specifically identified by those terms
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
792:Religion has been sourced in context
284:. I'll change and put the source in.
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328:Announced, Declared, Proclaimed...
122:ABC News reported that he is LDS.
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1112:That link doesn't lead anywhere.
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718:Question about Youtube Reference
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2049:Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me
233:Do you have a source for that?
1609:Waiting on the World to Change
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884:The reference link is dead. -
2074:Farnham vs. Pescetto/Foster.
1887:Songs of Andrew Lloyd Webber
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175:It has something to do with
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177:the following edits here
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2065:Written by Ryan Gillmor
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2244:Check date values in:
2216:Rocchio, Christopher (
2182:released the track in
1921:Songs of Neil Diamond
1853:Songs of Mariah Carey
1801:Songs of Dolly Parton
649:Should the fact that
214:Commercial Appearance
139:might help a little.
42:of past discussions.
2044:Contestant's Choice
1832:Inspirational Songs
18:Talk:David Archuleta
1995:Contestant's Choice
1896:Andrew Lloyd Webber
1875:Mariah Carey &
282:That wasn't so hard
2224:. Reality TV World
2190:and released as a
1997:Producers' Choice
1743:We Can Work It Out
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2053:"In This Moment"
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2226:. Retrieved
2211:
2196:David Foster
2180:John Farnham
2175:
2169:. USA Today.
2160:
2135:
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2118:Cinemaniac86
2114:
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2067:John Lennon
1931:Neil Diamond
1925:
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1863:Mariah Carey
1857:
1812:Dolly Parton
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1791:John Farnham
1768:The Beatles
1758:The Beatles
1727:Phil Collins
1683:The Miracles
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700:Cosmic Latte
689:
660:Cosmic Latte
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378:Cosmic Latte
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2188:re-arranged
2038:Clive Davis
2024:Chris Brown
1991:Paula Abdul
1976:Ben E. King
1964:Stand by Me
1903:Think of Me
1749:The Beatles
1705:John Lennon
1677:Shop Around
1661:Bryan Adams
1349:Table input
1184:Technically
952:āPreceding
857:Alanraywiki
821:āPreceding
749:Woohookitty
690:Woohookitty
611:Alanraywiki
433:āPreceding
36:This is an
2228:2008-05-20
2218:2008-04-14
2062:Elton John
2020:Billy Joel
1615:John Mayer
1437:MartinezMD
1259:Cogswobble
975:MartinezMD
973:already.--
904:MartinezMD
789:Resolved.
675:MartinezMD
651:David Cook
645:David Cook
592:Idolfan367
515:MartinezMD
505:Talk to me
486:MartinezMD
411:Talk to me
392:MartinezMD
350:MartinezMD
335:MartinezMD
195:MartinezMD
162:MartinezMD
156:References
145:Talk to me
2237:cite news
2186:; it was
2040:'s Choice
1622:Hollywood
1598:Auditions
886:WikiWes77
842:Knowitall
759:this page
71:Archive 3
65:Archive 2
59:Archive 1
2148:contribs
2084:Resolved
2042:New Song
2008:With You
1589:Song(s)
1246:Contribs
1196:Contribs
1122:Contribs
954:unsigned
823:unsigned
779:religion
634:Contribs
577:Contribs
559:Contribs
537:Contribs
468:Contribs
447:contribs
435:unsigned
424:Siblings
369:proclaim
294:Contribs
274:Contribs
243:Contribs
181:Io Katai
103:Religion
2056:Imagine
2034:Finale
1944:America
1773:Top 10
1755:Top 11
1733:Top 12
1711:Top 16
1699:Imagine
1689:Top 20
1667:Top 24
1645:Top 50
1483:Aspects
1325:Aspects
1238:Gwynand
1220:Casarch
1188:Gwynand
1155:Casarch
1114:Gwynand
1099:Casarch
1065:Gwynand
626:Gwynand
569:Gwynand
551:Gwynand
529:Gwynand
460:Gwynand
303:Sperin4
286:Gwynand
266:Gwynand
235:Gwynand
220:Sperin4
39:archive
2246:|date=
2014:Longer
1986:Top 3
1954:Top 4
1926:mentor
1917:Top 5
1892:mentor
1883:Top 6
1858:mentor
1849:Top 7
1837:Angels
1829:Top 8
1807:mentor
1797:Top 9
1655:Heaven
1586:Theme
1514:either
1163:Hess88
1135:Hess88
1020:Mjrmtg
501:Carter
407:Carter
252:Mjrmtg
141:Carter
1715:1980s
1693:1970s
1671:1960s
1633:Crazy
1583:Week
1374:Banji
1357:Banji
1081:Benji
1013:Image
16:<
2250:help
2204:1990
2184:1985
2142:talk
2092:Banj
1778:1990
1543:Banj
1521:Banj
1487:talk
1454:Banj
1441:talk
1417:Banj
1411:here
1394:talk
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1255:lead
1242:Talk
1224:talk
1192:Talk
1167:talk
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1103:talk
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1038:Banj
1024:talk
991:Banj
979:talk
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908:talk
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861:talk
846:talk
831:talk
800:Banj
767:talk
744:here
742:and
740:here
729:talk
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630:Talk
615:talk
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555:Talk
533:Talk
519:talk
490:talk
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382:talk
374:vote
364:Cook
354:talk
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270:Talk
256:talk
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224:talk
199:talk
185:talk
166:talk
137:This
128:talk
113:talk
94:talk
2220:).
2202:in
2194:by
1649:n/a
1627:n/a
1603:n/a
1406:one
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1086:boi
658:.)
109:Dan
2241::
2239:}}
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