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listed were more notable for other activities, although it is often difficult to prove this. Some on the list are notable indeed, but more for things other than chess. Peter Lee, for example, achieved more in bridge than in chess, though it requires familiarity with these activities to judge. My point, though, is that he is almost certainly more significant in his professional role than in either game. So the argument that "chess player" is more exact fails for those people who were not ever professional players. There are cases where a person's main activity was chess, but they are not best known as
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other word to convey a topic which is already obviously person is a person (e.g. by adding "player" to "American football", or to "chess") is significant and quite different from the rist/ry and tician/tics examples. That said, there would be nothing wrong with using podiatry and politics in those cases, but using the slightly longer person variants in those cases is not nearly as blatantly violating CONCISE as unnecessarily adding "player" is. --
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2046:. WP:CONCISE is not "the least amount of words", but the "least amount words it takes to make the title clear". "(chess)" should be used for topics about chess itself, such as objects and moves, while "(chess player)" should be used for individuals. Simon Webb isn't a chess object, but he is a chess player. To refute your claim about names that cannot be confused. Without knowing the topic or viewing the article, is
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2202:. The page titles are fine as they are. These people are not "chess", they are "chess players", so the current disambiguation is appropriate. This is proposed because "(chess)" is shorter than "(chess player)" and equally clear? Well it is shorter, but Knowledge is not paper, and it is definitely not equally clear. This is a solution in search of a problem.
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class provides better disambiguation than context, but fortunately there's no need here to choose. Chess player is both the class and the context. Note also that footballer, ice skater, etc. are generic classes, and I submit that alone makes them superior disambigutations and consistent with chess player.
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guide lists three ways to do parenthetical disambiguation. The first is generic class, and the generic class for Frank
Marshall is chess player, not chess. The second option given is subject or context, but chess player is just as much a context as chess is. I would submit that generally generic
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Thanks for the clarification. Indeed, I had noticed that there were some redirects out there in which "XXX (football player)" was redirected to "XXX (football)". And of course it could work the other way. If the proposer thinks it would be useful to have "Larry Evans (chess)" out there, he could
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Well, one point I would have added to the comments is that some of those listed were not really notable as players, but in other aspects of chess. R.C. Griffiths was more notable as co-originator of the MCO (Modern Chess
Openings) series, and as editor of the British Chess Magazine. Several others
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Oh please, the difference between podiatrist and podiatry is insignificant in terms of which is CONCISE. Given a (near) wash with respect to CONCISE, of course the disambiguator that means a person is preferable to the one that means the general area of their notable occupation. But adding a whole
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is the obvious CONCISE unambiguous disambiguator, just as the name of the sport is the CONCISE unambiguous disambiguator for many sports I just noted. So in terms of picking the CONCISE uambiguous disambiguator as appropriate for each sport; the way other sports handle this is actually consistent.
2789:. But the shorter disambiguations are worse, and they're worse for the same reason that chess is a worse disambiguation than chess player. Clearly CONCISE is not the ultimate rule unless you demand those disambiguations must use podiatry and politics instead of podiatrist and politician.
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I read that during World War II, British prisoner of war David
Pritchard used his chess prowess to convince his German captors that he was a spy, resulting in his transfer to a more favorable camp. Is there a reliable source that would warrant the inclusion of this interesting story?
2250:- other sports, such as baseball, basketball, and tennis, do not add the word "player" in disambiguators, and I don't see how chess should be different. The argument that people are not chess is beside the point, as no reader will confuse people with chess pieces. -
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I was thinking the same thing. Although I actually have no objection to this proposal, it seems there is no consensus for it, so once it's closed there's no reason not to turn those red links into redirects. Then anyone who wants to use the short version can do so.
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argument to be convincing in relation to disambiguation. Certainly titles and disambiguations should not be needlessly long, but I don't see it stated in any guideline that disambiguation must be as short as possible. This notion doesn't appear in
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argument you are also ignoring thousands of biographies here related to basketball, volleyball, badminton, rugby, table tennis, softball, hockey, water polo, lacrosse, .... that do not use the word "player". They have somehow managed to be clear.
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I do not want to resuscitate this long-dead conversation, but for the record, R.C. Griffith is not spelled with an "s", and in addition, he won the
British championship in 1912, so one should not say he was "not really notable" as a player.
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It will possibly be confusing so CONCISE is not obvious. Also there are many articles using "(footballer)" instead of "(football)", "(pianist)" instead of "(piano)", etc, so I disagree with the comment that "(chess player)" is inconsistent.
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This seems like a classic case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I have never had any trouble finding articles about particular chess players. But the day after this change, I won't be able to find articles that I have found
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Knowledge's convention is to use, for example, "Foo (baseball)" instead of "Foo (baseball player)", or "Foo (tennis)" instead of "Foo (tennis player)". Chess should be no different. Nobody will confuse humans with chess boards.
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because they are unnecessarily long; the “player” part in those examples, just like with “chess player”, is superfluous. “Player” would nothing to the examples I provided, and it adds nothing in these either.
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would apply. The addition of a disambiguator to a title automatically makes it inconsistent with comparable articles that don't need a disambiguator. Trying to apply
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create it as a redirect to "Larry Evans (chess player)". I can't speak for the other participants in this discussion, but I certainly would not object to that.
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Absolutely (agree). Have restructured the article so content flow makes more sense. (Next step to paraphrase and strip the excessive quotes.) But not today! ;)
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is the preferable CONCISE term in that case. Speaking of roller derby, how do you think those players are disambiguated when necessary? You guessed it:
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is not. Hopefully the closer will not count !votes but will evaluate the arguments based on how well rooted they are in policy and guidelines. --
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for now. If other sports bios have adopted a different naming convention for their articles, then it should be resolved somewhere else. --
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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I should ask, what will happen to
Wikilinks -- will somebody have to go around and fix all the Wikilinks to the above articles?
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is a chess player's name? I don't understand that "confusing" argument, and don't see any other opposing argument. Yes, just
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To address your first point, which one of these moves will make the title less clear? Secondly, if there were a player named
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The article has far too many direct quotes from other sources. These need to be rewritten to not be direct quotes.
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The old titles would remain as redirects and continue to function as they do now. No one would have to do anything.
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for him. Finally, how is "chess player" consistent with "footballer" when there is one more word? In your
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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he has written other books, one about
Mahjong, and I believe one about other board games in general.
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just above are the CONCISE way to categorize those respective players. And for chess players, just
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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2335:. Completely unnecessary and potentially confusing moves. These people are players not objects.--
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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consistent because the CONCISE disambiguation varies depending on the sport. In the case of
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dab page. So... what's your point? How is "Pritchard was not a chess" a reason to oppose? --
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is the CONCISE unambiguous disambiguator, which can be fixed with this proposal. --
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And someone has to wade through about 115 entries obeying all these move requests.
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In my opinion titles disambiguated wth “darts player” et al are in violation of
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just a small selection of articles using "(X player)" as a disambiguator, e.g.
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There is not all that much consistency in other sports. For instance, I found
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with a better naming convention used by football, which uses "(footballer)"--
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is better, as per the Ruy Lopez example above. For example, the alternative
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is a commonly used CONCISE term for association football players, while
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is the CONCISE way to disambiguate players in roller derby, just like
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is not an SNL. So what? And those are just a few examples from the
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is the CONCISE way to identify those players (there is no need for
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060207025335/http://www.bcvs.ukf.net/
507:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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The Times article that much of the article is based on is here:
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to the proposed titles at this time, per the discussion below.
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
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a human or chess-related? This should stay as is, as it's
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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2675:and other activities I mentioned in my comment to
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965:David Howell (chess player)
910:László Szabó (chess player)
273:Knowledge:WikiProject Chess
3020:
2964:WikiProject Chess articles
2949:Start-Class chess articles
2892:15:54, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
2873:07:32, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
2714:Henry Slade (rugby player)
2706:Phil Taylor (darts player)
2568:Anton Smirnov (footballer)
2515:Billy Smith (rugby league)
2304:Henry Slade (rugby player)
2296:Phil Taylor (darts player)
2290:Further to Bruce's point,
2233:. Completely unnecessary.
1997:Jacob Levin (chess player)
1920:Andrey Vovk (chess player)
1898:Jennifer Yu (chess player)
1889:John Dunlop (chess player)
1647:Paul Krüger (chess player)
1636:Brian Kelly (chess player)
1603:Paul Michel (chess player)
1570:B. Hallegua (chess player)
1559:Georg Meier (chess player)
1504:Curt Hansen (chess player)
1394:Eric Hansen (chess player)
1383:Salem Saleh (chess player)
1372:Hans Müller (chess player)
1218:Peter Wells (chess player)
1152:Igor Ivanov (chess player)
1141:Robert Hess (chess player)
1130:Daniel King (chess player)
1097:Robert Wade (chess player)
1009:Tim Harding (chess player)
998:James Mason (chess player)
954:Larry Evans (chess player)
733:(last update: 5 June 2024)
669:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
428:project's importance scale
313:project's importance scale
276:Template:WikiProject Chess
178:project's importance scale
2783:Susan Peters (politician)
2525:is not a medal of honor,
2511:Willie Smith (basketball)
1964:Ewen Green (chess player)
1958:Vladimir Georgiev (chess)
1931:Simon Webb (chess player)
1834:John Purdy (chess player)
1542:Alexander Zaitsev (chess)
1350:Ivan Šarić (chess player)
1273:Larry Parr (chess player)
1240:Ron Henley (chess player)
1119:David Levy (chess player)
1086:Ian Rogers (chess player)
1075:Chris Ward (chess player)
1069:Vladimir Malakhov (chess)
1042:Fred Yates (chess player)
926:Alejandro Ramírez (chess)
888:Henry Bird (chess player)
554:
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59:; for its talk page, see
2836:Please do not modify it.
2572:Anton Smirnov (football)
2529:is not a Boys' Brigade,
2519:Billy Smith (ice hockey)
2074:Ruy Lopez (chess player)
1980:Marmaduke Wyvill (chess)
1861:John Bartholomew (chess)
1806:Alexander Petrov (chess)
1746:Peter Lee (chess player)
1735:Anna Hahn (chess player)
1702:Ken Smith (chess player)
1680:John Owen (chess player)
1674:Aleksandr Galkin (chess)
1520:Richard Griffith (chess)
1498:Daniel Fernandez (chess)
1432:Tomasz Markowski (chess)
1339:Shen Yang (chess player)
1311:Vladimir Lazarev (chess)
992:Alexander Ivanov (chess)
981:Mikhail Gurevich (chess)
855:John Emms (chess player)
789:Please do not modify it.
694:http://www.bcvs.ukf.net/
372:This article is part of
2787:Susan Peters (politics)
2775:Lee Rogers (podiatrist)
2580:Anton Smirnov (skating)
2531:William A. Smith (Iowa)
2517:is not a rugby league,
2414:David Pritchard (chess)
2100:. I can't imagine why
1914:Elijah Williams (chess)
1883:Aleksandr Levin (chess)
1762:Artyom Timofeev (chess)
1696:Marcin Kamiński (chess)
1619:John Littlewood (chess)
1471:Wang Lei (chess player)
1465:Eugène Rousseau (chess)
1289:William Addison (chess)
1267:Ludwig Rellstab (chess)
1113:Evgeny Alekseev (chess)
943:Wang Rui (chess player)
932:Wang Hao (chess player)
899:Zhao Jun (chess player)
866:Wen Yang (chess player)
827:David Pritchard (chess)
665:External links modified
2684:Except for the use of
2521:is not an ice hockey,
2072:we can definitely use
1872:Frank Anderson (chess)
1630:Vladimir Belov (chess)
1597:Dmitry Kokarev (chess)
1553:Evgeny Romanov (chess)
1322:William Winter (chess)
1229:Wang Yu (chess player)
1190:William Watson (chess)
1168:Simon Williams (chess)
849:Frank Marshall (chess)
833:Li Chao (chess player)
618:too many direct quotes
551:
81:This article is rated
2900:Prisoner of War story
2779:Lee Rogers (podiatry)
2513:is not a basketball,
1991:John Morrison (chess)
1850:Csaba Horváth (chess)
1828:Zhang Xiaowen (chess)
1795:John Saunders (chess)
1729:Michael Rohde (chess)
1718:William Lewis (chess)
1663:Jacek Tomczak (chess)
1586:Anton Smirnov (chess)
1487:Tibor Károlyi (chess)
1454:Neil McDonald (chess)
1443:Petar Popović (chess)
1410:Albert Becker (chess)
1333:George Walker (chess)
1201:Sergey Volkov (chess)
1036:Artur Yusupov (chess)
882:Michael Adams (chess)
550:
496:WikiProject Biography
399:Board and table games
336:Board and table games
135:WikiProject Magazines
2665:Brian Baker (tennis)
2533:is not an Iowa, and
2013:Sabrina Vega (chess)
1817:Igor Novikov (chess)
1784:Ernest Klein (chess)
1773:Jiří Pelikán (chess)
1531:János Balogh (chess)
1421:Zoltán Varga (chess)
1366:James Howell (chess)
1256:Ziaur Rahman (chess)
1212:Nigel Davies (chess)
1179:James Grundy (chess)
1058:Robert Byrne (chess)
1025:Ivan Sokolov (chess)
970:David Howell (chess)
915:László Szabó (chess)
714:regular verification
47:. Its contents were
43:with a consensus to
2724:. I don't find the
2637:roller derby skater
2002:Jacob Levin (chess)
1925:Andrey Vovk (chess)
1903:Jennifer Yu (chess)
1893:John Dunlop (chess)
1652:Paul Krüger (chess)
1641:Brian Kelly (chess)
1608:Paul Michel (chess)
1575:B. Hallegua (chess)
1564:Georg Meier (chess)
1509:Curt Hansen (chess)
1399:Eric Hansen (chess)
1388:Salem Saleh (chess)
1377:Hans Müller (chess)
1223:Peter Wells (chess)
1157:Igor Ivanov (chess)
1146:Robert Hess (chess)
1135:Daniel King (chess)
1102:Robert Wade (chess)
1014:Tim Harding (chess)
1003:James Mason (chess)
959:Larry Evans (chess)
704:After February 2018
2617:American football
2274:Marta (footballer)
1969:Ewen Green (chess)
1936:Simon Webb (chess)
1839:John Purdy (chess)
1355:Ivan Šarić (chess)
1278:Larry Parr (chess)
1245:Ron Henley (chess)
1124:David Levy (chess)
1091:Ian Rogers (chess)
1080:Chris Ward (chess)
1047:Fred Yates (chess)
893:Henry Bird (chess)
758:InternetArchiveBot
709:InternetArchiveBot
552:
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87:content assessment
31:was nominated for
2653:American football
2613:American football
2535:Billy Smith (SNL)
2218:Anthony Appleyard
2108:is equally silly.
1751:Peter Lee (chess)
1740:Anna Hahn (chess)
1707:Ken Smith (chess)
1685:John Owen (chess)
1344:Shen Yang (chess)
860:John Emms (chess)
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93:WikiProjects
44:
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26:
2844:move review
2758:WP:CRITERIA
2667:; see also
2647:. Because
2459:Hrodvarsson
2102:WP:TITLECON
2025:WP:TITLECON
794:move review
598:—Preceding
592:Other books
460:Start‑class
382:board games
217:Start‑class
57:its history
2923:Categories
2773:Yeah, and
2731:WP:CONCISE
2726:WP:CONCISE
2673:ice hockey
2657:basketball
2609:footballer
2601:apparently
2409:WP:CONCISE
2392:Randy Kryn
2235:MaxBrowne2
2106:WP:CONCISE
2021:WP:CONCISE
765:Report bug
394:discussion
83:Stub-class
2840:talk page
2677:SmokeyJoe
2493:SmokeyJoe
2421:both use
2375:Gereon K.
2083:Sinobball
2070:Ruy Lopez
2048:Ruy Lopez
2030:Sinobball
803:not moved
748:this tool
741:this tool
514:Biography
451:Biography
149:Magazines
140:magazines
112:Magazines
2842:or in a
2739:WP:NCDAB
2605:football
2597:Greenman
2584:Greenman
2177:Station1
2147:Station1
2133:SubSeven
807:Dekimasu
754:Cheers.—
657:LukeSurl
600:unsigned
33:deletion
2861:players
2663:(e.g.,
2625:skating
2566:'s are
2405:Support
2356:Schwede
2316:Colin M
2248:Support
2114:before.
678:my edit
624:Bubba73
426:on the
311:on the
176:on the
2735:WP:DAB
2720:, and
2661:tennis
2619:player
2578:, not
2570:, not
2556:Oppose
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2292:behold
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2200:Oppose
2098:Oppose
2056:Gonnym
2044:Oppose
89:scale.
49:merged
2791:Quale
2744:Quale
2690:chess
2688:when
2681:chess
2639:, so
2476:RaviC
2435:chess
2423:chess
2417:and
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289:Start
270:Chess
261:Chess
214:Chess
51:into
45:merge
2911:talk
2888:talk
2869:talk
2795:talk
2781:and
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2588:talk
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2497:talk
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2396:talk
2379:talk
2341:talk
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2320:talk
2282:talk
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2034:talk
2023:and
638:talk
608:talk
503:and
384:and
185:See
61:here
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2733:or
2694:В²C
2671:),
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2543:В²C
2443:В²C
722:RfC
692:to
418:Low
303:Low
168:Low
35:.
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811:よ!
786:.
735:.
730:}}
726:{{
640:)
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454::
2909:(
2886:(
2867:(
2809:☎
2793:(
2766:☎
2761:—
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