Talk:Dartmouth College/Archive 1

3240:

Dartmouth, it's not that 1% of sources say that it wasn't founded in 1799 - it's that there aren't many reliable sources which actually talk about the founding date at all, and those that do are generally Dartmouth-related (I agree that citing The D's website for that fact is definitely inappropriate). I tried searching around a lot, and couldn't actually find any decently reputable sites that aren't owned by Dartmouth and didn't just copy The D's "about us" page which talk about the founding date of the paper at all. The sites that are out there include a lot of Ivy League blogs, but I don't think blogs count as reputable/verifiable here. And Knowledge should be an encyclopedia of facts, not of just what the masses say is right. Just like with the huge debate with the translation of the motto on this page, the article should reflect a true translation, but still talk about how Dartmouth officially translates it (which is technically wrong). --

814:

the mascot of Dartmouth College. Keggy was conceived partially out of the student body’s growing disgust by the ever increasing ineptitude of the current college administration and it’s over zealous attempts to ban and censor anything and everything that could possibly offend anyone. Keggy is by no means a “one time only joke.” He made his debut at the homecoming football game of ’03 and since has attended almost every football game and most hockey games. Students all over campus can be seen sporting the attractive Keggy T-shirts which depict the lovable fellow drinking from his own tap and have the words “Get Pumped,” and “Go Kegs” written on them. Further evidence of Keggy’s legitimacy can be seen by that fact that snow sculpture for the most recent Dartmouth Winter Carnival (’05) was an enormous pirate ship which was christened “Captain Keggy’s Carnival Cruiser” by the student assembly based on a vote of the student body.

2023:). I'm a current student, and there are many more examples of this inconsistency in several of the physical buildings around campus, as well. However, the Latin motto is always given as "vox clamantis in deserto". And, Nrrinard, pointing to the King James Bible won't help either, because the phrase "vox clamantis in deserto" appears in more than one place, and the KJB translates it differently in different places. Isaiah 40:3 is probably the most commonly cited source passages, but it reads "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness"). However, Matthew 3:3, Mark 1:3, Luke 3:4, and John 1:23 all use the phrase, and read "The voice of one crying in the wilderness". So if we all "go to Dartmouth and ask what the motto is", you'll get different answers from different administrators (yes, *administrators* - I am not talking about profs, who I agree can get very fickle about these things). -- 1976:

the motto. It is certainly an interesting footnote that the two versions of the motto don't translate perfectly conventionally grammatically, but that doesn't change the fact that the English version of the motto is "A voice crying out in the wilderness". In fact it is totally silly to claim otherwise, because it's not true: we can all go to Dartmouth and ask what the motto is, and if the answer comes in English, it will never come as "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness"; and any professor which says so is merely being snippy. Let me draw a parallel to the King James Bible, which contains quite a large number of bad translations: when we quote the KJV in an article, it would be totally outlandish to "fix" any mistranslations; quite the contrary, the appropriate action is to put a a with a footnote.

388:

of Dartmouth administration to build dormitories? A shortage of rental housing in this relatively small town? Apparently in 1999 or thereabouts there was very serious talk by the Dartmouth administration of abolishing single-sex living groups; I can't seem to find out exactly what the upshot was. Maybe we have an article on fraternities and sororities in general that touches on this. Do I understand correctly that there is a Dartmouth tradition that fraternity parties are open to all? Does this mean that any old stranger (e.g. F. Scott Fitzgerald) can just wander in and drink free booze? This all seems like an interesting, controversial, and legitimate topic that is more-or-less specific to Dartmouth. ] 12:16, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

3079:(2) The old saw about The Dartmouth being the oldest college paper and all. This claim is false and, more importantly, is completely unverifiable. A citation to the paper's own website, which mentions (without any evidence) that the paper was founded in 1799 is not enough to justify putting this claim in this article. The Dartmouth was neither founded in 1799 nor descended from any paper founded in 1799. The Dartmouth was founded in 1867, as the current volume number indicates, and may charitably be thought of as a revival of an earlier paper begun in 1839, although any connection beyond the name is doubtful. Look in the library catalog under LH1.D3 D2, which lists Vol. 1, no. 1 as Nov. 1839. -- 3720:"Prior to this period, the College was 'little more than a finishing school,' relatively unknown, and poorly funded" says the article. The only source for the quotation is an undergraduate-written article in the Dartmouth Review. That source is not sufficiently reliable to support this (mis-)characterization of Dartmouth during the nineteenth century. Although everyone agrees that the college did decline during the middle of the period, the characterization as a "finishing school" really is uncommon or even unique to the Review. This is not a widely-used or accurate description, in other words. Isn't a "finishing school" typically a component of women's education anyway? 3504:

simultaneously. On another note, I just browsed around the Dartmouth web site a bit, and they've really buried information about year-round-operation. I found nothing at all about it. It almost seems as if they're embarassed by it and don't want prospective students to know about it! Back in my day (class of '82), it was something they actively promoted as an advantage over other schools. Another thing of note: when the D-Plan was introduced, the graduation requirement was 33 credits, so 11 terms at a three course load. That would have been a reduction from 36 credits on the trimester system. Now the requirement is 35 credits.

233:

time was it anything like the various colleges founded in the 19th century by various organized churches and run by them — but it was certainly de facto Puritan; and then Congregationalist; and then, gradually, nothing at all. I doubt that we could pick any one date. In some sense, it never had a formal affiliation with the Congregational church (and I doubt whether it ever had any religious test for entry, even in the early theocratic days); in another sense, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that, to this day, a Congregationalist minister is always hired to run the college chapel, for the sake of tradition.

1559:

When I was a classics student at Dartmouth, professors pointed out that the College's translation of the motto was grammatically incorrect. A decision should be made here on whether we should use a correct translation or the accepted, but incorrect translation. My only problem with the traditional translation is that it is grammatically incorrect and may make us look foolish to those who are not members of the Dartmouth community. Maybe this is a good question for the "Vox in the Box" section in the Alumni Magazine -- why is Dartmouth's motto translated incorrectly by the College?

3076:(1) The caption for the Dartmouth Hall photo said it was the oldest building on campus, which is demonstrably false. The building was begun in 1904 and completed in 1906 and thus is younger than all of its neighbors. Read the plaques beside the doors or check the years in the three gables -- one gable gives the date of the original Dartmouth Hall, which was a wooden building that burned in 1904; another gives the date of this building, which is the replacement; and the third gives the date when this building was completely gutted and rebuilt inside after another fire. 1264:

University. Dartmouth can not ever hope to compete in terms of prestige, grant money, faculty or graduate students with the major research universities. It is an undergraduate college with a small number of modestly sized graduate and professional departments, and the primary mission has always been and remains the teaching of undergraduates. It can and does compete very favorably with any other institution in that mission, and tens of thousands of alumni are adamant about the name reflecting that fact.

2073:

gradauted from there in 1814. Stevens was one of the House Managers in the impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson. He is, leaving aside the obvious bias of D.W. Griffith, aptly depicted in his epic silent film, Birth of a Nation, declaring on the floor of the new House chamber, "Carthage Must Be Destroyed!" Stevens lived openly with a colored woman in the District of Columbia and despised slavery. He represented a district in Pennsylvania that was a venue of the Civil War.

873:

similarly compare Dartmouth to MIT, Amherst, Brown, etc. Comparaisons with other schools on such statistics are not appropriate for the lead paragraph of an article on Dartmouth. If anyone wants to make another section on "measures of superiority" or whatever, fine, but at least source the stats and avoid irrelevant information (like the concentration of IR majors at Georgetown, music majors at Oberlin, sports marketing majors at springfield community college, etc)

1782:

over to Reed Hall (that white building in Dartmouth Row southwest of Dartmouth Hall and Thornton Hall), walk up to the third floor, and find a classics professor. Ask him or her how to translate the college motto, and then join the discussion. Please do not just change the motto. The folks in Parkhust are wrong about the motto. If we could just freely translate as we pleased, maybe "the voice of someone screaming in a wasteland" would be just as appropriate.

31: 1370:

revolution. The school has been in the forefront of technological change ever since, with one of the first e-mail programs and an early campus computer network. Dartmouth was also the first Ivy to install Wi-Fi on campus. The school offers free software to students so they can turn their laptops into telephones using the school's Wi-Fi—a good thing, because regular cell-phone service on the rural campus can be spotty.

2915: 1592:

translation. Do you think that when Fitzgerald translated the Odyssey he made sure that he literally translated every optative case in the original Greek, with a view towards preserving the grammar? Or did he push some things around to keep the sense, and yet make the text better in English? We speak with a much different rhythm and pace than the Ancients and when translating we can respect that.--

3423:

renamed DDS. The first Collis Center addition, of the late 1970s, renamed "Commons" for some reason as "Collis Commonground" and put in various mezzanines. The second Collis Center addition of the early 1990s renamed the whole of College Hall as the Collis Center and generally restored Commonground to its original appearance, although without changing the name back.

1579:

short, why do we not take as an assumption that the English motto is "A voice crying out in the wilderness", and then translate this into Latin properly, and then we declare in Knowledge that that is Dartmouth College's correct Latin motto? Since English is the working language of the College, isn't it more important to get the sense of the English motto correct?

2011:). I am not sure exactly when, but the College did not start even giving an English translation until the mid to late-1800s. As far as I know, there has been no Trustee vote on an English translation. Also, the College's English translation has frequently changed and is even inconsistent in several places (three examples, all on the main College webpages: 432:

ask for Dartmouth IDs, but a lot of the time there's not even anyone at the door. As a matter of what they SAY, then they probably wouldn't allow just anyone in; but as a matter of practice, people turn a blind eye to most of it, if not welcome them. It adds a certain flair to the night to have a forty year old (alum or not) join in a game of beer pong.

1631:

less overtly religious connotations. "A voice" can be more freely interpreted as the voice of the college, where as "the voice of one" (especially in the context of the seal) more easily implies the voice of God. So for a college still trying to shed some of its religious roots, this reinterpretation of the motto should be allowed.--

828:

2003, Dartmouth events have been attended by Keggy the Keg, a subversive and unofficial mascot, invented by the campus humor magazine and beloved by students, though denied by officials?" Or if Keggy is truly significant, perhaps a short paragraph or section in the Student Life section. Be sure to maintain a neutral point of view.

3340:

former days found itself hard pressed to maintain a foothold in the maelstrom of campus life. The tottering paper was forced out of existence after its first five years of publication, but was revived in 1867.” I think 1839 would be acceptable, although the 1844-1867 gap is a pretty big one across which to claim continuity. --

2104:, which mentions at the end the charges to befall Theta Delt and Zete). I realize that this is in the news right now, but it doesn't seem worthy of full, paragraph-length inclusion on the article for the entire College -- this is unlikely to become a particularly memorable event in its 240-year history. I'd say it 1484:, and it was agreed to use the correct Latin translation of "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness". What are everyone else's opinions about what the English translation of the school motto should read as? I've copied a response that was given on the archive page by the most recent reverter below. -- 358:--I think it's clear. "The Earl" might be presumed to refer to the Earl at the time, since there have been Earls since 1711. Incidentally, it was William Heneage Legge, the 6th Earl. --The point of noting that Churchill was a New Hampshire (USA) legislator is to clarify that he was not "the" Churchill. 381:. Any discussion of this should, of course, be properly NPOVed and accompanied by statements that I have not bothered to locate but which I am sure exist, in which the Dartmouth fraternity system doubtless says that it is not like that now and was not really like that then... ] 20:51, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC) 3363:

I've placed a fact tag on the claim that the seal was carved into woodwork in Commons in 1901. First of all, what is Commons? As an '82 on the five year plan, I had plenty of opportunity to encounter a place called "Commons", but it's unfamiliar to me and I don't think my memory is really that bad.

1729:

I completely agree with you, and I think that a correct, literal translation should be the one used, but I don't see how to keep people who don't know Latin from changing it to the incorrect translation. I have two degrees in Greek and Latin, one from Dartmouth, so I'm fully aware of the translation

872:

I just deleted AaronS's edits in which he claims that a disproportionately large proportion of Dartmouth alums go into businees as opposed to politics. As "proof" he gives an unsourced percentage and compares this with the high percentage of international relations majors at Georgetown. He goes on to

431:

The parties are definitely open. There are some houses that are more exclusive than others, but if you have any idea what you're doing, you can waltz into a house any night of the week and get free booze. If there's an actual party, far more often than not it'll be entirely open. Sometimes they'll

387:

it is surprising to me that none of the Dartmouth folks wrote an article about the background and history of Dartmouth "Greek" life in general. It seems that fraternities are more important at Dartmouth than at other Ivy League schools; I wonder why? Were there other-than-social-factors? A reluctance

232:

Dartmouth certainly predates the existence of the organization called the Congregational church; but when it was founded, it was certainly part and parcel of the whole New England puritan establishment, which over the course of time became the Congregational Church (today merged in the UCC). So at no

155:

I am a current Dartmouth student, and I recently completed a survey of Dartmouth undergraduates on their political/economic and social ideologies. 33% of Dartmouth undergrads are political/economic conservatives, while 25% are social conservatives. And the survey met all the standards of accuracy and

1975:

as in English. The version on the official seal may be in Latin, but that translation does not in any way clearly stand above the English translation. If the article is written in English, which of course it is, then when the motto is given in English, it is appropriate to use the English version of

1792:

Maybe I'm missing something in the article or the discussion, but since there seems to be more than a little controversy here, can't the article briefly mention the discrepancy? Like, in the history section where it states the motto, perhaps a parenthetical note that "the official translation is X,

1700:

motto? I presume it is the Latin (that, after all, is what is shown on its arms), and IMO the English should reflect that. If the college's English "translation" actually says something different, the article may mention the fact, but it shouldn't restrict our right to render it accurately, if it is

1403:

So, I found the "Most Enduring Institutions" report on the Booz Allen Hamilton website and created a refernce in the first paragraph to it, but I'm not exactly sure how to cite the report in the "References" section at the bottom of the page. Can someone more familiar with Wiki than me help me out?

1263:

The name is not just a matter of tradition. I'd call it a "matter of tradition and mission". It's a matter of reality, and of the fact that the alumni as a whole would have the head on a platter of any administrator who seriously suggested changing the official name of the institution to Dartmouth

813:

The other day, I listed "Keggy the Keg" as our (Dartmouth's) mascot and provided a link for him. Somebody named dpdsmith took it down and claimed that it was a "one time only joke mascot created by a campus humor magazine." While Keggy the Keg was created by Dartmouth's humor magazine, he is in fact

794:

We came out here with our son, Michael, who was then just eighteen. He had been due to go to college that year, but we decided that he could have a year out with us before he started at Dartmouth. That's a very good college in America, Mma. Some of our colleges are not very good at all, but that one

102:

I'm a Dartmouth student (class of 2008), feel free to e-mail me (go to my user page and 'Email this user') with any questions about interviews, general Dartmouth stuffs, etc. However, the talk page on Knowledge here is not the forum to ask. I reverted the garbage that other users have put on here in

3738:

First of all, in my experience, student publications (daily newspapers and other serious productions) are generally accepted as reliable sources. In this context, it seems to me that "finishing school" is merely an editorial summation of the next two more specific descriptions: "relatively unknown"

3462:

Three-Three Schedule. Dartmouth's most dazzling innovations are for undergraduates, who now come from all 50 states and 30 foreign countries, are 75% public school products, and generally fit Admissions Director Edward Chamberlain Jr.'s edict: "It's not how well-rounded they are; it's the length of

3308:

Amen, Smith. We should be able to find an accurate founding date to corroborate the volume number of the newspaper (which indicates its founding in the 1860s). The opening editorial of the first issue (in the 1860s) speaks of the newspaper as a new venture and does not mention a non-college paper

2864:

This article never introduces the Green as being a central part of campus, both physically and otherwise. (the article does refer to it, however, such as when discussing snow sculptures built on the Green). I think it should be somewhere near the top of the article, if not in the opening section. I

2330:

and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a

2181:

what college this student attended, well, it's likely that these sloppy reporters would have paid more attention and got it right. I betcha a nickel that the erroneous stories just say "Dartmouth" and not "Dartmouth College." (It would be funny if one of them said "Dartmouth University," though...)

2052:

I accept the majority opinion that the motto should be rendered as a literal translation from the Latin, but I added a note to the paragraph explaining the controversy. I simply noted that the more popular translation, the one to which the Latin linguists object, translates not only the text of the

1630:

I agree that we should use both the Latin and English mottos put forth by the college itself. The motto is that of the college after all. Presumably the college interprets it as "a voice crying out in the wilderness" rather than "the voice of one crying out in the wilderness" because the former has

3468:

So, Dartmouth had a quarter system in 1962? I always thought coeducation in 1972 to be the progenitor of the quarter-system and the D-Plan. I imagine that the formal D-plan with sophomore summer and all does date from the '70s, but I figured that prior to that, it was out-and-out semesters. Anyone

3158:

The notion that continuity depends on name is preposterous. An institution which flourishes for 400 years with a name change in the middle has still had 400 years' continuity if its history is unbroken. On the other hand, an insitution which revives the name of a 400-year-old insitution but cannot

2843:

Weren't the colonies "free and independent states" after leaving Britain and before joining the US under the Constitution? Maybe not in the sense of tThe Vermont Republic/New Connecticut, I suppose. The VR really did claim territory east of the river, including Dresden. New Hampshire eventually

2700:

I've almost given up on recruiting pictures (I'd do it, but have no camera/lack skill). The article gets a bit dry after the cluster of pics on the History section; if anyone can add campus images to the rest of the article, it would add to it greatly. The Dartmouth Hall image could also use some

2331:

week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project

1578:

It's the "official" translation, and this should count for something. Moreover, even under the assumption that the motto is incorrectly translated, why change the official English motto? Why not change the Latin to fit the sense of the words in English that the College wants its motto to be? In

1502:

Dartmouth College translates it as "A voice crying in the wilderness," so to ensure consistency, we should keep it as "A voice crying in the wilderness." Similarly, UPenn translates its motto as "Laws without morals are useless," not as it is sometimes corrected, "Laws without morals are in vain."

1388:

I'm a student at Dartmouth right now, and that comment about how Dartmouth students most identify with their clusters is nonsense. No one goes around saying "I'm a Gold Coaster." The only possible exceptions are the River, East Wheelock, and the Choates, but that sentence should still be changed

1248:

I think the paragraph should be removed and reverted to "For reasons of tradition the institution as a whole is named "Dartmouth College" and not "Dartmouth University." That's all that needs to be said about it in the opening paragraph, anyway. Interesting details on the case etc. can be added to

672:

2813:

Is there any institution of higher learning in the US whose campus (staying in one place) has been a part of more countries than Dartmouth? I count four: Great Britain (of which NH was a colony), the State of New Hampshire (independent, as all the colonies were, post-Revolution), the Republic of

2169:

There are many cases of similarly-named institutions of higher learning, and frankly, I think some of what is done in the name of disambiguation is done simply to call attention to the variation in fame of the pair of institutions. There's been a bit of a slow-motion revert war as to whether it's

2165:

If internet media organizations mistook UMass Dartmouth for Dartmouth College, well, that was inexcusably slipshod work on their part and I don't think any amount of Knowledge disambiguation would help. The names really aren't that similar, especially not if you use the formal name "University of

1781:

The official College motto is "vox clamantis in deserto," which is literally translated as "the voice of one crying in the wilderness" by everyone literate in Latin, including the faculty of the Dartmouth Classics Department. If you feel that this is incorrect although you don't know Latin, walk

1612:

Thanks for your input. My objection to this is that the Latin phrase is on the College seal, and it can't be changed. I think we should go ahead and use the official English translation used by the College, with some kind of note indicating that it is a free or non-literal translation. I'll go

1558:

I looked at the edit history, and I suspect that an anonymous Dartmouth student or employee who doesn't know any Latin keeps reverting the motto. "A voice crying out in the wilderness" is widespread, but incorrect. "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness" is correct, but not widespread.

1080:

Hi. As is explained above, over the last few years the wikipedia has seen a lot of small, arguably non-notable articles on facets of Dartmouth life. Most of them get VfD'd and their content gets merged into this page. This has led to a Dartmouth College page full of a gazillion little sections on

827:

says plainly that the athletic teams' nickname is "Big Green" and that currently Dartmouth athletic teams have no "tangible mascot, symbol or nickname." Two possibilities: a very brief mention after the sentence "The teams' former mascot, the Dartmouth Indian, no longer is used." How about "Since

392:

Regarding parties being open... As a resident of the area, it's been my experience that most of the Fraternity parties are quite open, and they expect at a lot of students that aren't fraternity members to join in the fun. Heck, I'm been to a few parties at Dartmouth Frats, and I've never been a

3479:

1972 and coeducation brought about *year-round operation* - prior to that (I don't know for how long), there was a trimester system with fall, winter, and spring terms, and you were required to attend all three terms. The early 70s brought about 4 quarters and the D-plan system of choosing which

3422:

College Hall was built in 1901. The rear wooden portion was originally known as Commons ("Her sparkling noons, the crowding into Commons. The long white afternoons, the twilight glow") and contained an official eating club called the Dartmouth Dining Association, an organization since moved and

2610:

I just added the proof of "pioneering" VoIP and other technologies in the Tech section. However, the article text is getting increasingly cumbersome to sift thorough, it's be great if someone can place applicable pictures in this article, especially considering its length. The "featured article"

1084:

It seems to me that this is getting out of hand and this page is getting hard to use because of it. There should be a happy medium: each club doesn't warrant its own page, but the Dartmouth College article shouldn't be burdened with so many little largely unconnected nuggets. A deletionist might

817:

While Keggy may not be recognized as the official mascot by perversely politically correct and out-of-touch-with-reality administrators, Keggy instantly reached iconic status at his first homecoming game, and has since found a permanent place in the hearts of the sons and daughters of Dartmouth.

3339:

Changed founding date to 1867 per current volume number and historical information (provided by the paper itself) in the 1928 aegis: “Humbly founded in 1839, in a period during which campus publications of questionable character were mushrooming and withering almost every day, The Dartmouth of

3093:

is an excellent database of the history of every building on campus (and every bit of info in there seems to cross-check with other sources). Yes, Dartmouth Hall burnt down in 1904 ... but that original building was, in fact, the first building on campus, built in 1784. The previous wording was

2072:

Anyone who has concluded that Dartmouth, based on its noterieity for "neo conservatist" cynicism and hooliganism in the 1980s and 1990s as with attacks on those protesting against Apartheid, should not lose sight of the fact that Thaddeus Stevens , the great abolitionist and Radical Republican,

1369:

Dartmouth's first computer was so expensive that only faculty and administrators were allowed to use it. But Profs. John Kemeny and Thomas Kurtz understood that computers were tools for everyone. Forty years ago they created the computer language BASIC, which helped hasten the personal-computer

665:

Still - see the Ivy League discussion, Dartmouth and Princeton are considered to put out the finest undergraduate educations in the Ivies, with Yale or even Harvard in the mix for inherited prestige or connection to their excellent graduate schools. Dartmouth is only Ivy school to spend fortune

3239:

Dylan, I'm basically on your side, but I actually think I disagree with you on a lot of this. For the Dartmouth Hall caption - it was just plain old wrong the way it was originally written ("Dartmouth Hall, the oldest building on campus"). That was right to be corrected, I believe. And for The

3159:

trace any continuity of history is newborn, not 400-years old. Whether the Darmouth has been continuously published since 1799 does NOT depend on trivial name changes; it does depend on a close examination of the history to make sure it wasn't refounded from scratch (with an old name) in 1839.

2432:

for the full list. However, there's nothing in place (i.e. no consensus) that determined who the few are presented on this page, and the result is that people are constantly adding or removing people that they don't feel fit the bill. What I'd like to do is establish here a consensus on which

1947:

My main concern is that an incorrect translation of the motto gives the impression that we members of the Dartmouth community are a bunch of dumbasses. Perhaps we need the advice of an expert on the matter. I'm considering contacting the administration and the Classics Department for advice.

1591:

The difference between the two translations isn't really that big at all. When one says "a voice cries out", it's sort of implicit in the sense that the voice of a person, or the voice of one, is crying out. If we're thinking of this poetically and not literally, this seems like a reasonable

2960:

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as

404:

I thought they were only open part of the year. I've been to Dartmouth a few times, and one time in particular I seem to remember the frats being closed to non-members, the reason given being related to the time of the year. Then again, that might have been because there weren't supposed to

3125:

college newspaper. The discontinuity is that it was called the Dartmouth Gazette from 1799 to at least 1819, and there are a couple other names in between. I'm going to check out the book "The History of Dartmouth College" by Baxter Perry Smith, which seems to have the history of the College

1704:(BTW, it's worth pointing out that Osprey is mistaken in thinking that "the voice of one" (in the Biblical source) implies "the voice of God": In Matthew, Mark, Luke and John it refers to John the Baptist, while in Isaiah it is a non-specific but, from the context, clearly non-divine voice.) 1676:

I've just come across this article for the first time, and before I'd read a single word of the main text my eye was drawn, as by a magnet, to the Latin motto and its (mis)translation. My immediate thought was "How can they claim to be a serious educational establishment when they can't even

148:

This is absurd - the student body, like any northeastern liberal arts school, is painfully liberally biased. The only difference is that Dartmouth as a vocal and nearly violent conservative minority and a desire throughout by most to be seen as "moderate." The idea that the student body is

651:

66.245.86.251's comment that "Cornell is a member of the ivy league and they are not prestigious" is ridiculous. If Cornell does not have prestige, what they have will do until the real thing comes along. I don't want to get into debates over whether Cornell is more or less prestigious than

599:

The motto isn't the English phrase, or the Bible's Greek original, or the abstract Biblical concept. The motto is the Latin phrase "Vox clamantis in deserto"; that's what we're translating. (Of course there are multiple ways of doing this; options 1, 2, 5, & 8 above are all acceptable.)

1831:

as I fail to catch the important difference in meaning between "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness" and "A voice crying in the wilderness." The King James translators apparently thought it was "The voice of one crying in the wilderness" which seems to split the difference. Motto

3503:

Unfortunately the full text is in a pay site. I didn't realize/remember that Dartmouth had a trimester system before the Dartmouth Plan, but it makes sense. It would have been very, very difficult to transition from semesters into both trimester-length courses and year-round operation

3364:

So second question is: if it was around in 1901 but was defunct by 1978, is it really relevant to mention in this article? Or, if my memory really is that bad, surely we need a citation that establishes the existence of this place and the fact that the seal was carved there in 1901.

1582:

Although precise arguments can be made as to whether or not something should be translated depending on the case it was in Latin, let me point out that translation is an inexact science and it's completely legitimate to change the sense of grammar to fit meaning better. For example,

1574:

As a complete outsider to this discussion who just stumbled onto this (albeit one who studied the classical languages in his youth and would still if he had the time), my 2 cents are: It's probably best to stick with the official translation given by the College, for these reasons:

938:

I wouldn’t trade my chance to attend Dartmouth for anything, for I’ve discovered that students are privy to the best undergraduate experience in the nation while attending the College on the Hill. Unlike so many other institutions these days—the College experience at Dartmouth is

3679:

Actually, Occom did not become an ordained minister until 1759, a delay that has been blamed on Wheelock. And Occom was a Mohegon from Connecticut who went to preach to the Montauks on Long Island, people who were not "his people" unless you consider all Indians "his people."

1587:

is most properly translated as "To see is to believe", but since this sounds so archaic it's much better in modern English to translate this to "Seeing is believing". Being straightjacketed by the complex grammatical structures of a language dead these 1500 years may not be a

2287:

The reason why I bring this up here is because I proposed this move several days ago, and still no one has weighed in. I'm guessing that the Jacko's Knowledge article isn't well-traveled enough to bring in a lot of commentators on this issue. If you could read the proposal at

149:"conservative" or "slightly left of center" is simply a misrepresentation. This place would make the most tried and true liberals proud - it's just perhaps a little more tolerant of conservatism than somewhere else might be due to certain undercurrents of the campus. 622:

I've (again) removed the phrase "regarded as one of the most prestigous colleges in the world" from the lead paragraph. I suspect the anon is trolling, but, for what it's worth, if the statement comes back in that wording I'm going to slap an NPOV notice on the page.

3130:. Regardless, I believe it is still the oldest college newspaper in the USA, as the next verifiably oldest I can find is the Brown Daily Herald, from 1866. The Miami Student of Miami University in Ohio claims oldest at 1826, but I can't find anything besides for 1677:

translate their own motto?" – and was all set to change it, before (thankfully) thinking to look at the talk page first. Brian's solution is sort of OK, but the fact remains that there is a real difference in meaning between "vox clamantis" and "vox clamans"

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of these statements resting solely on the authority of the contributor. I think they should be backed up with good source citation... a quotation from the school's catalog or admissions department or some well-known guide to colleges, or something like that.

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frat parties at that time of the year. In any case, since we aren't supposed to be doing original research, I'm not sure how being a Dartmouth student is going to help you write any of this. Anything added should be documented in other sources first anyway.

3607:

Homecoming was this weekend, and they open up Baker Library's bell tower for it, and so I went up and snapped some photos. It was hard to get a concrete subject (i.e. rather than randomly picturing a slice of campus), but here are some of the better ones:

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generally called "The Rock," not "Rocky," as earlier revisions stated. (The original source for the "Rocky" nickname was the original article, contributed during a Dartmouth CS class exercise and hence presumably the work of a Dartmouth student).

1131:

I saw your comment, thought it sounded reasonable, sort of wanted to wait for Peter Wayner's 2005 class exercise to finish before getting into it. The Dartmouth article is now 46K so some kind of breakout is reasonable. I might have preferred a

377:, Dartmouth '62, as a screenwriter. The movie was adapted from a series of stories he contributed to the National Lampoon which concerned an outlaw fraternity. Miller has said that the stories were very loosely based on his experiences in 1279:

sentence that explains the name. The rich details can go later in the article. And I'll bet there are institutions smaller and less comprehensive than Dartmouth that call themselves "universities" although I can't think of one offhand...

3499:

I can confirm 1972 as the start of the Dartmouth Plan from memory, but better still: here's a link to a news article in the Portsmouth Herald, dated 1972, confirming that the Dartmouth Plan/year-round operation was "new" at that time.

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their radii we're interested in." To stretch radii, Dartmouth has pioneered a "three-three" schedule—a three-term academic year with only three courses per term. Since the goal is to probe subjects more deeply, the work is a lot harder.

3213:

The other point is that continuity or not, both are considered by Dartmouth College (per its own website) to still be the oldest of each category. I highly doubt Dartmouth College is unaware that Dartmouth Hall once burned down or that

3391:, with the consensus being to merge the content here rather than to delete it. It's not that it's bad research or anything, it just kind of weighs down the article with a topic that's really tangential to an article about the College. 1344:

I would suggest either placing a "Technology" as subhead under "Student Life" or creating its own subhead. Since Dartmouth is known for being ahead of the curve when it comes to intergrating new technology into campus life. For

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Oh, I was just aware that at one time it had a religious affiliation because some famous person (whose name escapes me at the moment) jokingly blamed his dismissal from the university on his skipping mandatory religious services.

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or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Knowledge project.

1913:

Oh, you're suggesting that "cry" by itself means "weep," and you need to say "cry out" to make it clear that the meaning is declaiming or shouting? But AHD4 says: 1. To sob or shed tears because of grief, sorrow, or pain; weep.

943:. Professors teach every class and generally treat students like royalty. Sure, Dartmouth has a few graduate students, but they skitter about on the edge of campus, while everything important to undergrads surrounds the Green. 212:

When did it officially stop being Congregational? ] 00:33, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC) Hmmm... the 1911 Britannica says "It is Congregational in its affiliations, but is actually non-sectarian." Whatever that means. ] 00:35, 24 Aug 2004

2006:

I would agree with you *if* both the Latin and English mottos appeared at the same time and both were official. However, this is not the case. The Latin motto came into existence of 1773, after Trustees voted on it (reference

822:

Well, if Keggy the Keg is an important facet of student culture, put something appropriate the text of the article, being sure to include an accurate statement of Keggy's unofficial status. But keep it out of the summary box.

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They are set in Gaborone, Botswana and feature an engaging, vaguely-Miss-Marple-like self-taught detective named Precious Ramotswe. In the novel, an American client comes to Mma. Ramotswe, and, in describing her problem says:

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argue for paring all that info out of the wikipedia altogether; but it seems much more friendly, respectful, and ultimately useful to simply spin it off elsewhere. To hold all this information, why not create these subpages:

1757:

My proposal: accompany the Latin phrase with a good translation; and then use a footnote at the bottom of the infobox to state that "The college tends to use a more informal translation: "a voice crying in the wilderness."

934:

I publish college guidebooks for over 200 universities in the U.S. From my research I have found that the students at Dartmouth sense a blatant emphasis on undergraduate education. Here is a quote from a student there...

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The statement "regarded as one of the most prestigious colleges in the world" is vacuously true if you are sufficiently vague about the phrase "one of," but I think that by most standards that's overstated boosterism.

1529:

It is true that Dartmouth now appears to be using "A voice crying out in the wilderness" more often than the correct translation. One of the pages that was cited on the previous discussion has changed its translation:

953:-- A "blatant" emphasis? A Dartmouth student might say that the typical university has a blatant emphasis on graduate studies and research, giving short shrift to the true objects of an educational institution. 3655: 2227:

You never mentioned in the article that Theodore Geisel, otherwise known as Dr. Suess, went to this college. As of the year 2004, there were school sports teams named after a myriad of Dr. Suess charecters.

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Collis Center was built in the late 1970s, so 1901's not possible. OTOH, Collis was built as an extension of the building to it's left (College Hall? Been a long time...), which probably dates back long

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important for Boston College and Boston University each to explain that they aren't the other. (Nobody seems to be fussing about all the different St. John's Colleges and St. John's Universities, though).

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Dartmouth. But I'll venture that a) Cornell is less prestigious than Harvard and more prestigious than Brown, and that b) Dartmouth, too, is less prestigious than Harvard and more prestigious than Brown.

2879:

I think there ought to be a page on the campus/college's land owning in general (the second college grant, architectural guidelines set by the trustees, relations with Hanover, etc. could all go here).

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I changed the translation of the motto to the more literal, "the voice of one crying out in the wilderness." "Clamantis" is clearly a genitive, not a nominative. It does not agree in case with "vox."

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Dartmouth has plenty of notable alumni, but we only have a few listed on this page, which I think is a good setup: it gives the reader a taste of some of the most notable ones, and then lets you go to

2137:

Please consider the so-called "Little Red Book Hoax" and the fact that many internet media organizations mistook Dartmouth College for UMass Dartmouth, the school where the event actually took place.

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Vermont (Hanover's Dresden district switched over in the 1770s) and the U.S. Baylor barely makes three (Texas for a few months in 1845, the US, and the CSA). Does this have any relevance at all? --

468:

Please, can some "wired" DC fellow figure out how to merge those articles, like the two swimming ones that are now cleaned up, and how to capitalize the title "C" in college on one of them? Thanks.

1730:

issues and the Biblical origins of the motto. As far as I know, the motto is not translated on any College seal. It's written in Latin on the original College seal as "VOX CLAMANTIS IN DESERTO."

1334:) -- and it's a remarkably important part of the College culture. Currently, there aren't any areas into which a paragraph on Blitz would easily fit -- any ideas for other how to work it in? 716:" But the remainder of the story sounds more like a proposal, a joke, an invention, or a legend, and that I doubt whether the Rockefellers actually would have officially changed their mind. 3582: 704:

This is interesting if true, but needs attribution/citation. Anyone wishing to reinsert it: please provide some verifiable source for this information. And please provide evidence that it

145:

Actually, they are slightly left of center, which puts them firmly in camp of Churchill and Reagan compared to the Trotskies and Lenins of Brown and Yale (and the Gorbachevs of Harvard!).

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terms you wanted to be on during. I have some books checked out that I'm sure have info that can be cited on this - poke me if you want some hard facts for any of the articles on here. --

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For the article to maintain its GA status, the logos need detailed fair use rationales. Look to other passed GA/FAs for examples. Let me know on my talk page if you have any questions. --

2957:

is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

1006:

This year's assignment is apparently due tomorrow, and we will probably see a few articles on trivial aspects of Dartmouth student life. I hope everyone will be courteous to our guests.

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The only time frats are "closed" are really only when they have meetings. Otherwise they really only screen who comes in when they're having an invite-only "tails" (cocktails) night.--

2675:, though, if anyone else wants to take a look. They're technically copyrighted by me on there, but I'm happy putting individual photos into the public domain for Knowledge purposes. -- 3627: 969:

you call yourselves, anyway?) might want to take a look to see if you want to merge any of the content over here, as I noticed you have a number of student org's listed. Cheers,

1772:

I changed it back to a literal translation, since that seems to be what most of us support. I hope there aren't any more well-meaning attempts to change it again. Just in case,

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It's noticeable that the website for the Hopkins Center makes a point of calling it "The Hop" but the website for the Rockefeller says nothing whatsoever about "The Rock."

1200: 1533:. But, it's still incorrect. I'm in favor of using the correct translation. 'clamantis' is genitive, does not agree with 'vox', and should therefore be 'voice of one'. -- 1425:. Replaced "good article" and "old peer review" banners here. Please continue/create any new discussion here, and start all new discussions at the bottom of this page. -- 262:

Well, do you have any? Best solution to otherwise-complicated copyright and rights issues is for a contributor takes the photo him- or herself. ] 12:11, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

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appropriate, but if you feel it should be removed, the sentence can simply be shortened to "Prior to this period, the College was relatively unknown and poorly funded."

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mostly on undergraduate education, so "undergraduate excellence and prestige" is worth a mention - somebody craft one and put it in - I'll defend against NPOV deleters.

332:"In 1904, the Earl of Dartmouth visited the campus on Dartmouth Night with New Hampshire legislator Winston Churchill and marched around the Green with the students." 3739:

and "poorly funded." If these facts are backed up in multiple sources, that's really what's important and central to the assertion. I don't think "finishing school"

3622: 3617: 3612: 3523:, a blurb from the lead needs to be extracted from it and proposed up to a month in advance of the desired date. The only real date associated with the College is 2571:(who once broke into Steele to retrieve a chemistry book). Rogers actually graduated from Rollins College but would qualify under the older definition of alumnus. 751:

I'm a student at Dartmouth and I've never once heard it called "The Rock," but it's more or less universally reffered to as "Rocky" by students and faculty alike.

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Dartmouth's student body isn't exactly liberal, but they're no Bob Jones U. Mostly, they gets a bad rep from things like the Dartmouth Review and Dinesh D'Sousa.

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Last time I checked, we had two peer reviews at the top of the page... Also, the "Athletics" section was cited as being poorly sourced, I'll work on some of this-

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I think this talk page should really be cleaned up. There's a lot of threads here that no one has added to in years and/or no longer have relevance. Thoughts?

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In Collis Commonground, above the big fireplace at the back, there's a carving of the seal. I don't know who calls it the "Commons," but that's most likely it.

1749:

Hi, everybody. My views are still the same as they have ever been: Dartmouth's motto is the Latin phrase. Any English rendering of it is not the motto — just a

1221:. Is there any basis for this in fact? (That case's article makes no mention of it, which certainly doesn't surprise me, as the story sounds very apocryphal.) 2173:

And when you come right down to it, let's say someone mistakenly thought the student who made up the "little Red Book" story was from Dartmouth College. Or

3700:

Thanks for the fixes. The term "his people" was borrowed from the citation, which does indeed identify them as Montauks but nevertheless as "his people."

2938:, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with 1918:

3. To utter a characteristic sound or call. Used of an animal. 4. To demand or require immediate action or remedy: grievances crying out for redress....

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The opening ¶ currently claims that Dartmouth's preference for calling itself a "College" (rather than a "University") was mandated by the court in the

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Actually, the first Dart. Hall was not the first building on campus. That building stood with a meeting house across the street, on the Green itself.

3034: 988:, which last year netted some 500-600 decent articles and about fifty that ended up on VfD. Most of the latter ultimatedly ended up being merged into 2671:

I've taken a lot of photos around campus, though haven't really had time to look through for Knowledge ones (really busy term here). They're all on

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Indeed, of all the schools in the Ivy League, Dartmouth is perhaps the only one that emphasizes its undergraduate program over its graduate schools.

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I'm going for an interview with an Dartmouth alum tomorrow. Any tips? What kind of good things or interesting stuff should I say about Dartmouth?

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category heading. Because the file names are really long, it might be easier to sift through them from the list from All Pages, available here:

1235:

It appears as if someone dumped in a fairly garbled bit of shoot-from-the-hip anecdote. Reads like it was written by Holden Caulfield. There is

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newspapers, and get a proper citation from that. Google books has it scanned, but it's one of the ones you can only view snipets of at a time:

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There are two sections on the Dartmouth Film Society. One seems to be considerably longer than the other. I think the two can be reconciled.--

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I hope that most Dartmouth alums do not want to be perceived as strutting peacocks with forest-green tailfeathers. ] 21:44, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

3038: 2109: 3196:, we report that. If it is reported as both, we can't selectively choose to publish the information that appears in 1% of sources (that it 3004:

Some of them are kind of shitty pics (e.g. the photos of Sigma Delt) because of foliage blocking a good view of the building in question.

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I agree, and done. Feel free to edit my wording around, but I agree that both translations should be presented in that part of the text. --

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graduates should be included here as the most notable or most representative, so that we have something concrete and stationary in place.

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And there aren't any scholarships offered by the school, at least none based on merit or athletics; only need-based aid (financial aid).--

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which is not strictly grammatically correct"? I don't want to do this myself as I don't want to be accused of starting an edit war anew.

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pointer at the head of the appropriate § (in the same way that, e.g., most country articles deal with that country's history). Thoughts?

740:

refers to the meetiing place as "Rocky 1930." These strongly suggests to me that the place is informally called "Rocky," not "The Rock."

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The article formerly stated: "Occom became an ordained minister under Wheelock’s tutelage from 1743 to 1747, returning to his people on

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his companion, visited the campus on Dartmouth Night with the young Winston Churchill, and marched around the Green with the students."

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is being voted on for deletion right now, as it's not notable enough on its own to warrant a page. I figured a Dartmouther (... what

904:

Of Ivy League universities, Dartmouth, along with Brown and Princeton, emphasizes its undergraduate program over its graduate schools.

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If I get around to joining or anything, there are much better photos of Baker than on a slightly cloudy day to attach to the article.

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of the motto. I don't think the fact that many college websites use "a voice crying in the wilderness" makes that sloppy translation

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relationship between the court case and the institution's preference for calling itself a college, but what's there sounds all wrong.

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I don't think NH was ever an independent state on its own; collectively, the 13 colonies became the US, independent of the UK. The

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The BuzzFlood webpage is a stunningly creative site. And a boon to Dartmouth (www.buzzflood.org). Lots of Dartmout related news.

1480:

So this is just going to become a revert war (again), so I'm bringing it to the talk page (again). It was already discussed here:

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My initial reaction is that it is believable that "spokespeople for the Rockefellers asked that the center not be referred to as

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Honestly, I've never really liked this part of the article about the seal. It began with an AfD nominated by me for the article

1971:

The motto is rendered in both Latin and English by the college, so it is equally valid to say that the translation is incorrect

848:

about whether this page should contain a phrase like "widely considered one of the most prestigious universities in the world".

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and then make a recommendation, it would help clear up the proposal and not leave it at a standstill for time unknown. Thanks!

2053:

phrase but the synecdochic meaning as well. I hope that is acceptable to everyone, and improves the understanding of the issue.

168:

What religious affiliation? Dartmouth doesn't have one now, but do you mean the religious affiliations of the college founder?

3128:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-UDzIjoyroIC&dq=%22the+dartmouth%22+1843&q=%22dartmouth+gazette%22+&pgis=1#search

3094:

incorrect, but I'm adding the 1784 fact onto your caption, as I think it is a very important fact to note about that building.

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Both of these issues come down to the same basic foundation, which is verifiability. While you are right that in terms of

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would be a better place to start. The peer review listed is quite old, and the article doesn't appear ready for FAC.

2747:; FAR is for review of current featured articles. To attain featured article status, the nomination should be made at 916:

If nobody comes up with some kind of verifiable source for this statement—in either form—I think it should be removed.

2177:. Or University of Massachusetts Amherst. How many people really give a flying fig? If anyone thought it was terribly 3218:

hasn't been published without breaks; they just consider nonetheless that the founding date is what counts for each.

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I don't want to do it right now, in the heat of the recent flap, and am hardly the best person to do it in any case.

2322:). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to 1833: 1689:

is an accurate English translation (which takes account of the different grammatical structures of the languages),

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I added a couple, but they mostly aren't real awesome. I'll try to take some good ones when I'm next in Hanover.

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ahead and modify the article to that effect. If anyone disagrees, go ahead and revert my edit. I won't object.

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I just uploaded 225 images of the campus and the athletic facilities to Wikimedia Commons, available under the

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Presumably John the Baptist was neither weeping nor wailing in the wilderness—he was preaching. Interestingly,

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Naturally, not wanting the center to be named after the potty, the Rockefellers allowed the place to be called

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of a different name that was last printed fifty or more years earlier. But I will have to dig that up again.

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But at some point somebody really ought to add something to this article noting that the 1978 motion picture

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impartiality, as it was for a statistics course (if hadn't met the standard, I would have failed). - '09

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OK, why has this not drawn any comment, one way or the other? Shall I just assume there's no objection?

1093:? Then this main Dartmouth College page could have brief summaries on these two subjects with the usual 3033:

Anyway, point is, they're uploaded to the Commons, so feel free to incorporate them into this article,

3007:

I got photos of all the major fraternities/sororities/coeds, academic buildings, and dorms, excepting:

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So nobody's going to upload more? It's a shame the pictures just cease before the article even starts.

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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under

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I removed the added paragraph on the AD raid. Fraternities get into legal trouble all the time (see

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I don't really think this belongs in the article, but it made me smile and I thought I'd share it.

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doesn't use the apostrophe anywhere on its pages, and seems to prefer instead the hyphenated form.

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Contributors to this page may be interested in this article, which has been proposed for deletion:

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Just some personal checks on the various English translations of the Dartmouth motto in the bible.

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No one responded, so I just cut the list down to hose that were in my opinion the most important.

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And I guess a citation for the date of the carving of the seal on Rollins would be good, too.

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What do the regular maintainers of this article think of proposing it as a featured article?

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article anywhere in this? It's not in the Greek Life article or the Student Life article.-

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I'm writing here just to let everyone know that I will be / am working on the blurb here:

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90% of readers will understand this instantly and the rest can read the article about the

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The College motto ("a voice crying out in the wilderness") comes from the 40th chapter of

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I agree, as long as there is a link to the dab page there is no reason to put more. --

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the Book of Isaiah in the Old Testament. The "voice" represents the voice of religion in

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Everything comes to $ 47,000 or so, but I'm too lazy right now to go check...or login.

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and replaced with a more accurate description of what the dorm situation actually is.

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but then spokespeople for the Rockefellers asked that the center not be referred to as

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is kinda tricky to deal with, Dartmouth Hall isn't. So that's some comfort, at least.

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I'm on campus, so I'll be able to take pictures -- hopefully in the upcoming weekend.

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The evil designs of the dreaded Wright administration have not even spared Knowledge:

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The case is described in some detail in the second paragraph of "The College" section.

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I added a photo of the Baker library on 18 June 2004 after this request was made. -

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That's it. It was carved when Commonground (formerly "Commons") was built in 1901.

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Deville) comparable with rendering "videre est credere" as "seeing is believing" –

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I put them all in the public domain, so feel free to use to illustrate whatever.

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as to why its use in Knowledge articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the

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I think the general notice presently in place, "For other uses of the term, see

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the darkness of the unsettled wilderness. Eleazar selected this motto because he

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student, and am starting to look well older than your average student as well.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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Now that this article is an FA, it is eligible to appear on the Main Page. Per

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This page needs a decent picture -- the green, the library, Dartmouth Hall. ––

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lots of colleges without religious affiliations used to have mandatory chapel.

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Phew! Kept. But wait 'til Jimmy W. and his jack-booted thugs try and take out

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All I'm saying is that, in my opinion, the opening paragraph ought to have a)

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considered the primary mission of his school to be teaching the natives about

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would count, but did it really claim territory east of the Connecticut River?

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the oldest); at best, we need to explain that contradiction in the article.

3117:(2) The Dartmouth is the oldest college newspaper. The issue is that it is 2672: 1832:

translation issues? You want motto translation issues? Take a look at poor

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OK, I finally got around to doing this. There are now two spin-off pages,

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I think maybe that is the translation that should appear in the article.--

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for Featured Article. If you're interested, the nomination page is here:

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as the oldest, respectively, in a preponderance of sources and thus per

1330:, but absolutely no mention of it in this article (they're separated by 1693:

a vague paraphrase which actually distorts the meaning of the original.

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Matthew 3:3/Mark1:3/Luke3:4 The voice of one crying in the wilderness

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Matthew 3:3/Mark1:3/Luke3:4 The voice of one crying in the wilderness

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I just stumbled across an interesting article about Dartmouth on the

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also think the Green should at some point get an article of its own (

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The paragraph seems to have been added by an anon about a month ago.

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Knowledge:Featured article candidates/The Green (Dartmouth College)

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has been nominated for deletion. You can view the discussion here:

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Please review the article and provide your input on that article's

1681:, not just in how we render it in idiomatic English; this is not ( 733: 282:

Please leave the current picture. It's just as I remember Baker.

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Oh, well. Anyway, it doesn't mean "Folks clamoring for dessert."

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Matthew 3:3/Mark1:3/Luke3:4 A voice of one calling in the desert

3554:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Dartmouth College student groups

997:

Sons and daughters of Dartmouth, you may wish to take a look at

888:"emphasizes its undergraduate program over its graduate schools" 767:

the thing about the rock is the library at Brown, not Dartmouth

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Fantastic! Thanks for getting on that, it was a nice surprise.

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Hi Brian, I think this is a perfect solution to the problem. --

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I've snipped the amusing-if-true-but-I-don't-believe-it story:

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Revision: I'm actually fairly content with the way it is now.

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and this schedule for meetings of a faculty web users' group

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does not show any hits referring to the Rockefeller Center.

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is one of the best. We were proud that he had a place there.

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John 1:23 I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness

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All discussion prior to 22 February 2006 has been moved to

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The River dorms - French, Judge, Channing Cox, and Maxwell

3767:. The definition clearly does not fit in this context. 525:

Isiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness

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No particular order... just off the top of my head here.

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Image:Dartmouth College campus 2007-10-21 36, crop 1.jpg

3090: 2318:. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found 2314:

listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the

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had its own article (like other Dartmouth houses -- see

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As far as the college itself is concerned, which is the

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On a page on the Dartmouth website, I came across this:

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John 1:23 I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness

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You're correct that he's not a graduate, but the Latin

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Anyone with me? If so, let's start up a vote / survey.

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I'd like to get this article cleaned up to FA status.--

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refers to any former student, not strictly graduates.

1376:- America's 25 Hot Schools: Hottest for the Tech-savvy 825:

http://athletics.dartmouth.edu/aboutdart/nickname.html

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But I question whether it is even called "The Rock."

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by U. S. standards, of historic age and significance.

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John 1:23 I am the voice of one calling in the desert

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page indicating that it should not be confused with

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Happy medium between one catch-all and lotsa nuggets

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Isiah 40:3 A voice of one calling: "In the desert...

3073:Okay, I redid two deletions that someone removed. 2965:. If you have any questions please ask them at the 2743:I removed the FAR tag and removed the listing from 2310:are in the process of doing a re-review of current 626:Simply by noting that a college is a member of the 618:"One of the most prestigious colleges in the world" 771:Dartmouth, Alexander McCall Smith, and Gaborone... 315:Which Earl--the then-Earl, or the future 7th Earl? 2326:) to be used in order for an article to pass the 1884:voice isn't necessarily itself in the wilderness! 1168:. Please visit, develop, and enrich these pages. 738:http://www.dartmouth.edu/~wug/agendas/032000.html 3623:Image:Dartmouth College campus 2007-10-20 45.JPG 3618:Image:Dartmouth College campus 2007-10-20 10.JPG 3613:Image:Dartmouth College campus 2007-10-20 09.JPG 3534:and wanted to make it open to revision for all. 3017:Ledyard Canoe Club and other riverside buildings 2162:," is fine, since the dab lists UMass Dartmouth. 541:Isiah 40:3 A voice cries: "In the wilderness... 337:This needs clarification or correction. Is that 2769:Having browsed the article now, I suggest that 1777:Dartmouth students: Read before editing motto! 1443:Dartmouth pong article being voted for deletion 164:How about discussion of religious affiliation? 3548:This is to let editors of this page know that 2118:Category:Dartmouth College Greek organizations 1449:Knowledge:Articles_for_deletion/Dartmouth_pong 950:Guidebook; Dartmouth College - Off the Record 3188:are the oldest anything, they both still are 2350:anyone know what it is without scholarship? 8: 2794:Thanks for the correction, I blame fatigue.. 2611:schools (Duke, MU, etc.) have tons of pics. 732:On the other hand, the site's actual URL is 2021:"the voice of one crying in the wilderness" 1870:"In the wilderness prepare the way of the L 637:both academically and socially prestigious; 3359:Fact tag on placement of seal on buildings 1482:Talk:Dartmouth_College/Archive_1#The_Motto 1022:Well, a few I noticed on a single page of 3035:Dartmouth College residential communities 2910:Fair use rationale for Image:Dartseal.gif 2133:UMass Dartmouth Disclaimer Sould Be Added 677:"Rocky vs The Rock;" "The Rock/The John" 781:is the second in a series of novels by 2955:Knowledge:Fair use rationale guideline 2017:"a voice crying out in the wilderness" 1326:Knowledge has an extensive article on 1081:individual facets of Dartmouth life. 103:reply (and arguably, in vandalism). -- 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3039:Dartmouth College Greek organizations 2110:Dartmouth College Greek organizations 7: 3716:"finishing school" comment should go 3469:have any other information on this? 2533:dropped out. He's not an alumnus. -- 2141:Should there be a disclaimer on the 2897:List of Dartmouth College buildings 2308:Knowledge:WikiProject Good articles 2265:Requesting input on name change at 2194:"Dartmouth University." *cringe* -- 1827:I'm evidently not very literate in 1399:Help with Booz Allan Hamilton link? 787:The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency. 634:of extremely high academic caliber; 630:, you have established that it is 3532:Talk:Dartmouth College/TFA request 3521:Knowledge:Today's featured article 3515:Dartmouth College on the Main Page 3457:. It says of the academic system: 2606:Tech citations fixed, more images! 2302:GA Re-Review and In-line citations 2123:But not here. So I'm removing it. 2013:"a voice crying in the wilderness" 1701:clear that the Latin is normative. 1097:student organizations at Dartmouth 1087:student organizations at Dartmouth 877:That wasn't my edit, dumb-dumb. -- 24: 981:This is very likely a product of 844:Watchers of this page should see 727:site:www.dartmouth.edu "The Rock" 3550:Dartmouth College student groups 3431: 2953:. Using one of the templates at 2430:List of Dartmouth College people 1864:(RSV) seems somewhat different: 1423:Talk:Dartmouth College/Archive 1 1360:Dartmouth College, Hanover, N.H. 1166:Dartmouth College athletic teams 1162:Dartmouth College student groups 1136:breakout page with a title like 29: 734:http://www.dartmouth.edu/~rocky 3509:02:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 3493:20:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC) 3474:11:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC) 3441:20:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 3410:17:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 3396:02:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 3372:02:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 3055:Should there be a link to the 2967:Media copyright questions page 2297:01:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC) 2069:_____________________________ 1481: 1288:20:30, 27 September 2005 (UTC) 1138:Dartmouth College student life 956: 1: 3777:23:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC) 3753:20:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC) 3734:19:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC) 3710:21:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC) 3694:20:58, 18 November 2007 (UTC) 3652:The Green (Dartmouth College) 3645:The Green (Dartmouth College) 3317:18:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 3109:18:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 2936:boilerplate fair use template 2893:The Green (Dartmouth College) 2801:19:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC) 2786:17:44, 12 February 2007 (UTC) 2764:17:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC) 2618:15:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC) 2598:19:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 2551:02:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC) 2538:02:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC) 2526:01:50, 16 December 2006 (UTC) 2416:19:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 2407:13:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC) 2341:03:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC) 2290:Talk:Dartmouth Jack O'Lantern 1438:01:54, 23 February 2006 (UTC) 1394:08:21, 22 February 2006 (UTC) 1312:04:54, 16 November 2005 (UTC) 1305:Washington and Lee University 1257:12:47, 9 September 2005 (UTC) 1230:04:48, 9 September 2005 (UTC) 1177:04:29, 9 September 2005 (UTC) 1050:Dartmouth Rugby Football Club 868:Comparison with other schools 609:20:47, 9 September 2005 (UTC) 89:08:23, 22 February 2006 (UTC) 3663:07:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC) 3638:20:24, 21 October 2007 (UTC) 3598:22:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC) 3565:16:11, 16 October 2007 (UTC) 2963:criteria for speedy deletion 2904:21:24, 13 October 2007 (UTC) 2574:Other alumni to include are 2516:20:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC) 2091:) 22:24, May 31, 2006 (EDT). 1412:07:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC) 1339:06:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC) 488:Jack Ryan (Senate candidate) 452:09:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC) 287:23:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC) 116:03:53, 22 January 2006 (UTC) 3539:01:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC) 3446:Time article and the D-Plan 3345:19:08, 1 October 2007 (UTC) 3184:neither Dartmouth Hall nor 2582:and (since Chase is there) 2370:00:39, 31 August 2007 (UTC) 2259:23:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC) 2058:20:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC) 2009:this library paper about it 1208:04:01, 23 August 2005 (UTC) 1148:12:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC) 1123:04:41, 23 August 2005 (UTC) 1109:12:12, 19 August 2005 (UTC) 1071:10:24, 19 August 2005 (UTC) 1014:22:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC) 974:22:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC) 3795: 3593:) for notability reasons. 3011:The pool in the Alumni Gym 2947:the image description page 2835:20:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC) 2819:17:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC) 2688:07:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC) 2659:07:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC) 2642:10:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC) 2629:09:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC) 2424:Alumni listed on this page 2394:) 02:41, September 3, 2007 2272:I've proposed a move from 1787:02:27, 30 April 2006 (UTC) 1767:19:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC) 1470:00:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC) 1351:HOTTEST FOR THE TECH-SAVVY 1001:for some thoughts of mine. 957:Dartmouth's billiards club 3579:The Dartmouth Independent 3286:03:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC) 3253:03:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC) 3223:22:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 3168:20:38, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 3150:18:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 3084:16:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 3046:21:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC) 2949:and edit it to include a 2885:04:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC) 2727:22:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC) 2706:22:29, 21 June 2007 (UTC) 2436:Here's the current list: 2213:15:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC) 2199:15:52, 15 June 2006 (UTC) 2190:15:47, 15 June 2006 (UTC) 2166:Massachusetts Dartmouth." 2154:13:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC) 2128:02:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC) 1916:2. To call loudly; shout. 1735:00:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC) 1709:01:04, 4 April 2006 (UTC) 1660:01:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC) 1636:00:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC) 1618:21:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 1602:18:10, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 1564:16:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 1546:16:17, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 1497:16:17, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 1456:02:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC) 1187:"Midwestern Ivy League" ? 923:23:56, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC) 900:was recently changed to: 864:19:08, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) 852:15:47, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC) 805:00:09, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC) 763:20:33, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC) 747:10:57, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC) 685:It was originally called 596:19:06, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) 472:20:59, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC) 258:08:19, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC) 134:Conservative student body 3432:Where's the peer review? 3064:20:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC) 2988:06:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 2974:00:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 2932:explanation or rationale 2874:20:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC) 2278:Dartmouth Jack-O-Lantern 2274:Dartmouth Jack O'Lantern 2267:Dartmouth Jack O'Lantern 2252:Dartmouth College#Alumni 2036:15:10, 1 June 2006 (UTC) 1249:the historical section. 963:Dartmouth billiards club 882:04:26, 30 May 2005 (UTC) 835:01:55, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC) 417:12:52, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC) 397:12:41, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC) 273:12:58, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC) 237:05:45, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC) 196:12:56, 21 May 2004 (UTC) 180:22:28, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC) 130:01:50, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC) 3134:which states that fact. 2855:17:58, 9 May 2007 (UTC) 2563:Other dropouts include 1963:23:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC) 1953:02:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC) 1932:23:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 1891:22:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 1844:20:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 1815:19:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 1798:15:45, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 1322:No mention of BlitzMail 999:User:Dpbsmith/Dartmouth 3389:Dartmouth College Seal 3123:continuously-published 2918: 2491:I might also suggest: 2280:, because the Jacko's 2245:) 11:11, June 16, 2006 2149:? I don't think so. -- 1379: 1363: 1354: 1219:Dartmouth College case 1091:athletics at Dartmouth 856:Dartmouth Film Society 783:Alexander McCall Smith 725:Google site search on 18:Talk:Dartmouth College 2917: 2701:brightening. Thanks. 2316:Good Article Criteria 2264: 2120:), it belongs there. 2079:comment was added by 1982:comment was added by 1509:comment was added by 1366: 1357: 1348: 1195:Midwestern Ivy League 353:57, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC) 324:27, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC) 160:Religious affiliation 42:of past discussions. 3587:Dartmouth Free Press 3569:Further: I'm AfDing 3454:website, dated 1962. 3026:Leverone Field House 2461:Theodor Seuss Geisel 2143:Cambridge University 2102:Boston Globe article 779:Tears of the Giraffe 693:Soon, it was called 3668:Occom clarification 1679:in the Latin itself 1293:Wesleyan University 1040:The dartmouth seven 1035:Dartmouth Final Cut 941:truly undergraduate 930:Truly Undergraduate 908:I'm not happy with 554:New International: 476:Graduates/Attendees 3643:FA nomination for 2951:fair use rationale 2923:Image:Dartseal.gif 2919: 2456:Nelson Rockefeller 2451:Henry Paulson, Jr. 2250:It's mentioned at 1921:E.g. "battle cry." 1585:videre est credere 1297:Colgate University 1213:Questionable claim 1201:Votes for Deletion 840:"prestige" comment 785:, the first being 538:English Standard: 485:Nelson Rockefeller 3069:"Oldest" anything 3014:The Aquinas House 2999:Dartmouth College 2620: 2576:William McDonough 2395: 2382:comment added by 2372: 2356:comment added by 2246: 2233:comment added by 2147:Cambridge College 2092: 1995: 1960:Brian G. Crawford 1950:Brian G. Crawford 1873: 1784:Brian G. Crawford 1732:Brian G. Crawford 1615:Brian G. Crawford 1561:Brian G. Crawford 1522: 1476:The Motto (again) 990:Dartmouth College 983:Peter C. Wayner's 892:A statement that 755:Featured article? 342:Winston Churchill 309:Earl of Dartmouth 77: 76: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3786: 3765:Finishing School 2930:but there is no 2826:Vermont Republic 2809:Pointless trivia 2798: 2778: 2756: 2612: 2377: 2351: 2282:official website 2228: 2074: 1977: 1871: 1867:'A voice cries: 1504: 1384:Housing Clusters 284:BrianGCrawfordMA 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3794: 3793: 3789: 3788: 3787: 3785: 3784: 3783: 3718: 3670: 3650:I've nominated 3648: 3605: 3546: 3517: 3490: 3483: 3448: 3434: 3361: 3250: 3243: 3147: 3140: 3071: 3053: 2995: 2981: 2912: 2862: 2844:let it back in. 2811: 2796: 2776: 2754: 2741: 2739:Removed FAR tag 2685: 2678: 2608: 2501:C. Everett Koop 2441:Salmon P. Chase 2426: 2348: 2306:Members of the 2304: 2270: 2225: 2135: 2098: 2075:—The preceding 2033: 2026: 1978:—The preceding 1812: 1805: 1795:207.198.239.111 1779: 1543: 1536: 1494: 1487: 1478: 1445: 1435: 1428: 1419: 1401: 1386: 1324: 1215: 1189: 1078: 1055:Gamma Delta Chi 959: 948:College Prowler 932: 890: 870: 858: 842: 811: 773: 757: 679: 620: 516: 497:Alden Partridge 494:Sylvanus Thayer 478: 466: 379:Alpha Delta Phi 364: 305: 303:Dartmouth Night 294: 252: 162: 136: 124: 113: 106: 96: 82: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3792: 3790: 3782: 3781: 3780: 3779: 3758: 3757: 3756: 3755: 3717: 3714: 3713: 3712: 3697: 3696: 3669: 3666: 3647: 3641: 3631: 3630: 3625: 3620: 3615: 3604: 3601: 3545: 3542: 3516: 3513: 3512: 3511: 3496: 3495: 3486: 3481: 3466: 3465: 3447: 3444: 3433: 3430: 3429: 3428: 3427: 3426: 3425: 3424: 3415: 3414: 3413: 3412: 3399: 3398: 3384: 3383: 3382: 3381: 3360: 3357: 3356: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3352: 3351: 3350: 3349: 3348: 3347: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3325: 3324: 3323: 3322: 3321: 3320: 3319: 3310: 3297: 3296: 3295: 3294: 3293: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3289: 3288: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3258: 3257: 3256: 3255: 3246: 3241: 3230: 3229: 3228: 3227: 3226: 3225: 3206: 3205: 3204: 3203: 3202: 3201: 3173: 3172: 3171: 3170: 3153: 3152: 3143: 3138: 3135: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3111: 3102: 3096: 3095: 3091:www.dartmo.com 3070: 3067: 3057:Dartmouth Pong 3052: 3049: 3031: 3030: 3029:Thompson Arena 3027: 3024: 3021: 3018: 3015: 3012: 2994: 2993:Wohoo! Images! 2991: 2980: 2977: 2971:BetacommandBot 2911: 2908: 2907: 2906: 2888: 2887: 2861: 2858: 2848: 2847: 2846: 2845: 2838: 2837: 2829: 2810: 2807: 2806: 2805: 2804: 2803: 2789: 2788: 2740: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2713: 2712: 2711: 2710: 2709: 2708: 2693: 2692: 2691: 2690: 2681: 2676: 2673:my Flickr site 2666: 2665: 2664: 2663: 2662: 2661: 2647: 2646: 2645: 2644: 2632: 2631: 2607: 2604: 2603: 2602: 2601: 2600: 2591: 2572: 2558: 2557: 2556: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2535:24.128.186.180 2509: 2508: 2503: 2498: 2489: 2488: 2483: 2478: 2473: 2471:Daniel Webster 2468: 2463: 2458: 2453: 2448: 2443: 2425: 2422: 2421: 2420: 2419: 2418: 2409: 2347: 2344: 2303: 2300: 2269: 2263: 2262: 2261: 2224: 2221: 2220: 2219: 2218: 2217: 2216: 2215: 2201: 2175:Darton College 2171: 2167: 2163: 2134: 2131: 2097: 2094: 2081:12.206.149.227 2067: 2066: 2065: 2064: 2063: 2062: 2061: 2060: 2043: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2039: 2038: 2029: 2024: 1999: 1998: 1997: 1996: 1966: 1965: 1945: 1944: 1943: 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1042: 1037: 1032: 1017: 1016: 1003: 1002: 994: 993: 958: 955: 931: 928: 926: 906: 905: 898: 897: 889: 886: 885: 884: 869: 866: 857: 854: 841: 838: 837: 836: 810: 807: 797: 796: 772: 769: 766: 756: 753: 750: 702: 701: 678: 675: 670: 669: 668: 667: 642: 641: 638: 635: 619: 616: 590: 589: 586:Christianity. 584: 581: 578: 575: 568: 567: 566: 565: 564: 561: 558: 551: 550: 549: 548: 545: 542: 535: 534: 533: 532: 529: 526: 515: 512: 509:Louis Gerstner 506:Jeffrey Immelt 482:Daniel Webster 477: 474: 465: 462: 461: 460: 459: 458: 457: 456: 455: 454: 438: 437: 436: 435: 434: 433: 423: 421: 420: 419: 418: 399: 398: 363: 360: 357: 355: 354: 351: 345: 344:, or a NH guy? 334: 333: 330: 326: 325: 322: 316: 307:"In 1904, the 304: 301: 299: 293: 290: 277: 276: 275: 274: 264: 263: 251: 248: 247: 246: 245: 244: 243: 242: 241: 240: 239: 238: 221: 220: 219: 218: 217: 216: 215: 214: 203: 202: 201: 200: 199: 198: 184: 183: 182: 181: 170: 169: 161: 158: 152: 144: 141: 135: 132: 123: 120: 119: 118: 109: 104: 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