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his face somehow, they'd have to do a different cutscene for each possible appearance! Using the 'pre-rendered' cutscenes like they do would've been rendered all but impossible as the size considerations would be absurd. Note that they avoid that the one time Revan's face is show by showing a darkside version of the player character in a game-rendered 'cutscene'. They didn't need to use a mask though, just hide his face somehow. A mask is a probably the best way to do that, however. Also, it makes him seem somewhat like a 'faceless evil sith dude', which makes it all the harder for the player to identify with him at all(which gives the two somewhat of a 'mental separation', unless you choose to embrace being Revan...) The lack of any speech by Revan helps this as well(though you have the same problem there as with the faces, though not quite as bad, perhaps.) Trying to evoke Darth Vader a bit perhaps as well... -Graptor
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through the game(all standard, pre-rendered cutscenes), and then, at the very end, it changes to a game-render cutscene of Revan standing, I believe, on the top of the Temple on
Unknown world(could be wrong). At this point Revan takes off his mask, and reveals whichever face the player chose...but with the 'dark side' deformities plainly visible. I also recall, though I cannot recall when it happened, someone(Bastila comes to mind) speculating that Revan wore a mask to hide such (possible) deformities. She didn't actually *KNOW* that's why, she was guessing, as the deformities are sometimes known to happen to dark side users. It is, in fact, the only in-character explanation offered.
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were articles on such and such obscure NPC, then it would be much more justifiable to delete those articles, but articles such as this one should not be deleted just because of one line in the 'rulebook'. It would basically be impossible to implement the current standard of deletion that EEMelton proposes across a broad spectrum, and thus it is pointless to target the articles on a few pieces of fiction. Please come up with more standards for why these articles should be deleted before you continue your crusade, just so the rest of us can agree with you.
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this. Due to his incredible power and insatiable hunger, one of my friends and fellow Star Wars fans believes he is one of the most powerful Sith ever. I personally believe that the Sith
Emperor was the most powerful, due to his impressive abilities and immortality. Nihilus had to cheat death by encasing his spirit within his armor, which only staved off the inevitable; whereas the Sith Emperor was forced to deal with constant excruciating pain, as was evident when he gave his "gift" to Darth Scourge (a fellow True Sith.) Opinions anyone?
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villains, for once we see something different, an utter slave, crawling for his need to feed. I found that interesting, especially the way he is defeated, he had to be exposed to the
Republic, the Mandalorians, and a broken bond to be weak enough, also it wasn't a duel. As for the name, I believe it to be linked to the nature of Force Bonds and his ability to consume those connections, drawing others' energies to him like a dead star, a hole in the Force, leaving nothing. --
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1110:. In early plot revisions of Kotor2 Nihilus killed Revan, his mask is made out of Revan's skull; or it least it may have been. Talk is they were going to explain it clearly in the game, but didn't want the plot to take such a morbid turn and left it unanswered. It's a shame really, I thought it would've been a much more appropriate explanation for how Kreia got the Ebon hawk. --
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the case of Darth
Nihilus it was more extreme. I guess that he inwardly wanted to prove to others that he was not "merely" a man. This could also be another reason why he divested himself of his own humanity. It could also be a reminder to all of us that for all our supposed capabilities, we are only humans who could only do so much. --Chameleon.
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1924:. And from another angle: like I said, I agree that the darth names carry some special meaning or significance -- just look at the competition to come up with Jacen Solo's darth ____ -- but if there's not a published source out there affirming it (or at least affirming it for Nihilus), then it probably isn't a
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l. Darth Sion, you'll find Sion is a suffic that means "break", fitting for his apperance. Other sith names, like tyranus, plauguis, and sidious are much clearer. Darth Malak, you'll find "Malak" is an arabic word for "angel", possibly refering to his status as a fallen angel of sorts, (he was once a
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Real world notability?! He's quite possibily the strongest sith! how many other force-users could devestate an entire planet with their force powers?! No, Sidious doenst count because the Death Star is not a force power. Furthermore, Nihilus is about to get an action figure, along with Darth bane and
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wore a Mask as well. It was conjectured at one point in KotOR that he did so to hide the effects the dark side might have had on his appearance. A cutscene late in the game reveals that his appearance was indeed badly messed up by the dark side of the force. Certian game elements also indicate that
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I completely that there is a connection. But did the producers have the notion of "nihilism" in mind, as you wrote on my talk page? Or did they look at the Latin root, as you added on the article? Or maybe their inspiration was the nihilists in The Big
Lebowski. Who knows? We don't; hence, we need a
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I think it's pretty foolish to be caught up in the idea of 'real world notability', especially if that is the only real reason being brought up for deleting these articles. I would stick with using common sense and being able to tell that these are major characters from notable video games. If there
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Well you brought it up and posed the question -- although I'm not sure what point or contention you're trying to get across. If you think this article is worth keeping, the link to the AfD discussion is at the top of the article page. I'm happy to continue this exchange with you there if you'd like
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When Visas Marr unmasked Darth
Nihilus on the Ravager, one of her responses was that she saw only a man, nothing more. While this in itself means nothing, it could mean that the greatest fear of Darth Nihilus was powerlessness. While this fear is shared among many Sith (and some Jedi), I believe in
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I actually suspect that there were indeed several out-of-character reasons that were the real driving force. Among them being to hide that the Player was Revan, but also a more practical reason. As Revan's appearance, and even Gender, is dependant on the Player's selection... if they didn't hide
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Another subject I would like to bring up is Darth
Nihilus' method of communication. It seems to me that Nihilus is using telepathy or telepathic impressions to make his intentions known. He could still understand Basic when spoken to, but his communication has evolved to the point that he does not
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The concept of "strongest sith" was never used in-universe, it's doubtless that that's what many sith wanted but it's one of those out-of-universe extra bits, an action figure is another notable out-of universe piece of info, to be exact, Nihilus has had two action figures, he's also among these.
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Number One, Nihilus was human, not True Sith. And Number Two, the True Sith are not extinct. The race, lead by the Sith
Emperor, was still very much alive and kicking by Nihilus' time, as is evident in the book "Revan" (which is canon.) I do have one question for whoever might read and comment to
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The game is all about showing the weaknesses of both extremes in the Force, light and dark. The quintessential Sith features betrayal, strengths gained through pain and hunger for power. I do not believe our Sith Lord here to be empty or meaningless to the story, we are used to tough and powerful
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Well I was trying my darndest not to spoil it. Oh well. The cutscene occurs late in the game, I believe while you're on the
Leviathan, when it's finally revealed that the player character...er...was...Revan. There's a series of flashbacks to different things people have said that hinted at it
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Which is entirely appropriate considering his lack of real-world notability. If you want to write or read an in-universe bio on this character, go to
Wookieepedia; Knowledge (XXG)'s policy is to focus on out-of-universe significance with only minor inclusion of plot summaries and the like. This
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In his conversation with Krayt, Nihilus never states that krayt was a "pretender" to the sith legacy, Krayt couldn't even UNDERSTAND what Nihilus was saying anyway, the one who declares Krayt to be a "pretender" was Darth Andeddu, therefore it should be changed. Although I will say, Nihilus DID
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wear masks. Also my comment really dosnt make any sense (and neither does yours Telerionus) mainly because Darth Vader is forced to wear that mask and armor as life support. Also Grievous technically dosnt have a body anymore (the only body he has is his armor) thus it isnt really armor. And
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That has no backing, the only thing that supports you is the exile's comment that he was still "human" enough to remember being betrayed, and that isn't good enough, remember that in episode IV Han Solo refers to Jabba as a human being, therefore we have no sources about Nihilus's species.
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I don't know the Mario world enough to judge whether Bowser is notable in either the video game or real world, and I'd say generally speaking an NPC with minimal involvement in a video game probably won't lead to real-world impact. Regardless, I'll once again point you toward
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His spirit I think- he cannot even communicate with humans, and mere humans cannot comprehend the depth of his immersion in the Dark side, nor the magnitude of his hunger; can you really comprehend a hunger that could devour an entire planet, and still not be satisfied, IMHO.
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He can communicate to some people. Visas (who was raised by Nihilus) talks to him and receives the order to find the Exile from him. But you bring a good point. How can he control a Sith fleet by emiting patterns of sounds that his subordinates can't understand?
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I prodded this article for deletion because it is solely a collection of plot summary. It makes no assertion of the character's real-world notability. While the content here may be appropriate for Wookieepedia's in-universe-friendly perspective, it doesn't meet
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As far as I know, Nihilus dissolved as fought on the ravager, then i remember his servent Visas said ' he'll be waiting for you on the surface of telos '- but I never got to the surface i went straight to malachor V ... I havent modified anything just a
1441:". Has this character been the subject of third-party press/coverage? Has it had some palpable impact on popular culture? Rather than repeat myself, I've opened the AfD, which you've already noticed. Go make your argument for retention there. --
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No, I'm not. Please go back and read the several instances above where I stated that I agree that the character's name is not random. What I am saying (yet again) is that if you want to include that assertion in the article, you need to
1328:, Nihilus appears in KOTOR 2; lacking a compelling explanation for how this character matters from an out-of-universe perspective -- and a Howard Stern goof doesn't cut it -- the article should be redirected to KOTOR 2. --
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It certainly is possible, but unlikely as he is accounted for in the galaxy proper as one of Revan's Sith I believe. I question the identification of the Sith in Atris' Holocrons with the True Sith though. Seems unlikely.
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I believe Jon was referring to the fact that the previous revision claimed that he had died in the Mandalorian Wars, which would make his appearance in the game impossible, as it is set after the Mandalorian Wars.
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Rather than talking about all Darths, how about coming back to the original question: can you cite a reliable source that substantiates the claim that there is an allusion or intended meaning behind "Nihilus"?
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Well, an assertion that "Nihilus comes from 'Nihl'" or "Nihilus means whatever" or "Nihilus is similar to 'nihl' which can be translated to whatever else" -- without a citation to a reliable source, that is
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As is mentioned on his page, Bowser is one of the most iconic vidoe game villians, that's real world notability, but we need not deal with that, we're talking about Darth Nihilus, not Bowser.
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the deformity can be reversed somehow or another, but will re-appear if he continues to delve deeply into the dark side. It's a reason, but a minor one...as it's purely cosmetic. -Graptor
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1394:"Strongest Sith" and "devastating an entire planet" are in-universe plot pieces, not real-world issues. Getting an action figure would be a fine point to make in the KOTOR II article. --
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per Knowledge (XXG) policy that shows the character was named with this association in mind, and not instead after a programmer's pet lizard or an animator's college roommate. --
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Okay, two action figures. So what? Why does he matter in the real world? Being made into a miniature isn't a benchmark for real-world notability -- I don't see many articles on "
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Arent we told flat out in the game that the Sith are extinct (I cant swear to that it might have been in KOTOR I) but wouldnt that say without question Nihilus can't be a Sith?--
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It's not a categorical truth, mind you- Exar Kun or Ulic Qel-Droma didn't wear masks and full body armor; nor did Freedon Nadd or Ludo Kressh, or most of the old Sith Lords. --
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He isn't featured as much as Malak was in KotOR, but being one of three Sith Lords, it makes more sense that there is a division between the amount each of them are featured. --
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Probably neither. If such a minor character does have an article, please either redirect it to the game, a broader article on all the game's characters, or delete it. --
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Well, when Kreia says that he (Nihilus) is not to be considered a man or human anymore, it is interesting to wonder- what part of his humanity she is referring to? --
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1679:. If you have questions about an article's notability, bring it up on the talk page or, if it's a clear example of non-notable or otherwise unencyclopedic content,
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I think it looks slightly better, but it doesn't show his face that well, because I had to reduce size or it would mess up the article. Keep or stay?
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article is almost all plot summary, and he's not much more than a background character; Knowledge (XXG) should "just give a sentence or two". --
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I made my thing there, in a little "comments" section, and if you can't accept Nihilushaving his own article my suggustion is the best option.
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Why is this article not cruft? This article as far as I can see does not explain this character's impact (if any) outside of the game. ---
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has his own (pretty extensive) page. How key of a character is he? (I haven't played the game yet because it's not out on PC yet.) --
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How about the fact that nearly every "darth" sith's name had such a meaning? If you want to check out each darth separately, go here.
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http://jediinsider.net/g/index.php?mode=view&album=2007_SDCC%2FHasbro_Panel&pic=Picture18.jpg&dispsize=600&start=0
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Darth Nihilus WAS human, he just trapped his consciousness in a suit, so shouldn't it say he was human instead of possibly human?
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Great. Says who? What's the source that identifies this practice as deliberate allusion, in particular with this character? --
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Ok I change that to Nihilus is the only Lord with no known reason to wear a mask (either that or forget the whole thing). --
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his voice is the same as the voices of the sith holocroms in atris' possesion. Could he be one of the true sith? darth malice
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The article has been prodded and the prod tag has been removed. That's the proper procedure for it, to be perfectly fair...
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Under Early Life. Fix grammar of "towns (plural) predominantly Protestant technical college" to "town's (possessive)..."
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That wasn't reffering specifically to Darth Nihilus, for a better example of what I meant, what deserves a page more?
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piece of information worth including. "Nihilus means 'nothingness'" -- okay, so what? Why does it matter? Trivial. --
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In the scenes portraying Revan's capture, wasn't he wearing a mask, so as not to spoil how the player is Revan? --
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Are you so sure Nihilus doesn't have a reason for wearing the mask? After all, even his humanity is debatable. --
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What deserves a page, a major antagonist in a video game, or that inn npc that only has two lines of diolouge?
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All Sith who have "darth" in their title have a names with a meaning, Traya (as in Darth Traya) comes from be
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saga on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Extracting the audio file or recording it and then playing it backwards reveals that he does indeed talk.
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Interesting that while people cannot identify with Revan audiences completely identified with Darth Vader
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1423:...am I gonna to get a response or not? Your last edit was just correcting one of your spelling errors.
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Alright then- I guess I should have examined the article more thoroughly, and not relied on the diff. --
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I agree with you. But for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG), assertions like "X means Y..." need to be
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I didn't say, nor did Wookieepedia say, that all darth's name had a second meaning, llike Zannah.
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This is not a "citation"; this is an assertion without a source that backs it up, in other words,
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Almost all sith names mean something, and your trying to say Nihilus's name's similarity with
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appear to agree with what Andeddu was saying, he just wasn't the one who outright say it.
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because he wears a fearsome mask along with clothing/armor that covers his entire body. --
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one of the editors claims "He's obviously not dead yet". What does s/he mean? --Anonymous
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Yes, that's part of the prod process. I was just making an observation, nothing more...
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1850:. Does the Wookieepedia entry cite a real-world reliable source for its assertions? --
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Fair enough; I should have written "inconsequential". But, even trivia (although it
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It is a wiki, and when you want to know something Star Wars, it is always reliable.
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I think it's pretty foolish to be caught up in the idea of 'real world notability'
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images (which is what this would be) are supposed to be low-resolution anyway. --
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The KOTORII article will just give a sentence or two at best for the character.
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futhermore Nihilus is the only Sith Lord to wear a mask for no necessary reason.
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The fact that with only a few select exceptions all sith names have a meaning.
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oh, just love the message you left on my talk page, perhaps you should look at
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Characters of the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series#Darth Nihilus
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Well from what I understand, the prod didn't work, because I objected to it.
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I have no idea what Jon Hart means- Nihilus dies pretty well in the game. --
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I've read them a long time ago, and what i'm saying doesn't violate them.
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All the darth names have meanings, that's your reliable enough source.
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Just as a nitpick, Grievous wasn't a Sith Lord or even a Sith or Jedi.
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The mask is a trophy. It is believed to be made from Revan's skull. --
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I don't remember Visas saying that. Where did you hear that dialogue?
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run around freely and no one would like Knowledge (XXG)'s quality.
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or a npc that was only two lines of diolouge in the entire game?
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Um, right. You said you've read Knowledge (XXG)'s policy on
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Tag the talk pages of Star Wars-related articles with the
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List of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic characters
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List of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic characters
1938:"trivial"? That's why it was put in the trivia section.
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2013:"a long time ago" -- I think you need to review it. --
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Please read this wiki's policy on what qualifies as a
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http://starwars.wikia.com/Darth#Darths_through_history
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If we need news coverage then we might as well delete
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Knowledge (XXG)'s standards for writing about fiction
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Okay, i'll need a little extra, but only a little.
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210:banner. Update the classification of articles in
373:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Fictional characters
1899:. Please take the time to read the policies. --
957:Nor did Traya and most definatly Darth Sion. --
60:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s
216:Category:Unknown-importance Star Wars articles
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476:I'm thinking this should be merged into the
2145:Redirect-Class fictional character articles
1683:its editors or nominate it for deletion. --
488:On second thought maybe not. I looked and
2033:Protected edit request on 5 September 2023
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1064:Made from Revan's skull? Are you daft? --
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697:Really good battle meditation! :) --
1789:valiant and rightous jedi knight).
1324:. Aside from a minor appearance in
66:It is of interest to the following
1535:Okaaaaaay, what is a prod anyway?
976:Yeah I take back my comment, only
30:on 22 January 2019. The result of
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932:That's the way Sith Lords are. --
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639:Personal Musings on Darth Nihilus
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1740:. I'm re-adding the info now.
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518:He is absolutely crucial to
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2063:to reactivate your request.
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648:need to speak. --Chameleon
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1728:Posted on my talk page by
1709:21:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
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1688:21:07, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
1665:21:02, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
1651:20:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
1641:17:14, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
1631:16:14, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
1610:05:39, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
1599:01:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1576:00:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1566:00:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1540:00:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1531:00:47, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1509:00:44, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1492:00:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1478:00:35, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1468:00:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1446:00:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1428:00:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
1419:23:59, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
1399:23:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
1378:23:38, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
1357:23:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
1343:23:22, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
1333:22:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
1310:01:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
1266:01:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
1181:That is my understanding.
1115:06:10, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
1075:04:01, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
1036:01:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
443:The reduced size is fine.
2069:The target of this page,
1295:19:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
1254:00:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
961:19:04, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)
928:19:45, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
458:00:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
438:22:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
341:
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1370:a shirtless Darth Maul.
1148:What cutscene was this?
1008:03:48, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
946:16:12, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
826:04:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
779:04:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
587:23:38, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
570:21:44, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
556:21:36, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
527:21:36, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
484:04:39, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
273:Category:Star Wars stubs
1952:) needs to be cited. --
701:02:31, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
667:15:01, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
507:20:00, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
496:04:46, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1822:Wookieepedia is not a
1483:jeez, let people like
301:WikiProject Notability
1244:comment was added by
429:I added a new picture
205:WikiProject Star Wars
107:WikiProject Star Wars
1463:just to name a few.
1435:Old Republic Soldier
463:
370:Fictional characters
361:fictional characters
336:Fictional characters
480:page. Thoughts? --
1439:Dark Side Enforcer
134:Star Wars articles
62:content assessment
2067:
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1966:just happened by
1950:should be avoided
1922:original research
1753:original research
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916:He is similar to
879:comment added by
540:Edit summary- ???
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2083:Tutwakhamoe
2077:to avoid a
1607:12.5.52.170
982:Lady Lumiya
918:Darth Vader
776:Darkling235
490:Darth Malak
2124:Categories
2107:* Pppery *
2053:|answered=
2025:BassxForte
2015:EEMeltonIV
2001:BassxForte
1991:EEMeltonIV
1972:BassxForte
1954:EEMeltonIV
1940:BassxForte
1930:EEMeltonIV
1911:BassxForte
1901:EEMeltonIV
1883:BassxForte
1873:EEMeltonIV
1862:BassxForte
1852:EEMeltonIV
1838:BassxForte
1828:EEMeltonIV
1814:BassxForte
1801:EEMeltonIV
1791:BassxForte
1776:EEMeltonIV
1774:source. --
1765:EEMeltonIV
1742:BassxForte
1716:BassxForte
1706:EEMeltonIV
1695:BassxForte
1685:EEMeltonIV
1662:BassxForte
1648:EEMeltonIV
1638:BassxForte
1628:EEMeltonIV
1573:BassxForte
1537:BassxForte
1506:BassxForte
1489:BassxForte
1475:EEMeltonIV
1465:BassxForte
1443:EEMeltonIV
1425:BassxForte
1416:BassxForte
1396:EEMeltonIV
1375:BassxForte
1354:EEMeltonIV
1340:BassxForte
1330:EEMeltonIV
1307:BassxForte
1263:BassxForte
978:Carnor Jax
811:Sith as a
520:Visas Marr
292:Notability
283:* See the
1755:. Please
1271:cruft....
125:Star Wars
114:Star Wars
87:Star Wars
1985:it to a
1964:nihilism
1738:Nihilism
1473:Okay. --
1242:unsigned
1136:Psi edit
1072:contribs
934:Psi edit
877:unsigned
823:contribs
681:Psi Edit
654:Psi Edit
455:contribs
445:Fair use
409:deletion
256:Copyedit
58:redirect
36:redirect
28:deletion
1926:notable
1757:WP:CITE
1234:Species
813:species
604:thought
494:Cbarbry
482:Cbarbry
472:Merging
241:Cleanup
161:history
1968:chance
1673:WP:WAF
1658:Bowser
1624:WP:WAF
1459:, and
1437:" or "
1326:Legacy
1166:(talk)
1108:WP:NPA
1069:(talk)
848:Jinger
820:(talk)
452:(talk)
195:Assess
64:scale.
2057:|ans=
2047:This
1895:to a
1893:cited
1786:traya
1583:EVula
1550:EVula
1515:EVula
1300:Krayt
1183:Nufy8
1150:Nufy8
959:Kross
567:Nufy8
505:Nufy8
287:page
279:Other
267:Stubs
171:purge
166:watch
56:This
2103:Done
2087:talk
1989:. --
1983:cite
1826:. --
1681:prod
1677:WP:N
1675:and
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1622:and
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1588:talk
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1502:this
1500:and
1498:this
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1315:Prod
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1163:Maru
1112:NEMT
1066:maru
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1006:maru
980:and
944:maru
920:and
885:talk
817:maru
746:Maru
699:maru
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584:maru
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524:maru
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415:was
234:Sith
230:Jedi
214:and
156:edit
34:was
2055:or
1970:?!
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1290:WRE
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2085:(
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1593:☯
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