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689:- Added two sources: again Homan has "Decadent Sound of Faye" (which in other albums comes from Billboard/industry sources). The Australian conference paper also has this, and correctly matches with PRC sources linking it to "decadent" related to Teresa Tang's music. I think stay with English here. Also a factor that without tone marks, let alone characters, the Chinese is difficult to guess at meaning. If it moves to Chinese it must be
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897:. I search for "Fei mimi zhi yin" on both GBooks and Amazon, but nothing relevant comes up. "Mimi zhi yin" is a phrase from the Cultural Revolution that has an established translation as "decadent sounds." Nhacso must gotten the translation from Amazon or from the record label. Why should it matter when it was translated?
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It can happen that an otherwise notable topic has not yet received much attention in the
English-speaking world, so that there are too few English sources to constitute an established usage. Very low Google counts can but need not be indicative of this. If this happens, follow the conventions of the
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with no tones, it would be an unhelpful title, even someone searching in pinyin would be glad of (Faye Wong album) explaining what it is. The problem with toneless pinyin titles is that there's a double erosion of meaning. First strip the visual meaning 菲靡靡之音, then strip the pronunciation - what is
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The immediately preceding paragraph refers to "anglicized and local spellings." In other words, the guideline you are quoting is about diacritics. An
English speaker can read a German name whether or not it has an umlaut, so the analogy to this situation is hardly obvious. Here is something more
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The case isn't as blindingly clear in this RM as in several of the other Faye Wong RMs George has helpfully raised. But it is certainly more clear than most cases where we follow "German for German politicians, Turkish for
Turkish rivers, Portuguese for Brazilian towns" etc. True Mandarin has
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I already added Holman to the article 3 days ago. Nothing has changed - we have 3 late
English sources, all disagreeing, and all not reflecting the meaning of the name. If we can use Mandarin for Mandarin albums like Teresa Teng's
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says the guiding principles are recognizability, naturalness, precision, conciseness and consistency. IMHO "Decadent Sounds of Faye" is good on all these counts, and is actually best for recognizability and naturalness.
630:" as an English title for this Mandarin album (菲靡靡之音). Nevertheless, translation for this album is never easier. From what I've heard, mimi zhi yin (靡靡之音) was used back in the rise of Communism in China to disdain
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so that other people can find it more easily. Nevertheless, good-faith translations should be used alongside or instead of pinyin/jyutping romanization when providing links in articles and navigation templates. –
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I know you gave Homan earlier, but a link may still be helpful to those reading this discussion. So the proposed form is for the benefit of all the
Mandarin speakers who can read pinyin without tone marks?
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1011:'Knowledge does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources.'
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characters, but that doesn't stop us giving
Japanese names in romanization for 1000s of Japan articles. True Cantonese has 2 romanization systems, but wiktionary uses Yale and Jyutping with no problem.
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relevant: "If there is no established
English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." (
638:'s admiration for her. Nevertheless, I wouldn't call either English title very accurate. 'Mimi' (靡靡) means "cheap", and 'yin' (音) is music. 'Zhi' (之) is a possessive word that resembles "in" and "of".
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https://archive.is/20120803181700/http://www.localnoise.net.au/site-directory/papers/tian-ci-%E2%80%93-faye-wong-and-english-songs-in-the-cantopop-and-mandapop-repertoire/
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816:- I've come round on this. Main reason is that the current English title (only 2 uses, non-official) is actually misleading. The whole point/pun of the title is "The
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language in which this entity is most often talked about (German for German politicians, Turkish for
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as an attempt to reach WP:NAMINGCRITERIA #1 and #2. Except that in this
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That book was published in 2006. It must have used fansites as translation sources because they don't analyze
Chinese titles very well. --
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I wouldn't call Amazon exactly reliable, and I would believe that the Vietnamese website must have used Knowledge as a sole 'translator'.
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http://www.localnoise.net.au/site-directory/papers/tian-ci-%E2%80%93-faye-wong-and-english-songs-in-the-cantopop-and-mandapop-repertoire/
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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decadent sound of Faye" compared to the "Decadent sound" of Teresa Teng in PRC criticism. Also pinyin, even with the tones stripped off
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this, 秘密 secret, 咪咪 miaow/meow (or "tits" in slang), 靡靡 decadent, hence we should provide some helping hand to indicate this is a
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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for article titling. The proposed form is recognizable to no one. Neither English speakers nor Chinese speakers can even read it.
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shouldn't this use the Cantonese rendering of the title, since this is a pre-1996 album from when she was in Hong Kong? --
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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English-language sources usually refer to this album by an attempted translation rather than romanization. As for
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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is just fandom translation, even if possibly accurate or commonly translated. We cannot use fandom translation
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The proposed Romanized title is unambiguous at this time. As said already, parenthetical dab is unnecessary. --
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as here, is almost recognisable. The proposed move is an improvement overall, except that it clips Faye out.
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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when there is no English, then we can use Mandarin for Faye Wong albums when there is no English.
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What do you mean by the latter? Of course we can use policies or guidelines. –
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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and also to ensure this and other discussions don't create an inconsistency,
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must have been a fandom translation used by very few (or no) news articles.
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unnecessary, but disambiguation isn't proposed. I'm proposing parenthetical
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and all editors are highly encouraged to voice your thoughts over there.
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and all editors are highly encouraged to voice your thoughts over there.
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Well, the guideline is a guideline, which might make sense with
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has no pre-Internet English sources that translate this title.
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under this title. What's the point of a title nobody can read?
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Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album)#Requested multi-page move
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Please see a new multi-move request has been setup over at
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For the record, my support is reluctant. IMHO that part of
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Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album)#Requested multi-page move
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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is clearly not contradicted. Many have noted before that
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Start-Class China-related articles of Unknown-importance
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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1351:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1051:Light Exquisite Feeling(s)
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98:China portal
51:WikiProjects
1297:move review
632:Teresa Teng
574:move review
519:written in
41:Start-class
1460:Categories
1447:Report bug
1105:. Thanks,
782:assistance
475:discussion
385:...orphans
370:(5,424) •
1430:this tool
1423:this tool
1316:Tiggerjay
1210:guideline
1202:MOS:ALBUM
1175:MOS:ALBUM
1149:Fayenatic
1141:MOS:ALBUM
1120:Fayenatic
1103:MOS:ALBUM
1077:Fayenatic
1063:George Ho
1029:Fayenatic
961:WP:PINYIN
959:Yes, per
913:George Ho
877:George Ho
764:George Ho
717:George Ho
672:George Ho
640:George Ho
636:Faye Wong
602:Tiggerjay
534:travelled
221:Hong Kong
212:Hong Kong
168:Hong Kong
1436:Cheers.—
1339:RMCD bot
1252:Kauffner
1187:Kauffner
947:Kauffner
899:Kauffner
847:Kauffner
589:over at
415:(390) •
1360:my edit
1115:WP:NAME
1099:Support
869:Yesasia
811:Support
687:Comment
654:Comment
530:realise
419:(1,324)
374:(6,732)
349:(1,026)
332:(60) •
275:history
248:on the
993:Oppose
839:Oppose
526:colour
480:Albums
446:Albums
358:(348)
303:(4) •
47:scale.
1248:WP:UE
1159:ondon
1130:ondon
1087:ondon
1039:ondon
1009:says,
875:". --
336:(290)
296:(60)
285:purge
280:watch
120:China
111:China
70:China
1320:talk
1272:talk
1256:talk
1237:talk
1191:talk
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818:Non-
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606:talk
307:(23)
270:edit
1404:RfC
1374:to
1289:.
1250:).
240:Low
139:???
1462::
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1412:}}
1408:{{
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