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the
Republic. That norm, integrated by 89 articles and three final conclusions, includes unilateral proclamations of rupture with the current constitutional system. It was presented as a superior norm of the catalan juridical order, until when new Republic's constitution was approved. It proclamed thatCatalonia is constituted by a Republic of law, democratic and social, in which sovereignty of the catalan territory was declared as composed by the territorial space, included the undergroung, corresponding to its geographical and adminsitrative preexisting limits, by the territorial see, included its ground and undersea and by the aerial espace placed over territorial espace and territorial seas of Catalonia"
1508:, the map should be deleted. This is because at present it relies on editor interpretation of primary sources to separate countries into the red and orange classes, but this sorting of countries into two classes is not supported by any reference and is therefore original research. Additionally, many of the countries shown in orange have referred to this dispute an an internal Spanish dispute which, ultimately, means that they appear to have taken a stance against it. The only real distinction that can be made as a matter of fact is between countries recognizing and not recognizing, but at present no-one recognizes Catalan independence.
1457:. So, it's entirely off-question to try to enlarge the scope of this article to include copy-pasted information from the other one, because it's absurd and this is not the place for it. Nobody denies that the Catalan Republic has been reported by sources. The topic related to the Catalan Republic is already covered there; as you say, this article is about the Declaration. Don't turn this into a monstruous copy-paste of the other article just based on your own personal thoughts of what
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The exact wording is also critical - for example, the U.S. endorsement of "constitutional measures" has far different implications than
Lithuania's mention of "dialogue". I would guess saying you believe in territorial integrity but recommend dialogue might mean that you're signing a trade treaty with Taiwan in a few decades' time -- but I'm not competent to draw that inference, which is why it's good to have the direct quotes assembled here. Keep up the good work and do
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Catalonia and Spain's central government) can be traced back to the 1700s with the "Decretos de Nueva Planta" established by the King Philip V. While I understand this page is slightly more specific, having broader historical context as well as understanding of previous declarations as mentioned by the comments in this thread, is crucial to truly understand the
Declaration of Independence and therefore relevant for the issue altogether.
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1070:- The current title (... of Catalonia) is more correct as this declaration aims at independence of this country, not of the ethnicity of "Catalans" (Some Catalans live outside of Catalonia, some non-Catalans live in Catalonia). Also, Catalan also refers to a language - hence, the title "Catalan declaration of independence" might suggest that the word "Catalan" refers to the language the declaration was written in. That
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government, or the
Corsican authorities, or the local dog catchers association of Nowhere,Alabama, does not go in the section for UN member states, for obvious facts; Repeated attempts to do otherwise is simply indicative of an agenda trumping accuracy. If you want to put the opinion of Scotland, or Wales, or Idaho or New South Wales, then create a separate `Sub National bodies and administrations` heading.
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There have been two deletion requests, and the two of them have resulted in a speedy keep. Ongoing discussions on its talk page agree that the page should not be removed because of the topic's notability and because it has been reported by sources, nor do they agree with your call that it should be a
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Since most people would say the
Catalan Republic (2017) never existed, it seems like a political statement to even have such an article. Nobody denies the existence of the Declaration, though. I think that article should be a very short one, with a prominent link to this one. If there had actually
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With a lot of articles I see people push to condense "international reactions" sections after some moron shoots up a rock concert, etc. I want to emphasize that international reactions to a potential new country are far more significant, since by nature they go beyond internal affairs of a country.
1344:
The map shows several countries in red (i.e. as "not recognizing the
Catalan Republic") that aren't mentioned in the article, e.g. Australia, Switzerland. Either there are errors in the map and said countries should be in grey ("not voicing their position on the Catalan Republic") or maybe in orange
1528:
On page 24 of the recently infamous outcome of the constitutional process against
Catalan politics it states: Proven Facts: "1.- As of 8th September 2017, official catalan government's bulletin núm. 7451-A published the Law of Catlan's Parlament 20/2017, of juridic transitoriety and fundational of
616:- dubious statement, since there is no any references to it. I searched for a long time for this resolution and didn't found it. I know that Parliament of Catalonia voted for declaration of independence, but where is factual document? Was it signed in a name of Parliament and issued? It seems not.--
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that it goes as far as to copy-paste entire paragraphs resulting in ref errors because the actual sources are elsewhere in the original article and are not copied over), or of this one trying to become a mirror of the other one. This would not have been so much of an issue if it wasn't because now
880:
Adding to this, while this page is a nice summary of the
Catalan Declaration of Independence, these comments are a clear reflection of missing context. I have intended to add the most recent and relevant background to contextualize slightly but it is important to note that this conflict (between
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It's probably worth looking at this stage at what is best covered here and what is best covered at the
Catalan Republic page. For example, many of these "reactions" listed on this page and the Catalan Republic page are reactions to the declaration of independence and not to the Catalan Republic
1143:
would require 'Catalonia
Declaration' or 'Catalonia's Declaration', not 'Catalan Declaration', either of which would be unambiguous . Would also point out that in the cases given, our title is actually the name of the formal document and statement made, albeit loosely translated in the case of
935:
People need to stop and think what a UN member state is before they post reactions. Given the nature of this thread its to be expected that it will be visited by those with a nationalist agenda, but we should be clear about this-the opinion of the Scottish devolved government, or the Welsh,
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The ministry said that it advocated the universal and inalienable right of all nations to self-determination, adding that it must be expressed and executed in line with democratic standards, in a lawful way and in accordance with the Spanish legislation and international law.
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Knowledge (XXG) should be an encyclopedia, not a news journal. Knowledge (XXG) is not the "New York Times" or similar where current events are described or reported upon. This article should be deleted. Doesn´t make any sense but increases the confusion in this topic.
1345:("voicing a position but neither recognizing nor rejecting the Catalan Republic"), or these countries should be added to the list of countries "that have issued statements not recognizing the Catalan Republic as an independent entity" (with citations, of course).
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The press release from the ministry issued on Friday adds that it was "necessary to find a solution for the Catalan issue in dialogue, within the constitutional framework, and peacefully, with fundamental rights and freedoms being fully respected in this
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per general naming scheme. Also, in terms of conversation we would talk about Catalan independence rather than Independence of Catalonia, so it would follow that any article talking about a declaration of independence would be named accordingly.
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1195:. Whilst Google only shows an estimated number of results, paging through to the last page of the results of each search shows that the ratio is accurate. "Catalan declaration of independence" is clearly the common name.
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Independence declaration was de jure according to recent Spansih Constitutional court, so at least, we should consider the independence lasted 4 days until repealing of the law by spanish cnstitutional court on 12th
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There were other declarations of independence, but if they don't have articles then there is no need for disambiguation. Furthermore, if they did have articles, this still warrants being the
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So, I should repeat my question again: There's any reason for the scope of this article being artificially expanded to cover the exact same content as another article?
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True, the text of the declaration of independence isn't published in the official bulletin of the parliament (BOPC - Butlletí Oficial del Parlament de Catalunya
1217:, as can clearly be seen at the links provided in the article, so I am not sure why you state that the current title of this article is the official title.
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been significant work done to set up a real Republic (e.g. elections of leaders, drafting of a Constitution, etc.) then that would be a different matter.
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Agreed, this is the primary one. If other pages are created we'll need to disambiguate somehow but that can be a simple reference at the top of the page.
970:. There are more supports than opposes, and the consistency argument is a good one. The proposed title is also closer to the article's original title of
1248:. "Declaration of Independence of Catalonia" is clear as well as idiomatic. This concerns Catalonia exclusively, not the Catalans of, say, Roussillon.
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This article should cover just the resolution. Just to ask, there's any reason for it to keep expanding its scope to cover the exact same content as
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Note: My above comment is no longer relevant for this article; I see that the mentioned content including the map has been split into
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https://estaticos.elperiodico.com/resources/pdf/7/9/1571135685597.pdf?_ga=2.260757325.175344844.1571268775-1030253749.1552175496
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The Declaration of Independence of Catalonia is a resolution that was passed by the Parliament of Catalonia on 27 October 2017
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1167:. "Catalonia's Declaration of Independence" is better, but "Catalan" is the word for "of Catalonia" (e.g.,
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you can see the full article (a bit glitched, it duplicates), if you run it through google translate, like
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which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1016:- In addition the move to the present title was without discussion and should not have been done.
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Can someone explain why it is needed that this article becomes little less than a mirror of
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Sorry, but "Catalonia Declaration of Independence" is just poor English as it lacks a
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and therefore appear best-covered on this page and not on the Catalan Republic page.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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and moved to try to delete it, when it's currently the other way around.
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Talk:Catalan Declaration of Independence#Requested move 26 October 2017
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Per the discussion over on the Catalan Republic talk-page
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and missing countries have been added to the list there.
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Why is Russia green? It does not recognize Catalonia...
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The article for the Catalan region of France is called
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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Existence of Declaration of Independence of Catalonia
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Existence of Declaration of Independence of Catalonia
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974:, from which it was moved without discussion. —
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1536:— Preceding
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1405:so literally
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1366:Gestumblindi
1347:Gestumblindi
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104:WikiProjects
55:
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1331:move review
1191:, and only
959:move review
762:process".''
549:legal field
68:its history
1559:Categories
1461:should be.
1393:unilateral
818:2017-10-28
536:Law portal
1524:september
1295:- As per
1144:Finland.
164:Catalonia
151:Catalonia
123:Catalonia
1538:unsigned
1146:Pincrete
1049:Retroity
897:contribs
885:unsigned
697:RMCD bot
351:Politics
342:politics
298:Politics
44:deletion
1466:Impru20
1440:jej1997
1424:Impru20
1293:Support
1268:Comment
1246:Str1977
1161:Comment
1104:Support
1086:Support
1076:Str1977
1037:Support
1014:Support
976:Amakuru
912:Russia?
861:primary
788:Sources
483:on the
378:on the
241:Catalan
191:on the
94:B-class
1483:per se
1301:Leutha
1242:Oppose
1137:Oppose
1124:Whales
1068:Oppose
735:Jeppiz
639:Bancki
100:scale.
60:merged
1510:FOARP
1487:FOARP
1276:FOARP
1219:FOARP
1197:FOARP
1018:FOARP
968:Moved
868:FOARP
678:Other
637:)----
618:SubRE
456:Spain
447:Spain
403:Spain
62:into
56:merge
1546:talk
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1280:talk
1254:1968
1250:Q·L·
1244:per
1223:talk
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1095:talk
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980:talk
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768:this
739:talk
720:talk
659:here
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622:talk
183:High
153:and
72:here
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1187:,
1043:or
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731:Wnt
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508:Law
475:Mid
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