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Talk:Digital television transition in the United States/Archive 1

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31: 955:) should be added (as an example) to the list of problem markets. It's mountainous, it's rural, it's attempting to reach viewers across the international boundary into Montréal and southern Québec at fringe-signal distances and it's depending largely on the ability of low-frequency signals to bend just that wee bit more around obstacles to get the signal out at all - and this from transmitters atop the tallest mountaintops. 881:
stations were designed to cover large rural areas south and east of the city of Buffalo, channel 4 was initially grandfathered with a 100,000 watt broadcast power (above the 80,000 watt limit of the VHF low band). All three major stations will lose significant broadcast coverage in the transition, and viewers in the western Twin Tiers region will lose all of their broadcast stations.
980:, where local suburbanites simply didn't want the towers built higher to overcome ATSC's multipath interference problems. Congress has apparently now intervened to allow the taller structures to be built in time for DTV transition. Nonetheless, the inferior multipath rejection of the US system compared to the 504:
The article was badly in need of restructuring (especially with the new material being merged in), so I extensively restructured and rewrote it in the process. The "Impact of the transition" section could probably use further restructuring, and possibly a rename -- right now it covers a rather broad
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yet, as recently as February 2008, a Centris consumer survey found "Certain households - for example: those that are not elevated; are surrounded by trees; or have set-top antennas instead of roof-top antennas; among other factors - are at higher risk of having limited or no signal coverage. Centris
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Buffalo, New York is one of several markets in which the primary stations are VHF stations that operate on 2, 4, and 7. All three stations were assigned DTV channels in the UHF spectrum, and only channel 7 will be allowed to keep its frequency, and even they will have to reduce power. Because these
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This compares apples to oranges. Power for NTSC broadcasting is measured by peak power. Power for ATSC signals is average power. For ATSC signals, average power and peak power are much closer together than with NTSC, so the 5 dB or so difference between analog and digital signal power is not nearly
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for low-VHF analogue is 100kW, not 80kW. Channel 7 is high-VHF, not low-VHF, so more than three times higher power limits, less vulnerability to impulse noise and less likely to be bounced great distances under some rare, sporadic atmospheric conditions. Nonetheless, 7 Buffalo will not be the same
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In general, those with reasonably-good OTA reception (typically fifty miles or less with a good antenna and relatively clear straight-line path to the stations) stand to gain while those in fringe or rural areas stand to lose everything. Any attempt to use indoor antennas is also going to be very
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coverage of this issue. It's sidelined there at the moment because much of it belongs in this article (about the conversion as a whole, although some of the criticisms do pertain to the hastily-put-together coupon program, some touch on broader issues such as millions needing new antennas or not
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I have no idea why analogue is even being shut down on low-VHF (channels 2 to 6) if these frequencies are ill-suited for getting a digital signal out over impulse noise and the FCC is going to license at such insanely-low power levels as to make the signals all but unusable. Perhaps
641:(European) systems in 2000-2001 indicated "that although some viewers would be able to enjoy indoor reception with either system, neither system exhibited the level of reliability that would be required of a practical broadcast service based solely on service to indoor antennas" 540:
Can someone help with appropriate placement for mention of opposition to the timing and manner of the switchover? I have found: The law mandating the February 17, 2009 switch was signed February 8, 2006 by President Bush, according to multiple sources including
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it does look like many of those it calls "rabbit-ears pioneers" might be in for a big disappointment. While TVfool has published calculations indicating 1.8 million stand to lose any chance of free OTA TV reception (even with a 30-foot outdoor antenna
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There's also the not-so-minor detail that a weak analogue signal is snowy but still marginally watchable, with the FM sound playing normally almost until the sync bars fade beneath the noise. ATSC, on the other hand, has a sharp
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I've found various other sources mentioning the effects on the digital divide and the money that will be made by a few companies, etc., but I'm pretty new to Knowledge & want to put such things in the right place. Thanks
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The FCC voted 5-0 on 12 September 2007 to require operators to make local broadcasts available to their users, even those with analog television. This requirement lasts until 2012, when the FCC will review the case
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as it seems "criticism" or "controversy" sections are valid if you don't disproportionately favour one side over the other and back all of this with sources - which are plentiful if you search online. Bonne chance!
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being able to get anything even with the box). The sources used there, plus the sources you already have, should be enough to assemble some sort of "controversy" section. Info on the convertmy.tv scam is
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it concluded that "statistically speaking, 72% of the population will end up within 3 channels of where they were before" with a small minority either gaining many channels or losing everything. --
47: 17: 548: 367: 489:. I retained the DTV adapter stuff for now, if nothing else as an intro to the CECB-specific section. Our coverage of CECBs is sprawled across several pages (this one, 168:
article, the title should reflect the fact that it has something to do with television. The title "digital switchover" could just as easily refer to the switchover from
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That just applies to cable companies. Somehow that detail got lost during an earlier rewrite. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I've re-added it.--
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affiliation due to disputes between RTN owner Luken Communications and EBC (TitanTV shows nothing listed in all dayparts). The station is operated by
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The maximum power for DTV broadcast classes is also substantially lower; one-fifth of the legal limits for the former full-power analog services.
860:, DTV2) is licensed at a LPTV-like power level of 270 watts and its operators somehow wonder why the signal is being thoroughly clobbered by 549:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/news/november-2006/why-you-dont-need-an-extended-warranty-11-06/overview/extended-warranty-11-06.htm
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This article, with the exception of one paragraph or so about the UK, is badly US-centric. The information on the UK could be moved to
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at which both audio and video pretty much stop dead in their tracks. It does not degrade gracefully. Apples and oranges, indeed...
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http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/resource-center/dtv-transition-1-08/dtv-transition/dtv-transition-hub.htm
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Agreed. The content of the two is fairly different but both deal with the same subject, so a straight merge would work well.--
366:, as acronyms in article titles are generally deprecated. That said, I didn't spell out DTV in this article's title because " 400: 79:
Unless I missed it, nowhere in the article does it say why the transition is happening? I think this should be addressed.--
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might not be watching TV next year if ATSC's limitations are what they currently appear to be - or they'll be practicing
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I'd invite a "criticism" section in the article. Take a swing at it, you seem to have a good idea where to start.--
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I support merging because the two articles cover the same subject. Although I prefer the global view of the
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The repair rates for 3- to 4-year-old TVs is: 30- to 36-inch picture tube 8% 25- to 27-inch picture tube 6%
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because as an unregistered user, you can't move it yourself. C'mon, register -- do yourself a favor and
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I had to make one of those DIY multi-bowtie antennas in order to get PBS back, and I'm within a goddamn
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Quite possible that stations will have less broadcast coverage, though, especially in fringe areas.
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What does this mean? Are they reversing the decision to switch-off analog television in 2009?
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The power actually being licensed to these stations is insanely low, much less than the 20kW
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linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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surveys reveal that 75% or more of over-the-air households have only set-top antennas."
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The list of stations losing substantial portions of existing coverage area is now on
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when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an
869: 570: 517: 513: 148:. Please offer your comments and/or vote under one of the following subheadings. 273:, which is about the worldwide transition, and the two articles renamed so that: 829: 494: 117:
Unless u Forgot to Read The CNET Review u are lieing!!!Address this NOW!!!!! --
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
906:, but same people operating it as operate the current 7 Buffalo on digital UHF. 1051: 1026: 1023: 956: 169: 604:, but that's just one small piece of a larger picture. You may want to check 370:" gets to be of cumbersome length. It can still be moved later if need be.-- 314:
redirect (a disambiguation could be done later if the title were desired for
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standard used internationally has been an issue since at least 2000-01 when
512:-- I don't think this move will be controversial. I guess you posted it to 293: 448:
no longer need to be in this article as they've been moved elsewhere; the
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And finally, having done the rewrite, I'll just go ahead and move it to
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I removed the UK material and merged in the US-specific material from
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and most don't mention antennas. There is some information in the
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page then would contain the international DTV info currently at
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That this article is linked to from the image description page.
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of the transmitter. (Lots of buildings in the way, though.)--
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on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/020806-digital-tv.html
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I just added it. Feel free to ignore my above statement.--
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Image copyright problem with Image:FCC DTV Coupon Card.png
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In the "Congressional mandate" section is the statement:
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page remains international, not US-specific, in scope. --
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for further discussion of naming and categorisation. --
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Talk:Digital television transition in the United States
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Good idea, Father Goose, I agree with your approach.
306:is then moved-over-redirect, creating by default a 501:), so we'll have to sort that out at a later time. 368:Digital television transition in the United States 591:about this - including material sourced from the 813:There is a sentence in the article that reads: 798:. For assistance on the image use policy, see 318:of telephony or other unrelated technologies). 991:tried (in vain) to get the standards changed. 894:station that is on 7 analogue now; 7 will be 850:limit for the low-VHF digital broadcast class 547:That is about 3 years' notice. According to 8: 1052:http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/report2.html 633:article which looks relevant: Tests run on 902:) after this is over. Different station, 763:is used in this article under a claim of 136:It has been proposed that the article on 354:Done, with the exception that I renamed 625:Indeed, none of the PSA's mention the 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1018:to digital, but given that its owner 7: 1033:. The station has already lost the 800:Knowledge:Media copyright questions 510:DTV transition in the United States 290:DTV transition in the United States 254:DTV transition in the United States 1058:stations being hit the hardest. -- 1014:was supposed to move to VHF 7 and 1010:left after this is over? Dunno... 589:Talk:Coupon-eligible converter box 536:What about opposition/controversy? 24: 972:Denver needs to be updated - the 446:Digital_switchover#United_Kingdom 452:section needs to move here from 450:Digital_switchover#United_States 29: 794:This is an automated notice by 286:DTV transition in North America 1048:http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets 927:17:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC) 822:as significant as it sounds. 804:01:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 1: 967:is still analogue until 2011. 761:Image:FCC DTV Coupon Card.png 518:leave all the red tape behind 360:digital television transition 113:DTVPal Probably wont cost $ 0 976:situation is largely one of 864:at that frequency and power. 769:requirements for such images 280:-related info, currently on 1068:05:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC) 711:Switch-off or no switch-off 687:19:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC) 665:11:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC) 1084: 749:07:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 734:06:17, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 442:digital television adapter 405:01:08, 7 August 2008 (UTC) 104:11:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC) 89:10:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC) 842:19:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC) 705:07:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC) 619:02:21, 23 July 2008 (UTC) 530:02:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC) 480:21:32, 19 July 2008 (UTC) 380:03:00, 20 July 2008 (UTC) 348:17:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC) 212:05:48, 27 June 2008 (UTC) 198:02:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC) 127:21:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC) 554:Therefore, according to 226:20:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 939:(served primarily from 904:different nominal owner 75:we should address "why" 1041:but not owned by them. 819: 783:non-free use rationale 587:There is some info on 466:tag) so that the main 440:The small sections on 1020:Equity Media Holdings 989:Sinclair Broadcasting 815: 505:swath of information. 42:of past discussions. 627:digital cliff effect 178:telephone switching 140:and the article on 499:analog passthrough 487:digital switchover 468:digital switchover 454:digital switchover 356:digital switchover 327:digital switchover 316:digital switchover 308:Digital switchover 300:Digital switchover 271:digital switchover 258:digital switchover 238:digital switchover 166:digital switchover 154:digital switchover 138:digital switchover 917:comment added by 852:. Case in point, 844: 828:comment added by 583: 569:comment added by 436:editsemiprotected 407: 391:comment added by 276:The main body of 72: 71: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 1075: 1054:with former low- 974:Lookout Mountain 929: 823: 781:That there is a 597:Consumer Reports 582: 563: 465: 459: 456:(except for the 439: 420:Neutral comments 386: 188:, for example. 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 1083: 1082: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1074: 1073: 1072: 1002:As for whether 957:Ben & Jerry 912: 811: 757: 713: 593:Consumers Union 564: 538: 514:requested moves 463: 457: 433: 431: 422: 413: 266: 241: 161: 134: 132:Merger proposal 115: 77: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1081: 1079: 1071: 1070: 1043: 1042: 1006:will have any 999: 998: 993: 992: 969: 968: 931: 930: 908: 907: 886: 885: 884: 883: 874: 873: 865: 810: 807: 792: 791: 790: 789: 786: 756: 753: 752: 751: 722: 721: 712: 709: 708: 707: 692: 691: 690: 689: 668: 667: 622: 621: 537: 534: 533: 532: 506: 502: 430: 429:Changes needed 427: 426: 425: 421: 418: 417: 416: 412: 409: 383: 382: 364:DTV transition 351: 350: 332: 331: 330: 323:DTV transition 319: 312:DTV transition 304:DTV transition 297: 284:, is moved to 282:DTV transition 265: 262:DTV transition 250:DTV transition 246: 245: 244: 240: 234:DTV transition 230: 229: 228: 214: 200: 160: 158:DTV transition 150: 142:DTV transition 133: 130: 114: 111: 109: 107: 106: 76: 73: 70: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1080: 1069: 1065: 1061: 1060:66.102.80.212 1057: 1053: 1049: 1045: 1044: 1040: 1036: 1032: 1028: 1025: 1021: 1017: 1013: 1009: 1005: 1001: 1000: 997:hit-and-miss. 995: 994: 990: 986: 983: 979: 975: 971: 970: 966: 962: 958: 954: 950: 946: 942: 938: 933: 932: 928: 924: 920: 919:66.102.80.212 916: 910: 909: 905: 901: 897: 892: 888: 887: 882: 878: 877: 876: 875: 871: 870:digital cliff 866: 863: 862:impulse noise 859: 855: 851: 847: 846: 845: 843: 839: 835: 831: 827: 818: 814: 808: 806: 805: 801: 797: 787: 784: 780: 779: 778: 777: 776: 774: 770: 766: 762: 754: 750: 746: 742: 738: 737: 736: 735: 731: 727: 718: 717: 716: 710: 706: 702: 698: 694: 693: 688: 684: 680: 676: 672: 671: 670: 669: 666: 662: 658: 657:66.102.80.212 654: 650: 647: 643: 640: 636: 632: 628: 624: 623: 620: 616: 612: 611:66.46.167.154 607: 603: 598: 594: 590: 586: 585: 584: 580: 576: 572: 568: 559: 557: 552: 550: 545: 544: 535: 531: 527: 523: 519: 515: 511: 507: 503: 500: 496: 492: 488: 484: 483: 482: 481: 477: 473: 472:66.102.80.212 469: 462: 455: 451: 447: 443: 437: 428: 424: 423: 419: 415: 414: 410: 408: 406: 402: 398: 394: 390: 381: 377: 373: 369: 365: 361: 357: 353: 352: 349: 345: 341: 340:66.102.80.212 337: 333: 328: 324: 320: 317: 313: 309: 305: 301: 298: 295: 291: 287: 283: 279: 275: 274: 272: 268: 267: 263: 259: 255: 251: 247: 243: 242: 239: 235: 231: 227: 223: 219: 215: 213: 209: 205: 201: 199: 195: 191: 190:69.140.152.55 187: 183: 179: 175: 171: 167: 163: 162: 159: 155: 151: 149: 147: 143: 139: 131: 129: 128: 124: 120: 112: 110: 105: 101: 97: 93: 92: 91: 90: 86: 82: 74: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 889:Um, no. The 879: 820: 816: 812: 809:Lower power? 793: 758: 741:Father Goose 723: 714: 697:Father Goose 679:Father Goose 674: 560: 553: 546: 539: 522:Father Goose 432: 411:Do not merge 384: 372:Father Goose 204:Father Goose 135: 116: 108: 78: 60: 43: 37: 982:COFDM-based 961:le français 941:Plattsburgh 913:—Preceding 891:power limit 824:—Preceding 773:explanation 565:—Preceding 495:DTV adapter 387:—Preceding 362:instead of 119:4.159.62.83 36:This is an 1027:bankruptcy 1024:chapter 11 953:WCAX CBS 3 949:WPTZ NBC 5 945:Burlington 796:FairuseBot 759:The image 264:(no merge) 216:Good idea 180:, or from 170:reed relay 1016:flash-cut 947:stations 726:Rsduhamel 637:(US) and 336:Talk:CECB 334:See also 294:Talk:CECB 218:Totsugeki 67:Archive 2 61:Archive 1 915:unsigned 838:contribs 826:unsigned 765:fair use 606:WP:UNDUE 579:contribs 567:unsigned 520:. ;-) -- 401:contribs 393:Flagster 389:unsigned 96:Rockfang 81:Rockfang 1039:WKBW-TV 1004:Buffalo 937:Vermont 896:WNGS-DT 856:(NBC18 854:WETM-DT 571:Pharice 461:seemain 176:-based 39:archive 1022:is in 858:Elmira 830:Nsayer 720:again. 652:tower) 232:Merge 152:Merge 146:merged 978:NIMBY 639:COFDM 248:Move 16:< 1064:talk 1050:and 1031:dark 1012:WNGS 965:CBFT 951:and 923:talk 834:talk 802:. -- 745:talk 730:talk 701:talk 683:talk 675:mile 661:talk 635:8VSB 631:8VSB 615:talk 602:here 575:talk 526:talk 491:CECB 476:talk 444:and 397:talk 376:talk 344:talk 321:The 278:ATSC 256:and 222:talk 208:talk 194:talk 186:VoIP 123:talk 100:talk 85:talk 1056:VHF 1035:RTN 1008:VHF 985:DVB 963:if 900:RTN 358:to 288:or 184:to 182:TDM 174:TDM 172:to 144:be 1066:) 925:) 840:) 836:• 747:) 732:) 703:) 685:) 663:) 617:) 609:-- 581:) 577:• 528:) 497:, 493:, 478:) 464:}} 458:{{ 438:}} 434:{{ 403:) 399:• 378:) 346:) 310:→ 302:→ 260:→ 252:→ 236:→ 224:) 210:) 196:) 156:→ 125:) 102:) 87:) 1062:( 943:- 921:( 898:( 832:( 743:( 728:( 699:( 681:( 659:( 613:( 595:/ 573:( 524:( 474:( 395:( 374:( 342:( 329:. 296:. 220:( 206:( 192:( 121:( 98:( 83:( 50:.

Index

Talk:Digital television transition in the United States
archive
current talk page
Archive 1
Archive 2
Rockfang
talk
10:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Rockfang
talk
11:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
4.159.62.83
talk
21:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
digital switchover
DTV transition
merged
digital switchover
DTV transition
digital switchover
reed relay
TDM
telephone switching
TDM
VoIP
69.140.152.55
talk
02:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Father Goose
talk

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