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663:"no reference to important academic sources re drawing" There doesn't really exist many/any important academic sourses re drawing, but this would be a good idea if there were. "no reference to drawing societies" These have very little influence anymore, but they would be worth mentioning in a historical section. "Failure to cite important references and quite a lot of opinion being expressed" True enough, but we're going to be hard pressed to cite a lot of this very well, most drawing information seems to be passed down through an oral/visual tradition. There is not a lot of writing going on. "what might be more appropriately contained in a related article (eg drawing techniques)." Drawing techniques deserve article
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It'd be nice to go for quality images, I agree. Finding that in free images may take some time, and meanwhile I could see putting up a handful of these as examples. Nothing in the current rev. of the wikipedia is graven in stone, and if better images come along, they can go in the gallery instead. If
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Drawing is distinct from painting. The techniques of "drawing" and "painting" can be confused, because similar tools can perform both tasks; the operations are distinct in that painting involves the application of pigments, usually by means of a brush, onto cloth or prepared surfaces, whereas drawing
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I propose to delete the online drawing communities on my next visit - but retain a note of them on this page - until a new article is proposed and drafted unless there are any dissenting voices. If you don't agree can you suggest what would be a more appropriate treatment bearing in mind there are a
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Some thought needs to be given to how information can be organised and what might be more appropriately contained in a related article (eg drawing techniques). I'll come back and keep working on this but would appreciate more input from people with a good knowledge of drawing from a fine art/history
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As a structure for this broad topic area has already been established I therefore propose to review the existing article and move quite a lot of existing text to more specialist pages as I believe it has been inserted here in ignorance of what exists elsewhere already. I will first establish a plan
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I saw the change to "deliniate a shape". This might be a restrictive definition: you can fill a shape with colour without ever defining the edge. On the other hand, although everyone has a pretty good idea of what a drawing is, keeping only one definition might be the restrictive option. Hence, your
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Presently, Drawing is defined as a "method". I don't see that. Drawing can be a verb (to draw) or a noun (a drawing). How is it a "method"? Furthermore, last night I made a very radical edit of the article, making the point that to draw means to deliniate a shape. This is an important concept, but I
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and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good
Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a
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Are various subjects adequately represented? Out of these eight drawings, four are human figures or faces, a fifth is an animal, six and seven are abstract, and the eighth is diagrammatic. There are no landscapes, architecture (besides the perspective diagram and the faint background of the Ingres
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week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good
Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project
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I was looking at the
Commons, which is indeed a mess. Only actual photos of drawings belong here, and good quality ones (well reproduced I mean). But we certainly need more images in the article. Ones to illustrate the main media etc. As always the detail info texts on the Commons pics are awful.
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true, are even necessary. Line and mass are both properties of drawing; monochrom(ism?) is a more appropriate, but inadequate, description. I will look at this when I have more time. Passages that can still be trimmed are those on 'police sketch artists' and 'incredible nib' pens--of little or no
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The edit to suggest that a drawing delineates a figure is far too narrow and prescriptive. Drawings are not only made with lines; drawings do not only record figures. Drawing (verb) is the act of making marks on a surface which creates a visual image of a form or a shape which is called a drawing
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was making drawings and not paintings. So the definitions for painting and drawing have to be consistent. They could also be the same, coudn't they? Drawing and painting are both the application of colour to a surface, generally. Examples might let the reader decide his/her own interpretation for
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Teaching figure drawing and figure painting, I've long been conscious of the distinctions. But these seem to be an issue primarily in the West; Asian art has long drawn (pun not intended) little distinction between drawing and painting. It is in the
Western culture that drawing functions both as
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I think the fluid nature of paint, and use of brushes, vs the solid nature of the pigments in drawing (unless in ink), has to be the distinction. Gouache is in the middle, but on the drawing side I think. Of course many
Western drawings are worked over with wash, using a brush; similar Chinese
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A couple of online drawing communities have been added to the computer software section without any discussion on this page. first they should not appear in this section - they are not software. Second if an article on drawing communities is required to support this main article it needs to be
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In reading the article’s statements regarding the world-renowned, notable draftsman Jean-Michel
Basquiat, who produced over 1500 drawings, I was puzzled by the following question: in exactly what way did he "push" the so-called "boundaries" of drawing? Also, is this unusual assertion someone's
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Are various media adequately represented? Currently we have
Rembrandt's (reed?) pen and wash, Toulouse pen and ink, Masson ink on paper, da Vinci (self-portrait) line drawing in sanguine (chalk), an Ingres (graphite?) pencil portrait, a computer rendering of two-point perspective, a Bouguereau
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I rather ill-advisedly tinkered with the external links and whilst I got shot of some that definitely added nothing, I'm not sure the ones I added are so great either: they'd be happier on the articles of the artists themselves probably. I think the article would be improved if all the current
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One thing I am having difficulty with is the scope of this article. Should it be limited to drawing in the
Western fine art tradition or artistic movements, or is it supposed to encompass all drawing anywhere? (e.g. Chinese or Japanese brush painting and calligraphy) The current definition in
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Recent edits, all coming from IPs in the same area, have introduced trivia, non-notable references to a gallery and brand of pen, and non-encyclopedic links (blogs, porn site). I have twice reverted the information which I believe compromised the encyclopedic content, explained so in my edit
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I disagree about less emphasis on the academic. I do agree that it should include more reference to contemporary developments. This whole article lacks adequate coverage of drawing as an important form of visual expression in art history and identification of different forms of drawings and
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relation to mark-making, with no qualifications as to being visually representative or aesthetically pleasing. I believe that's part of why this article has languished so long: it is trying to cover too many things which are related but don't really fall belong together in a single topic.
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Thank you, JB. I'm away from home and checking in on an IPhone, so my abilities are limited. This looks like a determined long-term effort that might require more attention. There was also a prolonged discussion at the
Heidegger page, but the rationale for removal there wasn't trenchant.
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OK, I'll throw something together while I'm still on a roll here. Feel free to gut it and start over, if need be. I won't be able to supply cites; more of a writer, musician and handyman here. As far as graphic arts go, I is more of a dilettante with some interest and
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Again, the definition is repeated in the Media section: "The medium is the means by which ink, pigment, or color are delivered onto the drawing surface". Also, why specify that ink and pigment can be delivered? It is all about the application (or delivery) of
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I'm afraid the assertion that most drawings are representational demonstrates an ignorance of developments in contemporary drawings and of the practice of some artists in the past. This section needs to be revised and I'll have a go on my next visit
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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A section on drawing techniques has been included and some reorganization performed. However there is much more that can be added and improved in that part, espectially in the artistry section (such as on the topic of composition). —
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from the list of notable artists. Too early to say anything about that, to say the least. Too contrast, perhaps some more emphasis on less "academic", more free, less focussed on technical details, forms of drawing may be required.
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Now that an IP user restored the
Herbert Wetterauer image I removed (in my judgment it was the least interesting and notable of the portraits, and too similar to the Rembrandt in technique), there are five human figures or faces.
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Last sentence in Materials section reads "A new tool for drawing is the computer's 'drawing option'." Sounds like the result of mistranslation or unfamiliarity with computer technology. Suggest removal or expansion/clarification.
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fringe cases. The Da Vinci drawing on that pas is clearly a drawing. But for example, many painters will start a painting by making a "drawing" of the subject. When does it stop being a "drawing"? I have changed the definition of
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or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Knowledge project.
983:, in no particular order. I'm thinking of putting a gallery towards the end of the article, before the Notes section. Some of these are, in fact engravings or plates from books, originating from a drawn source... __
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The current article focuses on some aspects drawing process but in my opinion clearly does not meet the criteria to be listed as a good article. This is a very large topic which is inadequately covered at present.
1648:) - then when people make links, they will be alerted to check; the links have more value in confirming the actual context that was meant. (drawing.. technical drawing.. drawing in CG.. drawing dividends etc).
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Masters of Drawing changed to Notable Draftsmen. Calling these people Masters of Drawing is highly POV, especially when it does so for artists who are often thought to be pretty poor draftsmen. E.g. Pascin
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Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page.
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Not sure how to define this better. Some differences suggest themselves, such as between line vs mass, monochrome (or very limited palette) vs color, "traditional" drawing media vs, well,
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Landscapes: Rembrandt drew landscapes, though he's already represented with the lion; Wenzel Hollar did some watercolor landscapes which are in the Chatsworth collection (or were when
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Any help finding and placing more appropriate illustrations would be welcome. The captions of the existing images could also be improved to mention the media with which each was made.
386:(noun). I am changing the introduction to agree with people above who have also identified that this article fail to make distinction between the noun and verb use of "drawing".
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Is there an illustration for drawing in antiquity, since drawing is mentioned as one of the most common arts? Are there ancient cave drawings which could be shown, for example?
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Architecture: Ingres et al. were sent to Rome to draw various classical ruins. There should be a suitable image of architecture somewhere in these returned school assignments.
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portrait), still-lifes or regular decorative patterns. There are no representational drawings in a non-realistic (e.g., cartoon-like or anything drawn by a young child) style.
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preparatory instrument and as an end in itself. If this is not already in the article, I can add something along these lines, with cites...time permitting. Today I'm teaching.
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1462:, a dedication to retaining a minor drawing by a contemporary artist of marginal note. Let's add relevant examples by significant artists. Further thoughts welcome.
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One of those instances where the more you try to define the differences, the more exceptions come to mind; I wonder if the distinctions made in the paragraph, while
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Still-lifes, decorations, caricatures: Not sure where to look. Dore was excellent, but how many of his drawings have survived apart from finished engravings?
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Studies: there are no images of studies in this article, but there should be numerous usable ones of anatomy and drapery by da Vinci, Michelangelo, etc.
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A number of articles with a meta-page is probably in order. There are a few art technique articles already up, but they are no where linked together.
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Tags have been placed re: external links and poor and irrelevant examples. A review of IP edits from October 13 and 14 reveal the edits of concern.
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Complete nonsense. There is a huge academic literature on drawing. But this conversation was in 2007, & the article long demoted, rightly so.
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I would suggest that the topic of composition is substantial enough to require an article in its own right - as indeed it already has. A link to
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Me too - removed from brush. still on about 25 language versions for Heidegger, & on lots of German articles though. Keep on keeping on J!!
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I have made a start by inserting a link to the Category where ther sub-categories and drawing pages are listed at the top of this artcile.
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Please do not add any more text to this page without first consulting the Drawing Category / sub-categories and all other Drawing pages
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don't see it mentioned in the article. I'm new to Knowledge editing processes, so I'll sit back and see if my comments get feedback.
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drafted. Third - the request not to add any more text until we've thought about how best to restructure this page was ignored.
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no reference to the different types of drawing and different approaches to drawing (over and above techniques for mark-making)
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You're right, there needs to be a lot more on art techniques on wikipedia. E.g. Not even a mention of gesture, really/wtf?
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to make it more general. I will wait and see if the modified definition holds and then try to refine the definition here.
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Yes, they & others could just be removed from the list frankly. Pascin was more a famous character who drew really.
900:, and so forth. I don't want to just jump in and rewrite the thing without a whole lot better idea of it... comments? __
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This article was very inconsistent in its use of these terms. As debates over national variations are discouraged per
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359:: the application of colour to a surface (including black, as in graphite and ink, of course). Only the tools change.
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drawing with black and white chalk or crayon, and one by a drawing machine using biros or Indian ink (according to
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summaries, and twice been reverted by said IPs--multiple IPs can operate in unison w/o breaking the 3 revert rule.
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in the reference section. the latter now includes links to online versions on the sketchbooks of famous artists
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Cheers, guys, thanks! I intend to let this one simmer for a little while & see what we come up with... ___
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Might it be better for such a general term with so many meanings to be the title of the disambiguation page (
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Besides all this, the illustrations have little direct connection with the textual content of the article.
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no commentary on draftsmen (but maybe this should be a different article which should then be linked here)
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Looking for web sites that allow people to draw via the browser to a wiki. Please ping me or post same.--
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I believe that over-emphasizes differences in the support material. It's just as easy to find someone
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change is valid, but I'm thinking of adding to it. I am beginning to see drawing the same way I see
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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no reference to the history of drawing, the changes in the importance of drawing over time and
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I would like a more thoughtful set of illustrations for this article. Some considerations:
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was published); Paulus Bril did at least one Roman landscape, according to my notes.
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There are a million websites like this, no need to link one, everyone has google.
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http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/stevenskf/.mids/pasc2.jpg
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Failure to cite important references and quite a lot of opinion being expressed
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An article on drawing techniques might be required which links to this page.
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I've put this article up for review to address the issues identified above.
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I don't see anything specifically about boundary-pushing in the article on
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for movement of text and proceed with this if there are no other comments.
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we're lucky, keeping the gallery from getting bloated will be fun... __
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it would appear that most people, like me, are not aware that there is
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would be appropriate - although that topic could do with more work.
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it fails to make links to all other relevant parts of wikipedia
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This encyclopedia article on drawing ignores the practice of
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is generally concerned with the marking of lines onto paper.
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a large number of individual pages devoted to drawing topics
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lot more online drawing communities than the ones listed.
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Can you please identify yourself when you make a change.
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listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the
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This appears to reflect the desire of a single account
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Ink, pigment and the drawing surface *are* the media.
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no reference to important academic sources re drawing
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to a surface. Then, this is that same as painting...
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is suitable for inclusion in Knowledge according to
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1572:. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
561:are in the process of doing a re-review of current
505:See below - I've referred this article for review.
616:no reference to important collections of drawings
577:) to be used in order for an article to pass the
369:Painting are drawing are in that way synonymous.
1738:Knowledge:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Drawing
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1668:subjective opinion or is it an objective fact?
1324:http://www.vggallery.com/drawings/jh_0155.jpg
925:works would be described as brush-paintings.
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1719:A discussion is taking place as to whether
477:. Vote for it if you want to contribute.--
292:movement of liquid down a vertical surface
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1688:, so I will remove it from this article.
1627:Learn how and when to remove this message
619:no reference to contemporary developments
473:is currently nominated to be improved by
1785:Knowledge level-3 vital articles in Arts
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301:The definition of painting is given in
294:(when done in ink) in this article. --
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1455:Persistent inclusion of minor drawing
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1570:adding citations to reliable sources
190:This article is within the scope of
103:This article is within the scope of
1727:Knowledge's policies and guidelines
1432:Old Master Drawings from Chatsworth
559:Knowledge:WikiProject Good articles
49:It is of interest to the following
736:a number of sub-drawing categories
553:GA Re-Review and In-line citations
210:Knowledge:WikiProject Architecture
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702:Links to other parts of Knowledge
610:no reference to drawing societies
213:Template:WikiProject Architecture
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1736:The page will be discussed at
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850:Agreed - admins please watch!
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319:10:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
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204:and see a list of open tasks.
117:and see a list of open tasks.
1795:C-Class visual arts articles
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646:Good feedback. Thank you. —
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396:Would a link to the website
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1097:C. W. Allers, Circus troupe
1085:C. W. Allers, Berlin street
915:relevance here. Good work!
818:The computer drawing option
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1271:C. W. Allers self-portrait
1073:C. W. Allers, Naples beach
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282:Resolved both problems. --
236:project's importance scale
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708:Sketch (visual drawing)
706:I've included links to
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1380:Article illustrations
567:Good Article Criteria
216:Architecture articles
36:level-3 vital article
1686:Jean-Michel Basquiat
1566:improve this article
1283:Balzac by P.J. David
632:of art perspective.
129:visual arts articles
1680:De Mikeal Tibbetts
540:externals went...--
262:entopic graphomania
185:Architecture portal
1393:Desmond Paul Henry
1322:), and Van Gogh, (
1313:Masters of Drawing
1211:Generalized insect
1025:Comic illustration
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1442:Hastyreader
1407:Hastyreader
275:drawing. --
256:Definitions
120:Visual arts
111:visual arts
70:Visual arts
1759:Categories
1590:newspapers
712:sketchbook
401:Kaydrawing
1580:"Drawing"
1477:See also
1363:WP:ENGVAR
1235:Snodgrass
912:generally
584:talk page
542:bodnotbod
475:WP:IDRIVE
273:automatic
39:is rated
1485:agenda.
1151:Starling
1124:Watteau
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486:Removed
471:Graphics
357:painting
312:painting
303:painting
1731:deleted
1602:scholar
1505:Johnbod
1343:Johnbod
1187:Cartoon
1175:Finches
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975:Gallery
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765:Subject
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590:______
575:WP:CITE
361:Rawbear
316:Rawbear
234:on the
41:C-class
1483:WP:COI
1037:Quince
642:_____
479:Fenice
327:colour
307:Seurat
47:scale.
1608:JSTOR
1596:books
1479:Brush
1139:Frogs
898:paint
28:This
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571:here
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226:High
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