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417:"measure the movements" (also in lead). The description seems to suggest that it is position that is being measured, not velocity (although, of course, velocity can be calculated from the time change in position). If only velocity was to be measured an oscillating field would not be necessary - it would be simpler to use a static magnetic field.
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912:! I made most of the changes you suggested. Feel free to look over the article at your convenience to make sure I properly addressed your points, and if you could respond to the two I needed more discussion on (why different frequencies, size and weight, and non-free image) at your earliest convenience, I'd be very appreciative. The Thanks,
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is that in a 3D articulograph the position of the transmitters and the angle of them is important, while in 2D the angle is less consequential. Further, triangulation is easily understood so an image of a 2D articulograph wouldn't be as valuable as one of a 3D articulograph in conveying new information.
308:, it is so that the signals from each of the transmitters can be separated after recovering them from the receiver. It is essential to have a scheme to resolve each transmitter individually if triangulation is required. This is not the only possible scheme for this sort of thing, but is a simple one.
530:
for example). Regardless, 30 degrees is actually really difficult to achieve with your tongue, particularly on the midsagittal part. Give it a shot, it's not something that happens during normal articulation. The 30 degree tilt tends to be in sensor placement rather than in the actual movement of the
434:
The sources I have say that despite the alternating field it is position is measured, see Steele 2004, pp. 343-344: "Three transmitters attached to this helmet create an alternating magnetic field within the helmet...allowing precise determination of the location of each coil." I'm no engineer, so I
680:
I chose this image because, at least for me, the textual descriptions of the coil arrangement for 3D articulographs were thick and only the figure helped me. I assumed that many readers would feel similarly, and so I believed an image to be indispensable in conveying the information. The difference
517:
This might be the electrical engineer in me, so feel free to ignore this comment if you want, but I am wondering how accurate these measurements need to be. A 30 degree inclination of a sensor coil (also in lead) will result in a 13% reduction in induced emf. For a transmitter 15 cm away, this is
808:
I think I would still like to wait for a second opinion. This is the first time I have had an issue with a GA over lack of images and I would like to hear from another reviewer on how strictly we should interpret the GA requirement for images, and indeed how strictly we should follow the views in
684:
The reason for Zierdt's non-free image is that not only does it serve to illustrate the historical context, but I believe that creating a work illustrating the same thing based on the non-free image would qualify as a derivative work (and no rights to create derivative works were granted). Since I
525:
1cm can be wither really big or really small depending on what you're measuring. If used in dysphagia, it's probably not a huge concern as the overall movements and how the articulators move together are most important. In speech studies, it can be big (say, the difference between 's' and 'sh') or
212:
aspects of EMA, and it seems to engage largely in speculation. It points out that there is no conclusive evidence that long term exposure to magnetic fields is harmful stating "there is no reason for disquiet" at the end of the section. Because of that, I don't feel like it's a main aspect, but if
458:
It is stated that 3D EMA eliminates "a heavy and restrictive headmount" but without explaining why. I am guessing that this is because it is not longer necessary to attach the the transmitters to the head, they can instead be mounted on their own structure. I shouldn't have to guess, the guess
706:
I don't deny that it is useful to have a diagram of the transmitter orientations. However, this can easily be done in a new diagram without using any of the styles or details of the original that would make it a derivative work. What the transmitter orientations are is data, and data is not
790:, and it doesn't seem possible to illustrate it with the kind of image you suggest. While I agree that an image of an articulograph in use would be best, there are no free images available in commons and none I can find online with a copyleft license. It's not possible to satisfy
192:
Thanks for taking the review on! The source you linked seems to be a very good one and I put in a request for it at the university library but it will be a few days until I have access to it. Error is covered but not with its own heading (it probably wouldn't be long enough per
158:
289:
I can't find any source that explains why different frequencies are used. I've requested Zierdt 1993 on
Interlibrary loan but that could be a few weeks and I don't remember it saying anything about it either, especially since none of his other papers talk about it.
828:
is quite clear on this point. If no suitable image is available, then no image is required. I agree that an image as described would be a significant improvement, but the article may not be failed because no free images or other media currently exist. • • •
854:" The significance and measurement of head position during speech production experiments using the x-ray microbeam system". The convenience link goes to Cornell University, which requires login. It would be much more useful to provide a link
733:
If you think that it can be done in accordance with copyright, then I can try and get that made, either by request or trying myself. In the mean time I'm willing to remove the picture since it can be replaced with a free equivalent.
201:
is covered in the principles section: "However modern two-dimensional systems are still unable to compensate for tilting of sensors past 30 degrees and measurement is distorted if sensor coils are moved off the centerline of the
627:
I seem to remember reading that the route the wires take from the sensors out of the mouth is important. Size and weight probably an issue also. Or if modern equipment does this wirelessly, then that should be discussed
493:
The significance of Hixon's paper is not explained. Was he the first to publish on EMA? the first to use it? or something else? Without this information, the reader is left wondering what it is doing in the article at
670:). If this were an article just about Zierdt's invention, then maybe, but as just one step in the development of a broader subject it does seem out of place, especially as there is no image of the very first EMA.
348:
The signal picked up by the receiver is a mush of all six transmitters (a composite signal). They are separated with electronic filters, just like when you tune your radio to one particular station.
334:
Well that makes sense then. I'm not much of an engineer so that section didn't actually make much sense to me (I didn't understand what "separate the signal components" meant) but I will add it in.
157:
there is a review of other methods, there is not all that much actual meat. I am wondering if this is going to meet requiremnent 3a "addresses the main aspects", so I took a quick look at what
756:
Thinking about images some more, it strikes me that what is really essential for this article to be a GA is a photograph of an actual articulograph, preferably one in use on a subject.
109:
666:
I am not entirely convinced by the fair use rationale for the Zierdt image. I am prepared to be persuaded, but as a diagram it is easily replaced with a new svg (help available at
105:
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I added in a bit about wires coming out the side of the mouth. I'm unsure what you mean by size and weight, could you explain? No EMA device that I know of is wireless.
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There is an amount of repetion here. I read twice that 2D EMA is not accurate beyond 30 degrees, and twice that 3D transmitters are arranged in a sphere of six coils.
82:
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equivalent to the sensor appearing to be 1 cm further away than it actually is. That sounds like an awful big error to me for this application.
247:
Ok, that all sounds reasonable. I'll start a full review. I'm a bit busy over the next couple of days, but I'll get it done as soon as I can.
378:. In any event, it is definitely not proportional, the induced current will go down with increasing distance from the transmitter, not up.
139:
98:
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copyrightable. I think the fairest thing to do here is to put the review on hold and ask for a second opinion from another reviewer.
75:
930:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
374:"proportional to the distance from the transmitters" (also in lead). I believe the correct relationship is going to be
216:
I will add in a section about effects on production as that does seem to be an important point that has been neglected.
175:
As I say, I will take a closer look tomorrow, but I would be grateful if you respond to this comment in the meantime.
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abstract. Those readers that have access through their universities or libraries can still follow that path.
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given that free content could be created, but I don't have access to an articulograph so I can't take any.
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I will do a full review tomorrow, but my immediate impression was that it is a little short. Half of what
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689:, and believed a derivative work caused more problems than it solved, I decided to use the non-free image.
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I realize that it's a long-winded explanation, but I'm happy to discuss further if you have concerns.
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I have added a section touching on both aspects based on the new source and one that it cited.
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I think. I removed the redundant sentence and expanded on why Zierdt arranged them as he did.
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can't speak to why they are designed like this, but it seems to be how they are operated.
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covered. Major headings they have that don't seem to be covered in this article include,
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Knowledge:What_the_Good_article_criteria_are_not#.286.29_Appropriately_illustrated
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The article should explain why it is necessary to use different frequencies.
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The link to μT does not go to an appropriate article. I expect you meant
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in which it was published where at least they can read the
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tongue, but all that's OR and not included in the article.
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is actually the first source I've seen to discuss the
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you feel otherwise I'd be willing to discuss further.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
453:Development of two and three dimensional sensors
44:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
8:
168:Interference with subjects' articulation
7:
35:The following discussion is closed.
18:Talk:Electromagnetic articulography
24:
926:The discussion above is closed.
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788:GA criteria don't require images
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399:the relation is inverse cube.
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922:23:27, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
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300:23:27, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
259:17:07, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
243:03:22, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
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187:22:45, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
144:22:45, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
65:10:00, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
945:
685:believe it to fulfill the
928:Please do not modify it.
38:Please do not modify it.
908:Thanks for the review,
856:directly to the journal
267:Principles of operation
584:Effect on subjects
831:Peter (Southwood)
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100:Article talk
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397:this source
306:this source
159:this source
87:visual edit
849:References
53:GA passed
914:Wugapodes
893:Wugapodes
796:Wugapodes
792:WP:NFCC#1
736:Wugapodes
694:Wugapodes
645:Wugapodes
641:Half done
611:Wugapodes
568:Wugapodes
533:Wugapodes
477:Wugapodes
437:Wugapodes
401:Wugapodes
336:Wugapodes
292:Wugapodes
235:Wugapodes
218:Wugapodes
127:Reviewer:
27:GA Review
865:Spinning
812:Spinning
783:Not done
759:Spinning
710:Spinning
351:Spinning
311:Spinning
286:Not done
250:Spinning
178:Spinning
140:contribs
56:Spinning
687:WP:NFCC
202:mouth."
110:history
91:history
77:Article
661:Images
210:safety
171:Safety
870:Spark
860:login
817:Spark
764:Spark
715:Spark
628:also.
356:Spark
316:Spark
255:Spark
199:Error
183:Spark
119:Watch
61:Spark
16:<
918:talk
897:talk
889:Done
800:talk
786:The
740:talk
730:Done
698:talk
649:talk
615:talk
607:Done
572:talk
563:Done
537:talk
508:Done
494:all.
481:talk
473:Done
441:talk
431:Done
405:talk
392:Done
340:talk
331:Done
304:See
296:talk
239:talk
232:diff
222:talk
134:talk
106:edit
83:edit
197:).
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