1120:
appreciate the personal attacks and accusations. Also I don't mean to be rude, but you should probably acquaint yourself with Sri Lankan history. As this falls under it and it is where I mainly edit within wikipedia. Having said that I am happy to follow protocol (as I normally do) in moving this article. I have made it clear what I want to do and this was not a stunt. I am starting to think you have something against me, but if you are happy to start fresh I am too. To be clear once more I will start a requested move and hopefully we can get this over with. Is that ok with you?--
31:
1198:. Malformed request. What is relevant per WP naming guidelines is not the ethnicity of the person, or which languages are or were official in the kingdom, but what is the COMMONNAME in English. That is clearly "Elara" from what I can see, even when restricting sources to this century. If any of you wish to challenge this, please address the relevant issue, which is which name the king goes by
640:. And, she should stop removing constructive arguments against her edit. See her edit history. The concern raised by the section is legitimate. Oops, I think the IP changes while I reconnect; the edits on this page are done by single user, though. It was because of convenience of not having to create an account, not because of intentional sockpuppetry.
1536:, a Sinhalese Kingdom. No one is denying he was Tamil, the name Ellalan should be in that article too. My point is he is notable for becoming the King of Anuradhapura. If he was Tamil and Emperor of Japan, he would be known by his Japanese name, same with China and so on. The name Elara is more common historically and contemporarily.--
587:: I am not a sockpuppet, these are IP ranges from Sri Lanka and I am from Sri Lanka. And, she removed my responses on my page; I never thought that just having a user account gives them the privilege of removing IP edits without a reason, on a Talk Page. Knowledge has a NOTHEARING policy too, as far as I remember.
1557:
You are misreading the facts. He was Tamil and he was not king of Japan but King of empire in Sri Lanka where Tamil is also one of language, specially in those era Tamil was also language, Sinhalese is not sole language of Sri Lanka. Are you claiming that in his kingdom only
Ellalan was Tamil speaker
1148:
If you examine the next section, titled ELARA, you can see where I laid out my position in regards to the situation some time ago as well as suggestions for how to file your controversial move request to engage discussion. I felt quite strongly you were engaging in clear shenanigans, but as I note in
1257:
for this article, which the article has been known by for most of its existence. It is also very important to know that though a Tamil, Elara is mostly known through a
Sinhalese context. ie. he was king in the Sinhalese monarchy in a Sinhalese kingdom and he is mostly known though Sinhalese sources.
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for this article, which the article has been known by for most of its existence. It is also very important to know that though a Tamil, Elara is mostly known through a
Sinhalese context. ie. he was king in the Sinhalese monarchy in a Sinhalese kingdom and he is mostly known though Sinhalese sources.
1119:
and I have gotten into many disputed before hand and hence I now have no faith in his edits. They are highly slanted and POV, in my opinion and I will not stand for that. (and I am not saying I am always right) I am not the only one to have disputes with him on similar topics either. However I dont
1056:
In regards to your statement about why you moved, "and has been moved unilaterally and without discussion" - the chutzpah that you could conclude a consensus made FIVE YEARS AGO that you were a part of is in fact a unilateral move without discussion is just unbelievable. And right after an edit war
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you have already been warned about your personal attacks and I will not stand for it any more. My mistake it seems you were apart of it. Pardon me for thinking otherwise as for you are not the one to discuss an issue. I will not revert but I will start a new discussion to move. That does not excuse
778:
This is how you move a page when it is not appropriate to be bold. You really want to make an argument for a move, you need to tell us why you want to move it and you need to do it properly. Full disclosure: I have reported you to ANI for flagrant page move edit warring. I am also pretty angry you
1023:, without understanding this basic principle. How do I know it's nationalism? Because you keep insisting, without evidence, that a Tamil king's page should be moved to the Sinhala version of his name right after a user was banned for sockpuppetting to make that very edit. Because it is apparently
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using the template {{subst:Requested move|NewName|reason=Place here your rationale for the proposed page name change, ideally referring to applicable naming convention policies and guidelines, and providing evidence in support where appropriate. If your reasoning includes search engine results,
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years ago and the only proper evidence on him is the
Mahavamsa, and as discussed above there is hardly any evidence on him from India as well. I never said that he came alone or any of the absurd things you mentioned. He was a person from present day India who came to present day Sri Lanka and
948:
I'm sorry, how would you know this was a nationalistic move? I would regard that as a personal attack! You know nothing about me. I invite you to discuss as I have clearly given my reasons above and have stated that the previous move (before the last few reverts today) was also done without
1093:? I have no idea what the issues are, why Blackknight12 moved the page. He hasn't said. We should start by seeing if he wants to move the page (likely) and then we move to discussions about why. Literally no discussion, no way to word the RfC without understanding what is even going on.
1329:
that the motivations of users who have been sock-puppet edit-warring this page (not you) are part of a larger issue of ethnic tension between Tamils and
Sinhalese people in Sri Lanka as we've seen all over Knowledge articles and a signal that we should examine the situation more
1018:
unilaterally move a page in the wake of an edit war without any discussion and then "invite" me and other editors to "discuss". That is the opposite of consensus, that is bad-faith editing and I do not even understand how you could be on
Knowledge for one year, nevermind since
1317:: I am concerned about a number of things. If anyone could discuss some of these issues I'd appreciate it, as I know WP:COMMONNAME is a powerful argument. I am willing to change my argument, but I want to have this discussion before I make a support decision. My concerns are:
85:
So we have a lot to do to improve this article rather than to prsent this
Monarch as a real person when we dont have any evidence to it in India (where he is supposed to have come from) or Sri Lanka (epighraphic to support the literray source) 16:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC) -
1114:
I don't know who you think I am, but I am not it. There was no malice nor anything shady in what I was trying to do. I was not involved in the above discussion or edit war about the Tamil script. Let me apologise to both of you for not seeing the above discussion as cited.
511:. This discussion should address whether the Tamil-script text should be added to the infobox per Knowledge guidelines, including the sitewide Manual of Style, project-specific manuals of style, and the effects of requests for comments (which Ogress references at
1558:
and all of his subjects were
Sinhlese?. Kings and Queens of British empire ruled India, so should we write their names in Hindi, Marathi, Urdu instead of English? At least Tamil-Sri Lanka-Ellalan are related things, its not thing like King of Japan and China.--
1435:: 5 April 2015‎ Copperchloride (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (14,265 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Copperchloride moved page Elara (monarch) to Ellalan (monarch) over redirect: Discussion pertaining to related section in talk page; Original name of the monarch) (undo | thank)
127:
On top of it the existance of the Early Cholas that early in history (that is the time frame of Elara) is being questioned by mainstream historians. So
Mahvamas actually provides evidence of early chols but it is still only literry evidence not actual.
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Oh, I have seen the previous edit; if you are claiming that I am a sockpuppet then you are racist, because you KNEW that it could be written using Tamil script under his name on that top-left box in Latin script, but you removed it anyway.
278:
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usurped the throne, becoming ruler, hence he is an invader. And please do not include your POV statements such as "Although he was an outsider with respect to the authors of
Mahavamsa". I hope you understand and good luck for the future.--
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tool becomes a norm for naming articles(especially since there exist multiple entities with the same name;and you cannot connote a search for more than one word, For example in this case - Hits for "Manu Needhi Chola"). Thank you.
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Ellalan has also been an important ethnic hero to the Sri Lankan Tamils, including the Tamil Tigers, and choosing to name a Tamil hero king under a Sri Lankan name needs to be an actual decision, not just NGRAMS are
1429:: 4 November 2009‎ - 5 April 2015 SpacemanSpiff (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,722 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Elalan (monarch) to Elara (monarch) over redirect: User has been moving pages without consensus) (undo | thank)
652:
Cool down IPs, don't harass anyone, as admins are saying, you should talk about content and not about editors. Moreover, I have added Tamil script in infobox, I think there is no problem in adding it in infobox as
547:
Said user has referred to me with many explicit slurs and is a sockpuppet; don't bother responding. This page was protected because of his deleterious editing and many of his IP socks banned for personal attacks.
1476:
5 I am no expert on this, but I would say it is more the hero of the Tamil Tigers that Sri Lankan Tamils per se. However I am more interested in its historical and intellectual value than its propaganda
1364:
NGRAMS show that Elara was very popular with the Orientalists before 1900 but the name usage declines sharply thereafter and while it remains in the lead, Ellalan has a modern surge with plenty of hits.
506:
It is one thing to assert that an editor's actions do not follow the letter or spirit of AGF, but it is another thing to accuse the editor of being a racist. I'm going to remind the IP in particular to
965:
Going by your ridiculous edit summaries/talk messages I am sorry to assume as such but I suppose you must be either you must be stone blind, or outright idiotic in your attempt to push your POV.
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discussion unilaterally. Neither was the editor in question apart of that discussion. I have presented fact, do not go about accusing me of being nationalistic while it is clear others are.--
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Interesting (and valid) concern. I always took it for granted that Elara is not just found in Mahavamsa but a well documented in other sources as well. Your comments is food for thought.
190:
Actually, Vijaya is an invader as well, because he came from " Present day India". I don't really understand why are these people so interested in wiping away the history of Tamils.
1647:
changed the request from "Elara" to "Elara (monarch)"; that kind of change should have a dramatic announcement at the bottom of all currently lodged comments. So you removed the
465:, and definitely not the place to abuse your power by preventing constructive edits like this (if you have write access / lock privileges) based on your personal problems. And,
340:. I assume inadequate response/lack of response(as in your case) as a ground for consensus, and have moved the page accordingly as directed in the conversation. If you have a
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that common usage is sometimes less relevant when it comes to historical figures, especially since he was, in fact, a Tamil with a Tamil name and is hardly a household name.
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It is not make this edit and I stop; It is just that you are undoing edits for YOUR personal reasons; if you want to remove this section, then it should have been addressed.
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876:. Your comparison has already been refuted in the preceding discussion, and it is very nice to see how you change the title evading it, and claim the article title was
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Multiple existing sources within the article suggest Elara is a corruption of the Tamil name Ellalan who was a Chola King. Also please clarify on what grounds does the
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1466:, a Sinhalese Kingdom, hence why he is known and most notable in a Sinhalese context. And therefore "official names" would apply here in favour of the move. The
1808:
There was no consensus for this move, so I've returned the page to the previous title until a consensus can be reached. Apologies for any confusion. Thanks,
1450:
I dont believe the move made on 5 April 2015 is valid as there was no real discussion and the previous discussion ended in a no consensus, in favour of Elara.
1411:: 8 March 2006‎ - 19 July 2006‎ - Clozapine (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (4,399 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Ellaalan to Elara (King): Ellaalan is not the common name.)
1423:: 27 October 2009 - 4 November 2009‎ Tamilstyle (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,701 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Elara (monarch) to Elalan (monarch): The right name)
1349:. Also, there is leeway in official names that are not the common name. He was a Tamil and a Chola; he had a Tamil name; he is mentioned not only in the
1470:
article also states clearly "The Mahavamsa mentions that an ethnic Tamil adventurer, a Chola prince known as Elara, invaded the island around 235 BCE."
1455:
2. There are "extremists editors" from both sides and I deal with them all the time, I have seen many come and go but that shouldn't distort the facts.
904:
Clearly it was not! And you were no where near the discussion. Check the history and see for yourself the unilateral move that you yourself made!--
248:
He was a tamil King, why you call him in a sinhalized name "Elara"Â ? The tamil pronunciation is "Elalan", I request to change the name in Elalan.--
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1417:: 19 July 2006‎ - 22 April 2008‎ GlassCobra (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (4,653 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Elara (King) to Elara (monarch): WP:MOS)
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1516:, so his name should be in Tamil, not in Sinhalese. When mothertounge of Ellalan was Tamil then how we can write his name in Sinhalese? --
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This article presents that Elara was an acatual king but he is known only from Mahavamsa and there are secondary sources that cliam that
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
1719:. Even if "Elara" is preferred over "Ellalan", it is still definitely not the primary topic and should hence be at "Elara (monarch)". --
1035:
To gain support through a whisper campaign? I struggled and failed to find a good-faith understanding of the situation you have caused.
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even draw you a map. You have not even bothered to tell us why you want to move the page. If you want to, this is the way to do it.
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I'm tired of personal attacks and threats. "Make this edit and I'll stop" needs a strong response and there's a huge backlog at SI.
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3. I don't think anyone is denying Elara/Ellalan is Tamil. However Elara was never a Chola king (in the sense he never ruled the
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1031:. You'd better self-revert before this becomes an admin issue over your exceedingly inappropriate behavior. Was this why you
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please present Google Books or Google News Archive results before providing other web results. Do not sign this.|talk=yes}}
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AEllalan_%28monarch%29&type=revision&diff=672707949&oldid=672707707
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The article title in its present form (Ellalan) is incorrect and has been moved unilaterally and without discussion.
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1676:: Per Human3015, no worry about search engine result, act as per local sense and do not "push" from your view. --
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The real name is Elara, not Elalan. If he were real, then may be he had a tamil name; but we are not sure of it.
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1462:) but he was from the royal house of Chola. The wording of the article lead is misleading. He was King of the
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nationalistic reasons. There literally was just an edit war on this page about the name and you come and just
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Basically, I think this is way more complicated than it looks and I'm not convinced that a move is correct.
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1. He may have been fictious creation all along as it was written down 700 years after his supposed death.
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So you want to move a page. Is it uncontroversial? Okay. Then you should discuss at talk and/or file at
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to you to change it without evidence, without discussion, and I see you attempted this same manoeuvre
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I moved back some of these pages that were disruptive moves -- no consensus for the change in title. -
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2. If he were real then he may have not been an invader but a local usurper of throne that too a Hindu
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is restricted to lead and we already have numerous articles mentioning "native name" in infobox. --
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Sorry, how are you so sure enough to assert this? Knowledge is NOT the place to hold grudges; see
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429:, can you add it under the name of the king on the top right box? I would really appreciate that.
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Ah, I see what you changed in the nomination now, you changed the nomination out from under us.
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Elara, I am willing to put that behind me under the assumption that you will act appropriately.
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1736:. At 06:12, 28 July 2015 (UTC), 67.70.32.190 changed the move target from the unqualified
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No, I did not change the target, the nominator already changed the target per this edit
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You can not say present day Tamils in Sri Lanka are related to Elara, he happened over
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is also found in Greek mythology and is a name of a Jupiter moon. Thats, why the name
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who ruled Sri Lanka from 205 BC to 161 BC from the ancient capital of Anuradhapura.
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That's funny, because it seems to happen when you get blocked for abusive behavior.
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You are a sock who has hurled incredibly rude slurs at me, but I will reply anyway:
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Oops, thanks, now I understand. But how do I warn a user about disruptive edits?
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
1396:: I have numbered your comments so it is easier to reply to if you dont mind.
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reminds me that the current addendum (monarch) is awkward and that the format
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User Blackknight12, I have moved the page title going by the point raised by
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Furthermore it is by far the most common and relevant name, see comparision
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Furthermore it is by far the most common and relevant name, see comparision
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On what basis are you saying that present day tamils in SL are not related?
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moved. All your other claims for the move constitute just another bunch of
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here before you do so rather than blaming me for unilateral behavior.
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1249:– The article title in its present form (Ellalan) is incorrect.
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Knowledge:Sockpuppet_investigations/175.157.245.185#21_July_2015
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I went to ANI, myself. How do we go to RfC when the discussion
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Why was rhe Tamil script of "Ellaalan" (எல்லாளன்) removed?
1262:. Google results also reflect this. "Elara 'King'" returns
827:. Google results also reflect this. "Elara 'King'" returns
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no evidence given this is the primary topic of "Elara" --
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No. You are a sockpuppet and abusive. Stop talking to me.
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I have clearly outlined the preceding discussion's link.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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Should the page be renamed or remain at this title?
469:. Moreover, what you are doing, is bad to Knowledge.
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Knowledge:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)
1189:. No further edits should be made to this section.
922:you move this page without discussing it - and for
779:pulled what appears to be a stunt move. However, I
1797:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1473:4. It is still nowhere near the useage of Elara.
1286:. It is pretty clear what the title should be.--
851:. It is pretty clear what the title should be.--
1341:fits the Chola royal naming convention as with
1326:have consensus as Ellalan since 2009 at least
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1401:1. Here is the history of the article name:
884:which I will overlook for the time being.--
1595:Woops, I missed that, have fixed it now.--
1175:The following is a closed discussion of a
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1532:As above, he was not, he was King of the
1508:which ruled south India, and language of
772:Knowledge:Requested moves/Controversial
236:Elara (235 BC - 161 BC), also known as
1200:in reliable sources written in English
730:: Thanks, whoever added that section.
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1740:(currently a disambiguation page) to
1075:I think we should go for RfC here. --
263:He is most commonly known as Elara.--
7:
1194:The result of the move request was:
567:I think we need a range block here.
1651:issue and this is now solely about
1577:Oppose - close as malformed request
509:focus on the edits, not the editors
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344:reason to revert, please clarify
313:should be changed appropriate to
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1353:but also in the Tamil-language
783:discuss this issue properly, I
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869:The move was made after your
1700:I am not pushing any view.--
1294:) 07:48, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
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119:15:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
1168:Requested move 26 July 2015
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1817:14:01, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
1579:the target is a dab page.
1274:, while "Ellalan" returns
1266:, "Elara monarch" returns
1212:20:35, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
997:you from you POV pushing--
839:, while "Ellalan" returns
831:, "Elara monarch" returns
787:abide by consensus, and I
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372:15:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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1790:Please do not modify it.
1182:Please do not modify it.
309:. I think the page name
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168:07:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
1504:, Ellalan was King of
1315:Oppose until discussion
1057:about this very issue?
1033:wanted me to email you?
377:Tamil script of Elara.
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1284:1360 hits for Ellalan
849:1360 hits for Ellalan
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42:of past discussions.
1534:Anuradhapura Kingdom
1464:Anuradhapura Kingdom
1270:, 'Elara Sri Lanka"
835:, 'Elara Sri Lanka"
642:unsigned comment by
636:see there. And, see
305:is more famous than
1117:User:Copperchloride
1091:hasn't even started
994:User:Copperchloride
1630:Please see above--
1347:Rajendra Chola III
874:in this discussion
353:Google Books NGram
1241:Ellalan (monarch)
1223:
1220:non-admin closure
748:
736:comment added by
719:or, suggest them?
691:
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399:
387:comment added by
319:Manu Neethi Chola
111:Ritigala Jayasena
105:
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732:— Preceding
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383:— Preceding
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155:two thousand
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84:
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18:Talk:Ellalan
1795:move review
1653:common name
1187:move review
1112:User:Ogress
867:Moving back
671:knock knock
277:Please see
197:Name change
88:—Preceding
36:This is an
250:Tamilstyle
242:Tamil king
203:Taprobanus
130:Taprobanus
1560:Human3015
1518:Human3015
1351:Mahavamsa
1282:and only
1228:Wugapodes
1077:Human3015
1025:important
924:blatantly
847:and only
728:Human3015
714:Human3015
297:The word
61:Archive 1
1804:Restored
1477:value.--
1394:Comments
734:unsigned
570:Philg88
385:unsigned
323:Vatasura
219:Spaceman
188:Sembiyan
175:Sembiyan
102:contribs
90:unsigned
70:Question
1721:JorisvS
1433:Ellalan
1421:Ellalan
1409:Ellalan
1330:closely
1276:84, 100
1272:39, 600
1253:is the
1014:You do
841:84, 100
837:39, 600
818:is the
759:"Elara"
638:WP:HEAR
630:Philg88
594:Philg88
585:Philg88
467:WP:DGAF
342:genuine
315:Ellalan
307:Ellalan
146:Invader
39:archive
1747:C.Fred
1717:Oppose
1674:Oppose
1502:Ogress
1500:: Per
1498:Oppose
1382:smash!
1376:Ogress
1309:Survey
1268:49,400
1158:smash!
1152:Ogress
1102:smash!
1096:Ogress
1066:smash!
1060:Ogress
1044:smash!
1038:Ogress
939:smash!
933:Ogress
833:49,400
800:smash!
794:Ogress
724:Ogress
701:smash!
695:Ogress
621:Ogress
610:smash!
604:Ogress
581:C.Fred
557:smash!
551:Ogress
543:C.Fred
518:C.Fred
485:Ogress
463:WP:AGF
452:smash!
446:Ogress
427:Ogress
425:Hello
416:smash!
410:Ogress
238:Elalan
1812:Nakon
1738:Elara
1514:Tamil
1427:Elara
1415:Elara
1368:good.
1251:Elara
1204:kwami
1196:Moved
882:WP:OR
816:Elara
810:title
661:Human
303:Elara
299:Elara
225:Spiff
16:<
1769:talk
1752:talk
1725:talk
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1512:was
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1357:and
1345:and
1300:talk
1292:talk
1260:here
1232:talk
1208:talk
1202:. —
1126:talk
1081:talk
1021:2008
1003:talk
972:CuCl
955:talk
920:dare
918:How
910:talk
887:CuCl
857:talk
825:here
789:will
785:will
781:will
742:talk
664:3015
523:talk
498:talk
475:talk
435:talk
393:talk
359:CuCl
327:talk
287:talk
279:this
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179:talk
164:talk
134:talk
115:talk
98:talk
1787:.
1763:--
1744:. —
1678:Ant
1655:--
1324:did
1016:not
969:.--
515:. —
346:why
321:.--
317:or
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50:.
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