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1078:, which you may be able to use to expand this article in a few places that might be lacking, such as additional info about her struggle with Polio, as well as her personal life. The article also includes a complete breakdown of honors and medals she received (are all of them listed here?) as well as a very nice list of further reading that could be added to this article. I think that it is very close to a GA, regardless of it's length, if just a
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Navy became increasingly ::frustrated and visited the plant, and the next week, MacGill and the production line boss, Bill
Soulsby, were both ::fired. Rumors spread about shoddy treatment by the Navy brass from Soulsby, but these turned out to be untrue. The ::real reason was that the two were carrying on an affair, which became public in a somewhat ironic fashion when ::Soulsby and MacGill married two weeks later, rendering their firing moot.
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now some of the citations appear inside the punctuation, some are outside, and citation number 6 seems to have been lost. Also, I just noticed that there is a quote lacking (and in need of) a citation: "I have received many engineering awards, but I hope I will also be remembered as an advocate for the rights of women and children."
1074:, I am glad that you nominated it as a GA. Elsie was a fascinating individual and led such an interesting life, I wish I could have met her. Overall this article is well written and gives a nice overview of Elsie's life, but there are probably a few bare spots. In the course of researching "the list" I came across this article
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get started. MacGill and E.J. Soulsby, the former works manager of
Canadian Car, were married in 1943"--Did something happen here? Was she fired, did the plant close down, did she just feel the need to move on…it feels like something is missing from this passage, since the article then jumps to her personal life.
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I have no problem referencing it later, but that might look odd given that there are two refs in the lead. Would you move those down also? The reason that I mention the children and polio aspect is that the article includes little information about her personal life, I thought it might help round out
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Yeah, I think the "first" definitely belongs in the intro, although I hate having to put refs in intro paras. Do you think we're safe putting it there but leaving the ref where it is in the later section? Also, note that she was 38 when they married, it's unlikely (especially given the era) that they
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That
Soulsby was a widower with two children. (This helps to answer a pervasive question regarding of all successful women scientists, whether or not they had children, esp. in the 40's and 50's. It doesn't appear that she had children of her own, but she probably would have had a hand in raising his
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As I said, overall the article is nicley written, I do have a few suggestions to improve the flow and have spotted a few other issues. I will list the article as "on hold" for seven days to give you time to perhaps expand the article and to address the concerns/suggestions I have listed below (if you
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I am nominating this little slip of an article for a GA because I think it's a nice biography of an important but understated historical figure. I did some pretty thorough research, and am convinced that there is not much more on her to find than what is listed here; since GA is supposedly especially
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No, thanks for all your great solutions. Re: "first woman aircraft designer in the world," I am not positive that is true -- the only ref I've found is that she was the "world’s first woman chief aeronautical engineer." Not sure if we know one way or the other if there were other female aeronautical
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That she had wanted to be a pilot but as a result of her disability due to polio she couldn't, but that she "insisted on always being a passenger on all test flights. According to her, this was how she could best assess the aircraft's performance." And maybe that "She spent her years of recuperation
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the
Hurricane production line ended, the factory looked for new work and ended up with a contract from the US Navy to build SB2C Helldivers. This production did not go nearly as smoothly, and a continual stream of minor changes from Curtiss-Wright meant that full-scale production took a long time to
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The bit about Ft. William's road connections strays the reader. I would remove this bit leaving behind "For much of the war MacGill's primary task was to streamline operations in the construction of the Hawker
Hurricane, which the factory at Ft. William was selected to build for the RAF. The factory
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Generally, all
Canadian subjects should use mdy conventions. Unless the topic was a military one, then a dmy style would apply. FWIW, I are Canadajian and I know that Wickywacky says either style will apply but I have yet to find any Canadian publications that use the more-British or international
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I would still like to see a bit more information about her polio and personal life incorporated into the article, if at all possible. I think that this information would help fill out the article, and ensure that Elsie's story here is as comprehensive as possible. Please let me know if you have any
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Thanks for the speedy response! It looks like you have addressed most of my concerns above. However, taking a second look I wonder if "Canada Car and
Foundry" is really an appropriate section heading for the content of that section. The missing period was taken care of, (or I just imagined it) but
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At this point the factory looked for new work and ended up with a contract from the US Navy to build SB2C ::Helldivers. This production did not go nearly as smoothly, and a continual stream of minor changes from ::Curtiss-Wright meant that full-scale production took a long time to get started. The
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The firing of MacGill and
Soulsby is covered in the CBC documentary by former factory workers. At the time it was believed Soulsby had treated the Navy brass poorly, but it was later revealed that they had been fired for having an affair. I personally find this fascinating, that one could be fired
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Ah ha! Found a confirmation of that "Although her lame body would not have tolerated childbirth, Elsie MacGill did have a loving husband, E.J. Soulsby, a widower whom she met years earlier at
Fairchild Aircraft, and stepchildren, Anne and John, who were 11 and 14 years old at the time of her 1943
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Ok, all fixed on those items too (not easy in Safari, you can't Find in editable fields -- bug report filed). I think the last "short term" item we can discuss is the heading, how about "Engineering" or "Engineering career"? I also think we should change the last heading to highlight her work in
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haven't found a source for this information yet: "Although unable to pilot the plane due to the weakness of the muscles in her legs, she nevertheless flew on most test flights in the observer's seat. Unfortunately the Maple Leaf did not meet
Commonwealth standards, and was not widely built in
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Reword "MacGill became the first Canadian woman to graduate with a degree in electrical engineering from the University of Toronto in 1927." for clarity (it reads to me like she was the first Canadian woman at University of Toronto in 1927 to earn the degree, but it was all of Canada, right?)
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Actually it's a bit surprising how little is "out there" on McGill, given her place in Canadian aviation history and in the women's rights movement. In fact I was recently at the Toronto Aerospace Museum and there was a display there on women in aviation, and she was missing entirely! Odd.
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has made some nice additions here. Since I haven't had a response, I will add in the two changes I mentioned above, and pass the article. Good job all. The only concern I have is that there are too many pictures. Would it be possible/reasonable to put the two airplane images in a
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I hope that you don't mind my suggestions here, I realize that it is a bit outside the normal GA process, but the article is just so close to being complete... If you feel that I have overstepped my bounds as a GA reviewer here I will rightfully relist the article for another
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I took the time to carefully reference it because a few of the sources disagreed; e.g. on her cause of death. In those cases I wanted to cite what I actually used. There aren't very many sources that even mention her at all, so I had fun tracking her down. cheers, --
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need longer please let me know). If there is a good reason to not complete some of my suggestions let me know and I will adjust my thought process rather than just fail the article. Please let me know on my talk page when you finish or if you have any questions. --
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The bit about her being the first female aircraft designer has not been added to the lead (or anywhere else), nor has the source been corrected. Although I still think that more information could be added, I beleive that the article satisfies the
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yes, thanks for your comprehensive comments! I haven't been able to find much about her personal life beyond what's already here (details are sparse); but will keep looking and plan to work on this in the next couple of days. best, --
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style. When this article was first being developed, almost all articles were using the dmy style until some changes were made in the style guide to accommodate the different styles for North American and international date usage.
870:. The second claim is demonstrable; the aircraft never entered service with any commonwealth nation. That's not a ref, but in this case I'm not sure one is needed, and arguably should be in an article about that aircraft anyway.
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Hey Phoebe, thanks for taking the time to look into this, I wrote this so long ago that it was before I habitually pasted in my refs. There are two claims in the section above, the first about her flying problems came from
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It's definitely in the doc -- I just saw a part of it on the History Channel again (they play it a lot). Any ideas on how to go about generating a ref? You'd think I'd know this, my sis works at the CBC and all...
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and named her "Woman Engineer of the Year," the first time that the Award had gone to a scientist outside the United States”. ("With a metal" distracts from the more important part “and named her woman of the
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I believe I have incorporated all of these... I couldn't find the missing period though. Let me know if I've missed anything. Nice suggestions BTW, these are far more useful than the normal GA cruft I get.
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I am working on referencing this article -- I've found a number of sources, but haven't gone through them to fact-check the statements in this article. Possible sources are listed in the bibliography...
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I'm happy to put it back in if it's mentioned in the CBC documentary; I think I took it out because I couldn't find a reference in anything I looked at and it sounded so anecdotal. best, --
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Nice job on the changes, Maury. I think that those section headings are much better, and I like that you have added some additional information. However, the citation in the article (no.7
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where the Maple Leaf went into production for their air force as it had excellent high-altitude performance for a trainer, important as they commonly operated from 7,000ft." --
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Something like: "MacGill graduated from the University of Toronto in 1927; she was the first Canadian woman to earn a degree in electrical engineering." might be better. (?)
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1602:: "The New York Times issue of November 28, 1909, identifies her as the first woman in the world to design airplanes". So who gets the honours the Yanks or the Canucks?
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instead of the Amelia Earhart Medal, I think that the context of Amelia Earhart gives a pretty good idea why receiving a medal named after her would be a high honor.
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1299:) while it is from the website as the one that is listed above, the no.7 link is far more brief and does not explicitly verify the text. I would change ref 7 to
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Well, do we pass or fail at this point? I can't find anything immediate on the early years that seems solid enough to put in. Everything else is done, I think.
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BTW, you don't need to put refs on every statement, only ones that are likely to be challenged. For instance, there's no need for a ref on whether or not she
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would have had children together regardless of the polio. Given that there are no children together, I'm not sure if we need to mention it either way.
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MacGill was also responsible for the fitting (the planes with?) skis and developing de-icing controls for winter operations. “…reflecting
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Although not required, I would move the citation tag to the outside of the punctuation, for consistency with other Knowledge articles.
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do you think a bibliography of MacGill's published engineering papers would be helpful here? There are eight of them that show up in
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I had originally mentioned this in the article, but the content was removed at some point. Anyone offer an explaination?
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aha, I see in the collections canada link it says she was the "the first woman aircraft designer". --
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The article claims that MacGill "was the world's first woman aircraft designer" , but according to
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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that aspect. If you feel the children part is unnecessary it is probably okay to it leave out. --
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in her bed and in a wheelchair writing articles on aviation and working on aeronautical design."
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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BTW, I'm leaving the link to the medal, I do intend to make an article on that at some point.
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MacGill and Soulsby then moved to Toronto and set up an aeronautical consulting business.
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I would mention in the lead that she was the first woman aircraft designer in the world.
1000:* Saxberg, Kelly (director). (1999). "Rosies of the North." Documentary produced by the
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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1123:? Then the sentence could be more clearly stated as: In 1934, MacGill started work at
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Sure, I think that they could simply be added to the current bibliography section.--
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Macgill’s (book?) "Factors Affecting the Mass Production of Aeroplanes" won her the…
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there is no doubt that Todd created her plane in 1909. Lots of news about it, like
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for "short articles unlikely to make it to FA" I am testing that theory out. :) --
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for something that is now commonplace and even expected (workplace couples).
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To address expansion, a couple of things that might be added to the article:
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I just checked the pages, it's definitely Rosies! I'm fixing the ref now.
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at the bottom of the article? Maybe before the "see also" section?--
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Add (CC&F) after the first instance of Canadian Car and Foundry
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http://www.collectionscanada.ca/05/0509/050950/05095006_e.html
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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patented her flying "boat" in 1912 and built it in 1913.
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1435:. With these two additions I will pass the article. --
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I first came across this article while compiling the
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1566:20:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
1138:”, link Commonwealth to
1057:08:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
973:08:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
935:22:35, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
700:Women's History articles
1752:External links modified
1519:Knowledge:Good articles
1140:Commonwealth of Nations
1072:List of polio survivors
940:Yep, here's your diff:
877:fit skis to the Hurry.
595:Canada-related articles
416:Coverage and accuracy:
1981:Delisted good articles
502:
449:Supporting materials:
377:
171:This article is rated
1446:Additions and GA pass
1433:good article criteria
501:
376:
238:WikiProject Biography
152:Delisted good article
39:good article criteria
1911:regular verification
1801:regular verification
1131:Assistant Engineer.”
332:Aviation WikiProject
85:Good article nominee
1901:After February 2018
1791:After February 2018
1372:the first, though.
995:Rosies of the North
438:Grammar and style:
391:for B-class status:
1955:InternetArchiveBot
1906:InternetArchiveBot
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1125:Fairchild Aircraft
572:WikiProject Canada
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177:content assessment
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27:Elsie MacGill
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18:
17:
1953:
1950:
1925:source check
1904:
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1794:
1788:
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1696:Ottawahitech
1679:Ottawahitech
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1636:Amelie Beese
1634:Then German
1629:Ottawahitech
1604:Ottawahitech
1597:
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1511:
1474:
1472:Hello all,
1471:
1468:bibliography
1449:
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1176:with a medal
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183:WikiProjects
151:
130:
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97:May 29, 2008
84:
83:
48:reassessment
46:
31:
30:
26:
1523:GA criteria
1508:GA delisted
1350:reviewer.--
1331:marriage."
1165:<sp: -->
451:not checked
440:not checked
429:not checked
427:Structure:
418:not checked
407:not checked
344:task forces
43:renominated
1975:Categories
1962:Report bug
1852:Report bug
1581:FWiW Bzuk
1323:children?)
1147:Hurricanes
1066:GA on hold
920:the affair
829:references
338:open tasks
137:column on
1945:this tool
1938:this tool
1835:this tool
1828:this tool
1477:Compendex
295:Biography
256:Biography
202:Biography
127:Main Page
1951:Cheers.—
1841:Cheers.—
388:criteria
354:Aviation
290:Aviation
109:Delisted
1875:my edit
1765:my edit
1707:please
1687:please
1615:please
1499:DO11.10
1460:DO11.10
1456:gallery
1437:DO11.10
1412:DO11.10
1352:DO11.10
1237:DO11.10
1202:DO11.10
1179:year”.)
1088:DO11.10
993:or the
807:on the
718:on the
613:on the
173:B-class
129:in the
68:Process
1730:SusunW
1726:Yankee
1671:Canuck
1665:SusunW
1643:SusunW
1547:WP:GAR
1543:WP:GAN
1531:May 29
1481:phoebe
1378:phoebe
1370:one of
1255:phoebe
1156:public
1062:Review
1046:phoebe
1013:phoebe
962:phoebe
889:phoebe
875:really
855:phoebe
851:Mexico
836:phoebe
586:Canada
577:Canada
533:Canada
179:scale.
141:, and
90:Listed
71:Result
1694:OOps
1673:or a
1539:WP:GA
1422:Maury
1401:Maury
1374:Edit:
1287:Maury
1278:Maury
1213:Maury
1031:Maury
991:this?
981:Maury
932:Maury
907:Maury
879:Maury
1734:talk
1709:ping
1700:talk
1689:ping
1683:talk
1675:Yank
1661:::::
1647:talk
1617:ping
1608:talk
1585:talk
1562:talk
1556:. --
1554:here
1535:2008
1487:talk
1451:Bzuk
1384:talk
1261:talk
1052:talk
1019:talk
1006:IMDB
968:talk
895:talk
867:and
341:and
245:and
65:Date
1919:RfC
1889:to
1809:RfC
1779:to
1549:.
1194:the
1154:the
1100:or
1080:few
1064:--
1011:--
799:Mid
710:Mid
605:Mid
460:add
1977::
1932:.
1927:}}
1923:{{
1822:.
1817:}}
1813:{{
1736:)
1711:me
1702:)
1691:me
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1200:--
1158:’s
1129:an
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