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was not Hedwig but Helwig. I believe Eric has been mostly known as Duke of
Sudermania (Södermanland) in Sweden, as his brother was mostly known mostly as Duke of Finland, and that whatever they have been mostly known as in Swedish literature should reflect on any decision to move this article. Eric's
1510:, as suggested by the originator of this RM, may be best, even though the lower-case parenthetical is not the normal convention. It seems this particular duke didn't follow the normal convention of being the duke of just one province. This seems to be the solution that the Swedish Wiki settled on. –
1673:
doesn't find much to support this, so we seem to be relying on your
Swedish sources, which I can't really verify. I'd feel more comfortable with "Duke of the Swedes" if the term was actually used in the article, and if the Swedish version used that term too. "Duke of the Swedes" seems like a lofty
1670:
598:, and he was widely known by it - almost all chronicles and so forth refer to Duke. This fits extraordinarily well to naming conventions of royalty and nobility, which says that article name should include "Duke of X".
859:
857:
I did not get any hits on the
Chronicle during my first search, but it does appear to be a scholarly translation. Strange then, that they should have gotten something like this wrong. We can, however, compare with
903:, which would make such a title anachronistic in the extreme. English speakers are probably not going to find "Duke of Swealand" any more easy to understand than "Duke of the Swedes", if we must use such a title.
1544:
Svealand, which I choose to call
Swealand in English, is a traditional part of Sweden, one of the three main parts, but has never actually had any political signigicance of its own, nor has there ever
1748:. I don't believe anyone has objected to this; while it may not be everyone's #1 choice, lacking consensus or sufficient sourcing to confirm a specific title, this seems like the best choice for now.
1717:. If the Swedish article is using this title, then that indicates that this is the sort of wording we should be using in the title too. It also matches with out own naming conventions regarding
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1467:. Svealand is defined in terms of the historical provinces and roughly comprises the modern counties of Dalarna, Örebro, Södermanland, Stockholm, Uppsala, Värmland and Västmanland. Is
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841:
I'm not sure what would be the primary meaning. A move to "Duke Eric
Magnusson" or something similar would be fine as well, my main object here is to get rid of the misleading part.
693:
900:
I hardly see the point in moving him from one non-standard title if we move him to one that is even more wrong. "Svealand" appears to be first attested in the seventeenth century
799:
known as "Erik, hertig av Södermanland". He is known as "hertig Erik". The current name is neither reflect an established
English name or a translation of a common Swedish name.
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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class.
1614:
SergeWoodzing seems to have it right in the above posts. I especially want to voice my agreement with the assertion that there are several possible acceptable names.
1538:
is as close as we can get to a correct translation of the
Swedish title he actually had. I still support that option in first place as per my eventual proposal here.
467:
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819:
The proposed target is a dab page, so this is really a multi-move request. Is the Eric in question the primary meaning of "Eric
Magnusson"? The English edition of
689:– Eric was not "Duke of Södermanland". His duchy was made up of Södermanland and parts of Uppland, but his title was simply "Duke"(c.f. Svensk biografiskt Lexikon
1838:
1551:
Eric was at first Duke of the Swedes, which would be a higher title, and later was Duke only of a few spefically designated provinces, by far not of all of them.
1674:
title for someone who temporarily fled to exile in Norway. That term implies to me that they were the Duke of all the provinces, kind of like a "virtual" king.
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692:). The current title only give hits on what appears to be automated translations of books in Swedish and a "book" made up of Knowledge articles in Google books
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1721:. There is no natural disambiguation commonly used in English, therefore we should use parenthetical dab. This option is the most concise. —
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the
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I have dug into the literature, and it appears that Eric's title was "Duke of the Swedes" ("sveahertig"). He is given this title in
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104:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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Good points; I'm not really familiar with naming conventions in this area, nor with
Swedish royalty. So, big picture, start with
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Duchies in Sweden should include
Stegeborg, and also include areas no longer a part of Sweden, such as Finland and Estonia.
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1135:. What is the difference between these two categories? It's not clear. All of the former's subcats are also in the latter.
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would be fine with me. But not "Eric Magnusson (duke)" since there were 2 such (one who later was King), both famous. --
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title was Duke of Swealand, but he only held that for a few years, before becoming duke of all those other areas. --
321:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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would also work by me, as long as there have been no Danish or Norwegian Dukes by that name (that, I do not know).
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Some Swedish provinces have never had dukes, and a few which have had dukes have not had categories created here.
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Thank you for your interest. I will try to answer your questions (numbering them for clarity) as well as I can.
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Consistency with the patronymics: Its more natural to call Magnus Eriksson's father "Erik" instead of "Eric".
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Eric (Magnusson), Duke of Svealand, Södermanland, Dalsland, Västergötland, Värmland and North Halland
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Britannica spells the names of the Swedish royalty "Erik" instead of "Eric" since 1980s or so. (
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If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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The keyword "Duke Eric Magnusson" returns no Ngrams, while "Duke Erik Magnusson" does:
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We have a consensus to move from the current name. Noting that Swedish Knowledge moved
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The number and the quality of relevant English-language Google Books hits for
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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please respond to talk:SergeWoodzing's latest proposed title. — Martin
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is such a long title, we can shorten it to the simple and common name
1650:
So the main question remaining is whether to follow suit and move to
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112:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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Stegeborg was once a dukedom without ever having been a province.
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945:. If that does not suit, "Duke Erik Magnusson" is also OK.
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is not as important to Knowledge as what someone has been
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is deemed to have higher priority, this could be moved to
432:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
1151:
also has the same ten sub-categories, plus an eleventh:
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862:, which calls him "Duke Erik" or "Duke Erik Magnusson".
1463:, Södermanland, Dalsland, Västergötland, Värmland and
1766:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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has ten sub-categories, does that mean there are ten
1697:
for the last time for everyone to agree on a title.
533:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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216:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1459:. The lead sentence of his bio says he was Duke of
943:
Knowledge:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)
648:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1780:. No further edits should be made to this section.
250:This article has not yet received a rating on the
2036:Mid-importance Norse history and culture articles
961:My mistake, you're right about King Eric, son of
1671:Searching English books for "Duke of the Swedes"
823:indexes "Eric Magnusson, Duke of Södermanland".
755:As we've learned (sadly), what someone actually
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2031:Start-Class Norse history and culture articles
445:Template:WikiProject Norse history and culture
8:
1986:Low-importance biography (royalty) articles
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1804:It has been proposed in this section that
1568:Dukes of Swedish provinces should however
634:The following is a closed discussion of a
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763:. An excellent (and very sad) example is
695:. If the current disambiguation page for
1981:Start-Class biography (royalty) articles
1105:as English for historical persons named
1041:I believe the latest agreed proposal is
1101:especially if we capitalize the title.
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1475:? Are there any provinces that he was
1127:. From that I find the two categories
1163:, which is apparently not a province.
404:WikiProject Norse history and culture
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860:The Cambridge history of Scandinavia
653:The result of the move request was:
527:This article is within the scope of
401:This article is within the scope of
311:This article is within the scope of
210:This article is within the scope of
98:This article is within the scope of
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1139:Category:Dukes of Swedish Provinces
1129:Category:Dukes of Swedish Provinces
38:It is of interest to the following
2006:Unknown-importance Norway articles
448:Norse history and culture articles
14:
2056:All WikiProject Middle Ages pages
1829:will list this discussion on the
547:Knowledge:WikiProject Middle Ages
411:related to all activities of the
2041:Start-Class Middle Ages articles
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1787:Requested move 23 September 2024
1063:. Swedish Knowledge titles this
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1441:Category:Dukes of Västergötland
921:Eric, Duke of the Swedes (1282)
567:This article has been rated as
462:This article has been rated as
351:This article has been rated as
122:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
2021:Low-importance Sweden articles
1996:WikiProject Biography articles
1976:Start-Class biography articles
1962:19:54, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
1453:Category:Dukes of Södermanland
1387:Category:Dukes of Södermanland
1354:Category:Dukes of Östergötland
1145:? No, Sweden has 25 provinces.
594:Eric had a substantive title,
125:Template:WikiProject Biography
1:
1071:– "of the Swedes" seems less
1067:, which Google translates to
880:Eric, Duke of Swealand (1282)
711:) 09:49, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
541:and see a list of open tasks.
325:and see a list of open tasks.
224:and see a list of open tasks.
146:This article is supported by
2051:Start-Class history articles
2026:All WikiProject Sweden pages
1938:(restricted post-1970 books)
1841:). Please base arguments on
1719:parenthetical disambiguation
1592:to specify what he was duke
1572:include those 3 dukedoms. --
1109:is also more normal here. --
627:Requested move 19 April 2017
617:22:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
331:Knowledge:WikiProject Sweden
230:Knowledge:WikiProject Norway
110:contribute to the discussion
2016:Start-Class Sweden articles
2011:WikiProject Norway articles
2001:Start-Class Norway articles
1991:Royalty work group articles
1153:Category:Dukes of Stegeborg
1149:Category:Dukedoms of Sweden
1133:Category:Dukedoms of Sweden
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1449:Eric, Duke of Södermanland
1411:Category:Dukes of Värmland
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821:The Chronicle of Duke Erik
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683:Eric, Duke of Södermanland
573:project's importance scale
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1524:My word what an analysis!
1399:Category:Dukes of Uppland
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1548:been a Duke of Swealand.
1536:Eric, Duke of the Swedes
1043:Eric, Duke of the Swedes
967:Eric, Duke of the Swedes
677:05:50, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
641:Please do not modify it.
608:WikiProject class rating
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1479:the duke of? Maybe, as
1366:Category:Dukes of SkĂĄne
1333:Category:Dukes of Närke
1119:12:14, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
1093:I have no objection to
1085:02:45, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
1065:Erik Magnusson (hertig)
1055:10:28, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
1033:06:03, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
937:If you are thinking of
749:17:34, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
530:WikiProject Middle Ages
1845:, and keep discussion
1471:an actual title, or a
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622:Move to Eric Magnusson
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28:This article is rated
1936:Duke "Eric Magnusson"
1932:Duke "Erik Magnusson"
1910:Erik Magnusson (duke)
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1534:has explained above,
1530:Most importantly, as
1508:Eric Magnusson (duke)
1451:is currently in both
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1069:Erik Magnusson (Duke)
965:. I do not object to
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659:Eric Magnusson (duke)
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101:WikiProject Biography
1874:requested move/dated
1862:subst:requested move
1843:article title policy
1839:closing instructions
1833:current discussions
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430:project page
424:Kalmar Union
402:
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211:
147:
99:
40:WikiProjects
1895:direct move
1887:current log
1858:Please use
1778:move review
1634:Conclusions
1418:Västmanland
1274:Hälsingland
1253:Gästrikland
884:svea hertig
646:move review
544:Middle Ages
491:Middle Ages
420:Scandinavia
409:WikiProject
30:Start-class
1970:Categories
1891:target log
1319:Norrbotten
1283:Härjedalen
1073:WP:concise
737:Relisting.
716:Relisting.
434:discussion
418:, both in
1878:directly.
1695:Relisting
1546:literally
1174:Province
1157:Stegeborg
1039:Proposal:
1025:SmokeyJoe
719:— Martin
703:instead.
426:in 1397.
119:Biography
59:Biography
1847:succinct
1743:Support
1712:Support
1665:move to
1618:Andejons
1532:Andejons
1461:Svealand
1406:Värmland
1310:Medelpad
1301:Lappland
1292:Jämtland
1232:Dalsland
1211:Bohuslän
1202:Blekinge
1001:Andejons
998:Relisted
949:Andejons
907:Andejons
866:Andejons
803:Andejons
769:actually
761:known as
705:Andejons
590:Untitled
1835:subpage
1750:wbm1058
1676:wbm1058
1512:wbm1058
1493:wbm1058
1473:neolism
1394:Uppland
1373:SmĂĄland
1262:Halland
1241:Gotland
1220:Dalarna
1077:wbm1058
1061:Comment
774:highest
665:Andy W.
600:Suedois
571:on the
466:on the
355:on the
1913:– Per
1884:Links:
1726:Insert
1662:––or––
1177:Dukes
328:Sweden
319:Sweden
275:Sweden
227:Norway
218:Norway
177:Norway
36:scale.
1866:. Do
1851:civil
1361:SkĂĄne
1340:Ă–land
1328:Närke
1021:Close
825:Srnec
413:North
1958:talk
1917:and
1870:use
1849:and
1754:talk
1732:Here
1703:talk
1680:talk
1622:talk
1602:talk
1578:talk
1516:talk
1497:talk
1455:and
1131:and
1115:talk
1107:Erik
1103:Eric
1081:talk
1051:talk
1045:. --
1029:talk
1011:talk
1007:MSGJ
975:talk
969:. --
953:talk
929:talk
911:talk
892:talk
870:talk
829:talk
807:talk
782:talk
745:talk
727:talk
723:MSGJ
709:talk
672:talk
655:Move
407:, a
108:and
1868:not
1826:bot
1812:to
1808:be
1770:.
1658:or
1590:not
1570:not
1555:or
1506:Or
1487:or
1477:not
919:OK
797:not
757:was
657:to
563:Low
458:Mid
347:Low
246:???
1972::
1960:)
1952:—
1921:.
1907:→
1893:•
1889:•
1876:}}
1872:{{
1864:}}
1860:{{
1853:.
1823:A
1756:)
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734:--
725:·
713:--
685:→
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638:.
156:).
62::
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436:.
359:.
254:.
116:.
42::
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