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1530:, full texts of which were no longer copied and thus were lost. It was one of the most popular compendia in medieval libraries" (emphasis mine). This is referenced to: Barney, Stephen A.; Lewis, W. J.; Beach, J. A.; Berghof, O. (2006). The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville (1st ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-511-21969-6. I think that "superseded" and "supplanted" are pretty equivalent, particularly since the full texts were lost and no longer available, whereas
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I have concluded the review and am passing the article: I think that for the next stage (FA level) the article needs to give more of an analytical account of the
Etymologiae, including their social, historical and literary context, and their place in the history of encyclopedias and knowledge, and it
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all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow
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the preservation of classical texts that it largely supplanted than for the insight it offers into medieval thought." In other words, it is agreed by everyone that it did the supplanting; it is not at all agreed that scholars recognise its importance for that fact. The opposite may well be (I think
996:
It definitely is an improvement. I think it still could do with some fleshing out as far as sources allow - the section is mostly about
Isidore and not so much about the intellectual milieu of the time or about the function of encyclopedias. Why is Pliny the Elder not linked anywhere, and why is it
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I think this article is of vital importance to wikipedia, being about one of the earliest efforts to undertake a project similar to our own. I am very thankful that someone has taken the time to bring it up to this level of quality. It should honestly be a FA, given its importance to our own sphere
964:
I missed a little bit of historical context surrounding its production - how and why was it made? What gave
Isidore the idea or inspiration? Who paid for it? How long did it take? Who helped him? Why were in that period interested in encyclopedias like this? What was Spain like in this period, and
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by Barney and others into modern
English, and it is cited many times, so it is placed in the Bibliography. I have used the sfn/Harvard templates to automate links between the short form references and the book, so like the other references it is now possible to navigate directly to online sources,
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The citation format is odd. The notes include both short and long references, but one book is separated out into the bibliography. I think the best solution is to take all long citations into the bibliography and use only short citations in the inline references - possibly excepting web-only
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There are many paragraphs that have no citations throughout the article - but especially in the contents section. I understand why the contents it section might not feel necessary to cite, since it summarizes the actual book - but outside of that section all paragraphs need at least one
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I think the section on manuscript is too short, and not coherent enough as prose. I actually don't understand what it says - untill the reference to Codex Gigas - and even then it is not very informative overall, but seems to assume a lot of background knowledge.
1582:, which is pretty much the type of rudeness that BRD is meant to prevent. The modern scholars, according to the article (and references 48, 47, and 4) all imply that the main longterm impact of the work is the reflection into the medieval mindset.
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It says right in the current text (which the reverting editor says he wrote himself) that "hrough the Middle Ages
Etymologiae was the textbook most in use, regarded so highly as a repository of classical learning that, in a great measure,
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Pope John Paul is considering naming St. Isidore of
Seville the patron saint of Internet users and computer programmers, Vatican sources said on Tuesday. Saint Isidore was nominated two years ago but the Holy See has yet to make a final
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is) true, namely that scholars are incredibly interested in the fragments it preserved. If you want to maintain that they aren't interested in the fragments but in the fact of supplanting, you definitely need sources for that.
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Hmm, I found another source stating that
Solinus' work was also an encyclopedia, so maybe that claim is not true. Definitely I think the article could use some material on the Etymologiae's place in the history of
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Cool. There is a book by Andrew Brown on the history of encyclopedias, it mentions Pliny and
Knowledge - but there is no snippet view so I can't see if it mentions the Etymologiae too. But it probably does.
1026:
This made me wonder if his citations to Pliny actually are to the
Natural History? That would be interesting I think. Also do we know anything about whether Pliny's natural history was a direct inspiration?
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The lead is not an adequate summary of the article. It should include material about the structure of the contents of the encyclopedia - its books and general format. And also its manuscript and printing
1329:
Thanks for your improvements. I will be traveling the next three days and will probably not be able to review the changes until Friday, so you can take your time with the improvements, keep up the good
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I have never made a suggestion for a
Knowledge article before so apologies if this is the wrong way to point this out, but Tertullian was a Christian author, not a Pagan one as it says in the article.
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I still think it is odd not to move the long refs into the bibliography just because they are only cited once - I don't know any style guides that do that. But if this is how you like it then ok.
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The section on "contents" is quite odd in the way that it is broken in to short sections on each book. Maybe a different organization might make sense, one without a header for each book?
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not mentioned that his was the only other previous encyclopedia? Not something I will fail the article for, but something I think can be worked on for subsequent levels of improvement.
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I liked that edit of yours. I looks to me as if Brehaut can provide some analytical content in general which I think will be needed for further improvements beyond the GA level.
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Yes this was more for something more general about the Etymologiae's place in the history of the encyclopedic genre. Here is a link to another work that may be useful
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on Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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of interest as encyclopedists. So thanks for that! However the vitality means we can't skimp on quality, and there are some things that can definitely be improved:
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appears to have captured a citogenesis in the wild! I've been waiting for ages to see one. I'm not sure that this one stands being pinned to the board though?
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I went to update the sentence with this extra information but before saving, concluded that the whole thing is off-topic, and furthermore violates
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Diplè : nos copistes placent ce signe dans les livres des gens d'Eglise pour séparer ou pour signaler les citations tirées des Saintes Ecritures."
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The single quotation mark is traced to Ancient Greek practice, adopted and adapted by monastic copyists. In his seventh century encyclopedia, The
1538:. That two separate and very different editors disagree with the reverting editor does not appear to have occurred to him. So...let's discuss.
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Ok, why not, said that Isidore fits into the classical tradition (i.e. not observational research), Brehaut is certainly right on that point.
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1654:) " ⟩ Diplé: our copyists place this sign in the books of the people of the Church, to separate or to indicate the quotations drawn from the
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also needs I think to cite a little bit broader in the literature. It is however well within the GA criteria and deserves to be promoted.
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Pliny's was by far the largest (and most influential). The Etym.'s Books XII, XIII and XIV are all based largely on the Natural History.
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was there anything special about the period and historical context that favored the production? That kind of thing, I think is missing.
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Even though the source doesn't say so, would it be reasonable to say "In Volume 1 of his seventh ..."? Is "Diplé" the correct word?--
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where available. I hope you'll agree this elegantly solves the formatting question and provides the "quality" we all desire.
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it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
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it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
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because it doesn't summarise body content. I moved the citations to the article about Isidore, where it belongs. --
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images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
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the prose is clear and concise, it respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct; and
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Dans le chapitre sur les symboles graphiques, Isidore évoque la diplè (chevron, en grec) : " : -->
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Please maintain politeness. What the text, and the cited source, does not say is that "Scholars
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Yes, contents and 'plot' sections are generally agreed to be self-citing. I've cited the rest.
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it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
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Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each.
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Wikilinked Pliny, and mentioned the Natural History! And one or two other links too.
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Noted. This is outside the GA criteria but I will try to find a sensible resolution.
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Added a Context section, which may begin to hint at your excellent questions.
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Thank you very much for the review, and for the suggestions for the future.
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This article looks incredibly interesting, and I will be happy to review it.
756:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
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it superseded the use of the individual works of the classics themselves
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There is a reference based on a (respected) French magazine source at
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My message is considerably more polite than the one you left on
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the standard process for discussing disagreement on content
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I've added a mention of the medieval mindset in the lead.
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Much nicer in terms of readability and layout I think.
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94:WikiProjects
52:
43:please do so
31:
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26:
1724:Citogenesis
1702:(in French)
1638:Etymologiae
1628:Etymologiae
922:Etymologiae
889:references.
750:transcluded
166:Middle Ages
113:Middle Ages
27:Etymologiae
1787:Categories
1680:References
1502:Tertullian
1368:Assessment
703:Authorship
689:GA toolbox
537:Philosophy
526:philosophy
477:Literature
472:Philosophy
37:under the
1743:decision.
1699:L'Express
1279:citation.
762:Reviewer:
726:Templates
717:Reviewing
682:GA Review
853:history.
821:Comments
775:contribs
731:Criteria
649:Archives
481:Medieval
343:inactive
317:inactive
84:GA-class
47:reassess
1766:wp:LEAD
1652:chevron
1474:snunɐɯ·
1470:·maunus
1336:snunɐɯ·
1332:·maunus
1316:snunɐɯ·
1312:·maunus
1285:snunɐɯ·
1281:·maunus
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1138:·maunus
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1075:snunɐɯ·
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786:·maunus
564:on the
447:on the
193:on the
1706:5 June
1584:Risker
1576:Wetman
1540:Risker
1310:Great.
870:Done.
765:Maunus
90:scale.
54:Review
1648:diplé
1330:work!
752:from
420:Latin
411:Latin
383:Latin
278:Books
218:Books
1774:talk
1755:talk
1708:2020
1668:talk
1602:talk
1588:talk
1566:talk
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806:talk
769:talk
263:and
1650:(a
1580:BRD
556:Mid
439:Low
185:Mid
49:it.
1789::
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