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1690:- just to be clear, I imagine a nomination or move of those other panhandles will quickly follow this RM, so I don't think we need to be concerned about consistency here. Do you have an objection to this move in principle, other than the consistency issue? If not, I think we should just go ahead, it would be IMHO unproductive to start all over again just for the sake of including those other cases. Cheers —
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The current map is just awful; the drawing is poor and I don't even think it's accurate. We really need to form a consensus on a new one. This issue has been under discussion since 2005. I almost just put the map at the right on the page until I read
Hokeman's comment. So, has anyone got any ideas on
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One problem showing up then was that at least some networks announced that polls were closed in
Florida (forgetting that the far west was in Central Time Zone, causing polls to open and close 1 hour later there). It probably looked odd to some people that Florida, in addition to having an Atlantic
1813:- absolutely slam dunk, given the usage in reliable sources. The above opposition has no basis in policy or guidelines whatsoever, so should be largely disregarded. The moving of other panhandles can quickly follow this one too, so consistency isn't really a valid reason to hold this up. Cheers —
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all capitalise "panhandle", an ngram review of these would indicate that six should use lowercase, while two give no ngram result out of the eleven articles - indicating that other articles also need to be reviewed. "Other stuff" arguments are double-edged. We should not be consistently incorrect.
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I would imagine the usage for the lowercase is perhaps the same as the uppercase. There's the applied name with
Panhandle as the demographics and also the applied geographical name where a lowercase is sufficient. You could argue panhandle is a valid alternative but the region names are never in
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Exceptions are allowed. Looking at the n-grams for this page and the articles listed below, uppercasing and lowercasing are close but, importantly, uppercasing comes out ahead in all cases. Especially if looked at throughout the decades, all have more uppercasing than lowercasing, which rides
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How did they define the
Pandhandle so precisely (down to the specific counties)? Is there some geographic separator, like a river? Or a cultural, demographic divide? Because some of the eastern counties of the Panhandle look very much in the Peninsula (from a pure visual perspective).
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There are clear exceptions to that guideline, including this one per comments above and below. When all the uses of 'Panhandle' in article titles which can be n-grammed show up with ngrams favoring uppercase (especially looking at past usage) then the exception-improves-the-rule.
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The map is excellent. All the critics need to go out and enjoy the weather. I am removing the citation needed comment. What citation is needed? All one need do is look at the names on a map for the counties on the space on the map, and thus discover for themselves.
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You know what I mean by descriptive, the panhandle shape is what gives the area its name. The name seems to be a proper name, that's what that section of
Florida is named, and related uppercased names are presented by The Grid in the comment below.
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guideline. In contrast, those opposing cite consistency with similar articles, but generally do not object to moving similar articles to lowercase as well, which would maintain consistency. I therefore put more weight to the supporting arguments.
1395:- we don't do that). Hence, why I would exclude the two local news sources. I would agree that the WP and NYT are generally reliable. If one reads my response above, one would see that neither is consistent in their capitalisation of
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not really. I do think that such an RM might fail, and then we'd need to revisit this one, hence my preference for closing this and then making a new nomination with them all bundled (so the issue can be decided together).
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If anyone from the fucking panhandle knows what that means :p the question above was a good one; the name should have a section describing origins etc, for those of us lucky enough not to live there.
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1861:, these were aberrations. The panhandle voted Democratic from 1932 to 1960. By contrast, the other parts of Florida, were being regularly won by Republicans at the presidential level as early as
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I find it perplexing to say the sources are not independent because they happen to be headquartered in the same region. That's assuming all the writers are from the area which I highly doubt.
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I'm removing the map after the edit I made. I asked for the map to be redone, as the easternmost eight counties are definitely not the
Panhandle. The eastmost county in the map is where
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per Elli and the comment I made above showing examples of other regions in
Florida. Additionally, I am a bit confused on what Cinderella157 is trying to state. I thought Ngram was a
1278:. I'm not sure what sources go into the near-50% non-capitalization shown in your graph, but the most reliable secondary sources in 2023 are all clearly capitalizing "Panhandle".
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1303:. The Tallahassee Democrat and Pensacola News Journal are not reasonably independent of the topic as they are headquartered in the region and it is not consistently capped in
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coast, has part of the state in
Central Time Zone. (The Eastern/Central boundary runs along the Georgia/Alabama border, then cuts thru Florida on its way to Gulf of Mexico.)
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1469:, descriptive names are common names (ie not proper names) and therefore they are not normally capitalised except perhaps for distinction - but we don't do that either per
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686:(or any other type of pan that I know of), and the "Panhandle" doesn't look like a handle for such a pan either. The best that can be said it that is a geographic term (
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reasoning and exception quality into commonsense territory. Doesn't seem to be any ngrams for
Connecticut Panhandle but sources and maps seem to say its a "thing".
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only reasonably refers to the subject region, what other context is there? Proper noun|names are capitalise with near universal consistency regardless of context.
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I think this is a good question. It is not immediately obvious why it is called a panhandle. I for one used to think that this phrase referred to the peninsula. (
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Agreed. I would have thought this is fairly slamdunk. I can't imagine an objective RM would conclude anythign other than that we should move it. —
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deal with naming patterns and topic-specific conventions on article titles. They do not touch on capitalisation. This is dealt with separately ate
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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are generally reliable sources. Names for regions are usually interchangeable with capitalization as it comes down to the context. –
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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A new section on the climate in the
Florida Panhandle would be very interesting. Especially a comparison to the rest of Florida.
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sentence case. (e.g., Big Bend, Emerald Coast, Space Coast, Treasure Coast, First Coast, Forgotten Coast, Gold Coast, etc) –
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is, and I can tell you that's much more northeastern Florida, and that isn't even the northeast Florida BOUNDARY. Likewise,
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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is currently shown on my browser, but that image for some reason only has Escambia and Santa Rosa counties highlighted.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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1391:, writers closely associated with a subject are prone to over-capitalisation for emphasis or distinction (see
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1790:—This is a no-brainer. A huge majority of reliable sources need to cap it for us to consider doing that. See
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110702072125/http://www.nwfdailynews.com/opinion/owns-41394-coast-don.html
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1897:, it remained solidly Democratic, while other parts of the state voted for George C. Petersen and in
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only capitalise it about 50% of the time. It comes nowhere near the threshold for caitalisation per
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Names for regions are usually interchangeable with capitalization as it comes down to the context
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I wouldn't call any of the eastern counties the Panhandle at all. I'd redraw the map boundaries.
1399:. While these sources are not definative, their inconsistent capitalisation indicates that (per
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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571:. Whoever put Jefferson county in there must be smoking some of that good ole Panhandle weed.--
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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1905:, it stuck with Burns. This section generally and this sentence specifically are dubious.
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1403:) capitalisation is not necessary and therefore we should not be capitalising the terms.
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The map I see at the right is great, but it isn't the same map that is displaying on the
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961:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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he most reliable secondary sources in 2023 are all clearly capitalizing "Panhandle".
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consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources
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It is only opinion (not substantiated) that the newsorg sources being cited are
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321:. To help assess the quality and importance of geography articles, please see:
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967:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
857:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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Requested articles/Social sciences/Geography, cities, regions and named places
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in 1908 and parts of Florida panhandle voted for Herbert Hoover in his
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a lone move of this as it would not be consistent with other states (
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I've often wondered that. The map of Florida looks nothing like a
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and that this is a high threshold - much, much more than the
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is not (per ngram). This tells us that capitalisation is not
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http://www.nwfdailynews.com/opinion/owns-41394-coast-don.html
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those counties west of the Chattahoochee/Apalachicola River
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I think most people looking at Florida would think the
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http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/office_closures.htm
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article as well as *all* of the other panhandles at
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Geography articles with topics of unclear notability
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1407:is a curios statement (without substantiation). If
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1254:: "Florida Panhandle" is capitalized by both the
1448:per discussion and common and descriptive name.
1597:ahead for this article indicated by the ngram.
1419:and that we should not capitalise the term per
426:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs of places
957:This message was posted before February 2018.
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1891:The People of Lawmaking in Florida 1822-2019
1270:. It also matches the capitalization of our
1301:the most reliable secondary sources in 2023
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1591:are capitalized in Knowledge (XXG)
663:and with some kitchenware, maroon!
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1949:Mid-importance geography articles
1877:, R. Everette Burchard (1933) of
931:. Please take a moment to review
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1828:The discussion above is closed.
1751:) 17:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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563:When I lived up there -
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1241:
1138:Mattdaviesfsic
1087:
1085:
1054:
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1039:requested move
1033:
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1007:
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943:Added archive
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1859:1928 victory
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1338:WP:LOWERCASE
1316:
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1251:
1163:— Preceding
1133:
1132:
1113:
1086:
1057:
1055:
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983:source check
962:
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873:source check
852:
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816:
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799:
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789:
766:— Preceding
763:
746:128.63.16.20
740:— Preceding
736:
715:
710:
709:
705:
703:
681:
666:
643:
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542:
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482:Anchors are
479:
431:
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51:WikiProjects
1841:The phrase
1252:Oppose move
1189:, overall,
1122:– robertsky
1049:move review
684:Cooking pan
553:Gainesville
41:Start-class
1923:Categories
1885:(1953) of
1873:(1929) of
1618:Randy Kryn
1579:Randy Kryn
1562:Randy Kryn
1490:Randy Kryn
1467:Randy Kryn
1450:Randy Kryn
1134:Relisting.
1020:Report bug
910:Report bug
669:Elephant53
405:Notability
354:Listed at
1737:guideline
1539:WP:NCCAPS
1417:necessary
1324:However,
1317:described
1199:WP:NCCAPS
1118:permalink
1097:WP:NCCAPS
1003:this tool
996:this tool
893:this tool
886:this tool
786:Etymology
688:Panhandle
226:Geography
217:geography
173:Geography
1792:MOS:CAPS
1773:Dicklyon
1756:The Grid
1742:The Grid
1719:contribs
1675:contribs
1595:slightly
1585:states:
1583:MOS:CAPS
1543:Dicklyon
1535:MOS:CAPS
1515:The Grid
1421:MOS:CAPS
1401:MOS:CAPS
1385:The Grid
1369:The Grid
1195:MOS:CAPS
1177:contribs
1165:unsigned
1101:MOS:CAPS
1062:MOS:CAPS
1009:Cheers.—
899:Cheers.—
768:unsigned
742:unsigned
706:southern
661:Oklahoma
640:the name
585:Dogru144
545:Live Oak
514:Comments
1907:Mpen320
1855:Calhoun
1851:roots,"
1815:Amakuru
1811:Support
1788:Support
1706:Amakuru
1692:Amakuru
1509:Comment
1280:PK-WIKI
1231:Amakuru
1212:PK-WIKI
1191:sources
1187:PK-WIKI
1169:PK-WIKI
933:my edit
823:my edit
794:Fortuna
760:Climate
609:TampAGS
573:Hokeman
536:The map
499:before.
377:Infobox
335:Cleanup
253:on the
148:on the
121:Florida
70:Florida
1802:(talk)
1733:Oppose
1661:, and
1639:Oppose
1446:Oppose
1389:WP:SSF
1387:, per
711:handle
557:Mike H
529:Mike H
521:Menchi
308:Assess
47:scale.
1336:(see
1334:WP:AT
1197:(and
1058:moved
626:Danny
433:Stubs
419:Photo
1911:talk
1899:1964
1895:1960
1863:1948
1819:talk
1797:Tony
1777:talk
1762:talk
1748:talk
1739:. –
1715:talk
1711:Elli
1696:talk
1686:Elli
1671:talk
1667:Elli
1622:talk
1603:talk
1566:talk
1547:talk
1537:and
1521:talk
1494:talk
1479:talk
1454:talk
1429:talk
1375:talk
1360:and
1346:talk
1328:and
1313:here
1309:this
1305:this
1284:talk
1266:and
1258:and
1235:talk
1220:talk
1207:talk
1173:talk
1142:talk
1126:talk
1109:talk
1099:and
1078:talk
776:talk
750:talk
724:talk
696:talk
673:talk
650:talk
630:talk
613:talk
589:talk
480:Tip:
438:See
424:See
410:See
396:See
382:See
368:See
340:See
325:and
299:and
295:See
1765:)
1524:)
1378:)
1340:).
1307:or
1201:).
1120:).
977:RfC
947:to
867:RfC
837:to
716:pan
391:Map
245:Mid
140:Mid
115:FAQ
1925::
1913:)
1881:,
1869:,
1821:)
1794:.
1779:)
1721:)
1717:|
1698:)
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1431:)
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1237:)
1222:)
1179:)
1175:•
1144:)
1131:—
1103:.
1091:→
1080:)
1041:.
990:.
985:}}
981:{{
880:.
875:}}
871:{{
778:)
752:)
726:)
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675:)
652:)
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319:}}
315:{{
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329:.
311::
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152:.
118:.
53::
20:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
