1215:
article in the first place, in 2005! I checked the "What links here" on the Caron article to see what other
Knowledge (XXG) articles say, but of the ones I checked, they're either referring to a different man of the same name, or if they're talking about the 1600s individual, when I look in article history it appears that you were usually the one that added most of the Caron mentions around Knowledge (XXG), and again, without any sources. I've tried doing Google searches on Caron, but there's not much out there. I did find this, which says that there's little known about him, and that he's Dutch, not French.
1141:? It's not enough to quote what the author says about himself, or just give a list of works, you actually have to find sources that talk about the author and his credibility. I'm sorry if I sound a bit exasperated here, but why do we have to keep going over this? You get challenged about a source, then you create an article about the author as though it proves the author's notability and credibility, then I tag the article as needing actual third-party sources. I feel like I need a macro. How many times do we need to repeat this cycle? --
1318:"As the author notes in his excellent study, no single book to date has explored the French-Japanese interaction from the treaties that opened Japan in the 1850s to the turn of the century. Indeed, one has to go back to Meron Medzini's French Policy in Japan During the Closing Years of the Tokugawa Regime (Harvard East Asian Monographs, 1971) and Mark Erickson's doctoral dissertation, "The Tokugawa Bakufu and Leon Roches" (Hawaii, 1978), to find any mention of French-Japanese relations in the emergence of Modern Japan."
1026:
over quite a period of time. I don't think the Arbcom restrictions allow you to tag at will articles I create. Think about it; you are just doing everything you can to damage my contributions, even when outside Arbcom restrictions: you first claimed falsely that this article dealt with
Medieval History, then you argued for it to be deleted purely and simply, and now you are just prolonging this approach by endlessly trying to have tags left on it without proper cause.
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661:). I could point to many other points of connection between this latest creation of PHG, and the problematic edits that led to the ArbCom case, primarily via the topic area of Nestorian Christianity. However, PHG is not currently restricted from editing articles that deal with Asian Christianity, nor is he restricted from editing articles related to intercultural interactions. And I hope that that will not become necessary. --
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civil that we ooze sugar and chocolate for a while? Or maybe if we all tried to focus only on the content itself and let the discussion of other editors fall by the wayside for a bit? It would be nice to see everyone learn to co-habitate on
Knowledge (XXG), even when they need to completely disagree with each other. :)
707:
I think
Elonaka is overreacting to every edit of PHG. PHG is not prohibited to editing all history related article. I appreciate his contributions and especially photos from Musee Guimet. I saw your speedy tag on this article whose rationale seems to me very unreasonable. Anyway, I think this article can be merged into
770:
I agree with
Appletrees. Most of the main article is a timeline and images, much of which was copy/pasted here and is still duplicated in the main article. The history of France-Japan relations is primarily in the 19th and 20th centuries, as before that there wasn't much to talk about. If the main
706:
I agree with Srnec's opinion. Of course, every history can trace back to its old history. However, the article is clearly neither about "Mongol" nor "medieval history". Japan was intact from Mongol empire's invasions and the article describes the relationship between France and Japan in 19th century.
1214:
claim. There doesn't appear to be a source for this statement? I checked the Caron article, but couldn't find a source there either. Then I checked deeper, and found that the Caron article didn't have any sources at all. Then I looked deeper, and found that you were the one that created the Caron
1025:
I think you are allowed to put tags in an article if you have specific issues. If you don't, the tags should be removed. You can check citations anytime you wish, but I don't think the tags should remain in until someone finally checks them. The article will continue to expand, but that will stretch
960:
Can I give anyone a tea? Elonka, PHG did smile after saying harassment, so hopefully it was a joke. PHG, please remember that humor sometimes comes across really poorly in print. This has been a rather tense situation for weeks now (months even?), so maybe we should all try being so ridiculously
1315:
Indeed, having now read the very approving review of the book F. G. Notehelfer in the
Journal of Japanese Studies, Vol. 26, No. 1 (Winter, 2000), pp. 234-236 (I can send copies to whoever would like), I would think a fairly essential source. Here is a little quote that also gives some other likely
1040:
As near as I can tell, the vast majority of this article comes from the works of "Christian Polak". However, the publications are non-standard, evidently some kind of "Chamber of
Commerce" work. They don't appear to have an ISBN, and I have as yet been unable to locate any libraries which carry
838:
article summary-style, with summaries and timelines, which can then branch into the articles about the various centuries, each between 30k to 60k large. I guess this will take about 2 to 3 months before this is completed, so please everybody give me time to complete and perfect this architecture.
1124:
article, but despite the fact that you say he has significant credentials, you haven't actually added any solid third-party sources that confirm this. There's the Terry
Bennett quote, but I checked that quote in context in Terry Bennett's book, and I'm not impressed. Didn't we already have this
1044:
If some other editor has access to these publications, and can verify both that they are reliable, and that the information in the
Knowledge (XXG) article accurately reflects what is in the publications, I would have no trouble with removing the tags. But until then, I would like to see the tags
604:. As part of the restrictions, he is banned from working in the topic area of medieval or ancient history. There is currently information in this article which skates the edge of this restriction, though there is disagreement as to whether or not the restriction has actually been violated.
607:
Accordingly, I recommend a "wait and see" approach. I have tagged the article as having potentially questionable sources, but recommend that we give PHG some time to flesh the article out a bit more before we discuss any further action, such as sending the article to AfD.
771:
article does grow too large, it can easily be split again, but right now things seem topheavy, where there's all this detail in the 19th century article, and practically nothing in the main article. So I'd rather see the main article expanded first. --
1261:"Si on peut dire de lui qu'il était français, il est probablement le seul français qui ait visité le Japon sous l'ancien régime." Diderot ; le XVIIIe siecle en europe et au Japon, Colloque franco-japonais ... - Page 222 by Hisayasu Nakagawa - 1988
630:
I think this needs to be said: one single reference to the late 16th century does not count as skating the edge of his restrictions. It is clearly not ancient/medieval. As to the merits or accuracy of this article otherwise I have no comment.
1250:
Three years is a long time ago, and I don't have all my books from that period. Google Books will give you however several quotes about his French origins (or him being French), and about being the first person of French origin in Japan
744:
definitely would benefit from being set in prose instead of a timeline, merging would more than double the size of the article, long past where we'd normally split. I think the solution is more attention on the parent article.
1297:
chunks of which are easily available on Google books, would seem to be an important mainstream source for this article. I will add it as further reading section but suggest it should be an important source for the article too.
1264:"En 1635 ce fut le tour de François Caron, sur lequel nous voudrions nous arrêter un moment, ... comme le premier Français venu au Japon et à Edo." Histoire de Tokyo - Page 67 by Noël Nouët - Tokyo (Japan) - 1961 - 261 pages
874:"He started a new subpage that is related to medieval history: User:PHG/France-Japan relations (19th century) (though the title says 19th century, there is clearly a section on medieval history within the article)"
1267:"A titre de premier représentant de notre langue au Japon, cet homme méritait ici une petite place" (Bulletin de la Maison franco-japonaise by Maison franco-japonaise (Tokyo, Japan) - Japan - 1927 Page 127)
855:
Please stop with the accusations of harassment. You are under ArbCom sanctions, and for good reason. Reviewing your contributions to prevent further damage to
Knowledge (XXG), is not harassment. --
1176:
Dear Elonka, these articles were deemed "Keeps" by the community, i.e. proper articles to have on Knowledge (XXG), so I don't see at all why you have to express any "exasperation". Best regards.
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I bought the 2001 book in Japan, and the 2005 book in a library in Paris. They are published by Hachette-Fujingaho, the Japanese subsidiary of the highly respected French publishing house
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claim in the "Context" section of this article, especially the part about how he was the first person of French origin to set foot in Japan, since that's a
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that are still in the process of being cleaned up, which also have very close connections to this topic (for example, the duplicated articles of
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826:(lots of interraction in the aeronautical and artistic fields in particular, and of course modern post-war relations). I will also create a
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lets I am again harassed :-)). So, I would suggest it is quite premature to consider merging stuff. In parallel, I plan to boost the main
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Most other sources just lead back to the Knowledge (XXG) article. He does appear to have been a real person, who was associated with the
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PHG, I encourage you to be scrupulous about sourcing the claims that you make in this article, so that no further action is required.
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them. Worldcat does have Christian Polak listed, but not the works that are currently being used for references in this article.
1230:, and have to wonder, how deep does this rabbit hole go? Can you actually provide a source for this "first in Japan" claim? --
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because the two articles have not fully developed yet and having two articles on the same subject is a redundancy. --
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Reviewing my contributions is totally fine, Elonka, be my guest. What is not fine is to make false statements (
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Srnec, I think if you dig a bit deeper, you'll see that this topic is much much closer to the subject of the
1088:(which has been re-affirmed by Arbcom), I think you should remove the tags unless you have specific issues.
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The citations still need to be checked. You said you needed a few months to work on it. Are you done? --
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Just to share with you all some of my plans here, I have quite a bunch of important information on
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This is quite funny Elonka. It takes quite a good dose of fact-bending to write that 13th century
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Could someone remove the tags from this article if there are no specific issues on the sources?
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and generated a primary source report from that era, but I'm thinking more and more about
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remain on the article. PHG, may I ask where you yourself acquired these publications? --
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Well, the intro and contents regarding the 19th century are overlapped much. --
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discussion about multiple other authors that you create articles on, such as
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Is there any way we can go back to talking about the article?
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600:) is currently under ArbCom restrictions from the ruling at
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876:), to argue for a block and to even argue that I should be
1064:. The books are easy to purchase, on Abebooks for example
882:. This is some pretty nice behaviour don't you think? :-)
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French Policy Towards the Bakufu and Meiji Japan 1854-9
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than it might otherwise appear. I would also point to
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Ouch - this is already a fair length article. While
525:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
434:: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions.
240:. Current time in Japan: 21:07, September 14, 2024 (
217:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
112:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject International relations
232:, where you can join the project, participate in
1382:Low-importance International relations articles
820:19th century relations between France and Japan
8:
1387:WikiProject International relations articles
542:Template:WikiProject International relations
1246:Caron, French origins, and travel to Japan
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18:Talk:France-Japan relations (19th century)
224:on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to
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830:(please everybody be reminded this is
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586:The primary editor on this article,
519:This article is within the scope of
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106:This article is within the scope of
1206:PHG, my attention was drawn to the
1070:. They are very nice books indeed.
522:WikiProject International relations
49:It is of interest to the following
1084:And per Knowledge (XXG) rules and
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287:This article has been rated as
146:This article has been rated as
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1352:Mid-importance France articles
1:
533:and see a list of open tasks.
304:WikiProject Japan to do list:
120:and see a list of open tasks.
1357:All WikiProject France pages
692:are close topics :) Regards
725:I would support a merge. --
426:to articles that need them.
365:Featured content candidates
129:Template:WikiProject France
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1372:WikiProject Japan articles
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659:Roman Catholicism in Asia
651:the list of other articles
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565:project's importance scale
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1294:, Richard Sims, 1998,
536:International relations
527:International relations
499:International relations
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742:France-Japan relations
709:France-Japan relations
647:Franco-Mongol alliance
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39:This article is rated
878:"permanently blocked"
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897:*waves a white flag*
824:20th century article
655:Christianity in Asia
460:an article from the
442:Japan-related stubs.
234:relevant discussions
1316:important sources.
472:unassessed articles
238:lists of open tasks
228:, please visit the
1102:For details about
448:requested articles
439:Improve and expand
431:Pages for Deletion
415:Godzilla Minus One
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109:WikiProject France
45:content assessment
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582:Cite check
236:, and see
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457:translate
1062:Hachette
598:contribs
382:Pictures
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1271:Cheers
563:on the
392:: None
385:: None
378:: None
318:history
291:on the
255:Refresh
150:on the
41:B-class
1226:, and
614:Best,
469:Assess
355:: None
347:: None
123:France
114:France
70:France
47:scale.
1067:, or
964:Shell
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633:Srnec
454:Help
389:Lists
328:purge
323:watch
264:Japan
246:Reiwa
220:Japan
175:Japan
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