Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance/Archive 6

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Honor et Gloria) is just coming in once a day and pumping another 1-2K of information back in every 24 hours or so, but this is probably not wise. As is shown by the comments of the GA reviewer above, the length of the article is fine. PHG, I understand that your ArbCom-imposed topic ban has expired, but it would probably be best if you avoided re-inserting previously deleted information to this article. Let's concentrate on getting what's there now up to a better standard, such as to improve the citations, and replace the Runciman/Grousset sources with more modern works. --

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or maybe italicize it? And of course if you find other articles, feel free to add them to the list. If an article's status changes, or you disagree with another editor's review, we can pull those articles out of the list for special attention in a separate section, since they may need separate consensus discussions. Per common courtesy guidelines, if someone has flagged your own edits as something needing review, it's probably best if you don't challenge that, but instead allow another editor to then review the article and determine if its status needs to be changed.

2975:, hence my desire to balance with non-French historians. You might notice that the paragraph in question is about the various views of various authors, hence the legitimacy of presenting a few of them and their take on the subject. I'll try to think of a better way to write this down, but I think it is import to reassure the reader that the authors describing "an actual alliance" are not only French. Actually, I'd be more confortable with dropping mentions of nationality altogether, as it's not quite relevant and might be interpreted wrongly. Cheers 4490:) remains unassailable and is proved by the letters, the exchange of embassies and the historically recorded attempts at combined military operations. The substance of an alliance thus existed, but the whole enterprise ended in military failure, which is why the "Franco-Mongol alliance" wording is the one used in the academic literature, and why it is nonetheless often mitigated with expressions such as "attempted", "sporadic", "failure", "unsuccessful" etc: it is necessary that the intro reflects this ambivalence. Following 4593:, "crushing", "marginal" or even "strategically insignificant"??? Qualifiers will remain for ever at variance, but the very fact that there was a battle, and that one side won, remains generally anchored in facts and remains rather undisputed. To me, the safe way is to describe the Franco-Mongol rapprochement, and then to give an account of the various ways historians have qualified it. It shouldn't even be a dispute, just a matter of reporting what the various sources say on the subject. 1183: 1296:

Naples donated numerous Tatar cloths, including velvets, to San Franceso at Assisi. Since Simone excecuted the painting in Naples, the Tatar cloths, as well as Oriental carpets -also the earliest in Italian painting- and a particular crozier in Figure 65 probably represent prized artifacts at king Robert's court. Later Simone brillantly captured the vibrant shimmering effect of the tiny pattern on a white ground in the archangel Gabriel's robe in the

181:. This is not final, as there will still be discussion among the arbitrators over the next few days. They will vote, amend, add, and/or debate the various principles and findings, and then eventually "move to close". If a majority of arbitrators agree that it's time to close, then those principles/findings with sufficient support, will be moved to the "final decision" section. Anyone with questions or comments, is welcome to post here or at the 3499:

other. Some of these articles have now been nominated for deletion (see above threads), but others are going to require more careful review. I agree with Aramgar that we should make a list of all articles about which there may be concerns, so that we can either review them now, and/or, once we figure out how we'd like to proceed and what the consensus is, we can then work through the list to ensure that everything gets cleaned up as needed. --

31: 3553:, this list will also be used for other PHG-edited articles which may have been the subject of biased editing or original research, even if they are in other topic areas. So any editor who identifies such an article, is encouraged to add it to the list. All editors are also encouraged to review items on the list, and if the articles have been fixed or are no longer considered to be problematic, please cross them off the list! Thanks, 2379:. It is extremely concerning that now that your topic ban is up, you are returning to the same POV-pushing about a Mongol occupation of Jerusalem. Please, stop. You are welcome to help with article cleanup, especially improving citations. And images. You're great at finding images. But when it comes to rewriting the definition of the alliance, or the alleged occupation of Jerusalem, please let other editors handle those parts. -- 528: 1422:), p. 151: "The Mongol physiognomies of the ruler and two warriors wearing tall pointed hats, however, were probably observed among emissaries whom the Il-Khanids sent to Italy during the first decades of the fourteeth century. This hat with a neck-covered flap and feather on top accurately depicts the headgear of commanders of one thousand men in the Mongol army. Such headgear might even have been seen in 1194: 3172:, as it would be more comprehensive and, more importantly, avoid stating in the title as fact what is a historiographic hypothesis on which there is not a full consensus. This may be have already proposed and discarded before; in this case please excuse me, but I must confess I haven't had the courage necessary to pass through all the talk. So, again, what do you think of moving the article? Opinions? 1117: 1309:"The Pax Mongolica brought an influx of influential "Tatar" textiles into Italy about 1300 (see for example Fig. 22, 25, 32) and left its mark on fourteenth-century Italian art in Mongol figures, costumes (see Fig. 160), and script (see Fig. 43, 49) in paintings and in references to monuments along the caravan routes on the facades of the Doge's Palace in Venice (see Fig. 10)" in Mack, p.18 4420:. Then again, it may just be a detail that was missed in the sources I've read so far. Bar Sauma did bring many gifts ("enough for 30 riding animals") for the European monarchs, and I guess it's possible he may have brought a baby elephant with him. However, it's also possible that he brought a small statue of an elephant, and the story grew from "a statue" to a real elephant. -- 2497:"Although the Mongols were never again a threat to Palestine or Egypt, they did stage one more raid that reached Jerusalem. This occurred nearly fourty years later in 1300CE, just after the last of the Crusaders had finally been evicted from the Holy Land in 1291CE. Kutubi, a writer nearly contemporaneous with the events he describes, says that a Mongol officer named Bulay (or 2945:), though this is nowhere else mentioned in the article. If there is such contention, it needs to be addressed in a superior fashion. Third, the format was mangling. I'd have rewritten if I could tell why the quotes were being used, but as a reader, it looked like it was either using quotes to prove some point not directly deliniated in the text, which would be 662:"The texts of Jerome (Fig.43, destroyed in teh 1997 earthquake), Augustine and Pope Gregory I are written in squared units of vertical, horizontal, and curved strokes that can be called pseudo-Mongol. Though the artist has aligned the units horizontally on the page in Western style, the script itself imitates 'Pags Pa, which is written vertically" in Mack, p.52 2048:, which is currently missing from the article, and is quite important, and mentionned in most books on the subject. I believe it deserves being mentionned in this article if it is to be informative on the subject in any way. I also believe it is fairly balanced in presenting the various positions on the subject, and incorporating many of your views. Cheers 613:"Texts of Jerome (Fig.43; destroyed in the 1997 earthquake), Augustine, and Pope gregory I are written in squared units of vertical, horizontal, and curved strokes that can be called pseudo-Mongol. Though the artist has aligned the units horizontally on the page in Western style, the script itself imitates 'Pags Pa, which is written vertically", Mack, p.52 2505:"They looted property, and booty and prisonners, in such amounts that only God could count it. With his army he fell upon the region of Gaza, the Jordan River Valley and Jerusalem (bayt al-maqdis)… Bulay came and with his army, from the Jordan River Valley, Gaza, Ramla and Jerusalem (al-quds). With him was an extremely large number of prisonners." 1359:

Customarily, the Mongols spared skilled weavers -both Muslim and Chinese- from the sword, distributed them as booty, and transported them to new workshops scattered accross the empire. Captive artisans served royal courts, the military and government officials, who were often recruited from the conquered. For example, it is known that

741:, is quite common. Examples dating from at least the ninth century appear in specifically Christian contexts. This sort of borrowing is hardly limited to 13th and 14th century Italy. These Mongol-inspired examples are certainly interesting but making much of them in the context of a supposed Franco-Mongol alliance is a clear case of 1501:(not Renaissance), which already mentions exotic influences in artistic works of the period (neither limited to Italy, nor to Mongol/Chinese influences). And you seem to keep misrepresenting sources. Just one example of several: How on earth do you arrive from "an influx" (in the citation) to "large quantities" (in your text)? -- 707:"Because the Arabic and 'Pag Pa were associated with the Holy Land and the Early Christian Era, the frames could emphasize the origin and age of the images they surround. Perhaps they marked the imagery of a universal faith, an artistic intention consistent with the Church's contemporary international program." Mack, p.69 1770:

vassal or "submitted" relationship, rather than a true alliance." is a personal interpretation. To impose such a view would require establishing that this is a view is widely held by specialists, and until then, should probably not justify painting the Armenia-Mongol relationship as a "submitted" relationship" only.

4739:) is rather inadequate, strangely constructed and most of all against Knowledge (XXG) editorial rules (in case anyone is interested, I think I made a nice proposal a few lines up)... Let me try another one, which hopefully leaves open the academic evaluations of how much the alliance was actually implemented: 387: 4690:

I think the first sentence does the job of defining the scope of the topic (even if repeating "Franco-Mongol" is a bit awkward). The second and third sentences go off on a bit of a tangent, I think. Are the key trends the waning of Crusader power and the Mamluks' success? And I agree that the lead

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between the Mongols and the Franks: this is historically proven by the letters of agreement, the plans and movements for combined operation etc... The only variation (not even "dispute", the only dispute on the subject is really here on Knowledge (XXG)) is related to the ways of qualifying the extent

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tags. If you review an article and see that it definitely needs work and/or attention, please bold the article name in this list. You may also wish to include a diff of an edit or two that you think are of concern. If you're not sure, or want a second opinion, either don't modify the article name,

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Baybars al-Mansuri, a Mamluk emir who had been dispatched with 200 horsemen to guard against just such a Mongol raid, corroborated Kutubi’s account. He says that there were not 10,000 but 20,000 Mongols involved, and that "they fell upon the Jordan River Valley and Baisan" His report continues: "They

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Besides the influence of exchanges between the Western and Mongol realms during the period, the exact reason for the incorporation of Mongol script in early Renaissance painting is unclear. It seems that Westerners associated 13-14th century Middle-Eastern scripts (such as Mongol and Arabic) as being

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Sure Elonka, I would never have thought of moving this article on my own when it is clear there is not unanimity. But I must admit that after having seen the previous discussions, while, as you correctly observe, consensus can change, there didn't seem to be great enthusiasm, so maybe it's better to

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to the concept of an alliance between the Europeans and the Mongols. I am also concerned by the recent attempts to further expand the article, which seem to just be a way to restore the information which was removed two years ago. Looking at the history of the article, it's clear that PHG (now Per

595:'s time, and thus found natural to represent early Chrsitians in association with them. Another reason might be that artist wished to express a cultural universality for the Christian faith, by blending together various written languages, at a time when the church had strong international ambitions. 2776:

That's true. Also, since the Mongols didn't particularly care what the Franks thought, Jerusalem wasn't significant to them, and there were no Franks there in 1300, why does it matter in this article? I do understand why you want it here, I think - it's an interesting footnote. But since it may not

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This is the same problem we had two years ago or whenever it was. PHG, who cares if you have 10 sources? Without even looking at them I can tell that some are inappropriate, and some will have used the others as their own references. I don't really have a problem with sticking these four lines into

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Another chronicler - Ibn Abi’l Fada’il, an Egyptian Christian author- later noted that when the Mongols reached Jerusalem in 1300CE they "killed both Moslems and Christians, drank wine on Haram el-Sharif, and took young women and children . They did despicable deeds, destroyed, killed, looted, and

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gets described in different ways. Some historians refer to it as an alliance, but (as I read it) this is usually as a shorthand term when they're giving it a passing mention, and then if you dig in deeper and see how they describe it when they're being more detailed, they're careful to describe it

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The article currently says "Traditionally, the Mongols tended to see outside parties as either subjects, or enemies, with little room in the middle for something such as an ally." without citation. My reading in Mongol history suggests that they did have a place for allies, and that not all allies

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Mack, p.35-36. "A well-documented example of a delayed but creative Italian response to the new Tatar cloths is that of the tiny-pattern design, in which small leaves or plants and animals rythmically organized in dense, allower composition. (...) During the early fouteenth century, the Angevins of

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Although I have neither participated in nor read the older discussions I think that the "relations" term is too general and misleading when applied to military matters. I have to also note that even if a general article existed on the wider "relations" there still would be a need for a fork on the

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Mack p.35: "Tatars cloths were themselves products of transcultural exchange. As the nomadic Mongol warriors became imperial rulers, they adopted many aspects of the sophisticated textile cultures in conquered Islamic lands and developed a preference for silk lavishly ornamented with gold threads.

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He is reminded that in contributing to Knowledge (XXG) (including his talkpage contributions, contributions in other subject-matter areas, and contributions after the one-year editing restriction has expired), it is important that all sourced edits must fairly and accurately reflect the content of

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I am afraid that the above "Some historians refer to it as an alliance, but (as I read it) this is usually as a shorthand term when they're giving it a passing mention, and then if you dig in deeper and see how they describe it when they're being more detailed, they're careful to describe it as a

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I agree that it's worthwhile to make a list of the articles that seem to have been the targets of biased editing. It appears that there has been an attempt to manipulate multiple articles, where biased information has been inserted in multiple locations, as a way for them all to reinforce each

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Saying "English-speaking historians" implies that there's some big contention between English- and non-English-speaking camps that we're trying to play down. If there's no real contention, the solution is not to pile on quotes, it would be just to not play it up in the first place. But to me it

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The diplomatic contacts between the West and the Mongols during the period of the Franco-Mongol alliance (or "attempts towards an alliance") directly led to the arrival of Mongol Empire textiles in the West, which were to prove vastly influential in Italian art in the 14th century. Feel free to

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My main concern with the lead is that it spends the bulk of its time debunking the idea of a formal alliance. While I understand how the lead grew out of past disputes on the article, it currently doesn't do much to give an overview of the article at all. Instead the lead should describe the

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Unfortunately it appears that the problem has expanded to a large number of articles. I was going to review them myself, but I think the problem is too large for one person. So here's what I'm doing: I've provided a list of articles below, which I identified as having either definitely been

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PHG is also reminded that Knowledge (XXG) is a collaborative project and it is essential that all editors work towards compromise and a neutral point of view in a good-faith fashion. When one editor finds themselves at odds with most other editors on a topic, it can be disruptive to continue

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by Per Honor for a couple of reasons. First, it reads like just quote-dropping into the middle of the text; it doesn't add anything not said elsewhere in the article. Second, the caveat "Among English-speaking historians..." is misplaced; it suggests there is a significant contention between

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The Mongol Empire textiles started to have a strong impact on Italian textile design from around 1330. A type of Tartar cloth that was adopted in the West consisted in small-pattern designs in dense composition. This sort of textile is represented in the clothing of the angel Gabriel in

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on people's watchlists would be of any use. Better would be to focus efforts on getting the last remaining articles cleaned up. Once they're crossed off the list, we can move this whole section to archive, and move on to other tasks such as getting this article up to GA/FA standard.

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Dear Elonka, it is hard to understand why you have such a prejudice about the notion of the Mongols raiding Jerusalem. Granted, it is an issue that is debated by historians, but nothing prohibits us from presenting both views. Have you seen the words of Reuven Amitai on the subject in

1318:"The fabrics that revolutionized Italian textile design beginning about the 1330s were the Tatar cloths arriving from Central Asia and Syria during the Pax Mongolica. Though they were foremost among imports in the Papal collections, probably thanks to diplomatic gifts from the 1363:

and Chinese craftsmen worked together, and some Herati were sent back to their homes in eastern Persia (now Afghanistan). The cultural mix among the imperial elite and the craftmen working for them resulted in a rich and distinctive blend of Islamic and Chinese techniques and

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As a lay reader, there are many things I don't understand about this section. Isn't this an instance of the hostility of the non-Antioch Franks described in the following section, rather that some sort of border friction? Was Sidon "raided" or "destroyed" (as per the

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Thank you very much for the comments. I went ahead and ported my draft over to the main article, and rewrote it a bit to try and address the concerns. Regarding the second and third sentences, are you referring to the Prester John section? Or a different paragraph?

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It seems you use ten references to "document" 4 lines of text, which essentially just say "there were rumours, and because of that there were more rumours". And none of those rumours have any relevance to a purported alliance. So what exactly is "missing" here?

1036:" title certainly does not cover the variety of scripts that have been used (not only Kufic, but also Mongol), hence the proposal to have two articles that refer to different times, spaces, and content. But frankly, do as you wish, I don't really mind. Cheers 4589:

of the alliance: to some it was full-fledged, to other intermittent, sporadic, fledgling, and yet to others again (admitedly numerous) just an attempt, a dream, a chimera. It's a bit like historians differing about the magnitude of a military victory: was it

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PHG is encouraged to continue contributing to Knowledge (XXG) and Wikimedia projects in other ways, including by suggesting topics for articles, making well-sourced suggestions on talkpages, and continuing to contribute free-content images to Wikimedia

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There are interesting examples of the adoption of Mongol script in Renaissance paintings during the time of the Franco-Mongol alliance. Please feel free to include this paragraph into the article. Portions of the book by Mack (which I own) are visible

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repeating the same argument. After suggestions have been properly considered and debated, and possible options considered, if a consensus is clear, the collegial and cooperative thing to do is to acknowledge the consensus, and move on to other debates.

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design and silk and gold thread (left), and Italian adaptation of the second half of the 14th century (right), also with phoenix design and silk and gold thread. These designs are of Chinese origin, and transited through the Mongol realm into Europe

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sent to Italy during the first decades of the fourteeth century. This hat with a neck-covered flap and feather on top accurately depicts the headgear of commanders of one thousand men in the Mongol army. Such headgear might even have been seen in

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doesn't read like describing Demurger et al as French is doing anything more than kind of describing them a little, like saying "Irish actor Daniel Day Lewis turned 53 today" or "American astronaut Buzz Aldrin has published a new article in the

3483:, the specious and idiosycratic POV represented in this article has extended further than those articles now being considered for deletion. Let us make a list so that these otherwise sound articles may be reviewed when conflicts are resolved. 2095:, or not, before departing in May 1300. These events led to greatly exaggerated accounts of a permanent reconquest of the Holy Land by the Mongols, and the myth that Jerusalem was ready to be, or had already been, remitted to the Christians." 2729:), but without results ultimately. It is absolutely inexact to say that it has "nothing to do with the Franco-Mongol alliance". This is precisely why all Christianity made such a fuss about this event (however exaggerated) in 1300.... Cheers 2664:, or not, before departing in May 1300. These events led to greatly exaggerated accounts of a permanent reconquest of the Holy Land by the Mongols, and the myth that Jerusalem was ready to be, or had already been, remitted to the Christians." 3515:

targeted, or may have been edited in a questionable way. What I'd like, is help checking each article. If you have reviewed an article and see no problems with it, meaning nothing that you think is controversial as regards a biased POV or

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The connection between Byzantine iconography and the religious art of the early Italian Renaissance is quite real and basic to understanding this particular issue. If you refuse to acknowledge this, we have nothing more to discuss. Regards,

100:. The decision will probably be made within the next couple days. If accepted, the case will probably take a couple months, and will go through evidence, workshop, and decision phases, but for now, preliminary statements are recommended. -- 1223:(1285–1348) depiction of the martyrdom of some Franciscans on their way to China accurately portrays the garb of a Mongol commander of a thousand (conical hat with the feather). Mack notes the "Mongol figures and costumes" in the painting. 4485:

The problem is that the current lead seems to blanket-deny everything, whereas the fact that there was agreement, or multiple agreements, between parties (the Franks and the Mongols) towards a common goal (and that's the definition of an

178: 138: 2703:, and has little or nothing to do with a Franco-Mongol alliance. We already have a sentence mentioning Ghazan's troops in Palestine for a few months in 1300, and we have a "see also" to the Mongol raids article. That is sufficient. -- 2043:

Hi Elonka. Here is the sentence you just removed, which I took pains to document (according to your own formating recommendation) with online references. It describes in a concise manner the Mongol invasion of the Holy Land after the

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Franco-Mongol alliance was about recovering Jerusalem (at least from the perspective of the Franks), so I think it is only legitimate to mention that Jerusalem was probably indeed reached by the Mongols (and they even went beyond to

4362:, cutting down the text of the mongol subtopic, and moving it to the bottom of the page. Could someone look it over for me, as I'm not very up on wiki markings for sources, etc. Want to make sure I didn't bork things. Thanks! 896:

are unrelated was of no concern to the painters who employed them. "Oriental scripts in Renaissance painting" would not be an appropriate title as the tradition begins in 9th century Byzantium and arguably extends well into the

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article)? Why was Baibars angered by Crusaders and Mongols attacking each other? How do the events of the last paragraph fit with the truce between Crusaders and Mamluks, which is presented as happening at the same time?

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wreaked havoc and raided that country. They looted what they found of livestock, supplies and equipment, and they killed whoever fell into they hands. Their raids reached Jerusalem and Hebron, and they went as far as Gaza."

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the end of the article, but you only need one or maybe two references. I notice also that the sentence says nothing about Jerusalem, so what is the big fuss about? Isn't this what you were banned for in the first place?

786:. 'Pag Pa is not a Semetic script, but its use in the Italian paintings described by Rosamond Mack is squarely in that tradition. The Mongol-inspired pseudo-script is certainly an interesting and notable variation. 132: 126: 3204:. It is therefore an established expression and a subject of scholarly inquiry (also sometimes "Franco-Mongol rapprochement"). With someone courageous enough to build the content, I think we could clearly have a 3412:

changed... I think a try wouldn't be of hurt to anybody, PHG, after all, it only takes a week to get an answer. To make this the most open possible, I'd advise to inform those that have previously voiced their

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mistake on my part, misread. I'll check further, but it doesn't look like that reliable of a refrence to me (and is merely a synopsis of other works which should be used as sources, rather than a webpage).

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I checked that reference out, it looks rather sketchy to me. There's no specific references given for any of the information in there, just a general bibliography (including only one biography on Philip)

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means that this was a momentous phenomenon. This is what the source says. If it can please you, I'd be fine with writing "quantities" rather than "large quantities": no problem with that :) Bye for now.

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The Mongols' success in Syria led to some wild rumors in Europe that the Mongols had successfully re-captured the Holy Land, and had even conquered the Mamluks in Egypt and were on a mission to conquer

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I have done my best to avoid this article due to the unfortunate conflicts that have involved it, but I've been thinking that maybe it could be a good idea to move the article from its current name to

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Looks good to me, thanks for the help! :) I would like to get a double-check on the story of the elephant, since the current source for that one is a bit weak, but other than that all seems fine. --

575:(1296-1300) are known where they study books written in pseudo-Mongol. The famous Renaissance painter Giotto and his pupils often combined Arabic and 'Pag Pa script in their paintings. In Giotto's 1947: 2376: 206: 1085: 1032:

I certainly do not deny the importance of the connections between Byzantine and Renaissance (have I ever said such a thing? quite the contrary, just see my previous post). The issue is that a "

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and the 11th century church in Athens dedicated to the Metamorphosis. The Italian painters discussed by Mack were only continuing the Byzantine tradition but with more recent exotic scripts.

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I agree 100%. The debate about "alliance", "no alliance" "attempts at alliance" is artificial and rather pointless: what's important in this article is to document the various instances of

2640:, as many historians do. I am completely OK with much fewer references for this sentence. Now, if some people need more references, I'll be happy to comply. Here is a streamlined proposal: 1082: 1745:. I don't have the book in front of me, but can dig up an exact page number if you'd like one, probably from the chapter "An Ally Against Islam". It is true that the exact designator of 1155:

cloth) were repertoried in the Papal inventory of 1295, and must have been diplomatic gifts from the Il-Khanate. Later on Western merchants were also able to purchase such textiles from

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Thanks for the help! I'd support removing the elephant story until/unless we can find a better source. I'd personally never heard that story, and I've done quite a bit of reading on

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sounds a bit inexact... Whatever the numerous connections, Byzantine is not Renaissance, Kufic is not Mongol, Middle-Ages is not Renaissance, and vice-versa :) How about an article on

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During the period of interaction between the Mongols and the West, from the late 13th century to early 14th century, some Italian painters incorporated Mongol script (particularly the

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I meant that the emphasis on Nestorians and Prester John in the opening paragraph doesn't seem to match the article, which seems much more concerned with Mongol and Mamluk expansion.

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for this article, if one exists relating to the topic of the article. (Note that there might not be an applicable infobox; remember that these suggestions are not generated manually)

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title? Is it really wise and productive to again lose the time of the community on this subject, and again create a dispute on something which has already been so clearly settled?

406: 391: 4675:. I'd appreciate if folks could look at it and provide constructive criticism? It's probably a bit long and could be winnowed down further, but I'm not sure what to cut. -- 3199:

between the Franks and the Mongols. These rapprochements were rather few and sparse but are regularly described in the academic literature as "Franco-Mongol alliance" indeed

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The point is, the lead should first and foremost express what this alliance was, with its limitations, rather than what it wasn't. Wouldn't this sentence be pretty perfect?

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in early 1300, which may or may not have even passed through Jerusalem itself. When the Egyptians again advanced from Cairo in May, the Mongols retreated without resistance.

1143:, and were to prove quite influential in Italian art,. These textiles even revolutionized Italian textile designs. Between 1265 to 1308, communications between Western and 1091: 1088: 1079: 1076: 2967:

Hi Cuchullain. It's just that the only two authors who are already being quoted in the paragraph as describing "an actual alliance" are presented, for whatever reason, as

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I am delighted and relieved to see that constructive dialogue is possible, and that we can improve these articles through exchange and understanding! My very best regards

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We just have to accept that there are several views on the subject, and describe them, in a summary manner if necessary but shutting that out is not a solution. Cheers

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would actually have a much wider scope (cultural relations, trade relations, conflicts as well as alliances would have to be covered... quite daunting). Instead, the

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for this article, it has been brought up by one of the reviewers that the lead of the Franco-Mongol alliance article is not accurately summarizing the article, per

2450:""...They entered Jerusalem and enslaved and looted" There is little doubt, then, that the Mongols included Jerusalem in the itinerary of this raid into Palestine". 4326:

is for discussing this one article, not all these others. It would also be beneficial to place this list in a central location to encourage more editors to help.

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rulers led to numerous exchanges of people and presents, as when about 100 Mongols in Mongol dress visited Rome for the Papal Jubilee in 1300. Large quantities of

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describe the situation. The sources instead say that an alliance was perceived as "possible", and that there were "attempts" towards it. Not that it existed. --

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as a vassal or "submitted" relationship, rather than a true alliance. For specific quotes on how the relationship has been described by various historians, see

1247:(circa 1330), the earliest such depiction of a Tartar cloth. Chinese types of floral designs were also adopted, as visible in the mantles of Christ and Mary in 749:. And I have to ask how does this section fit into the scope of the article. Are we striving to document every Mongol-Eropean connection no matter how obscure. 3114:

articles. Since when he's on a roll, he does this faster than other editors can keep up, I'm maintaining a list here, so things don't get lost in the shuffle.

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Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “

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Early Renaissance painters, or rather Italian painters working in the 13th and 14th centuries, were using an iconography developed in Byzantium. The fact that

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is ....", I stumbled upon a sentence which I think precisely reflects what the alliance was, and at the same time nicely avoids past pitfalls and disputes:

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Italian textile design beginning about the 1330s were the Tatar cloths arriving from Central Asia and Syria during the Pax Mongolica", p.35. She therefore

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Other designs involved naturally flowing compositions of flowers and vines with fantastic animals. Such a textile is depicted as the background curtain in

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I am glad that you like the material, and I would be delighted if we could use it somewhere else! The tradition described here is not really related to

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Correction, since it appears that the AE thread was not the proper venue, the request for the extension of the topic ban on PHG has instead been filed

4285: 1804: 3080: 314: 3905: 1647: 858:", which could be a nice succession to the Pseudo-Kufic article? I will gladly write such an article when I have the time and opportunity! Cheers 472: 1841: 1822: 1322:

of Persia, the new imports attracted no attention from Italian painters for two more decades and from local designers for three.", in Mack, p.35

2777:

have even happened, it does fit better in the article about the raids. (And no, you still don't need five references for something like this.)

1983: 1970: 1943: 1589:"1. arrival in large numbers: a sudden arrival of a large number of people or things 2. inflow: a flowing in, especially of a stream or river" 2519:

Following the Mongol raid on Jerusalem in 1300, the Mamlukes ruled Jerusalem until the coming of the Ottomans under Sultan Selim I in 1516CE."

345:

Some of the threads on this page (from Franco-Mongol alliance issues to the "Mongol textiles" info) are being discussed with an arbitrator at

420:"The Mongol physiognomies of the ruler and two warriors wearing tall pointed hats, however, were probably observed among emissaries whom the 72: 67: 59: 4887: 290: 97: 96:. It has not yet been decided whether or not the case will be accepted, but anyone who wishes to post a statement, is welcome to do so, at 568: 4864: 1388: 3428:"alliance" so we would have to recreate an "alliance" article anyway. Anyway when a wider discussion starts I will try to participate. 4363: 3877: 93: 4460:

been working on the article be interested in trying to re-write the lead? Or, do other editors feel that the lead is okay as-is? --

3148:, but since that one was finally finished in January 2010 (after over two years of cleanup work!) I am starting a fresh one here. -- 2377:

an entire ArbCom case which resulted in your being completely banned from the entire topic area of medieval history for over a year

4335:

The case is closely entwined with this article. And as for a central location, I fail to see how moving this list to a page that

3245:, so it would be reasonable to try again. Since it's a controversial move though, I'd recommend filing a formal request through 3020: 2956: 3328:

Aside from PHG, no one else seems to be objecting... Couldn't hurt to file an RM. If you'd like, I'll handle the paperwork? --

497: 177:(update) The Arbitration has moved to a "Voting" phase. This means that a Proposed Decision has been written, and can be viewed 4446: 4046: 2009: 2216:"En Décembre 1299, il vainc les Mamelouks lors de la deuxième bataille d'Homs et s'empare de Damas, et même de Jérusalem" in 855: 92:

This article, or rather, the conduct of the editors involved with it, is now being considered as the subject of a case by the

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I've gone through the lead several times myself, but perhaps some other opinions would be helpful here. Would someone who

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You are welcome to help with article cleanup, especially improving citations. And images. You're great at finding images.

1377:

proclaims the jubilee year of 1300. Over the balcony is a "Tartar cloth", one of the many silks presented by the Persian

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If anyone else spots any new articles, or anything that's being edited in a POV fashion, please add it here, thanks. --

2231:: "In December 1299, he vanquished the Mamluks in the second battle of Homs et captured Damascus, and even Jerusalem") 635:'s success in Beijing arrived in the West, precipitating major missionary efforts in central Asia and China" Mack, p.51 4323: 4078: 3673: 2807: 2801: 2700: 2571: 2045: 1723: 631:"The Assisi painters, and Giotto as is shown below, were imitating a Mongol script before 1307, when reports of Friar 47: 17: 3038:

FYI, since PHG is continuing to disrupt the GA nom, I have filed an AE request to extend his original topic ban, at

229:

He is permitted to make suggestions on talk pages, provided that he interacts with other editors in a civil fashion.

4193: 4002: 3870: 944: 38: 2574:. There is absolutely no reason that this debate needs to be re-hashed in the Franco-Mongol alliance article. -- 1430:, a Sienese who had taken the name Tumen, had visited Siena when he accompanied the Il-Khanid emissaries in 1301." 4071: 3929: 3863: 3845: 3736: 3722: 2941:

English-speaking and non-English speaking historians (in which the English-speaking historians are implied to be

433:, a Sienese who had taken the name Tumen, had visited Siena when he accompanied the Il-Khanid emissaries in 1301" 223: 3202: 4920: 4775: 4643: 4594: 4535: 4277: 4053: 3950: 3708: 3367: 3279: 3209: 2976: 2878: 2730: 2671: 2542: 2049: 3634: 3208:

article, from which we could link to the more specific "Franco-Mongol Alliance" article. My very best regards

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Where, Aramgar, would you put it, if not here? I would just like to know, I'm not disputing your assessment.

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Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of

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have been reviewed and/or fixed, and been determined to have nothing controversial as regards POV or

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ended up as subjects. I don't have specific citations at hand, but at this time, c.1260, wasn't the

1498: 1427: 898: 632: 430: 1815: 622:"During the Pax Mongolica a few Italian painters imitated a Mongol script called 'Pag Pa", Mack p.51 317:. Anyone who is interested, is advised to set that page on your watchlist, as well as those of the 4359: 4113: 3808: 3701: 3665: 3630: 1522:, so I am afraid that "Large quantities" is quite exact. Sorry if that seems to upset you. Regards 1220: 1189:

at the 1300 jubilee with a "Tartar cloth" in front of him, with a "rythmic Sino-Mongolian pattern".

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that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's

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PHG is requesting an appeal on his sanctions. Any interested editors are invited to comment, at

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To provide a formal place for discussion, I went ahead and started the RM discussion below. --

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not talking about anything like a trickle :) Also, Mack clearly writes that "The fabrics that

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has expressed an interest in creating this article. She would be happy to use PHG's material.

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article, which could cover the Mongols and others? Would that be worth a separate article? --

386:. The painting contains depictions of Tartars wearing conical hats and viewing the martyrdom 265:

Since PHG is continuing to violate his sanctions, I have posted a request for enforcement at

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Nobody's approving either... May I remind that this subject has been delt with and resolved

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means "A mass arrival or incoming / an arrival of something in great quantities or numbers"

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article (which would be amazingly interesting in its own right!). How about an article on "

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or something equivalent in order to define the subject matter, as earlier pointed out by

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Dear Latebird. I'm afraid "influx" clearly has the nuance of a massive flow of something

1549: 579:(1304-1312/1313), soldiers wears dresses inscribed with pseudo-Mongol bands. In Giotto's 508:, written horizontally rather than vertically. 1296-1300, Church of San Francesco Assisi. 4691:

as a whole is a bit long, and the second paragraph in particular ought to be condensed.

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Knowledge (XXG):Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Request concerning Per Honor et Gloria

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in 1347. The Tatar cloths were a produce of transcultural exchange under Mongol rule.

527: 4757: 4733: 4639: 4584: 4491: 4216: 4099: 4064: 3476: 3396: 3196: 2806:" That should be sufficient, though if more detail is desired, it is better for the 2763: 2605: 2524: 2474: 2402: 1775: 1703: 1674: 1637: 1609: 1556: 1527: 1502: 1374: 1124: 1099: 1041: 956: 902: 863: 839: 480: 455: 440: 217: 4494:'s very legitimate comment indeed on the structure of the lead, which should be per 4106: 1164: 382:(1285-1348) showing the matyrdom of Franciscan friars on their way to China in 1321 4149: 3801: 3484: 2949:, or just dropping in quotes without context or indication why they're important.-- 1193: 1071:

include this material in the article, or anywhere else :) The references from Mack

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of the text proposed above and how it relates (or doesn't) to the cited source. --

1200:: Chinese types of floral design are visible in the mantles of Christ and Mary in 1116: 4764:, between the mid-13th and early 14th centuries, starting around the time of the 4524:, between the mid-13th and early 14th centuries, starting around the time of the 850:

are not Kufic at all, so I am not sure it would be wise to incorporate them in a

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and most notably, has a gross factual error saying he succeeded his grandfather

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The sepulchre of Christ and the medieval West: from the beginning to 1600, p.296

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

812:

I certainly hope so! And I'm sure PHG will agree that this is a good solution.

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rapprochement between the Crusader Franks and the Mongols, against the Muslim

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article is supposed to focus on the only instances of diplomatic and military

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I recommend that all interested parties set the above pages on your watchlist.

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No. We already went through this, we had RfCs, a mediation, we went through

1544:

That's only one of several possible interpretations of the term, and you are

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Knowledge (XXG):Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#User:PHG

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has closed, and the final decision can be seen at that link. As a summary:

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The Mongols in the Islamic lands: studies in the history of the Ilkhanate

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The Mongols in the Islamic lands: studies in the history of the Ilkhanate

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It's just that mixing all regions and periods and putting all this under

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To monitor the arbitrators' discussion of their proposed decision, watch

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Actually, I missed this the first time around. I'd support a page move.

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reading a pseudo-Mongol script, consisting of an imitation of blocks of

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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/Franco-Mongol alliance/Cleanup

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different contacts from the religious to the secular to the military.

4318:

Could we move this list to a subpage of the arbitration case, perhaps

587:'s robe is decorated with a hem in a mix of Arabic and Mongol script. 4891: 4868: 3822: 3687: 2570:

No. In fact, this debate is already covered in detail at the article

1618:

You could just quote "influx" directly and avoid this whole problem.

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Around 1300, an influx of Mongol Empire textiles found their way to

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The use of eastern scripts in Byzantine art, usually referred to as

2800:

in northern Africa. But in reality, all that was managed were some

1300:

painted for the cathedral of Sienna in 1333 (Fig. 23)" – Mack, p.35

547:, probably discovered by the artists through Mongol paper money or 535:(1320-1330) is a mix of Arabic and Mongol script characteristic of 349:. Any interested editors are invited to observe and/or comment. -- 4895: 4886: 4863: 4846: 4092: 2498: 1423: 1360: 1211: 1192: 1181: 1152: 1140: 1115: 893: 782:

I was surprised that Knowledge (XXG) has no article no article on

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Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either

1741:

The citation for that particular comment is from Peter Jackson's

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A new case based on PHG's above motion was opened on December 3,

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between the Crusader Franks and the Mongols, against the Muslim

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means? This is at best material for an extra sentence or two in

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Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration#Request for appeal: PHG

1851:, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: 98:

Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration#Franco-Mongol alliance

3580:

mean that they definitely have text which needs to be reviewed

154:

Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/How to present a case

25: 3144:(note) This is a continuation of the list that is already at 1795:

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic

116:(update) The Arbitration case has been accepted, and opened. 3607: 1844:, avoid using special characters (ex: &+{}) in headings. 1373:"In this fragment of the fresco, attributed to Giotto, Pope 846:

however. And as Aramgar pointed out, Mongol scripts such as

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I went ahead and re-worked the Ghazan section, and added, "

1799:, and might not be applicable for the article in question. 390:. These Fransciscans, on their way to China through India ( 3241:. This was suggested a couple years ago and rejected, but 3110:

It would appear that PHG is resuming his tactic of making

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Bazaar to Piazza: Islamic Trade and Italian Art, 1300-1600

1073:

Bazaar to Piazza: Islamic Trade and Italian Art, 1300-1600

724:

Bazaar to Piazza: Islamic Trade and Italian Art, 1300-1600

3519:

issues, then simply cross out the article with <s: -->

1548:

this one to make it sound more dramatic. A clear case of

1411:

Bazaar to Piazza: Islamic Trade and Italian Art 1300–1600

435:... This could be a nice addition to the article! Cheers 410:

Bazaar to Piazza, Islamic Trade and Italian Art 1300-1600

2529:

Jerusalem besieged: from ancient Canaan to modern Israel

2479:

Jerusalem besieged: from ancient Canaan to modern Israel

125:

To add assertions/evidence, please create a section at:

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The previous discussion and the resolution to keep the

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I have undone the most recent expansion of the article,

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I took a stab at creating a new draft of the lead, at

2473:

Or the description of the raids on Jerusalem made by

1439:"Mongol figures, costumes (see Fig. 160)", Mack, p.18 1968:

Avoid misplaced formality: “in order to/for” (-: -->

1167:

between 1305 and 1313, and until the capture of the

1123:: Small-patterned Mongol-style textiles are worn by 3471:

Hydrae Capita: POV forks stemming from this article

1669:Sure, that could be a great article really. Cheers 2758:You don't need Adam's personal approval. You need 374:Matyrdom of the Franciscans on their way to China. 3601:Articles in plain text have not yet been reviewed 3237:Aldux, I would support a move of this article to 3598:are ambiguous and need a second editor's opinion 3145: 2134: 2132: 4742: 4505: 3266: 2645: 2495: 2105: 2103: 2077: 1814:You may wish to consider adding an appropriate 1107: 488: 3974:(has a long quote in it, otherwise looks okay) 2932:French historians/ English-speaking historians 1752:User:Elonka/Mongol historians#Cilician Armenia 4582:I believe all authors agree that there was a 2481:, p.216 (University of Michigan Press, 2004, 2022:because it seems to be an attempt to restore 543:These inscriptions often imitated the Mongol 450:Thanks for adding this image to the article! 8: 4724:", then it is supposed to start simply with 315:Knowledge (XXG):Requests for arbitration/PHG 161:If anyone has any questions, let me know, -- 4498:built as a definition on the lines of "The 2397:Many attempts were made towards forming an 1805:Knowledge (XXG):What is a featured article? 1632:Wonderful! I'll do just that. Best regards 366:Depiction of Mongol officers in Italian art 5093:The Mongols and the West, 1221-1410, p.172 2351:The Mongols and the West, 1221-1410, p.172 2273:England and the Crusades, 1095-1588, p.239 1842:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style (headings) 1823:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style (headings) 591:identical with the scripts current during 555:was issued during his travels. Frescos of 152:Another useful link to read is this one: 4478:"A diplomatic and military rapprochement" 4286:Viam agnoscere veritatis (disambiguation) 4047:Medieval Roman Catholic Missions in China 2636:The proposed sentence above does mention 2091:for a few months,. temporarily occupying 2010:Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance/Archive 6/GA1 1969:to/for), “thereupon”, “notwithstanding”, 1499:International Gothic#Peak of the movement 1111:Mongol Empire textiles in Renaissance art 4960:Crusading and the crusader states, p.249 4917:Rosamond E.Mack, ISBN 0520221311 p.27-49 4137:(has a long quote, otherwise looks okay) 3906:Islamic contributions to Medieval Europe 3081:extension of PHG's topic ban was granted 2660:for a few months, temporarily occupying 2194:Crusading and the crusader states, p.249 1648:Islamic contributions to Medieval Europe 1381:ruler, and distinguished by its rythmic 856:Oriental scripts in Renaissance painting 4986:The medieval expansion of Europe, p.127 4949: 2244:The medieval expansion of Europe, p.127 2099: 1650:article... Is there something like an 1288: 1270:, University of California Press, 2001 726:, University of California Press, 2001 606: 119:To post a statement, please add it to: 4563:No, because it's not backed up by how 4309:Updated: 03:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) 3013:". But we can certainly work it out.-- 2220:Alain Demurger 2007 Editions Gisserot 1984:User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a 1652:Asian contributions to Medieval Europe 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 492:Mongol script in Renaissance painting 466:Mongol script in Renaissance painting 131:To suggest remedies, please post at: 94:Knowledge (XXG):Arbitration Committee 7: 4642:between the Franks and the Mongols. 2718:This was a question to Adam :-) The 2699:No, because it's already covered in 2501:) came raiding with 10,000 horsemen. 2168:The great armies of antiquity, p.343 3310:let it be, even if I do think that 3034:New Arbitration Enforcement request 949:Oriental scripts in Renaissance art 947:on the one hand, and an article on 408:). According to Rosamond E.Mack in 5044:. University of California Press. 4910:textiles of the 14th century with 3878:History of Jerusalem (Middle Ages) 2969:"French historian, Alain Demurger" 2670:Would that be OK with you? Cheers 2145:. University of California Press. 1698:Discussion elsewhere has led to a 1515:Well, according to the dictionary 1066:Mongol textiles in Renaissance art 24: 4902:Transmission of textile designs: 2430:, p.216 (Ashgate/Variorum, 2007, 347:the arbitration evidence talkpage 3353:2: Poll for renaming the article 1959:pigs are pink, so we thought of 1075:are available on Google Books: 233:the cited work taken as a whole. 29: 4860:Transmission of textile designs 4720:, when an article is entitled " 2973:"French historian Jean Richard" 2276:. University of Chicago Press. 1990:You may wish to browse through 1829:, instead of using the heading 405:for allegedly insulting Islam ( 4898:, second half of 14th century. 4431:19:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC) 4412:17:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC) 4322:or some other central place? 3760:Christianity among the Mongols 3749:(appears to be a duplicate of 3083:, and the discussion moved to 2171:. Greenwood Publishing Group. 1: 5015:The Knights Hospitaller, p.45 4686:21:35, 27 February 2010 (UTC) 4667:21:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC) 4633:16:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC) 4618:23:13, 27 February 2010 (UTC) 4578:14:28, 27 February 2010 (UTC) 4559:21:13, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 4471:19:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 4388:16:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC) 4372:16:00, 5 September 2008 (UTC) 3450:01:33, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 3435:01:02, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 3423:00:39, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 3404:00:23, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 3391:00:00, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 3362:in favour of maintaining the 3339:23:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC) 3324:22:08, 25 February 2010 (UTC) 3302:05:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC) 3260:04:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC) 3233:22:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC) 3182:20:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC) 3159:21:35, 16 February 2010 (UTC) 3140:15:10, 16 February 2010 (UTC) 3119:Timurid relations with Europe 3075:07:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC) 3055:00:17, 15 February 2010 (UTC) 3026:20:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC) 3000:19:56, 11 February 2010 (UTC) 2962:19:42, 11 February 2010 (UTC) 2515:captured children and women." 2113:The Knights Hospitaller, p.45 1811:should have concise captions. 1712:12:24, 24 December 2008 (UTC) 1679:20:21, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1665:18:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1642:15:55, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1628:15:52, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1614:15:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1565:15:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1532:14:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1511:14:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1104:11:58, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1046:08:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 1000:08:07, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 961:07:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 945:Pseudo-Kufic in Byzantine art 915:07:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 868:06:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 822:05:07, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 800:03:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 774:02:48, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 759:21:10, 13 December 2008 (UTC) 485:16:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC) 340:18:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 304:05:36, 30 November 2008 (UTC) 4358:I just made some changes to 3622:Abu Sa'id (Ilkhanid dynasty) 3542:22:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC) 3510:23:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC) 3493:20:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC) 3146:#List of articles for review 2902:17:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2821:08:34, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2787:08:15, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2772:07:06, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2754:06:18, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2714:06:07, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2695:05:53, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2629:05:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2614:02:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC) 2585:22:06, 8 February 2010 (UTC) 2566:21:55, 8 February 2010 (UTC) 2411:23:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC) 2390:21:37, 8 February 2010 (UTC) 2270:Christopher Tyerman (1996). 2073:21:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) 2038:21:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC) 2005:17:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC) 1849:American or British spelling 1780:21:09, 23 January 2009 (UTC) 1726:allied with the Mongols? --- 1159:, and the Mongol capital of 551:travel passes such as those 460:21:39, 9 December 2008 (UTC) 393:), were executed in 1321 in 360:21:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC) 172:22:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC) 111:11:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC) 5012:Helen J. Nicholson (2001). 4992:. Oxford University Press. 4351:04:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC) 4331:20:31, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 4324:Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance 4079:Mongol raids into Palestine 3674:Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia 3569:List of articles for review 2808:Mongol raids into Palestine 2802:Mongol raids into Palestine 2701:Mongol raids into Palestine 2572:Mongol raids into Palestine 2328:. Oxford University Press. 2250:. Oxford University Press. 2165:Richard A. Gabriel (2002). 2110:Helen J. Nicholson (2001). 2046:Battle of Wadi al-Khazandar 1994:for further ideas. Thanks, 1980:Knowledge (XXG)'s best work 1765:16:09, 5 January 2009 (UTC) 1736:00:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC) 1724:Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia 18:Talk:Franco-Mongol alliance 5123: 5038:Michael Prestwich (1988). 4983:J. R. S. Phillips (1998). 4944:16:55, 14 March 2010 (UTC) 4194:Siamese revolution of 1688 4003:Latin Patriarch of Antioch 3871:Hethum II, King of Armenia 3549:(followup) Per the recent 3531:Does that sound doable? -- 2648:"The Mongols then overran 2241:J. R. S. Phillips (1998). 2139:Michael Prestwich (1988). 2079:"The Mongols then overran 1493:Will you never learn what 285:Motion to review sanctions 280:17:40, 22 March 2008 (UTC) 256:01:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 196:00:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC) 139:the proposed decision page 4957:Andrew Jotischky (2004). 4855:09:38, 3 March 2010 (UTC) 4826:09:26, 3 March 2010 (UTC) 4799:02:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC) 4712:02:29, 2 March 2010 (UTC) 4696:00:27, 2 March 2010 (UTC) 4072:Mongol invasion of Europe 3930:Jayme Alaric de Perpignan 3864:Hethum I, King of Armenia 3846:Guy of Ibelin (died 1304) 3737:Byzantine-Mongol alliance 3723:Buddhism and Christianity 3098:14:05, 3 April 2010 (UTC) 2191:Andrew Jotischky (2004). 1965:ways to turn them green.” 531:The hem band on Giotto's 520:, or in the paintings of 445:20:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC) 121:the arbitration talk page 5018:. Boydell & Brewer. 4894:textile, silk and gold, 4280:(active dispute at talk) 4278:Viam agnoscere veritatis 4054:Michael VIII Palaiologos 3951:Jean Richard (historian) 3709:Battle of Baghdad (1258) 3564:16:41, 4 July 2008 (UTC) 3106:More articles for review 2116:. Boydell & Brewer. 1249:Coronation of the Virgin 1245:Coronation of the Virgin 1202:Coronation of the Virgin 4749:was the objective of a 4248:Sempad, King of Armenia 4224:Siege of Tripoli (1271) 4159:Principality of Antioch 4024:Leo II, King of Armenia 3771:Catholic Church in Asia 3744:Catholic Church in Asia 3730:Buscarello de Ghizolfi 3681:Armeno-Mongol relations 3650:Amalric, Prince of Tyre 3312:Franco-Mongol relations 3239:Franco-Mongol relations 3206:Franco-Mongol relations 3189:Franco-Mongol relations 3170:Franco-Mongol relations 1747:Armeno-Mongol relations 1550:Original interpretation 745:and skirts the edge of 569:Church of San Francesco 5090:Peter Jackson (2005). 4899: 4884: 4771: 4747:Franco-Mongol alliance 4728:Franco-Mongol alliance 4722:Franco-Mongol alliance 4531: 4510:Franco-Mongol alliance 4500:Franco-Mongol alliance 4033:Mamluk-Mongol alliance 3716:Bohemond VI of Antioch 3364:Franco-Mongol alliance 3304: 3270:Franco-Mongol alliance 3193:Franco-Mongol alliance 2667: 2534: 2370: 2348:Peter Jackson (2005). 1992:User:AndyZ/Suggestions 1831:==Magellan's journey== 1553:not directly supported 1490: 1224: 1209: 1190: 1136: 735: 540: 524:and related painters. 509: 375: 5096:. Pearson Education. 5064:David Morgan (1990). 4963:. Pearson Education. 4890: 4867: 3958:Jesuit China missions 3830:Guillaume de Villaret 3779:Christianity in China 3576:Articles that are in 2354:. Pearson Education. 2322:Colin Morris (2005). 2296:David Morgan (1990). 2197:. Pearson Education. 1791:Automated peer review 1221:Ambrogio Lorenzetti's 1215: 1196: 1185: 1119: 951:on the other? Cheers 530: 500: 373: 42:of past discussions. 4673:User:Elonka/FMA lead 4271:Tommaso Ugi di Siena 4201:Siege of Acre (1291) 4187:Sempad the Constable 3965:John of Montecorvino 3885:History of gunpowder 3767:Christianity in Asia 3751:Christianity in Asia 3695:Ascelin of Lombardia 3243:consensus can change 1948:redundancy exercises 1743:Mongols and the West 899:Northern Renaissance 633:John of Montecorvino 5070:. Wiley-Blackwell. 4447:Good article review 4360:Philip IV of France 4114:Philip IV of France 3809:Edward I of England 3702:Battle of Ain Jalut 3666:Arab-Norman culture 3659:André de Longjumeau 3349:1: Request for move 2399:Elonka-PHG alliance 2302:. Wiley-Blackwell. 380:Ambrogio Lorenzetti 378:A nice painting by 5067:The Mongols, p.185 4900: 4885: 4397:Louis IX of France 4017:Louis IX of France 3583:Articles that are 3314:would be better.-- 3272:title are located 2299:The Mongols, p.185 1827:Ferdinand Magellan 1797:javascript program 1646:I know there's an 1409:Rosamond E. Mack, 1266:Mack, Rosamond E. 1225: 1210: 1191: 1187:Pope Boniface VIII 1137: 722:Mack, Rosamond E. 541: 510: 376: 261:ArbCom enforcement 4875:, silk and gold, 4840:Incidents section 4306: 4305: 4255:Sorghaghtani Beki 4240:Simeon Rabban Ata 3937:Jean II de Giblet 3857:Hayton of Corycus 3754: 3433: 3023: 2959: 2656:and occupied the 2454:Reuven Amitai in 2087:and occupied the 2015:Neutrality issues 1700:detailed analysis 1555:by the source. -- 1421: 1163:, established by 583:(1320-1330), the 581:Madonna and Child 533:Madonna and Child 397:on the island of 327:proposed decision 183:Decision talkpage 133:the workshop page 127:the evidence page 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 5114: 5107: 5106: 5087: 5081: 5080: 5061: 5055: 5054: 5035: 5029: 5028: 5009: 5003: 5002: 4980: 4974: 4973: 4954: 4934: 4931: 4928: 4925: 4789: 4786: 4783: 4780: 4657: 4654: 4651: 4648: 4608: 4605: 4602: 4599: 4549: 4546: 4543: 4540: 4418:Rabban bar Sauma 4288:(active dispute) 4242:(active dispute) 4208:Siege of Bangkok 4166:Rabban Bar Sauma 4135:Pope Honorius IV 4010:Laurent Dailliez 3921:Jacques de Molay 3839:Guiscard Bustari 3748: 3668:(active dispute) 3631:Aïbeg and Serkis 3608: 3432: 3408:Maybe consensus 3381: 3378: 3375: 3372: 3357:3: Article title 3293: 3290: 3287: 3284: 3223: 3220: 3217: 3214: 3021: 2990: 2987: 2984: 2981: 2957: 2892: 2889: 2886: 2883: 2873:Elonka, this is 2744: 2741: 2738: 2735: 2685: 2682: 2679: 2676: 2556: 2553: 2550: 2547: 2532: 2365: 2364: 2345: 2339: 2338: 2319: 2313: 2312: 2293: 2287: 2286: 2267: 2261: 2260: 2238: 2232: 2214: 2208: 2207: 2188: 2182: 2181: 2162: 2156: 2155: 2136: 2127: 2126: 2107: 2063: 2060: 2057: 2054: 1964: 1958: 1485: 1482: 1476: 1473: 1467: 1464: 1458: 1455: 1449: 1446: 1440: 1437: 1431: 1414: 1407: 1401: 1398: 1392: 1371: 1365: 1356: 1350: 1347: 1341: 1340:Mack, p.18, p.35 1338: 1332: 1329: 1323: 1316: 1310: 1307: 1301: 1293: 1230:The Annunciation 1169:Cilician Armenia 1129:The Annunciation 842:, but rather to 708: 705: 699: 698:Mack, p.52, p.69 696: 690: 687: 681: 678: 672: 669: 663: 660: 654: 651: 645: 642: 636: 629: 623: 620: 614: 611: 207:arbitration case 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 5122: 5121: 5117: 5116: 5115: 5113: 5112: 5111: 5110: 5103: 5089: 5088: 5084: 5077: 5063: 5062: 5058: 5051: 5041:Edward I, p.331 5037: 5036: 5032: 5025: 5011: 5010: 5006: 4999: 4982: 4981: 4977: 4970: 4956: 4955: 4951: 4941: 4932: 4929: 4926: 4923: 4883:, 14th century. 4862: 4842: 4796: 4787: 4784: 4781: 4778: 4766:Seventh Crusade 4664: 4655: 4652: 4649: 4646: 4615: 4606: 4603: 4600: 4597: 4556: 4547: 4544: 4541: 4538: 4526:Seventh Crusade 4512:consisted in a 4443: 4315: 4307: 4264:Templar of Tyre 4121:Pope Clement IV 4086:Nerses Balients 3980:Knights Templar 3816:Fall of Tripoli 3571: 3520:and </s: --> 3473: 3388: 3379: 3376: 3373: 3370: 3345:3 times already 3300: 3291: 3288: 3285: 3282: 3230: 3221: 3218: 3215: 3212: 3166: 3124:Ruad expedition 3108: 3079:(followup) The 3036: 2997: 2988: 2985: 2982: 2979: 2934: 2899: 2890: 2887: 2884: 2881: 2751: 2742: 2739: 2736: 2733: 2692: 2683: 2680: 2677: 2674: 2634:Thank you Adam! 2563: 2554: 2551: 2548: 2545: 2533: 2523: 2369: 2368: 2361: 2347: 2346: 2342: 2335: 2321: 2320: 2316: 2309: 2295: 2294: 2290: 2283: 2269: 2268: 2264: 2257: 2240: 2239: 2235: 2215: 2211: 2204: 2190: 2189: 2185: 2178: 2164: 2163: 2159: 2152: 2142:Edward I, p.331 2138: 2137: 2130: 2123: 2109: 2108: 2101: 2070: 2061: 2058: 2055: 2052: 2017: 1960: 1954: 1935:(B) (American: 1911:(B) (American: 1855:(B) (American: 1793: 1719: 1489: 1488: 1483: 1479: 1474: 1470: 1465: 1461: 1456: 1452: 1447: 1443: 1438: 1434: 1408: 1404: 1399: 1395: 1372: 1368: 1357: 1353: 1348: 1344: 1339: 1335: 1330: 1326: 1317: 1313: 1308: 1304: 1294: 1290: 1285: 1284: 1263: 1262: 1253:Paolo Veneziano 1206:Paolo Veneziano 1149:panni tartarici 1114: 1113: 1068: 844:Renaissance art 719: 718: 712: 711: 706: 702: 697: 693: 688: 684: 679: 675: 670: 666: 661: 657: 652: 648: 643: 639: 630: 626: 621: 617: 612: 608: 603: 602: 577:The Crucifixion 495: 494: 468: 368: 311: 287: 263: 205:(followup) The 203: 201:ArbCom decision 90: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5120: 5118: 5109: 5108: 5101: 5082: 5075: 5056: 5049: 5030: 5023: 5004: 4997: 4975: 4968: 4948: 4946: 4939: 4861: 4858: 4841: 4838: 4837: 4836: 4835: 4834: 4833: 4832: 4831: 4830: 4829: 4828: 4810: 4809: 4808: 4807: 4806: 4805: 4804: 4803: 4802: 4801: 4794: 4772: 4740: 4662: 4625: 4624: 4623: 4622: 4621: 4620: 4613: 4554: 4532: 4503: 4483: 4482: 4481: 4479: 4442: 4439: 4438: 4437: 4436: 4435: 4434: 4433: 4399:to the throne. 4356: 4355: 4354: 4353: 4314: 4311: 4304: 4303: 4300: 4299: 4290: 4282: 4274: 4267: 4260: 4251: 4244: 4236: 4227: 4220: 4213: 4204: 4197: 4190: 4183: 4176: 4169: 4162: 4155: 4146: 4143:Pope John XXII 4139: 4131: 4128:Pope Clement V 4124: 4117: 4110: 4103: 4096: 4089: 4082: 4075: 4068: 4059: 4058: 4057: 4050: 4043: 4036: 4029: 4020: 4013: 4006: 3999: 3992: 3985: 3976: 3968: 3961: 3954: 3947: 3944:Jean-Paul Roux 3940: 3933: 3926: 3917: 3914:Isol the Pisan 3910: 3902: 3895: 3888: 3881: 3874: 3867: 3860: 3851: 3850: 3849: 3842: 3835: 3826: 3819: 3812: 3805: 3798: 3795:David of Ashby 3791: 3788:David and Marc 3784: 3775: 3763: 3756: 3740: 3733: 3726: 3719: 3712: 3705: 3698: 3691: 3684: 3677: 3670: 3662: 3655: 3646: 3643:Alain Demurger 3639: 3635:active dispute 3627: 3618: 3606: 3605: 3604: 3603: 3602: 3599: 3592: 3581: 3570: 3567: 3551:ArbCom request 3547: 3546: 3545: 3544: 3526: 3525: 3524: 3523: 3479:has indicated 3472: 3469: 3467: 3465: 3464: 3463: 3462: 3461: 3460: 3459: 3458: 3457: 3456: 3455: 3454: 3453: 3452: 3393: 3386: 3298: 3265: 3264: 3263: 3262: 3228: 3165: 3162: 3127: 3126: 3121: 3107: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3101: 3100: 3035: 3032: 3031: 3030: 3029: 3028: 3003: 3002: 2995: 2933: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2921: 2920: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2908: 2907: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2897: 2846: 2845: 2844: 2843: 2842: 2841: 2840: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2828: 2827: 2826: 2825: 2824: 2823: 2749: 2690: 2643: 2642: 2641: 2594: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2588: 2587: 2561: 2521: 2516: 2511: 2506: 2502: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2491: 2490: 2489: 2466: 2465: 2464: 2463: 2462: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2451: 2443: 2442: 2441: 2440: 2439: 2438: 2418: 2417: 2416: 2415: 2414: 2413: 2367: 2366: 2359: 2340: 2333: 2314: 2307: 2288: 2281: 2262: 2255: 2233: 2209: 2202: 2183: 2176: 2157: 2150: 2128: 2121: 2098: 2097: 2076: 2075: 2068: 2016: 2013: 1988: 1987: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1966: 1940: 1927:(A) (British: 1919:(A) (British: 1903:(A) (British: 1895:(A) (British: 1887:(A) (British: 1879:(A) (British: 1871:(A) (British: 1863:(A) (British: 1845: 1838: 1819: 1812: 1792: 1789: 1787: 1785: 1784: 1783: 1782: 1718: 1715: 1696: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1683: 1682: 1681: 1597:revolutionized 1591:... so we are 1572: 1571: 1570: 1569: 1568: 1567: 1546:cherry picking 1537: 1536: 1535: 1534: 1487: 1486: 1477: 1468: 1459: 1450: 1441: 1432: 1402: 1393: 1383:Sino-Mongolian 1366: 1351: 1342: 1333: 1324: 1311: 1302: 1287: 1286: 1283: 1280: 1279: 1278: 1277: 1261: 1258: 1257: 1255:(circa 1350). 1234:Simone Martini 1133:Simone Martini 1112: 1109: 1108: 1067: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1009: 1008: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1003: 1002: 974: 973: 972: 971: 970: 969: 968: 967: 966: 965: 964: 963: 926: 925: 924: 923: 922: 921: 920: 919: 918: 917: 877: 876: 875: 874: 873: 872: 871: 870: 829: 828: 827: 826: 825: 824: 805: 804: 803: 802: 788:User:Kafka Liz 777: 776: 734: 733: 717: 714: 713: 710: 709: 700: 691: 682: 673: 664: 655: 646: 637: 624: 615: 605: 604: 601: 598: 597: 565:Pope Gregory I 493: 490: 489: 467: 464: 463: 462: 367: 364: 363: 362: 310: 307: 286: 283: 262: 259: 243: 242: 238: 234: 230: 227: 202: 199: 175: 174: 158: 157: 149: 148: 144: 143: 142: 141: 135: 129: 123: 89: 86: 83: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 5119: 5104: 5099: 5095: 5094: 5086: 5083: 5078: 5073: 5069: 5068: 5060: 5057: 5052: 5047: 5043: 5042: 5034: 5031: 5026: 5021: 5017: 5016: 5008: 5005: 5000: 4995: 4991: 4990: 4987: 4979: 4976: 4971: 4966: 4962: 4961: 4953: 4950: 4947: 4945: 4942: 4937: 4936: 4935: 4918: 4913: 4909: 4905: 4897: 4893: 4889: 4882: 4878: 4874: 4870: 4866: 4859: 4857: 4856: 4853: 4848: 4839: 4827: 4824: 4820: 4819: 4818: 4817: 4816: 4815: 4814: 4813: 4812: 4811: 4800: 4797: 4792: 4791: 4790: 4774:Best regards 4773: 4770: 4769: 4767: 4763: 4759: 4758:rapprochement 4756: 4752: 4748: 4741: 4738: 4735: 4734:User:Kanguole 4731: 4729: 4723: 4719: 4715: 4714: 4713: 4710: 4707: 4704: 4699: 4698: 4697: 4694: 4689: 4688: 4687: 4684: 4681: 4678: 4674: 4670: 4669: 4668: 4665: 4660: 4659: 4658: 4641: 4640:rapprochement 4637: 4636: 4635: 4634: 4631: 4619: 4616: 4611: 4610: 4609: 4592: 4587: 4586: 4585:rapprochement 4581: 4580: 4579: 4576: 4573: 4570: 4566: 4562: 4561: 4560: 4557: 4552: 4551: 4550: 4533: 4530: 4529: 4527: 4523: 4519: 4515: 4511: 4504: 4501: 4497: 4493: 4492:User:Kanguole 4489: 4484: 4480: 4477: 4476: 4475: 4474: 4473: 4472: 4469: 4466: 4463: 4459: 4455: 4452: 4448: 4440: 4432: 4429: 4426: 4423: 4419: 4415: 4414: 4413: 4409: 4405: 4400: 4398: 4391: 4390: 4389: 4386: 4383: 4380: 4376: 4375: 4374: 4373: 4369: 4365: 4361: 4352: 4349: 4346: 4343: 4338: 4334: 4333: 4332: 4329: 4325: 4321: 4317: 4316: 4312: 4310: 4302: 4298: 4297: 4295: 4291: 4289: 4287: 4283: 4281: 4279: 4275: 4273: 4272: 4268: 4266: 4265: 4261: 4259: 4258: 4256: 4252: 4250: 4249: 4245: 4243: 4241: 4237: 4235: 4234: 4232: 4228: 4226: 4225: 4221: 4219: 4218: 4217:Siege of Ruad 4214: 4212: 4211: 4209: 4205: 4203: 4202: 4198: 4196: 4195: 4191: 4189: 4188: 4184: 4182: 4181: 4177: 4175: 4174: 4170: 4168: 4167: 4163: 4161: 4160: 4156: 4154: 4153: 4151: 4147: 4145: 4144: 4140: 4138: 4136: 4132: 4130: 4129: 4125: 4123: 4122: 4118: 4116: 4115: 4111: 4109: 4108: 4104: 4102: 4101: 4100:Ninth Crusade 4097: 4095: 4094: 4090: 4088: 4087: 4083: 4081: 4080: 4076: 4074: 4073: 4069: 4067: 4066: 4065:Mongol Empire 4062: 4061: 4060: 4056: 4055: 4051: 4049: 4048: 4044: 4042: 4041: 4037: 4035: 4034: 4030: 4028: 4026: 4025: 4021: 4019: 4018: 4014: 4012: 4011: 4007: 4005: 4004: 4000: 3998: 3997: 3993: 3991: 3990: 3986: 3984: 3982: 3981: 3977: 3975: 3973: 3969: 3967: 3966: 3962: 3960: 3959: 3955: 3953: 3952: 3948: 3946: 3945: 3941: 3939: 3938: 3934: 3932: 3931: 3927: 3925: 3924: 3922: 3918: 3916: 3915: 3911: 3909: 3907: 3903: 3901: 3900: 3896: 3894: 3893: 3889: 3887: 3886: 3882: 3880: 3879: 3875: 3873: 3872: 3868: 3866: 3865: 3861: 3859: 3858: 3854: 3853: 3852: 3848: 3847: 3843: 3841: 3840: 3836: 3834: 3833: 3831: 3827: 3825: 3824: 3820: 3818: 3817: 3813: 3811: 3810: 3806: 3804: 3803: 3799: 3797: 3796: 3792: 3790: 3789: 3785: 3783: 3782: 3780: 3776: 3774: 3772: 3769:(merged with 3768: 3764: 3762: 3761: 3757: 3755: 3752: 3747: 3745: 3741: 3739: 3738: 3734: 3732: 3731: 3727: 3725: 3724: 3720: 3718: 3717: 3713: 3711: 3710: 3706: 3704: 3703: 3699: 3697: 3696: 3692: 3690: 3689: 3685: 3683: 3682: 3678: 3676: 3675: 3671: 3669: 3667: 3663: 3661: 3660: 3656: 3654: 3653: 3651: 3647: 3645: 3644: 3640: 3638: 3636: 3632: 3628: 3626: 3625: 3623: 3619: 3617: 3616: 3612: 3611: 3610: 3609: 3600: 3597: 3593: 3590: 3586: 3582: 3579: 3575: 3574: 3573: 3572: 3568: 3566: 3565: 3562: 3559: 3556: 3552: 3543: 3540: 3537: 3534: 3530: 3529: 3528: 3527: 3518: 3513: 3512: 3511: 3508: 3505: 3502: 3497: 3496: 3495: 3494: 3490: 3486: 3482: 3478: 3470: 3468: 3451: 3448: 3445: 3442: 3438: 3437: 3436: 3431: 3426: 3425: 3424: 3420: 3416: 3411: 3407: 3406: 3405: 3402: 3398: 3394: 3392: 3389: 3384: 3383: 3382: 3365: 3361: 3358: 3354: 3350: 3346: 3342: 3341: 3340: 3337: 3334: 3331: 3327: 3326: 3325: 3321: 3317: 3313: 3308: 3307: 3306: 3305: 3303: 3301: 3296: 3295: 3294: 3277: 3276: 3271: 3261: 3258: 3255: 3252: 3248: 3244: 3240: 3236: 3235: 3234: 3231: 3226: 3225: 3224: 3207: 3203: 3201: 3198: 3197:rapprochement 3194: 3190: 3186: 3185: 3184: 3183: 3179: 3175: 3171: 3163: 3161: 3160: 3157: 3154: 3151: 3147: 3142: 3141: 3138: 3135: 3132: 3125: 3122: 3120: 3117: 3116: 3115: 3113: 3105: 3099: 3096: 3093: 3090: 3086: 3082: 3078: 3077: 3076: 3073: 3070: 3067: 3063: 3059: 3058: 3057: 3056: 3053: 3050: 3047: 3043: 3042: 3033: 3027: 3024: 3018: 3016: 3012: 3007: 3006: 3005: 3004: 3001: 2998: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2974: 2970: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2963: 2960: 2954: 2952: 2948: 2944: 2939: 2931: 2903: 2900: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2876: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2869: 2868: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2860: 2859: 2858: 2857: 2856: 2855: 2854: 2853: 2852: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2848: 2847: 2822: 2819: 2816: 2813: 2809: 2805: 2803: 2799: 2792: 2791: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2784: 2780: 2775: 2774: 2773: 2769: 2765: 2761: 2757: 2756: 2755: 2752: 2747: 2746: 2745: 2728: 2723: 2722: 2717: 2716: 2715: 2712: 2709: 2706: 2702: 2698: 2697: 2696: 2693: 2688: 2687: 2686: 2669: 2668: 2666: 2665: 2663: 2659: 2655: 2651: 2644: 2639: 2635: 2632: 2631: 2630: 2626: 2622: 2617: 2616: 2615: 2611: 2607: 2602: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2598: 2597: 2596: 2595: 2586: 2583: 2580: 2577: 2573: 2569: 2568: 2567: 2564: 2559: 2558: 2557: 2540: 2539: 2538: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2530: 2526: 2525:Eric H. Cline 2520: 2517: 2512: 2507: 2503: 2500: 2487: 2484: 2480: 2476: 2475:Eric H. Cline 2472: 2471: 2470: 2469: 2468: 2467: 2457: 2453: 2452: 2449: 2448: 2447: 2446: 2445: 2444: 2436: 2433: 2429: 2424: 2423: 2422: 2421: 2420: 2419: 2412: 2408: 2404: 2400: 2396: 2393: 2392: 2391: 2388: 2385: 2382: 2378: 2374: 2373: 2372: 2371: 2362: 2357: 2353: 2352: 2344: 2341: 2336: 2331: 2327: 2326: 2318: 2315: 2310: 2305: 2301: 2300: 2292: 2289: 2284: 2279: 2275: 2274: 2266: 2263: 2258: 2253: 2249: 2248: 2245: 2237: 2234: 2230: 2226: 2223: 2219: 2218:Les Templiers 2213: 2210: 2205: 2200: 2196: 2195: 2187: 2184: 2179: 2174: 2170: 2169: 2161: 2158: 2153: 2148: 2144: 2143: 2135: 2133: 2129: 2124: 2119: 2115: 2114: 2106: 2104: 2100: 2096: 2094: 2090: 2086: 2082: 2074: 2071: 2066: 2065: 2064: 2047: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2039: 2036: 2033: 2030: 2025: 2021: 2014: 2012: 2011: 2007: 2006: 2003: 2000: 1997: 1993: 1985: 1981: 1977: 1972: 1967: 1963: 1957: 1952: 1951: 1949: 1945: 1941: 1938: 1934: 1930: 1926: 1922: 1918: 1914: 1910: 1906: 1902: 1898: 1894: 1890: 1886: 1882: 1878: 1874: 1870: 1866: 1862: 1858: 1854: 1850: 1846: 1843: 1839: 1836: 1832: 1828: 1824: 1820: 1817: 1813: 1810: 1806: 1802: 1801: 1800: 1798: 1790: 1788: 1781: 1777: 1773: 1768: 1767: 1766: 1763: 1760: 1757: 1753: 1748: 1744: 1740: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1733: 1729: 1725: 1717:Mongol allies 1716: 1714: 1713: 1709: 1705: 1701: 1680: 1676: 1672: 1668: 1667: 1666: 1663: 1660: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1645: 1644: 1643: 1639: 1635: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1625: 1621: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1611: 1607: 1602: 1598: 1594: 1590: 1586: 1583: 1580: 1579: 1578: 1577: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1573: 1566: 1562: 1558: 1554: 1551: 1547: 1543: 1542: 1541: 1540: 1539: 1538: 1533: 1529: 1525: 1521: 1518: 1514: 1513: 1512: 1508: 1504: 1500: 1496: 1492: 1491: 1481: 1478: 1472: 1469: 1463: 1460: 1457:Mack, p.35-36 1454: 1451: 1445: 1442: 1436: 1433: 1429: 1425: 1420: 1417: 1412: 1406: 1403: 1397: 1394: 1391: 1389: 1384: 1380: 1376: 1375:Boniface VIII 1370: 1367: 1362: 1355: 1352: 1349:Mack, p.16-17 1346: 1343: 1337: 1334: 1328: 1325: 1321: 1315: 1312: 1306: 1303: 1299: 1292: 1289: 1281: 1276: 1273: 1269: 1265: 1264: 1259: 1256: 1254: 1250: 1246: 1242: 1237: 1235: 1231: 1222: 1218: 1214: 1208:(circa 1350). 1207: 1203: 1199: 1195: 1188: 1184: 1180: 1178: 1174: 1170: 1166: 1162: 1158: 1154: 1150: 1146: 1142: 1134: 1130: 1126: 1125:Angel Gabriel 1122: 1118: 1110: 1106: 1105: 1101: 1097: 1093: 1090: 1087: 1084: 1081: 1078: 1074: 1065: 1047: 1043: 1039: 1035: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1018: 1017: 1016: 1001: 997: 993: 988: 987: 986: 985: 984: 983: 982: 981: 980: 979: 978: 977: 976: 975: 962: 958: 954: 950: 946: 942: 938: 937: 936: 935: 934: 933: 932: 931: 930: 929: 928: 927: 916: 912: 908: 904: 903:Hosios Loukas 900: 895: 891: 887: 886: 885: 884: 883: 882: 881: 880: 879: 878: 869: 865: 861: 857: 853: 849: 845: 841: 840:Byzantine art 837: 836: 835: 834: 833: 832: 831: 830: 823: 819: 815: 811: 810: 809: 808: 807: 806: 801: 797: 793: 789: 785: 781: 780: 779: 778: 775: 771: 767: 763: 762: 761: 760: 756: 752: 748: 744: 740: 732: 729: 725: 721: 720: 715: 704: 701: 695: 692: 686: 683: 677: 674: 668: 665: 659: 656: 650: 647: 641: 638: 634: 628: 625: 619: 616: 610: 607: 599: 596: 594: 588: 586: 582: 578: 574: 570: 566: 562: 558: 554: 550: 546: 538: 534: 529: 525: 523: 519: 515: 507: 503: 499: 491: 487: 486: 482: 478: 474: 465: 461: 457: 453: 449: 448: 447: 446: 442: 438: 434: 432: 428: 423: 417: 414: 411: 407: 404: 400: 396: 392: 389: 385: 381: 372: 365: 361: 358: 355: 352: 348: 344: 343: 342: 341: 338: 335: 332: 328: 324: 320: 316: 308: 306: 305: 302: 299: 296: 292: 284: 282: 281: 278: 275: 272: 268: 260: 258: 257: 254: 251: 248: 239: 235: 231: 228: 225: 222: 219: 215: 212: 211: 210: 208: 200: 198: 197: 194: 191: 188: 184: 180: 173: 170: 167: 164: 160: 159: 155: 151: 150: 146: 145: 140: 136: 134: 130: 128: 124: 122: 118: 117: 115: 114: 113: 112: 109: 106: 103: 99: 95: 87: 80: 76: 74: 71: 69: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 5092: 5085: 5066: 5059: 5040: 5033: 5014: 5007: 4989: 4985: 4978: 4959: 4952: 4922: 4921: 4901: 4843: 4777: 4776: 4746: 4744: 4743: 4727: 4725: 4645: 4644: 4626: 4596: 4595: 4583: 4537: 4536: 4509: 4507: 4506: 4457: 4444: 4394: 4364:131.107.0.73 4357: 4336: 4308: 4301: 4292: 4284: 4276: 4269: 4262: 4253: 4246: 4238: 4229: 4222: 4215: 4206: 4199: 4192: 4185: 4178: 4171: 4164: 4157: 4150:Prester John 4148: 4141: 4133: 4126: 4119: 4112: 4105: 4098: 4091: 4084: 4077: 4070: 4063: 4052: 4045: 4038: 4031: 4022: 4015: 4008: 4001: 3994: 3987: 3978: 3970: 3963: 3956: 3949: 3942: 3935: 3928: 3919: 3912: 3904: 3897: 3890: 3883: 3876: 3869: 3862: 3855: 3844: 3837: 3828: 3821: 3814: 3807: 3802:Doquz Khatun 3800: 3793: 3786: 3777: 3765: 3758: 3742: 3735: 3728: 3721: 3714: 3707: 3700: 3693: 3686: 3679: 3672: 3664: 3657: 3648: 3641: 3629: 3620: 3613: 3595: 3594:Articles in 3584: 3577: 3548: 3517:undue weight 3474: 3466: 3409: 3369: 3368: 3359: 3344: 3281: 3280: 3274: 3267: 3211: 3210: 3167: 3143: 3128: 3109: 3039: 3037: 3010: 2978: 2977: 2972: 2968: 2942: 2935: 2880: 2879: 2874: 2794: 2732: 2731: 2720: 2719: 2673: 2672: 2647: 2646: 2633: 2544: 2543: 2528: 2518: 2513: 2508: 2504: 2496: 2478: 2455: 2427: 2398: 2394: 2350: 2343: 2324: 2317: 2298: 2291: 2272: 2265: 2247: 2243: 2236: 2217: 2212: 2193: 2186: 2167: 2160: 2141: 2112: 2078: 2051: 2050: 2024:undue weight 2018: 2008: 1989: 1961: 1955: 1944:redundancies 1936: 1932: 1928: 1924: 1920: 1916: 1912: 1908: 1904: 1900: 1896: 1892: 1888: 1884: 1880: 1876: 1872: 1868: 1864: 1860: 1856: 1852: 1834: 1830: 1794: 1786: 1742: 1720: 1697: 1600: 1596: 1592: 1588: 1552: 1516: 1495:undue weight 1480: 1471: 1462: 1453: 1444: 1435: 1410: 1405: 1396: 1387:"Silk" p.41 1386: 1382: 1369: 1354: 1345: 1336: 1327: 1314: 1305: 1298:Annunciation 1297: 1291: 1267: 1248: 1244: 1238: 1229: 1226: 1216: 1201: 1197: 1148: 1138: 1128: 1120: 1072: 1069: 1034:Pseudo-Kufic 941:Pseudo-Kufic 852:Pseudo-Kufic 784:Pseudo-Kufic 739:pseudo-Kufic 738: 736: 723: 703: 694: 685: 676: 667: 658: 649: 640: 627: 618: 609: 589: 580: 576: 557:Saint Jerome 548: 542: 532: 511: 502:Saint Jerome 469: 419: 409: 377: 312: 288: 264: 244: 220: 204: 176: 91: 78: 43: 37: 4716:Hummm, per 4565:the sources 4451:WP:MOSBEGIN 4404:Gnarlyhotep 3989:Kublai Khan 3892:Hulagu Khan 3585:crossed out 2936:I reverted 2810:article. -- 2779:Adam Bishop 2621:Adam Bishop 1982:. See also 1962:a number of 1835:==Journey== 1620:Adam Bishop 1584:. See also 1428:Tommaso Ugi 1171:harbour of 585:Virgin Mary 431:Tommaso Ugi 88:Arbitration 36:This is an 5102:0582368960 5076:0631175636 5050:0520062663 5024:0851158455 4998:0198207409 4969:0582418518 4751:diplomatic 4514:diplomatic 4313:Discussion 4040:Marco Polo 3908:(disputed) 3615:Abaqa Khan 3413:opinion.-- 3187:Hi Aldux! 3015:Cúchullain 3011:New Yorker 2951:Cúchullain 2875:wonderful! 2652:as far as 2486:0472113135 2435:0754659143 2360:0582368960 2334:0198269285 2308:0631175636 2282:0226820130 2256:0198207409 2225:2877479552 2203:0582418518 2177:0275978095 2151:0520062663 2122:0851158455 2083:as far as 1942:Watch for 1897:categorise 1893:categorize 1484:Mack, p.38 1475:Mack, p.37 1466:Mack, p.37 1448:Mack, p.35 1426:: perhaps 1419:0520221311 1400:Mack, p.38 1364:patterns." 1331:Mack, p.18 1320:Il-Khanids 1275:0520221311 1260:References 731:0520221311 716:References 689:Mack, p.61 680:Mack, p.61 671:Mack, p.54 653:Mack, p.52 644:Mack, p.61 553:Marco Polo 422:Il-Khanids 416:0520221311 4328:Jehochman 4294:Wang Khan 4231:Silk Road 4173:Rychaldus 3996:Kutlushah 3899:Ilkhanate 3591:questions 3360:everytime 3278:. Cheers 2938:this edit 2760:consensus 2662:Jerusalem 2658:Holy Land 2650:Palestine 2638:Jerusalem 2093:Jerusalem 2089:Holy Land 2081:Palestine 1933:programme 1929:programme 1873:favourite 1865:neighbour 1236:(1333). 1161:Sultaniya 1145:Il-Khanid 1094:. Cheers 561:Augustine 475:. Cheers 429::perhaps 329:pages. -- 79:Archive 6 73:Archive 5 68:Archive 4 60:Archive 1 4852:Kanguole 4823:Kanguole 4755:military 4693:Kanguole 4518:military 4488:alliance 4441:The lead 3589:WP:UNDUE 3477:Ealdgyth 3397:Ealdgyth 3112:coatrack 2764:Latebird 2606:Latebird 1937:program 1925:program 1881:organise 1877:organize 1869:favorite 1861:neighbor 1704:Latebird 1557:Latebird 1503:Latebird 1385:pattern" 1217:Fig. 160 890:'Pags Pa 848:'Pags Pa 743:WP:UNDUE 545:'Pags Pa 514:'Pags Pa 506:'Pags Pa 399:Salsette 323:workshop 319:evidence 309:New case 241:Commons. 224:contribs 4912:phoenix 4873:phoenix 4762:Mamluks 4730:was..." 4718:WP:LEAD 4591:Pyrrhic 4522:Mamluks 4496:WP:LEAD 4445:At the 4180:Samagar 4107:Öljaitü 3972:Kitbuqa 3596:italics 3485:Aramgar 2798:Tunisia 2531:, p.216 2458:, p.216 2229:English 1913:ization 1909:isation 1905:isation 1901:ization 1889:realise 1885:realize 1816:infobox 1601:clearly 1593:clearly 1198:Fig. 28 1177:Mamluks 1175:by the 1165:Öljaitü 1135:(1333). 1121:Fig. 23 992:Aramgar 907:Aramgar 792:Aramgar 751:Aramgar 567:in the 185:. 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