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musical sounds that emanate from something that would not be considered a musical instrument. He is displaying creativity in a very real sense. The fact that Zappa chose to use the bicycle as a percussion, string, and wind instrument is also significant, in my opinion. Towards the end of the sketch, Zappa has the orchestra join in. If one were to place that improvised piece into a genre, one might see that little piece as a revealing snapshot of what Zappa was to further develop in later years (and then again look at the humor in this sketch, but also realize that something very serious is being said - sound familiar?). Zappa was 22 when this was filmed. The sketch shows him displaying confidence (on a nationally broadcast TV show) and a knowledge of what he is about, and where he is headed. It also shows Steve Allen as understanding that his audience would see the sketch initially only for its humor, and Allen played to that. But Allen also acknowledged that he knew what Zappa was about at the end of the sketch. In my opinion, I think that this little video clip is very revealing, and deserves a place on the Frank Zappa page, likely as an external video link in the Early 1960s: Studio Z section. ...and the bicycle could possibly be added in the infobox to his list of musical instruments if an appropriate explanation could be used to support it. My thoughts and opinions. Additional thoughts? I will try to put the external video link into form a little later if no one gets to it before I do. I'll risk a revert on this one.
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up so that it would look presentable to viewers. The double brackets around "bicycle" were showing. My annotation, "minor cleanup of bicycle addition to instruments just so that reference would show properly - further attention needed" described my opinion that further attention is needed concerning the video clip. I believe that the clip belongs somewhere on the page (not where it was placed), because what Frank Zappa, at the age of 22, was saying, on a popular national TV show, about creativity is very significant. Both Frank Zappa's delivery of the message, and Steve Allen's reaction to what Frank Zappa was saying and doing are significant. Steve Allen was an accomplished musician in his own right, and his reaction, in my view, shows how something that is not within the norm can be difficult to accept by the general population. Steve Allen also displayed in his acknowledgement at the end of the clip that he understood what Frank Zappa was demonstrating. Could this video clip be seriously considered for inclusion on the Frank Zappa page, hopefully in a location that has context as opposed to being included merely as an external reference? Reference #34 (as of 11/7/10) refers to the show. Could this clip be inserted as an external video link in the Early 1960s: Studio Z section on the Frank Zappa page?
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Describing his political views, Frank Zappa categorized himself as a "practical conservative." He favored limited government and low taxes; he also stated that he approved of national defense, social security and other federal programs, but only if recipients of such programs are willing and able to pay for them. He favored capitalism, entrepreneurship and independent business, stating that musicians could make more from owning their own businesses than from collecting royalties. He opposed communism, stating "A system that doesn't allow ownership has–to put it mildly–a fatal design flaw."
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2011:. There's a clear quality improvement compared to DVdm's lowering of the quality in this particular discography. Also, look at many different artist and band templates. Do you really think bunching compilations, live albums and official releases together looks better than templates for other artists which are correctly formatted?
1933:, to me it looks like the consensus points the other way. You mention "formatting rules", yet there aren't any in this case. If I'm mistaken about these "rules", you're welcome to cite them as they appear on their respective pages. And I'd also like to point out that you just altered the discography page (which
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The Zappa template that displays all of his albums has now been split in to two sections- one for studio albums and one for live albums. This doesn't work, because many of Zappa's albums feature a mixture of studio and live tracks, which means that they cannot be classified as either studio albums or
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Describing his philosophical views, Zappa stated, "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'–in exchange for a
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What happened to the section on politics? Was this huge deletion related to Miles' unreliability? The text of the section was: "On commenting on Zappa's music, politics and philosophy, Barry Miles noted in 2004 that they cannot be separated: "It was all one; all part of his 'conceptual continuity'".
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Indeed, I don't dispute any of your edits. The article mentions Zappa's bicycle playing performance, so "Bicycle" could be included in the infobox's instrument section, although it would obviously require further explanation in context. A link to the video could be worth inclusion as an external link
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that had been entered by a non-registered user into the infobox on the Frank Zappa page on Nov 7, 2010 - Very late last night, I saw that the entry had been made by the non-registered user. I did not have time to evaluate where it should be located on the page. My edit was intended to clean the entry
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is more organized. No one can possibly claim that Zappa's discography is too large to not make a distinction between clearly categorized releases, or that the studio and live content is mixed so that there's no distinction, or that there are no live albums. There clearly is a distinction, so put the
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Okay, the borderline edit warring and constant reverting of both the template and the discography page is not jut disruptive, it also leads to inconsistencies and plain incorrect information. Right now, the template and the discography page follow different formats. The discography page was reverted
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WIkipedia is not about being right. It is about working together. What ends up in an article does not depend on whether someone is right or wrong. It depends on how the editors work together. You find the original formatting difficult to look at. We don't. That is just your problem. If no compromise
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The burden of proof lies with the editor: One has to prove that there is no copyright violation. If one cannot see any copyright notices, one cannot refer to the clip as the default is that unless proven otherwise, things are copyrighted (and fair use is not applicable here). I know several articles
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As far as I'm informed, no source on the Zappa discography makes a clear distinction between studio and live albums, they list them all together. The reason for this is simple: A clear distinction cannot be made because Zappa freely mixed live performances with studio performances, applied overdubs
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I'm afraid I'm going to open up a whole can of worms here, but does he really belong in this category? The category page says "American people who have categorically referred to themselves as libertarians, who adhere to any form of libertarian philosophy" and while FZ clearly held a lot of beliefs
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He labeled people on drugs "assholes in action", and he tried cannabis only a few times, but without any pleasure. He was a regular tobacco smoker for most of his life, and strongly critical of anti-tobacco campaigns. While Zappa disapproved of drug use, he criticized the War on Drugs, comparing it
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Note that video links are only allowed if you are certain that there is no copyrights to the clip. A link to the Steve Allen show was demanded to be taken out when the article underwent FA review. As for including "bicycle" in the infobox, I think it is unnecessary. The infobox should only name the
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Hyperbole. The subject of the articles being different doesn't change the guidelines. The point being, Pink Floyd have quality album articles, navigational templates, etc. You can't make it through the list of albums if it's all mixed together. It's cleaner to look at if studio and live albums are
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button. Expect some resistance though, as
Wisdomtenacityfocus has put quite some work in this. So before we do that, it might be a good idea to first notify the user on their talk page and let them know about possible plans to undo this, and invite them to comment here on this article talk page. I
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I was looking into the copyright issue, and that's why I hadn't continued with the edit. For my knowledge, could you provide me with some insight concerning the video clip issue? Possibly on my talk page? information such as what is required concerning documentation in order to use a video clip or
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This is standardized formatting for musician biographies and templates. Pink Floyd has also released albums which mix studio and live content, but if the content is predominately live or predominately studio, it is categorized as such. Arguing that "most of his albums mix content" doesn't cut it.
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It may be considered a one off gimmick, but I seriously think that a lot is being said in that sketch on a couple of different levels. Yes it is funny; the interplay between Allen and Zappa is comedic; and some might view the situation as somewhat absurd. But on another level, Zappa is displaying
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appears to have been against consensus) in a way that doesn't even match the template the way you yourself organized it. Not to mention that the discography article, unlike the template, needs no real reorganizing. It's all on Zappa's official discography, so making a bunch of different sections
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So instead of distinguishing between studio albums, live albums and compilations, we should distinguish between "official" albums (as listed on zappa.com) and "non-official" (but authorized) albums, i.e. the way it was´before this whole argument. What does bug me about this is the infobox on the
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any explanations). Otherwise it becomes overloaded (he also played toy accordion on a German documentary; very funny and said a lot about the man, but we really have to stop somewhere). Oh, and the bicycle incident is mentioned in the article, so I am afraid I fail to see any deficiencies here.
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Indeed, you are not disrupting at this moment. This page is watchlisted by 312 editors. Only 3 or 4 editors have commented on and objected to your edits, and luckily nobody seems interested in edit-warring over this. Personally, I'm not even interested in these (—in this case— i.m.o. silly)
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Okay, once again the template has been reverted to it's arbirarily-grouped state without any discussion. I've restored it to the version that is backed both by the official discography and what seems to be consensus. Does anyone have any thoughts to add on how to stop this? I'm
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is both a studio and a live album. That is no argument, to claim that these articles should be mixed up and disorganized because of a false notion that minor live content on some of the studio albums is significant enough to dismiss the importance of the fact that Zappa
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live albums. Examples of this would be "Weasels Ripped my Flesh", "Ship
Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch" and "Lather". The template should be changed back to display all of Zappa's albums together rather than split into different categories. --
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interested in turning this into an edit war, so regardless of anyone's personal opinions, can we discuss this? Obviously it's already been discussed into the ground, but if there are any arguments that haven't been put forth, they still should be heard.
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In other words, if, indeed like you claim, there is no consensus, then the situation should stay the way it was before you started working on it. Do you understand that you are working against this, and that the burden of convincing is upon you? -
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You obviously have put quite some work in this and in the individual album articles, and that work is appreciated, but on the template it really goes against Zappa's "incategorizability", and against consensus, so let's try to make the albums of
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As noted by multiple reviewers, Miles' biography of Zappa can be wildly inaccurate. Please make sure the claims cited in here can be backed up by other sources and are true. For example, Tony Palmer did not try to have his name removed from
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that are libertarian, he also held quite a few that were not. Also as far as I can tell, he always declined to call himself a libertarian when asked about his political beliefs. (Note -- this edit was reverted while I was writing this).
668:. I fully agree with that. Let's keep it this way. Deciding which album is live and which is studio, is not our job, and there is no policy about standardized formatting for musician templates that says that it should be. -
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First of all, I have to agree with the above statement 100%. I've just reworked the template into something that's hopefully more manageable and easier to navigate. Secondly, shouldn't this entire discussion be on the
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to a partially incorrect version (wrong release date for
Civilization Phaze III; Illegal, Immoral and Fattening mentioned as a cover album; the infobox at the top lists incorrect numbers). Something has to be done.
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I suggest that you undo that edit, unless you find one source that says that Ship is "a studio album and also a live album". If it is indeed a "a studio and live album", it does not belong in either of the current
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The clip is copyrighted of course, only way to feature it within the article (and not just as a link) would be through "fair use". But this is only used in circumstances where such media is vital to the article.
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discography page, which still distinguishes between studio, live and compilations. I don't know how that template works, but is there any way to set it up differently? That should solve all remaining problems. --
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You two ignore sources, album and style guidelines I presented. That's one thing, but removing large chunks of articles and cluttering the formatting to an unreadable state, as you two have done, is vandalism.
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As the template is used in quite a number of articles, including in this FA, I don't think it is silly to base oneself on basic policies to restore the original overview, for which the following rationale:
1915:. There's a clear distinction between these releases. Stop changing against formatting rules. Changing the organization against the rules downgrades the quality of the discography list and template. --
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promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government–it doesn't own you."" I think the article needs to retain some information about Zappa's expressed beliefs. What's going on?
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No, you are wrong, I am right. The formatting was only good after I changed it. The original formatting was difficult to look at. This is a very poor way of thanking me for improving the template. --
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break the copyright rules anyway, but in a FA article one has to obey strictly to the rules. Those really interested in seeing the clip can google it by themselves; it should be easy. Cheers, --
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disrupting
Knowledge (XXG). I am improving Knowledge (XXG). You don't seem to understand the difference. This is standard formatting to separate studio, live, compilation and box set albums. --
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Zappa's work is very hard to categorize and most albums —on which many individual tracks— contain bits of live and studio work. Sources generally fail to agree about whether an album is either
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says that it is "a studio and live album". It does not say that it is a "a studio album" and also "a live album". There are other albums like that, so that would need another category:
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categories, but be aware of the fact that some editors object to your point of view. Anyway, if putting things in boxes makes you happy, then by all means feel free to continue :-)
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etc. Any attempt to classify albums like
Weasels Ripped My Flesh, Drowning Witch, Them Or Us or Läther would constitute original research. A logical classification is certainly
866:, which is a live album, despite the overdubs (which, I have to point out, did not make several other '70s live rock albums studio releases despite containing overdubs). --
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albums are categorized. And clearly, to most people, it's cleaner for the live and studio albums to be separated, because the majority of templates have this formatting.
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I just added a section of the template that links to "Other
Compositions." Hopefully that'll clear it up. The section still needs work, but they've got a place to go.
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Zappa albums. This is precisely the reason why the split was not made before. The contributors who created and maintained the template knew what they were doing.
1218:) is problematic for two reasons. First, it reverts a lot more than what the edit summary suggests. Second, note that, for instance, Ben Watson writes in his
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That is the policy, and it is unambiguous. If you insist on working against that and still want to push your view, you have some tools at your disposal — see
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No problem. Yes, I already had reverted that edit. Indeed nowhere in the article libertarianism is mentioned, so there is no place for the category. Cheers -
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been any complaint. The Pink Floyd articles, discography and template are also better organized than Zappa's. That should point to something, doesn't it?
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I had decided to open a thread here, as this page has more than 300 watchers, whereas the template has less than 30 watchers, probably just a handfull.
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At one point during production, Mr. Palmer demanded that his name be removed from the credits of "200 MOTELS" out of concern for his career
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Do you think repeating the same thing over and over again even though it's not a valid point and it doesn't change standards will state your case? --
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I don't think you understand what vandalism is. Or ownership, for that matter. No one is claiming to own the article, and no one is vandalizing it.
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as much as possible, while avoiding undue categorization, which is probably bound to remain controversial. I.m.o. the thing to do, is to restore to
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Toward the end of principal photography, Mr. Palmer, in a fit of peek, threatened to erase all of the master video tapes of the movie.
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You are going against a long standing (de-facto consensus) version of the template. Three editors expressed objections. You might have a look at
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I don't think there is such a policy, nor do I think there are no such sources. If you have something notable —and well sourced— in mind, be
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separated. And don't say that many of Zappa's albums mix live and studio content, because there's a clear distinction between an album like
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1082:—, but instead come the talk page to discuss (D) and try to convince the rest of us. Failing that, the article stays the way it was -- see
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Wrong. YOU are ignoring consensus. Stop making the template look worse by mixing up live, studio, compilation and box set albums. Look at
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An issue with the template is that it does not include songs unless they are singles, yet there are articles for album only songs such as
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DVdm isn't claiming ownership. Neither are any of the people who disagree with you. Citing that policy is irrelevant to this discussion.
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to alcohol prohibition, and stated that the United States
Treasury would benefit from the decriminalization and regulation of drugs.
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That's not how edit warring works. What I reverted was, indeed vandalism, as it disrupted the correct recommended formatting. --
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So we go back to the original version. Repeatedly stating your preference does not make a
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I would edit the template back to how it was... but I don't know how, that's the problem. Is editing a template complex? --
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is it wikipedia policy to omit details about one's illness/death or are there no reliable sources in zappas case? thanks --
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because some people believe, personally, "it's all the same", when it's contradicted by actual guidelines and sources. --
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1286:* In discussions of textual additions or editorial alterations, a lack of consensus results in no change in the article.
1176:* In discussions of textual additions or editorial alterations, a lack of consensus results in no change in the article.
1006:. There is no policy about how albums should be categorised, so the way they are categorized here is purely a matter of
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That's a ludicrous statement to claim that the majority of Zappa's albums combine studio and live content. Look at the
749:") lists an album twice, both as studio and as live, which is (at least i.m.o.) downright silly. Note that the lead of
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thank you but i don't have sources about his illness. i was curious to know why it isn't mentioned in the article.--
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The outspoken preference of four (well, at least three) other editors to keep the long standing original version ((
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You think "it's cleaner to look at if studio and live albums are separated". I don't. The few other contributors (
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No one's deciding which albums are studio or live, it's stated outright by the sources. And the formatting
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I also suggest we revert to the original version. Can we have some input from other contributors here? -
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doesn't make sense. And please, please, please, for the love of god, can we keep this on the talk page?
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2007:, this is ludicrous. You can't claim that a discography page "needs no real organizing". Look at
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by any other sources. It's not
Knowledge (XXG) to invent a classification system out of nowhere.
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If you make a change which is good-faith reverted, do not simply reinstate your edit - leave the
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No, it's just that what happens in some article elsewhere, should have no effect on what happens
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Perhaps the contributors found that the details that got mentioned (and sourced) in the section
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i searched in this section but didn't read the details...indeed, it is sufficient. thank you.--
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rather than a reference, being part of Zappa's notable appearance with Steve Allen as a whole.
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Again, there is no consensus. Repeatedly stating such does not make it true. Sources identify
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was primarily studio with live elements and consisting largely of chamber music, while
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Personally, I'm not even interested in these (—in this case— i.m.o. silly) categories.
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content back to where it was when I improved it and stop enabling DVdm's vandalism. --
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music video on a page? I have seen them on pages, and they can be quite explanatory.
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About the YouTube video capture "Frank Zappa
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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I don't claim any ownership of anything. On the contrary, I already said that "
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Weasels was a collage of the Mothers in concert and in studios from all over...
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Also note that I have never reverted your edits on this matter. I tried to
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To see how albums that mix live and studio content should be handled, see
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of that. Input from other contributors here would be welcome as well. -
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Also, compilation albums can't be categorized with legit studio LPs.
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largely consists of rock songs and was largely recorded live. Thus,
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I'm not working against consensus, because there is no consensus. --
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as a studio album is i.m.o. downright silly, and in this case even
733:. That gets close to edit warring. Be careful. Also have a look at
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YouTube video capture "Frank Zappa Playing Music on a Bicycle 1963"
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edit made it not be a mess. And then anon made it a mess again. --
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is possible, then we go back to the original — see the policy at
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What you claim and what you do are two very different things. --
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Paraboloid. This is not about Pink Floyd. It is about Zappa. -
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wp:CONSENSUS#Consensus-building by soliciting outside opinions
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Knowledge (XXG):Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring
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for Knowledge (XXG). We need better. Book? Interview? -
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It was just a one off gimmick, so is it realy relevant?
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qualifies as a studio/live album in the same way that
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restored the original, long standing consensus version
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I think it's really silly that we're arguing about a
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to the template. An editor reverted (R) your action (
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839:This is not about Pink Floyd. It is about Zappa. -
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1471:Alternatively, we could fix the discography page.
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930:)) who have contributed don't either. Listing
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426:Sure, but that can hardly be considered as a
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331:Frank_Zappa#1990s:_Classical_music_and_death
301:and add it. Knowledge (XXG) is yours too.
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2009:the discographies that are featured lists
627:usually considered to be a studio album.
1600:It was not a "mess" as I had edited. It
1485:I don't think that is a good idea — see
563:by Gnuish dd. 15 jan 2012, before user
2235:A case about this matter was opened at
1630:users who prefer the original version:
956:No, it's not. Just look at the way the
2209:This is yet another false accusation.
1420:Knowledge (XXG):CONSENSUS#No_consensus
1281:Knowledge (XXG):CONSENSUS#No_consensus
1170:Knowledge (XXG):CONSENSUS#No_consensus
815:release straight up live albums, like
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1708:then I can only advise you to have a
7:
1887:) seems to ignore consensus, I have
1311:. Imagine if a real issue came up.--
858:, which is a studio album that has
587:pointing to here (])—, and hit the
369:Problems with using Miles biography
2015:has more releases than Zappa, and
1245:as a live album on the basis that
24:
1495:, as if nothing was said here. -
1449:into the handful of undisputable
623:is predominately studio content.
29:
1352:as it's half live, half studio.
1279:Again, the policy as stated in
1114:dispute resolution alternatives
1106:is established to make a change
469:Category: American Libertarians
1:
1672:11:59, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
1618:00:01, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
1594:23:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
1538:09:32, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
1523:23:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
1505:11:38, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
1481:01:54, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
1453:-related subdivisions of the
1020:have a policy about consensus
357:16:53, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
343:15:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
325:14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
311:12:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
292:09:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
262:12:44, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
247:18:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
229:01:04, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
202:23:43, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
1817:America Drinks and Goes Home
1467:20:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
1321:04:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
1299:10:04, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
1271:22:21, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
1236:10:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
1208:(undoing two separate edits
1198:09:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
1144:07:15, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
1130:22:03, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
1108:. Instead of engaging in an
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171:16:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
152:15:05, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
137:14:11, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
122:14:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
1437:match the overview article
499:14:04, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
484:13:45, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
464:16:41, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
388:16:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
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1829:21:35, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
1806:13:35, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
1790:21:31, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
1768:09:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
1604:a mess, until I fixed it.
1341:Studio, with live elements
1337:Live, with studio elements
396:, he did, apparently:
2257:15:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
2223:17:47, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
2201:17:08, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
2185:20:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
2167:20:02, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
2144:19:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
2129:19:14, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
2095:17:11, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
2060:19:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
2030:19:09, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
1986:07:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
1969:reported for edit warring
1948:02:01, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
1925:01:00, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
1907:10:49, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
1730:21:45, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
1702:If you really think that
1686:20:16, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
1361:Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
890:Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
580:diff between now and then
542:Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
512:Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
440:18:24, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
420:17:39, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
2211:Warned on your talk page
1819:and others. What to do?
1582:Off for the weekend now.
1079:here without any comment
730:reverted without comment
1439:Frank Zappa discography
1283:, second bullet, says:
1257:is a studio album, and
1096:If there is a dispute,
1014:— and please note that
619:is predominately live.
617:Weasels Ripped My Flesh
1642:. You reverted twice (
1288:
1178:
1118:
1054:: you made a bold (B)
755:studio and live albums
662:I notice that someone
2111:Ownership of articles
1716:and, while at it, at
1186:wp:Dispute resolution
184:central instruments (
42:of past discussions.
2117:WP:Article ownership
1578:Template:Frank Zappa
1489:. I notice that you
1435:Template:Frank Zappa
1247:Burnt Weeny Sandwich
821:Tinseltown Rebellion
1954:Wisdomtenacityfocus
1875:Wisdomtenacityfocus
1261:is a live album. --
1220:Negative dialectics
792:Template:Pink Floyd
565:Wisdomtenacityfocus
1778:template talk page
1705:this is vandalism,
1205:this recent revert
1076:again —as you did
862:live content, and
727:I notice that you
428:wp:reliable source
2241:opening statement
2115:DVdm, please see
1780:instead of here?
1583:
1556:. I just noticed
1451:decade-of-release
1347:as a live album,
1184:and, in general,
1172:, second bullet:
1012:against consensus
790:article, and the
561:this last version
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2013:Miles Davis
1559:this revert
1418:The policy
1255:Burnt Weeny
764:categories.
525:I agree. -
36:This is an
2136:Friginator
2052:Friginator
2005:Friginator
1940:Friginator
1929:Actually,
1860:Friginator
1835:Friginator
1796:Good job.
1782:Friginator
1750:, but not
1639:Friginator
1492:went ahead
1100:status quo
1092:status quo
1074:not revert
958:Pink Floyd
595:taken care
585:explicitly
376:200 Motels
189:Cheers. --
95:Archive 10
1913:WP:Albums
1104:consensus
940:wp:POINTY
808:Ummagumma
796:Ummagumma
788:Ummagumma
742:This edit
704:Ummagumma
589:Save Page
394:this site
90:Archive 9
85:Archive 8
79:Archive 7
73:Archive 6
68:Archive 5
60:Archive 1
2231:DRN case
1964:contribs
1885:contribs
1873:As user
1821:FunkMonk
1752:verified
1748:possible
1626:That is
1574:contribs
1562:by anon
1487:wp:POINT
1413:contribs
1399:contribs
1385:contribs
1371:contribs
1309:template
1110:edit war
928:contribs
914:contribs
900:contribs
575:contribs
408:unsigned
349:Severino
317:Severino
284:Severino
254:FunkMonk
144:FunkMonk
2173:discuss
1401:)) and
1259:Weasels
1251:Weasels
1243:Weasels
722:Remarks
456:Ph7five
299:wp:bold
278:Illness
237:HJensen
221:Doc2234
192:HJensen
186:without
163:Doc2234
114:Doc2234
39:archive
2239:. See
1554:Update
1455:Albums
1052:wp:BRD
735:wp:BRD
621:Lather
476:A13ean
2157:). -
1966:) is
1952:User
1576:) to
1509:I am
1339:, or
800:never
592:have
16:<
2253:talk
2249:DVdm
2247:. -
2243:and
2219:talk
2215:DVdm
2213:. -
2197:talk
2181:talk
2177:DVdm
2163:talk
2159:DVdm
2140:talk
2125:talk
2119:. --
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