Talk:Franklin D. Roosevelt/Archive 1

1262:

children of German or Italian immigrants, though some had been here for generations . It is true that American and International law (at least at the time) allows for the detainment of citizens of nations the country is at war with, the constitutionality of those laws can be debated, but they were on the books at the time. So, legally, America could detain immigrants from Germany or Japan or Italy etc. The problem is that many of these people were citizens of the United States, not resident aliens, hence the civil rights violation. As far as the German American Bund goes, they were never a "large organization." The Wiki article on them says at their peak they had at most 25,000 members and I've heard numbers lower than that. What influence they had they lost by the time the war started and were really at their peak in the mid 30's. Compare that to the number of German-Americans in the Communist Party or other leftist organizations and you will see how small the German American Bund was. Even amoung "radical" groups it had little influence over the German-American community. So that couldn't explain the dentention and the civil rights violations of hundreds of thousands. Very few of those detained had any contact with anything close to the Bund. I urge you to study the info for yourself, you'll see that almost all Europeans affected were completely innocent, just like the Japanese. (Don't get in a huff, I'm not comparing their situations, just saying that BOTH groups of people were unjustly detained.) I wonder why you are so hostile to mentioning this in the article ? It's 3 sentences while the Japanese internment has 3 paragraphs. It certainly is relavent to the article. FDR's horrible civil rights record is probibly his worse failure and this is another example of that. If you feel the need to re-write it some, go right ahead, but I do think (and I think most people would agree) that it is quite relavant.

1145:

children of German immigrants who, by law, were American citizens. Many were held up to FIVE YEARS AFTER THE WAR,(which was not done to the Japanese) and many, including citizens of the United States were deported. Heres a few quotes from Republican Senator Feingold's Senate Bill - "During World War II, the United States Government branded as `enemy aliens' more than 600,000 Italian-born and 300,000 German-born United States resident aliens and their families and required them to carry Certificates of Identification, limited their travel, and seized their personal property. At that time, these groups were the two largest foreign-born groups in the United States." "During World War II, the United States Government arrested, interned or otherwise detained thousands of European Americans, some remaining in custody for years after cessation of World War II hostilities, and repatriated, exchanged, or deported European Americans, including American-born children, to hostile, war-torn European Axis nations, many to be exchanged for Americans held in those nations." While this may not seem like as big of a deal to you as the Japanese internment, IT DID HAPPEN, and it deserves mention. At the very least it invalidates the statment - "It was striking that no similar steps were taken, or even suggested, against German-Americans and Italian-Americans." While not the same it is similar and deserves to be mentioned in the article. That statment in the article would make the reader assume that NOTHING happened to German and Italian Americans, which is completely incorrect.

1168:

fact only individuals actually suspected of Nazi or Fascist sympathies were interned." that is clearly incorrect. It seems like you think that since the German and other european internment wasn't as large as the Japanese was that it doesn't count as an internment. But an internment is an internment, simple as that. As far as the "qualitative" difference, I don't see how you could tell a german-american citizen who was held as a prisoner in a internment camp until 1950 then deported to a war torn and destroyed land that their suffering was any less than anyone else held in an american camp during World War 2. The fact is thousands of European-Americans were held in camps for as long as the government wanted without any consideration for the prisoners basic civil liberties and without any reasonable suspicion. Thats an internment no matter how you look at it. While the story of Japanese Internment is much more far reaching and extensive I don't think that bringing up the reality of European internment takes away from the Japanese internment in any way. While I thank you for adding a little info on the subject i would love to see a more well rounded explaination.

1085:

info for yourself and maybe you'll stop reverting my edits. It believe something like 11,000 German-Americans were held. While that is many many times less than the Number of Japanese held, it is still quite a few people, and while race certainly played a part in it, it is also important to note that we were not worried about an immenet German invasion, which would help explain the lower level of german internment. Also, many Germans were held well after the war, even longer than the Japanese. 11,000 is a considerable number and I believe qualifies as "mass internment." As the documentary on the History Channel mentions almost all of the Germans and Italians held WERE NOT, in any way, facsist. I would also like to say that I live in California, many of my friends Grandparents were interned and I've heard their stories, what they went through was a terrible chapter in American history. However, we cannot ignore the fact that other groups of American were treated unfairly during this period of time. I understand that you have spent quite a bit of time on this article but i simply wish to correct a factual error.

280:

wanted to bring the country into a war against Germany. The attack on Pearl Harbor, as it occurred, could very easily have derailed that had not the Germans obliged Roosevelt by declaring war. So the surprise attack did not particularly serve Roosevelt's goal of getting the US involved in war against Germany, and might very well have distracted it from that goal. Furthermore, and more basically - if the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor and the Navy had been ready for it, it's hard to imagine that the Navy being in a greater state of readiness would have somehow prevented the war. The whole argument is simply unconvincing, because it doesn't make sense on its face.

294:

really need more factual referencesand footnoting so that people can more easily draw their own conclusions. I'll note that I personally don't believe that Roosevelt knew the specifics of the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, but the theory is mainstream enough (and not quite as implausible as you suggest), that it shouldn't be entirely dismissed from the article. If you can compress the text as it stands and present more facts that contradict it, that would be great. I might do it myself when I find a big block of free time. Thanks for the feedback.

1408:"Contrary to popular belief, however, the Depression was not cured by Roosevelt's programs, collectively known as the New Deal. The economic theories of John Maynard Keynes were not widely known in the United States, and it is doubtful that Roosevelt ever knew of them. Even the large appropriations that Roosevelt extracted from Congress and spent on relief and assistance to industry were not enough to provide a sufficient fiscal stimulus to revive so large an economy as that of the United States." 31: 1202:

made clear in every single investigation that very very very few of the people held had any sympathy for the Nazi cause. The fact remians that these Americans were held in camps and that is extremely relavant to the article, regardless of your POV. I do plan to mention this in the article very soon and I hope that my edits will meet with your approval, becuase its clear that your opinion is the only one that matters.

1009:

necessarily fact. The tone of the next sentence ("He was not prepared to defend Japanese-American civil rights if it meant a fight with influential Democrats, or the Army, or the Hearst press, nor if it meant he might lose California to the Republicans in 1944") implies some degree of contempt for Roosevelt or for his policy on internment on the part of the author. This needs to be revised to conform to NPOV.

722:

semi-literate hodgepodge of trivia, conspiracy theories, irrelevant ramblings, and absolutely no historical context or even coherent narrative. Rather than snipe at me for not naming all the judges FDR appointed to the Supreme Court, why not ask the American history writers at Knowledge (XXG) (which I gather includes yourself) why they tolerated such a feeble excuse for a major article for so long?

1228:

describe were perfectly reasonable and were standard procedure in all beligerent countries (indeed in most countries resident enemy aliens were interned as a matter of course). If they were (b) then these restrictions may or may not have been justified, depending on the assessment made by the FBI of the danger they posed (don't forget there was a large pro-Nazi German organization called the

1446:

Great Depression. Historians and economists debate over the extent to which this is true." The statement that international trade was necessary for a full recovery and tariffs harmed the recovery is free-trade POV. How about starting that sentence with "Some argue that this was mainly because..." "Roosevelt's anti-Semitism"? How about "Roosevelt's alleged anti-Semitism"?

922:

Hitler and to help Britain and France. During 1939-41 he did everything he could to prepare US opinion to enter the war in Europe. Had Pearl Harbor not happened he would probably have done what Wilson did in 1917 - used a naval incident as a pretext for declaring war on Germany. I don't believe he wanted a war in the Pacific.

743:; 2nd. Franklin Delano Roosevelt; 3rd, Franklin Roosevelt. If I went looking, that's how I'd search. I might not remember, or know, Deleno, but I do remember that "D." Shorter names are more natural and "Franklin D." is just how he's spoken of commonly. (There are things about working "redirects" I don't understand.) 1333:

The current article emphasizes Japanese internment from California, but it really happened all over the west coast, including Canada. Of course, that's probably the sort of "trivia" you won't allow me to add (in blatant disregard for the text at the bottom of all edit windows "If you do not want your

1117:

I am quite happy to accept that 11,000 German-Americans were interred during the war. In a population of about 100 million at the time, and in a country where the Germans were the largest European ethnic minority apart from the Irish, it is a very small number. Clearly Germans (and the other European

145:

I deleted the puzzling reference to Winston Churchill as a "fellow freemason," since its inclusion gives the strong impression that the historic Casablanca conference was merely some kind of masonic conspiracy. While it is true that both FDR and WSC were freemasons, it is irrelevant to this article.

1269:

The section under "Posterity" that claims that Reagan disassembled FDR's coalition is historically incorrect. The coalition fell apart much earlier, when LBJ antagonized white voters, primarily in the South but also elsewhere, through his Civil Rights programs. I suggest that we remove Reagan from

1261:

First off, I don't think Ted Kennedy is "pandering" to anyone, Boston isn't exactly a hot bed of German nationalism and he certainly doesn't need the votes. The 900,000 included all three groups, resident aliens, natualized citizens, and US born citizens. Many of the US born citizens affected were

375:

I have now actually read the article, the first time I have done so. It is very poorly written, and full of silly conspiracy theories and irrelevant nonsense of various kinds (what on earth has all that garbage about Stalin got to do with Roosevelt's biography?). Are there really no serious American

346:

While he may have done his best, there is evidence that shows that some of his policies contributed to the lengthening of the depression. Additionally, the "second depression" lasted until 1938, oddly only a year before WW2. It's clear the the US benefited largely from the war and boosted the nation

1013:

Finally, the section ends with the statement, "It cannot be denied, however, that Roosevelt's action were at least in part motivated by racism." Technically, this can be denied, even though the author presents a quotation to support this statement. In order to tell the whole story, I feel that that

1445:

Okay...but, for example, this statement: "Contrary to popular belief, however, the Depression was not cured by Roosevelt's programs" is a POV. It *is* widely believed that his programs cured the Depression. It would be better to say that "The popular belief is that Roosevelt's programs cured the

1288:

I have no problems with that, although it could be noted that the Democrats retained control of the Congress though the Nixon and Reagan eras, losing only in 1994. The Roosevelt coalition rotted from the top down - first the White House, then the Senate, then the House, now the state legislatures.

1201:

Have a read all their FBI files ? haha, no, of course not. Theres no need to get sassy. Several bills are pending before congress that exonerates the German and Italian Americans held in the camps and offers them an offical apology. Also, this issue has been studied and studied and it has been

1084:

Well, My main concern is that the info in the acticle is incorrect. The internment of German and Italian Americans is VERY well documented if you bother to look it up, I recently watched a documentary about it on the History Channel. But noneless, I will provide you with links so you can get the

631:

This article is not "truncated" - it is nearly twice as long as the previous one, and will be longer once I add the matters mentioned above. It is also (if I say so myself) much better written and more coherent and covers much more content. The old article would be even shorter once the irrelevant

454:

There was a vague realisation that fatty food made you fat, and being fat was bad for your heart. But the etiology was a complete mystery. And in any event, FDR wasn't fat - he ate dreadful food, but he kept quite trim by swimming laps (which will burn calories fast when you can't use your legs;

384:

I'm sorry to say, but I thoroughly disagree. Your opinion is highly typical of those who've been brainwashed in US history classes. Please educate yourself. Your ignorance is showing. Stalin has much to do with FDR's decisions during WW2 concerning the European theater. This should be clear to any

293:

I dont' fundamentally disagree with your primary point that the way the information is currently phrased might be lending it too much credibility, but while it is unlikely, there is some evidence to support such allegations, and as such, they deserve some mention in the article. As I suggested, we

189:

The box shows his profession as attorney. I believe politician would be more appropriate. He was involved in politics and public service almost continually for 30 years. If he had a significant legal career I have not seen it mentioned... if someone has knowledge of it, it would be worth a brief

123:

so this author would probabyl say that even though FDR 'didnt know abotu pearl', he knew that something would come some time, and he was actively hoping for it, and doing everything he coudl to bring it about. ie he wouldnt talk to them in diplomatic terms. he was stiff on his embargos and had his

1477:

The article is careful to explain what is meant by the term "anti-Semitism" in relation to people of FDR's class and generation. It does not mean that they hated Jews or wished to carry out anti-Semitic acts. It means they held certain stereotyped views about Jews (among them the belief that they

1232:

active before the war). If they were (c) then the restrictions were unjustified unless there was evidence that a specific individual was an enemy sympathiser. This is not really a relevant discussion for this article, but I think you need to clarify this. (Incidentally, you really can't use these

1227:

Your edit does not make it clear whether these 900,000 people were (a) resident aliens, ie German or Italian nationals living in the US, (b) naturalised US citizens of German or Italian birth, or (c) native-born US citizens of German or Italian descent. If they were (a), then the restrictions you

1179:

internment of German-Americans, proportionate to that inflicted on Japanese-Americans. I repeat that there were millions of Americans of German descent, and if as you say 11,000 of them were interned, that is a tiny proportion. I presume this was done because the FBI or someone else decided these

1167:

Well, I'm not getting terribly worked up about it, I'm simply rather shocked at how much i had to write to just get the mention of the internment in the article. This article is neither yours nor mine and I would really love to hear the opinions of some other people on this matter. You said "In

1144:

Well, clearly it was not done in the huge numbers like the Japanese internment, the fact remains, European Americans WERE interned. They were taken out of their homes, put into camps and held as prisoners without due process, if thats not internment, then i don't know what it. This does include

1067:

historical events rather than just set out a series of facts and leave the reader guessing. Contrary to one of Wikipedants' fondest beliefs, readers don't mind articles with a POV, provided it is a reasonable one and supported by evidence. Roosevelt's actions against the Japanese-Americans, since

921:

FDR was always a Wilsonian internationalist and was never an isolationist, so he personally didn't move - he worked to shift US public opinion from isolationism to interventionism. As the article says, he believed it was in the interests of the US, as well as the right thing in general, to defeat

198:

The box shows his profession as attorney. I believe politician would be more appropriate. He was involved in politics and public service almost continually for 30 years. His legal employment seems to be "working for a Wall Street firm" from 1908 to 1913. I was a paper boy longer than that but

1349:

What happened in Canada is not the concern of this article. The west coast of the US consists of California, Oregon and Washington. If there were many Japanese in Oregon and Washington in 1941 I'd be surprised. Spare me your silly sarcasm - if you want to edit the article you are free to do so.

1004:

The next paragraph states, "Conditions in the camps...were tolerable..." Again, this is subjective. What I consider tolerable may not be the same as what someone else considers tolerable. This section needs to be reworded. One way this can be done is to include primary sources that describe the

450:

None of these things were known in 1944-5. FDR in 1944 was a 62 year old paraplegic who chain smoked, ate bad food, was in a high-stress job, and had sky-high blood pressure... and _nobody realized this was dangerous_. The correlation between hypertension and strokes, for example, wasn't even

279:

In terms of the Pearl Harbor stuff, I do feel like the article as it stands now gives too much credence to the rumors. Beyond the question of whether the evidence showed that Roosevelt "knew", the strongest evidence is the fact that the "Roosevelt knew" story makes no logical sense. Roosevelt

1068:

they had no basis in military necessity and were unsupported by evidence of espionage, need to be explained. One explanation is political expediency, another is widespread anti-Asian racism, including Roosevelt's. Furthermore, to say that De Witt's statement is irrational is entirely NPOV - it

1017:

Japanese internment was a dark hour in U.S. civil rights history, but its presentation on Knowledge (XXG) should be neutral. The reader needs to make up his/her own mind about it. It is quite obvious that the author of this section has already made up his/her own mind and is presenting it as a

1000:

Later, it is stated, "It was striking that no similar steps were taken, or even suggested, against German-Americans and Italian-Americans. It is also striking that Japanese-Americans continued to serve in the U.S. armed forces throughout the war, although they were not employed in the Pacific

581:

This is a much cleaner article. Please can we all work on this article from here and not revert to the previous one. If someone has a problem with the name of the article, cut and paste this one into Franklin Delano Roosevelt, but do not revert to the previous article at that place. Thank you.

721:

These are minor matters compared to the rewrite of the article itself. It should not have been necessary for me, an Australian, to write a competent article for a US-based encyclopaedia on the longest-serving US President. I was shocked to see what a disgraceful mess the old article was - a

255:

More background information (through either text or links) so that readers have the context to understand how Roosevelt strenghtened the Federal Government further and weakened states, strengthened the executive bransh and weakened Judicial, but also congress ( the latter isn't addressed as

1008:

The next paragraph states that Roosevelt did not sign the order ending the internment "until after the November elections." It goes on to say, "This shows that his motivation was in part simply political expediency." Again, this is the author's analysis of the situation. It is opinion, not

996:

For example, it is perfectly fair and neutral to point out, "No evidence was ever produced to support fears of Japanese-American espionage." However, the section then states, "A comment by De Witt shows the irrationality of the anti-Japanese agitation at this time..." The rationality and

455:

try it sometime). He looked slim, tan, and healthy right up to the autumn of 1944. Contemporary medicine had no way of even imagining that his arteries were shutting down from cholesterol, nor that smoking and 16-hour days were putting his whole system far into the red-line zone.

1156:

mass internment such as was done with all Californians of Japanese descent. It was not the same, it was not similar. It can be mentioned in the article, but the qualitative and quantitative difference in treatment of European and Japanese will also need to be mentioned.

553:

I firmly believe major overhauls of articles, especially ones this size, should be done in-place, a) to help avoid unintentional content deletion, b) so Diff shows what's changed, c) so the History stays together. Also, I think re-naming this article is a bad idea, as

268:

I tried to present critical views that maintained neutrality - allowing readers to loathe, admire, or have mixed feelings about the man -- but to faithfully tell the whole story. That's a lofty goal, and I'm sure I've fallen short (I'm not done yet) -- So please help!

1151:

I'm sorry you are getting so worked up about this, but my statement in the article is correct and nothing you have said proves it to be incorrect. There were millions of Americans of German descent, and by your own account only 11,000 of them were interned. That is

1318:

As a broad generalisation I think I am correct - these are very minor figures and minor exceptions to the general statement. I don't think in a biopgraphical article about FDR the exceptions are important enough to note. Perhaps you could insert the word "almost".

1027:

It's not only a POV issue, it is also factually incorrect. Germans and italians were held in camps during the war. In fact Germans were held all the way up to 1946, after the Japanese had been released. I had noted that in the acticle, but some one changed it.

481:

Thanks for those observations. I am not aware that FDR ate badly - as you say he certainly wasn't fat - so I don't think this was a factor in his early death. I think prolonged stress and chain-smoking were enough to explain it - this was also what killed Curtin.

1055:

and millions of other German-Americans. I don't recall Fiorello LaGuardia being locked up either. In fact only individuals actually suspected of Nazi or Fascist sympathies were interned (and not even all of them). In contrast the Japanese-Americans were interned

1434:

The first two statements have been inserted into the text I wrote, and I have now deleted them. All the other statements you quote are firmly grounded in the sources and have nothing to do with "libertarian bias" (I am a social democrat, not a libtertarian).

154:

On Monday, May 18, 1942, Roosevelt wrote a private letter to William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada, in which he discusses that the USA and Canada agree on an unwritten plan aiming to disperse French-Canadians in order to assimilate them more

264:

I believe that Roosevelt was a strong, capable leader, a maverick, and a competant military strategist. At the same time, I believe he was an authoritarian who re-interpeted laws illegally to suit his purposes and was quite adept at deceiving the public.

683:

The "Franklin Roosevelt" hits are misleading--if you actually look at the results, you will see most actually use either the middle name or middle initial, and are just being displayed by the search engine because it 'knows' that's who you are looking

376:

historians at Knowledge (XXG)? This article is a disgrace to any pretensions Knowledge (XXG) has to call itself a serious encyclopedia. I will make it my project tomorrow to write a new article. Roosevelt deserves better and so does Knowledge (XXG).

1303:

The sentence that states that isolationism disappeared completely after Pearl Harbor is also historically incorrect. I would like permission to add brief information (with wiki links) to the pro-German activities of right-wing Republicans such as

710:

I take your points on the renaming of the article. It seemed like a good idea at the time, which was 3am after I had spent 12 hours writing the article. I usually remember to fix redirects when I rename articles. I now think it should be moved to

1109:

Authors as diverse as Howard Zinn and Michelle Milkin have written about it. If this info is not enough for you, I urge you to learn about it on your own, because IT DID HAPPEN and its a shame that this atricle has such a clear factual error.

696:

The edits should have been done to the original article, not the redirect, to keep the content, history, and Talk page together (and having this discussion on this page is only further compounding the problem), so Diff works, etc. as I stated

451:

suggested until 1948. FDR's blood pressure was checked every month and recorded, but nobody thought that it was dangerously high; contemporary medicine thought that rapid _changes_ in blood pressure were dangerous, not hypertension per se.

301:

I recommend a one paragraph explanation of the existence of the various Pearl Harbor theories, with a reference to one explanatory article. A full explanation of all the various evidence and theories surely justifies an article of its own.

235:

Support and/or critique of the internment order (btw: I removed "concentration camp" because it's a slightly perjoritive term when compared to the Nazi version, but "camp" isn't strong enough -- maybe someone has an idea of what to do about

260:

I believe strongly that my changes should be peer reviewed to maintain the neutral point of view principle, and to assist with doing that well, I will disclose my biases (though I've tried to compensate for them in my edits as best I can):

502:

This new version, besides being at a name almost never used (Franklin D. Roosevelt and Franklin Delano Roosevelt are both much more commonly used), has lost much info and links compared to the old version. Examples I've found so far are:

1248:

I don't delete edits for no reason, I delete them if I think they are innaccurate and/or irrelevant. That's why I deleted your earlier edits. As a result, we now have better edits. The more we argue, the better edits we get.

130:

pearl harbor clearly was a morale inflamer for the american people, even 50 years later. the theory is that roosevelt knew something like that would be necessary to get the people fired up enough to go through with the war.

968:

I just happened by, and I'm not taking sides in any of the issues discussed above -- but there's evidently been some inept moving that stranded the history. If you can't use "Move this page" to move an article, put it on

1392:

The first two paragraphs in the "Private crises" section: most of this rates a "so what?", looks to have been inserted into the article to make FDR look bad, and should probably be pared down to just a few sentences.

884:

Good to see that we now have a qualilty article on FDR at an agreeable location on Knowledge (XXG). Let's look now to perfect this piece as much as possible and not grumble about the naming of the article anymore.

248:

More records of critical opinions of Roosevelt in the media of the day, as well as modern criticisms . In particular, more discussion of the stark contrast of opinions in the country when he became the first three

1270:

this section and substitute something like this: "a coalition of voters supporting the Democratic Party which would survive intact until the 1960s and in part until the 1970s, when it was finally shattered by

214:

I just made some extremely significant revisions to the page - though I changed little data, I did flesh out the critical perspective of whether Roosevelt may have had knowledge of Pearl Harbor ahead of time.

112:

in the book 'franklin delano roosevelt' by clark, the author states that roosevelt was systematically manipulating japan into attacking the US, so that he could have the moral support of the american people.

1466:

Thanks Adam, I'll go ahead and make those two changes and remove the NPOV tag for now. As for the anti-Semitism charge I'm going to have to do some research pro and con to see what specific sources say.

159:

Could someone provide a source for this? And also some more information, for example, how and where were they to be "dispersed"? Would they be forcably trucked off to the four corners of North America?

489:

I will write some more about FDR's health soon. I also want to add a section about FDR's attitudes to race, the Japanese-American issue, the Jewish refugee issue and the civil rights issue. Stay tuned.

1221:

Ok, I made my edit. I kept that line about there being no "mass" internment and everything i stated is fact and quite relevant. I think that it deserves at least the couple of sentences i gave it.

224:

While most of the information presented already existed in the page in a different format, I am very knowledgable about the events of world war two, and much of the modification was from memory.

813:

I'm Sorry If I missed this but there is no listing of Cabinet Members as with previous presidents; was this moved to another section? Thanks in Advance! - DonkeyBeliever(sorry I fogot to logon)

1378:

The Communist lead CIO unions had tremendous growth during FDR's time in office. The Communist Pary's influence wained later on because of post war anti-communism and internal party fighting.

605:

How can a significantly truncated article be "better"? Anyway, all editing should be done in one place (to the original article); any renaming should be done separately, using the "Move" tab.

568:

above about reasons to edit the article in place. If someone (Adam Carr) wants to point out specific things which are not accurate in the article, this page would be a good place to discuss.

735:

There was a question of renaming the article, I don't mean to break the flow with a new section, but, just from the outside, when I the think of him, the most natural names, in keeping with

410:

Briefly: mid-1940s medicine was not advanced enough to recognize how bad FDR's condition was, nor the risks that he was taking (and subjecting the nation to) by running for a fourth term.

1411:"This was mainly because the high tariff barriers erected in response to the Depression were not removed, and without a revival of international trade there could be no full recovery." 252:

More detailed information on how Roosevelt's policies were innovative -- they were! He is portrayed here as a strong, dedicated, effective leader, but his cleverness is underrepresented

556:] rules out "Franklin Roosevelt", and "Franklin Delano Roosevelt" and "Franklin D. Roosevelt" seem about equally common, so there's nothing gained by changing to the inital version. 178:

2. FDR was an avid stamp collector and greatly promoted the hobby, including to some extent, getting special favors from the bureau of engraving and printing. See the APS page here

718:

That said, I don't think the previous edit history and talk matter much since I have written a completely new article. If anyone really wants to see them they are not hard to find.

1060:. So far as I know there was no mass internment of any ethnic community other than the Japanese, and I will revert these edits until I am persuaded, by evidence, that there was. 993:

While I mostly agree with its implied point of view, the neutrality of this section is compromised because of the manner in which it written and the facts that are presented.

318:, presently a redirect, because I think he is more commonly known by the initial "D." than "Delano". This is standard practice, including on other presidential articles like 872:

is not too bad but could use some editing. The articles for the five surviving Roosevelt children are very sketchy and need a lot of work, if someone feels inclined.

1423:"Roosevelt's attitudes to both African-Americans and Jews remain a striking contrast with his social liberalism and generosity of spirit on most other issues." 1278:, which was a successful nationwide attempt to recruit into the Republican Party suburban whites, many of whom were frightened by the civil rights policies of 977:

edits from 25 Feb 2002 until April 2005. When those of you editing this article think you have some stability, please make sure that the stranded history at

687:

My only objection to "Franklin D. Roosevelt" is that, since it has more than 500 in-coming links, it is impossible to know if all broken redirects are fixed.

915:

When and why did he move from isolationism to intervention in the European war? Do you think he purposely led the United States into war? Why or Why not?

620: 127:

if japan had attacked a british or french colony, then he couldnt have gotten the congress support nor american people's morale to go to war with japan.

1414:"It took the massive growth in government spending during World War II to restore industrial production to its 1929 level and eliminate unemployment." 470: 1088:

First off, look up internment on Knowledge (XXG), it mentions the german and italian internment. (and no, i didn't not write any part of that article)

1103:

If you want to watch a video about it, heres a link to the History Channel Store. The video is called, "Italian-American Internment: A Secret War" -

1001:

theater." Again, this is the author's subjective analysis of the situation, which, while useful, does not conform to NPOV. This needs to be reworded.

615:

Any cutting and pasting would make the problem that much worse--articles should be moved to keep the content, history, and Talk pages together. See

616: 1420:"Roosevelt's anti-Semitism became an important factor in deciding government policy on the Jewish refugee issue before and during World War II." 221:

I added information on a critical perspective of the court packing action and the internment, and removed subjective language in several places.

1180:

people were security risks. Maybe they were right, maybe they weren't. But even if all these internments were thoroughly unjustified, that is

398:

Any attempt to reinstall revisionist nonsense, conspiracy theories or Polish nationalist rants into this article will be vigorously resisted.

440:

4) A diet rich in saturated fats and heavy starches correlates with heart disease and strokes, and is particularly bad for paraplegics; and

79: 71: 66: 1402:"...and to a leader who had grown up to privilege and had no coherent plan for solving America's problems other than a genial optimism." 1122:, on the basis of some suspicion (whether justified or not), that they were or might be German or other enemy spies or agents. This is 120:" movement , especially in the republican party (FDR was a democrat) , and FDR had a hard time getting them to go to war with germany. 326:. Has this already been dealt with, and was it decided to have it here, or is it just here because nobody ever contested it before? 645:

The Glass-Stegall act is not mentioned by name, but the creation of the Federal Deposit Insurance Administration is mentioned.

1189:

You said "In fact only individuals actually suspected of Nazi or Fascist sympathies were interned." that is clearly incorrect

671:

I still think that "Franklin Roosevelt" should be seen as the standard version of his name, but I would not oppose a move to

466: 1399:"...the Democrats (which, unlike today, had traditionally been a party of small government and laissez faire economics)..." 1097:

Heres a bill that Senator Feingold put infront of the senate about studying the internment of German and other Europeans -

700:

Editing on the original article would also have made it more apparent what had been simpled renamed vs. what was removed.

347:

out of economic stagnation, at the expense of other nations, of course. The argument before this one is a bit simplistic.

218:

I rephrased many, many lines, and trimmed the part about the four freedoms speech in 1941 from the World war two section.

1063:

On the wider point, no doubt some of these sentences could be reworded. But it is part of the job of an encyclopaedia to

764:

Yes. When his first name is given, his middle initial or name almost always is as well. I think the article should be at

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I believe that it is critically important to find references for the factual information that's presented in the article

1478:

complained all the time about anti-Semitism), which influenced certain of his decisions, notably on the refugee issue.

1364:"...while spinning out the negotiations..." that's certainly not US English--what does it mean in {whatever} English? 47: 38: 17: 1389:

As written this article is riddled with dubious statements, anti-Roosevelt slant, and libertarian POV. Examples:

363:

and that is what the article should be called. Also his role in Freemasons hardly belongs in the opening section.

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to the mass internment of Japanese-Americans, I will revert that edit, because that is a historical falsehood.

1126:, as well as quantitatively, quite different from what was done to the California Japanese, who were intered 175:

1. FDR added a 12th grade to public school to keep those people out of the work-force during the depression.

164:

If it were not for Knowledge (XXG), I would never have known that FDR ate babies. Thank you Knowledge (XXG)!

1456:

I don't object to the first two changes. Roosevelt's anti-Semitism is a documented fact, not an allegation.

1208:

If you edit the article in a way which implies that internment of German-Americans or Italian-Americans was

642:

Black and Rutledge are fairly minor figures but could be added to the mention of Supreme Court appointments.

359:? It is not Knowledge (XXG) policy to title biographical articles with the person's full name. His name was 1072:

irrational (contrary to reason), since the absence of something is presented as evidence of its existence.

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You can go on repeating yourself all night, but you still haven't produced any evidence that there was

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Congressional resolutions as evidence of anything except political pandering to the ethnic vote.)

636:

The "fear itself" speech is located at the First Inaugural. I don't see what the actual date adds.

791:. I will move it and start on the redirects, and I hope others will do some redirecting as well. 787:

Well we seem to be agreed that the article should be moved, and the majority opinion seems to be

769: 531: 360: 104:

Why the hell is his portrait and the first few paragraphs shown twice? I take this is a mistake.

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Also I'm not sure the word "suburban" is either strictly accurate or relevant. It was white

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3) Hypertension is very closely correlated with a whole bunch of other problems, including

281: 146:

Yet another indication of how the whole WWII section needs to be overhauled and expanded.

1417:

More dubious and probably unsubstantiated POV in the "Civil rights and refugees" section:

1305: 1104: 982: 758: 444: 323: 1396:

Numerous instances of dubious libertarian POV in the "First term: the New Deal" section:

973:, don't cut and paste it! The history of this article now tells readers that there were 970: 1479: 1457: 1436: 1351: 1320: 1294: 1279: 1250: 1234: 1213: 1192: 1158: 1135: 1073: 957: 923: 904: 873: 835: 802: 792: 773: 768:(or Frankln D., though I would prefer Franklin Delano). It should definitely not be at 744: 723: 676: 649: 491: 483: 399: 377: 364: 327: 690:

I note that you didn't bother to fix all the broken double-redirs your change created.

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I can't see why the Presidents table I added should be deleted. It's very helpful. --

1184:

not the same thing as the mass internment of all Japanese-Americans in California.

1014:

quotation should be kept there. However, it must be analyzed much more objectively.

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There is indeed no mention of dimes or state parks. I dislike trivia of this kind.

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Renaming and rewriting should be done separately to avoid complications like this.

1334:

writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it.").

1091:

This site gives info on the internment of Germans, including personal accounts -

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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This page desparately needs info on his role as a world war 2 allied leader.

1242:

Ok, my edits are still there for a moment, maybe we're getting somewhere.

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rant about Stalin and other silliness was removed. On the specific points:

841:

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Anyway, I think it looks OK. Just too big.

903:

I have done about 80 redirects. Someone else can do some if they like :)

911:

Help me assess Roosevelt's conduct of American Foreign Policy after 1935.

981:

is integrated here, along with any other stray bits of history or talk.

1191:- How do you know it is incorrect? Have you read all their FBI files? 1092: 427:

2) This is particularly true of older paraplegics, over age 60 or so

232:

Records of what might / might not have been known during world war two

435: 1018:

subjective analysis of history, not an objective reporting of it. --

180:

http://www.stamps.org/almanac/alm_halloffame_1942-45.htm#Roosevelt

675:. I would object to a reversion to "Franklin Delano Roosevelt." 511: 801:

Later: It appears that only an Administrator can do that move.

336:

One of the many was he got America out of the great depression.

334:

I think Franklin D Roosevelt was a good president in many ways.

1405:"Roosevelt indeed had no systematic economic beliefs at all." 997:

irrationality of anything is subjective, a violation of NPOV.

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solely because they were of Japanese orgin. This clearly was

199:

don't think I should be biographed as a "news distributor".

134:(course, why were we on hawaii in the first place? i dunno) 751:

I agree. It should be "Franklin D." or "Franklin Delano"..

116:

author also notes that in the late 30s there was a strong "

1105:

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=42768

1134:

done with the Germans, who numbered in the millions.

542:

And I don't know how many more. I'm going to revert.

124:

mind set ahead of time that a war was 'inevitable'.

639:

The "Wagner Act" is refered to, by its correct name.

447:is also correlated with heart disease and strokes. 1035:That would have been news to General Dwight D. 621:Knowledge (XXG):How to fix cut and paste moves 8: 617:Knowledge (XXG):How to rename (move) a page 394:revisionism, conspiracy, Polish nationalism 657:On the name of the article, Google gives: 456: 172:The FDR should include two extra details: 1099:http://members.cox.net/adjacobs/S1356.htm 989:NPOV dispute -- Japanese-American issues 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 956:, as the article has now been moved? 7: 1118:groups you refer to), were interned 1005:conditions in the internment camps. 948:Please fix it so that it directs to 934:Could whoever is in charge of this: 1093:http://www.foitimes.com/internment/ 834:A pity it's so outstandingly ugly. 667:Franklin Delano Roosevelt: 470,000 24: 314:I think the article should be at 1293:southerners who defected first. 661:Franklin D. Roosevelt: 1,010,000 29: 715:and the double redirects fixed. 1047:, Supreme Court Justice Felix 413:For example, we now know that 1: 244:needs more of the following: 240:I also feel that the article 899:) 08:10, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC) 831:) 10:12, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC) 1051:, Treasury Secretary Henry 1039:, former President Herbert 855:) 10:53, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC) 780:) 01:37, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC) 664:Franklin Roosevelt: 640,000 596:) 02:43, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC) 507:Date of 'fear itself' quote 355:Why is this article called 210:MAjor revisions to the page 1498: 572:02:32, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC) 564:I agree with statement by 475:15:20, 24 April 2005 (UTC) 420:are particularly prone to 18:Talk:Franklin D. Roosevelt 985:18:19, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC) 979:Franklin Delano Roosevelt 960:03:55, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC) 954:Franklin Delano Roosevelt 926:01:46, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC) 907:11:37, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) 876:06:17, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) 838:10:29, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 805:03:23, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) 766:Franklin Delano Roosevelt 761:23:53, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC) 747:05:48, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 679:03:39, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 627:03:13, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 546:00:04, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 527:F.D. Roosevelt State Park 498:New version lost too much 494:23:32, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) 486:15:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) 402:14:53, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) 380:12:26, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) 367:12:04, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC) 357:Franklin Delano Roosevelt 343:17:11, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC) 330:08:12, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC) 298:20:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC) 287:03:48, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC) 276:02:02, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC) 206:01:18, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC) 1483:05:31, 30 May 2005 (UTC) 1472:05:22, 30 May 2005 (UTC) 1461:01:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC) 1451:00:49, 30 May 2005 (UTC) 1440:00:30, 30 May 2005 (UTC) 1430:22:04, 29 May 2005 (UTC) 1312:throughout World War II 864:Eleanor and the children 795:01:41, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) 726:04:21, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 704:03:55, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 652:03:34, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 609:03:13, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 560:00:49, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) 306:13:13, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC) 1369:15:25, 3 May 2005 (UTC) 1355:09:24, 4 May 2005 (UTC) 1345:15:01, 3 May 2005 (UTC) 1324:11:14, 3 May 2005 (UTC) 1298:11:14, 3 May 2005 (UTC) 1254:12:41, 4 May 2005 (UTC) 1238:10:53, 4 May 2005 (UTC) 1217:09:32, 4 May 2005 (UTC) 1196:07:48, 3 May 2005 (UTC) 1162:06:12, 3 May 2005 (UTC) 1139:03:28, 3 May 2005 (UTC) 1077:23:41, 2 May 2005 (UTC) 1023:17:20, 2 May 2005 (UTC) 549:{moved from FDR Talk} 424:(high blood pressure) 950:Franklin D. Roosevelt 789:Franklin D. Roosevelt 741:Franklin D. Roosevelt 713:Franklin D. Roosevelt 673:Franklin D. Roosevelt 537:Wiley Blount Rutledge 385:"serious" historian. 316:Franklin D. Roosevelt 42:of past discussions. 1230:German-American Bund 739:are, in order: 1st, 731:Renaming the article 463:Paul Benjamin Austin 1329:Not just California 1310:Robert R. McCormick 1043:, Admiral Chester 770:Franklin Roosevelt 532:Glass-Steagall Act 361:Franklin Roosevelt 1276:Southern Strategy 964:Admin help needed 870:Eleanor Roosevelt 737:naming convention 566:User:Niteowlneils 477: 461:comment added by 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 1489: 945: 939: 930:Presidents table 351:Title of article 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 1497: 1496: 1492: 1491: 1490: 1488: 1487: 1486: 1387: 1376: 1374:Communist Party 1362: 1331: 1306:Cissy Patterson 991: 966: 943: 937: 932: 913: 882: 866: 811: 809:Cabinet members 733: 576: 550: 510:Any mention of 500: 408: 396: 373: 353: 324:John F. Kennedy 212: 196: 187: 170: 168:Needs two items 90: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1495: 1493: 1475: 1474: 1469:Kaibabsquirrel 1454: 1453: 1448:Kaibabsquirrel 1427:Kaibabsquirrel 1386: 1383: 1375: 1372: 1361: 1360:"spinning out" 1358: 1330: 1327: 1301: 1280:Lyndon Johnson 1267: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1256: 1200: 1173: 1166: 1143: 1115: 1081: 1033: 1012: 990: 987: 965: 962: 931: 928: 912: 909: 901: 881: 878: 865: 862: 861: 860: 859: 858: 857: 856: 810: 807: 799: 798: 797: 796: 782: 781: 762: 732: 729: 728: 727: 719: 716: 707: 706: 705: 698: 694: 691: 688: 685: 669: 668: 665: 662: 655: 654: 653: 646: 643: 640: 637: 629: 613: 612: 611: 610: 600: 599: 598: 597: 574: 562: 561: 548: 540: 539: 534: 529: 524: 519: 514: 508: 499: 496: 479: 407: 404: 395: 392: 382: 372: 369: 352: 349: 312: 311: 310: 309: 308: 307: 296:EggplantWizard 274:EggplantWizard 258: 257: 253: 250: 238: 237: 233: 211: 208: 195: 192: 186: 183: 169: 166: 162: 151: 143: 136: 102: 100: 89: 86: 83: 82: 77: 74: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1494: 1485: 1484: 1481: 1473: 1470: 1465: 1464: 1463: 1462: 1459: 1452: 1449: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1438: 1432: 1431: 1428: 1424: 1421: 1418: 1415: 1412: 1409: 1406: 1403: 1400: 1397: 1394: 1390: 1384: 1382: 1381: 1373: 1371: 1370: 1367: 1359: 1357: 1356: 1353: 1347: 1346: 1343: 1340: 1338: 1336: 1328: 1326: 1325: 1322: 1316: 1315:--Stanley W. 1313: 1311: 1307: 1300: 1299: 1296: 1292: 1286: 1285:--Stanley W. 1283: 1281: 1277: 1273: 1272:Richard Nixon 1266: 1265: 1255: 1252: 1247: 1246: 1245: 1244: 1243: 1240: 1239: 1236: 1231: 1225: 1224: 1219: 1218: 1215: 1211: 1206: 1205: 1198: 1197: 1194: 1190: 1185: 1183: 1178: 1172: 1171: 1164: 1163: 1160: 1155: 1149: 1148: 1141: 1140: 1137: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1124:qualitatively 1121: 1114: 1113: 1107: 1106: 1101: 1100: 1095: 1094: 1089: 1086: 1082: 1079: 1078: 1075: 1071: 1066: 1061: 1059: 1054: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1032: 1031: 1025: 1024: 1021: 1015: 1010: 1006: 1002: 998: 994: 988: 986: 984: 980: 976: 972: 963: 961: 959: 955: 951: 946: 942: 935: 929: 927: 925: 919: 916: 908: 906: 900: 898: 895: 892: 888: 879: 877: 875: 871: 863: 854: 851: 848: 844: 840: 839: 837: 833: 832: 830: 827: 824: 820: 816: 815: 814: 808: 806: 804: 794: 790: 786: 785: 784: 783: 779: 775: 771: 767: 763: 760: 757: 753: 750: 749: 748: 746: 742: 738: 730: 725: 720: 717: 714: 709: 708: 703: 699: 695: 692: 689: 686: 682: 681: 680: 678: 674: 666: 663: 660: 659: 658: 651: 647: 644: 641: 638: 635: 634: 633: 628: 626: 622: 618: 608: 604: 603: 602: 601: 595: 592: 589: 585: 580: 579: 578: 577: 573: 571: 567: 559: 555: 552: 551: 547: 545: 538: 535: 533: 530: 528: 525: 523: 520: 518: 515: 513: 509: 506: 505: 504: 497: 495: 493: 487: 485: 478: 476: 472: 468: 464: 460: 452: 448: 446: 441: 438: 437: 433: 432:heart disease 428: 425: 423: 419: 414: 411: 405: 403: 401: 393: 391: 390: 389:User:Vegalabs 386: 381: 379: 370: 368: 366: 362: 358: 350: 348: 344: 342: 338: 335: 331: 329: 325: 321: 320:James K. Polk 317: 305: 300: 299: 297: 292: 291: 290: 289: 288: 286: 283: 277: 275: 270: 266: 262: 254: 251: 247: 246: 245: 243: 234: 231: 230: 229: 227: 222: 219: 216: 209: 207: 205: 200: 193: 191: 184: 182: 181: 176: 173: 167: 165: 161: 157: 156: 150: 149: 142: 141: 135: 132: 128: 125: 121: 119: 114: 110: 109: 105: 101: 98: 97: 93: 87: 81: 78: 75: 73: 70: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 1476: 1455: 1433: 1425: 1422: 1419: 1416: 1413: 1410: 1407: 1404: 1401: 1398: 1395: 1391: 1388: 1380:Morrison1917 1377: 1366:Niteowlneils 1363: 1348: 1342:Niteowlneils 1332: 1317: 1314: 1308:and Colonel 1302: 1290: 1287: 1284: 1268: 1264:Morrison1917 1260: 1241: 1226: 1223:Morrison1917 1220: 1209: 1207: 1204:Morrison1917 1199: 1188: 1186: 1181: 1176: 1174: 1170:Morrison1917 1165: 1153: 1150: 1147:Morrison1917 1142: 1131: 1127: 1123: 1119: 1116: 1112:Morrison1917 1108: 1102: 1096: 1090: 1087: 1083: 1080: 1069: 1064: 1062: 1057: 1052: 1048: 1044: 1040: 1036: 1034: 1030:Morrison1917 1026: 1016: 1011: 1007: 1003: 999: 995: 992: 974: 967: 947: 941:Uspresidents 936: 933: 920: 917: 914: 902: 893: 883: 867: 849: 825: 812: 800: 734: 702:Niteowlneils 670: 656: 630: 625:Niteowlneils 614: 607:Niteowlneils 590: 563: 558:Niteowlneils 544:Niteowlneils 541: 501: 488: 480: 457:— Preceding 453: 449: 442: 439: 429: 426: 422:hypertension 415: 412: 409: 397: 387: 383: 374: 354: 345: 341:67.129.78.33 337: 333: 332: 313: 278: 271: 267: 263: 259: 241: 239: 228:Especially: 225: 223: 220: 217: 213: 201: 197: 188: 177: 174: 171: 163: 158: 153: 152: 144: 137: 133: 129: 126: 122: 118:isolationist 115: 111: 106: 103: 99: 94: 91: 60: 43: 37: 1187:You write: 1120:selectively 1049:Frankfurter 817:Now added. 575:{End move} 418:Paraplegics 140:65.73.0.137 36:This is an 1210:equivalent 1053:Morgenthau 1037:Eisenhauer 983:JamesMLane 880:Thanks PMA 756:User:Mulad 522:Wagner Act 517:Hugo Black 194:profession 185:profession 774:Lowellian 745:Calicocat 328:Everyking 242:generally 236:that....) 202:Comments? 190:mention. 108:Holden 27 96:user:J.J. 80:Archive 5 72:Archive 3 67:Archive 2 61:Archive 1 1128:en masse 1058:en masse 1020:Hnsampat 952:and not 897:contribs 853:contribs 829:contribs 594:contribs 471:contribs 459:unsigned 272:Thanks! 155:quickly. 88:Old text 1065:explain 445:Smoking 436:strokes 371:Garbage 304:Pmeisel 249:termer. 204:Pmeisel 39:archive 1045:Nimitz 887:Harro5 843:Harro5 819:Harro5 759:(talk) 697:above. 584:Harro5 570:Morris 406:Health 1291:rural 1182:still 1041:Hüber 971:WP:RM 256:much) 148:Jumbo 16:< 1480:Adam 1458:Adam 1437:Adam 1385:NPOV 1352:Adam 1321:Adam 1295:Adam 1251:Adam 1235:Adam 1214:Adam 1193:Adam 1177:mass 1159:Adam 1136:Adam 1074:Adam 958:Adam 924:Adam 905:Adam 891:talk 874:Adam 868:The 847:talk 836:Adam 823:talk 803:Adam 793:Adam 778:talk 724:Adam 684:for. 677:Adam 650:Adam 588:talk 512:dime 492:Adam 484:Adam 467:talk 443:5) 434:and 416:1) 400:Adam 378:Adam 365:Adam 322:and 282:john 1282:." 1274:'s 1154:not 1132:not 772:. — 1070:is 1028:-- 975:no 944:}} 938:{{ 623:. 619:, 473:) 469:• 339:-- 302:-- 76:→ 894:· 889:( 850:· 845:( 826:· 821:( 776:( 754:— 591:· 586:( 465:( 285:k 50:.

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