287:. I was waiting for some dicussion , but no one came forward. And when you came, you started redoing the changes without bothering to explain it.I waited till you made three edits before reverting them. Before that I put messages on your user page three times in order to get your attention . But since it is an IP you would not have known. Anyway now that you have finally come to the table, lets be civil. Please register yourself and sign in so that we can discuss it as per wikipedia policies. Kindly refrain from doing any more edits till we sort out this issue. --
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Konkanis. Some
Konkanis are bilingual with Marathi. Bilingual Konkanis do not become Marathis, just as a Marathi who speaks Hindi does not become a Hindi. And again in Karnataka, which has the highest percentage of Konkani speakers, Konkanis are bilingual with Tulu on a daily basis, and even trilingual since they have studied Kannada in school. Lastly, the percentage of Konkani-Marathi bilinguals is very small. I do not have exact figures but I will pessimistically guess at 10-15% .
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call someone as a
Konkani(or more precisely Kokani) they reffer to a person living in the Konkan Vibhag regardless of whether he/she is a Konkani speaker or Marathi. When a Konkani speaker reffers to another person as a Konkani (not Kokani) he/she specifically means a Konkani speaker who could be from Mahharashtra, Goa, Karnataka or Kerala. The article as it existed before I made changes did not clearly differentiate between the two.
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having lived in Mumbai from birth, I have studied
Marathi and respect its beauty. But I get fed up by the condescending attitude of a few people who try to demean Konkani by referring to it as a dialect of Marathi. And you seem to display the same attitude when you say that I have been fed with anti-Marathi rhetoric by some Konkani zealots. Let me assure you that I have made my decisions after a lot of reading and research.
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India were called or called themselves Aryans a few thousand years ago. This is again limited to a certain geographic area. These people were followers of vedic religion. The people from neighboring areas that did not follow the vedic religion had different names.From and anthropological perspective you can classify a group as Indo european etc.
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the groups you have mentioned speak
Konkani as a primary language or specifically as a Mother tongue they deserve to be here. If they speak Konkani as a second language that does not mean that they belong to this article. Just as much as a Marathi person who speaks English does not become an Englishman and is not considered as belonging to the
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tempts visitors to add their own if it isn't present. Hardly a contribution to the improvement of the article. Especially in the case of
Lusitanian names which can be found across the world (and number in 100s) as compared to Konkani Hindu names which are local. Maybe you can add them on the individual articles. --
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Konkan coast, who speak
Konkani. Also many are there in Goa who speak Konkani but are also well-versed in Marathi. I know, you have been fed with anti-Marathi rhetoric by some Konkani zealots, but do not hate Marathi so much, brother. I respect your culture and your language. Maharashtrians are not anti-Konkani.
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Second please do not equate Mumbai with
Cherlai. Kerala has the lowest number of Konkanis (less than 1,00,000), which is much lesser than the then number of Konkanis in Mumbai. And Mumbai is different from the rest of Maharashtra in a few aspects including demographics. For one Konkanis in Maharashra
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True that the
Konkani Muslims are of Arab extrusion, but they are not 100% Arab, more likely a mixute of Arab and Indian. Limited to my knowledge, the government does not categorise Arabs as a seperate race in India. People of Arab descent are counted into the majority race that belong to the are eg.
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Please mind your language! Knowledge does not approve personal attacks and you could be banned. Second, you have mande changes without discussing it and without providing any reason. Refer to the sub topic "Ambiguity in title" above. Third, please register as a user and go through
Wikipedias policies
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with regard to being an Anglo Indian , I doubt it is applicable to
Leander. The Indian Govt clearly stats that to be described as an Anglo Indian you have to have an European ancestor in your paternal lineage. Leander's father is not Anglo. His mother may be (going by her family name), so technically
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Hmm, I do not think that the government of India classifies people according to their race. There is no such thing as Aryan classification. Malyali classification is linguistic classification not a racial one. Also there is no such thing as Indo aryan race. People that lived in the northern parts of
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Please read my comment above. I have clearly mentioned that the Konkani speaking people and the people of the Konkan Vibhag are two distinct entities with a few groups in common. That is why I wish to create two seperate pages. I haven't said that they should not be mentioned. When Maharashtrians
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It is not uncommon for people who migrate from one region to another to get subsumed into the local culture. Konkani Muslims claim ancestry from Arabs who settled along the coastline. Now they are Konkanis, not Arabs. Indeed Konkani peoples consist of many such clans which adopted Konkani language.
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article as any other language has.There is no need to create a separate article called "Konkani speaking people". There is no "Marathi speaking people" article or "Bengali speaking people article". This is not the page to put Marathi speaking people just because they are in the Konkan division. If
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The term Konkani refers to two different identities: 1 The Konkani speaking people 2 The people who live in the Konkan administrative division of Maharashtra. The second identity includes both Konkani and Marathi speaking populace But there is an important difference. Konkanis and Marathis do not
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I have removed the surnames from this article and request discretion before putting them back. This article should provide a brief introduction to each community and link the user to corresponding article if it exists. It isn't really necessary to mention surnames here. The presence of surnames
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I agree that the history of Konkanis and Marathis has intertwined at many points , but that does not mean it is the same. Again going by your logic, I can make an erroneous inference that since Marathis and Kanadigas or Marathis and Gujaratis have had intertwining history they are the same. Most
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There is no need for seperate pages on Marathi Kokanis and Konkani Kokanis. The point is, their history is intertwined and although the language may be different, they are very much related. Also the Marathi word "Kokani" is anglicised to "Konkani". Again, there are a few people in Maharashtra's
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Your statement that "you have been fed with anti-Marathi rhetoric by some Konkani zealots," is very condescending and goes against the "Assume Good Faith" policy of Knowledge. What you imply is that as a person I am not mature and rational enough to make my own decisions. I do not hate Marathi,
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Your remarks doesn't make sense. I have given the reasons and your analogy with Marathi and Bengali doesnt make any sense as there is no other group calling themselves Marathi people or bengali ppl, but for Konkani, there is. So, make sure the people are included. And I am not telling to merge
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1. I admit that I was unaware that Leander was born in Goa. But not everyone born in Goa is a Konkani. What I had HEARD was that Leander was a Bengali and that there are Lusitanised Bengali Catholics. I ASSUMED that he was one among them. ANother thing that contributed to my opinion was Mahima
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You are wrong in saying that "Konkani" is the Anglicized version of "Kokani". That is how Konkani speakers spell it. As I mentioned above , the semantics of both terms are different, and hence it would be best to seperate them. Not all Goans speak Marathi, there are Marathis in Goa and there
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I have asked you to refrain from making any edits until this matter is resolved. But you have gone ahead and made changes. It will not be very difficult for me to revert them but I will not do so since I wish to avoid an edit war. I suggest that this matter be put for arbitration.
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The Bengali people are the ethnic community from Bengal (divided between India and Bangladesh) on the Indian subcontinent with a history dating back four millennia. They speak Bengali (বাংলা Bangla), a language of the eastern Indo-Aryan branch of the Indo-European languages.
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2. I think it better to be inclusive rather than exclusive. It should not matter if some one is born outside Konkani areas so long as one's parentage is Konkani (those who spoke konkani and resided in such areas at some stage. Call them ethnic Konkanis or cultural Konkanis.
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mainly reside in the regions adjoining Goa for hundreds of years. Mumbai does not form part of the Konkani homeland due to its distance. Yet today it has a large number of Konkani migrants from other parts hence it is releavnt to mention it seperately in this article. --
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Much of what you say contradicts conventional wisdom. The classification "Indo European" is used for languages, not for people. Yes, Malayali is a linguistgic classification, no doubt. I was just trying to demonstrate an example , not equate Malayali to a race.
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2. I agree, a Konkani is a Konkani regardless of where they are born. But here is a small issue: do they regard themselves as Konkanis and love their culture?. I have come across many Konkanis who have forsaken their culture. At one time I was among them too .
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The history section starts with the assertion that konkanis are indo aryans who settled in...." etc. If you make that assertion, how do you include konkani muslims who are of arab stock? They are not indo aryans. ( Anyway, what contrues indo aryans?)
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1. Leander Paes is listed at Anglo-Indian sites as such. However, the word Anglo-Indian itself is ambiguous. One can be both Anglo-Indian and Konkani, and so I do not see problems counting him in so long as his family migrated from Konkani areas.
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Please understand that Knowledge articles, including the External Links column are not a place to advertise. The External links column is meant to link to the relevant external web pages that enhance the knowledge of the article. Your link to
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There are too many Konkani Muslims in the list, most of whom do not really deserve the title eminent For instance Roghay maybe a Konkani Muslim surname so that does not mean that Mrs Roghay (Ms Roghay who?) desrves to be called "eminent".
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The Marathi people or Maharashtrians (Marathi: मराठी माणसं or महाराष्ट्रीय)are an Indo-Aryan ethnic group that inhabit the Maharashtra region and state of western India. Their language Marathi is part of the southern group of Indo-Aryan
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The census department of India puts the figure of bilinguals and trilinguals among Konkanis at 74% and 44% . The majority are bilingual with Kannada and Tulu , not Marathi,so does that mean that the Konkani People should be merged into
615:. the The Konkan itself has many diverse ethnic groups such as Marathas, Chitpavans, Samedis, East Indians, Konkani Muslims , Jews, Mahars, Gamits etc.; most of whom dont speak the Konkani Language, nor call themselves as Konkanis.--
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as explained on ly talk page). Well firslty, every person believes his community is important and is proud of it. Not a bad thing but to expect that Knowledge articles should honour their "conttributions" is bad policy. Please see
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are Konkani people, still now people of Maharashtrian Konkan identify themselves as Konkani. These are not seperate ethnicities at all. If you want an article for Konkani speakers then start an article named
900:. If you are going to add your community just becuase it fullfils some self-defined criteria of importance , tomorrow someone else will also include his community based on other self-fulfilling criteria.
954:; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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The criteria for eminent should be that they are well known outside their community ,not just within the community. If they are not well known among all Konkanis , let alone Indians , why bother?
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Lastly I have seen quite a few of his interviews. He hasnt talked much about his ancestry. Even Goan websites do not list him as Goan. If someone can clarify, I am willing to change my opinion.
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OK I have checked and Rajapur Saraswat brahmins are a Konkani community. They weren't included here prior to my edits and that is not my fault. I have added a line about them. However the
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Konkanis live outside Konkan vibhag and have little in common with Marathis. Never have Konkani speaking people regarded their language as a dialect of Marathi , or themselves as Marathis.
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and make edits when you feel they are justified within the spirit of Knowledge. If you feel that something needs a citiation, add a {{fact}} tag at the end of the line or paragraph. --
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Lastly , with all due respects to the great Johnny Walker, the Knowledge article does not mention that he was a Konkani. rather his birthplace is Indore, so why is he in the list?
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While speaking in Marathi the Konkan region is referred to as Kokan (please note the difference) I suggest that two different pages be created instead of one, to avoid ambiguity
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They may not make any sense to you because you don't want to make sense of it. What do you mean by "my version"? there is no my version or your version in Knowledge. Please see
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your messages and add new messages at the bottom of the page by clicking on new section. Yes, that bit was not neutra and can be removed or rewritten (by you too!). Be
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Leander Paes is not Konkani, he is a Bengali. Someone must have mistakenly thought that he was a Goan. Dom Moraes, to my knowledge is an Anglo Indian not a Konkani.
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We would like to get more articles/templates in place. We also need volunteers to do the thankless and boring job of transliterating it to different scripts .
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3. I was surprised but pleased to see that many prominent folk listed were Konkanis (Antulay, Zakharia,...). I hope their inclusion in the list is legitimate.
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This line is somewhat frustrating: "The Konkani community, however, rebounds from every setback" - it does not seem to represent a neutral point of view.
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This line: "The Konkani people primarily speak Konkani although a very high percentage are bilingual. " is poorly phrased and needs a citation anyway.
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Reverted 3 changes done by anonymous user on IP 59.182.93.249 . Request you to refer to the above discussion as to why I have done so --
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Sangam Tamil epics mentions about konkani people as a distinct ethnic group. Can those references be added under history section?
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If your criteria is that the people who come from the Konkan division belong to the Konkani people article, you are mistaken. The
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The best option for you would be to contact websites dedicated to specific communities and post messages to specific chatgroups.
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articles don't mention any Konkani speaking Marathas. Nor could I find anything in a websearch. Can you provide any sources? --
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article makes no mention of other linguistic groups that reside in Maharashtra such as Konkanis, Hindi speakers in Vidarbha or
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Once you are satisfied that every language article has a corresponding people article , then please come back and discuss.The
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As of now only two members are making active contributions. The more the merrier. Your contribution is vital to its success.
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Please add a note on maratha navy under Shivaji and Kanhoji angre , shivaji's capital raigarh was in konkan only --dbkasar
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https://web.archive.org/web/20111006190744/http://www.goacom.com/community/associations/goaont/convention/moraes.htm
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I will not revert this link for the time being , pending the resolution of another dispute. But someone else may. --
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believe that they are the descendants of Syrians , but for all practical purposes that are counted as Malayalis. --
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Wikipeida. At least tri-script with Roman ,Devanangiri and Kannada scripts since these are the most popular ones.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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No personal attacks please. And what PA did I do ? Anyway, the Konkani people of Maharashtra must be mentioned.
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in a tit-for-tat move. His ratioanl is that Cochin GSBs have made significant contributions to the Kashi Muth([
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant
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445:. I don't know if you have any personal prejudices against Maharashtra-residing Konkanis. Put them aside.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110807142019/http://www.navhindtimes.in/panorama/prehistoric-goan-shamanism
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276:"Mr. D'Sooza" . Is this what you call good manners? Would you like it if someone made fun of your name?
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If they're reliable and independent sources, then sure. If it isn't, it's best to not add any of it.
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Then there are Konkanis who have forgotten their origins and no longer regard themselves as Konanis.
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Konkani people into Marathi people. This article is of Konkani people, not Konkani speaking people.
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I would like to see some consent on this sereation before we start rather than have an editing war
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For the time being I will place MY opinion about his ancestry in limbo :-). Ditto for Dom Moraes.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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3. Antulay, I am sure. His name is a typical Konkani Muslim surname. Zakaria, I am not sure.
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In North India, they are counted among Aryans, In South they are included among Dravidians.
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who speak Konkani. Also, there is no rational basis to say that only the people speaking
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Kindly contribute towards the Konkani wikipedia. We intend to make it a multiscript
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Choudhary's interview in a newspaper a couple of years back that he was a Bengali.
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For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all
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Read the first paragraph of both articles or for that matter every people article:
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User:MyCochin has been insistent on adding detailed information about Kerala GSBs
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What you know about dang district konkani people of Gujarat state. I want data
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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1353:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070712124015/http://www.kokaniz.com/history.html
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image
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Konkani Knowledge has been started and been in test stage since August 2006
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http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Deepak_D%27Souza#KONKANI_PEOPLE_IN_KOCHI
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http://www.goacom.com/community/associations/goaont/convention/moraes.htm
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http://www.navhindtimes.in/panorama/prehistoric-goan-shamanism
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With this purpose in mind I decided to create another article
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Dont talk about prejudices. You are prejudiced yourself.--
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Splitting the article serves no purpose as there are many
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Good to know you have finally decided to dicuss the issue.
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Thank you for your comments, Gangolly Here is my feedback.
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http://incubator.wikimedia.org/Category:Konkani_Wikipedia
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484:. What is the need to add Marathi speaking groups here?
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This list is rather amusing, it has may non Konkanis.
1357:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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965:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no
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464:articles. There is already an article about
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919:File:AmritaRao.jpg Nominated for Deletion
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856:Thank you for your feedback. Please
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1307:. Please take a moment to review
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230:The Kokani people (geographical)
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128:Leander is not an Anglo Indian.
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1300:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1005:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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198:User: 59.182.93.249
18:Talk:Konkani people
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967:fair use rationale
935:File:AmritaRao.jpg
379:User:209.172.74.45
216:Ambiguity in Title
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434:Rajapur Saraswats
158:Konkani Knowledge
115:Jagdish Gangolly
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881:Cochin GSBs
799:—Preceding
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392:guidlines.
307:59.182.2.19
36:This is an
1406:Report bug
1286:Report bug
1121:Report bug
558:languages.
424:who speak
416:who speak
1389:this tool
1382:this tool
1269:this tool
1262:this tool
1104:this tool
1097:this tool
795:Ddwiticus
746:Ddwiticus
420:and many
61:Archive 1
1395:Cheers.—
1275:Cheers.—
1139:unsigned
1110:Cheers.—
960:non-free
833:contribs
801:unsigned
779:contribs
767:Knanayas
754:contribs
742:unsigned
725:Ling.Nut
694:contribs
679:Surnames
663:contribs
625:contribs
497:contribs
414:Marathas
110:Gangolly
1309:my edit
1189:my edit
1037:checked
1014:my edit
862:WP:BOLD
858:WP:SIGN
613:Dakhani
478:Bengali
470:Marathi
438:Konkani
426:Marathi
418:Konkani
39:archive
1045:failed
529:WP:OWN
458:Tuluva
1439:Rejoy
651:Kunbi
390:WP:EL
16:<
1446:talk
1426:talk
1167:talk
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1041:true
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649:and
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480:and
472:and
1363:RfC
1333:to
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1078:RfC
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