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CoA is much older. So it is appropriate and legitimate for both CoA to be placed there. Of course, both CoA may represent a different historical period and style. It is also possible that neither of them is historically true and both are only attributed, because none of them cannot be substantiated by another source. Do you agree?
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Wrong! The
Kingdom of Georgia minted coins with Arabic and later Persian inscriptions. You deciding that the infobox consists of Georgian residents involvement is your opinion. Whether you like it or not, it happened. You don't own this article and your continued labeling my edits to this article are
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You are repeating same information about coins and as sources themselves say, coins were indicative of trade partners and their importance. It says nothing about how common these languages were among
Georgia residents. I don't need to know Arabic to use bilingual Georgian-Arabic coin, just as I don't
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is the perfect descriptor and should be included initially in the lede to establish this fact and to dissuade any misleading, politicised efforts to paint the picture as being entirely
European or entirely Middle Eastern (and this includes weasel words, structure and context). The lede should make it
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How is it harassment to point out obvious issues? I am not allowed to change what you add but I am also not allowed to mark my objection either? How will others know that this is even being discussion if they are no tags? It is not fair to insert something, tell me it cannot be changed, and also not
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This infobox is about country in question, so of course common languages is about residents of that country, why would it be about residents of some other country, including
Georgia's trade partners? Just as you stretch meaning of what coin inscriptions mean, now you're redefining what purpose these
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If you have reason to suspect that
Georgian was not spoken in Georgia, feel free to delete that. All I can say is that I read what your source says and it only talks about languages of Georgia's foreign trade partners, so it is not relevant to this specific section of infobox, which is about commons
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Look more closely, it is not 100% the same as the version in the source. The sword and the crown is different, and the lion and shield is less detailed in the source, this means that while they are similar, it is not the same. And again, there is no reason for change, the long-standing version has a
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Yeah, i know this was another editor, but quite strangely, you made (partly) the same changes. Anyway, as i said above, just wait and see, if this edit is endorsed by other editors then it's perfectly fine for me. Also, you should take a look at my comment, for now, i did not present any "appology".
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I think that "at the peak of its might" is severely unencyclopedic, and weirdly nationalistic and politically biased. I do not see any argument against the far more accurate and appropriate "at the peak of its territorial expansion" - please do not revert, rather demonstrate what that argument might
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I did not remove
Georgian because I have no specific reason to question that Georgian was spoken in Georgia... If you have reason to doubt that Georgian was spoken, please do. I am focus on your reference because you are stretching the meaning of coins to suggest these languages were common in this
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I think the best solution (compromise, how to stop local editing war) is to use both Coat of Arms in the infobox. It is possible to use a special way to put both CoA there and prevent ongoing disputes. Of course, somebody thinks that Prince
Vakhushti is more trustworthy, however Conrad GrĂŒnenberg's
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Simply linking to an article about a historical person is not attributing a source. Also neither of these CoA are wrong, but there is no need for a change unless it is a modern version of the CoA already in place. If you really want that other CoA in the article so bad then put it somewhere else in
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Also, Armenian would certainly be more common in the
Georgia kingdom than Arabic even if there is no bilingual Georgian-Armenian coins. Same about Greek, Abkhazian, Ossetian and other languages of people who lived there. Relevance of languages on coins is already covered in another area of article
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It's not that strange that we've both reached the same conclusion; I'm sure we'd both agree that an apple was different to an orange as well, or that red and blue are different colours. Also, just to clarify, you've made two eccentrically spelled quotations above ("gainning" and "appology") which
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Infobox is just not the place for this information because numismatics is very specific thing and does not denote common languages. What coins they minted is already explain in detail thanks to your addition to the article, which is best place for this information. Everything else about these
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Recent additions was made under "common languages" infobox that Arabic and
Persian were "common" languages spoken in the kingdom along with Georgian. This was based on bilingual coins with Arabic and Persian inscription. Based on provided authors themselves, these languages were important
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Later
Bagrationi monarchs, notably David IV AgmaĆĄenebeli (r.1089â1125), Dimitri I (1125â54), and Giorgi III (r. 1156â84), minted coins with the title malik al-mulĆ«k and Tâamar (r. 1187â1213) followed suit with malikat al-malikÄt. Brosset correctly dismisses the idea that
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the Georgian kingdom. Inscription on coin says more about languages of trade partners, than domestic language situation of Georgia. Provided books also don't make claims that coin languages were indicative of domestic language demographics. It is just not what they say.
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Your sources just don't say this was common languages in Georgia, only that their presence on coins indicated Georgia's important trade partners. You are stretching meaning of what they say, which is why it was removed. It has its own paragraph where trade and coins are
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text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Major contributions by contributors who have been verified to have violated copyright in multiple articles may be presumptively deleted in accordance with
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clear that the Kingdom encompassed both Eastern Europe (and Eastern European culture) and the Middle East (and Middle Eastern culture), and should not imply that it is merely one or the other, or that it is predominantly indicative of one or the other.
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Sorry but the source doesn't back it. The CoA on pages 5-6 are similar but not identical. Keep in mind that various states have used different version of the same CoA, this is not uncommon. Also, there is no reason to change the CoA already in place!
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implied vassalage to the Caliphate or the amÄ«rates of the North. If that were the case, Georgian coins would have followed AbbÄsid patterns as we see emanating from TiflÄ«s/Tpâilisi and SharwÄn in the eleventh century. Brosset instead suggests that
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source attributed to it on its commons-page. If you want to change from one sourced version to another then ask for concensus for such a change here on the talk-page, dont just carry out the change thinking nobody is going to object to it.
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There are some tiresome edit wars going on here that are transparently politically motivated. The Kingdom of Georgia (much like the country of Georgia today) was both European AND Asian, it was not either European OR Asian. The term
769:" from the geographical description in the introduction. That it hints at far-flung areas like the Balkans, Ukraine, and European Russia, while it is implied by "North Caucasus", which is appropriately specific.
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Text already says that Georgia stretched from Russia to Iran, so it is clear that it was on both continents. But if you want to be specific and say that it was both in Eastern Europe and middle east, that is also
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I'm not making any assumptions, I have added exactly what the source states, nothing more. I even included numismatics and chancery, which explains in which capacity those languages are used. Also, while you are
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Actually, the burden of "gainning consensus" is on you, since you want to change a stable version of the article, but let's wait for other contributors opinion (however, i've seen that you added back your edit
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was a person famous for his armorial as this person was dedicated and working on them. Not the case with Prince Vakhushti. Conrad takes precedent over Vakhushti as his armorial is more credible in all senses.
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I see no reason to not include all languages, especially those on their coins, in the infobox. Personal opinions mean nothing here. Facts clearly state this Kingdom used two other languages on their coinage.
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IP, on my request, this article is now protected by an administrator. However, if you're able to provide sources for your edit, please ping me here and i'll edit the article for you if you want. Best regards.
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I was the one who originally changed "peak of its might" to "peak of its territorial expansion" for reasons that Bdog talks about. The second one is more neutral, "might" implies other things besides size.--
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It obviously was not single language kingdom as many other peoples live there and spoke their own languages, including Armenian and Ossetian. But issue is that we are making assumptions here based only on
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Interested contributors are invited to help clarify the copyright status of this material or rewrite the article in original language at the temporary page linked from the article's face. Please see our
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I see no reason NOT to include these languages in the infobox. Your interpretation as to what common languages does or doesn't mean is meaningless. And, Arabic is not just numismatics, but chancery now.
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I know enough English language to understand what they say and this claim is simply not something they make. They say these languages were important in trade, not that it was common languages spoken in
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languages being "common" in the kingdom is just assumptions based on coins. I don't see why coin languages cannot be explained in article as they are and why they must be in this specific field.--
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for the content in the destination pages and must not be deleted as long as the copies exist. For attribution and to access older versions of the copied text, please see the history links below.
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It has become painfully obvious you want to present the infobox of the Kingdom of Georgia as a single language kingdom(which it wasn't), untouched/unconquered by outside forces, which it wasn't(
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As regards the caption beneath the map portraying the peak territorial expansion of the Kingdom of Georgia, what do people feel is more appropriate for Knowledge from a language perspective:
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Mikberidze books entire section is strictly on "currency" and he does not attempt make any assumption about common language knowledge of Georgia. Second book does reference trade partners.--
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All I can say is that I read what your source says and it only talks about languages of Georgia's foreign trade partners, so it is not relevant to this specific section of infobox.
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Yes, I'm sure you're upset about Arabic and Persian, but even Mikaberidze doesn't say "trade partners", which you conveniently missed. You only see what you want to see. "
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Please take a look at this article. User above is absolutely noncompromisingly biased and pushing fraudulent information and ignores a credible European armorial by
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country, when authors themselves are strictly taking about importance of Arabic and Persian trade partners, rather than commonality of this language among locals.--
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566:- I think you'll find that not only was it a different user who made the original edit this is a reference to, but also a different user who "added back edit
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seem to incorrectly imply that it was I who misspelled those words. Was this a mistake on your part or did you intend it to be a sleight? Regardless, I
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You are a vandal and stop removing the sourced information! Stop vandalism! See the pages presented in the article. Also there is summery in English!
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non-Georgian languages listed in the infobox. Clearly this kingdom used multiple languages, for coinage, and clearly this is properly referenced.
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it's just a typo because I have a lot of screens in front of me. Also, i have no comment about your "apple and oranges" babble. regards.---
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boxes serve? It is not to describe other countries populations, it is to describe Georgia so of course it is about "Georgian residents".--
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Do you even read the source! It is the SAME COA. It is the oldest dated COA for the kingdom. Stop vandalism and removing sourced content!
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Also, Armenian would certainly be more common in the Georgia kingdom than Arabic even if there is no bilingual Georgian-Armenian coins.
863:" The current CoA will remain in place! " - it shows clearly how biased and noncompromising you are. Your behavior will be addressed.
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let me note what issues are. Others should be aware so they can comment as it is not enough for one or two people to decide clearly.
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And i'm the one who said above that if your edit is endorsed by other editors, then it would be perfectly fine for me. Regards.---
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And that is your interpretation of the infobox. I see nothing stating "Common languages" has to indicate "Georgian residents". --
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570:" as you put it. Your edit war is being held with somebody else entirely, thankyou very much, and I accept your apology.
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I don't see why coin languages cannot be explained in article as they are and why they must be in this specific field.
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sources that make no mention of languages, you better add Kipchak, since apparently you haven't read this article. --
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Arabic served as a lingua franca in Georgia due to the significance of commercial ties with the Islamic world
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Provided books also don't make claims that coin languages were indicative of domestic language demographics.
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IP, again, there is not a single source for your edit in the article, stop it before being blocked, please.
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This sounds highly like POV and seems almost completely irrelevant. The current CoA will remain in place!
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again bore evidence of foreign influence as they combined Georgian, Arabic, and Persian inscriptions.
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and all the content that I have removed WILL be restored via rewriting by the end of this week. Per
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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languages in the infobox, since they also state Georgian language, along with Arabic and Persian.
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What part of my question you cannot understand.? See the source information in the image'!
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I've provided the source but this user is vandalising again. Please see the source. Thanks
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it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Knowledge cannot accept
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Stop removing the COA. It is sourced which you can easily access in its description.
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It says nothing about how common these languages were among Georgia residents.
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What was the actual name in Georgian? It could not have been Sakartvelos. --
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other editors and edit warring (could lead you to a block), please provide
520:"Kingdom of Georgia in 1184-1230 at the peak of its territorial expansion"
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a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement
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Wrong. As clearly stated, Georgian coins used Arabic language per Vacca
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for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. --
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The present article claims that the kingdom was established in 888, 975
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As Georgia came under the Mongol yoke in the late 13â14th centuries,
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Sounds like speculation to me. Where is Middle Georgian sourced? --
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I want to make a note that this is planning to be revised under
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for your edit. Also, please focus on content, not users. Thanks.
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Just as you stretch meaning of what coin inscriptions mean
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I know enough English language to understand when someone
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This article has been chosen as this week's effort for
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rather than commonality of this language among locals.
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Source themselves say these languages were important
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796:please stop edit war and removing credible COA by
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1224:Thank you! --
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544:). Regards.---
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1544:That is your
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1513:that case. --
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1378:discussed.--
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1199:Hello all!
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1022:User:Vif12vf
1020:
1017:Coat of arms
997:â Preceding
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1554:Kansas Bear
1515:Kansas Bear
1415:Kansas Bear
1343:Kansas Bear
1294:Kansas Bear
1178:Sennecaster
1173:WP:CVREPEAT
1151:Sennecaster
1133:copyrighted
765:I removed "
745:Bencemagyar
680:Bencemagyar
593:regards.---
367:Middle Ages
314:Middle Ages
1869:Categories
1356:Georgia.--
1204:WP:Discord
1029:User:Kober
927:canvassing
894:User:Kober
1265:for trade
702:Wikaviani
656:Wikaviani
595:Wikaviani
564:Wikaviani
546:Wikaviani
118:Georgians
39:is rated
1823:coins.--
1308:in trade
1097:Dragovit
999:unsigned
952:unsigned
904:unsigned
867:unsigned
827:unsigned
723:Eurasian
716:Eurasian
484:Untitled
280:Caucasia
274:inactive
248:inactive
243:Caucasia
1123:. (See
923:Comment
462:history
452:Copied
439:history
429:Copied
394:on the
154:on the
114:Georgia
41:C-class
1226:ferret
1219:WP:CCI
1129:unless
771:Zaslav
47:scale.
743:ok.--
458:oldid
435:oldid
28:This
1848:talk
1829:talk
1814:talk
1753:talk
1729:talk
1723:. --
1679:talk
1664:talk
1594:talk
1573:talk
1558:talk
1550:JDLI
1536:talk
1519:talk
1434:talk
1419:talk
1384:talk
1362:talk
1347:talk
1341:. --
1316:talk
1298:talk
1282:talk
1249:talk
1239:Name
1230:talk
1184:Chat
1157:Chat
1101:talk
1076:talk
1046:talk
1007:talk
960:talk
912:talk
875:talk
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684:talk
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630:talk
599:talk
576:talk
550:talk
530:talk
517:or:
498:talk
470:diff
464:) â
447:diff
441:) â
116:and
1585:".
1511:NOT
1477:all
1206:'s
1140:.
900:.
562:Hi
490:and
386:Low
146:Top
1871::
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53::
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