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Subsequent investigation revealed that just before the explosion in
Doterel, two men were ordered to throw the jar overboard. While cleaning the leaking explosive liquid from beneath the forward magazine the men may have broken the rule of not having an open flame below decks.' After reading it a few times I take it to mean that the xerotine siccative was in a jar, and the jar cracked and was disposed of, after leaking some of the explosive material. Men were ordered to clean it up, but ignited the material, which then exploded the magazine. The crewmember realised this when, some time later, he served on the Indus and smelled the same smell. Can this be made clearer?
1941:'xerotine siccative'", "A surviving crewmember of Doterel, upon smelling the compound while on board Indus, stated that he had smelled xerotine siccative before the explosion of Doterel.", part of "Subsequent investigation revealed that just before the explosion in Doterel, two men were ordered to throw the jar overboard.", and part of "While cleaning the leaking explosive liquid from beneath the forward magazine the men may have broken the rule of not having an open flame below decks". It may be possible to remove the maritimequest citation from a number of those, some of the others can be sourced with
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intended role called for considerable range at little cost, and enough weaponry to enforce the petty disputes and to wage the colonial wars of the
British Empire.' This reads as they were unable to take part in naval battles and fight the warships of the great powers, but surely that is not what they were designed to do? If they were able to carry out the constabulary duties effectively and cheaply, then they could not have been thoroughly obsolete?
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the lead, I would be happy with passing it. Presumably the nominator is understandably busy at the moment, so I'm going to fail this review for now, having kept it open for longer than the usual period. I look forward to further work and a renomination when the nominator, or other editors, have more time available, as there is certainly GA potential here.
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1128:"Driers" (aka siccatives, even to this day) are often prepared in concentrated form, then added to a warmed raw oil immediately before use. This avoids the mixed oil going off in storage, it also reduces the risk of fire from the exothermic reaction of a drying oil, as described above. A typical recipe for such a siccative at this time would be mostly
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1952:", "Reverend Thomas Bridges, a missionary at Ushuaia, presided over the funeral of the sailors killed in the explosion" and "A memorial plaque was placed in the "British section" of Punta Arenas Cemetery in 1936". I am entirely confident in the quality of the information presented by patbrit.org. But we should double source what we can.
1151:), could be anything in terms of active chemistry, but the carrier solvent alone would be enough to cause a risk of fire in a confined space with naked flames. This is also the least viscous of the likely compounds and the most likely to leak rapidly from a cracked jar and then form a volatile vapour in a bilge space.
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I was just getting ready to remove it, but when I reread the paragraph, I don't think it is extremely contradictory. I will rewrite it later to avoid confusion. The ship was obsolete in that it was useless in a full-scale war; however, for minor policing done by Great
Britain throughout the world,
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The article is in good condition, though it hasn't been worked on in a while. While I feel there is a little more to be said on some details, the article can be reasonably considered to be comprehensive in its coverage of the major points. But for a few issues, such as the sourcing and the length of
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These two sentences appear to be contradictory - 'They were thoroughly obsolete by 1880, in the sense that they could neither fight another major warship, nor outrun it, and were therefore unable to take part in contemporary naval warfare against the ships of another great power. Nevertheless, their
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A drying oil is a vegetable oil prepared with a drier (usually a lead compound at this time, or a mixture with another metal salt). They cure by oxidation, which is an exothermic process. Wadded-up finishing rags discarded on a hot day often cause fires. In the right conditions, the heat of curing
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I'm a furniture maker, so I have some familiarity with these oils and their fire hazard. Despite this though, I have no idea what a "xerotine siccative" was - I can guess at several things it could have been and at least three different chemical hazards that could have caused this explosion. Really
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Could any of you chaps shed some light on this sentence? - 'flammable oil drying compound called "xerotine siccative"' - I can't bally well make it it out. Does it mean it was a flammable compound used to dry oil, a drying compound made of flammable oil or a compound designed to dry flammable oil -
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Do you have any info on the intended use of the
Doterel? Why was it down at Punta Arenas? If there is no info on the mission of the Doterel perhaps there's something on what the Osprey-class sloops were used for. I don't know if this info is readily available but it would augment what appears to
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What makes maritimequest.com, wrecksite.eu and patbrit.org reliable sources? There is heavy reliance on primary sources, but little in the way of secondary sources. More of these should probably be consulted, especially if the reliability of the websites is called into question. OR generally looks
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When you state that there is a large amount of primary sources, are you referring to the information from the house of commons? The sentence which stated that they were obsolete is unsourced. The combination of the fact that it is unsourced and that it contradicts the next sentence leads me to
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Isn't it quaintly
Victorian? From the accounts I've read it was a compound provided to ships to "dry oil". I imagine this means it was a powerful solvent, and clearly the vapours were explosive in the right conditions. If I was guessing, I'd say it was much like modern petrol - a fairly light
1742:
Well not just them, but to be clear I don't have a problem with them at all. It's more the preponderance of primary sources and a lack of secondary sources, especially when it comes to the sinking and the investigations. Some more up-to-date scholarship would be very useful here to build on the
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Maritimequest currently sources "In
September 1881, inquiries into the explosion determined that it was caused by the detonation of coal gas in the bunkers and that no crew members were at fault", part of "On 21 November 1881, an explosion occurred in Triumph caused by a drying compound called
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There's a brief mention of it in an 1899 American
Chemical Society article. Here's a reference: EXPLOSIONS CAUSED BY COMMONLY OCCURRING SUBSTANCES. Charles E. Munroe J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1899, 21 (4), pp 317–346. It was an additive to oil paint to make it "dry" (that is, thicken and harden) more
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I don't mind doing that, but to be honest the better option might be a quick fail in that case. You probably don't want to rush settling into college life, or have this hanging over your head while you get adjusted. You'd then have all the time you needed/wanted to work on the article before
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This section is a little convoluted - 'A surviving crewmember of
Doterel, upon smelling the compound while on board Indus, stated that he had smelled xerotine siccative before the explosion of Doterel. He explained to authorities that a jar of liquid had cracked while being moved below deck.
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I feel like the discontinuance of xerotine siccative seems out of place. Since it appears that xerotine siccative was the cause of the explostion, maybe it would make sense to split the paragraph and use more information about how the xerotine siccative exploded. If nothing contradicts
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1174:. I won't have time to add to it for a long while; however, if anyone would like to add to it, the effort would be appreciated. I have an accumulation of refs on the article, some of which require the user to be in the United States, but it could help you with your search.
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Ryan, I see what you're saying, but it would break the chronological narrative. I think it's fine as it stands. What would be useful is to find out where she stopped between
Sheerness and Punta Arenas so that we can fill out the "Service" section a little more.
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it was useful. I also have one request. I am packing up and getting ready to move to college on Monday. I will be on the road for three days and will be busy adjusting after that. Is it possible that you can put a longer than average hold on this nomination?
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information from the primary sources. It's your call about the obsolete statement, but removing it unless it can be contextualised with the following sentence makes sense. As to 34telegrammed, that can be attributed to a cat on the keyboard I'm afraid.
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I don't do searches, I ask one of the chemistry house elves to do it for me. I'll post if he finds something. He also knows a chap in the USA who is an expert on the manufacture of authentic lead boiled linseed. Either of them might know about Naval
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I don't think we know what XS was yet, or whether it was the 2nd or 3rd mechanism that started the fire. Terebenes and petroleum distillates are both likely constituents and likely causes, but this doesn't tell us if 2 or 3 was the cause.
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I see your one book is by
Winfield. Since you only use one page (as far as I can tell), go ahead and put the full reference into ref #4. No need to split it out underneath since you only reference one page. Does that make sense?
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I appreciate that there is little to say, but can the introduction be expanded a little further, maybe to cover her designed role and operations, the recovery of the wreck, the investigations and their discoveries, their effects,
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The article is in pretty good shape, but the issue with the sources could be a sticking point. I'll have a look myself to see if there's anything I can recommend. In the meantime I'll put it on hold to let you address these
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quickly. It consisted of an oxidizing agent dissolved in a "most volatile petroleum product." Little wonder that it exploded! I haven't been able to find its exact composition, probably because it was proprietary.
1857:, which is already in the references, and contemporary newspaper accounts of the details abound (try a Google search for "hms doterel fenian Jeremiah O'Donovan Rossa"). Sorry not to just do it myself.
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Overall you have a tidy little article. The writing is fine, sourcing is good, images are good, it's stable. The issue the GA reviewer will likely have is with the comprehensive requirements of the
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Can the crew section be combined say with the intro paragraph of the Design section? It's one sentence and one sentence is usually not enough to make a section. Also the wording should be "Doterel
832:
In the Aftermath were there any official statements, memorials, remuneration for the families in England? I see the plaque at Punta Arenas I'm just wondering if anything was done back in England?
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there. I've added some details on the colonial missions of these ships, and taken out the obsolescence issue. While I remember, can we have a page reference for the the Preston & Major cite?
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So the siccative is a credible and likely culprit, but we can't expand details of what it was and how it causes a fire without knowing more. Probably through the RN's specification for it.
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1804:'s talk page. He was also a major contributor to the article. If he isn't going to be able to make many improvements, give me until Monday evening and I'll see what I can do.
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Perhaps explain in a note who the Feinians were, and if there was any particular reason to suspect their involvement. Had there been any previous bombing incidents for example?
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I've been asked to perform a peer review of this article, I will review it in light of the fact that it is nominated for GA consideration. I am not the GA reviewer though.
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it's impractical to say much more without some further referencing (probably to an old RN standard for their supply - it'll be in a filing cabinet somewhere in Pompey).
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Should causes of the explosion come before the section "Aftermath"? Then the information about the siccative being discontinued would be moved to the aftermath section.
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Instead of whole sections for just one or two sentences on the design and construction, try amalgamating these into one introductory section. See featured article
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939:. I asked some questions that may help guide you a bit. You also need to beef up the lead. I don't think it'll take much more work and with the wait time at
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120612050112/http://www.nmm.ac.uk/memorials/Memorial.cfm?Photos=Yes&MemorialPage=8&MemorialID=M2373&Full=Transcript
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it's dashed unclear. Also does anyone actually know what xerotine siccative actually is? Should it have it's own article? Thanks chaps, hope you can help.
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fine, but secondary sources should really be employed more heavily as a safeguard, as OR can unintentionally creep in through primary sources.
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A consequence of a disastrous event (the term of the word that would be used if it was used for the information about xerotine siccative)
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had a normal complement of 140–150 men." It did have a full complement when it sank, it's not hypothetical so remove the "would have".
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Overall sources and expansions note. The article could be greatly improved with the inclusion of some Spanish Language sources.
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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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You should add alt text if you want to take this article further, but as far as I know, it is not a requirement for GA status
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I've hit a bit of a rich seam, and it will take a while to collate. In the meantime, if you want to incorporate stuff, try
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The lead is minimal and should include more on it's construction, naming, commanding officer and cause of explosion. Keep
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Were there other ships along with her when she exploded? Was there a rescue effort or how did the survivors get ashore?
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She's a Doterel-class (which were a development of the Osprey). Where did you form the opinion that she was an Osprey?
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Hmm, the problem I see is that I think the section heading I chose of "aftermath" has two major dictionary definitions.
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Outstanding! If you'll pardon the pun that 'dash' in the description makes all the dashed difference! Thanks chaps!
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you should have plenty of time. Best of luck to you and if you have questions please leave them on my talk page.
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http://www.nmm.ac.uk/memorials/Memorial.cfm?Photos=Yes&MemorialPage=8&MemorialID=M2373&Full=Transcript
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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1136:. This is an oxidiser, so if it's suddenly mixed with anything flammable, there's a risk of fire. Mixed with
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This is the list of problems I'd like to get resolved before it is re-nominated to become a Good Article.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Could you explain what sort of things 'constabulary duties' might involve when it is first mentioned.
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There's some stuff in Hansard about remuneration for the families. I'll dig in when I get a chance.
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Note that this is not a complete list of improvements and other editors are free to expand on it.
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Lead needs expansion. It should be two paragraphs at minimum to adequately cover the article
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which shows that Doterel called at Madeira and Montevideo before arriving at Punta Arenas.
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The Fenian connection can be expanded. I haven't got the time for this at the moment, but
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110927031340/http://www.met.police.uk/history/fenians.htm
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Note 3, about the Fenians, seems a little choppy (not necessarily a requirement for GA)
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Addressed - she sailed from Sheerness with 160 onboard, and I've expanded the point.
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A period of time following a disastrous event (the term of the word that is used now)
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I noticed you changed telegrammed to 34telegrammed. What does 34telegrammed mean?
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This is showing up on the main English page with 1861, but that should be 1881?
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Patbrit.org is currently sources "Doterel was ordered from Chatham Dockyard", "
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it seems like it would give enough information for a second full paragraph.
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I found an interesting quote from the captain at the bottom of
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in mind, the lead should be a summary of the entire article.
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claimed that the Fenians had planted "infernal devices" in
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ship - missed the class part of that sentence. My fault.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Done. Doterel was a Doterel-class sloop, not an Osprey.
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and other Royal Navy ships. The claim is supported by
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A fact from this article appeared on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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Well, the letter you're looking for was reprinted in
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This article has been checked against the following
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of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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1871:That would indeed by very interesting, echoes of
1687:believe it should be removed. What do you think?
965:Thanks for the short review - much appreciated.
879:-class sloops, but I thought the Doterel was an
2033:This message was posted before February 2018.
1800:Before doing that, you should leave a note on
693:. Great thing, the internet! There is also a
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1990:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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1945:rather than maritimequest.
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1044:Outstanding - thank you.
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719:. Best of all so far, is
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319:list of open tasks
232:project discussion
174:content assessment
60:Article milestones
27:HMS Doterel (1880)
2065:
1934:Sourcing quality
1824:
1786:renominating it.
1778:
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1707:
1603:suitable captions
1408:HMS Speedy (1782)
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1011:original research
721:this from the NYT
687:The Royal Gazette
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2003:this simple FaQ
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1525:It follows the
1499:(major aspects)
1292:This review is
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116:Did you know?
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1291:
1280:Instructions
1208:Andy Dingley
1186:
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1158:Andy Dingley
1149:white spirit
1091:
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851:Good images.
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583:this article
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180:WikiProjects
146:
139:
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130:
121:
113:
83:
48:reassessment
46:
31:
30:
26:
1374:word choice
1294:transcluded
1113:linseed oil
937:GA criteria
816:Addressed.
739:Peer review
401:Structure:
43:renominated
2109:Categories
2096:Report bug
1823:Review me!
1777:Review me!
1734:Review me!
1706:Review me!
1436:verifiable
1247:Authorship
1233:GA toolbox
1193:Review me!
1138:turpentine
1109:drying oil
1107:A link to
1081:Review me!
792:would have
676:Review me!
655:this forum
635:Review me!
604:Review me!
546:Review me!
145:(pictured)
120:column on
90:Not listed
2079:this tool
2072:this tool
1629:Pass/Fail
1509:(focused)
1306:Reviewer:
1270:Templates
1261:Reviewing
1226:GA Review
110:Main Page
2085:Cheers.—
1275:Criteria
1202:potions.
1130:litharge
362:criteria
293:European
285:Maritime
133:26 April
1999:my edit
1851:Doterel
1640:issues.
1623:Overall
1378:fiction
1350:(prose)
1145:naphtha
1030:Mahousu
945:H1nkles
896:H1nkles
877:Doterel
749:WP:LEAD
289:British
170:B-class
140:Doterel
112:in the
68:Process
1579:images
1554:stable
1552:It is
1530:policy
1490:It is
1429:It is
1380:, and
1370:layout
1341:It is
1326:review
881:Osprey
754:Done.
176:scale.
71:Result
29:was a
1976:Vesey
1918:Vesey
1877:Benea
1817:Vesey
1788:Benea
1771:Vesey
1745:Benea
1728:Vesey
1700:Vesey
1660:Benea
1382:lists
1328:(see
1309:Benea
1296:from
1187:Vesey
1075:Vesey
892:class
670:Vesey
629:Vesey
598:Vesey
540:Vesey
241:Ships
199:Ships
135:1881
1969:Ryan
1959:This
1943:this
1911:Ryan
1881:talk
1863:talk
1859:Shem
1837:talk
1833:Shem
1810:Ryan
1792:talk
1764:Ryan
1749:talk
1721:Ryan
1693:Ryan
1664:talk
1433:and
1403:etc.
1366:lead
1364:for
1334:here
1330:here
1313:talk
1212:talk
1180:Ryan
1162:talk
1098:talk
1068:Ryan
1060:here
1050:talk
1046:Shem
1034:talk
1019:talk
1015:Shem
999:talk
971:talk
967:Shem
949:talk
921:talk
917:Shem
900:talk
864:talk
860:Shem
841:talk
837:Shem
822:talk
818:Shem
803:talk
799:Shem
780:talk
776:Shem
760:talk
756:Shem
729:talk
725:Shem
717:this
715:and
713:this
703:talk
699:Shem
691:here
663:Ryan
622:Ryan
614:here
591:Ryan
559:talk
555:Shem
533:Ryan
224:Ship
138:HMS
65:Date
2053:RfC
2023:to
2013:to
1362:MoS
941:GAC
2111::
2066:.
2061:}}
2057:{{
1883:)
1865:)
1839:)
1794:)
1751:)
1666:)
1631::
1625::
1607::
1599:b
1593::
1585:a
1562::
1556:.
1538::
1532:.
1511::
1507:b
1501::
1497:a
1494:.
1474::
1470:OR
1466:c
1460::
1452:b
1446::
1442:a
1439:.
1386::
1376:,
1372:,
1368:,
1358:b
1352::
1348:a
1345:.
1324:GA
1315:)
1214:)
1164:)
1100:)
1052:)
1036:)
1021:)
1013:.
1001:)
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951:)
923:)
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866:)
843:)
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805:)
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762:)
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705:)
561:)
451:/
291:/
287:/
283::
2098:)
2094:(
2081:.
2074:.
1879:(
1861:(
1835:(
1790:(
1747:(
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1591:)
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1468:(
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1384:)
1360:(
1311:(
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1160:(
1096:(
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1048:(
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1017:(
997:(
969:(
947:(
919:(
898:(
862:(
839:(
820:(
801:(
778:(
758:(
727:(
701:(
616:.
557:(
325:.
238:.
182::
126:.
118:"
114:"
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
