Talk:Holy Trinity Cathedral of Tbilisi

425:ტაძარი მიწისქვეშა და მიწისზედა ნაწილებისაგან შედგება. მიწისქვეშა ნაწილში 5 ეკლესიაა, ხოლო მიწისზედაში - 4. სამების ტაძარი შეიცავს მთავარანგელოზთა, იოანე ნათლისმცემლის, წმიდა ნინოს, წმიდა გიორგის, წმიდა ნიკოლოზის, 12 მოციქულის, და ყოველთა წმიდანთა სახელობის ეკლესიებს. ესოდენ დიდი სიმაღლისა და ფართის ტაძარი საქართველოში ჯერ არ აშენებულა. ტაძრის მოცულობა 102 კვ. მეტრია, თავისი სავესტიბიულო ნაწილით კი - 137 კვ.მ. ფართობი 5000 კვ. მეტრზე მეტია. იგი აღჭურვილია უახლესი საკომუნიკაციო, ელექტრო, გათბობის და ვენტილაციის აპარატურით. სამების საკათედრო ლავრის სიმაღლე მიწიდან ჯვრის ძირამდე 77 მეტრია. საკუთრივ ჯვრის სიმაღლე კი შვიდმეტრნახევარია. მიწის ქვემოთ საძირკვლამდე სიღრმე 13 მეტრია. სიგრძე - 70 მ, სიგანე - 64 მ. თუმცა ტაძრის გრანდიოზულობა მხოლოდ პარამეტრებით არ განისაზღვრება. მისი ექსტერიერი და ინტერიერი ძალიან საინტერესოდ არის გადაწყვეტილი. ის ერთ-ერთი დომინანტი ნაგებობაა მტკვრის მარცხენა სანაპიროს თავზე და ფაქტობრივად, ძველი თბილისის ზემო მხარე უკავია. საინტერესოა ისიც, რომ წმიდა ელიას მთაზე მშენებარე სამების საკათედრო ტაძარი ზუსტად მამა დავითის ეკლესიის აღმოსავლეთ ღერძზეა განთავსებული, ამდენად, თავისი გეოგრაფიული მდებარეობით ტაძარს სივრცე უკვე მოგებული აქვს. იშვიათობაა ისიც, რომ ნაგებობაში შესვლა სამ სხვადასხვა დონეზე ხდება და ის, ერთბაშად, ათეულ ათასობით მლოცველს დაიტევს. ამჟამად, ტაძრის ძირითადი სხეულის მშენებლობა ფაქტობრივად დასრულებულია. ტაძარი შიგნიდან მთლიანად გაილესა, მისი გუმბათი ფურცლოვანი სპილენძით დაიხურა. გარედან მოპირკეთებულია ქართული ქვებით: ბოლნისის ტუფითა და კურსების გრანიტით. ინტერიერში გამოყვანილია ქართული, ბოდბის გამარმარილოებული კირქვა, ძირს დაგებულია ჩინური და ინდური გრანიტი, კედლებზე - იტალიური, ეგვიპტური და ბერძნული მარმარილოები. კანკელი ბერძნული მარმარილოთია დამზადებული. წინასწარი გაანგარიშებით, ტაძარი 9 ბალიან მიწისძვრაზეა გათვლილი. 428:სრულიად საქართველოს კათოლიკოს-პატრიარქის, უწმიდესისა და უნეტარესის ილია II ლოცვა-კურთხევით მთავარი, სამების ტაძრის მოხატვის სამუშაოებს კოორდინაციას გაუწევს მხატვარი ამირან გოგლიძე. ტაძარს მოხატავენ კანონიკის სრული დაცვით და იმ ტრადიციათა გათვალისწინებით, რაც ქართულ ფრესკულ მხატვრობასა და ხატწერაშია დამკვიდრებული. ამასთანავე, ეკლესიის მოხატულობის კონცეფციის განსასაზღვრად ჩამოყალიბებულია ხელოვნებათმცოდნეთა ჯგუფი და სამების ტაძრის მოხატვაც მათ დასკვნებზე დაყრდნობით შესრულდება. გარდა მოხატვისა, ეკლესიის საკურთხეველი მოზაიკით უნდა მოიჭიქოს. ბატონ არჩილ მინდიაშვილის თქმით: „ერთ-ერთი ურთულესი საქმე იქნება მხატვრობა, რადგან აქ სირთულეს შექმნის ფრესკის მასშტაბის მონახვა თუ რა ზომის უნდა იყოს კომპოზიცია, რათა ის ამხელა სივრცეში არც დაიკარგოს და არც ამოვარდეს. გადასაწყვეტია საერთო ფერთა გამაც. რაც მთავარია, დიდი სირთულე, ალბათ, შეგვხვდება მოზაიკაში, რადგან ეს, უკვე დიდი ხნის წინ დაკარგული ტრადიციაა“. მოზაიკით მოიჭიქება საკურთხეველი, რაც ძალზედ შრომატევადი და ამასთან ერთად მეტად ძვირადღირებული სამუშაოა. -- 461:, This is not the first page you are deleting the changes from. You delete several link with reasons of 1 of them having no reference to Sameba without having properly read the references. This is quite unprofessional and undermines your goal to be objective. You could have at least searched keywords on the page. And you also claimed Armeniapedia not to be a valid website. Tell me, why would you also wish to delete the trace of other links? It's the Wiki way to discuss here first. I have undone your action and also added other links and a photograph for you and other readers to observe. As well as I'd recommend you to visit Sameba yourself, and have a look, that 755:

1990s a huge Georgian Cathedral was built there. It's a very simple truth, and I really don't understand what is so hard to believe about it, what is POV about it, and what your problem is with these facts. What is obvious is that you do not like to hear this part of history for some reason, and do not want to accept it nor see it on Knowledge. I would hope that there are Georgian sources covering this as well, and imagine you could probably find them, but based on what I've seen happen here I doubt you will look.

1229:

being cited for specialist architectural terms or descriptions, it is being cited as an English-language source on the contemporary history of the site and local public opinion about the cathedral. ArmeniaNow is not an "Armenian publication", it is a British-owned and run independent news organization based in Yerevan. Also, there is not a single source presented that disputes any of the claims, so there is no evidence to back your assertion that there is media "saying the complete opposite".

176: 155: 1015:), co-written by an Armenian and a Georgian,for what it's worth, which details both ancient and recent history of the place, the "bones" scandal during construction, etc., in a non-nationalistic tone. I believe it could be used to document the most controversial parts. It also mentions the efforts that have been made by all parties involved to preserve the remnants of the Pantheon since 2002, which also deserves mention, and is omitted from the more polemical sources. 71: 53: 555:, In accordance to your comments and notes I shall bring new links and references. Thank you for, I shall call it, help! But my comments about you being not objective and not willing for the truth to be shown are still in place and have even strengthened. In addition I can send you a movie showing you how things were taking place for Sameba construction. I still believe you might be interested in the real facts. 680:

than a travel agency I have to say) he removed it again. When I added a reference to part of it, he added tags noting other parts are unreferenced. Then he went and added an unreliable references tag to the Armenian Pantheon of Tbilisi article. But I ask - why no such tags for the text about the Holy Trinity? So I've added them, since the entire article other than what I wrote is completely unreferenced.

419:სართულებს შორის ურთიერთობით, ვერტიკალური კომუნიკაციებით, შიდა სივრცის გადაწყვეტით, ეს არის ჯვარ-გუმბათოვნისა და ცენტრალურ-გუმბათოვანი ტაძრის სინთეზი. თუ ცენტრალურ-გუმბათოვანი ტაძარი კელდებზე ეყრდნობა, ხოლო ჯვარ-გუმბათოვანი კი ოთხ სვეტზე, სამების ეკლესია რვა სვეტზეა გაწეული. გუმბათის პარამეტრები არ არის დამოკიდებული აბსიდის ზომებზე, ამით ქალაქის იერსახეში გუმბათმა და თავად ტაძარმა უფრო მონუმენტური სახე მიიღო. 287: 260: 1213:

a dubious website with nothing corroborating it. If you want these sources to remain, you need to keep them with relevant tags, since their authoritativeness has not been established. For every dubious Armenian online publication, blog and encyclopedia, one can find Azerbaijani or Georgian counterparts that say the complete opposite. This is not a competition of who accumulates more garbage sources. --

81: 297: 363: 186: 22: 422:სამების ტაძარი მოპირკეთდება ბოლნისის ტუფით. პროექტის თანახმად, წმიდა სამების საკათედრო ტაძრის კომპლექსი შედგება: ტაძრის, სამრეკლოს, საპატრიარქოს, მამათა მონასტრის, სასულიერო სემინარიისა და აკადემიის, სასტუმროებისა და სხვა დამხმარე შენობებისაგან. მთლიანი კომპლექსისათვის ელიას მთაზე 11 ჰექტარი მიწის ფართობი გამოიყო. 1228:

You have presented no evidence whatsoever that it is a "dubious travel guide" and given that this guidebook is currently into its 5th edition, with all but the 4th edition written by the same author, suggests that it is anything but "dubious" but is successful and popular. The guidebook source is not

1186:

I'm not too worried about the section title. It is indeed difficult to summarize accurately in a few words the issues. "Controversy about its construction on a cemetery" removes the ethnic/religious angle but is otherwise clear if a bit long. In my mind, "Construction over an Armenian cemetery" could

1132:

I am not sure, but in my opinion stating "Armenian cemetery controversy" sounds like there was an unrelated controversy nearby the project, a statement which is proven false. The project was realized on the site of the cemetery. So maybe "Armenian cemetery removal" or along the lines is the best bet.

780:

References seem to be the problem here, and given the controversy it would be prudent to have scholarly references. Or at least media reports from reputable outlets not based in Armenia and Georgia. This region media landscape is not exactly know for unbiased and neutral reporting, and should thus be

1212:

Since when is a dubious travel guide an authoritative source on architecture and/or the history of the site? The same applies to the cited Armenian online publications, like ArmeniaNow, articles of which seem to be based on hearsay of local Armenians. And again, same applies for www.encyclopedia.am,

915:

In particular, since Armenian is the writers native language, let's assume that they are most concisely able to express themselves in Armenian. The whole thing in Armenian says "The seminary was built next to the cathedral on the grounds of Khojavank." The English pretty much means the same thing,

808:գերեզմանոցի տարածքում literally is correctly translated "On the grounds of the Armenian Khojivank Cemetery." It does not say "next to", despite what Google translate may tell you. I told you already, you do not seem to understand what the source says, so please stop reverting what you don't like. 719:

I did not call the existence of Khojavank a hoax, but allegations that the cathedral is built on the Armenian bones are overinflated and serve to illustrate Armenians as martyrs at the hands of wicked Georgians. And you don't need to remove the tags you added. They are to remind the editors that the

1010:

about the destruction of cemeteries in Tbilisi in the 1930s, which says (my translation) "the Armenian Khodjivank (sic) on Elia hill (today the site of the new Sameba), the Russian military cemetery in Navtlughi, the catholic cemetery on Chonkadze St - all disappeared, and where they stood, gardens

744:

No, it does not bother me at all. But I'm afraid what you call "a correct history and article" is just POV pushing. I'd also ask you to find a third-party source for your claims. Otherwise all these bone-related stories based on a single Armenian (and Armenian-language) source is a just an Armenian

704:

What's really impressive is that you don't see how ridiculous it was for you (after twice deleting my text and calling it "most probably a nationalist hoax") to add three tags asking for references to my two sentences referring to Armenians, yet not a single tag in the 7 remaining paragraphs of the

596:

Firs off, I don’t much care about what you think about me. Neither are your thoughts about my “objectivity” of any importance here. Knowledge has a rule: comment on content, not on a contributor. So I’d recommend you get some basic idea of Knowledge policies before posing as an expert here. Second,

823:

What's so difficult to understand about "Three years ago the largest Georgian Orthodox Church Holy Trinity was constructed in Havlabar and now next to the church is being constructed a seminary in the area which used to be the oldest Armenian cemetery “Khojivank.”"??? That's what the article says,

729:

You said, in response to my adding text saying that the new cathedral was built on the site of a destroyed Armenian cemetery and church that what I had written was "most probably a nationalist hoax", and you deleted it. I am not interested in making Armenians or Georgians look like anything, I am

1369: 754:

I have not written the word bone, and have not written "all these" bone related stories. I have written that there was a huge Armenian cemetery called Khojavank, and it had a church in it called Holy Mother of God, and most of it was destroyed (by order of Beria) in the days of the USSR. In the

679:

The only reference in this entire article before I edited it was a link to a tour agency. That's it. When I added two sentences that referred to Armenians, they were removed as a "most probably a nationalist hoax" by Kober. When I put the text back with a reference he did not like (much better

569:

By the way Kober, you haven't yet attended the discussion at the Georgian Orthodox Church even after being reminded and having logged and screened it for many times. Previously you were editing it "back" on daily bases and suddenly you disappeared. We shall also talk about objectiveness there! I

1152:

mentioned above an article in Georgian about the process and the solution between the affected parties, including the Georgian administration. This document is no longer online, and I can't access it anymore, as it probably was deleted (it was a blog entry). If anyone has access or can find the

997:

on the opening of the paragraph, by opposing both Meowy's and my proposed versions. I think we can try to de-escalate this on this talk page rather than calling in the troops. Can we all put forward our positions and try to get some consensus on what needs to be on the article, what sources are

1042:

called "the Armenian Pantheon of Tbilisi". What is now being called "the Armenian Pantheon of Tbilisi" - the few remaining grave markers grouped together around the reconstructed monument to Raffi - is a modern creation. Krosensterg appears to be weasily using the fact of this modern "Armenian

1018:

Finally, it seems well established to me that, contrary to what Krosenstern keeps pushing, the fact that the whole site of the Sameba Complex used to be (before the 1930s) an Armenian complex, with both church and cemetery, is well-established. The 1914 Baedeker map is clear on that; I made an

1001:

Regarding the first point, I think that although an article is dedicated to the Armenian Pantheon, mention of it in the Sameba article is necessary, as both the choice of the site and the problems during construction initiated protests. Mentioning that another church used to stand where Sameba

807:

Kober, it seems you are not fluent in Armenian, yet you are insisting you understand what the referenced Armenian text says. You clearly do not understand. իսկ այժմ կառուցվում է հաջորդը` հնագույն հայկական Խոջիվանք եկեղեցու գերեզմանոցի տարածքում: is the line in question, and Խոջիվանք եկեղեցու

888:

It is not up to you to decide which version is correct. In particular as Armenianow is an English language news outlet, and that thus the Armenian version is likely to be the translation. Nevermind anyway that for controversial claims such as these high-quality sources should be used, and not

601:

and the “foto” the source of which has already been proved to be non-reliable. The rest of your links bear a semblance of reliable sources, but still they are not neutral, third-party sources and present only a one-sided story, reflecting exclusively Armenian nationalist view. In this case

539:

As you can see neither of your sources supports your claims. Part of them are not reliable per Knowledge policies, others do not even mention the Sameba cathedral. Hence, I'm removing your additions until you are able to provide credible, neutral, third-party sources supporting your

505:

as a source unless it is notable itslef or maintained by an expert on the subject. Not only it is not authored by an expert, but the tone of narrative and, especially, the opening sentence (prohibiting "entry for dogs and Turks") puts his/her credibility (if not sanity) in serious

958:

It seems unlikely that you care, but Kober does not speak Armenian, the source you are talking about in no uncertainty in English refers to construction on the grounds of the cemetary, and I had added a second source/reference that you ignored before deleting the paragraph.

1005:

For sources, I agree that they should be as neutral and accessible as possible. Armenian sources, preferably in English, display a pov, and should be used only to prove the existence of protests/controversy. I have looked for Georgian-language sources, and have only found

853:

The Armenian text says on the grounds, and I think it is much more likely that the Armenian is the original text, and the English is probably a google translate assisted translation. Either way, the Armenian is in fact correct, as the plaque in the pantheon will attest.

730:

interested in writing a correct history and article. The new cathedral is built on an Armenian cemetery and there are Armenian bones under it. Sorry if that bothers you. You can add the reference tags back that you had not seen fit to add originally if you care to.

465:

Armenian tombs were remade on the territory of Sameba (though changing all the old writings and the tomb-complexes). If you have any questions or really wish to know the reality of things, I'd recommend you to make deeper researches and I am readily waiting to help

1037:

I think that the 1930s destruction of the cemetery was the destruction and removal or burial of almost all of the grave markers and tombs: most of the actual graves still remained under the ground. However, what is certain is that before the destruction there was

597:

you are not the right person to dictate which discussion I should “attend”. I will be back to the articles I had edited in the past whenever I deem necessary. Back to the subject, I’m again removing the sources which don’t even mention the Sameba cathedral per

1243:

NB, The latest ref link is to the 2015 edition of the guidebook, the earlier link is was to the 2008 edition. That this particular information has been retained through all 5 editions of the guidebook is, for me, further proof of the truth of its content.

1043:

Pantheon of Tbilisi" being adjacent to the new Georgian cathedral to imply that the cathedral complex itself does not lie on the cemetery site. In reality, as you say, the entire modern complex lies within the borders of the former Armenian cemetery.

1362: 705:

article. I will remove the tags I added myself now, but please in the future assume good faith (rather than call the existence of Khojavank a hoax) and try for a bit more balance when deleting texts and demanding references. Thank you.

1303: 1178:

Looking back at what I wrote above in 2012, I think the dead link (the one to an article in Liberali magazine) was mostly about the Beria destruction of the 1930s. The second source relevant to the controversy

930:

Once again, it is not up to you to choose which version is accurate. In particular as we have an official English version, and an Armenian version whose accurate translation is disputed between you and Kober.

652:

Listen our Armenian friend, you need to cool down, avoid chauvinistic attacks on Georgian articles (before you are reported to admins) and engage in more constructive cooperation with your fellow wiki editors.

1336: 409:

Dear Luis, I started to expand the article. We need to check if the Sameba church is really the largest functioning Orthodox cathedral in the world. The website of Geo. Patriarchate says it is the third

1011:

or residential buildings were constructed". It confirms both the link between cemetery and Cathedral site, and the destruction of the cemetery in the 1930s. I just found a Russian-language reportage (

916:

though it is not quite as concise. Now let me ask you the same question I asked Kober. Why don't you have any problem with the entire remainder of this otherwise unsourced article?

1329: 1468: 1433: 131: 1402: 1258:

Damianmx, do you know what the function of a clarify tag is? It is a tag to "flag wording that is likely to be confusing to the average reader". When I put this clarify tag in

1296: 1114:

How does "Armenian cemetery controversy" sound to you? "Controversy over the site" sounds to vague and "Controversy over its construction on a cemetery" sounds too long. --

137: 1473: 1438: 529:

says that the Pantheon had been in disrepair and was renovated in 2002. Again, not a single word about the construction of Sameba or related damage to the cemetery.

1458: 1448: 353: 343: 242: 232: 107: 535:

is a web-journal, a travelogue, an account of personal impressions similar to a blog. Its authors are not known and their credibility cannot be established.

1463: 1428: 629:

Btw, can you provide a link to the PanArmenian disclaimer page? I failed to find any indication that your "foto2" is released under cc-by-sa-3.0 license.--

1100:

Ok, because it's not clear if this was done deliberately for a malicious reason (as it could well be), I fixed the point of view to reflect neutrality. --

1478: 1187:

better work (that it was controversial and why is pretty well explained in the paragraph itself). I have no objections to your changes to the paragraph.

372: 319: 270: 208: 94: 58: 1453: 1443: 1056:

BTW, Krosenstern has been blocked as a sockpuppet account of a blocked editor who has used various other socks to edit war on this article.

1175:

Thanks for your message. I don't live in Tbilisi anymore and have not focused on Georgian topics lately, but I hope I can still be of help.

890: 835: 788: 310: 265: 199: 160: 947: 874:

Upon reading the English link you posted - it in fact says quite clearly that the seminary is built upon the grounds of Khojavank.

1153:

documents that prove the inter-governmental collaboration that some people have mentioned, it should be included, as right now the

1019:

overlay of it in Google Earth, and the limits of both coincide, with the Cathedral building being at the exact church's location.

1275: 1249: 1234: 1395: 396: 1261:, I explained it was to check whether the content was a quote or not. When it was ascertained that it was, I removed the tag 1002:

Cathedral is now is also of historical interest. We should include both historical and political aspects of the situation.

1410: 1377: 1344: 1311: 33: 1271: 1245: 1230: 606:

requires us to properly attribute the claims to the cited sources and don’t present them as established facts. --

990: 493:

speaks of some unspecified damage to the Armenian pantheon. Not a single word about the construction of Sameba.

86: 695:

I agree references are needed. But it's ridiculous to see how you're adding the tags in revenge. Take care, --

1391:

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

1358:

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

1325:

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

894: 839: 825: 792: 1406: 1373: 1340: 1307: 1267:? The clarify tag is not for raising issues about source suitability, this is where such issues need to go: 943: 523:. Even this website does not relate damage to the Pantheon with the construction of the Georgian cathedral. 512: 443: 39: 1180: 1012: 490: 1264:, again explaining why I was removing it. What reason do you have for reinserting the same tag again 935: 831: 784: 21: 1195: 1027: 598: 482: 302: 191: 318:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

207:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

106:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

1218: 1119: 964: 921: 879: 859: 813: 760: 735: 710: 685: 658: 1414: 1381: 1348: 1315: 1279: 1268: 1253: 1238: 1222: 1199: 1166: 1142: 1123: 1109: 1094: 1064: 1051: 1031: 1007: 968: 951: 925: 898: 883: 863: 843: 817: 796: 764: 749: 739: 724: 714: 699: 689: 662: 633: 610: 579: 564: 544: 432: 403: 175: 154: 575: 560: 99: 993:

regarding mentions of the same controversy). Krosenstern, it seems to me that you just broke

1162: 1138: 1105: 1090: 939: 478: 1190:

If you have any other questions, please ask, and I'll try to dig into the sources again.

1292:

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

526: 1191: 1149: 1023: 603: 532: 477:, first off, be more careful when throwing accusations around; second, please consult 1422: 1387:

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

1354:

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

1321:

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

1214: 1115: 994: 960: 917: 875: 855: 809: 756: 731: 706: 681: 654: 520: 501: 400: 70: 52: 989:

Well, it looks like edit war is looming over this page (and, on a related note, at

571: 556: 474: 467: 315: 204: 1363:

Catedral de la Santísima Trinidad, Tiflis, Georgia, 2016-09-29, DD 133-135 HDR.jpg

1158: 1134: 1101: 1086: 1057: 1044: 746: 721: 696: 630: 607: 552: 541: 458: 429: 292: 286: 259: 181: 76: 496: 296: 103: 570:

think I've lost my hope of you being interested in the reality. My regards

437:

P.S. Let's put Sameba-related images here until the article is completed.

362: 826:

http://www.armenianow.com/features/7696/havlabar_armenian_community_in_tbi

185: 1077:

I have changed the title simply because the former implied there was

509:

One of sources has already been removed as a Knowledge mirror page.

1288:

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

15: 361: 415:

Soso, can you please help me in translating these passages.

1081:. Now it is clarified that the controversy is that is was 1265: 1262: 1259: 889:

potentially biased Armenian or Georgian news outlets.

745:

POV and should be presented in the article as such.--

314:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 203:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 98:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 515:is a open wiki project which anyone can edit. As a 136:This article has not yet received a rating on the 1297:Cathedral of Trinity (sameba) tbilisi georgia.jpg 1022:Sorry for this long expose, and please discuss!-- 1401:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 1368:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 1335:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 1302:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 1469:Unknown-importance Eastern Orthodoxy articles 1434:Unknown-importance Georgia (country) articles 8: 1330:2014 Tbilisi, Sobór Trójcy Świętej (17).jpg 399:. Your suggestions please. Thanks to all. 254: 149: 47: 442: 1085:(knowingly or not is another story). -- 519:, it is also not a source according to 439: 256: 151: 116:Knowledge:WikiProject Georgia (country) 49: 19: 1474:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy articles 1439:WikiProject Georgia (country) articles 998:valid, and what exactly they tell us? 119:Template:WikiProject Georgia (country) 1157:of the section is slightly biased. -- 1079:a destruction of an Armenian cemetery 454:Armenian Pantheon Partial Destruction 7: 1459:Low-importance Christianity articles 1449:Mid-importance Architecture articles 1083:constructed on the Armenian cemetery 308:This article is within the scope of 197:This article is within the scope of 92:This article is within the scope of 38:It is of interest to the following 1464:B-Class Eastern Orthodoxy articles 1429:B-Class Georgia (country) articles 328:Knowledge:WikiProject Christianity 217:Knowledge:WikiProject Architecture 14: 1479:WikiProject Christianity articles 445:File:Tbilisi Sameba Cathedral.jpg 331:Template:WikiProject Christianity 220:Template:WikiProject Architecture 295: 285: 258: 184: 174: 153: 79: 69: 51: 20: 397:Holy Trinity Cathedral, Tbilisi 348:This article has been rated as 237:This article has been rated as 1382:04:37, 12 September 2022 (UTC) 1349:04:45, 26 September 2021 (UTC) 1316:16:36, 13 September 2018 (UTC) 1: 1454:B-Class Christianity articles 1444:B-Class Architecture articles 373:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy 370:This article is supported by 322:and see a list of open tasks. 211:and see a list of open tasks. 110:and see a list of open tasks. 95:WikiProject Georgia (country) 1280:00:00, 27 January 2016 (UTC) 1254:15:54, 26 January 2016 (UTC) 1239:15:40, 26 January 2016 (UTC) 1223:04:04, 24 January 2016 (UTC) 969:15:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC) 952:08:06, 30 January 2012 (UTC) 926:23:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 899:07:50, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 884:07:24, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 864:07:17, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 844:22:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 818:18:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 797:07:59, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 765:22:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 750:18:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 740:18:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 725:18:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 715:18:29, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 700:18:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 690:18:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 1495: 1415:13:08, 12 April 2023 (UTC) 1200:14:40, 11 March 2015 (UTC) 1167:14:08, 11 March 2015 (UTC) 1143:21:32, 10 March 2015 (UTC) 1124:19:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC) 1110:14:43, 10 March 2015 (UTC) 1095:13:45, 10 March 2015 (UTC) 663:16:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC) 634:08:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC) 611:07:50, 14 March 2010 (UTC) 580:12:55, 12 March 2010 (UTC) 433:06:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC) 354:project's importance scale 243:project's importance scale 138:project's importance scale 122:Georgia (country) articles 1396:Tbilisi (30416507376).jpg 565:23:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC) 545:17:05, 4 March 2010 (UTC) 485:. Back to your "sources": 404:18:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC) 369: 347: 280: 236: 169: 135: 64: 46: 1065:01:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC) 1052:21:50, 23 May 2012 (UTC) 1032:22:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC) 991:Georgian Orthodox Church 533:The last of your sources 311:WikiProject Christianity 200:WikiProject Architecture 87:Georgia (country) portal 1272:Tiptoethrutheminefield 1246:Tiptoethrutheminefield 1231:Tiptoethrutheminefield 720:sources are needed. -- 502:largely not acceptable 470:22:37 28/02/2010 GMT. 366: 28:This article is rated 1183:) is still available. 365: 334:Christianity articles 223:Architecture articles 1040:not an actual object 499:is a blog, which is 803:Meaning of Armenian 303:Christianity portal 192:Architecture portal 1407:Community Tech bot 1374:Community Tech bot 1341:Community Tech bot 1308:Community Tech bot 391:Sameba needs help! 367: 34:content assessment 955: 938:comment added by 834:comment added by 787:comment added by 388: 387: 384: 383: 380: 379: 253: 252: 249: 248: 148: 147: 144: 143: 113:Georgia (country) 59:Georgia (country) 1486: 1073:Cemetery section 1062: 1049: 954: 932: 846: 799: 448: 446: 336: 335: 332: 329: 326: 305: 300: 299: 289: 282: 281: 276: 273: 262: 255: 225: 224: 221: 218: 215: 194: 189: 188: 178: 171: 170: 165: 157: 150: 124: 123: 120: 117: 114: 89: 84: 83: 82: 73: 66: 65: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 1494: 1493: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1419: 1418: 1403:nomination page 1389: 1370:nomination page 1356: 1337:nomination page 1323: 1304:nomination page 1290: 1210: 1075: 1058: 1045: 987: 985:Current dispute 933: 829: 805: 782: 677: 456: 449: 444: 395:Need help with 393: 333: 330: 327: 324: 323: 301: 294: 274: 268: 222: 219: 216: 213: 212: 190: 183: 163: 121: 118: 115: 112: 111: 85: 80: 78: 32:on Knowledge's 29: 12: 11: 5: 1492: 1490: 1482: 1481: 1476: 1471: 1466: 1461: 1456: 1451: 1446: 1441: 1436: 1431: 1421: 1420: 1399: 1398: 1388: 1385: 1366: 1365: 1355: 1352: 1333: 1332: 1322: 1319: 1300: 1299: 1289: 1286: 1285: 1284: 1283: 1282: 1256: 1209: 1206: 1205: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1188: 1184: 1176: 1170: 1169: 1150:User:Susuman77 1146: 1145: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1074: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1067: 986: 983: 982: 981: 980: 979: 978: 977: 976: 975: 974: 973: 972: 971: 906: 905: 904: 903: 902: 901: 869: 868: 867: 866: 848: 847: 804: 801: 778: 777: 776: 775: 774: 773: 772: 771: 770: 769: 768: 767: 676: 673: 672: 671: 670: 669: 668: 667: 666: 665: 643: 642: 641: 640: 639: 638: 637: 636: 620: 619: 618: 617: 616: 615: 614: 613: 587: 586: 585: 584: 583: 582: 537: 536: 530: 524: 510: 507: 497:The second one 494: 487: 486: 455: 452: 451: 450: 441: 417: 416: 412: 411: 392: 389: 386: 385: 382: 381: 378: 377: 368: 358: 357: 350:Low-importance 346: 340: 339: 337: 320:the discussion 307: 306: 290: 278: 277: 275:Low‑importance 263: 251: 250: 247: 246: 239:Mid-importance 235: 229: 228: 226: 209:the discussion 196: 195: 179: 167: 166: 164:Mid‑importance 158: 146: 145: 142: 141: 134: 128: 127: 125: 108:the discussion 91: 90: 74: 62: 61: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1491: 1480: 1477: 1475: 1472: 1470: 1467: 1465: 1462: 1460: 1457: 1455: 1452: 1450: 1447: 1445: 1442: 1440: 1437: 1435: 1432: 1430: 1427: 1426: 1424: 1417: 1416: 1412: 1408: 1404: 1397: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1386: 1384: 1383: 1379: 1375: 1371: 1364: 1361: 1360: 1359: 1353: 1351: 1350: 1346: 1342: 1338: 1331: 1328: 1327: 1326: 1320: 1318: 1317: 1313: 1309: 1305: 1298: 1295: 1294: 1293: 1287: 1281: 1277: 1273: 1269: 1266: 1263: 1260: 1257: 1255: 1251: 1247: 1242: 1241: 1240: 1236: 1232: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1224: 1220: 1216: 1207: 1201: 1197: 1193: 1189: 1185: 1182: 1177: 1174: 1173: 1172: 1171: 1168: 1164: 1160: 1156: 1151: 1148: 1147: 1144: 1140: 1136: 1131: 1130: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1107: 1103: 1099: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1092: 1088: 1084: 1080: 1072: 1066: 1063: 1061: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1050: 1048: 1041: 1036: 1035: 1034: 1033: 1029: 1025: 1020: 1016: 1014: 1009: 1003: 999: 996: 992: 984: 970: 966: 962: 957: 956: 953: 949: 945: 941: 937: 929: 928: 927: 923: 919: 914: 913: 912: 911: 910: 909: 908: 907: 900: 896: 892: 891:94.43.229.183 887: 886: 885: 881: 877: 873: 872: 871: 870: 865: 861: 857: 852: 851: 850: 849: 845: 841: 837: 836:94.43.229.183 833: 827: 822: 821: 820: 819: 815: 811: 802: 800: 798: 794: 790: 789:94.43.229.183 786: 766: 762: 758: 753: 752: 751: 748: 743: 742: 741: 737: 733: 728: 727: 726: 723: 718: 717: 716: 712: 708: 703: 702: 701: 698: 694: 693: 692: 691: 687: 683: 674: 664: 660: 656: 651: 650: 649: 648: 647: 646: 645: 644: 635: 632: 628: 627: 626: 625: 624: 623: 622: 621: 612: 609: 605: 600: 595: 594: 593: 592: 591: 590: 589: 588: 581: 577: 573: 568: 567: 566: 562: 558: 554: 551: 550: 549: 548: 547: 546: 543: 534: 531: 528: 525: 522: 518: 514: 511: 508: 504: 503: 498: 495: 492: 491:The first one 489: 488: 484: 480: 476: 473: 472: 471: 469: 464: 460: 453: 447: 440: 438: 435: 434: 431: 426: 423: 420: 414: 413: 408: 407: 406: 405: 402: 398: 390: 375: 374: 364: 360: 359: 355: 351: 345: 342: 341: 338: 321: 317: 313: 312: 304: 298: 293: 291: 288: 284: 283: 279: 272: 267: 264: 261: 257: 244: 240: 234: 231: 230: 227: 210: 206: 202: 201: 193: 187: 182: 180: 177: 173: 172: 168: 162: 159: 156: 152: 139: 133: 130: 129: 126: 109: 105: 101: 97: 96: 88: 77: 75: 72: 68: 67: 63: 60: 57: 54: 50: 45: 41: 35: 27: 23: 18: 17: 1400: 1390: 1367: 1357: 1334: 1324: 1301: 1291: 1211: 1154: 1082: 1078: 1076: 1059: 1046: 1039: 1021: 1017: 1008:this article 1004: 1000: 988: 934:— Preceding 830:— Preceding 806: 783:— Preceding 779: 678: 599:WP:SYNTHESIS 538: 516: 513:Armeniapedia 500: 483:WP:SYNTHESIS 462: 457: 436: 427: 424: 421: 418: 394: 371: 349: 325:Christianity 316:Christianity 309: 266:Christianity 238: 214:Architecture 205:Architecture 198: 161:Architecture 93: 40:WikiProjects 1181:this report 940:Esteshamrid 1423:Categories 781:avoided. 675:References 271:Eastern O. 1192:Susuman77 1024:Susuman77 540:claims.-- 517:open wiki 506:question. 479:WP:SOURCE 104:Georgians 1215:Damianmx 1116:Steverci 961:Wikiboer 948:contribs 936:unsigned 918:Wikiboer 876:Wikiboer 856:Wikiboer 832:unsigned 810:Wikiboer 785:unsigned 757:Wikiboer 732:Wikiboer 707:Wikiboer 682:Wikiboer 655:Iberieli 410:largest. 401:Ldingley 1208:Sources 1155:content 604:WP:NPOV 572:Aregakn 557:Aregakn 475:Aregakn 468:Aregakn 352:on the 241:on the 100:Georgia 30:B-class 1159:92slim 1135:92slim 1102:92slim 1087:92slim 995:WP:3RR 521:WP:SPS 36:scale. 1060:Meowy 1047:Meowy 747:Kober 722:Kober 697:Kober 631:Kober 608:Kober 553:Kober 542:Kober 459:Kober 430:Kober 1411:talk 1378:talk 1345:talk 1312:talk 1276:talk 1250:talk 1235:talk 1219:talk 1196:talk 1163:talk 1139:talk 1120:talk 1106:talk 1091:talk 1028:talk 1013:here 965:talk 944:talk 922:talk 895:talk 880:talk 860:talk 840:talk 824:see 814:talk 793:talk 761:talk 736:talk 711:talk 686:talk 659:talk 576:talk 561:talk 527:AGBU 481:and 466:you. 463:some 102:and 1405:. — 1372:. — 1339:. — 1306:. — 828:. 344:Low 233:Mid 132:??? 1425:: 1413:) 1380:) 1347:) 1314:) 1278:) 1270:. 1252:) 1237:) 1221:) 1198:) 1165:) 1141:) 1133:-- 1122:) 1108:) 1093:) 1030:) 967:) 950:) 946:• 924:) 897:) 882:) 862:) 842:) 816:) 795:) 763:) 738:) 713:) 688:) 661:) 578:) 563:) 269:: 1409:( 1376:( 1343:( 1310:( 1274:( 1248:( 1233:( 1217:( 1194:( 1179:( 1161:( 1137:( 1118:( 1104:( 1089:( 1026:( 963:( 942:( 920:( 893:( 878:( 858:( 838:( 812:( 791:( 759:( 734:( 709:( 684:( 657:( 574:( 559:( 376:. 356:. 245:. 140:. 42::

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index