499:'s message at 19:24, August 10 2005) Hmmm...but it is also precisely the influence of British colonisation which produced Chinese-style Western food in Singapore, historically whipped up by Chinese of Hainanese decent in Singapore for their western masters. I believe the "Chinese" in Singapore and the "Chinese" in Hong Kong still belong to one ethnic group: Chinese. The Vietnamese analogy isnt exactly comparable, since I am not asking for this article to be merged together with western food. Rather, I see similar circumstances which created western-influenced Chiense food, and it might be great to have an article to discuss various forms of these dishes before branching into seperate discussions for each. How about retaining this page, and created one called
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customers what cuisine the restaurant serves. It has historical influence from the
British colonization, and hence it is NOT generic Chinese style, it is Hong Kong style. If Singapore and Malaysia developed similar cuisine, there should be enough differences to warrant its own article. For example, Vietnam was a French colony and you can still find many "Almost French" restaurants run by Vietnamese people in the US. This Vietnamese-style French cuisine should not be lumped together with other French cuisine. Likewise, Hong Kong style western cuisine should not be renamed.
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1244:? This page is not even distinguishing chaan and cuisine. Have you checked the reference links? How does sample san francisco hk-style food menu, which is essentially US chinese food get mixed up with Hong Kong's western style cuisine? Are you reading this page at all? The intro paragraphs are misleading enough. Unless the
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Explain, then, the large number of instances in which the above phrase appears in non capital letters, suggesting this is hardly a proper noun. I would like to know how it came to be decided on capitalising this article as thou it is an accepted terminology in widespread usage? Both versions turns up
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Yes, I realize that
Nanyang Hainanese food developed in Southeast Asia and not Hainan, which is why I didn't simply call it Hainanese food. What I meant is that the type of resturant described in the linked article isn't exactly the same as HK food. Confusing the issue also is that Singapore also has
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The problem here, is descriptive titles arent always appriopriate for particular nouns, such as in this case, where people automatically assume it is the proper
English name of the said dish. Hence my question of why this is called "cuisine" as thou it is the only known English reference to it, when
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Chaan = meal. Cuisine = style of dishes. The street terms are ok if you are discussing loosely. By encyclopedia standard it is not the same. Like I mentioned earlier, if anything is too long... is the eastern-cuisine section, which should have its own page instead. Keeping this page around adds
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is only relevant if there is ample evidence that a personal attack is taking place. Is bananaman considered demeaning in this context? I will be pretty harsh on myself then, dont you think? 餐 is not neccesarily cuisine, the later of which connotes quite a different meaning. It means a meal or even
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thinks that there is no such term in
English, and hence should be removed, whereas I find no problem to use a non-English term if italicised. So far there is no valid and reasonable argument justifying why a literal translation is so superior to a transliteration, that the transliterated variant
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I don't agree. Perhaps the
Singapore style can be a separate article. 港式西餐 is a name used widely in Hong Kong, and North America (in US and Canada's Chinese community. I heard that even in Taiwan, it is called the same name) and it is displayed on the restaurant window to advertize to the
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I guess translitering as "western cuisine" rather than "American cuisine" would be more accurate. It is not just
American, but also European and other western (to the west of China) and even Japanese / Korean elements. Would anyone consider a move of the article? -- December 9, 2003, UTC
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I really don't see the distinction between the two sections of this article. This article should be reverted to what it was before someone tried to split it. If there's something wrong with this article, then let's edit it. That alone is not a justification for merge. see also
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page splits into a western styles and eastern styles page, I see absolutely no reason to keep this. At the moment, you are basically in favor of keeping misleading info around. Why would you not merge, when proper attention and info has already been provided elsewhere?
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We need more sources for this article! Especially ones about the history of the subject matter. We might have to search for
Chinese-language sources. Right now we only have one very short article and I don't think it's very informative. I doubt its accuracy, also.
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But we are not comparing "Singaporean
Hainanese" food with "HK" food. Contemporary "Western Food" in Singapore has already evolved beyond merely being Hainanese, particularly with Teochew influences seeping in now. I do hope, for instance, that you are not assuming
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I fail to see how this page is not getting "proper attention". The information contained herein is sufficient to stand on its own as an article. There is no need to merge as "Hong Kong-style
Western cuisine" is a distinct cuisine among the cuisines of Hong Kong.
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I'm not sure what the confusion is here. If anything, it is a case to improve this article, not detroy it. We dont wait for things to become too long to split them into articles. We start articles that are not long enough and encourage people to expand on the
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I removed the reference that Hong Kong style
Western cuisine is served in Cha Chaan Tengs, because it just... isn't. Even if you look at the Cha Chaan Teng wiki entry, the food listed there is not the same as the description of the dishes in this entry.
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I would expect differences to exist, since the various cuisines seems to have developed quite distinctively from each other. But what do you think of an overal page to describe all Western-influenced Chinese food? Of coz..."actual" western food isnt in the
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I don't agree either. From my experience with Singaporean Hainanese food, it's not the same as HK food. Probably better to remove the link and write a seperate article about overseas Hainanese food than merging two traditions to the detriment of both.
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As you've already suggested, they developed quite distinctively from each other. In my opinion we should work on an article for the Hainanese style first, before addressing the necessity of an article to generally discuss the several variants. —
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if it remains in italics and includes a descriptive definition. English is an inclusive language that welcomes new phrases - so long as this is the preferred terminology among locals in Hong Kong. BTW, I enjoyed the meals! Best wishes.
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Are there actually any sources that claim that Hong Kong style Western cuisine catered to the taste of Chinese North Americans? If not, I'm going to delete that reference from the article. Why was it there in the first place?
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because some dishes such as oxtail soup are very rare in the United States (except for tony East Coast hotels where one needs a French-English dictionary to order dinner). I don't see anything particularly wrong with
907:"sai chaan" is a neologism not used anywhere outside wikipedia/mirrors. This page should not have been moved. i see no consensus here to do so. i will move the page back unless there's a good reason not to.--
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And so you are floating right back to another discourse yet again. Since when are you in the position to decide that "French cuisine" is a genre while "HK cuisine" is not? You are a world gourmet chief? A
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lol! I consider myself a bananaman too even thou I am Singaporean. So what if you think it is an insult? I dont give a damn about that, and I am still awaiting your delightfully knowledgeable replies.--
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or "Hong Kong-style Western cuisine" is the soup they serve and the fact that the main course is always on a plate and always eatened with a fork and knife. Most of the food you eat at a
962:(italicised) in the article, and any occurance of it must be removed? There's no academically proven absolute advantage with literal translations over pronunciation approximations. —
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Languages? Cuisine = languages, even thou the former is moulded into local tastes, while the later essentially remains the same? Seriously, could you pick a more relevant analogy?--
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Should this article be renamed as "Chinese-style western cuisine", because this dish is not exactly confined to HK, and does have its rich history in Singapore (and Malaysia) too?--
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a puny number of entries. Surely this means an alternative should be found, or is this dish devoid of an English name (or its existance as a "dictinct cuisine"?)--
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actually refers to a pretty broad variety of restaurants, food served at these restaurants differ greatly. Some restaurants do exhibit many specific elements of
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are classified by genre, although at most time it's stick with geography, considering the geographical limitations for centuries. Articles such as
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No...a figment of the authors' imaginations, if we are to take your comment seriously. Why is there a resistance to accepting the existance of
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dosent neccesarily = cuisine. (unfortunately, some folks seem to think I am debating on the very existance of these dishes instead)--
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I consider calling others "banana" is a quite humiliating insult; that's obviously racial discrimination. Mind your words please. --
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when commenting. As for whether this is 'cuisine' or not, I think it is the best translation there is for 'chaan' to English.
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1219:. The history will be kept. And if need be, we can expand the western cuisine to here. Until then, I am proposing a merge.
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with 24 hits suggests that it isn't really a term that is used; I'm quite happy with the version of the page that leaves out
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Yeah, some dishes they serve are derived from western dishes. But the easiest qualifier is this: do people go to a
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means that details should go into this article. And not everything in this article has been replicated there.
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talk about the food in certain places. Each of these articles does not necessarily focus on one genre. —
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And the same applies to "Hong Kong-style Western cuisine", which is a wikipedian self-construction.--
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This page is not getting the proper attention. I am proposing this page become a redirect page to
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s then, because the ones I've been to are nothing like the restaurants that people go to for
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yes, sai chaan is hardly a proper noun. i don't get your question. i'm not claiming it is. --
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a lot of actual western food (not suprising considering the amount of westerners there). --
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Thank you. Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Would you agree with the earlier version
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It's like the difference between "French language" and "languages in France". —
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Oh dear, I do indeed see a trend here, this discussion very closely parallels
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is merely a description. It's not the name that anybody would call it
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food in general as well, so why use an obviously misleading term?--
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As a Westerner who visited both Hong Kong and Singapore last year
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cannot even be included and must be removed from the article. —
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Well, if we're qualifying "Hong Kong-style Western cuisine" as
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than "sai chaan". is there a better (not worse) alternative? --
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and nobody cares, because it's not used by english speakers.
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This article has been edited back and forth, around the term
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Back to the old problem: Why is it inappropriate to say
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So..the inevitable question comes...is this a cuisine?--
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to a transliterated name for use within the article. —
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is clunky but it conveys the idea. It's better than
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Thank you. Would you agree with the earlier version
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387:67.117.82.1
1313:Categories
761:italicised
441:picture.--
305:...orphans
290:(5,425) •
52:discussion
42:discussion
1131:. :-P
1129:sai chaan
1105:sai chaan
1097:sai chaan
1082:sai chaan
1078:sai chaan
1074:sai chaan
1062:sai chaan
1046:sai chaan
1020:sai chaan
1016:sai chaan
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863:But then
846:sai chaan
812:sai chaan
799:Sai chaan
765:Werdna648
726:sai chaan
719:Sai chaan
612:bananaman
159:Hong Kong
150:Hong Kong
109:Hong Kong
1300:topic.--
1289:Benjwong
1251:Benjwong
1221:Benjwong
1072:to have
850:enochlau
673:enochlau
647:novacatz
530:Cuisine?
335:(390) •
80:redirect
28:deletion
1103:s. And
940:Huaiwei
919:Huaiwei
897:Huaiwei
687:Huaiwei
660:Huaiwei
634:Huaiwei
616:Huaiwei
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536:Huaiwei
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339:(1,322)
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195:history
1147:ntnood
1142::-P —
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817:Durova
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278:(348)
223:(4) •
86:scale.
1302:Jiang
1279:Jiang
1232:Jiang
1170:Jiang
1144:Insta
1113:Insta
1111:s. —
1050:Insta
1000:Insta
990:Many
964:Insta
950:Jiang
932:Jiang
909:Jiang
893:chaan
876:Insta
830:Insta
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737:Insta
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473:Insta
256:(290)
216:(60)
205:purge
200:watch
78:This
1048:. —
1014:for
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854:talk
782:? —
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435:Yuje
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227:(23)
190:edit
48:Keep
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367:Dyl
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