4602:"Trip to the country from which the foreigner is not required, you only need to provide the necessary documents (eg. the Imam), which are taken to the country of the foreigner and there based on the original certificate is issued in an illegal marriage (by a corrupt official). With this document the relationship is legalized in the registry office in the target country, and authentic copy of the marriage certificate is sent to an alien country where it serves as a basis for applying for a visa. One way to authenticate the stay is to establish contact via the Internet with the resident EU offer accommodation in their homes and apartments. This is done inter alia through the website www.hospitalityclub.org. Individuals who invite foreigners this way, do not they carry them and it does not charge any fees (or take a small amount associated with the invitation). And foreigners can move freely within the EU's MS without the need to register their stay ."
2313:. From what I know Alex and Guaka have both published emails from other people and Hospitality Club volunteers on their private websites in some fight for "democracy" and against "censorship" in HC (Guaka ironically even licensing those emails from other people as public domain; and then even referencing his personal blog here as "source" - I mean, come on guys, how ridiculous is it gonna get??). And here they keep adding and adding negative stuff about a great site. I will remove some of that, as it is clearly a personal thing of you two. Posting only negative (but factually verifiable) information on a topic, or specifically focusing on negative things without giving the other side IS having a POV - and we all agree that we'd better stick to
203:
179:
326:
and the growth went to linear (which seems also very strange for such a kind of project). I think this is because the graph was made only from a few data points and then fitted with a curve in a statistically wrong way. It's important to at least include the data points (e.g. as crosses or circles) and preferably drop the fit line at all. Or think of some model of the growth and fit the data with this. If this is the issue, I offer to help with this (and make a nice graph) to whoever posted the original and has access to the data it was made from.
99:
81:
109:
259:
3243:
He eagerly promoted in July 2012 the partnership - resented by most members - with the
Californian hôtel broker Airbed & Breakfast , yielding HC a provision with every booking. The broker's profit scheme contrasts diametrically against HC's and its members' idealism; apart from advertising for their own competitor, as each bed can either be marketed with profit, or be ceded for philanthropic reasons for free.
3113:
4279:
satisfying solution to have to pretend that the service still is working and relevant. I can understand that the
Wayback Machine is not a perfect provement since the site could have worked between the captures, although it is rather unlikely if there is no different capture in between. Otherwise if you just report that the Wayback Machine didn't capture any working login in that time interval, is it really
3957:
50:
21:
3041:"In June 2006 a group of highly involved HC volunteers set up HCvol, an NGO, "where volunteers can organize their work in a democratic and transparent way. " was removed by Amarent with the justification: "and guaka does it again. Why don't you add some critical notes to the CS article, instead always add "facts" to the HC one here?)".
4435:
for website projects, blogs etc. and maybe also non internet related things it will happen that they become abandoned and irrelevant, and it might be difficult to write about this if the rules are not clear. It might be interpretation if mentioning captures of sites like the
Waybackmachine or some uptime-checkers really are
873:
I feel it's inappropriate to use your own blog as a source, don't you think so ? As for the fact that the messages are being monitored for spam (and this feature can be turned off) I think they are very clear about it. Maybe you've just not set it in your preferences setting or read HC's disclaimer ? --
4419:
Clearly it is in the best interest of readers to give some sort of indication in the article that the website appears to no longer be functioning, so it comes down to the best way to do it. A direct statement that it is offline is WP:OR, strictly speaking, but as I see it, as long as we make it clear
4405:
No, we do not need a decision 'now'. This is actually an interesting question. Not because it matters much for this particular article, but because it is liable to become a more significant one generally, as
Knowledge (XXG) content gets older. It may well be that some form of policy change is needed,
4225:
The problem is that
Hospitality Club does not really work anymore. But there hasn't been any official statment, because the creator(s) of the project just abandoned it. So, no one takes care about the portal anymore, since February 2021 the login did not work anymore, and since April 2022 the page is
3807:
But i am participating in the discussion. You claim in editing against consensus - I'm not - or against 'established policy' without casting to explain what that policy may be. You clearly do recommend escalating without any clear reason apart from an obvious failure to AGF towards me. So again, what
3657:
Wowsers. I'm glad you never refereed and football match I played! My edits were not against any established consensus on this article, it Indeed any policy. The addition as it is is obvious original research. Stating "was" in the opening para is enough, the rest simply doesn't need to be there unless
3242:
90 % of members are inactive - a fact that can be ascertained by clicking the profiles. Personally, founder Veit KUEHNE will not disclose his finances not the club's structures (2), or prove the "thousands of volunteers" ' real existence. Volunteers that left, complain of unbearable conditions (3).
3162:
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on
2353:
as long as he is involved in HC. The mails itself were definitely not personal. The publishing was not personal either. I didn't relicense under Public Domain, but my wiki is licensed under
Creative Commons. I also don't care so much about copyright law as for instance Valmi, who seriously threatened
1651:
Well, actually it was also suggested because there was mention of other hospitality exchange sites before (something like "messages containing links to other hosp. ex. sites are supposed to be removed"). This was removed. So maybe someone else can write something about the relationship between HC and
1605:
section? The link you gave in the comment does not exist. I presume there has been some discussion about this before?! Still I think it makes perfect sense to let readers know about Wiki pages of similar organisations which by the way also link to HC and each other. I know HC does not like to promote
4617:
This article is a pretty poor source in very badly written
English. It's only a passing mention for HC, for what is broadly an extraordinary claim that HC is a route for Ismalic terrorists to get visas. There's no indication in the source the HC is actually used this way by terrorists, just that it
3451:
The problem is that no one officially buried the project. And it doesn't seem relevant enough anymore that it gets some media coverage or a obituary. However, there is the fact that it is disfunctional for years, which is a relevant information. The big question is which source we could use to prove
2044:
I removed the "See Also" section that Guaka just added, because we have discussed it in the past already when Guaka (the same one) had suggested that we should remove it. Since there was a consensus then to remove it and that nobody reopened the discussion, I assume that putting it back was a simple
1246:
As of quoting Veit on
Knowledge (XXG), here is a totally unobjective suggestion: since a private email accounts to a private conversation and being forwarded a private email accounts pretty much to overhearing a private conversations, I suggest that you write: "Kühne was overheard as saying during a
1236:
Sweet. After copying my private email to your website you are now diffamating me of
Knowledge (XXG). To set the record straight for those that were not involved, I would have deleted it for sure but I didn't because the page was protected, and I explicitely stated in my email to your web hoster that
872:
Hi, I have the feeling that you are disappointed with HC and are trying to express this personal emotion of yours in the article here. While I do not want to endorse censorship, I don't think the article is the proper place to discuss whether what you've experienced there was censorship or not. Also
325:
I agree it's nice to have a graph there. But the current version is very strange. It seems to imply that before the 03/2005 the growth more or less followed a logistical curve, with expected saturation value somewhere around 35 thousand people. Then in this month something very very strange happened
4434:
Thank you for your useful input. I agree that this will become more significant as
Knowledge (XXG) content gets older. Like I said I noticed many abandoned software projects. These sites often have a "latest release" date in the info block, so you'll notice there if the project is outdated. However
4263:
to track it, and it's easily verifiable by the fact that no one else would be able to reach the page either. We have articles on plenty of defunct websites, and don't need a gold-standard reliable source saying "this website is defunct" to call them such. However, I would avoid more detail than the
3248:
90 % of members inactive since years, even some major cities have but 1 - 10 active hosts left (4). - Bed requests using the official channels may take 6 months or more - all communications are being spam-tested, which purportedly takes time. - Last not least, all improvement schemes of motivated
2487:
Valmi, experience tells that there is quite often a difference between what is written on HC and how it is in reality. Yes, a good start is to read around there and not to take anything to literal. Why don't you quys actually not work on making the club more transparent? I think it would save you a
1717:
It's anarchy at its best: you want a logo, you draw a logo and you use it. Seriously, if you spotted one "unofficial" logo that was used more than the others in camps and seemed generally accepted, I think it would be interesting to add it to the article. You could call it "the logo members created
1523:
discussion page but I doubt anyone checks there often and the relevant people discuss here. I am wondering if a seperate entry for Veit is really appropiate in an encyclopedia. After all he is not that an important person. Isn't it enough to mention his name here? I suggest to delete that entry but
935:
Well, I trust in people organising. If Knowledge (XXG) were managed by Jimbo himself, many problems would have arisen and it wouldn't have grown so big, I think. There are many possible problems I can think of, when there's just one person personally responsible and liable, for that person himself,
599:
I wasn't aware that it was Guakas blog no. I added it because I had been given the url by someone else in the club who had expressed dissatisfaction with the way it was run (If you'd like to contact me through the site I will give you his name, but I'd prefer not to write it on this talk page). You
2434:
HC volunteers who read messages sent to members who didn't uncheck their spamcheck. So most messages, considering it's checked by default. Not clear how many people (let alone who, how many times, or whose messages...) can actually read other people's messages, but for 140000 people this must be a
1963:
If you put a whole new article online that contains mostly false statements, I expect it would be speedily deleted, yes, indeed. Besides, things that are false don't become true just because somebody says it. There might very well be somebody else that says something else. Sources need to be a bit
1219:
For the second one, about which Veit writes "I took out the parts that have me as a "source" - sorry, but I think I ain't gonna be that source.". I was forwarded the email written by Veit stating this was forwarded to me. I put it online on my wiki, and it was removed by Veit and Valmi. I was even
1008:
I really think that we need a discussion about the criticism part. I am a hc member and cs member and was surprised to read that there these rivalries. i checked guakas arguments and saw that indeed quite a few people were unhappy with the way the hospitality club is run. also the censorship thing
819:
that HC claims different than they act and are, this also covers given information by HC about structure, users security and many other topics.. It showed to be necessary to double check any given information by HC (which is most of the time 'fungous') with other sources, which also incl. personal
408:
Oops, I just added the link. But please remove if it at will. I'm currently writing another article, after I got some reactions which were quite shocking for me, like people not being able to send or receive messages at all. And harsh critique about the structure of the organisation of HC. But I'm
3507:
Maybe we can write: "Since ... the Internt Archive has only captured SQL-Errors for the login page, Saashub shows the page offline since 24 April 2022." This is just describing the given facts without any further conclusion and in my opinion this is also relevant. Also it would be more helpful if
1905:
Well, yeah. I actually reverted and started this heading since the deletion included something that clearly wasn't false (quote from HC.org). The other part, well, that's the exciting part, and I know that I can't cite that source. I hope that the next revert doesn't include other tidbits that do
343:
It is fixed now. The graph explains data are taken daily and the early data are only an estimate in the caption. My early objection that it is important to differentiate between data points and fit line was not correct, because the sampling frequency is actually so high that all the points on the
4078:
stipulates that no content may be added without a reliable source providing the information, which at first hand might seem obvious that this is not the case here, and thus it shouldn't be included. On the other hand, I sincerely doubt that there would be any sources indicating the service to be
3719:, now I request you stop interacting with me unless it is mandated/recommended by Knowledge (XXG) policies, as clearly you're not willing to have a civil conversation with me. Also, please stop vandalizing my Talk page. If you can't stop doing this I won't hesitate to ask for AIV/AIN assistance.
2168:
2) When you say "The founder prefers not to speak about bad experiences." would you please be kind enough as to provide a quote from your source? This source is uncheckable as it is and makes no sense to the reader because this is the English version of the Knowledge (XXG) encyclopedia, you see.
2329:
Without a registered username doesn't mean anonymous, sometimes it shows more than a registered username which hides the IP to the large public. Yes, a neutral point of view and a bit objectivity against all networks is what I try to archive since a long long time. Shame when this includes just
2272:
Regarding a statement from Veit. You will never have any things which are clear and put to the point. I find it a shame that the whole thing is kept in some frog and transparency is not possible. HC will always try to have a clean slate. Take as example the the Wikitravel talk pages where wrong
4278:
The fact that the site even is offline for 1 1/2 weeks now makes it a little bit easier to report that, although we have to watch if it stays like this. However, the discussion started when the site still was online, but not usable since the login didn't work. And in this case it is not a very
3364:
I don't know why you changed this to present tense and removed information that the page does not work anymore, without even participating in the discussion. What prove does it need that the thing does not work? You can't log in for years now, and the website even is offline for 2 days (see
439:
I'm a member of HC myself and I know that you can turn of the mail monitoring for your account there if you want. They also make it clear from the very beginning that mail is being scanned. Knowledge (XXG) article is not the right place to discuss your personal opinion on the club anyway.
1425:
doing it, but anyway I give you a choice of either keeping it as it is, or quoting the full unedited content of both emails I wrote to your hoster, as suits you better. I don't mind you copying this messahe as long as you don't make it look like I mean something else than what I really
3856:
I have nothing to retract since I reject the claim that I failed to assume good faith, and maintain my stance that I only intended to advise them on further steps to take (provided their claim was right). I apologize for poor phrasing on my part and undue conclusions gathered from it.
450:
Yes, but there are people who cannot receive nor send messages at all, regardless of mail monitoring. And this is not my personal opinion... And besides, you removed a lot more than just the lines about mail monitoring. For that you need a bit more justification than just mentioning
4064:
I'm saying that regardless of whether you prefer the article to list that the service is defunct, any wording would be better than what it is right now, since now the article implies definitively that the service has ceased to exist, which is unarguably an even worse violation of
4226:
even offline. The service already lost its popularity in the years before, and there is no media coverage anymore. The result is, that there is no undisputed source which we could use for citation. I did add the information that the service is not functional anymore and used the
1073:
Outdated in what sense? Did I miss something? The last thing I read about this was that messages containing website promotion are to be deleted and that a link to CouchSurfing is supposed to be considered website promotion by HC spam checkers. You wrote it yourself, remember?
2971:"Articles may not contain any previously unpublished arguments, concepts, data, ideas, statements, or theories. Moreover, articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of: published arguments, concepts, data, ideas, or statements — that serves to advance a position."
3249:
members meet grave's silence from Dresden Headquarters, and the founder posts but every couple of years, announcing improvements that never materialize - this deafens whatever initiative (5). The young join CouchSurfing; the dead wood stays (6). Homepage Copyright: 2006 !
1987:
Many members of CouchSurfing regard the network as a dating site, a problem that the founder Casey acknowledges: "Based on what I've seen and heard, these people who come into CS and use it exclusively like a dating site are definitely harming the overall CS experience."
2531:, those are your words, Valmi. Second, I'm only very critical about certain aspects of HC, I never held up being an expert. I don't spend too much reading HC.org. Where does HC.org mention 24 people? And what happens if there is a language none of the 24 people reads?
336:
I don't know what exactly happens, but I do know growth can be irregular because of the aproving process of new members. For example, recently some 20000 new members were put on hold (not included in the statistics, nor full members yet), because of server problems.
344:
line are data points. Now it is explained in the caption so everyone can understand the graph. Also the early esimate is now somehow smothen as not to suggest some strange skip. I'm impressed by the work Francis has put in to gather the correct data. Thank you! --
1666:
I think it would be nice to have the HC logo on the page but I don't know who owns the rights of it. Or maybe a low resolution version could be uploaded like it is done for many company logos. Does any one of you know more about the licensing? What do you think?
2330:
negative facts, but I see it more as an critical point of view with needs to be mentioned. Does HC have anything to hide? This whole fight shows that there is some stuff wrong. Let people make their own judgement. Or why do want to take the user for a fool? alex
2892:, "the obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it". Accordingly, if you have a reputable secondary reference, then could you provide the citation. For the avoidance of doubt
2711:
So why don't you first add all the domains with couchsurfing in them to the relevant article (Couchsurfing)?? I have the feeling that you are simply trying to put HC into a bad light by your comment. I think it was very good that HC tried to help out stranded
3508:
User Unbh gives suggestions how to address the issue in a better way instead of just removing edits without participating in discussions. "No encyclopaeidc information" is a thing that can bee seen differently, and also is, like we see in this discussion. -
475:
How do you know your message was removed because it mentioned CouchSurfing ? Maybe it was removed because of something else ? (BTW: could you try sending me a message through HC with "CoachSurfing" mentioned so that we could see if it gets through or not ?)
2020:
The criticism about cs being a dating site it is totally out of scope. This happens on all social sites. And it does happen on HospitalityClub too for instance. See "Dating: some people really mistake the club for a flirting/partner finding platform." at
3477:
In my opinion (considering 3O was requested) the fact that the service is defunct, is absolutely grounds for inclusion when the article is specifically about said service. Having said that, I would not phrase it the way that it is now, avoiding the term
2934:. Maybe we should ask Veit himself? Or would that be original research again? Just to prove how silly this is: maybe we should remove the mention of 180.000 members in the lead of the article. I mean how do we know the number of members other than from
2435:
considerate amount, I'd say at least 100 or so. It's a mystery to me and many others why spam checking isn't being done using more conventional methods for checking spam. Would save hundreds of precious volunteer time and improve the privacy of members.
2003:
Since Casey wrote it and published it on the net, I suppose that it is an appropriate source for a quotation from Casey, no? If you find something on any Internet forum written and published by Veit, then I would assume that you can quote from it.
2179:
2) The quote is definitely checkable, just ask someone to make a translation. You only need a translation of the part that I added in comments to the article. Or is there some WP:ENGLISH article that says that all references should be in English?
3027:
So, who thinks it is relevant for the article about "hospitality club" mentioning the fact that couchsurfing.info, a web site with just the name of an alternative web site, points to hospitalityclub.org and that was registered by the creator of
4018:
I'd like to add that my recommendation was regarding adding a sentence linking to a source reporting the website as currently offline or unreachable. The current wording using 'was' implies that the service/site has stopped existing which is 1)
2157:"The organization thinks it is "best to have one global network" and has tried to cooperate, sometimes successfully, with other networks. It encourages its volunteers to tell all members they meet through other networks about Hospitality Club."
917:
I don't know. Maybe I'm being naive, but I do not like official organisations, so I see nothing wrong with it. Would having a registered company make you feel better ? I find it easier to trust in people, not in companies or organisations.
2049:
The consensus that disappeared when the article changed. I'm not a fan of See also sections, but I think there should be mention of other networks in the article. Since this is somehow not otherwise accepted, I want a See also section.
461:
They make it clear that your mail is being scanned, but did you expect that they would remove the mail if you mention CouchSurfing? Did you expect that some members, without any negative comment, cannot send or receive messages at all?
2466:
24 people. You consider yourself an expert of the "dark sides of HC" but you never cared to read around the website of HC. I'd love to know how much time you spent trying to figure how many people and who exactly monitor messages. :-D
936:
and also for the whole organisation. It's still doable for a group of 1000 people living in one village, but with 100.000 people all over the world it's practically impossible for those people to personally know the people responsible.
1150:
Outdated in what sense? Did I miss something? The last thing I read about this was that messages containing website promotion are to be deleted and that a link to CouchSurfing is supposed to be considered website promotion by HC spam
3764:
that you removed edits without participating in discussions was correct. I only came here because of a 3O request. I don't have personal beef or predispositions towards anyone. If your concern should be with anyone it should be with
4099:
per se as much as it is an indication that this concludes my own views and I realize it's unlikely to end the matter of contention fully, as it doesn't seem like either 'side' is willing to back off of their point. Hope this helps.
1718:
for themselves" or something. Totally in the spirit, and totally legal as far as I know. There will soon be an "official" one coming along with the upcoming website redesign, but I suppose the unofficial logos will survive to it. --
4038:
If I understand you correctly this means we need to add that information (that has been removed) because otherwise there is no verifiable information in the article that gives a clue why this "was" a service (instead of "is")? -
1375:
I think you noticed that your new blog entry still contains lots of illegal content. I hope you'll take a look through the privacy laws that apply in your country and fix everything without anybody having to implicitely threaten
1129:
Listen, why don't we let someone that has not became so involved investigate the claims and rewrite that section of the article? Many editors have contributed to this talk page that could d that. Agreed? Any objective volunteer?
506:
as it is sourced clearly. Explaining that there is no registered organisation is a perfectly valid piece of information to include. Please try to be constructive instead of blanket reverting. I think we're all HC members here. -
4420:
that this is what Knowledge (XXG) contributors have found, rather than a definitive assertion that the website is defunct, WP:IAR would seem preferable. Or a change of policy, which if needed will have to be decided elsewhere.
1736:
I tried it with Glenn's logo and the explanation he gave for it back in 2004. Logos qualify under fair use. I just hope that this was the one logo you had in mind. :-) The "official" HC logo will probably be based on that one.
2412:
This might be somehow unrelated but I was always wondering HOW volunteers check messages for spam. Are they actually reading my mail and then decide whether it is spam or not? Wouldn't that violate privacy? Does anyone know?
2220:
Mit der Sicherheit steht und fällt so ein Club", weiß Veit Kühne. Doch über negative Ereignisse spricht er nicht gern. Lieber verweist er auf das System aus Sicherheitsmaßnahmen, das den Missbrauch des Clubs verhindern soll.
1542:
at this time. To be fully honest, the fact that the article was created by a notable opponent of Kühne not totally without a Knowledge (XXG) agenda is the final argument for me. Hence a listing on AfD would have my support.
3246:
The primary reasons for the disillusionment you find in every forum, every blog are the huge percentage of "dead wood" = inactive members, the snaillike communications, and the leader's inaction and inaccessibility.With :
883:
Of course I am disappointed. But I hope the article just mentions facts. Someone else added the link before I did. When reading HC's disclaimer, is it clear that your message will be removed if you mention CouchSurfing?
4264:
website being down—e.g., its creator's abandonment, logins no longer working—unless those can be attributed to reliable sources. I trust your memory, but those are not verifiable in the same way a site being down is. --
2161:...that you had actually put in yourself. Your edit note did not justify (or indeed say) that you were removing that. Can we know why? Changed your mind about that too? You may consider making a copy of this article in
2063:
I don't know what you mean by consensus disappearing and articles changing. If you changed your mind after asking fellow editors to remove the "see also" section, please be kind enough as to inform us on the talk page.
3886:
Thanks. I didn't have more energy and motivation for it when it's towards someone who's falsely claimed I'm a sockpuppet, called me a precocious editor, involve me being a referee (which has zero relevance here), etc.
329:
If this is not the case and the points on the graph are not a line fit, but actual datapoints, sampled with high resolution, then can somebody please exaplain me what the hell does it mean? What did happen in 03/2005?
2660:
2229:
I got a friend to do a translation of that part. Could you perhaps give more context. Negative aspects is not the same as negative experiences. I welcome better translations. Perhaps a statement from Veit himself? -
1606:
the others on their site and there they can do what they want. But this is Knowledge (XXG) and does not follow HC's policy. Rather should Knowledge (XXG) give the reader the most complete picture possible..., agree?
1620:. That has nothing to do with HC policies, indeed it was suggested by Guaka to remove those links, and Guaka is against those HC policies himself. The links are just made redundant by the existance of a category. --
4458:
I'd personally be content with BDD's suggestion of just mentioning the site is offline and not replacing present tense with past tense as it is currently I believe. This decreases the urgency for verifiability per
2655:
2651:
2647:
1992:
With a reference from CouchSurfing groups. Is that okay, i.e. cited correctly? If so, why? Because Casey wrote it? Just wanna know what parts from CS groups I can quote. I wouldn't want that part to be removed.
3187:
Could someone update the graph of the numbers of members, please? April 2006 is a long time ago. Otherwise I'd suggest to remove it. After all, the exponential growth of HC is mentioned in the article already.
1035:
Can anyone please tell me why criticism should be forbidden on this Hospitality Club article, while it seems perfectly ok on the German version? There are tons of references. How can one possibly ignore this?
4319:
The information is of potential benefit to the majority of readers, as the article revolves solely around Hospitality Club so any readers would reasonably be interested in knowing the status of functionality.
3841:
No. You made the claim that it was against consensus, and the claim that it was against policy. You are the one failing to assume good faith , not Flexman. Either justify so I can discuss properly or retract.
1928:
Specially when you state yourself that your source for information is what people that you know think that they overheard me saying IRL, nobody will blame me for not volunteering to clean up the mess. --Valmi
3491:
issue entirely since we do not imply that the service has ceased existing but rather that it is not available for use anymore, which is easily attested by simply going to the website URL. Hope this helps.
1091:
Hmm, I don't know how you could have read this email of mine without breaking the article of the civil law of the country from which it was issued concerning privacy, damn it, now that's embarassing isn't
3095:
Should we say that HC is currently down as of May 3rd 2007? It's not a normal outage - the website is out of commission until the db has finished the upgrade to MYSQL 5, which could be days. --Azarethroy
249:
2984:
I'd suggest removing the reference to the registration by Veit, and just mention that it points to the HC forum - there's nothing controversial about those facts, and it's very relevant, in my view. --
4387:
In genereal I think that this still is a problem because many projects (especially software projects) just lose relevance or get abandend and get no media coverage or official statemant afterwards.
677:
is even in the URL you pasted here :) But though I exchange emails with one or possibly more people working on hospitalityguide.net I don't think there is a single line of text there written by me.
1165:
Where can I read more about this? Did the rules change? Why didn't anyone let me know? I'd be really happy to read about this somewhere, and my position towards HC would change significantly. Guaka
3628:
to revert edits without discussion and against consensus and established policy. Consider notifying him on his talk page, if that doesn't work, warn, if that still doesn't get the message across,
4733:
3679:
I fail to see how me being a referee or refereeing any football/soccer match you've played is relevant to the discussion at all. Please don't make it personal, I don't make it personal either.
3159:
is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge (XXG) policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
2575:
is the direct successor Hospex, the first Internet-based service, operating out of Poland since 1992." Who's right, the Hospitality Club article or the Hospitality Service article...? -- Helen
1822:
might be considered as website promotion and deleted without notice, depending on the interpretation of the volunteer doing the spam control. Some members are upset by this way of functioning.
1061:
As stated in the editnote if you would care to read that, the main problem is this information is outdated. Rewrite it as "there was once a debate about bla bla" if you think it's notable. --
4095:
If you want to further pursue including the subject matter into the article I'd suggest asking for an RfC so that more contributors can opt in and share their thoughts, and no, this isn't a
1447:
Concerning the other email which you suggested to send to anybody that will ask by email, it is obviously out of the question and you will have to even remove that offer from your website.
4330:. It could be considered generally available knowledge if the date of the claim is included (e.g. "as of May 2, 2022..."), you might want to include an {{as of}} tag as others have said.
4238:, and if yes, will we find another way to get more specific about the current situation of the project, or won't we be able to do any updates unless some media will report about this? -
1695:
Uh, I thought there was. At the winter camp in Riga I saw many people with a HC T-shirt and I presumed that was (somehow) official. Looks like I am wrong so forget about it... Thanks, --
2695:
This seems very relevant to me. It's another domain name linking to Hospitality Club. Another domain name that happens to be the name of another hospitality exchange network. Still,
3024:
When there is controversy about inserting or not a piece of information (in this case, the fact couchsurfing.info goes to hospitalityclub.org) the only possible solution is to vote.
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could b. This doesn't belong any where near the article unless these extensive RS that HC is actually being used in this way. The fact that it is mentioned somewhere is not enough.
2357:
I still think HC is great. And I hope you will add more positive things to the article if you think it is out of balance. Please don't remove any "factually veriable" information.
1534:
I didn't want to start the debate because I lack neutrality on the matter, but I agree with you that Kühne is not notable by Knowledge (XXG) standards. Kühne does not qualify as
4197:
Hmm... Ok, seems I did not get the point of your answer as it was quite complicated and I'm not a native speaker, but it seems to make sense to ask for RfC and more opinions. -
2959:
There is a get out clause to the requirement to have secondary sources in articles about that subject. So the official web site of the Hospitality Club can be used according to
3345:
I guess it is possible to change this into past tense. The project has not been worked on for years, some graphics already vanished in 2019, login did not work since at least
1223:
That was enough confirmation for me. How to get enough confirmation for Knowledge (XXG)? Which source, that I can write for, would be accepted? Indymedia, Wikinews, kuro5hin?
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Ok, this starts getting ridiculus. I do not think this rule applies when there is a general consensus that the source is trustworthy. Otherwise we would have to doublesource
2242:
In this context is 'negative Ereignisse' = 'negative incidents'. Veit refers to negative things which has been happening, not about negative aspects about the system. --alex
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just in case they were not familiar with it. It wasn't ever intended to be a personal attack or an assumption of bad faith to you personally. I merely said that I found it
3272:(6) Kymryt from Philadelphia 4 October 2013: You CAN try to write to the folks at feedback directly. Good luck! You can write a complaint to VEIT - he is the head honcho.
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Security can make or break a club", knows Veit Kühne, but he does not speak willingly about the negative aspects, he only refers to the system which stops abuse of the club
409:
still waiting for a response from the people who asked me and other people to change the "profile summary", which was saying something about the censorship on the forum...
1818:"Messages that are sent to promote other websites or business opportunities" are forbidden as well, as a consequence a message indicating your profile on an alternative
4253:
Since the main reason we prohibit original research is the need for verifiability, I don't think a brief statement about the site being offline would violate that. Use
1337:. Obviously, I was a bit reluctant to quote more from the cease and desist, but if I get permission I'm happy to add some more text, which might be less "diffamating".
4354:
One could go either way in interpreting the guidelines and prior consensus of the community, and I don't think either option is egregious. Just my two cents though.
2305:
It looks like this is simply something personal between (aka alex or 212.120.100.131 - he has been known to do anonymous trolling on many a wiki), Kasper Souren (
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Other Knowledge (XXG) editors are not responsible for classifying what is true and what is not when you add a sentence with many informations of different quality.
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The point anyway, is that the information contained in this email, which by the way was just my opinion (nothing authoritative, you see), is outdated. Reverted. --
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Of course it's not yours as it's Guaka's blog. I'm assuming your good faith, FrancisTyers but are you really not aware of what pages are you using for sources ? --
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I am confused. What are you even talking about? The company was defunct so I changed the status from "is" to "was". Since it was a relatively minor edit, I used
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things had been claimed from Valmid, or the 'intern' eMails which had to be deleted and couldn't be used anymore as source for Wiki. Expand the critics page..
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In recent years In the past five years, the number of active members dropt dramatically (1). HC does not publish actual figures, but the grief goes that : -->
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He's sort of responsible for an organisation of more than 100.000 people, growing to 1 million. I think that in itself is enough to have an article about him.
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It should be mentioned because it is rather odd for an organization of nearly 100.000 members, don't you think so? What about continuity? Peace&love!
3140:, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with
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I would remove the criticism altogether or I would suggest to add it to all the social sites that expose a photo: flickr.com, ebay.com, amazon.com, ...
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I added a graph of user growth, personally I think it gives a nice touch to the article, although anyone who disagrees is welcome to remove it... -
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Also, speaking of assuming bad faith, you baselessly claimed I'm a sockpuppet, while I can assure you this is my first and only account (on WP).
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editor, please let me know which established policy I've broken here before you recommended warnings and dispute resoluton and 'other solutions'
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And for this reason it should be mentioned in the Knowledge (XXG) article if an organisation of nearly 100.000 people isn't registered legally.
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And regarding your recent addition about HC's DNS and who registered the domain, why do you think it deserves to be mentioned here ? Peace ! --
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Ah, and considering your "implicit permission seeking" to quote my "implicitely threatening" "cease and desist", you should have contacted me
1213:
According to the founder, there will never be any "commitee" for taking decisions, as long as he is onboard in the club and is involved in it.
766:. But most of the text there is not written by me... :) And in the first article linked to the most important text isn't written by me either.
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but meanwhile, please give this RfC time to do its job - which is to ask for outside input. It isn't uncommon for an RfC to run for a month.
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I think this is just because of mistaking "holidays" for "vacations". And I don't even know, if this sentence was grammatically right... ;)
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Well, I tried to generate another one, but I've mislaid the data for before 2005, so I only have 2005-2007, which hardly seems worth it. -
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I think its a very borderline case, feel free to AfD it but I'll vote neutral or abstain, the chances are the other AfDers will class him
2203:
A bit literal: "With security such a club stands or falls", knows Veit Kühne. But he doesn't like to speak about negative experiences."
2176:
1) That was not my intention. Sorry. Sometimes people make mistakes. Possibly it is because I was editing another version of the article.
718:
Lol yeah, I must be blind or something - It must be said though that I posted the link before even interacting with Guaka on wikipedia...
3304:
Travel Guide: Help and Information<. This is NO wiki and can neither be altered nor expanded; it consists 90 % of terms of contract.
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Reading it again, I can see the GuakaBlog. You can remove the reference if you like, but the issue of censorship is also covered here:
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Full disclosure: I could be considered involved, since I replied to the request for third opinion (3O) above regarding the same topic.
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2685:, another hospitality exchange network, appeared to be gone, 30th June 2006, Veit Kuehne (organization: Hospitality Club) registered
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There's no need for this at all. It's simply OR. If there aren't sources for it it isn't noteworthy and shouldn't be in the article
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Seems OR to me as well. Also, not relevant. Thirdly, one does not see similar information in articles about other organisations. --
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Hey, I see that you did go ahead with the RfC! I will briefly sum up my thoughts below to inform other editors of my prior points.
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You appear to be arguing for the inclusion of "previously unpublished arguments, concepts, data, ideas, statements, or theories".
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I just finished reading "Freedom of Expression", and after reading it I'm quite sure I need to remove anything from my blog. Guaka
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1208:, although this doesn't cover the full cost of hosting according to the founder, as noone else has insight in financial matters.
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experiences, especially as HC is moving to an 'organization' with one million members, in the interest of hospitality exchange.
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There is no conversation since apart from using your sockpuppet to stir up trouble you refuse to answer any of the questions.
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all I asked is that you tell me which established policy I've broken while recommending that other users warn me or report me
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members that were stranded on the road to contact their hosts/guests during the crash that happened to that website in June.
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I think your comments about Alex show exactly what you are doing here. So maybe I shouldn't have fed this discussion at all.
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3005:"Hospitality Club set up a forum category called "CS Refugees" and a group called "CS Legacy" on its website to help any
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Or I could reiterate my suggestion to let somebody with less POV than you and I write something that they think is fair.
1155:
As Valmi stated, this is no longer the case and as such if it is to be included, it should be done in the past tense. -
1051:
What happened to the part of the article containing information about the deletion of messages containing CouchSurfing?
2196:"Mit der Sicherheit steht und fällt so ein Club", weiß Veit Kühne. Doch über negative Ereignisse spricht er nicht gern.
27:
4234:. Otherwise the initiation was changed from "is" to "was" but without citation. So the question here is: Is it really
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This paragraph appears to be original research, has this information been published previously by a reliable source?
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For me this sounds like we can call the website/project defunct without needing a source if it is obvious anyway. -
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makes sense but otherwise it's not optimal if you are not able to mention that a project is not working/obsolete.
1939:
I guess it is if there is reference. Would some unverifiable statement mean that the whole article can be removed?
1836:
Cf. "Deletion of messages containing CouchSurfing?" and "Removed pending citation" on this very talk page. --Valmi
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I've also added the Policy tag to this RfC as it clearly regards WP policy and its interpretation at this point.
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was set up to point to the CS Legacy group on Hospitality Club, and as of the 1st of October 2006 still does so."
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point that including it at all seems to be original research if one were to follow the 'law' by the letter. The
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Interesting... But Guaka, sometimes I get the impression you got too much time down there in South America :) --
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explains that a secondary source would summarize one or more primary or secondary sources. In this context a
2691:. As of 25th August 2006 this domain is still pointing to which was directed to the "CS Legacy" group on HC. "
2301:
Why do two guys keep adding only negative points to this article - can you take your personal fight elsewhere?
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The latest additions contain nearly no sources and look like original research. Please provide some sources.
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Your feelings and thoughts are no reason for deletion of well referenced and relevant parts of this article.
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2872:. Also, do you see similar research in articles about other organisations ? This seems really weird here. --
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to get things clear. It's not finished yet, since I'm waiting for a reaction from the "founding fathers" on
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1 person who does not help to find a solution in the discussion and shows disagreement via reverts instead.
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can find some of the users who are upset by doing a search for "couchsurfing" in the "profile summary". -
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HC is also mentioned as a means for Islamic terrorists travelling to countries with strict visa policies.
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That is a nice summary of the problem, but what we'd need now is a decision. As far as I see now, we have
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Yes, yes (but no), yes. I've been trying to get things clear about this, and as far as I know, there are
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I've retained the was. THe fact that thes site is not working is not encyclopaeidc information, and is
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So, the consent is to mention that the site is offline. Otherwise your decision can change majorities.
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4004:. Also the answer "Sounds good to me" by Ama does not digresses from the focus of the discussion. -
3264:(5) Kymryt from Philadelphia, 75 years old, Summer 2013: Forum: „Ok, how to make HC a better place“
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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under
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1 voice for mentioning that the site was disfunctional for more than a year and is offline now (me)
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that other users warn or report you. I simply notified them of standard procedure when it comes to
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Hm... I don't see that BDD made a clear statment to the issue with present or past tense, is it?
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Do excuse me and I don't have ill intent or want to assume bad faith, but that does kind of seem
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and thus shouldn't be included. And before anyone assumes, no, the discussion/argument we had at
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I don't see why it should be, maybe under a "Holidaying" category, but holidays is just dates...
4642:
In 2017, HC is mentioned as a means for unwanted foreigners travelling to countries with strict
3419:. And user "Unbh" keeps removing information, that the site is not working anymore for years. -
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Funny, you it's false, but at the same time you're confirming it when speaking to other people.
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So..? You're probably a bunch of things that have nothing to do with the conversation as well.
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http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=312705
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http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=309882
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You can take the list of the 24 "spam checkers" from the website quite literal if you want. --
2341:, saying messages containing anything related to other hospitality exchange websites (such as
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more solid than that if you want to make original research, which obviously you can't. --Valmi
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needs a discussion within the hospitality club. but does it really belong in an encyclopedia?
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A mention is not a POV. Anything that just says 'was mentioned' is not strong enough anyway
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lookup as a reference as well. Or are you saying a WHOIS entry is not a reliable source??? --
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I don't think HC has an official logo yet. There are many examples at the gallery though. -
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as registered by Veit is a false information??? Why would they do that? But ok, apart from
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http://www.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=53763
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http://www.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=29758
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defunct or that it ceased to exist, which might in itself point to the inclusion lacking
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has put back "keep trust in the network at high levels" again without any justification.
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on the web. To participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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Ask Valmi, I'm not sure if there has been a press release. Feel free to try it out ;) -
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is mentioned above and it is in my personal interest to improve hospitality exchange as
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Here's a reason, which might be referred to from this article. It's in German though.
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information given in any wikipedia entry and I am sure this is not what was meant in
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I'm sorry, but your removal of text is totally unjustified! Please restore the text!
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Some users thinks this is not about cooperation but about removing the alternatives.
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2836:, where exactly is the original research here? By the way, the HC article is using
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The first part is pretty clear. But I wonder where I can find a reference for this
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4463:. I'd let the RfC run a bit longer to see if others still want to pitch in too.
3252:(1) English homepage: 707 000 members - other languages: 328 000 as of 1-1-2014
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My time in South America is finished. And I hadn't really found that myself :)
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Concerning this issue, I wasn't aware how long a RfC will run, so i'll wait. -
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Vote for a 'See Also' Sektion! Gives the whole thing more transparency. --alex
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Some part is just copy/paste from HC.org. Please give some more justification.
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because he held only a local office and I doubt that his founding HC makes him
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Feel free to make any changes you see fit, so long as you can source them :) -
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and not particularly for one network, or person/group of people. It has shown
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Well, isn't explicitly stating that you don't want to sue an implicit threat?
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If there's no sources reporting on a service/site being down, it may not be
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Come on guys, you cannot seriously use your own blog page as a source :-) --
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Vague claims made in passing in obscure sources rarely belong in articles.
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Note that this means that a message mentioning an alternative site such as
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The given sources are considered reliable enough by the majority here.
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P.S. Of course I am not serious about removing the number of members...
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http://www.industree.org/guaka/index.php/Censorship_in_Hospitality_Club
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Since somebody deleted the link towards the HC members, here it is: -
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http://www.chip.de/c1_forum/thread.html?bwthreadid=836175&bwpage=1
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Someone I'd trust with my life who met you IRL recently told me that.
4514:"and don't need a gold-standard reliable source saying 'this website
3964:
regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
3822:
Again, you can take the claim of you going against consensus up with
3597:
Collapsing discussion that digresses from the focus of the discussion
1201:
4182:. Yes I said that, but it completely skips on the rest I said haha.
2945:
2847:
2611:
2420:
1760:
1700:
1672:
1652:
other hospitality sites. It definitely belongs in the article. Guaka
398:- I don't think any of us want it on the front page though do we? -
990:
Just found out CouchSurfing group messages are open to the public.
634:
4636:"pretty poor source in very badly written English"? Is it proven
2897:
804:
214:, an attempt to create and link together articles about the major
3632:
might have other solutions that hopefully will not be necessary.
3136:
Knowledge (XXG) article constitutes fair use. In addition to the
4230:
and some Uptime-Portal for citation, but this was considered as
3912:
you're self evidently precocious, and self admittedly a referee.
1942:
That is just one of my sources, as you know very well yourself.
1783:
will be censored. At least some users thinks this is censorship.
1200:
Hosting for the site is partially paid for by money coming from
3219:= a most conspicuous sign of HOW DEAD the Hospitality Club is!
1333:
Oh, and by the way, I just finished an article about this mess
4157:...especially better than wrting "was" without any sources...
4070:. The more thought I'm giving it the more I'm leaning towards
3261:(4) In Greater Nuremberg , only Gartenfreund is still active.
2900:
lookup would be considered a primary, not a secondary source.
1220:
threatened with a law-suit in Brazil. And I removed the email.
636:... I'm not sure if that is one of Guakas sites too, is it? -
43:
15:
3760:
for you to undo edits and edit war in case the claim made by
2733:, as far as I know. Maybe it needs some restructuring though.
1524:
would like to know what you think about it before I do so...
4439:, but a change of policy might be worth discusing elsewhere.
3111:
3108:
Fair use rationale for Image:HospitalityClub-GobuyanLogo.png
3081:
http://mytravelbook.org/hcvolwiki/index.php/History_of_HCvol
2590:
Reviews Written by Veit Kuehne "veit.net" (Dresden, Germany)
1814:
Removed by Valmi with the justification "rv because false":
257:
3011:
2687:
1237:
I didn't want to sue. (Though I would have every right to.)
961:
heading? I think it's kind of superfluous since there is a
545:
That isn't my blog. I don't have anything to do with it. -
291:
Is there a reason this is listed under Category: Holidays?
4221:
Request for comment on how to deal with project inactivity
3808:
policy do you think my edits to this article have broken?
4069:
than simply stating the site to be offline per <x: -->
2774:
Other domain names paragraph - original research concerns
2191:
The founder prefers not to speak about bad experiences. :
126:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
3416:
3051:
HCVol is now redundant no? Has it not been replaced by
2815:
Why would it not be relevant? It seems relevant to me.
2805:
lookup. That doesn't seem very original research to me.
2545:
719:
3769:
since they claimed you did these things, not with me.
2133:
Oh Valmi, it's great to see how conform you are. _alex
4375:
1 voice for mentioning that the site is offline (BDD)
3962:
Knowledge (XXG):Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
2023:
http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/stopspam.php?x=1
3658:
a relatively source can be found for noteworthiness.
3291:"There are also wiki-like Travel Guide sections ..."
4734:
Start-Class Websites articles of Unknown-importance
3167:. If you have any questions please ask them at the
2995:I don't see why this can't be part of the article.
1792:Please provide citations for this information. See
1358:
I don't know. How do you define "implicite threat"?
4129:Not unless you can produce a reliable 3rd party RS
3528:Ah, crap. I have no idea what I was thinking lol.
1540:notorious for his involvement in newsworthy events
248:This article has not yet received a rating on the
160:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1285:Is there an official statement on this matter? -
4000:Majority here has the conclusion that it is not
3624:Sounds good to me. I agree it's unproductive of
1519:I know that this would be supposed to go to the
1753:Nice one! Yes, thats the one I had in mind. --
1616:I put a couple brackets too many; please see
1047:Deletion of messages containing CouchSurfing?
8:
3157:Knowledge (XXG):Fair use rationale guideline
2488:lot of hassle. alex 23:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
4378:1 undecided (if i understand you correctly)
4322:We don't need to list sources to know that
2367:? I do smell some kind of sock puppetry...
502:I've restored the text in the interests of
360:Hospitality club members on Knowledge (XXG)
47:
4338:There's the obvious, glaring 'problem' of
4335:Arguments against inclusion (in my view):
3592:
173:
75:
4576:So, what's now the conclusion of this? -
4087:has nothing to do with my shift in view.
3826:, I shall refrain from further comments.
1189:Removed to talk page pending citation. -
3482:, instead opting for a phrasing such as
2812:there is information about domain names.
3073:
2755:
2365:your only contributions on this article
2363:Why do you know all about NPOV and are
175:
77:
4316:Arguments for inclusion (in my view):
4744:Unknown-importance Computing articles
3121:Image:HospitalityClub-GobuyanLogo.png
2453:to use as a source for this article.
2349:, and one by Veit, saying there will
7:
4729:Unknown-importance Websites articles
4714:Unknown-importance Internet articles
3222:´'Angel.García, Nuremberg / BAVARIA
2699:keeps on removing this information.
2011:By the way: wrong talk page. --Valmi
1583:You can copy and paste this: ~~~~ -
228:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Websites
140:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Internet
120:This article is within the scope of
3960:There is currently a discussion at
2938:? Any independend second source? --
2922:, is not reliable and them listing
2729:All those domains are mentioned in
1860:What are you talking about? --Valmi
1593:Links to other hospitality services
66:It is of interest to the following
3415:You changed from "was" to "is" in
3215:SINCE SEPT: 2007 . S I L E N C E !
2449:...and I don't have any reference
2378:High level of trust in spam check?
2111:This is Knowledge (XXG). Welcome!
1794:Knowledge (XXG):Avoid weasel words
14:
3485:the service has been unavailable.
2351:never be any democratic committee
1618:Talk:Hospitality_Club#See_also.3F
1574:Question: am I an opponent? Guaka
394:I've reverted, here is the link:
3955:
3155:. Using one of the templates at
2944:
2846:
2763:whois info for couchsurfing.info
2610:
2419:
1759:
1699:
1671:
1617:
201:
177:
107:
97:
79:
48:
19:
26:This article was nominated for
4739:Start-Class Computing articles
3341:inactive / not working anymore
3169:Media copyright questions page
760:the new article I'm working on
30:on May 3, 2007. The result of
1:
4724:Start-Class Websites articles
4719:WikiProject Internet articles
4709:Start-Class Internet articles
3282:23:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
3232:23:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
3196:19:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
3178:02:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
3138:boilerplate fair use template
3063:14:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
3046:10:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
2991:02:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
2438:It violates privacy, but you
1641:11:28, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
1628:21:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
1611:16:35, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
1588:16:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
1566:18:18, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
1551:15:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
1529:13:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
1476:10:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
1401:10:04, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
1342:16:52, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
1314:12:14, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
1290:10:42, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
1273:10:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
1247:private conversation that..."
999:22:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
980:19:25, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
970:20:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
943:18:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
923:17:19, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
909:16:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
899:16:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
889:16:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
878:16:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
865:18:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
825:12:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
773:16:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
726:16:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
682:16:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
673:Please read more careful! :)
641:16:46, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
605:16:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
575:16:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
550:16:31, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
529:16:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
512:16:17, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
494:16:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
481:16:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
467:16:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
445:16:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
427:14:43, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
414:14:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
403:09:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
320:16:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
266:This article is supported by
231:Template:WikiProject Websites
143:Template:WikiProject Internet
134:and see a list of open tasks.
4640:? The original sentence was
4520:defunct' to call them such"
3487:or similar. This avoids the
3359:21:38, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
3307:I erased it. - Ángel.García
3303:, and there, very tiny : -->
3165:criteria for speedy deletion
3000:20:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
2585:Reviews of HC and CS by Veit
2153:1) You removed this text...
1228:20:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
1194:21:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
1177:18:49, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
1160:16:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
1138:00:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
1113:00:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
1079:22:34, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
1069:15:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
1056:18:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
963:hospitality service category
385:21:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
4549:Yes, in this case I agree.
3387:as it's pretty common use.
3336:06:42, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
3317:17:45, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
2980:17:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
2950:16:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
2905:14:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
2877:16:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
2852:13:54, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
2820:07:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
2793:10:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
2783:10:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
2741:19:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
2717:18:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
2704:00:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
2337:I only published one email
2146:Info removed and info added
4770:
4690:22:05, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
4676:21:51, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
4662:14:38, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
4628:02:55, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
4612:16:14, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
4342:and lack of verifiability.
4139:18:12, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
4111:19:07, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
4049:13:48, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
4034:17:44, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
4014:17:06, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
3975:12:32, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
3951:04:30, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
3937:20:48, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3922:20:16, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3898:20:08, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3882:20:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3868:19:58, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3851:19:54, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3837:19:48, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3818:19:35, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3802:19:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3780:19:28, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3744:19:24, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3730:19:18, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3712:19:12, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3690:18:59, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3668:18:55, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3643:15:39, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3552:02:57, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
3518:09:35, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
3503:20:49, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
3462:13:52, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
3447:13:35, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
3429:13:24, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
3411:12:08, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
3379:11:32, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
3301:General information Pages'
3149:the image description page
2918:. So, you are saying that
2633:02:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
2446:when you signed up for HC.
2235:16:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
2208:16:54, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
2185:16:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
2055:21:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
1998:16:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
1947:21:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
1911:16:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
1900:12:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
1880:03:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
1848:23:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
1831:00:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
1805:17:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
1765:12:57, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
1745:10:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
1041:16:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
162:project's importance scale
4586:17:10, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
3151:and edit it to include a
2671:11:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
2616:17:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
2597:16:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
2580:15:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
2544:Oh, and in the meanwhile
2150:Two things please Guaka:
1726:15:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
1705:15:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
1687:15:39, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
1677:15:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
1030:) 11:05, 11 January 2006.
366:06:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
265:
247:
196:
159:
92:
74:
3209:15:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
3130:explanation or rationale
2801:It's just a matter of a
2553:19:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
2511:14:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
2475:21:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
2458:18:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
2425:13:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
2408:21:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
2372:21:25, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
2322:19:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
1773:Removed pending citation
986:"Check out the original"
299:08:00, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
208:This article is part of
4559:00:29, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
4545:07:52, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
4531:00:08, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
4503:16:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
4489:12:15, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
4474:12:12, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
4452:18:29, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
4430:12:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
4401:08:00, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
4365:00:45, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
4293:22:07, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
4274:15:50, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
4248:14:10, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
4207:09:49, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
4193:14:57, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
4167:11:23, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
4153:11:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
4023:and 2) not verifiable.
3630:dispute resolution here
2387:in the organization at
1515:Separate entry for Veit
349:21:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
4749:All Computing articles
3116:
2040:See Also strikes again
975:No, I've removed it -
262:
56:This article is rated
4754:All Websites articles
3132:as to why its use in
3115:
2868:Certainly, check out
269:WikiProject Computing
261:
60:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
4324:the Pope is Catholic
3698:Since you're such a
3028:hospitalityclub.org?
2045:étourderie. --Valmi
1017:comment was added by
211:WikiProject Websites
123:WikiProject Internet
3872:Excellent nopology.
3484:Since <date: -->
3237:Recent developments
2936:hospitalityclub.org
2656:Daily traffic trend
2571:article says that "
2569:Hospitality Service
2292:) 09:39, 5 May 2006
2261:) 09:31, 5 May 2006
2094:) 09:05, 5 May 2006
1975:CouchSurfing groups
1820:Hospitality service
380:Is this correct? -
3754:dispute resolution
3258:(3) CS discussion
3255:(2) CS discussion
3153:fair use rationale
3117:
3091:Quality of Service
2309:) and the founder
2163:User:Guaka/Sandbox
1891:Exciting, but not
822:AlexanderSteinhart
758:Well, please read
263:
62:content assessment
3988:
3987:
3570:comment added by
3322:Original research
3012:couchsurfing.info
2989:
2930:here is another
2924:couchsurfing.info
2688:couchsurfing.info
2676:couchsurfing.info
2347:should be deleted
2294:
2280:comment added by
2263:
2249:comment added by
2096:
2082:comment added by
1031:
764:this open message
284:
283:
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234:Websites articles
172:
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146:Internet articles
42:
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3128:but there is no
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2661:more interesting
2648:Daily page views
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2573:Hospitality Club
2529:dark sides of HC
2423:
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2339:written by Valmi
2293:
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4650:WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV
4593:
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4328:the sky is blue
4301:
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4228:Wayback Machine
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2592:at Amazon.com.
2587:
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2317:here, dont we?
2303:
2282:212.120.100.131
2275:
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1187:
1049:
1006:
988:
957:Do we want the
955:
858:User talk:Guaka
850:
847:User talk:Guaka
768:Well, peace...
674:
437:
392:
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339:User:joostjakob
313:
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1335:on my new blog
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3700:WP:PRECOCIOUS
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3347:February 2021
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3299:, your find '
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3274:62.156.40.183
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3203:Francis Tyers
3200:
3199:
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3171:. Thank you.
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3147:Please go to
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3057:Francis Tyers
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4096:
4081:WP:RELEVANCE
3798:deus1999|]]
3797:
3758:unproductive
3757:
3749:
3588:
3566:— Preceding
3545:
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371:New addition
357:
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317:FrancisTyers
314:
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297:FrancisTyers
290:
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220:project page
209:
121:
68:WikiProjects
35:
3750:recommended
2652:Daily reach
2451:hard enough
2389:high levels
2276:—Preceding
2245:—Preceding
2216:Translation
2078:—Preceding
1800:. Thanks -
1521:Veit Kuehne
856:moved from
332:User:hhanke
58:Start-class
4703:Categories
4654:Geysirhead
4604:Geysirhead
4347:WP:NOTABLE
3546:Let's talk
3405:Let's talk
3069:References
3053:Be Welcome
2967:explains:
2751:References
2397:high level
2385:keep trust
2354:to sue me.
2113:User:Valmi
1636:Ok, I see
306:User:Felix
287:Categories
3417:this edit
2928:whois.net
2920:whois.net
2643:Activity?
1983:article:
1979:From the
1185:Unsourced
1151:checkers.
1004:Criticism
953:See also?
363:Dunemaire
190:Computing
4326:or that
3748:I never
3580:contribs
3568:unsigned
3452:that. -
3284:Quelle:
3142:fair use
3126:fair use
2963:. Also
2290:contribs
2278:unsigned
2259:contribs
2247:unsigned
2172:--Valmi
2092:contribs
2080:unsigned
1662:HC logo?
1603:See also
1028:contribs
1015:unsigned
992:This one
959:See also
225:Websites
216:websites
185:Websites
137:Internet
128:Internet
87:Internet
28:deletion
4638:WP:PSCI
4578:Flexman
4537:Flexman
4510:Flexman
4495:Flexman
4461:WP:BLUE
4444:Flexman
4393:Flexman
4304:Flexman
4285:Flexman
4240:Flexman
4199:Flexman
4174:Flexman
4159:Flexman
4145:Flexman
4091:Flexman
4056:Flexman
4041:Flexman
4006:Flexman
3824:Flexman
3767:Flexman
3762:Flexman
3717:WP:NAAC
3620:Flexman
3510:Flexman
3473:Flexman
3454:Flexman
3421:Flexman
3385:WP:Bold
3371:Flexman
3351:Flexman
3297:Sitemap
3191:Splette
2941:Splette
2843:Splette
2714:Amarent
2697:Amarent
2681:"After
2607:Splette
2546:Amarent
2527:First,
2416:Splette
2319:Amarent
2064:--Valmi
2004:--Valmi
1798:WP:CITE
1756:Splette
1697:Splette
1669:Splette
1638:Splette
1608:Splette
1526:Splette
1206:AdSense
805:website
354:Members
4085:WP:ANI
3295:Under
2977:Addhoc
2902:Addhoc
2780:Addhoc
2563:origin
2440:signed
1810:False?
1426:meant.
1423:before
1306:No. --
1202:Google
1038:Spitzl
803:As my
453:bboard
435:bboard
390:Revert
346:hhanke
311:Images
64:scale.
4437:WP:OR
4389:WP:OR
4340:WP:OR
4281:WP:OR
4258:as of
4236:WP:OR
4232:WP:OR
4076:WP:OR
4072:Unbhs
4067:WP:OR
4021:WP:OR
4002:WP:OR
3489:WP:OR
3435:WP:OR
3369:). -
3328:Arved
3183:graph
3043:Guaka
3037:HCvol
2997:Guaka
2965:WP:OR
2961:WP:RS
2898:Whois
2894:WP:RS
2870:WP:RS
2838:WHOIS
2834:Guaka
2817:Guaka
2803:WHOIS
2738:Guaka
2701:Guaka
2630:Guaka
2594:Guaka
2550:Guaka
2505:Valmi
2469:Valmi
2455:Guaka
2405:Guaka
2401:trust
2369:Guaka
2307:Guaka
2205:Guaka
2182:Guaka
2052:Guaka
1995:Guaka
1944:Guaka
1908:Guaka
1877:Guaka
1845:Guaka
1828:Guaka
1739:Valmi
1720:Valmi
1622:Valmi
1599:Valmi
1545:Valmi
1470:Valmi
1395:Valmi
1339:Guaka
1308:Valmi
1267:Valmi
1225:Guaka
1132:Valmi
1107:Valmi
1076:Guaka
1063:Valmi
1053:Guaka
996:Guaka
967:Guaka
965:now.
940:Guaka
906:Guaka
886:Guaka
862:Guaka
845:From
815:than
809:whole
770:Guaka
679:Guaka
675:guaka
491:Guaka
464:Guaka
411:Guaka
4686:talk
4672:talk
4668:Unbh
4658:talk
4648:per
4634:Unbh
4624:talk
4620:Unbh
4608:talk
4600:Read
4597:Unbh
4582:talk
4555:talk
4551:2ple
4541:talk
4523:★Ama
4499:talk
4481:★Ama
4466:★Ama
4448:talk
4426:talk
4397:talk
4357:★Ama
4289:talk
4283:? -
4270:talk
4244:talk
4203:talk
4185:★Ama
4163:talk
4149:talk
4135:talk
4131:Unbh
4103:★Ama
4060:Unbh
4058:and
4045:talk
4026:★Ama
4010:talk
3967:★Ama
3947:talk
3943:Unbh
3929:★Ama
3918:talk
3914:Unbh
3890:★Ama
3878:talk
3874:Unbh
3860:★Ama
3847:talk
3843:Unbh
3829:★Ama
3814:talk
3810:Unbh
3787:★Ama
3772:★Ama
3740:talk
3736:Unbh
3722:★Ama
3708:talk
3704:Unbh
3682:★Ama
3675:Unbh
3664:talk
3660:Unbh
3635:★Ama
3626:Unbh
3576:talk
3572:Unbh
3537:MrMe
3533:MrMe
3514:talk
3495:★Ama
3471:and
3469:Unbh
3458:talk
3443:talk
3439:Unbh
3425:talk
3396:MrMe
3392:MrMe
3375:talk
3367:here
3355:talk
3349:. -
3332:talk
3313:talk
3278:talk
3228:talk
3134:this
3055:? -
2932:link
2916:WP:V
2890:WP:V
2874:Lysy
2790:Lysy
2567:The
2444:away
2432:some
2315:NPOV
2311:Veit
2286:talk
2255:talk
2088:talk
1895:. -
1796:and
1785:and
1561:. -
1376:you.
1024:talk
920:Lysy
896:Lysy
875:Lysy
817:once
813:more
572:Lysy
526:Lysy
504:npov
478:Lysy
455:and
442:Lysy
36:keep
34:was
4652:.--
4266:BDD
3535:And
3480:was
3394:And
3247:-->
2912:all
2808:In
2399:of
2029:or
2025:or
1597:Hi
1204:'s
1092:it?
244:???
156:???
4705::
4688:)
4674:)
4660:)
4626:)
4610:)
4584:)
4557:)
4543:)
4517:is
4501:)
4450:)
4428:)
4399:)
4291:)
4272:)
4261:}}
4255:{{
4246:)
4205:)
4165:)
4151:)
4137:)
4047:)
4012:)
3949:)
3920:)
3880:)
3853:–
3849:)
3816:)
3742:)
3710:)
3666:)
3582:)
3578:•
3516:)
3460:)
3445:)
3427:)
3377:)
3357:)
3334:)
3315:)
3280:)
3230:)
3193::)
3188:--
3144:.
2663:-
2654:,
2650:,
2467:--
2413:--
2403:.
2391:."
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2288:•
2257:•
2165:.
2090:•
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188::
4684:(
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4646:.
4632:@
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4089:@
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3467:@
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3441:(
3437:.
3423:(
3373:(
3353:(
3330:(
3311:(
3276:(
3226:(
3206:·
3060:·
2668:·
2508:✒
2472:✒
2284:(
2253:(
2086:(
1742:✒
1723:✒
1625:✒
1548:✒
1473:✒
1398:✒
1311:✒
1270:✒
1135:✒
1110:✒
1066:✒
1022:(
1011:—
459:.
272:.
252:.
222:.
164:.
70::
38:.
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