1083:, is for sentences that are not verified by the sources cited. You just said that the second source that I added when I removed the tag verifies the sentence. That being the case, you have no cause whatsoever to complain about that tag. I doubt that would even be considered a revert, it is the same thing as providing a citation and removing a citation needed tag. Next, you dispute that the first source is valid. Why does that give you the right to remove it when another editor has said that it is perfectly valid. For some reason I doubt you were coming here to write something as I both reverted your removal and made a comment here about that in the five minuted after your removal.
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and not clear enough. The other source has a presumably now
Israeli lawyer considering it "illegal under international law". I thought her thoughts on it might be acceptable since she is on the other side of the dispute so admitting that is nice and she is a lawyer. The other name for the place is used in that source. Both have there problems but the second is not bad even though it could be better.
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vandalism. I dont take his views on this topic too seriously. Yours either for that matter. "Dehumanize" has become a term used by certain people attempting to portray settlers living in illegal settlements on occupied territory as something other than that but it remains as meaningless today as it was when it was first argued that calling settlers "settlers" is "dehumanizing".
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manipulating it in some weird defense of the inappropriate comments? What about the other points listed? This is the kind of disruption that shows that the IP should not have made the comments. The IP needs to know that such disruption will not be tolerated and the comments might be best removed. He is welcome to amend them into a version that is less inflammatory.
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What? What are you talking about BLP applies to the residents of
Halamish? As far as what connects them, cmon be serious. It says "The public water system passes through the Israeli settlement of Hamich and settlers sometimes break the line, leading to water shortages for the village." Later it says:
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the residents of these illegal settlements are called settlers, they are armed to teeth and violent,,,, they are not ordinary people.... they live on a stolen and occupied land that is not theirs... and they are considered illegal under the international law... and the international community as well
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Mbz1, that is an unacceptable edit. The prior name for
Halamis was "Neveh Tzuf". The second source, discussing Neveh Tzuf, says "Although the settlements are illegal under international law". The first source says "he was transported in a lorry to the illegal settlement of Halamish, along with dozens
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use it in contexts unrelated to that specific issue. It doesn't matter if they're armed and are settling in disputed areas, even regardless of how lopsided that dispute may be. If we're talking about them in issues related to settling, then fine, "settlers" is specifically appropriate. If we're just
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OR could apply here since it is pretty standard to not add in sources that don't discuss the actual topic. Even if that can be forgiven (which it could be in this instance), the sourcing and wording is still questioned and that needs to be addressed more than anything else. Find some better sourcing
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If you continue removing sourced content I will be asking that you be topic-banned. A reliable source calling the settlement illegal is all the proof
Knowledge needs. Stop being disruptive. I did not fail with the RFC, I think Sandstein was wrong, but no matter. I will start one for each settlement.
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Since you have failed with your RfC, you try another front. FWIW, BLP does not exist for localities, but maybe it should. Calling a place illegal should be sourced to a source that specifically mentions a ruling in a court of law and not just some mention in passing per someone's personal reasoning.
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The term is used. Did you have match case on or something like that? The first one does not say anything about it being illegal under intl law but either the author paraphrasing a member of the
Palestinian security forces or editorializing does say "illegal settlement of Halamish". Too many redflags
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Edit summaries with explanation points, heated rhetoric, and caps is not helping anything. Edit warring is bad. Per the recent closure of the RfC and in accordance with NPOV, the IPs edits need to be reverted. They can be discussed more but this article started out one way and has had words inserted
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Hass is not a RS. Haaretz is. When Hass writes an oped (as opposed to reporting) - it is merely her opinion and should be attributed at the very least. A partisan think tank is very much UNDUE - and in this case is pure OR - there is no policy based arguement through which we could turn Hamich into
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I was referring to assertions of "theft" and "death" above. As for the ARIJ document - if what you are saying is true, it shows a rather serious flaw in the document itself (as this is not a reasonable spelling or transliteration from Hebrew nor Arabic). It might be likely that ARIJ is referring to
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ARIJ is reliable for what ARIJ says (with attribution) - you don't need a RfC for attributed use (just about any source is reliable for what that source says) - it's simply UNDUE. OCHAOPT possibly supports a spring (in the text, not the map) - it does not support "and the rest from Nabi Salih". And
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Nableezy, please expand on that logic, because I don't seem to agree at all. If you can prove that it is
Palestinian land, then they are squaters, not settlers. But if it is state land, a term used in the Jordanian land laws still in effect, then they are actually just regular owners and residents.
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Agreed. This is also being discussed above. I was not trying to dismiss the issue just that the comments were so inappropriate that it needed mention. I have already mentioned it on their talk page and the conversation can stay there. Should the settler issue be discussed here or above? I think the
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As
Ynhockey points out: "Any attempt to dehumanize living people on Knowledge is not appropriate". Are all of them violent? And what bis ordinary? That can be taken multiple ways. I did not point to BLP since it is not a violation to the word. Why are you arguing about this anyways? And why are you
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But it being a perfectly valid source is disputed by another editor so you should not be removing templates then hitting the revert button again without seeking the talk page. I was typing up something quick here when you made that revert so maybe in the future you should slow down with it since it
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You decided to remove a perfectly valid source. And even after you say that the other source verifies the sentence you are whining about a failed verification tag? You just said that the other source verifies the sentence, why on earth should I leave the tag when I add another source? And I get it,
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think there is something that matters about them other than their being settlers (i.e., as evidenced by the 213.6.x.x IP folks lately), then that's a pretty clear sign you might be unable to even recognize how hopelessly biased you are at this time. Those users are regularly blocked for failing to
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Ynhockey has a clear POV and has repeatedly attempted to portray illegal settlements in occupied territory as anything but that, even removing easily sourced lines as "unsourced" from articles without a single source. He has also misuses the rollback function to revert edits that are decidedly not
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Not addressing the failed verification tag by keeping in the questionable source then reverting after that is surely not collaborative editing and I believe most would consider it the start of an edit war. You not understanding that may be the problem but hopefully you will get it sooner or later.
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There is quite a difference there. Describing a person as a terrorist is not as clear cut as describing an act as a terrorist act. Or describing murder as illegal. Or saying a settlement is illegal under international law. Every settlement in occupied territory is illegal under international law,
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Besides being unreliable and UNDUE, with the text being SYNTH from a number of sources - Hamich is indeed not
Halamish (and if it is - well that just points to the non-reliable nature of ARIJ). Furthermore, the OCHAOPT map (page 16) says nothing that supports the content. There are problems with
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Better - it does at least contain 34.35% (in an rather long data table). Interestingly, Peace Now is only claiming 261 dunams - as opposed to 604 Dunams by ARIJ (all be it to "Hamich" which may be something else). The data table supports "private land", it does not support "privately owned
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Unless there is an identifiable person being called a thief then no, BLP has no relevance here. As far as the claim it is OR, reading a source does not require us to suspend common sense. We both know that it is referring to what we call
Halamish here. No hand-waving, just common sense.
1945:
Well, if you insist, I will start another RfC, about its suitability as RS (with attribution), alas, I will ask about the suitability as RS about a heap of proāsettlers web sites at the same time. Also, the OCHAOPT repros clearly mention
Halamish taking over the springs from
2347:. I checked the source. I was unable to find Halamish. I was unable to find 34.35%. In fact - I was unable to find anything related to the text inserted in the source you linked to. Please provide a quote supporting the content you inserted as well as a clear page number.
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Then we should use one of those sources. The OCHA source didnt explicitly support it, better to have something that is explicit so that er the more pedantic objections arent brought up as though there is reason to wholly wipe out that this colony is built on stolen land.
1893:- particularly when in the other ref from ARIJ you've got "Hallamish" (at least a plausible spelling mistake). The map from OCHAOPT (page 16) does not support in any way shape or form the text "and the rest from Nabi Salih". The ensemble - is a blatant misrepresentation.
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has been a problem made aware to you by numerous editors. If you wish to deflect that is all fine and good but maybe we need to see if other editors want to weigh in on the validity of that citation since it is clear neither of us is convinced of the other's argument.
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I disagree obviously so removing the failed verification template then reverting is edit warring. Again. And to make it worse, it was pointless and trivial. You consider it being a narrative from the author and it appears to me to be a paraphrase of the one guy's
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Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not
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Hmmm...do you do deny that several villagers in Nabi Saleh have been killed during the protests there? As for "theft": google Halamish and theft and you will easily find many sources for that. If you don't want to be called a thief: then don't steal,
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Hamish is indeed another name for Halamish...Halamish is between Deir Nidham and Nabi Saleh; look at the ARIJ map, or google map, or any other map. If you want to find ARIJ unreliable; then start another RfC; the last one found ARIJ to be a RS,
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on our part to determine this in a conclusive fashion without a source specifying that Hamich is Halamish. If the connection is based on hand waving and claiming other editors "know full well" what ARIJ meant to say (but didn't) - well - that's
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When Hass writes an opinion piece - which this one is marked as - it is not appropriate for unattributed use. As for ARIJ - even if we were to accept that Hamich=Halamish that would be a sign of incompetence of the source. Regardless this is
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1527:"Attacking living people" is an unambiguous reference to BLP. No identifiable person is named so there is no issue with BLP. But they are not "ordinary people" they are settlers living in illegal settlements on occupied land.
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2. Private Palestinian Land ā registered land recognized by the State of Israel as the private property of Palestinian residents and cultivated agricultural land that was not declared "State Land" and was not purchased by
2238:- and you clearly do not have consensus (or any policy based rarionale) to include this. Absent a source specifying Hamich is a variant pf Halamish (hint - it is not, in any way shape or form) - you can not insert this.
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Not so obvious - as most NEWSORGs keep on using Halamish - e.g. contrast a google news search for "Halamish stabbing" vs. ""Neve Tzuf" stabbing" or ""Neve Tsuf" stabbing" (z beats out the s) - it isn't even close. So
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My concern is about style. Putting the word "settlers" into every sentence related to Halamish population doesn't make the article more readable or informative. Also, there is no consensus regarding it's neutrality.
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you want to be able to remove whatever you wish, revert any edit that you wish. But if I revert you then I am edit-warring. I get it, I just refuse to recognize such an inane argument as having any basis.
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The failed verification tag was removed because another source, which you just admitted was fine, was inserted, so the sentence does not fail verification. Reverting your removal is hardly edit-warring.
1099:(after ec) list my 2 reverts. If you want to claim that providing a source that you admit verifies the sentence and removing the failed verification template is a revert, all I can say is good luck.
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Simply put, that is nonsense. If a reliable source says X we can say X, the reliable source is not required to prove X. You are attempting to force a standard here that has no basis in policy.
2129:"Wastewater from the Hamich settlement is discharged on the villageās agricultural lands". You know full well it is referring to Halamish. Saying otherwise is just dishonest, and you know it.
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Of course it is, she is an expert on the topic. And if you feel that way you could have, I dont know, attributed the use. There is no OR here, saying that is just silly, but Im fine going to
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Found it reliable? Link please - I don't recall such a consensus. Regardless - ARIJ itself says "Hamich" - saying Hamich is Halamish (not even a reasonable spelling or phonetic mistake) - is
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Does not support reliability - merely use as an external link. Regardless - ARIJ itself - with "Hamich" - does not support this. The OCHAOPT doesn't support the text it is reffing either.
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The concern is not over "settler" but his comments. This has gone on too long. I will make a mention at his talk page and I ask that he is notified of the possible sanctions. End of story.
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The sources need to show how each one is illegal, not boilerplate random mention, 'like all settlements, X is ...' I have issues about Sandstein as well, but he also said get consensus. --
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of detainees." You are quite plainly wrong that the word "illegal" is not in the sources. Revert your edit. If you I dont I will, but I would rather not have my opinion of you degraded.
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Israel officially changed the name of the community from Halamish (×Ö·×ÖøÖ¼×Ö“×ש×) to Neve Tsuf (× ××× ×¦××£ ) in October 1998. The wiki entry and information should be changed accordingly.
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they are not ordinary people, they live in illegal settlements built on a stolen and occupied land, therefore they are settlers. then they are not civilians, they r armed to teeth.--
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Halamish (and made a rather serious mistake throughout their document, while in the other document - on Al-Itihad - they do use a reasonable name - "Hallamish") - however this is
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1136:(Intended)I did a search for the word "illegal" and could not find it in Guardian ref. In other ref I could not find neither the word "illegal" nor the word "Halamish".--
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It looks like you are removing valid sources. "Illegal settlement of Halamish" is not taken from Suleiman, that is written in the narrative voice by Goldenberg.
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Appears to call this settlement Hamich in the village profile of Deir Nidham. Maybe that is why Icewhiz thought the source does not contain this material.
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as the nearby villages. There must be in a zillion RS that the old spring of Nabi Salih is today used by Israeli settlers of Halamish: take this piece by
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and word it better. If it is contentious consider if there is a reason instead of ignoring it and continuing to make contentious edits on multiple pages.
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1502:"they are armed to teeth and violent,,,, they are not ordinary people...." is not appropriate. And I did not site BLP so please do not sling mud around.
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This is a separate issue. Sources saying these are illegal under international law have been provided, you have no cause to remove that information.
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There is nothing in those comments that can be construed as a BLP violation and even pretending that it is shows you do not understand that policy.
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writing in Haaretz is a reliable source. ARIJ is clearly referring to Halamish throughout that document. Please stop making such disruptive edits.
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1744:(outdent) Obvious concur with ElComandanteChe...blatant POV to continually harp on them being settlers in every mention of them. They are
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Concur with Cptnono. Any attempt to dehumanize living people on Knowledge is not appropriate, whether it's done in mainspace or on talk. ā
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That source backs up that this settlement is illegal. Why did you remove it? You are incorrect on saying that line comes from Suleiman.
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halamish is considered as illegal under the international law because it is built by the occupiers on a stolen and confiscated land.
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You really can't get anymore NPOV than "people". And saying that Israel disputes the illegality shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings.
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seems to favor Halamish. In any event both names need to be mentioned in the lede, and we need a redirect from one to the other.
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And I made 1 revert while you made two. Sorry to try to squeeze in the last word but there is clearly no double standard here.
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UNDUE?????...when the theft of this spring by Halamish settlers has caused the death of several people in Nabi Sahleh?
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Like I said, this was a trivial issue and you have decided to hit the revert button. That is surely not appropriate.
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If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!
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conclude that we are to use only "settler"-centric terminology. It did not even conclude that we should in general
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There is no standard there and even Sandstein says in his close that there is nothing binding in what he wrote.
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Its attributed to ARIJ, you want to challenge it then go ahead. I agree on the OCHA map, Ill remove that.
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talking about them as people living somewhere doing...whatever people do....then there's definitely no
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There are a few places that have been called illegal by courts, you should bring sources from them. --
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It looks like someone already fixed it but if you feel like edit warring it would serve some purpose.
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Well, I guess I misspelled, so I did add it back, but I changed the language a bit. After all, if
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You need to stop edit warring and soapboxing. They are "people". That is completely NPOV.
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and misrepresenting ARIJ - "Hamich"? How are we getting from "Hamich" to Halamish?
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and letting them judge that. Reason to include it? I dont know, NPOV demands it?
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its legal name is colony/settlement, not a village. its residents are settlers.--
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first step is pointing out each particular use and if a synonym would be better.
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Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran
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this is not a matter of "some" sources saying this. This well documented fact.
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It looks like you are edit warring needlessly. "Like other settlements in the
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Sorry, you are right, I put in the wrong link. Will correct in a sec.
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And sorry, Nableezy, I completely disagree with that removal. Search
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you still haven't answered how we got from "Hamich" to Halamish.
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the source notes only the victim Jewish nationality: "
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In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Arenāt Legally Blonde
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Timeline of the IsraeliāPalestinian conflict in 2005
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2609:Mid-importance Palestine-related articles
1462:This is already being discussed up above.
782:Knowledge requested photographs in Israel
2435:4. Jewish Land ā land purchased by Jews.
109:With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:
384:
263:
2604:Start-Class Palestine-related articles
1679:official name ... was rejected by the
331:, where you can add your name to the
7:
427:This article is within the scope of
309:This article is within the scope of
27:Warning: active arbitration remedies
2619:Start-Class Israel-related articles
2034:for "Halamish" and you will find
1748:, who have many identities. If you
611:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel
252:It is of interest to the following
52:, provided they are not disruptive)
752:Knowledge requested maps in Israel
536:Unassessed Israel-related articles
327:on Knowledge. Join us by visiting
14:
2013:to connect that to this article.
1914:Talk:Jabel Mukaber#External links
1651:at the entrance to the settlement
731:Israel articles needing attention
714:Israel articles needing infoboxes
2565:
2519:
557:Cleanup listing for this project
513:
414:
404:
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335:where you can contribute to the
296:
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265:
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19:
747:Module:Location map/data/Israel
365:This article has been rated as
345:Knowledge:WikiProject Palestine
2614:WikiProject Palestine articles
1820:22:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
1797:21:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
1778:21:20, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
1763:02:51, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
1724:00:02, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
694:Add geographic coordinates to
608:Participate in discussions at
348:Template:WikiProject Palestine
1:
2449:22:46, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
2389:22:27, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
2373:22:11, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
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2197:22:24, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
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2140:22:10, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
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2003:21:39, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1983:21:37, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1968:21:28, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1941:21:16, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1926:20:58, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1903:20:45, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1885:20:28, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1870:18:47, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1845:16:32, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
1615:22:55, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1600:22:49, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1585:22:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1570:22:01, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1554:21:56, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1538:21:52, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1521:21:51, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1512:21:47, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1497:21:33, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1482:21:31, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
1454:21:28, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
441:and see a list of open tasks.
75:contentious topics procedures
944:Israeli-occupied territories
779:Add pictures to articles in
447:Knowledge:WikiProject Israel
2629:WikiProject Israel articles
2542:to reactivate your request.
2530:has been answered. Set the
1423:02:41, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
1388:02:25, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
1371:23:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
1356:22:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
1341:21:54, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
666:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu
450:Template:WikiProject Israel
2645:
749:. Add maps to articles in
630:Diamond industry in Israel
469:project's importance scale
371:project's importance scale
351:Palestine-related articles
44:You must be logged-in and
2589:18:53, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
2557:07:08, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
1307:06:44, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
1291:06:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
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1261:13:57, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
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1094:00:57, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
1069:00:54, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
1055:00:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
1039:00:39, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
1023:00:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
1007:00:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
991:00:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
975:00:27, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
960:00:24, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
937:00:21, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
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907:00:12, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
891:22:34, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
475:
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77:before editing this page.
2506:12:00, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
2485:11:46, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
689:Geographical coordinates
134:normal editorial process
71:normal editorial process
2379:Palestinian property".
658:Public Defence (Israel)
559:is available. See also
453:Israel-related articles
140:Arbitration enforcement
2393:Earlier in the report:
1671:murder at the entrance
1647:after the murder of a
1409:(other than editorial
872:Settlers and other fun
242:This article is rated
130:standards of behaviour
67:standards of behaviour
2032:How dispassion happen
1708:of their land by the
1693:of their land by the
1623:needless qualifier: "
480:Project Israel To Do:
312:WikiProject Palestine
36:ArabāIsraeli conflict
1852:other bits as well.
1392:Concur. The RFC did
565:the tool's wiki page
561:the list by category
126:purpose of Knowledge
120:After being warned,
63:purpose of Knowledge
50:making edit requests
1954:(presently part of
1627:25 settler families
1078:Failed verification
829:Translate to Hebrew
84:Further information
745:See discussion at
430:WikiProject Israel
325:State of Palestine
321:Palestinian people
248:content assessment
122:contentious topics
100:
98:make edit requests
46:extended-confirmed
32:contentious topics
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674:Pre-Modern Aliyah
646:Sephardic Haredim
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