3387:" was the unofficial anthem of China for several years). "Red China" only becomes derogatory by implication when it's used with an intent to imply that the People's Republic of China is not the legitimate government of China. By contrast, the word Hamastan just by its form alone (Persian suffix, non-Arabic morphological pattern, strange inexplicable haplology) strongly indicates that it's outlandishly un-Arabic. I don't know if it was originally intended to be derogatory, but the Israeli coiner of the word was obviously a whole lot more concerned with coining a rough-and-ready catchphrase for use in political analysis than he was with respecting Arab cultural and linguistic traditions -- and it shows...
2466:
provided by
Jaakobou above make it pretty clear that sometimes it is not pejorative. Yes, that's original research: based only on that we can't say in the article "sometimes it's not pejorative", but we can nevertheless consider that information while writing the article. Most words do not have sources stating that the word is not pejorative: it wouldn't be reasonable for us to require that. I suggest using prose attribution: that is, say something like "Source X states that the term is pejorative" (whatever statement can be reasonably based on the source). We don't present opinions as fact just because no source explicitly states the opposite opinion.
1228:"That pejorative use of the suffix -stan to describe a place largely populated by Muslims — in 1990, Islamistan — was applied by Time magazine to the city of London in 2001: “So many volunteers to the bin Laden cause use the British capital as a base between visits to Afghan camps that French antiterrorist officials now call the city ‘Londonistan.’ ” In 2006, The Weekly Standard wondered who, if our efforts in Iraq did not succeed, “would take the trouble to ensure that some portions of Iraqi territory do not become little al Qaeda-stans?” U.S. News & World Report discovered Hamastan at about the same time The New Yorker coined Hezbollistan."
3130:. Sources which are not hostile to the Palestinians have no qualms about using the term as a short descriptive for Hamas' control. The control itself, many believe is and, I feel that, finding the term offensive is a subjective matter rather than source based. I wouldn't mind a secondary review on sources but the ones I've picked up cannot (in my opinion at least) be viewed as an attempt to ridicule Hamas or Gaza. Anyways, another one-two uninvolved people sharing your perspective would be a quick end to this RfC :)
1215:"At the turn of the new millennium, attention was called to newly independent states on the fringe of the former Soviet Union — Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan — which the BBC identified as “collectively known as the Central Asian ‘stans.’ ” They were derogated by Stephen Kotkin in The New Republic in 2002 as “a dreadful checkerboard of parasitic states and statelets, government-led extortion rackets and gangs in power, mass refugee camps and shadow economies. Welcome to Trashcanistan.”
2838:
legitimate descriptor. I don't agree that the
Haaretz piece uses the term in a neutral way; the thrust of the piece is that it is unfortunate and wrong that Gaza should be split at all, and both "Hamastan" and "Fatahstan" have negative connotations there. The Guardian piece uses quotation marks around the name to acknowledge that it is a politically charged, partisan term. And even al-Zahar's "positive" use of the word appears to be at least tongue in cheek. I think
102:
336:
81:
112:
1493:- I just read the entire discussion and don't see how an opinion piece by the columnist William Safire can be interpreted as set in stone. In fact, opinion pieces in general should not be used to source facts. It is clear that not everyone thinks that the term is pejorative, as proven by the link that Jaakobou provided. Hamastan is a term widely-used by the Israeli media, including the left-wing Haaretz (
223:
202:
50:
233:
2348:- what is now being dubbed "Hamastan" will not only be physically cut off from their compatriots in the West Bank but will also be ruled by a movement that advocates armed resistance and is boycotted by Israel and the international community," says the paper's Middle East editor. "Neither side will be in a position to conduct negotiations with Israel or anyone else."
21:
3635:
country or region, and some Arabs would find it objectionable. The form حماستان is actually linguistically objectionable from several points of view, when considered in the light of standard traditional "correct" Arabic (not just the choice of the -stan suffix), and in any case "Hamastan" was not actually first created as an
English neologism..
818:), but "Hamas" is of course originally an Arabic word, while the "-stan" suffix has an accepted standard spelling in Arabic script (as found in the Arabic names of countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan). Hamastan may have started out in Hebrew in 2004, but حماستان seems to be all over the Arabic media in the last week or so...
1947:
gave a proposed compromise. Consider that the relevant sources are one opinion column and one official spokesperson with opposing perspectives. Add to this the note about
Haaretz using the term without and you come to the conclusion that there is no single perspective to consider the term and this is a good compromise.
2353:- As the dramatic news broke there was already excited talk of the Islamist movement "proving its credibility" and of the hope that with Johnston now finally free, the siege on Hamas could be lifted too. If Hamastan is seen to be functioning, this line of thinking goes, then Hamastan can break out of its isolation.
3494:
that it is used as a "quick and easy denominator" is OR. two sources which discuss the term refer to it as a pejorative and a "boo word." if you have a RS that states it is a ""quick and easy denominator," please cite it. otherwise this is your personal interpretation and not supported by sources.
3466:
No one said it was a neutral term so I'm not following the attack on fellow editors' intentions. The issue is whether it is first and foremost a pejorative (e.g. like
Amerikkka) or that it is also used without pejorative intentions as a quick and easy denominator (see above samples). Well... it seems
3173:
The term is undoubtedly negative, but it is not a "pejorative" as it lacks an element of ridicule, mocking or belittling. The term is used to indicate that a Hamas regime would be radical and repressive, traits that are perceived by the speaker to characterize some of the "-stan" countries, primarily
3028:
Oh certainly Tim, no one was suggesting Hamas wanted to rename the region to
Hamastan but only that they are not offended by it's use as a nickname for the area as it means, to them, that they are the organization in control. The use is "approvingly" as in - not offended by - but certainly not as the
1297:
The source is an opinion piece which explains that the term has been used in a pejorative manner outside of it's normative use. The opinion of said writer is no more important than that of Hamas co-founder (and it would be easy to argue the opposite). Elonka has recently explained to you how material
3549:
Ignoring the attacks on the "spades" (as this has been called), I'm not sure this is a case of original research and it seems far more basic
English understanding of the text. The term is (a) used, and (b) explained immediately after. Two sources put it in the context of "boo" words and I agree that
3450:
I came here in response to the RfC. This is a no-brainer. Hamastan is clearly not a neutral term. It has no official status (a Hamas spokesman trying to dispute the prejudice behind the word in the middle of an interview does not count as adoption, for heaven's sake), and is clearly a "boo-word", as
3432:
Whatever, dude -- I'm getting really, really tired of being told that something which I know for a fact is important is somehow supposedly not important by people who seem to know a whole lot less than I do about the specfic subject matter in question. The best way I can explain it in non-technical
3279:
Like I said in my last comment, even if Hamas members are insulted by the etymology of "-stan", that has no bearing on the question at hand. In any case, the idea that they are is at present no more than your own opinion; we have zero evidence for it, and we have evidence (admittedly limited) to the
2807:
Hamas' position, as part of the Iran-Syrian-Muslim
Brotherhood-al-Jazeera group is viewed poorly by most others who are involved in the Israeli-Arab conflict and this includes Egypt, Jordan and Morocco and not only Western countries. The Hamastan term itself was not the one being given a bad context
2556:
Ugh, the more I read this crap article, the worse I think it is. The vital claim of notability, "Since 2007, the term has been used to refer to its 2007 victory in Gaza over Fatah in the inter-Palestinian conflict," is cited to a source saying nothing of the kind. An offhand comment by one Hamas guy
2291:
Safire adds that other pejorative uses of -stan exist as well, like describing a place as being largely populated by Muslim when this is not the case (Islamistan/Londonistan — applied by Time magazine to the city of London -- came from French antiterrorist officials). Another mentioned use, which is
1724:
If this is about the chance that Hamas will call their territory
Hamastan officially, then we have no quarrel as I think that will (almost certainly) never happen. The only issue here is if in their perspective, it is a pejorative - which it is not. Hamas co-founder said they see no problem with the
3634:
The suffix "-ia" actually has an accepted counterpart in Arabic (as in the Arabic names of "Libya" and "Syria"), so that's a non-issue. More importantly, if you had been reading above, you would have noticed that it's not at all usual to give the suffix "-stan" to an Arab-ruled and Arabic-speaking
2926:
If I'm not mistaken, both the sources you are mentioning in this comment are already linked in your rebuttal and you've already mentioned your points for disagreement with me. Please allow me to post questions/comments to others without jumping on my case with the same issues you've raised already.
2787:
um, yeah, i read them. how you can say that even those articles use the term "favorably" is beyond comprehension. your unique interpretation of sources does not trump the other ones that explicitly say "that pejorative use of the suffix -stan to describe a place largely populated by
Muslims" and
2505:
I'm going to avoid directly opining on this RfC, but I must ask, why on earth do we have this article at all? The article doesn't have a single source that is actually about the term "Hamastan." The sources are simply articles about real subjects which contain brief mentions of the term. The Safire
2281:
The column by William Safire source is an interesting opinion piece which explains that the -stan suffix has been used in a pejorative manner outside of it's normative "place of" usage by Stephen Kotkin who commented that, areas in newly independent states on the fringe of the former Soviet Union —
1472:
Because his intended meaning was presumably mainly to indicate that the idea of a Hamas-ruled state was a good idea, and not to fully take as his own the particular word "Hamastan" (which sounds linguistically somewhat grotesque to many Arabic speakers, and which furthermore doesn't really fit with
1254:
The problem is that it's still a single op-ed and we have a more notable opinion by Hamas co-founder. I could agree to moving that text down but the neutral way of registering the nature of the term is 'controversial' as there's a disagreement towards the use. To be frank, I believe current version
3212:
Arabic and Persian may sound somewhat similar to you, but from the point of view of Arabic speakers, there can be a quite definite pejorative connotation resulting from just the use of a Persian suffix to name an Arab land by itself alone (quite independent of the specific associations attached to
2872:
Actually, I'm fairly certain that the quotation marks are used to show that it is not an official name and that people are unhappy to see the Palestinians splitting has no bearing on the name. I'd appreciate an explanation on how the Hamas co-founder's use of the word is viewed by you as "at least
2299:
Safire mentions the naming a place as "al Qaeda-stans" (if the movement takes over it) or mentioning that U.S. News & World Report discovered Hamastan at about the same time The New Yorker coined Hezbollistan but Safire does not actually make any statement if Hamastan has pejorative intentions
1946:
If there's better suggetsions, I'm open to consider them as long as they include Hamas' perspective on the matter. Please note that there's a crude consensus towards 'controversial' as it was suggested also by fellow wikipedia admin Ynhockey and was not objected to by Anonmoos once I explained and
1884:
Two editors, one of which is an admin, noted to you the value of op-ed articles and we're still calling it a pejorative in the very next paragraph. Can you accept this compromise or do you want to take this argument all the way to ARBCOM? Please stop repeating the same argument ignoring the points
1531:
The -stan suffix is not grotesque. It is a naming convention for Islamic territories under control of X group. i.e. if an Islamic group/tribe with the name X is in control of an area, it is sometimes referred to as X-stan. The term becomes a pejorative only when intended as one (e.g. 'Londonistan'
720:
I'm afraid it is kind of derogatory -- Mahmud al-Zahar can accept it as shorthand for "Islamist Palestinian state in which Hamas would predominate" in the context of a journalistic interview, but I seriously doubt whether it's a term that the Hamas leadership would ever use spontaneously to define
3294:
I think that how Arabic speakers perceive the word could have a lot of relevance to the issue at hand. Furthermore, you may consider all this to be purely subjective, but if you found that your own chosen political ideology / political party / religious denomination was known worldwide by a name
2837:
I am not deeply familiar with Israel/Palestine politics or with Hamas, so this opinion is based chiefly on the sources that have been cited in this talk page: it does seem to me that most of these sources use "Hamastan" as at least a dismissive term if not an epithet, so I think "pejorative" is a
1211:
The warmest of regards to you too. I have not removed it (except from the lead), and I think you agree that a sole off-the-cuff remark from an interview with a magazine reporter does not give anything official status. As for your request to explain William Safire's thinking when he deems the term
3582:
It is quite common to give oriental muslim countries a name with the suffix "-stan" (Pakistan, Afghanistan Turkmenistan and so on), as it usual to give european and other western countries names with the ending "-ia", even if it´s name in the native language is constructed in another way (slawic
3519:
Jakkobou, there is no evidence that it is not pejorative (I've pointed out the cynicism in interpreting that Hamas interview as evidence), and positive evidence that it is. Suggesting that those who go against the evidence in reliable sources in order to promote such terms in such a rhetorically
2989:
I think the quote is "tongue in cheek" because neither al-Zahar nor anyone else in Hamas has proposed or argued elsewhere that the region should actually change its name to "Hamastan". I think therefore that it is not a task that they are actually pursuing. I think that you are right that they
2106:
of the available sources. We have a reliable source that says the term is pejorative, and your position that it's not seems insufficiently sourced. You claim the term has been "approved" by Hamas, but I don't think there's support in policy for interpreting an offhand remark by a Hamas member as
2033:
Jaakaobou, please don't cite me as accepting your views; my actions are explained by the fact I don't care to get involved in any kind of edit war on this matter. Also, while Safire's column is often problematic in some respects (when he verges into the area covered by scholarly linguistics, as
1048:
It might be a pejorative among some American/British/etc. to be affiliated with Iran, but certainly a good number of people are quite happy to take that money and the ideology that follows. What makes you think Hamas considers the term a pejorative when it's clear that they have mutual goals and
3317:
analogy, if a term has an accidental, unitended negative connotation, that does not make it pejorative. If you can provide any evidence that this unintended connotation indeed exists (so far you have not done so), then I would be happy to see an explanation of the connotation in the body of the
2056:
I apologize if you felt I marked your 'acceptance', but I've only meant htat you've not shown a real sense of disagreement, which leaves MeteorMaker at a crude minority with the people who left their opinons on this thread. I'm not sure on how you'd like this article to account for if not as an
2465:
Sorry: where are the sources stating that it's pejorative? I see only a link by MeteorMaker to a source calling it a "boo" word; I don't know what that means. I don't see the link to the other source. Sources stating that a word is pejorative may be opinions, not universal fact. The sources
1507:
Again, we have an RS (and one who cannot reasonably be accused of anti-Israel bias at that) and that is all we need. In the other corner: Jaakobou's personal interpretation of an off-the-cuff remark by a Hamas member, in all likelihood intended as a joke. Even if al-Azhar had explicitly said
3264:
terms, but we might not consider it to be all that funny to find our basic beliefs and affiliations labelled in the eyes of the world using pseudo-cutesy but bogus Engrish terminology -- and educated Arabic speakers are often much more touchy about their "classical" traditional cultural and
1508:"Hamastan is not a pejorative term" (which he did not), that would only be him speaking his personal opinion and not something that somehow nullifies what other sources say. But I can agree it would be helpful to add a note that the term is "widely used by Israeli media", as you point out.
1097:
Some selected Hamas figures or Hamas supporters may defiantly embrace the term on certain occasions, or provisionally accept it as a rough-and-ready useful term of political discourse, but overall and generally it's pretty clear that the term is in fact pejorative. Just in terms of Arabic
1066:
We have a reliable source that describes the term as pejorative, and your conclusion that it's not appears to be original research. If you want to add a note that one Hamas executive liked the sound of it in an interview with Newsweek, that's fine with me, but it doesn't make the term less
3255:
It's extremely dubious whether we know any such thing, merely based on one offhand remark in one interview, as explained above. And can you give me one good reason why Hamas members would view a bastardized pseudo-Persian word, which is not good Arabic and was invented by an Israeli, as
1905:
I see no consensus at all for your wording (that you keep repeating while ignoring fellow editors as well as WP policy), particularly not your OR claim that Hamas has somehow "approved" it. Could you find an RS that corroborates that claim? And while you're at it, one that characterizes
2592:
a simple insult or epithet and nothing else (like Amerikka); in fact, it's a useful shorthand term for "Palestinian Islamic state" which has acheived a respectable amount of use in mainstream media sources, so that I really fail to see what deleting the article is supposed to achieve...
1279:
We have a reliable source that describes the term as "pejorative", and that's all we need. Your opinion that it is not pejorative, based on a creative interpretation of an off-the-cuff remark by a Hamas member, is mere original research and does not in any way outweigh William Safire.
2675:
became popular only recently, following Hamas' occupation of the Gaza strip, and has actually become quite common in use. It's probably too soon to come up with a "definition" though. Anyways, this term actually has a lot more to do with the Fatah-Hamas fight than the Israeli-Arab
2400:
I'm actually feeling, based on the inspection of sources, that citing only the Hamas co-founder for using the "place of" meaning is inaccurate as others have used it without malice as well. I'm open to rephrase suggestions but I'm thinking that 'pejorative' should not be the main
2306:
making movie goers confused about the existence of Kazakhstan as a real country. This is further illustrated by the article's first paragraph where an official living in close quarters to numerous states that use the "place of" (-stan) suffix notes his confusion "with all these
2944:
p.s. I think you misunderstood the concept of the synthesis policy. I'd suggest you run through it and examine again where you believe I am violating that policy by saying that al-Azhar is viewing the term with approval when he states that Gaza should become governed by Hamas.
2069:
and it feels disparaging that you state this to somehow not account as Hamas opinion. As I wish to find an agreeable consensus, I've offered a compromise which I believe to be fair and I'm also open to compromise suggestions that you are willing to make. Otherwise, I only see
2236:
that the term Hamastan will be marked first and foremost as a pejorative as he believes the term can only be/is only used with derogatory intent or underscores. His assertion for this is based on the belief that Hamastan should be equated with the clearly pejorative "Zionist
2903:
Your position, that Hamas endorses the term, would be considerably better if you could show evidence that they do so officially, by eg. using it in press releases, or consistently referring to Gaza as "Hamastan" in speeches and interviews. I think you're drawing several
2394:
Although the 'stan' suffix has acquired a pejorative connotation in English regarding ''"government-led extortion rackets and gangs in power, mass refugee camps and shadow economies"'', it has been used in approval by Hamas co-founder with it's standard "place of"
1407:
Jaakobou -- Don't want to impugn your perceptivity or anything, but the majority of editors of this article who have considered the context of the interview have not come to the conclusion that he was wholeheartedly endorsing and embracing the term "Hamastan"...
2435:) that state that the word is derogatory, and I don't understand what else is needed, absent sources for the contrary position. If you wish, we could perhaps compromise and add the information that the term is primarily used (presumably non-pejoratively) in
3346:
Please try to read threads before you comment on them. I never said that the term's negative connotation is accidental or unintended; in fact, I said the opposite. However, I also said that the separate, etymology-based alleged negative connotation
1102:, the word itself has a rather crude and outlandish air, from the point of view of morphology, since it incorporates an acronym, haplology, and a Persian suffix. If a Hamas-run state were to be founded, it's a 100% safe bet that its leaders would
3227:
Arabic and Persian, both of which I hear occasionally, sound very different to me. You raise an interesting point, which I was unaware of, regarding a possible negative connotation of "-stan" to an Arabic speaker, but it has no effect on whether
827:
I see my sense of humour isn't too good. The theory was that the word wasn't used at first be arabs, rather by jews, so adding a hebrew word is just as (ir)relevant as an arab one. My theory is that the creation and popularity was inspired by
1305:
Certainly, I'm not a person to agree with many of Hamas official opinions, and even if I were, the only issue here is what notable opinions believe and not what you or I believe. Please comment on content and not on fellow ediotrs (see also:
1378:. If it's fine with you, I'll put it back where it belongs. I'm not trying to persuade you in any way, just asking for a reliable source for your claim that the term is not pejorative. Or have I misunderstood you, are you not claiming that?
490:
2811:
does not add any pejorative context to either Hamastan or Fatahstan. I'm willing to reconsider my perspective on this source if you would like to explain to me how the use of the word (Hamastan) adds a pejorative context in the article's
1676:
I'm sorry, but the fact that Hamas sees itself as part of the global Muslim community doesn't mean that it's eager to adopt a bastardized pseudo-Persian name (invented by an Israeli!) for the territory it rules. Refer to the history of
2137:
of a Hamas-ruled state, while not choosing to quibble at that particular moment with the interviewer over the terminology the interviewer used. Those among Hamas supporters who are sensitive to matters such as symbolism, history, and
2375:
There is, off course, an added subcontext with the Hamastan terminology that suggests to Hamas being (a) Islamist, and (b) economically and strategically backed by Iran; but these are known facts and not meant to embed as an added
2338:- Hamas's takeover of Gaza, which yesterday seemed closer than ever, is destined to split the territories into two entities that are politically and even culturally separate: Hamastan (the Gaza Strip) and Fatahstan (the West Bank).
2715:
You have a point, though, no one could come up with a term that suggests Hamas has taken ownership over Gaza before the signs of them trying to do so became apparent. I rephrased myself to be more accurate since you did have a
2296:'s portrayal of their country calling him "Boratastan — a country of one" but this could be seen as the correct usage of the term as well and a mere attempt at saying that "Boratstan" should not be confused with Kazakhstan.
1943:). I'm not ingnoring WP policy at all, to the contrary - I've been making a concerned effort to explain the issue as well as propose a compromise and allowed for a 'wrong version' of the article to stay up in the meantime.
3433:
terms is that Hamastan is the Pocari Sweat of international geopolitical labels (since none of you seem to be able to understand, or to be willing to make any effort to understand, the linguistic explanation I offered).
2962:
Sorry to repeat my rebuttal, but if you look closely, it was in direct response to the third time in this RfC only you repeated your argument "it's not pejorative because one Hamas bigshot has said 'why not?'". As about
2506:
column, for example, is explicitly about the proliferation of annoying cutesy neologisms, and expends exactly one half of one sentence on "Hamastan." One would find sources of roughly similar weight for terms like "
1685:
use the word "Hamastan" when picking the flag, anthemn, motto, coat of arms, and name of a Hamas-ruled state. Your own "personal notes" about an offhand remark in one particular interview do not change all this.
634:
895:
i'm not interested in fighting over this one, i figure i'll accept the "surprise" notation if it was referred to someone gullible about palestinian issues... like say, the british media or haaretz newspaper.
3236:
intended by the speaker. In any case, we know for a fact that a Hamas figure did not see it as a negative term, so I doubt if the accidental negative connotation is really significant. Continuing with the
3382:
The "Red China" analogy is very poor, since there's nothing inherently derogatory or non-Chinese about that phrase in itself ("red" can have positive connotations in Chinese culture, and a song entitled
1634:) so I don't understand what you want us to do about it. I have no objection to a formal source that repeats your perspective but Hamas' perspective is certainly notable. Suggestions/Thoughts/References?
2701:
the Hamas takeover of Gaza, and its main implication is to refer to the concept of a de facto Palestinian Islamic state, in various present and future scenarios; it is not simply a synonym for "Gaza".
1497:). Because the term has clearly generated some controversy, I suggest using 'controversial', which is a neutral term that doesn't take sides. Alternatively, the label should be removed entirely. --
500:
1003:
This will both reflect the fact it was born as pejorative, and the current reality where you can occasionally hear it used as a statement of fact: Hamastan in Gaza and Fatahland in the West Bank.
760:
Careful, please. We should make a distinction here between "spelling in the Arabic script" and the "written form of an Arabic word", because, as others have noted, "-stan" is Persian in origin. -
3241:
analogy, it's as if "red" happened to be the Chinese word for "Japan". That wouldn't make the term a pejorative, much less if a Chinese leader said "yeah, we are Red China, and proud of it".
737:
2439:. Your earlier main argument that Mahmoud al-Zahar has made an informal remark about the term that you interpret as approval is very weak, and I'm glad to see you're finally abandoning it.
3414:. If you want to dispute that argument, keep in mind that you have still not brought any evidence to show that this alleged negative connotation even exists in anyone's mind but your own.
416:
2304:
2287:
2245:
1853:
1229:
401:
1792:
The 'stan' suffix has been approved by Hamas co-founder for it's "place of" standard meanning, although the suffix has also acquired a pejorative connotation in English regarding
602:
2343:- "...I cautioned that it was a tactical and strategic error by the State of Israel to recognize the state of Hamastan," he added, referring to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip.
1191:
MeteorMaker, I'd appreciate an explanation to why you'd remove the Hamas co-founder perspective as well as the reasoning why the term is deemed a pejorative by the used source.
914:
Both versions suck equally, really. "Hamas won the election" is succinct and factual, and really does not need qualifiers unless someone can point to sources to the contrary.
3351:
is accidental and unintended, if it indeed exists. The only RS that has been brought that can bear light on this separate alleged connotation indicates that it doesn't exist.
1950:
If you insist that the opinion poll trumpts out the opinion of Hamas, then we cannot agree on this and my only suggestion here is to open up the discussion for review through
2565:
and redirect it. Of course, it will be reverted, at which point we can all expend our energies on an AfD debate, which I'm sure will be productive and civil </sarcasm: -->
517:
362:
3550:
it could be viewed as a pejorative. Per consensus, I am forced to agree that this is the main viewpoint of fellow wiki-editors who chose to participate. Did I miss anything?
1583:-- with its incorporation of an acronym, haplology, and use of a non-Arabic suffix to refer to a location in Arab lands -- is rather crude and outlandish in terms of Arabic
1121:
There's really no validation that "it's pretty clear that the term is in fact pejorative". Certainly, a Hamas co-founder and spokesperson is an indication to the opposite.
859:
Right now, it's looking like Hamastan is Gaza, but the term was originally meant to refer hypothetically to all the Palestinian territories being under Hamas domination...
3774:
174:
1866:
Jaakobou, we have a reliable source that characterizes the term as "pejorative". Your OR that "it has been approved by a Hamas founder" does not in any way nullify that.
3707:
3703:
3689:
509:
2971:
conclusion (that Hamas approves the term) from one primary source, then use that OR as a source for another OR conclusion, that that means the term is not pejorative.
2766:' main ideology is that they seek the destruction of Israel. No offense, but it seems that you are not very familiar with this topic and might have skipped the given
431:
3789:
3769:
1991:
1) Hamas has approved the term "Hamastan" (you have now added "Hamas perspective" and "Hamas opinion", so clearly you must have sources that you have not shown yet)
1298:
is inserted in these instances so I'm not following why you'd try to promote removal of a clearly notable and well referenced opinion (Review the policy, it is not
279:
3675:
572:
1536:
which can be regarded as an offensive suggestion) and not automatically. This is illustrated by a good number of areas who use the suffix out of their own will.
184:
3784:
1988:
I have not commented on you, only your suggested changes to the article, which I find insufficiently sourced. Again, kindly find sources for your claims that
587:
3232:
is a pejorative. That negative connotation is accidental: it is not intended by the speaker, and it is completely unrelated to the negative indication that
356:
3104:
I would not object. It is "pejorative" not because it is inherently humiliating but because those who use the term apply it with a negative connotation.
31:
3467:
that most people find it offensive regardless of the source examples above, so I'll figure out a way to fuse the issues together into the lead paragraph.
551:
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one of the sources cited above suggests. Those pushing it as a proper title are clearly POV pushing. This is an encyclopaedia, not a political chatsite.
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Hamas sees itself as a member of the Islamic Ummah rather than the Arab World (A reason they are rejected by Arab leaders as well as Western countries).
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that other sources which use the word do so favorably on the other hand. obviously, we go by the sources' interpretations and not those of wp editors.
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choose to give it the name "Hamastan" (something like the Islamic Emirate of Palestine or Islamic Republic of Palestine would be much more likely...).
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the various different countries with "-stan" -- countries which may be perceived quite differently by Hamas members than they are perceived by you).
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The use of the term also predates the election of Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza, so Netanyahu is only echoing a word Hamas uses to define itself.
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negative in the name, which is why a Hamas figure can see it as acceptable; you wouldn't get a similar reaction to a name like, oh, I don't know,
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Quite frankly, it seems to me that this is an esoteric attempt to broaden the Israeli/Palestinian fight here at the English Knowledge (XXG) site.
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The leader, as stated in the article, accepts the term and welcomes the establishment of an Islamic state in Palestine like in Afghanistan.
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I remind you that there are two RSs that contradict your notion that the term's negative connotations are "accidental" and "unintended".
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be more receptive -- provided that the word was actually listed in a reputable dictionary. More on that momentarily.) I don't consider
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Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan — which the BBC identified as “collectively known as the Central Asian ‘stans.’” were
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Sorry if I didn't repost the "On Language" link, I incorrectly assumed people would look at the relevant sections Jaakobou linked to.
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explains both perspectives (pejorative/not) in a clear and neutral manner so that readers can get the full sense of the term from the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110928101503/http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/eng/eng_n/hamastan_e.htm
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For instance, has al-Azhar taken any steps to elevate the term to official status? Has he mentioned it again in other contexts?
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But you keep removing "pejorative", based on your own interpretation of a remark from a Hamas member. Does Mr al-Azhar actually
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The Arabic spelling would be حماستان , but that doesn't really look like an Arabic word. However, it does get 588 Google hits:
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sensitive area are POV pushing is hardly an attack. It's calling a spade a spade. It's not an offence to cite WP regulations.
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p.s. best I'm aware, this term is not about the entire would be Palestinian state but only about the current status of Gaza.
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this is the crux of the matter. we have two sources which discuss the term's negative connotation on one hand, and your
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and I think it was used mainly by Israeli's right before the disangagement, so maybe a Hebrew script is more precise.
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that wouldn't make the term a pejorative, much less if a Chinese leader said "yeah, we are Red China, and proud of it
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from an incidental remark, above all that it somehow nullifies the reliable sources that say the term is pejorative.
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Al-Zahar saw the expresion as a compliment, so even if it was meant to be pejorative, not everyone sees it that way.
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obviously derogatory. why else would israeli officials "warn" that gaza might become it? is this rfc serious?
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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There's a limit to how many times I'm willing to repeat myself, and we've just about reached it. I said that
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It looks more like he's offended as though the reporter suggested they should not be in control over Gaza.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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opinion piece. Anyways, if you have better suggestions on the phrasing, I'm certainly open to hear them.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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would not object to the term, but I don't think they are considering it seriously in the first place.
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would contain an analogous element to your alleged etymology-based negative connotation (and I quote)
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goes against the connotations of English words, then you might not find it to be a trivial matter.
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People's perception that it's bad for the Palestinians to have Hamas in control doesn't mean that
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nickname suggesting Gaza should indeed be the 'land of Hamas' (i.e. Hamastan). Have you looked at
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What makes you think al-Azhar, who takes money and training from Iran, takes the term with Irony?
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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article. In the meantime, the word "pejorative" should be removed from the lede as inaccurate.
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Are you trying to persuade that the Hamas co-founder says his organization should be berated?
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It still seems that you agree Hamas takes a liking to the standard meaning of the term (per
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that violates the linguistic or cultural conventions of your language in the same way that
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The term has been used in it's original 'place of' meaning and also in a favorable context:
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Yes, and we've said repeatedly that the strongest possibility is that he was endorsing the
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but I believe you're misreading the value of the news report vs. Hamas/General use sources.
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It wasn't originally an Arabic word, but it looks like it's on the way to becoming one...
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Using "controversial" as the main descriptive and adding the following text to the lead:
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It really seems that we're going around in circles. I've cited Hamas co-founder saying
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What makes you think the term is not pejorative? Has al-Azhar or anybody else said so?
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Why should Knowledge (XXG) shed undeserved light on such silly partisan epithets? <
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/eng/eng_n/hamastan_e.htm
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It seems that you agree Hamas take a liking to the standard meaning of the term (per
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2244:) and a single opinion column by William Safire published on New York Times titled:
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Maybe we can add: "a crude propagandist concept, originally meant as pejorative...".
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i think there is room to add the (gullible) westerner sources which were surprized.
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These are a lot of personal notes without anything specific to the subject at hand.
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Red China was a pejorative term used to refer to the People's Republic of China...
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In any regard, my response to the "pejorative" claim (as seen above) was/is that:
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the term which Hamas calls its own ideology by, namely "Islam", not "Hamasism").
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Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran
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I never said "-stan" on its own was grotesque; I said that the term "Hamastan"
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The first recorded use I found is from a Nov. 2004 piece by an Israeli general
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3126:(pardon the quoting). For example, one of the sources given above states that
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btw, in that sense, I consider the phrasing used in the Red China article --
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tongue in cheek". I just don't see nothing of the sorts when looking at the "
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3) the term is considered anything else than a pejorative by anybody notable.
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Numerous sources also use the term with it's original "place of" meaning:
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The Hebrew spelling in the Interwiki link in the article is חמאסטאן (i.e.
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sort of derogatory is that of the Embassy of Kazakhstan not appreciating
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and how it's applicable to your hypothesis: you appear to be drawing a
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I'd like to find an agreeable consensus too, but it should be based on
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becomes "Hamas response." The article is almost as long as our actual
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and can go deeper into the article for background notes about Hamas.
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If it is an agreeable course of action, I'd be inclined to open an
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Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
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William Safire doesn't actually say that Hamastan is a pejorative:
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That comment doesn't make it clear at all. Do you have something
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I suggest to replace this expression by "pejorative" for NPoV
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languages are forming the state name often with an "-o", see
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Like I explained two comments ago, and illustrated with the
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adding a "Trashcanistan" punditry to his observation/theory.
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being an insult? English speakers are generally amused by
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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effort that cites him; as far as I am concerned, the man
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Please comment on content and not on fellow editors (per
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does not have its own article however — it redirects to
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Articles needing translation from Hebrew Knowledge (XXG)
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Taliban Afghanistan, I would imagine. There is nothing
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There's a semblance of consensus by uninvolved editors.
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notwithstanding (And I am singularly unimpressed with
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It is pejorative and Islamists take this with irony...
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if "red" happened to be the Chinese word for "Japan".
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2323:. This was described in an early article version as
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Talk:Hamastan#Hamastan_is_not_a_deraugatory_nickname
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Good work so far. I am a bit apprehensive about the
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Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
250:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
3702:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1168:other than the op-ed about eastern-asia countries?
3100:before getting here, but if that article had said
2317:Hamas co-founder has used the term favorably. e.g
696:reference though. Do you really think it applies?
3265:linguistic heritage than English speakers are...
2588:It's undeniably derogatory in its way, but it is
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1632:"the idea of a Hamas-ruled state was a good idea"
1541:"the idea of a Hamas-ruled state was a good idea"
1142:See comment of "20:51, 2 February 2007" above...
2854:is right and this article should be merged into
3006:makes an excellent analogy by comparing it to "
984:Taking their irony at first degree is not NPoV.
603:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in Israel
3688:This message was posted before February 2018.
749:Wow -- now that same link gets 105,000 hits!
2327:which would certainly fit the source content.
1547:, it deals with presenting both perspectives.
1426:Please explain to me where I'm mispercieving
8:
3591:.) Nobody takes care when we say "Egypt" to
2808:and surely, the first of the example sources
588:Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
3096:I admit to not having read the article for
2788:"boo word" in regard to the term hamastan.
2487:(and I added it to my above post as well).
2038:), it is most definitely not an "Op-Ed"...
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3658:I have just modified one external link on
2267:Talk:Hamastan#a_crude_propagandist_concept
2104:an individual editor's own interpretations
518:Israel articles missing geocoordinate data
402:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration
363:Unknown-importance Israel-related articles
343:Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
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75:
3775:Low-importance Palestine-related articles
2528:People's Republic of Lumps in My Oatmeal
1532:suggests Islamic groups have taken over
573:Knowledge (XXG) requested maps in Israel
141:on Knowledge (XXG). Join us by visiting
1842:
1775:Suggested rephrase for the second part:
715:--04:42, 20 August 2006 209.197.148.184
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3790:Mid-importance Israel-related articles
3770:Start-Class Palestine-related articles
3651:External links modified (January 2018)
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706:Hamastan is not a deraugatory nickname
30:on 19 April 2009 (UTC). The result of
2617:I am offering my 2₵ on the subject:
159:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Palestine
145:, where you can add your name to the
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2078:) as a possible way to move forward.
1591:or "construct state" construction).
244:This article is within the scope of
123:This article is within the scope of
3785:Start-Class Israel-related articles
1212:pejorative, here is the full text:
432:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel
66:It is of interest to the following
357:Unassessed Israel-related articles
264:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Israel
14:
3662:. Please take a moment to review
3410:I said that in the hypothetical,
3349:about which AnonMoos was speaking
2319:"It should be Hamastan. Why not?"
2065:"It should be Hamastan. Why not?"
1428:"It should be Hamastan. Why not?"
552:Israel articles needing attention
535:Israel articles needing infoboxes
2383:Previously suggested compromise:
1357:p.s. I did not remove the word.
378:Cleanup listing for this project
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149:where you can contribute to the
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2875:It should be Hamastan. Why not?
2697:The term was actually invented
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1998:'s "On Language" column in the
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568:Module:Location map/data/Israel
284:This article has been rated as
179:This article has been rated as
26:This article was nominated for
3780:WikiProject Palestine articles
2166:to resolve the dispute around
515:Add geographic coordinates to
429:Participate in discussions at
162:Template:WikiProject Palestine
1:
3490:no, you misunderstand. your
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2152:11:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
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1181:18:28, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
1152:17:45, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
1134:16:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
1116:15:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
258:and see a list of open tasks.
3756:16:34, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
2559:Governance of the Gaza Strip
2190:RfC - Pejorative terminology
1374:I'm sorry, but you actually
1077:08:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
1062:08:25, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
1044:23:01, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
1030:22:11, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
944:a crude propagandist concept
877:already used the expresion (
744:20:48, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
726:20:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
701:12:24, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
600:Add pictures to articles in
3795:WikiProject Israel articles
3645:05:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
2257:Relevant past discussions:
1013:22:03, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
996:11:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
977:11:03, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
959:08:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
487:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu
267:Template:WikiProject Israel
3811:
3719:(last update: 5 June 2024)
3655:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
3078:People's Republic of China
2827:20:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2800:19:07, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2783:09:17, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2755:02:12, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2733:01:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2711:01:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2693:01:27, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2664:00:31, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2647:and not one dictionary --
2603:01:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
2584:23:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
2552:23:38, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
2497:19:26, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
2479:18:15, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
2449:16:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
2416:15:02, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
2300:but rather focuses on the
570:. Add maps to articles in
451:Diamond industry in Israel
290:project's importance scale
185:project's importance scale
165:Palestine-related articles
3190:is not really similar to
2229:User:MeteorMaker requests
1885:raised by fellow editors.
886:22:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
864:21:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
841:15:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
823:13:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
798:11:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
778:08:54, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
765:22:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
754:07:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
296:
283:
216:
178:
95:
74:
3629:10:26, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
3566:10:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
3530:14:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
3507:13:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
3482:08:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
3461:03:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
3443:12:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
3424:06:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
3397:02:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
3361:11:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
3055:-- to work well for me.
2221:08:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
936:13:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
919:11:59, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
909:07:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
510:Geographical coordinates
3342:19:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
3328:19:04, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
3309:21:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
3290:11:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
3275:23:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
3251:11:36, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
3223:01:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
3208:23:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
3143:15:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
3114:14:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
3090:13:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
3072:It's worth noting that
3068:13:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
3042:13:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
3020:21:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
2981:21:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
2958:21:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
2940:21:06, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
2922:20:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
2893:17:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
2868:16:46, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
2252:Response (by Jaakobou):
2000:New York Times Magazine
869:Conception of expresion
479:Public Defence (Israel)
380:is available. See also
270:Israel-related articles
2111:is an example of one?
1812:Thoughts/suggestions?
1797:
1621:With all due respect,
1232:
1217:
56:This article is rated
2906:unfounded conclusions
1790:
1727:my suggested phrasing
1545:my suggested phrasing
1495:op-ed by Ze'ev Schiff
1340:it's not pejorative?
1226:
1213:
301:Project Israel To Do:
126:WikiProject Palestine
60:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
3700:regular verification
2455:Add your notes here.
879:hope you read hebrew
386:the tool's wiki page
382:the list by category
3690:After February 2018
3194:, but is more like
2460:Comments by others:
1860:, December 31, 2006
650:Translate to Hebrew
3744:InternetArchiveBot
3695:InternetArchiveBot
3416:Jalapenos do exist
3353:Jalapenos do exist
3320:Jalapenos do exist
3282:Jalapenos do exist
3243:Jalapenos do exist
3200:Jalapenos do exist
2994:Jalapenos do exist
2768:#favorable context
2635:was cited, then I
2561:. I'm going to be
2524:Soviet Canuckistan
1294:Dear MeteorMaker,
1049:ideological bond?
855:Gaza vs. West Bank
566:See discussion at
247:WikiProject Israel
139:State of Palestine
135:Palestinian people
62:content assessment
3720:
2770:sources as well.
2246:Year of the Stans
2036:Language Instinct
2034:discussed in the
1881:Dear MeteorMaker,
1854:Year of the Stans
1300:original reaserch
891:surprize surprize
690:
689:
686:
685:
682:
681:
678:
677:
674:
673:
532:Add infoboxes to
495:Pre-Modern Aliyah
467:Sephardic Haredim
195:
194:
191:
190:
42:
41:
3802:
3754:
3745:
3718:
3717:
3696:
3558:
3522:VsevolodKrolikov
3499:
3474:
3453:VsevolodKrolikov
3135:
3060:
3034:
3005:
2996:
2950:
2932:
2885:
2853:
2844:
2819:
2792:
2775:
2747:
2725:
2685:
2485:Here it is again
2469:
2408:
2364:(Hebrew samples)
2302:"plays on names"
2213:
2202:
2196:
2177:
2100:reliable sources
2086:
1964:
1893:
1861:
1852:William Safire,
1850:
1817:
1737:
1644:
1555:
1440:
1362:
1324:
1267:
1199:
1173:
1126:
1054:
1022:
928:
901:
483:Prisoner of Zion
424:Deletion sorting
338:
331:
330:
298:
272:
271:
268:
265:
262:
241:
236:
235:
234:
225:
218:
217:
212:
204:
197:
167:
166:
163:
160:
157:
143:the project page
120:
118:Palestine portal
115:
114:
113:
104:
97:
96:
91:
83:
76:
59:
53:
52:
44:
23:
16:
3810:
3809:
3805:
3804:
3803:
3801:
3800:
3799:
3760:
3759:
3748:
3743:
3711:
3704:have permission
3694:
3668:this simple FaQ
3653:
3580:
3556:
3497:
3472:
3385:The East is Red
3170:
3133:
3058:
3032:
2992:
2991:
2948:
2930:
2883:
2840:
2839:
2817:
2790:
2773:
2745:
2723:
2683:
2671:- the term was
2627:can kiss my ass
2467:
2462:
2429:reliable source
2424:
2406:
2242:State of Israel
2211:
2200:
2194:
2192:
2175:
2084:
1962:
1891:
1864:
1851:
1844:
1815:
1735:
1642:
1553:
1438:
1360:
1322:
1265:
1197:
1171:
1124:
1052:
1020:
946:
926:
899:
893:
871:
857:
734:
708:
670:
655:David Bar-Hayim
463:Rami Kleinstein
447:Ayala Procaccia
399:Participate in
329:
269:
266:
263:
260:
259:
237:
232:
230:
210:
164:
161:
158:
155:
154:
147:list of members
116:
111:
109:
89:
57:
12:
11:
5:
3808:
3806:
3798:
3797:
3792:
3787:
3782:
3777:
3772:
3762:
3761:
3738:
3737:
3730:
3683:
3682:
3674:Added archive
3652:
3649:
3648:
3647:
3579:
3578:"Wrong" suffix
3576:
3575:
3574:
3573:
3572:
3571:
3570:
3569:
3568:
3553:Warm regards,
3551:
3547:
3537:
3536:
3535:
3534:
3533:
3532:
3512:
3511:
3510:
3509:
3492:interpretation
3485:
3484:
3469:Warm regards,
3468:
3448:
3447:
3446:
3445:
3427:
3426:
3380:
3379:
3378:
3377:
3376:
3375:
3374:
3373:
3372:
3371:
3370:
3369:
3368:
3367:
3366:
3365:
3364:
3363:
3184:Hamasturbation
3169:
3166:
3165:
3164:
3163:
3162:
3161:
3160:
3159:
3158:
3157:
3156:
3155:
3154:
3146:
3145:
3117:
3116:
3093:
3092:
3045:
3044:
3023:
3022:
2986:
2985:
2984:
2983:
2942:
2898:
2897:
2896:
2895:
2835:
2834:
2833:
2832:
2831:
2830:
2829:
2814:Warm regards,
2813:
2741:
2740:
2739:
2738:
2737:
2736:
2735:
2720:Warm regards,
2719:
2717:
2679:
2654:
2619:William Safire
2610:
2609:
2608:
2607:
2606:
2605:
2502:
2501:
2500:
2499:
2461:
2458:
2457:
2456:
2452:
2451:
2423:
2420:
2419:
2403:Warm regards,
2402:
2398:
2397:
2391:
2380:
2379:
2378:
2377:
2370:
2369:
2368:
2367:
2366:
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2354:
2349:
2344:
2339:
2334:
2328:
2310:
2309:
2308:
2297:
2289:
2270:
2269:
2264:
2224:
2223:
2191:
2188:
2172:Warm regards,
2171:
2157:
2156:
2155:
2154:
2126:
2125:
2124:
2123:
2081:Warm regards,
2079:
2061:
2058:
2054:
2053:Heyo AnonMoos,
2032:
2030:
2029:
2028:
2027:
2026:
2025:
2024:
2023:
2010:
2007:
1996:William Safire
1992:
1989:
1979:
1978:
1977:
1976:
1975:
1974:
1959:Warm regards,
1957:
1956:
1955:
1948:
1944:
1929:
1928:
1927:
1926:
1908:William Safire
1888:With respect,
1886:
1882:
1863:
1862:
1858:New York Times
1841:
1840:
1839:
1838:
1837:
1836:
1835:
1834:
1833:
1832:
1831:
1830:
1829:
1828:
1827:
1789:
1788:
1787:
1786:
1785:
1784:
1783:
1782:
1781:
1780:
1779:
1778:
1777:
1776:
1760:
1759:
1758:
1757:
1756:
1755:
1754:
1753:
1752:
1751:
1750:
1749:
1748:
1747:
1730:
1709:
1708:
1707:
1706:
1705:
1704:
1703:
1702:
1701:
1700:
1699:
1698:
1663:
1662:
1661:
1660:
1659:
1658:
1657:
1656:
1655:
1654:
1639:With respect,
1637:
1636:
1635:
1628:
1625:
1610:
1609:
1608:
1607:
1606:
1605:
1604:
1603:
1570:
1569:
1568:
1567:
1566:
1565:
1550:Warm regards,
1548:
1537:
1529:
1521:
1520:
1488:
1487:
1486:
1485:
1467:
1466:
1465:
1464:
1433:
1424:
1423:Heyo AnonMoos,
1405:
1404:
1403:
1402:
1401:
1400:
1399:
1398:
1397:
1396:
1395:
1394:
1393:
1392:
1391:
1390:
1355:
1319:Warm regards,
1317:
1316:
1315:
1303:
1260:
1247:
1246:
1245:
1244:
1221:
1220:
1219:
1218:
1194:Warm regards,
1192:
1188:
1187:
1186:
1185:
1184:
1183:
1157:
1156:
1155:
1154:
1137:
1136:
1095:
1094:
1093:
1092:
1091:
1090:
1089:
1088:
1087:
1086:
1085:
1084:
1083:
1082:
1081:
1080:
1079:
1001:
985:
982:
962:
961:
945:
942:
941:
940:
939:
938:
892:
889:
870:
867:
856:
853:
852:
851:
850:
849:
848:
847:
846:
845:
844:
843:
805:
804:
803:
802:
801:
800:
783:
782:
781:
780:
768:
767:
757:
756:
733:
730:
729:
728:
707:
704:
688:
687:
684:
683:
680:
679:
676:
675:
672:
671:
669:
668:
667:
666:
645:
637:
624:
607:
590:
577:
556:
539:
522:
505:
497:
436:
419:
406:
389:
367:
342:
340:
339:
328:
327:
322:
317:
312:
306:
303:
302:
294:
293:
286:Mid-importance
282:
276:
275:
273:
256:the discussion
243:
242:
226:
214:
213:
211:Mid‑importance
205:
193:
192:
189:
188:
181:Low-importance
177:
171:
170:
168:
122:
121:
105:
93:
92:
90:Low‑importance
84:
72:
71:
65:
54:
40:
39:
32:the discussion
24:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
3807:
3796:
3793:
3791:
3788:
3786:
3783:
3781:
3778:
3776:
3773:
3771:
3768:
3767:
3765:
3758:
3757:
3752:
3747:
3746:
3735:
3731:
3728:
3724:
3723:
3722:
3715:
3709:
3705:
3701:
3697:
3691:
3686:
3681:
3677:
3673:
3672:
3671:
3669:
3665:
3661:
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3650:
3646:
3642:
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3622:
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3606:
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3216:
3211:
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3209:
3205:
3201:
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3189:
3185:
3181:
3177:
3172:
3171:
3167:
3152:
3148:
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3141:
3140:
3139:
3136:
3129:
3125:
3121:
3120:
3119:
3118:
3115:
3111:
3107:
3103:
3099:
3095:
3094:
3091:
3087:
3083:
3079:
3075:
3071:
3070:
3069:
3066:
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3054:
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3025:
3024:
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3017:
3013:
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2476:
2472:
2464:
2463:
2459:
2454:
2453:
2450:
2446:
2442:
2438:
2437:Israeli media
2434:
2430:
2426:
2425:
2421:
2418:
2417:
2414:
2413:
2412:
2409:
2396:
2392:
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2255:
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875:Silvan Shalom
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3714:source check
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3297:Pocari Sweat
3257:
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3179:
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2698:
2687:
2681:
2672:
2668:
2651:-- comes up!
2648:
2646:
2641:
2640:
2636:
2632:Noam Chomsky
2630:
2622:
2589:
2575:
2568:
2543:
2536:
2531:
2431:(and here's
2410:
2404:
2401:descriptive.
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2173:
2159:
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2140:sprachgefühl
2139:
2133:
2132:
2088:
2082:
2064:
2060:MeteorMaker,
2031:
1966:
1960:
1936:MeteorMaker
1895:
1889:
1865:
1845:
1819:
1813:
1793:
1791:
1739:
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1588:
1585:sprachgefühl
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1427:
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1364:
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1195:
1175:
1169:
1128:
1122:
1103:
1100:sprachgefühl
1099:
1096:
1067:pejorative.
1056:
1050:
1024:
1018:
930:
924:
903:
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894:
873:In may 2005
872:
858:
735:
714:
712:
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691:
649:
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620:Israel stubs
618:
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459:Levin Kipnis
439:
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392:
391:
370:
369:
361:
355:
347:
346:
285:
245:
180:
133:region, the
124:
68:WikiProjects
35:
3334:MeteorMaker
3180:universally
3082:MeteorMaker
2973:MeteorMaker
2914:MeteorMaker
2532:ad nauseum.
2489:MeteorMaker
2441:MeteorMaker
2433:another one
2376:pejorative.
2113:MeteorMaker
2013:MeteorMaker
1916:MeteorMaker
1868:MeteorMaker
1510:MeteorMaker
1454:MeteorMaker
1380:MeteorMaker
1342:MeteorMaker
1282:MeteorMaker
1234:MeteorMaker
1069:MeteorMaker
1036:MeteorMaker
394:Collaborate
151:discussions
58:Start-class
3764:Categories
3751:Report bug
3617:sakartvelo
3609:al-Jazā’ir
3280:contrary.
3176:inherently
3106:Tim Pierce
3012:Tim Pierce
2860:Tim Pierce
2629:. Now if
2520:Micro$ oft
2471:Coppertwig
2427:We have a
2395:meaning.".
2168:this issue
2074:(possibly
1679:Shu`ubiyya
1581:as a whole
816:he:חמאסטאן
663:Guy Oseary
455:Edna Arbel
36:Not-delete
3734:this tool
3727:this tool
3601:Slovensko
3597:Slovakia
3589:slovensko
3404:Red China
3315:Red China
3239:Red China
3196:Red China
3098:Red China
3074:Red China
3008:Red China
2516:AmeriKKKa
2422:Rebuttal:
1528:AnonMoos,
834:he:פתחלנד
830:Fatahland
694:Jesusland
659:Guy Bavli
498:See also
354:Rate the
156:Palestine
131:Palestine
87:Palestine
3740:Cheers.—
3660:Hamastan
3637:AnonMoos
3557:Jaakobou
3473:Jaakobou
3435:AnonMoos
3389:AnonMoos
3301:AnonMoos
3267:AnonMoos
3230:Hamastan
3215:AnonMoos
3192:Israhell
3188:Hamastan
3134:Jaakobou
3059:Jaakobou
3033:Jaakobou
2965:WP:SYNTH
2949:Jaakobou
2931:Jaakobou
2927:Thanks,
2884:Jaakobou
2818:Jaakobou
2774:Jaakobou
2762:because
2724:Jaakobou
2703:AnonMoos
2684:Jaakobou
2680:Cheers,
2642:Hamastan
2615:Jaakobou
2595:AnonMoos
2508:IsraHell
2407:Jaakobou
2333:Samples:
2227:Request:
2212:Jaakobou
2176:Jaakobou
2144:AnonMoos
2102:and not
2085:Jaakobou
2040:AnonMoos
1963:Jaakobou
1892:Jaakobou
1816:Jaakobou
1736:Jaakobou
1732:Cheers,
1688:AnonMoos
1643:Jaakobou
1593:AnonMoos
1554:Jaakobou
1499:Ynhockey
1475:AnonMoos
1439:Jaakobou
1435:Cheers,
1410:AnonMoos
1361:Jaakobou
1323:Jaakobou
1266:Jaakobou
1262:Cheers,
1198:Jaakobou
1172:Jaakobou
1166:tangible
1144:AnonMoos
1125:Jaakobou
1108:AnonMoos
1053:Jaakobou
1021:Jaakobou
927:Jaakobou
900:Jaakobou
861:AnonMoos
820:AnonMoos
775:AnonMoos
762:Fsotrain
751:AnonMoos
741:AnonMoos
723:AnonMoos
721:itself.
544:Maintain
411:Copyedit
137:and the
28:deletion
3664:my edit
3613:Georgia
3605:Algeria
3498:untwirl
3262:Engrish
3186:. Thus
3151:opinion
2842:Eleland
2791:untwirl
2746:untwirl
2669:Comment
2656:--NBahn
2649:not one
2613:As per
2563:WP:BOLD
2530:," etc
2512:Zionazi
2307:stans".
2237:Entity"
2198:RFClang
2134:concept
2002:is an "
1491:Comment
1257:WP:LEAD
988:Ceedjee
951:Ceedjee
698:Andersa
527:Infobox
372:Cleanup
315:history
288:on the
183:on the
3621:Feliks
2716:point.
2699:before
2673:coined
2164:WP:RfC
2109:nigger
2076:WP:RfC
1952:WP:RfC
1941:WP:NPA
1534:London
1312:WP:CIV
1308:WP:NPA
661:, and
629:Update
441:Expand
349:Assess
261:Israel
252:Israel
208:Israel
64:scale.
3585:cesko
3546:Well,
3168:Break
3049:Note:
2969:WP:OR
2856:Hamas
2812:text.
2764:Hamas
2637:might
2582:: -->
2580:edits
2571:eland
2550:: -->
2548:edits
2539:eland
2294:Borat
2160:Note:
2072:WP:DR
2004:op-ed
1912:op-ed
1683:never
1589:idafa
1005:DGtal
969:DGtal
883:DGtal
838:DGtal
795:DGtal
641:Other
612:Stubs
595:Photo
325:purge
320:watch
3641:talk
3625:talk
3599:for
3593:misr
3526:talk
3503:talk
3457:talk
3439:talk
3420:talk
3393:talk
3357:talk
3338:talk
3324:talk
3305:talk
3286:talk
3271:talk
3247:talk
3219:talk
3204:talk
3110:talk
3086:talk
3016:talk
2977:talk
2918:talk
2864:talk
2796:talk
2751:talk
2707:talk
2676:one.
2660:talk
2599:talk
2576:talk
2566:<
2544:talk
2526:," "
2522:," "
2518:," "
2514:," "
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2493:talk
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1920:talk
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1514:talk
1479:talk
1458:talk
1414:talk
1384:talk
1346:talk
1310:and
1286:talk
1238:talk
1148:talk
1112:talk
1073:talk
1040:talk
1009:talk
992:talk
973:talk
955:talk
916:Tarc
617:See
582:NPOV
549:See
384:and
360:and
310:edit
34:was
3708:RfC
3678:to
3615:to
3607:to
3595:or
3587:or
3258:not
3178:or
3010:".
2623:any
2590:NOT
1994:2)
1914:"?
1376:did
1338:say
1104:not
739:--
561:Map
280:Mid
175:Low
3766::
3721:.
3716:}}
3712:{{
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2569:el
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444::
435:.
427::
414::
405:.
397::
388:.
375::
366:.
352::
292:.
187:.
153:.
70::
38:.
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