469:: "Please bear in mind that Knowledge (XXG) is not a discussion forum. Knowledge (XXG) can be a very energetic place, and it's best for the project as a whole if we concentrate our energies on improving articles rather than defending our pet theories, ideologies, religions, etc." Editing an article is not "harassment", even if you don't agree with the edit. And since there is no such thing as a "Knowledge (XXG) moderator", much less any "decision" made by one, there is nothing to "violate". The only thing being "violated" by FFL, and now by you, are the policies and guidelines of Knowledge (XXG) -
1383:
objective. Your POV bias is showing brightly. For those of you lucky enough not to understand, Mr. Cicero belongs to the SRIA as Mr. Gilbert, the other source that Mr. Max likes to tout belongs to Cicero's order. Hardly objective. Certainly Bruce Wilson has less bias and his article is primary source material regarding SRIA history. Simply because Mr. Max is too lazy to obtain a copy (or rather makes it a point of not obtaining one so that he can go on touting revisionist history) does NOT make it hard to find!--
31:
1158:
MacGregor
Mathers later claimed that the Secret Chiefs provided him with the materials for his creation of the Golden Dawn's second or 'inner' order. The Rosicrucian Order of A+O today claims that the Secret Chiefs in 2002 provided them with new Cypher Manuscripts for the creation of the Golden Dawn's third and final order, thus completing the entire three order system originally envisioned for the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
203:
orders to misrepresent the facts as Cicero's HOGD Inc. has seen fit to do so, and in so doing is wilfully and deliberately misleading the general public. These misrepresentations, such as the aforementioned instance surrounding Cicero’s own lies, will obviously have to be edited to represent the truth, otherwise other orders will be forced to provide contradictory evidence to correct Cicero’s lies and other misrepresentations.
290:
historical record that comes from outside reputable sources. Either you still don't understand this, or you're simply trying to argue your way around it to get what you want. If you want to change what's reported in
Wikipeida, go change what's in the verifiable sources. Go write a book manuscript, submit it to reputable publishing houses, and get it published by one of them. Then you can use it in a Knowledge (XXG) article.
1293:. About self-published sources, which includes books published by vanity presses, and personal websites, it says: "Sources of dubious reliability are sources with a poor reputation for fact-checking, or with no fact-checking facilities or editorial oversight..." Also, "Posts to bulletin boards and Usenet, wikis or messages left on blogs, are never acceptable as primary or secondary sources."
304:
nothing more. If, for example, there are references to specific information, such as dates, that come from books by reputable publishers, that information can be used in an article about the specific group or person it refers to. If those sources should happen to be incorrect, then
Knowledge (XXG) will also be incorrect, but that's how Knowledge (XXG) works.
1319:
be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons."
649:
they are the only faction that follows those changes. Therefore, it is inappropriate for inclusion in a general purpose encyclopedia article, especially when accompanied by multiple references to their own group by name, and its unique, non-mainstream doctrines. Please read and understand the
Knowledge (XXG) Guidelines on
585:
just another edit-war being perpetrated by what seems to be a single person from a single contentious faction operating under multiple sock-puppets. This person seems determined to drive every article about the Golden Dawn on
Knowledge (XXG) into an edit war, even when the other person sympathetic to his organization (
373:.) So, the article uses qualifiers, "According to their website..." and then gives a capsule description of what the group says about themselves. But ONLY material from their website that refers TO themselves. You can't use material that refers to one group in the article about a different group. See the policy on
1318:
says: "Be careful not to err too far on the side of not upsetting other editors by leaving unsourced information in articles for too long, or at all in the case of information about living people. Jimmy Wales (Knowledge (XXG) founder) has said of this: "I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to
1240:
Mr. Cicero is also a widely published author in that circle of "expert sources". He tends to agree with them in his own books. In other words, he accepts the mainstream account, but he's not the only one who describes the history and the structure of the Order the way he does. It's not a "faction". A
1157:
Historical evidence indicates that Count
Apponyi, who initiated Kenneth MacKenzie in Austria, was actually a member of this secretive order and that it was from these Secret Chiefs that MacKenzie obtained the Golden Dawn's original Cypher Manuscripts for the Golden Dawn's first or 'outer' order. S.L.
742:
When the edited version of an article repeatedly mentions one particular faction and it's leaders and offers that faction's version as the "authentic" version, that is not neutral. That material belongs in the article about that group. And once again, there is no "OSOGD" faction. There is only me. No
648:
A large swath of information was added to the article that expounded the unique POV of one faction of the Golden Dawn, that of the HOGD/A+O. It was completely undocumented; the changes they made to their own curriculum and structure are NOT universal or described in any reputable, third-party source;
1502:
SRIA. So put your information in the SRIA article, not here. I've pointed out at length what is unsourced in the material you keep adding to the article, none of which comes from one short article by Bruce Wilson. You don't deny it's unsourced, you simply repeat your claims of my personal bias. Show
1444:
a respected, well-published author in the field, working for major publishing houses with fact-checking departments and editorial oversight. As such, his writing is an acceptable source for
Knowledge (XXG). Whether you think what he wrote is true or not doesn't matter. It's a source citation, and it
438:
User 999 is malisciously and repeatedly editing the page of the
Rosicrucian Order of A+O, in violation of the compromise reached by Knowledge (XXG) moderator T. Morton in the discussion of modern Golden Dawn based groups concerning the article The Golden Dawn Tradition. He has been reported for this
1527:
For example, one of the claims of the OSOGD on it's website is that they regard the work of
Crowley as a direct extension of the Golden Dawn. On their website, they call Thelema "Golden Dawn 2.0". This is a controversial claim. Do you see me or anyone trying to edit this claim into the article? No.
1213:
Look, I'm asking with all due respect and sincerity, let's find a way to resolve this. You realize we can't have endless edit war. If it means everything in the article has to be cited, so be it. I would help with such a project, if that what it takes. But everything I ever put in the article comes
838:
The conflict caused by pro-Cicero users 999, Zos, and Cicero
Lisencee JMax555 on the Golden Dawn Tradition, then on the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (Rosicrucian Order of A+O) page has spilled over to this page as well as onto the Heremetic Order of the Golden Dawn main page as well. 999, Zos,
584:
Thanks to the administration for semi-protecting this article. The "Sodalitas Rosae Crucis et Solis Alati" is a licensee of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn Inc. and, according to their website, teaches the Golden Dawn curriculum as required by that license, so they belong in the list. This is
289:
Knowledge (XXG) is not a forum for you or your organization to preach "truth" to the public. It is not here for you to provide "contradictory evidence". Wikipeida is not a courtroom of public opinion. Wikipeida is not a place to correct the historical record. It only reports the previously existing
1288:
any of this stuff. It's all from their own website and discussion forums. I've asked and asked for real references, sources and cites, because I'd really like to know. I've been asking for years now, and have never gotten much of anything that can be verified. So I'm very much opposed to including
851:
Let me try to explain it to you again. If the "pro-Cicero" (whatever that means) account of the history of the Order, and it's structure and origins, also happens to be the mainstream account, published many times in books by reliable publishing houses, then that is the Knowledge (XXG) version. If
699:
JMAX, please discuss creating entirely different articles on this page. Furthermore, please discontinue slanting this article towards your own "self-serving" motives and your own particular faction. It has become more and more obvious that you and your friends are slanting this article to your own
667:
I also reverted the changes that claim the membership documents of the SRIA were forged. Again, this is a part of the "mythology" of one and only one faction of the GD, not the mainstream account as published by reliable GD historians such as Darcy Kuntz and R.A. Gilbert. If there is any reliable,
190:
The sub-sections addition is a valuable addition to the article as the reader can now achieve the full scope and comprehension of what roles and developments that have been made in the GD tradition, by contemporary orders, in proper context with the article and the historical facts. The links and
1336:
Edits that describe at length any members of the HOGD/A+O it should be in their article, not the main article. The additions gave the article more text about David Griffin than it has about Israel Regardie. That's absurd. There's no way that could be considered "neutral", unless you want to put a
1178:
The one fifty-year old short article containing sheer specualtion in a document that can't be easily obtianed is not a reliable third-party source. And the article cited says NOTHING about the HOGD/A+O, Secret Chiefs, new (or old) Cipher manuscripts, a three-order system "originally envisoned" or
681:
And further, I removed the reference claiming that the GD temple of the HOGD/A+O in Paris is the "revival" of Mathers' original Lodge No. 7, except in name only. Again, only one faction of the GD believes this, and unless they can offer as evidence a charter document signed by Mathers or his wife
303:
What you think is "proper" or "rightful" isn't relevant to anything here. There is no guideline for "proper" in Knowledge (XXG). There is no guideline for "rightful" in Knowledge (XXG). What is a "historical fact" in Knowledge (XXG) is only what is verifiabile under the guidelines, and absolutely
1501:
about the HOGD/A+O, because it didn't exist fifty years ago. Where does Bruce Wilson say that the HOGD/A+O "received the Solar Mysteries of the Third Order, together with the Cypher Manuscripts for the Third Order initiation rituals from the Secret Chiefs in 2002"? He doesn't. He wrote about the
1258:
But among that circle of academic, mainstream published authors, none of them gives Mr. Griffin's claims any mention. If you've got sources that do, use them. Please! But it's a revisionist history that essentially involves conspiracies, cover-ups, forgeries, underground secret societies with no
332:
really are. If you report something that can't be sourced under the guidleines, it's just anonymous tesitimony. You have no accountability, no editorial oversight, there's no way to verify if you're an expert in the field you're writing about. But if you stick ONLY to what you find in reputable,
213:
The solution to this problem is to leave the article with the sub-sections so at least there’s a modicum amount of truth left to prevail in the article. Then at least the article is represented in clear and proper context, and readers will be aware of the facts surrounding the tradition and the
1059:
Analogical operative systems are thus called lunar mysteries as, much as the moon reflects the light of the Sun, their light is reflected by analogical reference to higher operative processes. Nonetheless, despite her reflective nature, the moon indeed remains a luminary. So also the analogical
202:
These separate links to the various orders pages are sure to be profaned in a defamatory and misleading tone by Users 999 and JMAX555, as the last article was. And I might add in the usual harassing, opportunist and unprincipled manner. The separate links give a free dispensation to all other
196:
The separate links and orders own pages are furthermore open to corruption, and blatant misrepresentations such as Cicero having established a Golden Dawn temple in 1977, when he clearly did not. It wasn’t until after Patricia Behman had introduced Cicero in the early 1980’s to Regardie, until
155:
We need articles on Florence Farr and Pamela Coleman Smith! Farr was a renowned actress in her day, the partner of Yeats on many projects, and Smith is of course the artist who created the most famous Tarot deck of all time. They certainly deserve their own articles. If only I had the time... -
1382:
That you, Mr. Max, regarding the history prefer secondary to primary sources published by the SRIA itself merely proves that you are not seriously interested in verifiability, but use it merely as an excuse to push a pro-Cicero party propaganda line. As a Cicero lisencee, you are certainly not
861:
This debate has gone on for months now. It carried over to discussion forums outside Knowledge (XXG). I asked many times, on their own forum, if anyone at the HOGD/A+O could offer reliable, third-party documentation for their unique history of the GD, as well as the SRIA and Rosicrucianism in
1354:
Just gather the verifiable citations for those sections and see what happens. I've tried, maybe you'll have better luck. My feeling is that if you eliminate the unsupportable claims in those additions, the problem will solve itself, because there won't be much left. Please, prove me wrong. -
111:
Is Whare Ra considered a "comtemporary" GD order? Unlike the others in that section, they are no longer active, and haven't been for over 25 years. Is it therefore inappropriate to place them in that section? Should there be another section for "inactive" orders that have ceased operation? -
1470:
So again, in the case of Gilbert, that he belongs to the SRIA is irrelevant. Masons write books about Masons too. You're calling a reputable, accepted source, with several major books on the subject in print, a partisan liar. Wikipeida is not here to provide a forum for conspiracy theories.
184:
The additional “Contemporary Golden Dawn Orders” sub-section, gives the article proper depth and makes the links to the various contemporary orders, much more comprehensible to the reader. They should be included in the article as a matter of fact, to put the contemporary orders, and the
368:
The individual sub-article format works to avoid edit wars, because each one can only contain information about it's specific subject group. And it can only report what some other source has already published under the guidelines somewhere else. (See the Knowledge (XXG) Guideline about
682:
giving them the right to "revive" the Lodge, or any verifiable, third party reference to this being the case, it is again a self-serving POV that favors only one faction. Please don't make these unverifiable, self-serving changes to the article without offering evidence. Thank you. -
460:
There was no compromise "worked out" by a "Knowledge (XXG) moderator". There is no such thing as a "Knowledge (XXG) moderator". Knowledge (XXG) is not a Yahoo-like discussion forum with moderators. There are volunteer mediators and there are administrators. Please read and understand
743:
one else in this discussion is a member of the OSOGD, or ever has been. I have never met any of them, corresponded with them or had any contact whatsoever with them prior to this edit war. They have said repeately they do not belong to any GD group, and you should be assuming
862:
general. They had none. If it existed, I genuinely wanted to see it. I got told, by Mr. Griffin himself, it was "difficult to obtain" or that it was "Order secrets" he could not give sources for. Well, so be it -- that makes it ineligible for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG). -
852:
the "HOGD/A+O" account of the history, structure and origins can't be documented, and only exists on their own webpage and has never been confirmed by any published, reliable third-party source, then it doesn't belong in Knowledge (XXG), it belongs on their own webpage.
879:
And how does what occurs on Yahoo forums have anything to do with the price of tea in china? References have now been included. The article as it stands is well balanced between your faction and another faction. Verifiability and neutrality go hand in hand, remember?
354:
world, not on alt.magick, or your own organization's forums. A neutral source doesn't include anything that was written by a lawyer for one side of a legal dispute between groups. And verifiable is what Knowledge (XXG) says it is, not what you seem to think it
1062:
What does this have to do directly with the subject of the article? It doesn't belong in this article. Who wrote this? We don't know. It's a description of one group's philosophy lifted from the HOGD/A+O website. It's not admissable under Verifiability
1034:
Here, we find not some mere mystical meditation upon alchemical images or psychological nonsense, but rather the supreme esoteric corpus of operative practices that all other genuine magical and alchemical operations only refer to by
839:
and JMax555 are unrelenting in their agenda of promoting a pro-Cicero POV and edit out anything that does not fit in their POV agenda. They refuse to discuss and compromise. Some of us will no longer allow their bullying, however--
140:? I think it unlikely. Perhaps we should just redirect those here as well, at least for now until someone is motivated to write a separate article. I know that quite a few articles have red links b/c those articles don't exist. -
126:
article under the same heading. Perhaps the heading should be changed to "Modern Golden Dawn Orders" ? I guess Whare Ra is mentioned earlier in this article so it could be taken out of the list. I was just following the old
185:
developments made by certain contemporary orders, Into proper context within in the article. This is something that the links to the various contemporary orders own pages cannot do within the proper context of the article.
1111:
In modern esotericism, there exist three types of esoteric orders. These fall into two general categories; symbolical and operative. Among the operative orders, there are those which are analogical (lunar) or direct
810:
There are no published sources for it. If you can fnd a published source that is NOT the group's own webpages or self-published books by members, it's verifable under Wikipeida guidelines and can be referenced. But
1496:
As an admitted member of the HOGD/A+O, you are even less "objective". And my personal opinions have nothing to do with it. You have to demonstrate I'm allowing any bias to infect my editing. Bruce Wilson wrote
1218:
that. It's the mainstream account, and those are the reliably published sources for that mainstream account. You may not believe it, you may think there's a vast conspiracy to cover up the "real truth", but it
793:. It was created months ago, the first time we went through all this, or don't you remember? The information on the Cipher was moved there. You people kept putting it back here with your constant re-editing. -
1085:
Mathers'Rosicrucian Order or A+O today claims to have received the Solar Mysteries of the Third Order, together with the Cypher Manuscripts for the Third Order initiation rituals from the Secret Chiefs in
1088:
Mathers' order died out with his wife. There is no citation or proof of any connection of the current people running a group by that name and Mathers. It's all self-aggrandizing propoganda, And again, no
668:
third-party sources for this specific claim of forgery, or any historical record of initiations of certain persons by secret societies over 100 years ago, please provide verifiable references for them. -
214:
development of contemporary orders in their rightful and truthful manner. Then the information in the orders own pages attainable through the links will at least be more comprehensible to the reader.
1241:
dozen other authors have also done so. Mr. Cicero just happens to agree with them. So you can call it being part of the mainstream, or being part of the vast SRIA/GD conspiracy to deceive the world.
451:
This is not the article about the Rosicrucian Order of the A+O, so why are you complaining here? Who are you complaining TO? There is no "moderator" from Knowledge (XXG) administration reading this.
986:...betrayal of the order by Aleister Crowley, who despite his oaths published the secret teachings of the RR+AC, thus preventing the completion of the entire Three Order system for over a century.
725:
I did not "create an entirely different version", I only removed the sections that had been added that referred to one group and one group only. That belongs in their own article, not here.
236:
As explained to you before, WP rules require seperate articles, since they source information from the various organization's websites, which otherwise is not allowed to be used at all per
606:
I cant believe this. Frater FiatLux went to the admin and asked for protection of the article. He then removed the protected tag. I've left a message on the admin's page stating this.
571:
I've reverted you again. All of the links to other factions of the golden dawn are there for a reason. Please provide evidence that they are not golden dawn factions. Thank you.
222:
User 999, I do not honour your word, so please cease and desist with your threats to my talk page. If you leave any more ill judged comments and harassment I will report you.
191:
separate pages of the various other orders pages are devoid of this value, to put the relevant contemporary orders in an accurate context within the scope of the article.
95:
81:
76:
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59:
1259:
evidence of their existence, and immortal Secret Chiefs. It calls respected scholars in the field deliberate, partisan liars. This is what Knowledge (XXG) means by
1289:
any of this material here in Knowledge (XXG) if it can't be cited. The guidelines on sources says explicitly, "The policy page that governs the use of sources is
100:
901:
First of all, the long multiple paragraphs describing "esoteric orders" don't belong in the article. They belong in an article about eosteric orders generally.
768:
No, you are adding in an entirely new article on the "cipher manuscripts". This was not discussed. Therefore, I will be reverting it to the neutral article.
439:
incident to the administration of Knowledge (XXG) and is encouraged to refrain from further harassment in violation of Knowledge (XXG) moderator decision. -
197:
Cicero had any involvement with a Golden Dawn temple. In fact not even until 1983, let alone 1977, Cicero was an initiated Minerval in the O.T.O. in 1978!
561:
Esoteric770: I'd like to know why you are removing, and rearranging links that are there for a reason. Please discuss before you make another revert.
47:
17:
1010:
The Solar mysteries comprise an operative tradition that lies at the apex of the Rosicrucian as well as the entire Western Esoteric tradition.
539:
462:
391:
274:
1179:
anything of the sort. If there's something to write about the HOGD/A+O's claims, it should be included in their own article, not here.
521:
I'd also like to remind the good Frater FiatLux that this is not "his" talk page. There is no ownership on Knowledge (XXG). Danke.
1475:
Just because others don't agree with your group's beliefs, doesn't mean there's some vast conspiracy afoot to persecute you.
538:
Corresponsdingly, there is no "ownership" of the article about Frater FiatLux/Zanoni666's organization BY his organization.
962:
The Third Order was supposed to place the capstone upon the pyramid, with the operative tradition of the solar mysteries.
1060:
operative systems remain powerful tools for spiritual development in and of themselves, despite their analogical nature.
1449:
article. It's being used in the article about HOGD Inc., where it belongs. So you're bringing it up is a red herring.
1506:
where this bias leads me to put unsourced, unverifiable edits into the article, otherwise, it's another red herring.
1214:
right out of Howe, Gilbert, King, J.M. Greer, M.K. Greer, Zalewski and Regardie. If you've studied this at all, you
38:
1315:
1290:
1260:
1114:
How does the author of these words speak with authority? Who is the author? Why should we believe him? This is
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Please note that each contemporary Order now has their own article. Please don't add the contents of the old
701:
1570:
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1263:, so it requires very strong, verifiable references. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
482:
Zononi666 aka Frater FiatLux, I object to your characterization. I have been editing the article in
508:
227:
486:
attempting to improve it according to Knowledge (XXG) standards. Please take the time to read WP
394:
which is why your uploads of them keep getting deleted. You got locked out because you broke the
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245:
175:
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654:
819:
This has already been done. See Bruce Wilson's article which is available from the S.R.I.A.
1440:
If you're referring to Shuster, that he belongs to a Golden Dawn order is irrelevant. He's
1115:
395:
370:
1528:
It's opinion. It's speculation. It's a philosophy not shared in general by the community.
881:
820:
769:
705:
628:
586:
133:
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410:
Please learn and understand the rules of Knowledge (XXG) and govern yourself accordingly.
261:
FFL: That is not a compromise. That is just changing this article to the way you want it.
241:
1337:
capsule history of every group's leadership into the article, which is also also absurd.
1384:
840:
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137:
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650:
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334:
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237:
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So I am reverting the article again to edit this vast amount of unsourced material.
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794:
748:
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543:
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113:
46:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
744:
1284:
come up with some verifiable sources. But no reliable third party has ever
1037:
Promotes one faction's philosophy as being generally accepted. No citation.
1569:
Zanoni666: Please take this to the proper article talk page. Thank you.
1445:
can be used. But in this case, Shuster is NOT being used as a source in
1280:
I really wish the persons adding these "theories" to the main article
700:
OSOGD faction views. Please read the guidelines on Knowledge (XXG)'s
503:
banned. I'd advise you to just wait until your block has expired. -
747:
on their part in this matter and stop calling them a "faction". -
627:
Sounds like an accident to me (the removal of the tag, that is).
499:
You might also want to be aware that evading blocks can get you
465:
Also please read and understand the Knowledge (XXG) policies on
1536:
accuse me of editing bias into this article. Please point out
25:
312:
specfic meaning in Knowledge (XXG), which you can read about
1137:
You added ONE CITATION to the article, for the following:
938:
The Third Order apparently contains the Solar Mysteries.
589:) managed to work out a concensus with other editors. -
306:
The standard for Wikipeida is verifiability, not truth.
1532:, even if I personally happen to believe it. So don't
657:
before making such large scale changes. Thank you. -
132:
Another thought here, will there ever be articles on
392:
Knowledge (XXG) is not a repository for media files,
337:
outside sources, then it doesn't matter who you are.
1473:Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
328:There's a reason for all this: nobody knows who
1223:the mainstream account. I'm just reporting it.
8:
1530:So it doesn't belong in Knowledge (XXG)
918:The following statements are unsourced:
704:policy before making any major changes.
1261:"outlandish claims beg strong sources"
1118:and is not allowed on Knowledge (XXG).
789:The article on the Cipher Manuscripts
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
18:Talk:Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
1538:how this bias has infected my editing
1417:this is not an article about the SRIA
7:
24:
540:Knowledge (XXG) is not a soapbox.
275:Knowledge (XXG) is not a soapbox.
29:
1419:. It is about the Golden Dawn.
1:
1291:Knowledge (XXG):Verifiability
174:article to this one. Thanks -
463:what Knowledge (XXG) is not.
122:Hmm, well it was in the old
1600:
375:claims about third parties
1574:15:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
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1360:05:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
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824:03:06, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
798:01:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
773:02:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
752:02:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
709:01:26, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
687:22:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
673:22:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
662:22:02, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
632:01:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
611:22:59, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
594:21:22, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
576:19:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
566:19:53, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
547:16:49, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
526:16:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
513:15:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
474:14:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
428:07:05, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
542:Please remember this. -
444:21:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
308:And verifiability has a
249:19:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
231:19:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
179:17:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
161:22:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
145:12:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
117:08:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
350:Reputable means in the
644:More faction POV edits
208:Here’s the compromise:
702:neutral point-of-view
655:neutral point-of-view
172:Golden Dawn tradition
124:Golden Dawn tradition
42:of past discussions.
1316:"Burden of Evidence"
371:no original research
494:guidelines. Thanks.
166:Comtemporary Orders
96:Archived /bad faith
1314:guideline page on
396:three revert rule.
1540:. Be specific. -
1116:original research
557:Removal of Orders
488:assume good faith
101:Archived /whining
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48:current talk page
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651:verifiability
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151:Known Members
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1416:
1415:Simply put,
1402:
1285:
1281:
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1215:
1156:
1110:
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1033:
1009:
988:No citation.
985:
964:No citation.
961:
940:No citation.
937:
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560:
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110:
65:
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37:
1012:No citation
501:permanently
36:This is an
1063:guidlines.
882:Kephera975
821:Kephera975
770:Kephera975
745:good faith
706:Kephera975
629:Kephera975
587:Kephera975
484:good faith
335:verifiable
240:(see also
1385:Zanoni666
1286:published
1089:citation.
841:Zanoni666
333:neutral,
107:Whare Ra?
82:Archive 5
77:Archive 4
72:Archive 3
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1112:(solar).
1035:analogy.
834:POV Bias
492:civility
127:article.
1542:JMax555
1504:exactly
1499:nothing
1357:JMax555
864:JMax555
795:JMax555
749:JMax555
684:JMax555
670:JMax555
659:JMax555
591:JMax555
544:JMax555
471:JMax555
467:editing
425:JMax555
390:Also,
158:JMax555
114:JMax555
39:archive
1442:still
1282:would
1086:2002.
314:here.
242:WP:RS
16:<
1534:even
1447:this
1312:WP:V
1310:The
1216:know
653:and
509:Talk
490:and
352:real
310:very
244:). -
238:WP:V
136:and
90:Misc
1571:Zos
608:Zos
573:Zos
563:Zos
523:Zos
505:999
355:is.
330:you
246:999
176:999
142:999
1221:is
511:)
423:-
507:(
377:.
50:.
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