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nationalist historiography and a lot of it is already on the pages of country-specific historiography, so why only limit it to these odd single sentence examples? I was thinking about adding examples of
Vietnamese nationalist historiography but I think that the subject is too broad, diverse, and multi-leveled (where Monarchists, Republicans, Colonialists, Anti-Colonialists, Liberals, Christian Supremacists, "Pure Land" nationalists, Sinophobes, Sinocentrists, Anti-Communists, and Communists all contributed their own versions and nationalistic interpretations of Vietnamese history). So just adding a single sentence would be
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article) and there is also an implicit bias toward the modernists (Gellner, Hobsbawm, Anderson) and against the 'perennialists' (e.g. Smith). I'd recommend a substantial re-write and will get onto this myself as soon as I find the time - it's a promising initial structure and I applaud your enterprise in getting this article off the ground! -RLM 7pm AEST, 21 September 2009
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fabulous example. If the article is anti-nationalist like you, then it's not neutral is it now? And if you are anti-nationalist I think you should leave Hawaii since whites don't belong there and in fact you should leave
America, the most nationalist country on earth! And leave the rest of the world alone.
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It's not original research; I cited many academics and even an academic conference. Please stop calling me names and insulting me. I'm not going to report you to an admin, in case you don't realize that you're doing wrong, but if you do this again, I will. You can be blocked from editing if you can't
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It's misleading to portray the
Barbarian identity as equivalent to national identity. As multiple scholars of nationalism have stated, it's anachronistic to do so because unlike contemporary national identities, pre-modern ideas of common identity and descent only existed among political elites, not
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Although the emergence of the nation into political consciousness is often placed in the nineteenth century, attempts by political leaders to craft new national identities, with their dynasty at the center, have been identified as early as the late Roman Empire. The
Barbarian rulers of the successor
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Calling someone a "leftist" is not an insult. But I think you're right since examining your edit history you seem nothing like a liberal but the exact opposite, which I think is even worse. My mistake. I think you should read about what
Knowledge thinks about original research and this article is a
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This article has problems and it makes claims about "Chinese, Persians, Russians" that are not backed up with anything. Reads like a bad term paper from an ultraradical leftist. It is just original research and either doesn't belong in the
Knowledge or needs to get rid of all the junk info that has
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In the case of the Geary reference, SteveMcCluskey has provided two different GB links, one that takes you to the 'About this Book' page, and a second link that takes you to page 15, which is where the main Geary quote (included at the top of this article) comes from. I did not find that the links
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indeed, this is completely offtopic. Europeans claiming Greek cultural roots can do so independently of what might be, in turn, the roots of Greek culture. Oriental and
Egyptian influence on Greek culture are widely accepted, it is just usually implied that these elements were essentially refined,
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That section is concerned with cultures claiming ancestry in a vaguely defined mythological past; the passage derived from
Arvidsson dealt with Europeans claiming descent from a well defined historical culture. The issue of possible Asian and African influences on Greek culture is another matter,
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pointer, and probably more stable than a link to a
Knowledge article. No search is involved in returning the result to you. The only uncertainty is whether Google will change its 'About this book' writeup over time. But we already include many links to web sites where the linked-to words are not
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I've added a lot of material based on Geary's recent book. There's a lot more material out there that can be added. I know there are discussions of the rise of Celtic and Slavic nationalism in the nineteenth century, and I presume there are discussions of nationalism in the many former colonial
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This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle, This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, This other Eden, demi-paradise, This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war, This happy breed of men, this little world, This precious stone set in the silver sea, Which
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just reformatted the reference for Marc Ferro's book, removing a link to the Google Books entry, stating in her edit summary "We don't do links to google book searches". A Google Books link has been left standing further down. If you click on the title of Patrick Geary's book, it takes you to a
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every listed country only has single sentence example that don't really discuss any individual nationalist historiography or how biased it is, only that a particular researcher has either wrote about it or planned to look at it. There is a wealth of information written about individual cases of
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The sentence you criticise does state 'resurgence'. It is certainly the case that nationalism has been utilised as a political tool (a noble lie so to speak) long before the French revolution and in places far off from France but the very fact that you associated the political communities that
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The minor point is that anti-nationalism is a default common sense among progressives (I'm one, and I'm doing research into this at the moment). The more substantial point is that your anti-nationalist disposition is very evident throughout the article. You cite Geary a lot (for such a brief
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Knowledge is a collaborative project. People write what they can. In this particular case user Piotrus decided it would be a good idea to set up an initial structure of the article. "By country" is a conventional arrangement for articles on general subjects which have specifics in particular
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I think that this sentence is not totally clear. It was not that nationalism was invisible, but it was nationalistic perspective in viewing and writing history works that was invisible to historians. Such nationalistic perspective in viewing and writing history works is often reffered to as
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states crafted these new identities on the basis of descent of the ruler from ancient noble families, a shared descent of a single people with common language, custom, and religious identity, and a definition in law of the rights and responsibilities of members of the new nation.
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for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life
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I wish I could. Did you know that I have a cubic yard of books to be read sitting by my bed? That I have hundreds of books queued in my Questia account? That I have hundreds of books on my gimmee lists at Powells and Amazon? I think my head is going to explode.
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were tied to each individual search (which was a concern of Steve's); I found that they took you consistently to the right place. So on balance I'm in favor of including the GB link, though maybe one link per book rather than two because of the space issue.
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Persian or Arab or Turkish. I understand the motives of national pride that lie behind those debates, but the fact that there can be such real debates indicates that national identities can be much more fluid than modern nationalists assume.
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100% certain to stay fixed over time. What this is giving you is something like a link to the dust-jacket copy of the book, possibly a little better quality, because it doesn't sound like marketing (at least, not in this case).
577:, and I believe that one is useful. It takes you to Google's own 'About this book' page, which offers a reasonable summary of the book. That should benefit our readers, though I admit the Google Book links do take up space.
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was Iranian. I collected material that wasn't related to Iran, but did speak to a general problem. So I started an article. This could probably be considerably expanded. I'm still exploring the topic myself.
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Sometime ago, after making some major changes, I removed the Original Research template. I have just removed the NPOV template. If anyone still thinks this article is biased, please reopen the discussion.
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I recently changed the Google Books reference to Geary, p. 15, because it didn't work properly. I suspect such links may not be permanent but may be tied to each individual search. That may be why
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I wrote the article and I don't think I'm a leftist. I'm definitely an anti-nationalist, but I tried to keep the article neutral. How about refraining from calling me names? I'll dig up more refs.
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Dang, I simply didn't notice those. It's not me inventing this, I've seen this repeated elsewhere. Basically, we don't want to link to search results. They're not necessarily stable links.
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The eighteenth and nineteenth century saw the resurgence of national ideologies. During the French revolution a national identity was crafted, identifying the common people with the Gauls.
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serves it in the office of a wall, Or as a moat defensive to a house, Against the envy of less happier lands, This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England, (Shakespeare
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FWIW, I think this is an important article that should be preserved as a valuable antidote to the various nationalist debates one finds scattered around Knowledge: e.g., was
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to date. I wonder whether it would be wiser to introduce that new material into this article rather than continue to develop what looks suspiciously like a
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I think that we need a cite for "nationalization of history was essentially invisible to historians," particularly given the social history movement.
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Europeans claiming as their origin Acient Greece (and marginalizing any non-Greek or non-Indo-European influences on Ancient Greece)<ref: -->
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to write about Vietnam as much as you can. And of course, since it seems that you know much on the subject, you may write a separate article,
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and point out nationalistic elements in it. After that (or before that) YOu can add a section here, keeping in mind the guideline '
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Nationalization of history is not nationalistic history, but national history, that only in some cases can be nationalistic.--
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Really? What about England and Scotland. It seems that nationalism was alive an kicking long before the French thought of it.
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I think you're mistaken in calling these 'links to search results'. Here is the full text of one of the Google Books links:
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and a number of other "philosophy of history" articles which all need to be tied together in some way, probably under
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produced these two documents with current geo-political entities show the extent of the historiographical problem.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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As noted above I'm arguing that a fully-qualified GB reference does not return a 'search engine results page'.
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I don't think I'm a leftist. I'm definitely an anti-nationalist, but I tried to keep the article neutral.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070529161723/http://www.umass.edu/wsp/methodology/delusions/antiquity.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070529161723/http://www.umass.edu/wsp/methodology/delusions/antiquity.html
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Would someone check whether that link goes directly to p. 15; if it doesn't feel free to remove it. --
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Is it perhaps worth mentioning recent afrocentric claims over Eygptian and Native American ancestry?
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Sorry, if using in a footnote, then Google Books is fine since it can be used for verification. --
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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nationalization of history. Therefore I am going to add this term to the above sentence.--
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I added that assertion based on the source that I need some time to remember and find.--
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Notice that this pointer includes the ISBN of the book. This is just as stable as a
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I have been arguing with a couple of Persian nationalists who are sure that the
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As it is, I think this article could well be subsumed into a a subsectoin of
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which perhaps could be written up to fit this discussion of nationalism. --
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I've removed the following discussion from the section where it was:
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Linking to Google Books is fine if you know what you're doing. See
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Further, it's a commercial book. Just use the normal ISBN link (
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I propose deleting the following in the "Origins" section:
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countries. Anybody else may expand the article in any way.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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acquiring a new "European" quality, in Greece itself.
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Single sentence example at the "By country" section
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41:Start-class
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368:Copernicus
984:this tool
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674:Stbalbach
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570:User:Zora
372:al-Biruni
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301:See also
990:Cheers.—
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613:Worldcat
447:WP:CIVIL
228:Politics
219:politics
175:Politics
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856:Dubious
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255:on the
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123:History
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1106:Yr Enw
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321:etc..
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658:ISBN
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349:Zora
305:and
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