662:. Just because we have an article titled "Colonial history of the United States" does not mean the United States existed before 1776. Rather, the article focuses on the history of the particular piece of land that existed before the political entity was established. That I personally will not devote the time to write about the history of transport in China from antiquity to the present (which I would if I had plenty of time on my hands) is not an argument for why an article on the post 1949 (or post 1978) history should not stand alone as its own article. The significance of modern infrastructure projects suggests otherwise.--
808:. This is an inadequate article in many ways. It covers the subject only since 1978, with two or three cursory mentions of things that occurred earlier. That's hardly a history at all. But that is a separate issue from the title. The solution is for someone to add material about earlier periods until the article grows to 40K of main text. Then subarticles can be spun out. That's the Wiki way. One of the spun out articles may cover the PRC period, or perhaps editors will divide history up in some other way. There is a lot that needs to be done before that issue arises.
95:
947:
source. There doesn't seem to be a specific reason why the regime of one communist government gets its own page (and I'm willing to bet the page title wasn't determined with the aim of emphasising the specific point), especially one so short. Splitting should only occur if a parent article grows too large. This is the parent history article (just named weirdly because of the name of the main transport article). If it one day become so large that a split of the modern regime is justifiable and doesn't cause excessive duplication,
932:. The main "history of transport" article will have a section on the PRC, linking to this article as the more specific one. Your desire to present "the change of focus throughout history" and "a continuous timeline of each piece of infrastructures growth" would all fit in a general "history of transport in China" article. This doesn't mean we cannot have an article devoted specifically to the recent history (like the article is now), given the pace, intensity, and significant of developments in the recent decades.--
85:
64:
187:
169:
613:, you'll see that most of that article is an overview of the premodern period. I disagree with the assertion that "China may not have had any notable transport to speak of prior to the development of heavy rail and tramways." You might as well assert that "The world may not have had any notable transport to speak of prior to the development of heavy rail and tramways." There are complete volumes, for example by Needham, on Zheng He's treasure ships. --
197:
33:
492:, claiming the article scope is only from 1949 onwards. This is not true: the article is not limited to 1949 onwards and there is no other article on transport in China before 1949 that would conflict with this move. An editor interested in adding details of transport in China prior to 1949 would do so in this article.
631:
they might not have any. If I were going to go into depth on finding details of notable historical transport, I'd rather put it in the actual article than use it to fund an argument on the talk page. If there are notable details of naval transport, by all means they should be included in the article.
946:
In order to do that without weird duplication, the main article would have to have integrated all forms of transport into one narrative. A focus on different forms of transport would be much more appropriate. This article isn't specifically devoted to anything, it seems to be just a copy of a single
527:
with this article as a specific article for a more general topic. That is, start a new article and don't attempt to feed off this one. In any event, this article, as one dedicated to modern history, should continue to exist. No amount facts pertaining to the period from 600BC to 1949 will succeed in
843:
It's not a clearcut issue, but I disagree with Jiang that this is the way to divide the history of transport articles. As it stands, the page has only 15kB of prose, so there's room for expansion. I don't think having articles on the
History of Transport during every period of Chinese history would
630:
seems to suggest that while it wasn't the bustling city it is today, Hong Kong existed in notable fashion well before
British colonial rule. I would also suggest noting the word 'may' in my comment that you objected to. I didn't say China didn't have any notable transport before then, I simply said
913:
This article actually has nothing on highways and roads. Weird. Anyway, I'm unconvinced of the value of having a history article for transport in China up to the 1940s and another one for post 1940s. It seems odd to break chronology like that. If both were combined then it would be easy to present
562:
makes no sense to me as the former would span over 3000 years. The topic is so broad that we would have to delete half the material on this page to give different time periods due weight. What exists now is a full-fledged article, not a stub, so there is no need to mess with it.
577:
Due weight only applies to content that meets our other content policies, including notability. China may not have had any notable transport to speak of prior to the development of heavy rail and tramways. We don't have many 'history of transport' articles to use as a model but
1043:
a full treatment of the rest, in order to explain its lousy state by 1950. I don't even think that's necessary; it wasn't in bad shape because of "mismanagement" or "neglect" but because of decades upon decades of "collapsing empires", "warlords", "world wars", and "civil
893:
891:
895:
897:
523:. Limiting the history of transportation in China from 1949 to the present is a logical segmentation of a very broad topic. If someone wants to write about the history of transport in China from antiquity to the present, they should be using
403:
528:
preventing this article from being focused on modern history. Basically, encouraging editors to "add details of transport in China prior to 1949" to this article would not improve it. If the title is too unwieldy, try
1038:
as the article's unsourced gloss of all 3000 years of some of the most important, extensive, and technically impressive canal construction and management in the world? I don't think so... Maybe as a sourced caveat
862:
There is no need to have a "history of transport" article for every period of
Chinese history, but there should be one for the period 1949-present because of the significance of modern developments. --
1077:
609:
Hong Kong was only formed with its cession to the
British. There would be no need to emphasize the transport technology of the entire Chinese civilization in that article. If you look at the
397:
559:
477:
294:
1026:
even with a source is going to be incorrect compared to footpaths/roads/chariots/etc. Better to just link to the history article detailing how old we know the canals to be.
658:
Hong Kong did not exist as an entity until the founding of the
British colony. It was just part of Baoan County of Guangdong province. The article you cite to is like
1092:
1072:
243:
141:
1067:
329:
249:
822:
If this is your idea, then please propose a rewrite of the lede section to redefine the scope. This article cannot be moved without that being done. --
627:
1097:
1087:
151:
659:
335:
418:
219:
385:
899:. I don't think the current article structure encourages expansion because its focus is so modern. It is better to start a new article.--
1082:
981:
582:
doesn't seem to suffer from the problems you mentioned, even though it primarily deals with transport developments during
British rule.
845:
547:
579:
529:
117:
17:
914:
things like the change of focus throughout history, and present a continuous timeline of each piece of infrastructures growth.
379:
349:
280:
210:
174:
354:
270:
794:
551:
481:
375:
324:
274:
44:
1007:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
453:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
315:
108:
69:
425:
735:
647:
598:
508:
116:
related articles on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
790:
771:
767:
751:
747:
696:
692:
32:
985:
956:
929:
919:
881:
853:
524:
359:
391:
50:
1045:
719:
It is, but it's also wrong. The geographical scope is the same, the chronological scope is narrower.
610:
1053:
789:. PRC is the best, most accurate and most precise term to define the geographical and time scope.
411:
305:
218:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
952:
948:
915:
877:
849:
813:
691:. I agree with Jiang. In addition to that, the geographical scope of PRC is narrower than China.
467:
320:
550:
makes sense as it is only about the late 19th
Century to the present. Having an article on the
1019:
301:
84:
63:
202:
989:
960:
941:
923:
908:
885:
871:
857:
831:
817:
798:
775:
755:
741:
714:
700:
671:
653:
622:
604:
572:
541:
514:
470:
1031:
937:
904:
867:
827:
710:
667:
618:
568:
537:
196:
186:
168:
928:
My proposal doesn't contradict yours. We're not "breaking the chronology". We are using
729:
641:
592:
502:
876:
Would there be enough content in the pre-Modern era to justify two separate articles?
844:
be the best way to divide them. The way to do it, I think, is (in the future) emulate
1061:
809:
464:
998:
444:
100:
933:
900:
863:
823:
706:
663:
614:
564:
533:
489:
192:
90:
488:
and this brings the title in line. This was moved previously but reverted by
722:
634:
585:
495:
215:
214:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
980:
this is a time-limited article, it only covers from 1949 onwards.
485:
113:
18:
Talk:History of transport in the People's
Republic of China
848:, with a summary of each form of transport on this main page.
265:
26:
443:
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
560:
History of transport in the People's Republic of China
478:
History of transport in the People's Republic of China
410:
997:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
1078:
Start-Class China-related articles of Top-importance
112:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1034:, it was often mismanaged or neglected in the past.
248:This article has not yet received a rating on the
462:. This is consistent with other recent PRC -: -->
283:for general discussion of the article's subject.
424:
8:
660:the history of the United States before 1776
530:History of transport in China (1949-present)
762:Right Jiang. I support your position and I
558:also having a more specific article on the
30:
163:
58:
628:History of Hong Kong under Imperial China
746:No. Geographical scope is narrower too.
165:
60:
1093:Unknown-importance Transport articles
1073:Top-importance China-related articles
7:
1030:Despite the potential advantages of
1022:is China's oldest form of transport.
458:The result of the move request was:
208:This article is within the scope of
106:This article is within the scope of
273:for discussing improvements to the
49:It is of interest to the following
1068:Start-Class China-related articles
846:History of rail transport in China
548:History of rail transport in China
25:
580:History of transport in Hong Kong
546:Further comment: an article like
295:Click here to start a new topic.
195:
185:
167:
93:
83:
62:
31:
228:Knowledge:WikiProject Transport
146:This article has been rated as
1098:WikiProject Transport articles
1088:Start-Class Transport articles
231:Template:WikiProject Transport
1:
552:History of transport in China
484:– Main country article is at
482:History of transport in China
292:Put new text under old text.
275:History of transport in China
222:and see a list of open tasks.
120:and see a list of open tasks.
1054:03:21, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
300:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
126:Knowledge:WikiProject China
1114:
1083:WikiProject China articles
990:03:50, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
961:23:27, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
942:19:58, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
924:17:45, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
909:17:15, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
886:11:31, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
872:03:03, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
858:15:24, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
832:03:03, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
818:15:08, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
799:14:57, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
776:10:16, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
756:10:16, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
742:19:36, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
715:11:22, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
701:10:15, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
672:20:05, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
654:03:34, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
623:11:22, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
605:06:29, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
573:05:15, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
542:04:57, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
515:04:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
471:22:15, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
250:project's importance scale
152:project's importance scale
129:Template:WikiProject China
330:Be welcoming to newcomers
247:
180:
145:
78:
57:
1004:Please do not modify it.
791:Jeffrey (202.189.98.142)
450:Please do not modify it.
525:Knowledge:Summary style
1013:
325:avoid personal attacks
132:China-related articles
39:This article is rated
350:Neutral point of view
211:WikiProject Transport
705:That be an oppose?--
611:History of transport
355:No original research
949:it can be done then
766:the move request.
336:dispute resolution
297:
234:Transport articles
45:content assessment
1020:Inland navigation
433:
432:
316:Assume good faith
293:
264:
263:
260:
259:
256:
255:
162:
161:
158:
157:
109:WikiProject China
16:(Redirected from
1105:
1051:
1050:
1006:
740:
739:
725:
652:
651:
637:
603:
602:
588:
513:
512:
498:
452:
429:
428:
414:
345:Article policies
266:
236:
235:
232:
229:
226:
205:
203:Transport portal
200:
199:
189:
182:
181:
171:
164:
134:
133:
130:
127:
124:
103:
98:
97:
96:
87:
80:
79:
74:
66:
59:
42:
36:
35:
27:
21:
1113:
1112:
1108:
1107:
1106:
1104:
1103:
1102:
1058:
1057:
1048:
1046:
1032:water transport
1016:
1011:
1002:
727:
723:
720:
639:
635:
632:
590:
586:
583:
500:
496:
493:
448:
438:
371:
366:
365:
364:
341:
311:
233:
230:
227:
224:
223:
201:
194:
131:
128:
125:
122:
121:
99:
94:
92:
72:
43:on Knowledge's
40:
23:
22:
15:
12:
11:
5:
1111:
1109:
1101:
1100:
1095:
1090:
1085:
1080:
1075:
1070:
1060:
1059:
1036:
1035:
1024:
1023:
1015:
1014:China's canals
1012:
1010:
1009:
999:requested move
993:
992:
975:
974:
973:
972:
971:
970:
969:
968:
967:
966:
965:
964:
963:
837:
836:
835:
834:
802:
801:
783:
782:
781:
780:
779:
778:
760:
759:
758:
733:
684:
683:
682:
681:
680:
679:
678:
677:
676:
675:
674:
645:
596:
506:
476:
474:
456:
455:
445:requested move
439:
437:
436:Requested move
434:
431:
430:
368:
367:
363:
362:
357:
352:
343:
342:
340:
339:
332:
327:
318:
312:
310:
309:
298:
289:
288:
285:
284:
278:
262:
261:
258:
257:
254:
253:
246:
240:
239:
237:
220:the discussion
207:
206:
190:
178:
177:
172:
160:
159:
156:
155:
148:Top-importance
144:
138:
137:
135:
118:the discussion
105:
104:
88:
76:
75:
73:Top‑importance
67:
55:
54:
48:
37:
24:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1110:
1099:
1096:
1094:
1091:
1089:
1086:
1084:
1081:
1079:
1076:
1074:
1071:
1069:
1066:
1065:
1063:
1056:
1055:
1052:
1042:
1033:
1029:
1028:
1027:
1021:
1018:
1017:
1008:
1005:
1000:
995:
994:
991:
987:
983:
982:70.24.244.198
979:
976:
962:
958:
954:
950:
945:
944:
943:
939:
935:
931:
930:Summary style
927:
926:
925:
921:
917:
912:
911:
910:
906:
902:
898:
896:
894:
892:
889:
888:
887:
883:
879:
875:
874:
873:
869:
865:
861:
860:
859:
855:
851:
847:
842:
839:
838:
833:
829:
825:
821:
820:
819:
815:
811:
807:
804:
803:
800:
796:
792:
788:
785:
784:
777:
773:
769:
765:
761:
757:
753:
749:
745:
744:
743:
737:
731:
726:
718:
717:
716:
712:
708:
704:
703:
702:
698:
694:
690:
689:
685:
673:
669:
665:
661:
657:
656:
655:
649:
643:
638:
629:
626:
625:
624:
620:
616:
612:
608:
607:
606:
600:
594:
589:
581:
576:
575:
574:
570:
566:
561:
557:
553:
549:
545:
544:
543:
539:
535:
531:
526:
522:
519:
518:
517:
516:
510:
504:
499:
491:
487:
483:
479:
473:
472:
469:
466:
463:China moves.
461:
454:
451:
446:
441:
440:
435:
427:
423:
420:
417:
413:
409:
405:
402:
399:
396:
393:
390:
387:
384:
381:
377:
374:
373:Find sources:
370:
369:
361:
360:Verifiability
358:
356:
353:
351:
348:
347:
346:
337:
333:
331:
328:
326:
322:
319:
317:
314:
313:
307:
303:
302:Learn to edit
299:
296:
291:
290:
287:
286:
282:
276:
272:
268:
267:
251:
245:
242:
241:
238:
221:
217:
213:
212:
204:
198:
193:
191:
188:
184:
183:
179:
176:
173:
170:
166:
153:
149:
143:
140:
139:
136:
119:
115:
111:
110:
102:
91:
89:
86:
82:
81:
77:
71:
68:
65:
61:
56:
52:
46:
38:
34:
29:
28:
19:
1040:
1037:
1025:
1003:
996:
977:
840:
805:
786:
763:
687:
686:
555:
520:
475:
459:
457:
449:
442:
421:
415:
407:
400:
394:
388:
382:
372:
344:
269:This is the
209:
147:
107:
101:China portal
51:WikiProjects
398:free images
281:not a forum
41:Start-class
1062:Categories
490:User:Jiang
460:page moved
1044:wars". —
890:Yes, see
338:if needed
321:Be polite
271:talk page
225:Transport
216:Transport
175:Transport
1047:Llywelyn
810:Kauffner
465:UtherSRG
306:get help
279:This is
277:article.
841:Support
806:Support
688:Support
404:WP refs
392:scholar
150:on the
978:Oppose
787:Oppose
768:Jeremy
764:oppose
748:Jeremy
693:Jeremy
521:Oppose
468:(talk)
376:Google
47:scale.
1041:after
934:Jiang
901:Jiang
864:Jiang
824:Jiang
736:edits
707:Jiang
664:Jiang
648:edits
615:Jiang
599:edits
565:Jiang
534:Jiang
509:edits
486:China
419:JSTOR
380:books
334:Seek
123:China
114:China
70:China
986:talk
957:talk
938:talk
920:talk
905:talk
882:talk
868:talk
854:talk
828:talk
814:talk
795:talk
772:talk
752:talk
730:talk
724:NULL
711:talk
697:talk
668:talk
642:talk
636:NULL
619:talk
593:talk
587:NULL
569:talk
554:and
538:talk
503:talk
497:NULL
412:FENS
386:news
323:and
1001:.
953:CMD
916:CMD
878:CMD
850:CMD
556:not
532:.--
426:TWL
244:???
142:Top
1064::
1049:II
988:)
959:)
951:.
940:)
922:)
907:)
884:)
870:)
856:)
830:)
816:)
797:)
774:)
754:)
721:–
713:)
699:)
670:)
633:–
621:)
584:–
571:)
563:--
540:)
494:–
480:→
447:.
406:)
304:;
984:(
955:(
936:(
918:(
903:(
880:(
866:(
852:(
826:(
812:(
793:(
770:(
750:(
738:›
734:‹
732:›
728:‹
709:(
695:(
666:(
650:›
646:‹
644:›
640:‹
617:(
601:›
597:‹
595:›
591:‹
567:(
536:(
511:›
507:‹
505:›
501:‹
422:·
416:·
408:·
401:·
395:·
389:·
383:·
378:(
308:.
252:.
154:.
53::
20:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.