2280:. Since then French has continued to expand around Brussels so that in fact Brussels is now more than 80 percent French-speaking and the officially bilingual region of Brussels which on the map is surrounded by Dutch in fact now touches the French speaking region. That the language map has now been frozen means that even if the majority in a region changes (say French speakers start outnumbering Dutch speakers in some commune) that commune remains forever officially Dutch-speaking. So this language map is an artificial construct used for political purposes, that does not reflect and will reflect less and less (until Belgium splits) the actual linguistic reality.
1956:
represent any language border: it shows all of
Flanders plus the present Dutch provinces of Noord-Brabant, Limburg and part of Zeeuws-Vlaanderen (in Zeeland) and Gelderland and even a section of Overijssel(!) as French-speaking (German should have another colour). The French language never reached that far north. As a religion map I agree that it is crude, but as a language map it is grossly flawed and misleading. I still believe in the intention behind the file name "File:Dutch religion map.png", but if it is not a crude religion map, I propose to delete it altogether since, as a language map it is so massively erroneous that it has no place on Knowledge. --
2276:
name) which is now wholly French speaking. In general French had been gaining a little bit the ground lost since the great invastions of 400 or 500 AD. It's not a usual situation if you look at the boundaries between
Romance and Germanic through Belgium, France, Switzerland and the Austrian-Italian border. A final word of caution regarding the Belgian language map: actually the "language" map that I posted is the "official" language map (it's also the only map you will ever find because the Flemish authorities prevent any further census). This is the language map such as it was frozen around 1960
305:
1246:
a summary of the history of
Belgium (and not a PhD on it) would probably not care about "Foreign relations and the Franco-Prussian War" (in which Belgium didn't even participate) or a contract awarded to provide tramways to a minor Chinese city. I know we find these interesting, but we are clearly not the average reader, and this article is not the place for those facts. We really have to be bold here with the scissors, and fork some of the more detailed explanations to their own pages.
31:
787:
the absence of a land route, cargo for the
European mainland couldn't have gone to London instead, and cargo for the UK couldn't be unloaded in Antwerp, even if one harbor was much "better" than the other. It seems more likely that Britain recognized and guaranteed the Belgian independence and its borders to prevent it from joining France, so shortly after Napoleon, and very shortly after the French july revolution. --
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1427:. It already has many and needs more. But like all nations it also needs an overall article that makes sense of the overall history. This one runs about 17,000 words of main text (excluding notes) -- That's about the length of perhaps two chapters in a university history textbook. I think instead of chopping out history here we would be better off adding new material to other Belgium-related articles.
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2381:
this you would get a reasonably accurate map for religions in the
Kingdom of the Netherlands (1815-1830) established by the Congress of Vienna, which included the Netherlands, Belgium and the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg and which ended in that form when Belgium split from the Netherlands in 1830. (To recount what happened to Luxembourg would take us to far. Look up this
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914:
Belgica". You have reversed this, which is actually wrong. Belgium was first, and Gallia
Belgica came later. We also have to be careful about implying that Belgium is in the same place as Gallia Belgica or classical Belgium, and we need to be careful to avoid taking any non-neutral position concerning how Celtic, Germanic or "other" that the Belgae were.--
1852:
importance to the history of
Belgium) The Fusilade of Mons is still there and even has a picture. World War I in Belgium now has a detailed article with the Congo covered (there was no fighting in the Congo & I did not reduce the coverage of the colony--indeed I think it should be expanded) Women's suffrage is still there.
2701:, though the discussion here is more in-depth. Second, as Brigade Piron pointed out, the term means something totally different now than it did at the time, and it's extremely likely to be misinterpreted. Consider for example a reputable dictionary like the Cambridge Dictionary, which doesn't mention the cockfighting meaning
2899:
I guess there is a fine line between broadening cultural experiences and creating sentences people will frequently misunderstand. If cockpit were an archaic word your argument would be a bit more convincing, but cockpit today will mean the place where decisions are made and might be read as referring
2800:
That's not the point. It's a anachronism and even more than that, it's extremely confusing. Cockpit (as in aircraft) makes sense in the context. Basically, you are not getting the message across that you are trying to convey. "Standard across the
English speaking world" - this is immaterial! The fact
1820:
mention of
Belgian territory in China, Women's suffrage, the Belgian Congo in WW1 and The Fusilade of Mons all in a series of edits within a few hours. In my humble opinion, those deserve the place (albeit in a trimmed form) in a much-squeezed article more than this section, which deserves a separate
1746:
I agree that there is no place for historiography in this article. It should be forked in its entirety to another article. I have not seen a single other history article on wikipedia mention historiography. Once again, I'd like to reiterate that this article is NOT to be written for graduate students
1657:
oh yes--when you get to graduate school in history it's mostly about historiography. That is how different historians have given different interpretations to the same historical data and events. People ignorant of historiography falsely assume that there is one and only one "true" history and it's a
1347:
makes it clear that an article should not attempt to cover all the details of a topic if this makes it unduly long. Part of this is to not be "exhausting those who need a primer on a whole topic". If people are interested in a specific period only, then we can fork that into a separate, more detailed
1328:
the
Knowledge rule of thumb " 'almost certainly should be divided' " was written to cover the run of the mill 4 million articles on Knowledge. It was not written by someone familiar with history articles. I suggest that few people read this article from beginning to end--people are instead interested
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Continuing thanks for the work being done on the article, but I do feel that a caution needs to be raised. This article is now getting well above the suggested maximum size for an article, and any quick reading will show that every part and even every sentence is becoming very wordy and trying to fit
2856:
Were we to want to explain it anywhere, "cockpit of Europe" (or something similar) would be appropriate. But if a quote needs square brackets to be annotated, or if it generates serious discussion about how confusing it is, it is probably not appropriate for the lead. On the other hand "battlefield
2841:
Keeping in mind that this is about the lead, if we have battlefield already, why not just leave it at this? Fram's edit seems more appropriate for somewhere in the body of the article. But in general mentioning both terms seems to add very little to the article. I am not sure why it is being seen as
2207:
Basemetal - no-one doubts that this is what the language divides look like today, but as I'm sure you appreciate, there has been a shift over the past three hundred years. Personally, I agree. I also don't think it is useful to use the map in any context since it seems a bit dodgy for all. I suggest
2062:
I think Louvain/Leuven has always been Dutch speaking since late antiquity. French has however been used in the University until recent decades. The existence of a French name Louvain does not mean anything. There are also old French names for places like Londres. This is a well-studied subject, and
1955:
It is definitely not a language map. Whatever the file name, this is a map of the entire Dutch-speaking area, apparently around 1830, since it also includes Brussels plus French Flanders (Dutch-speaking) in the west. Note that Wallonia is not included in the map at all. The red/green divide does not
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article that gives a primer on the topic that's accessible to those who aren't willing to invest the time required to read two chapters of a university textbook? That's exactly what the policy page says should not happen. Those willing to invest the time should refer to the more in-depth subarticles
1245:
Right now we're sitting on 140k, which is substantially more than the 'almost certainly should be divided' listed above. If you print it as a PDF, the prose is 33 A4 pages long. This is simply too much text for the average reader. To pick out a couple particularly egregious examples, someone wanting
1037:
Not necessarily. Maybe a new article would need to be created if there is not yet an article. I do not think Knowledge is over-endowed with articles about Belgium, so if a section here is getting too long, and there is no article why not make a new article with that material and keep a short version
786:
Are there any independent sources for this claim? It seems unlikely that Britain, which was at the apex of its economic and military power at that time, would have felt remotely threatened by a united Netherlands. In fact, the united kingdom of the Netherlands was a British creation. Furthermore, in
2783:
the Longman dictionary that omits the definition is for beginners in English ("Learners' Dictionary" is part of the tritle). All the standard dictionaries use it. More to the point the major current guidebooks use the "cockpit of Europe" term because it is standard across the English-speaking world
1609:
Just to confirm: I notice there are many articles named "Economic history of...". It seems a good idea to me to have one for Belgium, given that you are working on this subject already. I have done this sort of thing before: you can efficiently work on two articles at once in such a situation, main
1422:
the policy was designed for 4 million articles. It explicitly says that it assumes people will read the article straight through and the reader then bumps against a "normal" attention span. That's true for millions of Knowledge articles I suppose but I think this should be designed for readers who
1169:
I understand that everything seems important and valuable, but this article isn't supposed to be an exhaustive list of everything that's ever happened in Belgium. It's supposed to be a high-level summary, and a reasonable length, and readability suffers if we try to include everything on this page.
565:
What is the last country that Belgium was at war with before the two World Wars? The answer I hear most often is .. Germany, during the Franco-Prussian war. This article doesn't mention it all. However, I am far from an expert on that war, and not a native speaker of English either... So I must
510:
This article seem to suggest that the belgae are viewed as almost perfectly Gauls. This isn't true. They were more of a melting pot between German and Celtic culture. With certain tribes claiming to have german blood, and originating from Germanic lands. At least thats what Caesar says in his Bello
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Through a policy of deliberate lack of military spending since the latter half of the 19th century, the Netherlands were in no position to annex any part of a European country. Belgium did try to annex parts of the Netherlands after WWI as retalliation for the perceived Dutch support for the German
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Historians and travel guides use a famous term (for over 300 years). People need to know that. Oreo Priest still has not explained where the confusion comes in -- the dictionary that omitted the term was in fact a beginners dictionary that omitted many term used in Knowledge. I think people come
2079:
I certainly won't argue. I am going from a memory that had the Dutch speaking area expanding to include Louvain, that may have been the surrounding countryside, with Dutch expanding at the expense of French. In any case, I know where Louvain is, and the language border was much closer to it than
1783:
History of Germany has no historiography section, but History of the Netherlands does, you're right. The concern about accessibility is once again a question of length. I have never encountered historiography (about subjects that are not highly disputed) outside of university; as a result, I think
2547:
Some editors think that "Cockpit is a problematic term for any modern audience!" Of course not. It's the standard English term for nearly 400 years and has often been used for Belgium with no suggestion whatever of fighting chickens. I added a RS citation from the standard history of Belgium by
2380:
the whole of Belgium as a catholic area (since Belgium is essentially wholly Catholic) but don't forget the French-speaking part of Belgium which had disappeared from the initial purported religion map. For the Netherlands the data of 1849 should be close enough to the 1830 data. Combining all of
1908:
This map is presented as a language map. However, the file is called "File:Dutch religion map.png" which is also what it is to my knowledge. It shows the catholic south and the protestant north in the Dutch language area (which is the whole area). Some mistake must have happened here. Can someone
1815:
Well, this article has still got to show the chronology and outline the most important aspects of the topic. What I'm afraid you seem to be doing is sawing through vast sections of article in order to justify the historiography section, which is, in my opinion wrong in an article of this scope. I
1473:
I think the policy does apply to this article, and I do not think it is damaging to our coverage of Belgium if we split big subjects up into multiple articles. It is just natural that as things get bigger, they need to be split and carefully structured. So for example a TOC is normal for articles
1260:
As the writer of both of the paragraphs which invoke Oreo's displeasure, I'd just point out that (a) the Franco-Prussian War is the watershed point in Belgian policy in many different areas and led to a crash modernization programme at the end of the century and (b) "providing tramways to a minor
2712:, just that it's so massively likely to be misunderstood by an overwhelming majority of the readership, that any harm caused by paraphrasing a famous quote is more than made up for by the clarity gained. Having said all that, I now think it would be most beneficial to remove the phrase entirely.
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changed but only very little. The most important change is that Brussels that is now bilingual was a wholly Dutch (Flemish) speaking city (this is why in today's language map you see Brussels surrounded by a Dutch area). Dutch was extending as far down south as Waterloo (hence the Germanic place
1692:
Yes, no criticism of the work done is intended by me. Of course I also understand that historiography might be a valid and important part of university courses about Belgian history, but not every part of a study course is part of what should be in a WP article about the same subject. Indeed, no
2725:
No, it is not correct that "any harm caused by paraphrasing is more than made up by the clarity gained"; your version of the sentence claimed that "cockfighting arena" was often used for Belgium, while in reality it was never used. Giving the reader ambiguous but entirely correct information is
2243:
I agree. I do not think it is easy to create a map of religions for this section either. Modern Belgium is basically entirely Catholic (whether or not people are even still serious about religion) and it has been for some time. And even though Flanders once contained many hotspots of very early
1760:
the entire article, including historiography section, is fully accessible to the general public. There are no fancy technical terms, for example. To assume the general public is uninterested in how we know so much about Belgium is a poor argument--I am assuming instead that lots of people are
2769:
was referring to a pilot's area; why would I click through if I already know (or think I do) what cockpit means? I'm sure you're not in the habit either of clicking on every link just to make sure it doesn't mean something unexpected. If 'cockpit' were merely obscure and didn't have any modern
2270:
have been a language map a few hundred of years ago. But no, this can't have been the language map ever since the Franks (who brought the Germanic language into the Low Countries, which were then a part of the Roman Empire) crossed the Rhine, which happened around 400 or 500 AD. Since then the
1314:
of how. If "Belgium was the biggest exporter of rail/tram parts in the world" then that's what we should say, and there's no need to mention a specific contract. The Tianjin concession as a whole is notable enough for at most one sentence in an article on the whole history of the country. This
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can be very hard to edit on some days, leading to crashes and lost work. Nothing is lost by splitting an article that gets too big, and Evolution periodically has "children". Anyway, the other point is that you just have to read the article to see that some of the expansions happening have not
1106:
I'm with Rjensen on this one - considering the importance of the article, I don't think we can afford to cut it without losing valuable stuff. However, I do think some of the more recent (policy on nuclear power, gay marriage etc) doesn't really rank with the Second World War in the History of
913:
Most academic works which discuss the origin of the word "Belgium" really do mention Caesar. This is not just pointing to a famous person. He really does seem to be the origin of the word "Belgium" in the written record. He also did this before there was any such thing as a province of "Gallia
2655:
cockpit to "cockfighting arena": Belgium is "never" described as the "cockfighting arena of Europe" in reliable sources, so writing "Belgium since the Thirty Years' War has often been called the “cockfighting arena of Europe."" is simply wrong and should not be restored to the article at all.
1851:
people want it shorter and so I'm trimming away. The Belgium did not control any significant territory in China so I dropped two sentences that do not claim that anything important happened there (The section was mostly about selling trams to one city in China--that does not make the cut for
1127:
I am not an expert, but I do not think you can just equate bytes per second of your cellphone with speed problems on Knowledge itself. There are presumably many possible transmission and processing bottlenecks? Anyway, I do know from practical experience that long articles such as
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a) are interested in a specific subtopic or b) are serious enough to spend the time they need in perhaps two or three sessions. (That's how people read books, after all. Yes Belgium needs a separate article on many topics--certainly on the world war I (it has one on ww2 =
2330:)....however why then would it include the Netherlands? In any case statistical maps of census data were not invented until the 1860s -- and so this map seems to be from a later atlas. Can anyone identify it? how can we tell if the map in question is copyright or not?
2914:"people will frequently misunderstand" -- that the assumption I reject, as have the popular writers for example of guide books. It's an important phrase because it for centuries sharply defined B's image in the world--and indeed fits Napoleon, WWI and WWII quite well.
2784:
in scholarship, in textbooks and in guidebooks for tourists. People come to Knowledge to learn things and if they learn a standard ordinary definition of an English word, that is progress. No evidence whatsoever has been presented that the word would confuse anyone.
2726:
hundred times better than giving them wrong information, and the ambiguity can be lessened by wikilinking it to the right meaning. Note that while the rather short Cambridge dictionary you link to may not include the meaning used here, it is included in the Oxford one
1725:
Well, I've tried to keep the sections I have written as free of interpretation as possible, just sticking to facts and "significance" rather than "interpretation". However, I'd also point out thathe historians you mention (indeed, the Great Belgian historians) like
1361:
this article covers a small fraction of what a history book would cover--and indeed there are many many links to Knowledge articles on special topics. But I don't think it's unduly long--what is the evidence for that from someone who has actually read the article?
2770:
meaning, we could just link it and we wouldn't have this problem. But Brigade Piron pointed out correctly that it's very likely to confuse because the modern meaning is so widespread and even works in this context, meaning a link won't really get us anywhere.
2805:
have currency. If they come to this page, they want to learn about Belgian history - not archaic sports after all. I would certainly support Oreo's proposition that "battlefield" is used in the lead, and perhaps "cockpit" could be used later on and properly
688:
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on
1400:
Rjensen, I'm not sure why you don't think the policy doesn't apply to this article unless the policy writer has read this article specifically. I have read this article. It took ages, and it was exhausting despite my interest in the subject. That's not
1926:
it's actually the language (Dutch north and French south) map, which historicallly had a sharp line of division. The religion map is much more complicated--lots of Catholics lived in the North . The person who drew the map misnamed it--that is the
1404:
Brigade, breaking it up by time period might be a good idea. I think having a separate article about Belgium in each of the world wars would be a good idea, because there's probably too much detail on those too. It might very well be time to create
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at 10,000 bytes per second --a very slow speed indeed in this cellphone age--it would take about 10 seconds to download an article that would take 30+ minutes to read. So I don't think that's a good reason to reduce the quantity of info we provide.
2048:, which was French in name before WWI and is now almost entirely Dutch speaking, lies at the southern border of the red area. The map probably does represent religion in the historically Dutch speaking areas, but is too confused to be of any use.
1941:
Really? Are you sure? I've seen plenty of language maps that put the language border roughly where it is today; this one shows almost all of modern 'Flanders' as predominantly French, in addition to some regions firmly in the modern Netherlands.
1056:
on the wikiproject's hit-list right?) it needs to be detailed? There are plenty of "History of..." pages on wiki that are very superficial and not worth reading because they do not deal with all the important points in sufficient detail.
954:
Can we take this a read? Quite frankly it would be surprising if it didn't. Though I don't have a better suggestion off the top of my head, the first sentance is really important and, in its present form, it really does not add anything.
456:
Very true. There is barely any time spent discussing VITAL parts of Belgian history such as the school crisis or the splitting of the University of Leuven in '68. ... not to mention that the Congo received a very rosy treatment.
1711:-- yes indeed. the obvious question is how we know it's "basic, impartial and chronological" -- and the answer is historiography tells us. There's no secret book somewhere that has all this impartial history that we just copy.
2826:
an anachronism, it is an accepted current meaning of the word, used in recent books on the subject, and used in recent dictionaries as a normal meaning of "cockpit". I haev tried to rewrite the lead to make it a bit clearer.
1676:. This article is after all mainly for a basic, impartial and chronological history of the topic; few "real" historians would consider writing like this but nevertheless this article should serve as an introduction alone. ---
898:
I did end up putting a lot of his stuff back in too. My version was certainly not perfect, and nor was his, so I'm hoping that my edits turn out to move the introduction closer to something that gets to the gist of it.
511:
Galllico. If noone minds I'll go do some reading and expand (and possibly correct some mistake) in this section. When I find more time and have good sources at hand. Need spelling, grammar and opinions afterwards.
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1984:
PS: it also seems that the map has somehow been projected upon a map with the modern coastlines which would explain the green dot on the coast of Noordoost-Polder in Flevoland. It's the (now former) island of Urk
2842:
such a big issue. (I do agree that the word cockpit will be confusing to even many educated readers. That a term is frequently used is not the only important thing for us to consider. Confusion is never good.)--
3033:
The heading is misleading, it kids the reading into thinking some kind of French population or French traders were present and then massacred. The heading or underheading should instead read something like:
2616:
has a very different meaning to that which it had in the 1640s. Since both meanings *technically* work in the context, the problem is compounded. In effect, even if the viewer knows what both meanings are
2043:
Agreed, this is an odd map of The Netherlands and Flanders, as if they were one unit without the rest of Belgium, and showing red over the entirety of Flanders, which has long been vastly Dutch speaking.
2063:
basically the language border of Belgium and northern France has moved in the opposite direction to what is shown in this map. There are special exceptions, but quite small, and nothing like this map.--
809:
The comment that Belgium recieved no war reperations is incorrect. During the 1920's when the German Government could not pay, a Franco-Belgian force invaded the Saar land to collect what was owed.
2950:
Due to its strategic location and the many armies fighting on its soil, Belgium since the Thirty Years' War (1618-1648) has often been called the "battlefield of Europe" or the "cockpit of Europe"."
2973:
The flag of Flanders normally has a red tongue. If the black-tongued flag is to be called "flag of Flanders", a citation would be needed that it has indeed ever been the official Flemish flag.
1077:
policies is that when an article gets over 100,000 bytes it becomes difficult to load and edit for many people. So it is partly just a practical thing to split up discussion of large subjects.--
2166:
Here is a map of the language areas. Compare with the map above where "French" supposedly extends far into the Netherlands. Again: the first map is the religious map, not the linguistics map.
436:
Does the Dutroux scandal really need to take up this much space? The article is about the entire history of the country, but a significant portion of it is dedicated to a single scandal. --
2548:
Cook. Changing the historic phrase used by hundreds of scholars and current guide books to gibberish about fighting chickens is very bad editing. OI can prove it's current: it's used in
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685:
is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Knowledge policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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3047:
Anyway, it is the lefthandsided boxed inset image showing some kind of 'battlescape' and it reads: "Massacre of the French in Bruges" the 'Massacre of the French' is bluelinked to:
1023:
good point. I'll start trimming. If a topic has a Wiki article then a brief summary is all that is needed; if the point does not have a separate article perhaps it can be dropped.
781:
Aside from political sympathy, a key objective for both the British and the French governments was to keep the harbors of Antwerp and Rotterdam in two separate, hostile countries.
3116:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070614025223/http://www.unrisd.org/UNRISD/website/document.nsf/ab82a6805797760f80256b4f005da1ab/ec506a59176be044c1256e9e003077c3/%24FILE/Deschou.pdf
2591:
Yes, both "cockpit of Europe" and "battlefield of Europe" are common descriptions of Belgium in a historical context. It's rarely, if ever, called the cockfighting arena though.
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The "cockpit" sources are recent ones, not ones from 1640. That the term originated then doesn't mean that it is no longer in use or understandable. You can link cockpit to
1261:
Chinese city" is exactly how Belgium made much of its money; Belgium was the biggest exporter of rail/tram parts in the world which I felt, at least, was worth a mention. --
1235:
If an article or list has remained this size for over a couple of months, consider combining it with a related page. Alternatively, why not fix it by adding more info? See
1277:
I think indeed such things are notable enough to be in Knowledge, so they should of course not simply be deleted, but the article is getting too big, and so please already
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over a certain size. It would be silly to argue that a TOC should be avoided for some subjects because people interested in those subjects have a better attention span.--
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The process that lead to the stablisment of the federalised institutions (Flemish, Walloon, ... governements) is not discussed at all in this section. Quite strange.
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every possible side-issue into every sentence. It looks like a very big draft at this moment. I am hoping that compression will also be part of the editing process?--
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2326:-- perhaps it could be used to draw a more simple and accurate map of religion. the caption of the map says that is based on the 1849 census of Belgium (which is
1306:
Brigade, I find those things interesting, I really do. But we have to be more concise here. Perhaps the Franco-Prussian War content would have a better home at
848:
761:. --09:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC) comment : The image of the Atomium is copyrighted by the monument's creator (architect engineer) therfore it cannot be fair use--
460:"Rumour has that both France and the Netherlands had plans to fully occupy or annex Belgium well after World War I, but these never came to fruition." Source?
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necessarily increased quality of wording. Editing usually makes things both shorter and easier to read, and does not necessarily mean removing information.--
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is that it is the standard term to describe a venue used for cockfighting, which the vast majority of users will know virtually nothing about - and thus
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050905210619/http://www.scientific-alliance.org/pdf/essential_programme_to_underpin_government_policy_on_nuclear_power.pdf
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Yes, the more I look at the religion map, the more problematic it's beginning to seem to me. Wallonia (catholic) is not even shown. I have no idea then
666:, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with
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Although he narrowly won the referendum, the militant socialist movement in Liège, Hainaut and other urban centres incited major protests and strikes.
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it appears that there is no lead article for this. Belgium was a key state in the beginning of the Second World War. If anyone can assist by starting
1052:
I don't know - its true there are a lot of sections, but none are particularly big on their own. Surely for a page of this magnitude (second only to
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2755:
I understand your concern with respect to the quotation. Removing the quotation marks can address this, or better still, we can remove it entirely.
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Oh no--for those people with a few minutes to spend the lede is already a good introduction. It summarizes what they want to know in a nutshell.
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Here is a list of (sub) articles which have been from the text from this article. Please link to them instead of providing long descriptions:
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I think no one is debating the idea of mentioning the idea that Belgium is a famous battleground. But the discussion is about word choice? --
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in a specific period, and perhaps what comes before and after. That will make for a comfortable reading experience for most of our readers.
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side during the war and to improve Belgium's strategic position. In the absence of strong allied support for this plan, it was abandoned. --
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http://www.unrisd.org/UNRISD/website/document.nsf/ab82a6805797760f80256b4f005da1ab/ec506a59176be044c1256e9e003077c3/%24FILE/Deschou.pdf
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I rmoved the citation request dated 2010 for 13 the century cities and replaced it with a link to the appropriate Wikipeida Article--
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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The problem with linking the word is that nobody clicks on a word they already know (or think they know). For ages I thought that '
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Personally I would be in favour of removing the whole sentence actually. I made the changes I did (and I wasn't the first) because:
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the language map. This is the map showing the religious division. Reformed (Protestant Calvinist) in Green and Catholics in Red.
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Most people go to university these days including tens of millions of our users. They deserve help from Knowledge too. (on the
2741:... It seems that you have picked the one dictionary that doesn't include it, and missed all the others that do include it...
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It certainly deserves a paragraph. The issue is not so much how long this paragraph is, but how short the other ones are... --
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or at the graduate level. No article in any encyclopedia is; encyclopedias are meant to be accessible to the general public.
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I believe Rjensen has done an excellent job of that section, but I do agree that it should be moved to a different page, say
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University course will ever fit in one WP article, but we can hope to fit such material into lots of different articles.--
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Also, please let's try to keep the lead free of extraneous detail (dates etc.). It's long and confusing enough as it is.
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484:"In 675 BC, the Belgae were overrrun by the armies of Julius Caesar" : in 675 BC Julius Caesar was not even born ...
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to the EU etc. Anyway it seems unnecessary to use the word if there is an alternative that gets it across easier?--
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here to broaden their cultural experience. The suggestion about using "cockfighting arena" is a hilarious blooper.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070726054327/https://www.openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/1887/2799/1/171_027.pdf
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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that historiography is the most easily dispensable section if this article is to be made an appropriate length.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120402172007/http://arheologija.ff.uni-lj.si/documenta/pdf34/DPVanmontfort34.pdf
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http://www.scientific-alliance.org/pdf/essential_programme_to_underpin_government_policy_on_nuclear_power.pdf
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My omission of other dictionaries was not dishonesty; I honestly only checked the dictionary I use regularly.
2376:. Belgium lies wholly outside the area covered by the map. You could use it though to draw a religion map by
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of Europe" alone gets the point across well, with none of the confusion engendered by the word 'cockpit'.
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I'll have a go at it when I find some time. Though I could use someone proofreading spelling and grammar.
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I did a pretty big revert of content added by Andrew Lancaster, so I would like to explain my concerns.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Dutch in green, German in blue, French in red; the bilingual French-Dutch area in the middle is Brussels
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article will be better with a concise style than with a length that is daunting for the average reader.
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Probably should be divided (although the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading time)
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remain almost totally un-cited in the article. In this light, I'd just question how relevant it was. --
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consider what new articles can be created in order to be a home for some of this material. For example
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https://archive.is/20130115041000/http://www.klm-mra.be/klm-new/frans/main01.php?id=../BSD-FBA/fba-fr
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130104154116/http://www.yale.edu/gsp/colonial/belgian_congo/index.html
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is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under
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it would fill an important gap. There are many good and reliable sources for this topic. Thank you,
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Belgium was neutral until WWI, and di not declare war on any party in the war of 1870. See e.g. here
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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i agree this not a language mapbfor any period. I also doubt that it is a useful religion map?--
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Many people said, long before (in 1945) the strike of July will occur (Gillon, Van den Dungen,
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Predominant language; green = Dutch; red = French (and a small German enclave in east central)
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chicken fighting???? no "cockpit of Europe" is used by hundreds of scholars & guide books
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That's a good idea, it makes a pretty good article already! I've done something similar with
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I understand Oreo. If cuts have to be made, could we perhaps consider creating a sub article
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linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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The revolution should be explicitly mentioned, not just as a vague "series of steps".
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130516024352/http://www.belgiansandthekoreanwar.co.uk/
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Historiography can be worth discussing in WP of course, but is it a notable part of
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when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130812093826/http://hendrik.atspace.com/eng/Bunc.html
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with a false and misleading description. Best to copy the correct description from
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has not been supplied with information about its author by SineBot. A SineBot bug?
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article, the historiography is under #13 "Historians" and #12 "Sonderweg debate").
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where appropriate. This article must become accessible to those seeking a primer.
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579:(in Dutch) for a short mention of this, or here for an indirect testimony to this
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which is clear about it being garrisoned French troops NOT civilians/traders.
3328:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
3138:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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the religious border here. Be nice if I could remember where I saw that map!
1543:(though the article's title is really bad) so that section can be cut also. --
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Proposal: if battlefield of Europe is also a common term, why not use that?--
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I apologize for confusing SineBot and for being confused myself on the maps!
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I am from Belgium and I can tell you for an absolutely definite fact this is
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article is after all mainly for a basic, impartial and chronological history"
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had previously altered the original description of the map everywhere (see
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to Wikimedia commons, hither, and to History of the Netherlands article. --
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that map purports to show. However it's definitely not a language map. Ok
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Missed mention of the independent status of the smaller Medieval entities.
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I'll try and write a short basis for this section when I find some time.
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Belgium - Culture Smart! !: The Essential Guide to Customs & Culture
2266:, let's drop it and leave it at that. But you seem to believe that this
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http://www.klm-mra.be/klm-new/frans/main01.php?id=..%2FBSD-FBA%2Ffba-fr
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etc. We can decide later if this article can be shortened accordingly.
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https://www.openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/1887/2799/1/171_027.pdf
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No need to apologize. I was just wondering what had happened. Cheers.
950:"The history of Belgium stretches from pre-history to the present day"
726:, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the
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http://arheologija.ff.uni-lj.si/documenta/pdf34/DPVanmontfort34.pdf
217:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of
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Protestantism, this was during a period of change, and long ago.--
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that will include excerpts from here and from the articles on the
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There was too much detail on Caesar, and what he said and thought.
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with a correct description and in Wikimedia commons, here and in
2732:, it is included in Longman's dictionary of Contemporary English
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seriously interested in the history of Belgium. The articles on
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Do we really need a section on the Historiography of Belgium in
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Cockpit absolutely is a problematic term for a modern audience.
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That this article is linked to from the image description page.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110226071856/http://www.cicb.be/
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110226071856/http://www.cicb.be/
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on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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2621:) it is not immediately clear which is being referred to...
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Knowledge article constitutes fair use. In addition to the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Traditional religion within the Netherlands and Flanders:
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and specialist, moving long stuff from one to the other.--
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http://www.yale.edu/gsp/colonial/belgian_congo/index.html
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The map in the "Unrest in the southern provinces" section
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Category:Military history of Belgium during World War II
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Needed: Military history of Belgium during World War II
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Hopefully that has made my reasoning a bit clearer.---
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May need to be divided (likelihood goes up with size)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Bruges_Matins_%28massacre%29
859:, which is always rather uncontrollable. Sincerely,
112:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
3332:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
3142:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
851:, there are evidences the Socialist party didn't
693:. If you have any questions please ask them at the
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Fair use rationale for Image:Taal Aktie Komitee.jpg
2693:A bit of context. First, this came up already on
2372:The map you have indicated is a religion map but
714:Image copyright problem with Image:Atomium-sm.jpg
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1590:Please update this list as they are created. --
603:Military history of Belgium during World War II
3318:This message was posted before February 2018.
3128:This message was posted before February 2018.
990:the article is getting very big and very wordy
757:. For assistance on the image use policy, see
2729:, it is the first meaning in Merriam-Websters
1769:have much longer sections on historiography.
849:General strike against Leopold III of Belgium
8:
3420:Knowledge level-5 vital articles in History
2566:Understanding the Literature of World War I
1658:matter of memorizing the official facts.
408:; for the discussion at that location, see
3098:I have just modified one external link on
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2413:. How come that the comment is not signed
932:Made an edit, but keep up the good work.--
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3300:http://www.belgiansandthekoreanwar.co.uk/
3208:I have just modified 9 external links on
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722:is used in this article under a claim of
3465:Mid-importance European history articles
3290:http://hendrik.atspace.com/eng/Bunc.html
2699:Talk:Belgium/Archive_6#Cockpit_of_Europe
3435:Top-importance Belgium-related articles
2574:Rehearsals: The German Army in Belgium,
1227:Length alone does not justify division
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3470:All WikiProject European history pages
3075:Do you really think it implies that?--
891:Habsburg rule is important to mention.
683:Knowledge:Fair use rationale guideline
433:Ctrl+V by 172 Nobody does it better !
336:Knowledge:WikiProject European history
339:Template:WikiProject European history
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316:This article is within the scope of
211:This article is within the scope of
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2708:. I'm not arguing that the term is
2322:there is a much more sophisticated
1585:Belgium and the Franco-Prussian War
1201:Almost certainly should be divided
759:Knowledge:Media copyright questions
526:Federalisation process +/- ignored!
49:It is of interest to the following
3029:"Massacre of the French in Bruges"
2570:DK Eyewitness Travel Guide: Europe
2409:The comment I responded to was by
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3460:B-Class European history articles
3425:B-Class vital articles in History
3212:. Please take a moment to review
3102:. Please take a moment to review
2948:The current text is ok with me: "
2208:we drop it and leave it at that.
1909:replace it with a correct map? --
1441:So you think that we should have
1382:History of the Kingdom of Belgium
1345:Knowledge:Summary_style#Rationale
3430:B-Class Belgium-related articles
3405:Knowledge level-5 vital articles
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356:This article has been rated as
251:This article has been rated as
146:This article has been rated as
3415:B-Class level-5 vital articles
2479:Presently the map is shown in
2324:map of religion in 1849 online
2278:based on data from around 1935
1570:History of Belgium (1939-1945)
1541:History of Belgium (1939-1945)
1516:I'm starting a new article on
1425:History of Belgium (1939-1945)
695:Media copyright questions page
391:History of Belgium before 1830
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3440:All WikiProject Belgium pages
3004:20:12, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
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2342:SineBot did not do its job! (
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664:boilerplate fair use template
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587:14:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
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330:and see a list of open tasks.
231:Knowledge:WikiProject History
225:and see a list of open tasks.
126:Knowledge:WikiProject Belgium
120:and see a list of open tasks.
3455:WikiProject History articles
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728:requirements for such images
709:06:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
691:criteria for speedy deletion
647:Image:Taal Aktie Komitee.jpg
319:WikiProject European history
234:Template:WikiProject History
129:Template:WikiProject Belgium
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1407:Military history of Belgium
1285:Economic history of Belgium
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3486:
3349:(last update: 5 June 2024)
3205:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
3159:(last update: 5 June 2024)
3095:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
2765:of Europe' on the article
2558:America's War for Humanity
2505:I changed it accordingly.
2485:History of the Netherlands
2338:yet there is no signature
1763:History of the Netherlands
1378:Belgian history since 1830
869:22:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
675:the image description page
566:resort to asking for help.
362:project's importance scale
257:project's importance scale
152:project's importance scale
3196:01:53, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
2961:21:46, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2938:20:56, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2924:17:06, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2910:16:58, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2895:16:39, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2866:15:53, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2852:09:35, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2837:08:56, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2818:06:49, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
2794:22:34, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2779:22:22, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2751:20:46, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2721:16:02, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2685:15:15, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2666:08:07, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2643:06:49, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2601:06:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
2586:19:44, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
874:The lead and my reversion
797:08:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
677:and edit it to include a
479:08:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
355:
342:European history articles
288:
250:
183:
145:
78:
57:
3445:B-Class history articles
2554:Encyclopedic World Atlas
2374:only for the Netherlands
1816:notice you have deleted
972:good point; I fixed it.
831:Did the Socialist Party
656:explanation or rationale
464:10:30, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
451:19:59, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
441:07:26, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
132:Belgium-related articles
3201:External links modified
3091:External links modified
2619:which is far from given
1903:No traditional religion
500:14:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
3400:B-Class vital articles
2612:To a modern audience,
2562:Worldwide Destinations
2118:
1905:
1674:Belgian historiography
1518:Belgium in World War I
839:I read this sentence:
742:non-free use rationale
642:
2116:
2029:OK I will delete it.
1881:
658:as to why its use in
641:
388:The contents of the
36:level-5 vital article
3330:regular verification
3140:regular verification
2332:This comment was by
2271:language boundaries
1707:Brigade Piron says "
1343:That's not correct.
1308:Belgian_Army#History
1010:I absolutely agree.
845:Frans Van Cauwelaert
720:Image:Atomium-sm.jpg
3320:After February 2018
3270:http://www.cicb.be/
3260:http://www.cicb.be/
3130:After February 2018
1799:History of Germany
1580:Second Schools' War
1186:Readable prose size
1073:One reason for the
561:Franco-Prussian war
214:WikiProject History
109:WikiProject Belgium
3374:InternetArchiveBot
3325:InternetArchiveBot
3210:History of Belgium
3184:InternetArchiveBot
3135:InternetArchiveBot
3100:History of Belgium
2556:(2002) - Page 52;
2119:
1906:
1767:History of Germany
1575:First Schools' War
679:fair use rationale
643:
597:Hi. In looking at
400:History of Belgium
45:content assessment
3350:
3160:
3071:
3059:comment added by
2979:comment added by
2473:
2460:
2435:
2422:
2403:
2390:
2364:
2347:
2298:
2285:
2184:
2171:
2160:
2147:
1987:Thathánka Íyotake
1958:Thathánka Íyotake
1911:Thathánka Íyotake
1889:Roman Catholicism
1243:
1242:
815:comment added by
502:
490:comment added by
416:
415:
376:
375:
372:
371:
368:
367:
324:history of Europe
267:
266:
263:
262:
162:
161:
158:
157:
3477:
3384:
3375:
3348:
3347:
3326:
3194:
3185:
3158:
3157:
3136:
3077:Andrew Lancaster
3043:routed/massacred
3010:citation request
3000:
2991:
2969:Flag of Flanders
2930:Andrew Lancaster
2902:Andrew Lancaster
2862:
2844:Andrew Lancaster
2775:
2717:
2677:Andrew Lancaster
2576:(2007) ETC etc.
2468:
2464:
2459:
2456:
2430:
2426:
2421:
2418:
2398:
2394:
2389:
2386:
2385:if interested).
2369:
2361:
2357:
2353:
2351:
2346:
2343:
2336:
2293:
2289:
2284:
2281:
2246:Andrew Lancaster
2179:
2175:
2170:
2167:
2155:
2151:
2146:
2143:
2065:Andrew Lancaster
2017:Andrew Lancaster
1947:
1789:
1752:
1695:Andrew Lancaster
1642:Andrew Lancaster
1612:Andrew Lancaster
1561:New sub-articles
1476:Andrew Lancaster
1451:
1414:
1353:
1320:
1289:Andrew Lancaster
1251:
1182:
1168:
1135:Andrew Lancaster
1079:Andrew Lancaster
1040:Andrew Lancaster
1015:
997:Andrew Lancaster
934:Andrew Lancaster
916:Andrew Lancaster
904:
882:General phrasing
827:
740:That there is a
654:but there is no
536:Yes indeed. Be
485:
430:
429:
425:
407:
385:
384:
378:
344:
343:
340:
337:
334:
333:European history
313:
308:
307:
306:
297:
290:
289:
284:
280:European history
276:
269:
239:
238:
237:history articles
235:
232:
229:
208:
203:
202:
201:
192:
185:
184:
179:
171:
164:
134:
133:
130:
127:
124:
103:
98:
97:
96:
87:
80:
79:
74:
66:
59:
42:
33:
32:
25:
24:
16:
3485:
3484:
3480:
3479:
3478:
3476:
3475:
3474:
3390:
3389:
3378:
3373:
3341:
3334:have permission
3324:
3218:this simple FaQ
3203:
3188:
3183:
3151:
3144:have permission
3134:
3108:this simple FaQ
3093:
3031:
3012:
2998:
2974:
2971:
2860:
2806:explained...---
2773:
2715:
2545:
2466:
2457:
2428:
2419:
2396:
2387:
2359:
2355:
2349:
2344:
2334:
2331:
2291:
2282:
2177:
2168:
2153:
2144:
1945:
1904:
1901:
1891:
1876:
1787:
1750:
1634:
1563:
1522:Rape of Belgium
1514:
1449:
1412:
1351:
1318:
1249:
1162:
1013:
992:
952:
902:
876:
837:
810:
807:
805:War Reperations
778:
716:
636:
595:
563:
528:
508:
431:
427:
423:
421:
420:
403:
382:
341:
338:
335:
332:
331:
309:
304:
302:
282:
236:
233:
230:
227:
226:
204:
199:
197:
177:
131:
128:
125:
122:
121:
99:
94:
92:
72:
43:on Knowledge's
40:
30:
12:
11:
5:
3483:
3481:
3473:
3472:
3467:
3462:
3457:
3452:
3447:
3442:
3437:
3432:
3427:
3422:
3417:
3412:
3407:
3402:
3392:
3391:
3368:
3367:
3360:
3313:
3312:
3304:Added archive
3302:
3294:Added archive
3292:
3284:Added archive
3282:
3274:Added archive
3272:
3264:Added archive
3262:
3254:Added archive
3252:
3244:Added archive
3242:
3234:Added archive
3232:
3224:Added archive
3202:
3199:
3178:
3177:
3170:
3123:
3122:
3114:Added archive
3092:
3089:
3088:
3087:
3030:
3027:
3011:
3008:
3007:
3006:
2970:
2967:
2966:
2965:
2964:
2963:
2946:
2945:
2944:
2943:
2942:
2941:
2940:
2882:
2881:
2880:
2879:
2878:
2877:
2876:
2875:
2874:
2873:
2872:
2871:
2870:
2869:
2868:
2759:
2756:
2735:, in MacMillan
2691:
2673:
2672:
2671:
2670:
2669:
2668:
2626:
2625:
2622:
2609:
2608:
2607:
2606:
2544:
2541:
2540:
2539:
2538:
2537:
2536:
2535:
2534:
2533:
2532:
2531:
2530:
2529:
2528:
2527:
2407:
2320:
2319:
2318:
2317:
2316:
2315:
2314:
2313:
2312:
2311:
2310:
2309:
2308:
2307:
2306:
2305:
2304:
2303:
2302:
2205:
2204:
2203:
2202:
2201:
2200:
2199:
2198:
2197:
2196:
2195:
2194:
2193:
2192:
2191:
2190:
2189:
2188:
2164:
2111:
2110:
2109:
2108:
2107:
2106:
2105:
2104:
2103:
2102:
2101:
2100:
2099:
2098:
2097:
2096:
2095:
2094:
2093:
2092:
2004:
2003:
2002:
2001:
2000:
1999:
1998:
1997:
1975:
1974:
1973:
1972:
1971:
1970:
1969:
1968:
1902:
1892:
1887:
1885:
1875:
1872:
1871:
1870:
1869:
1868:
1867:
1866:
1865:
1864:
1849:
1848:
1847:
1846:
1845:
1844:
1843:
1842:
1841:
1840:
1839:
1838:
1837:
1836:
1835:
1633:
1626:
1625:
1624:
1623:
1622:
1588:
1587:
1582:
1577:
1572:
1562:
1559:
1558:
1557:
1513:
1510:
1509:
1508:
1507:
1506:
1505:
1504:
1503:
1502:
1501:
1500:
1499:
1498:
1497:
1496:
1495:
1494:
1493:
1492:
1491:
1490:
1489:
1488:
1487:
1486:
1402:
1281:
1280:
1279:
1278:
1241:
1240:
1237:Knowledge:Stub
1233:
1229:
1228:
1225:
1221:
1220:
1217:
1212:
1211:
1208:
1203:
1202:
1199:
1194:
1193:
1188:
1180:
1179:
1178:Rule of thumb:
1160:
1159:
1158:
1157:
1156:
1155:
1154:
1153:
1152:
1151:
1150:
1149:
1148:
1147:
1146:
1145:
991:
988:
987:
986:
985:
984:
951:
948:
947:
946:
945:
944:
927:
926:
896:
895:
892:
889:
886:
883:
875:
872:
857:General strike
836:
829:
806:
803:
801:
785:
777:
776:Key Objective?
774:
751:
750:
749:
748:
745:
715:
712:
701:BetacommandBot
635:
632:
594:
591:
590:
589:
562:
559:
544:
543:
542:
541:
527:
524:
507:
504:
482:
481:
454:
453:
419:
417:
414:
413:
386:
374:
373:
370:
369:
366:
365:
358:Mid-importance
354:
348:
347:
345:
328:the discussion
315:
314:
298:
286:
285:
283:Mid‑importance
277:
265:
264:
261:
260:
253:Mid-importance
249:
243:
242:
240:
223:the discussion
210:
209:
206:History portal
193:
181:
180:
178:Mid‑importance
172:
160:
159:
156:
155:
148:Top-importance
144:
138:
137:
135:
118:the discussion
105:
104:
101:Belgium portal
88:
76:
75:
73:Top‑importance
67:
55:
54:
48:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
3482:
3471:
3468:
3466:
3463:
3461:
3458:
3456:
3453:
3451:
3448:
3446:
3443:
3441:
3438:
3436:
3433:
3431:
3428:
3426:
3423:
3421:
3418:
3416:
3413:
3411:
3408:
3406:
3403:
3401:
3398:
3397:
3395:
3388:
3387:
3382:
3377:
3376:
3365:
3361:
3358:
3354:
3353:
3352:
3345:
3339:
3335:
3331:
3327:
3321:
3316:
3311:
3307:
3303:
3301:
3297:
3293:
3291:
3287:
3283:
3281:
3277:
3273:
3271:
3267:
3263:
3261:
3257:
3253:
3251:
3247:
3243:
3241:
3237:
3233:
3231:
3227:
3223:
3222:
3221:
3219:
3215:
3211:
3206:
3200:
3198:
3197:
3192:
3187:
3186:
3175:
3171:
3168:
3164:
3163:
3162:
3155:
3149:
3145:
3141:
3137:
3131:
3126:
3121:
3117:
3113:
3112:
3111:
3109:
3105:
3101:
3096:
3090:
3086:
3082:
3078:
3074:
3073:
3072:
3070:
3066:
3062:
3058:
3052:
3051:
3045:
3044:
3040:
3038:
3028:
3026:
3025:
3021:
3017:
3009:
3005:
3002:
3001:
2994:
2993:
2992:
2990:
2986:
2982:
2978:
2968:
2962:
2958:
2954:
2951:
2947:
2939:
2935:
2931:
2927:
2926:
2925:
2921:
2917:
2913:
2912:
2911:
2907:
2903:
2898:
2897:
2896:
2892:
2888:
2883:
2867:
2864:
2863:
2855:
2854:
2853:
2849:
2845:
2840:
2839:
2838:
2834:
2830:
2825:
2821:
2820:
2819:
2815:
2811:
2810:
2809:Brigade Piron
2804:
2799:
2798:
2797:
2796:
2795:
2791:
2787:
2782:
2781:
2780:
2777:
2776:
2768:
2764:
2760:
2757:
2754:
2753:
2752:
2748:
2744:
2740:
2737:
2734:
2731:
2728:
2724:
2723:
2722:
2719:
2718:
2711:
2707:
2704:
2700:
2696:
2692:
2689:
2688:
2687:
2686:
2682:
2678:
2667:
2663:
2659:
2654:
2650:
2646:
2645:
2644:
2640:
2636:
2635:
2634:Brigade Piron
2630:
2629:
2628:
2627:
2623:
2620:
2615:
2611:
2610:
2604:
2603:
2602:
2598:
2594:
2590:
2589:
2588:
2587:
2583:
2579:
2575:
2571:
2567:
2563:
2559:
2555:
2551:
2542:
2526:
2522:
2518:
2514:
2511:
2508:
2504:
2503:
2502:
2498:
2494:
2490:
2486:
2482:
2478:
2477:
2476:
2471:
2463:
2454:
2453:
2452:
2448:
2444:
2440:
2439:
2438:
2433:
2425:
2416:
2412:
2408:
2406:
2401:
2393:
2384:
2379:
2375:
2371:
2370:
2367:
2362:
2352:
2341:
2337:
2329:
2325:
2321:
2301:
2296:
2288:
2279:
2274:
2269:
2265:
2264:Brigade Piron
2261:
2257:
2256:
2255:
2251:
2247:
2242:
2241:
2240:
2239:
2238:
2237:
2236:
2235:
2234:
2233:
2232:
2231:
2230:
2229:
2228:
2227:
2226:
2225:
2224:
2223:
2222:
2221:
2217:
2213:
2212:
2211:Brigade Piron
2187:
2182:
2174:
2165:
2163:
2158:
2150:
2141:
2137:
2136:
2135:
2134:
2133:
2132:
2131:
2130:
2129:
2128:
2127:
2126:
2125:
2124:
2123:
2122:
2121:
2120:
2115:
2091:
2087:
2083:
2078:
2077:
2076:
2075:
2074:
2070:
2066:
2061:
2060:
2059:
2055:
2051:
2047:
2042:
2041:
2040:
2036:
2032:
2028:
2027:
2026:
2022:
2018:
2014:
2013:
2012:
2011:
2010:
2009:
2008:
2007:
2006:
2005:
1996:
1992:
1988:
1983:
1982:
1981:
1980:
1979:
1978:
1977:
1976:
1967:
1963:
1959:
1954:
1953:
1952:
1949:
1948:
1940:
1939:
1938:
1934:
1930:
1925:
1924:
1923:
1922:
1921:
1920:
1916:
1912:
1899:
1895:
1894:Protestantism
1890:
1884:
1880:
1873:
1863:
1859:
1855:
1850:
1834:
1830:
1826:
1825:
1824:Brigade Piron
1819:
1814:
1813:
1812:
1808:
1804:
1800:
1796:
1795:
1794:
1791:
1790:
1782:
1781:
1780:
1776:
1772:
1768:
1764:
1759:
1758:
1757:
1754:
1753:
1745:
1744:
1743:
1739:
1735:
1734:
1733:Brigade Piron
1729:
1728:Henri Pirenne
1724:
1723:
1722:
1718:
1714:
1710:
1706:
1705:
1704:
1700:
1696:
1691:
1690:
1689:
1685:
1681:
1680:
1679:Brigade Piron
1675:
1671:
1670:
1669:
1665:
1661:
1656:
1655:
1654:
1653:
1652:
1651:
1647:
1643:
1639:
1631:
1627:
1621:
1617:
1613:
1608:
1607:
1606:
1605:
1604:
1603:
1599:
1595:
1594:
1593:Brigade Piron
1586:
1583:
1581:
1578:
1576:
1573:
1571:
1568:
1567:
1566:
1560:
1556:
1552:
1548:
1547:
1546:Brigade Piron
1542:
1538:
1537:
1536:
1535:
1531:
1527:
1523:
1519:
1511:
1485:
1481:
1477:
1472:
1471:
1470:
1466:
1462:
1458:
1457:
1456:
1453:
1452:
1444:
1440:
1439:
1438:
1434:
1430:
1426:
1421:
1420:
1419:
1416:
1415:
1408:
1403:
1399:
1398:
1397:
1393:
1389:
1388:
1387:Brigade Piron
1383:
1379:
1375:
1374:
1373:
1369:
1365:
1360:
1359:
1358:
1355:
1354:
1346:
1342:
1341:
1340:
1336:
1332:
1327:
1326:
1325:
1322:
1321:
1313:
1309:
1305:
1304:
1303:
1302:
1301:
1300:
1299:
1298:
1294:
1290:
1286:
1276:
1275:
1274:
1270:
1266:
1265:
1264:Brigade Piron
1259:
1258:
1257:
1256:
1253:
1252:
1238:
1234:
1231:
1230:
1226:
1223:
1222:
1218:
1214:
1213:
1209:
1205:
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2999:Oreo Priest
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2774:Oreo Priest
2716:Oreo Priest
2697:, see also
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1788:Oreo Priest
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1319:Oreo Priest
1250:Oreo Priest
1014:Oreo Priest
903:Oreo Priest
811:—Preceding
732:explanation
486:—Preceding
405:its history
3394:Categories
3381:Report bug
3191:Report bug
3061:5.68.32.34
1191:What to do
755:FairuseBot
718:The image
394:page were
3364:this tool
3357:this tool
3174:this tool
3167:this tool
2710:incorrect
2649:Cockfight
2517:Pp.paul.4
2493:Pp.paul.4
2462:Basemetal
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2173:Basemetal
2149:Basemetal
1898:Calvinist
1640:itself?--
1512:Great War
1409:as well.
1130:Evolution
39:is rated
3370:Cheers.—
3180:Cheers.—
3057:unsigned
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540:: do it!
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