534:*ahem* now that I've countered your argument point-by-point :-) note that debate on keep/delete/merge is on the WP:VFD subpage listed at the top of the article. I created this article as part of a gradual project of improving the New Orleans/Hurricane Katrina related coverage, and IMO an article on Cindy is an important part of it. The effects in the New Orleans area alone are important background for understanding events and actions of hundreds of thousands of people and historic incidents which have recieved international attention. (This article already has more information not duplicated elsewhere in Knowledge (XXG) than, say, the
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nowhere. And little tedious facts are not helpful. If a student wouldn't find it useful in a thorough college paper, it shouldn't be here. There are tons and tons of storms like this that don't have articles and if we created ones for them all (they surely number over 100), Knowledge (XXG) would be an indescrimiante collection of information, which is against
Knowledge (XXG) policy. I don't see how it could be any clearer than that. If you have a problem with merging this one, you have a problem with Knowledge (XXG) policy. Go whine there. Sorry I'm being gruff but this is getting ridiculous. --
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everyone's minds as
Katrina approached (the mess left by Cindy was still mentioned as late as a week before Katrina annihilated my area). This storm should have an article... heck, if I had more time, I was planning on creating this article myself! We just need to put in a bit more research on how extensive its impact was... Now an article on Arlene, which I noticed was recently deleted... now that was not notable at all... Cindy was notable... Keep the article. Hey, if we can have an article on
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567:. Odette was in December, outside of hurricane season! That is what made Odette highly notable. Also that caused considerably more damage than Cindy did considering its area affected. Like Arlene, this storm did NOT have the damage of Ophelia (nowhere near the $ 800M estimated), the death toll of Alpha (nowhere near 26) or the notability of Vince (it was in an area where such storms were common). Cindy did little to create the Katrina disaster...
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Completely agreed. This, Arlene, and many of the other storms could simple be condensed on the main article. Who cares about the loss of information? This is an encyclopedia, not a weather encyclopedia but just an encyclopedia. I understand that it is fairly current so there would be more interest in
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Agreed for merge. The storm is not notable. Some damage and flooding occurrs in any landfalling tropical cyclone. Why doesn't Barry in 2001 have its own article, which caused 2 direct deaths and 7 indirects, with $ 30 million in damage? What about Hanna in 2002 which killed3 and caused $ 20 million
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Um, Eric the $ 40 million figure is the damage from that tornado in
Atlanta, not TS Cindy itself. Irrespective of whether this article should remain in the long term or not; now it exists it should stay until after the TCR is published and there is actual information on the damage and other issues
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Isnt the point of wikipedia to have as much information as possible? and there is a lot more information in this article than the season article. Obviously there would be no point making articles on some hurricanes, like Nate, but if someone did make one on Nate then, as long as it has more info
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You can't just put in whatever information you want. What does this article have to offer that the main one doesn't? Longer sentences that describe the same exact event with little additional info. ...Aside from Joey's grandma's cat getting trapped in a tree by floodwaters. Redundancy gets you
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Tropical Storm Cindy was a notable storm, but very much overshadowed by the many monsters that followed. This storm caused some significant damage (though not totally severe), flooding in many areas around here (I live in southeast
Louisiana), hit New Orleans directly, and was still fresh on
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I removed the line that said internal sources suggest... because the link given as a citation no longer has information relevant to Cindy... In fact it talks about
Epsilon. Please replace this sentence when appopriate. Perhaps it was a bit redundant with the sentence before it as well...
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if it did at all, I remember seeing it. No offense, but $ 40 million is pretty pitiful for storms nowadays. It needs to have caused at least $ 100 million in damage and at least 5 deaths for me to even consider agreeing to it. Cindy had her 15 minutes of localized fame. This storm wasn't
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Whether it's true or not makes little difference. 3 deaths and $ 40 million in damage for a modern storm is NOT NOTABLE enough. What part of that fails to get through? It deserves it's nice big office on the main page, not a whole building/subpage. --
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article.) BTW, I've observed with interest that many people in the New
Orleans area are under the mistaken impression that Cindy actually was a hurricane, and refer to the storm that way. Hm, I think I'll add that last tidbit to the article. --
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Hmmm... caused almost 5 times the damage of
Ophelia ($ 320 million for Cindy vs. $ 70 million for Ophelia). Looks like Ophelia will definitely not be retired... Cindy has a better chance now, and it's highly unlikely to be retired.
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Keep it, the storm was big news in
Georgia where there was a tornado at the Atlanta Motor Speedway. Also that one tornado was estimated to have done at least $ 40 million worth or damage. Also, why isn't that in the damages section?
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I wouldn't say totally forgotten... I live in southeast
Louisiana. I went through both Cindy and Katrina, as well as the edge of Rita. We still refer to Cindy as quite a bad storm. It's definitely notable, just not notorious.
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it, but 1995 should be used as a guide to keep 2005 season shorter than necessary, if that is the reasoning behind this page. If that isn't the reason, I don't know what is. We don't need an article on every last storm!
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like if it was a hurricane. And having a hard limit in damage and fatalities before considering a storm notable is a mistake; what if a tropical storm caused next to no damage and claimed one victim -
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You give one kid a piece of candy then every kid wants a piece of candy and then you've got a big damn problem. You do it for one no notable storm, then you have to do it for the others. BAAAD! --
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The "internal sources" quoted is actually that picture of the board with the list of storms, where it lists Cindy as 75 mph. I agree it shouldn't be mentioned until the TCR comes out, though.
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in damage? How about Erin in 1995? The reason that there are no articles is because they are not notable. How is this storm any different, except for the fact is from this year?
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The tornado outbreak article is start-class and isn't terribly long. I propose merging the tornado outbreak article into this article, and have the chart be collapsible. ♫
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Exactly...the point of wikipedia as I see it, is that more author/editors can produce more information, making it the most comprehensive collection of knowledge ever.
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and many other older non-retired storms we have articles for. (Not that I want to get into an argument about notability, since my own criteria is article quality.)
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To make a compromise, I think that if the TCR says it's a hurricane, we keep the separate article. If it stays a tropical storm, merge it. Fair enough?
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and merge them into one large page since a lot of them weren't *cough* "notable". That doesn't make sense, and neither does this. Let it go. --
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Why would it matter whether it was 75 mph or only 70 mph? This does not affect the notability of the storm or the quality of the article.
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A very well written article - I find no issues that need to be corrected. Due to this, I am passing the article to GA status. Congrats!
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You answered your own question. The reason is that it is from this year, and there is therefore more information available on the storm.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Why did someone put the merge tag back on if it says the result of the discussion was to keep? Its really just the same result.
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Agreed. For a US storm, $ 320M is certainly not worthy of retirement. Besides, after
Katrina, it is almost forgotten now...
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Erin likely would have had an article had it formed today, due to the greater amount of information available...
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Agreed. I mean it only caused 3 deaths and it didn't cause that much damage. Hell it wasn't even a hurricane.--
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NO NO NO NO! Why in God's name are we creating subpages! This is a NON-NOTABLE storm. This is ridiculous. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20051111215801/http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/newsrelated/100000withoutpower.htm
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So update the article already with the information about the tornado. Just make sure to include sources.
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Hi! I'll be reviewing this article for GA, and should have the full review up within a few hours.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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and related subjects on Knowledge (XXG). To participate, help improve this article or visit the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050910122531/http://www.al.com/weather/hurricane/cindyphotos/
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22:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC) Looks good. Now just add some more preps and send it off to GAN.
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Last edited at 15:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 18:30, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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I think it is pretty close to being ready. Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?
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Faith was very historically notable though, like Vince and Alberto (2000) were.
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https://archive.is/20130104164919/http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv%5Cwb/43728
967:<$ 100 Million and <5 deaths = no article? Then Merge Ophelia as well.
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As non-notable as this storm was, it's a lot more worthy of an article than
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I would have merged it, but someone put it up for a vfd. It is now not in
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YES YES YES YES! This is a NOTABLE storm. Saying otherwise is ridiculous.
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is ridiculous. Using the same logic, let's go through and delete
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http://www.delrionewsherald.com/story.lasso?ewcd=8d3a20080e1b17ef
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Hey, I live in Atlanta and it barely made the front page of the
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Wikipeda is not an indescriminate collection of information.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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439:update the nomination page and article talk page
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1169:It says 320M dollars in damage-gonna add that?
855:http://en.wikipedia.org/Atlanta_Motor_Speedway
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1690:The comment(s) below were originally left at
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1010:Sources seem to be fairly easy to google up:
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1230:The impact section needs more work.--
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867:Silence Knight
860:The preceding
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818:The preceding
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469:Hurricane Eric
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541:Infrogmation
489:
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474:my dropsonde
472:
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415:
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367:
343:
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259:Project Talk
237:project page
230:
224:
158:WikiProjects
125:
89:
49:
47:
43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
1673:Dana boomer
1390:Dana boomer
1377:transcluded
1260:—Preceding
2033:Categories
1977:Report bug
1853:Report bug
1464:verifiable
1245:NWS report
1213:PenguinCDF
1182:PenguinCDF
800:Good kitty
653:good faith
565:Merge back
556:PenguinCDF
264:Assessment
37:under the
1960:this tool
1953:this tool
1900:dead link
1836:this tool
1829:this tool
1654:Pass/Fail
1535:(focused)
1369:GA Review
1349:Plasticup
1320:Plasticup
1232:Nilfanion
451:template
1966:Cheers.—
1842:Cheers.—
1274:contribs
1262:unsigned
1195:CrazyC83
1122:Hopquick
875:contribs
862:unsigned
840:Source?
833:contribs
820:unsigned
687:argument
623:CrazyC83
569:CrazyC83
520:CrazyC83
431:archives
427:promotes
186:Atlantic
182:Tropical
148:GA-class
118:deletion
51:reassess
1904:tag to
1876:my edit
1746:my edit
1648:Overall
1427:(prose)
1054:archive
935:archive
809:Tornado
765:archive
732:Jamie C
719:archive
696:tomf688
669:archive
481:archive
308:on the
281:Weather
269:A-Class
232:weather
177:Weather
74:Process
1987:Merge
1896:Added
1605:images
1580:stable
1578:It is
1556:policy
1516:It is
1457:It is
1418:It is
1407:review
1148:AySz88
1102:Jdorje
1016:AySz88
992:Jdorje
891:Jdorje
842:Jdorje
789:Jdorje
602:Jdorje
507:Jdorje
274:Alerts
154:scale.
96:Listed
77:Result
1409:(see
1379:from
919:. --
917:Merge
685:This
437:will
435:a bot
2019:talk
2002:talk
1708:Tito
1677:talk
1461:and
1411:here
1394:talk
1303:talk
1270:talk
1236:talk
1226:Todo
871:talk
829:talk
126:keep
124:was
71:Date
2022:)
2005:)
1934:RfC
1890:to
1810:RfC
1780:to
1770:to
1760:to
1439:MoS
1058:--
939:--
912:AJC
877:) .
835:) .
300:Mid
2035::
1947:.
1942:}}
1938:{{
1902:}}
1898:{{
1823:.
1818:}}
1814:{{
1710:xd
1679:)
1656::
1650::
1633::
1625:b
1619::
1611:a
1588::
1582:.
1564::
1558:.
1537::
1533:b
1527::
1523:a
1520:.
1502::
1498:OR
1494:c
1488::
1480:b
1474::
1470:a
1467:.
1443::
1435:b
1429::
1425:a
1422:.
1405:GA
1396:)
1306:)
1272:•
1238:)
1146:--
873:•
831:•
761:-
755:-
715:-
709:-
665:-
659:-
477:-
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449:}}
443:{{
376:).
352:).
184:/
180::
54:it
45:.
2016:(
1999:(
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1300:(
1268:(
1234:(
1160:^
1155:-
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1135:"
1049:§
1041:§
1028:^
1023:-
1018:^
930:§
922:§
869:(
858:—
827:(
816:—
455:.
421:.
410:.
312:.
160::
128:.
56:.
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