828:, at least part of the problem with the 2017 iPad was that there was a dispute as to whether it was the 5th or 7th generation, because Apple discontinued the un-decorated "iPad" name after the 4th generation of iPad And Nothing Else, so some considered the first-generation iPad Air to be the successor to the 4th generation iPad, making it a 5th generation iPad and making the iPad Air 2 a 6th generation iPad. Then the iPad Air name was discontinued when the next iPad And Nothing Else came out, so if the iPad And Nothing Else line and the iPad Air line were considered the same line, that would make the 2017 iPad the 7th generation. On the other hand, others followed Apple's labeling of it as a 5th generation iPad, and there didn't seem to be a clear preference on the part of third parties as to whether to call it "5th generation", "7th generation", or 2017. "iPad (2017)" at least avoided the "which generation" issue. There's no such issue with the iPhone SE.
2081:, if the Apple's official name is more significant than the media's name. I'm not so sure whether it is better off taking the name that Apple specifically names or whether it is better off taking the name that the majority of the media refers to. I personally tend to lean towards "iPhone SE (2nd generation)" because that's what Apple refers the newer model of iPhone SE as. However, it does seem that a lot of online shopping searches refer to the phone as "iPhone SE 2020" or similar, but seeing as the majority of Apple's other device lines use "2nd generation" for most of their iPads and iPod Touches use that formatting, it could be possible that there could be certain trend regarding "2nd generation", though it is not worth speaking too soon about the naming format. Whether the media's or Apple's way of naming the device is more significant is difficult to say. Another point worth mentioning is how the original
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is the more accurate, popular, and correct name. For the referenced iPads and Nexus devices, the year might have been appropriate because the model was a light refresh of an almost identical prior year model. This new SE however was launched 4 years after the first and is substantively different in design, so I think using 'second generation' won't prompt any confusion like it might have done for those referenced with tablets. The general public is vastly more au fait with the different iPhone models and generations than it is with iPads/tablets.
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1306:. Again, using the year as the specifier is an artificial construction used by news sites to assist with them being found more quickly by readers using sites like Google. It has no bearing on the actual name of the product. If another iPhone SE is released this year for some reason, we will then be in the enviable position of having to justify having convoluted article titles like
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as of 4/18/2020 reveals that the official name is the iPhone SE, with the SE stylized in a rounded-corner box, precisely like the original iPhone SE. There is no mention of the words "Second
Generation" on the entire page, though it is the second generation, as found elsewhere on the Apple website.
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5. Knowledge (XXG) is not a collection of product announcements and rumors. Although
Knowledge (XXG) includes up-to-date knowledge about newly revealed products, short articles that consist of only product announcement information are not appropriate. Until such time that more encyclopedic knowledge
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all use 'second-generation' to refer to it. Of course, it's not perfect, and even among those outlets some refer to it as the iPhone SE2 in some articles and 'second-generation' in others, while the 9to5mac link I shared uses '2020 second-generation iPhone SE'. On balance though, I think second gen
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What I'm sayings is that even if media biases/speculation has affected their usage of the name "2020 iPhone SE" and derivatives, it does not invalidate the fact that it is being used on a more frequent basis. Furthermore, we should not be arguing on the basis of "an official name", as that does not
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with old Apple article names which I listed before, so I disagree with those iPad article names. For consistency I think they should all have "generation" in the title. Terms like "iPhone SE 2020" and "iPhone SE 2" can easily just be redirected to "iPhone SE (2nd generation)"; in fact they already
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For what it's worth, a quick Google search for "iphone se" "2020" (with those quotes) says there were about 87 hits if you go to the last page of search results and a quick Google search for "second-generation iphone se" (again, with those quotes) says there were about 173 results if you go to the
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Again, the year is an artificial name to help articles get search engine hits. In conversation, this device is called the "New iPhone SE". Should that be the title of the article? Should we reward websites that simply append the year to a product name because they're lazy and want to drive search
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I am NOT doing crystalball. Everything in this article is based on the present. The height? Screen protectors labeled specifically for this phone. The cameras? Cases for this phone. The name? Why, the Apple website itself! Everything is based on real facts. The case is, in fact, designed for this
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For those of you who still think that the article should be titled as 'iPhone SE (2020)', the picture next to this text (which is my OWN work) is proof that Apple does, in fact, designate the new iPhone SE as 'iPhone SE (2nd generation)', so retaining the current article name was the right move.
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The title iPhone SE (1st generation) is brand new and has no authority at all, no more than the one here, I don't know why people keep referencing it. That's why I have linked the redirect for discussion. Both matters have to be decided and if you are going to try to make this a discussion about
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The second generation of iPhone SE is an iPhone SE. It's not a new model, it's only a new generation. It is depicted on the Apple website as the iPhone SE (with the SE stylized in a box), just like the first generation. There should be a single article for the single product. There could be
566:: Not sure why there have been continued page moves on this article when there is an ongoing discussion about it on the talk page and the title has been disputed. I think I prefer the "2nd generation" but please come to talk page consensus before doing any more moves on this.
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breakout articles (named by generation, not by year) identical to the style of the iPod Touch article(s). Ref the mistake of originally mis-naming the iPad Air as the 5th
Generation iPad, and calling the 5th generation iPad the 2017. No more making stuff up would be great.
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iPhone alone. This is not from leakers. This is cold hard facts. I'm not crystalballer. Everything is based on the present. Some facts even come from Apple themselves! This is NOT a crystalball situation. I suggest you read through first and see what this is all about. -
1793:- Apple doesn't use iPhone SE (2nd Generation) mostly in their website (but its still use in the bottom of the page), and considering many other sources saying iPhone SE (2020), I support the change, but keep iPhone SE (2nd generation) name somewhere in the article.
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Actually, it's not released yet. It's only announced. Which is all the more reason to stick to the name the company gave for it, rather than making up our own name or one made up by the media long before the product was ever available or announced... In other words:
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Could the iPhone SE be considered its own line of iPhone? Apple specifically refers to the new iPhone SE as the second-generation. This makes me wonder if iPhone SE has become its own product line. Could we possibly change the generation number to 2nd?
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Even if speculative naming has influenced the common name in media, it does not invalidate such a common name. Crystalballing is not applicable as since its already released, any prerelease speculation is a valid part of the product's history.
407:). Even with a product announcement, we still need outside sources AFTER the announcement to provide us encyclopedic sources to make an article with. None of those exist. Also, you may want to make your case at the nomination page, not here. —
689:. The question of the common name is not easy to answer, but the editors in this discussion prefer iPhone SE (2nd generation) by a wide margin. Apple doesn't provide much help on the naming, since for them this is just the new 'iPhone SE'.
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page would be named. If indeed it's the first iPhone SE of its line, or if the iPhone SE is really a new spinoff line, as though iPhone SE's are as significant of a distinction as are the main line of iPhones, the naming format used in
1051:, official names do not take precedent — most cited media publications refer to it as the 2020 iPhone SE, and "iPhone SE 2020" has 50% more hits on Google than "iPhone SE second generation" and "second generation iPhone SE" combined. --
518:, official names do not take precedent. Most cited media publications refer to it as the 2020 iPhone SE, and "iPhone SE 2020" has 50% more hits on Google than "iPhone SE second generation" and "second generation iPhone SE" combined. --
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Even then, if you search in another search engine (I used bing) and add a custom time range (april 15 - april 18, to remove pre-announcement articles), the number of results for iPhone SE 2020 still exceeds that of iPhone SE 2nd gen.
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So basically all the CRYSTALBALL sites that didn't have a name had their name stick after the official product launch. That really shouldn't be a way to name articles, now you're just using CRYSTALBALL as a meta source...
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It's been up for 7 days, which is ample time for a discussion. Plus, it wasn't discussed for 3 days straight, which means that people have lost interest in the discussion. We've made a decision; let's put it in action.
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meet the threshold to deviate from the name given by Apple to their own product. If we deviate on the basis of those same sources, we are merely contributing to the problem of promoting this neologism that
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2264:) said earlier in the discussion, an uninvolved administrator will close the discussion at the correct time. Please do not try and close the discussion prior to that. If you have questions please read
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is the official name of the phone, and given that the article about the first generation is titled "iPhone SE (1st generation)", it makes sense to keep the current title so it won't cause confusion. —
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have been proposed. Please don't move the article to a different title without discussing it. I don't think the title matters much, but it is likely that Apple's official designation will prevail.
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reason to deviate from the name given to a product by its manufacturer. And one where articles and news on the topic are deviating simply to get themselves well positioned within search results
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about the product can be verified, product announcements should be merged to a larger topic (such as an article about the creator(s), a series of products, or a previous product) if applicable.
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Thus both generations of the iPhone SE should be on one page, just as all seven generations of the iPod Touch are on one page and all six generations of the Ford
Explorer are on one page.
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are not a valid source, and that is what most articles post-announcement have been based on (that, and using a name that will help them become relevant to search queries, and is thus a
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If that's the case, then why do the iPad models have years instead of generation numbers? Plus name iPhone SE 2020 is a more common name than iPhone SE second generation, conforming to
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distinct products. The new SE is more like an iPhone 8 and the old SE almost an exact copy of an iPhone 5s. There is no way the new and old SE should be in the same article.
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And as I've said elsewhere in this discussion, they're doing that for search results, not because it's actually called that by anyone. Meanwhile, if I walk into my local
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until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. I'm notifying you since you edited this redirect a few months ago.
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An uninvolved administrator will close the discussion at the correct time. Please do not try and close the discussion prior to that. If you have questions please read
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The title of the first generation article is actually disputed, please see the
Redirects for discussion link I gave above. I don't think that argument holds water.
500:. This is just the most obvious place to find it. There will be other official documents that mention this, so I'll move the page again once the dust has settled.
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Google Trends may not be the best source in a vacuum, but it is an influencing factor as it represents how most people search for the article/name the device. --
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iPhone SE you will need to notify people there of a requested move here. Also FYI you can't "second" something that has been proposed more than 1 time already.
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Apple mentioned in their website that the phone is named "iPhone SE (2nd generation)," and Apple is the company that has made, named, and marketed the phone.
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If we were to follow WP:COMMONNAME then all the iPads would all be consolidated in a single page called iPad Pro, Air, mini, or just iPad. That doesn't work.
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media outlets without an official name to use are going to try and optimize themselves into search results by using the year as the disambiguation... —
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I also want to change the title of IPhone SE (2nd generation) too. It will be confusing for other people. Change it to IPhone SE if everybody agrees.
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I second that, not only because it is the official name, but because the title of this article should be in line with the title of the article called
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kind of overrides that rule. Most people will refer to the iPhone SE as the iPhone SE 2020 or the new iPhone SE, not the second generation iPhone SE.
1351:- Knowledge (XXG) does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used
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The iPhone SE 1st
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the most popular title. Oh... it's not. It's just search results. Which aren't a valid source or reason to name an article a certain way... —
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714:– Move warring. Please use this thread to reach agreement on what the title should be. I have no opinion myself but the war needs to stop.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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1858:- I support 2nd/second generation iPhone SE; its how Apple refers to the model in all its communications; reputable tech outlets like
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and ask for an "iPhone SE 2020", I'll likely get a blank stare while they figure out what it is I'm referring to. If I'd asked for
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Hi all, I just wanted to clear something up about the name of the second generation of the iPhone SE, as a new owner of one.
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and related topics on
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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would sound more appropriate to me, as the older 2016 iPhone SE is rarely referred to the "iPhone SE 2016" or similar.
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1749:. If, for some reason, we decide to move this article to something else, then I suggest that we should also move the
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short of Apple announcing and releasing the product and secondary sources becoming available to support an article. —
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for consistency with the 1st generation model and also because that is what Apple and reliable sources referred to.
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Should the XR be added to the related section as they have the same camera and the Same paint scheme on the sides?
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iPhone SE, it's just the current version of the iPhone SE. The first generation/2016 one is also an iPhone SE.
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results? I think the answer is no. And that seems to be the consensus here. I'm sorry you feel otherwise. —
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as fodder for redirects to assist our readers with finding the relevant article under its correct name. —
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. --
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Furthermore the 2nd generation iPhone SE is a successor to both the original iPhone SE and iPhone 8. --
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for consistency with other Apple device articles with identical names but released in different years (
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or some such nonsense. When the logical path is to use the name the manufacturer has given, one that
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For example as of right now the iPhone SE's latest official software is ios 14.5.1 not 14.5
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Nothing has been officially announced by Apple, and nothing has been released for sale.
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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 10#iPhone 8 (2nd generation)
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instead of iPhone SE (second generation). Everyone opposing should consider that.
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Can we close this conversation since it has not been discussed for a while --
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Don't merge the articles together. The 2 articles are similar in name only. -
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Arguments in favour of keeping the article don't belong here. Make them on
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Totally disagree with this. The article would be large and they are two
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Should point releases be added to the "currently released IOS version?"
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1731:- Whatever Apple designates the new SE as will be the article's name.
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Support one article only for the iPhone SE, which is a single product.
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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 April 16#IPhone SE
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This new phone is simply the latest in the series of iPhone SE.
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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 4#iPhone 9
2038:. Also I notice that recent iPad articles are named things like
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use official names, but I think the official-ness makes it more
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by using a name you'd rather see than the name actually given. —
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https://support.apple.com/de-de/guide/security/sec8a67fa93d/web
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Sorry but I am going off on how Apple put it on their website.
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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect
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If you check most of those sources they are pre-announcement
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I wouldn't agree. The 2nd generation/2020 iPhone SE is not
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journalism. They have no bearing on the conversation here. —
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with the majority of other Apple device articles, such as:
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is the stale CRYSTALBALL name, as are derivatives such as
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Doing the wrong thing repeatedly does not make it right. —
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a very compelling reason to deviate from the given name.
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Literally this editors first edits were to !vote here. —
1447:. With those results in mind, I propose naming the page
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hold much weight when deciding on the article title. --
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discussion; official names don't take precedence here.
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says, we don't report on unannounced products/rumors (
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/IPhone SE (2020)
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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
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The official name is "iPhone SE (2nd
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is not going to move iPhone SE to iPhone SE (2016).
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draftify 3 articles (including iPhone 12 and iOS 14)
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on 3 January 2019. The result of the discussion was
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is the official name used by Apple on their website
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though, that would have been more clear for them. —
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2484:Should the XR be added to the related section?
2154:Can't really close this without deciding that
1680:They should also consider that it's only been
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876:- Keep the current title for consistency with
859:This is proper, given the way Apple uses it.
826:Talk:IPad (2017)#Requested move 21 March 2017
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1753:article to be in line with the new title. -
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1422:, 2020 iPhone SE is vastly more popular. --
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2290:The discussion above is closed.
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1217:I mean, it does... we need a
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241:and see a list of open tasks.
136:and see a list of open tasks.
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2114:Let's close this discussion.
1791:Support for iPhone SE (2020)
1291:And if you bothered to read
878:iPhone SE (first generation)
659:Requested move 16 April 2020
2551:C-Class Apple Inc. articles
2391:second generation iPhone SE
2014:iPod Touch (7th generation)
2009:iPod Touch (6th generation)
2004:iPod Touch (5th generation)
1999:iPod Touch (4th generation)
1909:use iPhone SE 2020 though.
1515:content derived from rumors
398:also controls here. But as
2597:
2576:WikiProject 2010s articles
2537:05:32, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
2376:iPhone SE title (followup)
2371:20:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
2348:04:24, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
2328:03:15, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
2301:"IPhone 9 Plus" listed at
2280:20:55, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
2249:16:35, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
2234:17:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
2214:12:01, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
2195:23:26, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
2168:18:01, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
2150:16:17, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
2129:13:47, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
2107:08:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
2079:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
2074:20:28, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
2062:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
2057:15:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
2021:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
1994:iPad Mini (5th generation)
1989:iPad Mini (1st generation)
1963:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
1954:07:19, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
1939:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
1929:05:41, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
1885:11:58, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
1856:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
1846:13:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
1821:06:07, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
1803:05:46, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
1780:03:58, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
1765:20:37, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1751:iPhone SE (1st generation)
1747:iPhone SE (1st generation)
1741:17:39, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1729:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
1723:10:45, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1701:18:35, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1676:07:10, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1643:06:51, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1629:22:55, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
1622:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
1615:10:09, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1601:06:53, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1583:05:14, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1565:22:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
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1432:05:59, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1398:05:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
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1312:iPhone SE (2020, December)
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1243:08:37, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
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1191:07:09, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
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874:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
869:21:40, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
857:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
848:04:48, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
813:19:28, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
781:21:12, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
761:20:10, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
745:19:59, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
730:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
724:19:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
706:IPhone SE (2nd generation)
699:01:53, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
654:14:18, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
638:04:38, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
613:19:39, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
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528:16:45, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
510:08:05, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
491:01:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
479:iPhone SE (2nd generation)
250:Template:WikiProject 2010s
168:project's importance scale
2517:IPhone 8 (2nd generation)
766:Move to iPhone SE (2020).
459:18:19, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
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420:17:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
383:17:17, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
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2505:Redirects for discussion
2466:00:27, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
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2419:Redirects for discussion
2412:18:28, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
2319:. Please participate in
2303:Redirects for discussion
2292:Please do not modify it.
1318:, and leave titles like
1045:Move to iPhone SE (2020)
919:Support iPhone SE (2020)
895:Support iPhone SE (2020)
768:This is a repeat of the
673:Please do not modify it.
603:🤡? What are you doing?
2519:and has thus listed it
2389:The designation of the
2323:if you wish to do so.
2321:the redirect discussion
2088:iPhone (1st generation)
1509:, and that constitutes
1308:iPhone SE (2020, April)
2566:C-Class 2010s articles
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117:WikiProject Apple Inc.
63:This article is rated
2417:"iPhone 9" listed at
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1984:iPad (4th generation)
1979:iPad (3rd generation)
1974:iPad (1st generation)
1223:emphatically does not
619:https://www.apple.com
514:Please note that per
67:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
18:Talk:IPhone SE (2020)
2183:, that's for sure. -
324:relevant style guide
320:varieties of English
2333:Line of smartphones
322:. According to the
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788:Old Naval Rooftops
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