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837:. Andrzejbanas reverted it to the previous/current edit because they felt it was better to show the airdates, TV channels, and titles that Honda directed per show. I felt this was excessive and unorganized. My proposal was a compromise by combining elements of both edits (see the table example above). Andrzejbanas then suggested a filmography article, which I prematurely created and that's how we ended up to where we are now.
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1301:- Option two doesn't have a column indicating they were all directing roles, and the prose doesn't clarify that anywhere that I can see. If the air date, channel, and all that extra information is actually in the source cited, it seems like useful information that isn't available in another Knowledge article. (For example, the table shows he directed 5 episodes of
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where in row after row adds nothing new to the information than episode release dates. My personal perception -and that is how encyclopedic logic should work- has been in encyclopedia, focus should be on encyclopedic paragraph writing than decorative tabulation where one can do without tables. So if
746:
I think we could remove the network but might as well include the dates and episodes in the article. I think its more messy to have users hop between titles of episodes and tag. If you are worried about the size being unruly, perhaps its time to create a page that is caled "Ishiro Honda filmography"
665:
My revised edit was undone due to the old edit being considered "better" for revealing which episodes Honda directed. I feel its overkill to give the airdates and individual episodes their own columns. It's excessive and unorganized. I suggest the episodes list and airdates be covered in an EFN (see
913:
That's the dispute I have with the current edit. I do feel that the episode/airdate columns extend into something outrageous. Adding the episodes list and airdates to an EFN is a decent compromise. We wouldn't be losing the info completely. It'll still be there and accessible through the EFN in the
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labelled as "presented like this". When I said "first" I was referring to the first example and when I said "second" I was referring to the second example. Any lengthy note should be shifted into a footnote, particularly if it would be repeated in several cells. However, I'm not saying that the
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I love old Asian cinema and have seen a couple of Honda's films, this article really isn't that huge. There was no need to split his filmography from the article. I think there needs to be more focus to use other sources, there is a dominance from one source throughout the article and I feel that
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As for the TV table, I really don't see the need to supply the TV network in a column and at the same time you're separating the air-date from the episode which is kinda strange. I don't think that should be happening. But I like seeing the episode list, it's not long, or cumbersome. The smaller
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No no, I understood you. I just don't agree. I think adding the years is a bit more specific for television. With some exceptions, most directors aren't releasing 5 films a year, here we have several tv shows released in the same year. To clarify their release order, I think the original release
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There doesn't seem to be a lot of guides specifically for television for directors in this filmography guide. I would leave the dates in to make it clear which episodes were released first, as that information is not readily available elsewhere. The networks can be scrapped as stated, but I feel
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That still retains the very dispute I have with the current edit. Perhaps I didn't illustrate my point as well as I thought I did, my apologies. The issue that I have is that each episode and their airdates are given their own rowspan instead of unifying them under a single rowspan like
2020:
For this article to be nominated for GA, I need to fix this reference. The CW isn't a reliable source, and I can't find online sources which talk about what happens in the episode (although the man's official website mentions it being based around Honda-san). Any ideas? -
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I feel like adding it there isn't useful and makes it more frustrating to read for viewers. Its not a difficult to understand table the way it is currently laid out. So far, I really don't see much positive change from altering it beyond dropping the networks.
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I didn't weigh in here because I figured I'd said what I wanted to say earlier. Generally, people here seem to want a mix of both our styles. I still stand we can drop network, and the empty notes section. Otherwise, everything else I feel is good to keep in.
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Knowledge is not democracy but moves according to democratic vote where people believing in non-encyclopedic ways too get precedence lot of time so RFC also wont guarantee you a success. So if you are too serious file RFC and if not ignore and let it
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That may have been premature on my part. Apologies for that and apologies for pinging you again, but this question is for you. It's been suggested so far to combine both edits. What do you think should be retained and removed for the new wikitable?
674:, you reverted my edit. So what do you think about this compromise? It merges the old edit with the new edit. The expanded efn will be shown below the article, not on top of the table like it shows here. Feel free to remove the table upon replying.
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series, these films don't really have
English titles as per Galbraith's book, they were not really released in English-language territories. I don't think it's appropriate to give them English titles as these films were never named that.
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First one technicality just for information, Since already 3 people are in discussion WP:4o need to apply as per
Knowledge culture, Pl. correct if my perception is not correct enough. Said that with following point we will come to main
1338:, by combing the old edit with the new edit. The episode titles and airdates would be covered in an EFN in the wikitable's notes column. The info would still be there, just moved to a different area that's still accessible to readers.
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The key thing is they use "translations", not official release titles and to readers it would be misleading to say it is. It's convenient to have an
English-language title (i.e: nobody commons speaking English says
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aspects from both tables: the first
Television table without individual episodes listed, and the second Films table which doesn't restrict the column size and which has shorter Notes. Watch the capitalization per
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If not then, Wikipedians usually go by specific written guidelines and on this specific aspect about 'relevancy of table format where most of data is same in every cell for every date' need to be discussed through
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exists, and states " it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable
English-language sources)". However, outside the
1065:
Hm. It appears we've reached an impasse, and it appears Govvy has chosen not to contribute further to this discussion. We could reach out for a third opinion since the situation now meets the requirements of
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So how should we proceed with the wikitable in a way that can reach a consensus? Andrzejbanas, I'd appreciate it if contributed more to this discussion since you originally opposed and reverted my edit.
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Haha. I'm not against changing the table up as I said I agree with it, I figured giving it some time for others who were involved earlier wouldn't be a bad thing for a relatively uncontroversial edit.
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WP:FILMOGRAPHY recommends. The current edit creates excessive stacks of individual airdates and episode titles. I don't see how an EFN would be frustrating for readers. They're used all the time.
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footnotes should be full of trivia; it still has to be notable information to be included in the article. If the sources are properly archived, readers can always go to them for more details. –
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There's no real official standardized formatting per se, but I feel it's more accurate to the source which only says what they are credited as, not what they aren't. If that' makes any sense.
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Sorry, but I haven't been paying attention, but as long as I can read the table either is fine, my qualm was that you split the table into a separate article when that clearly wasn't needed.
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Would you mind if we discuss that a bit later? The original issue that I brought up remains unresolved. It was regarding the TV wikitable. I edited the table to match the recommendations of
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I think putting that in an EFN is a terrible idea. It'll look cluttered down there, and not every reader will see it. If it's going to be on the page, it should really be on the page.
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table lacks all the information the bigger one provides. I was wondering have you thought about a table, where the TV show title is in a single row, with all the episodes underneath?
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I'd be happy to drop "Notes" as well. That was mostly added for information for users if there was anything quick to be added. Nothing has been, so it can probably be scrapped.
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1370:, but since the episode list/airdates don't want to be lost, the EFN was the best compromise I came up with. Readers won't miss it. It will still be there via the EFN link.
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1404:. Relegating extra information to footnotes is fine. Tables should preferably be dense without a lot of wasted white space, whatever the browser width and text size. –
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1943:). I'd suggest to "fix" this, is we have a separate heading for a translated title if there is no official English-language release of the film. What do you think?
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I don't think we should put "No" in the filmography box as the sources don't actually state that he "did not" do any specific job, but only states what he did do.
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Alright then. Since more input from other editors are needed and you already threw your hat into the ring, might as well hear your two cents. So what's your take?
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I'm a bit confused. Which parts specifically of both edits do you propose mixing? And when you say footnotes, are you referring to the EFN I proposed?
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It looks equally as cluttered down they way it is now. The whole point of the EFN is to avoid clutter. My edit was following the recommendations of
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doesn't mind switching back to the new edit with WP:FILMOGRAPHY's recommendations or settling for my proposal of combining the old/new edits?
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this too. It would make the table smaller but I feel we should remove the Notes column since it was never used.
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Something appears to have gone wrong with the transclusion for this RfC; it's showing up on RfC lists as
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that's exactly what I did originally but my edit edit was reverted to the previous/current edit. Unless
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That is not a consensus, you need much more input from other editors. I have restored the content.
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If user
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Couldn't hurt to tag some others who were involved in the conversation to get a quick yes or no.
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I think a good compromise would be if we mention both, like " states , however, states ".
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like, which episodes he worked on do not extend the tables into anything outrageous.
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I see very little usage of the native titles and as I have already explained to you
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1218:. Not sure how to go about addressing this, I've never seen this issue before.
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my position is acceptable that would be most simple for both of you to work on.
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I was referring to the two examples in the opening statement, which were each
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Seeking further discussion on whether content on the TV wiki table should be
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I don't see how a table with four columns is considered busy beyond this.
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You mean like a separate wikitable solely dedicate to the episodes list?
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I added it because nearly every article on
Knowledge uses it (eg.
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The quality of this article is lacking, it's almost stub status.
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1652:"Honey, It's a Presidential Order" ("Anata shacho meirei yo")
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I see. So does the first example match what you're proposing?
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Unknown-importance biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
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I wouldn't object to a new page for the filmography section.
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Do we add the new table now or wait for further consensus?
1666:"We're Going South-Southwest" ("Nan nan sei ni ikuno yo")
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Ishiro Honda: A Life in Film, from
Godzilla to Kurosawa
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Husbands, Men, Be Strong (Otto yo otoko yo tsuyokunare)
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lists him as the only director for all 51 episodes?)
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sfn error: no target: CITEREFRyfleGodziszewski2017 (
467:: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions.
255:. Current time in Japan: 09:55, September 29, 2024 (
232:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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734:"Operation Monster Rainbow" - Airdate: May 14, 1971
2103:B-Class biography (actors and filmmakers) articles
1248:) cannot handle; the fix is to create a redirect,
1012:"The Woman, at That Moment" ("Onna wa sono toki")
833:. It made the table more organized and contained,
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732:"Takkong's Great Revenge" - Airdate: April 9, 1971
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730:"Charge of the Monsters" - Airdate: April 2, 1971
247:, where you can join the project, participate in
1334:Yes! That's exactly what I was proposing above,
582:. To improve this article, please refer to the
1163:request since an RfC has been opened below. –
970:What I would propose is something like this.
8:
747:to keep things a bit more simple and clean.
1806:I see you're a man of culture as well! lol
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239:on Knowledge. If you would like to
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1982:Quentin Tarantino filmography#Film
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1866:) 8:30, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
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1395:. I would go with the shorter
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1276:- The first option looks like
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2031:
2017:
2011:
2010:
2009:
2008:
2007:
1962:
1959:
1958:
1957:
1956:
1955:
1887:
1884:
1883:
1882:
1847:
1844:
1843:
1842:
1841:
1840:
1839:
1838:
1837:
1836:
1835:
1834:
1833:
1832:
1779:
1778:
1777:
1776:
1775:
1774:
1760:
1714:
1679:
1678:
1672:
1671:
1669:
1667:
1664:
1658:
1657:
1655:
1653:
1650:
1648:9 October 1969
1644:
1643:
1637:
1636:
1633:
1630:
1627:
1621:
1620:
1619:
1618:
1617:
1616:
1615:
1614:
1613:
1612:
1611:
1610:
1499:Argento Surfer
1487:
1486:
1485:
1484:
1483:
1482:
1481:
1417:
1416:
1389:
1388:
1387:
1386:
1385:
1384:
1383:
1382:
1368:WP:FILMOGRAPHY
1354:Argento Surfer
1330:Argento Surfer
1322:
1321:
1311:Argento Surfer
1299:A mix of both?
1296:
1286:Argento Surfer
1271:
1270:
1269:
1219:
1188:
1185:
1184:
1183:
1182:
1181:
1180:
1179:
1178:
1177:
1176:
1175:
1144:
1125:
1124:
1123:
1122:
1121:
1120:
1119:
1118:
1115:
1111:
1103:
1099:
1016:
1015:
1013:
1010:
1008:7 January 1967
1005:
994:
993:
988:
985:
984:Premiere date
982:
975:
972:
968:
967:
966:
965:
964:
963:
962:
961:
960:
959:
958:
957:
956:
955:
941:
914:Notes column.
896:
831:WP:FILMOGRAPHY
776:
775:
774:
773:
741:
740:
737:
735:
733:
731:
722:
721:
718:
717:
714:
711:
706:
702:
701:
698:
695:
692:
662:
659:
636:
633:
630:
629:
626:
625:
622:
621:
614:Mid-importance
610:
604:
603:
601:
567:
566:
550:
538:
537:
535:Mid‑importance
529:
517:
516:
513:
512:
509:
508:
507:
506:
498:
485:
476:
468:
460:
451:
428:
427:
419:
412:
403:
402:
401:
390:
389:
385:A-class review
381:
364:
363:
358:
353:
348:
342:
339:
338:
330:
329:
322:
312:
311:
300:
294:
293:
291:
225:
224:
208:
196:
195:
181:
169:
168:
165:
164:
155:
145:
144:
142:
108:
107:
91:
79:
78:
67:
55:
54:
48:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
2160:
2149:
2146:
2144:
2141:
2139:
2136:
2134:
2131:
2129:
2126:
2124:
2121:
2119:
2116:
2114:
2111:
2109:
2106:
2104:
2101:
2099:
2096:
2094:
2091:
2089:
2086:
2084:
2081:
2079:
2076:
2074:
2071:
2069:
2066:
2065:
2063:
2050:
2044:
2039:
2037:
2033:
2030:
2028:
2024:
2015:
2012:
2006:
2002:
1998:
1994:
1993:
1991:
1987:
1983:
1979:
1978:
1977:
1976:
1972:
1968:
1960:
1954:
1950:
1946:
1942:
1938:
1933:
1932:
1930:
1926:
1922:
1918:
1914:
1913:
1912:
1911:
1907:
1903:
1898:
1893:
1892:WP:COMMONNAME
1885:
1881:
1877:
1873:
1869:
1868:
1867:
1865:
1861:
1857:
1855:
1846:Time of death
1845:
1831:
1827:
1823:
1819:
1818:
1817:
1813:
1809:
1805:
1804:
1803:
1799:
1795:
1791:
1787:
1786:
1785:
1784:
1783:
1782:
1781:
1780:
1773:
1769:
1765:
1761:
1759:
1755:
1751:
1747:
1746:
1745:
1741:
1737:
1733:
1732:
1731:
1727:
1723:
1719:
1715:
1713:
1709:
1705:
1701:
1697:
1696:
1695:
1694:
1690:
1686:
1677:
1673:
1670:
1668:
1665:
1660:
1659:
1656:
1654:
1651:
1646:
1645:
1642:
1638:
1624:
1609:
1605:
1601:
1597:
1596:
1595:
1591:
1587:
1582:
1581:
1580:
1576:
1572:
1565:
1560:
1559:
1558:
1554:
1550:
1546:
1545:
1544:
1540:
1536:
1531:
1530:
1529:
1525:
1521:
1514:
1507:
1500:
1493:
1488:
1480:
1476:
1472:
1466:
1461:
1460:
1459:
1455:
1451:
1446:
1442:
1441:
1440:
1436:
1432:
1426:
1421:
1420:
1419:
1418:
1415:
1411:
1407:
1403:
1398:
1394:
1391:
1390:
1381:
1377:
1373:
1369:
1365:
1364:
1363:
1359:
1355:
1351:
1350:
1349:
1345:
1341:
1337:
1331:
1326:
1325:
1324:
1323:
1320:
1316:
1312:
1308:
1304:
1300:
1297:
1295:
1291:
1287:
1283:
1279:
1275:
1272:
1268:
1264:
1260:
1252:
1247:
1244:
1241:
1237:
1233:
1232:
1231:
1228:
1227:
1226:
1217:
1213:
1212:
1211:
1210:
1206:
1202:
1198:
1194:
1186:
1174:
1170:
1166:
1162:
1158:
1157:
1156:
1152:
1148:
1145:
1139:
1133:
1132:
1131:
1130:
1129:
1128:
1127:
1126:
1116:
1112:
1108:
1104:
1100:
1096:
1088:
1083:
1082:
1081:
1077:
1073:
1069:
1064:
1063:
1062:
1058:
1054:
1049:
1048:
1047:
1043:
1039:
1034:
1033:
1032:
1031:
1027:
1023:
1014:
1011:
1006:
1003:
999:
998:The Newlyweds
995:
979:
973:
971:
954:
950:
946:
942:
940:
936:
932:
927:
926:
925:
921:
917:
912:
911:
910:
906:
902:
897:
895:
891:
887:
881:
873:
868:
867:
866:
862:
858:
854:
850:
849:
848:
844:
840:
836:
832:
828:
827:
826:
822:
818:
813:
812:
811:
807:
803:
797:
792:
791:
790:
789:
785:
781:
772:
768:
764:
760:
759:
758:
754:
750:
745:
744:
727:
724:
715:
712:
710:
707:
704:
703:
699:
696:
693:
690:
689:
686:
685:
681:
677:
671:
660:
658:
656:
652:
648:
647:50.78.183.102
644:
635:Short article
634:
619:
615:
609:
606:
605:
602:
585:
581:
577:
573:
572:
564:
558:
553:
551:
548:
544:
543:
539:
533:
530:
527:
523:
504:
503:
499:
497:into English.
496:
492:
491:
486:
483:
482:
477:
474:
473:
469:
466:
465:
461:
458:
457:
452:
450:
449:
444:
442:
437:
436:
432:
431:
426:
424:
423:
417:
416:
410:
409:
404:
399:
396:
395:
394:
387:
386:
382:
379:
378:
374:
373:
369:
362:
359:
357:
354:
352:
349:
347:
344:
343:
341:
340:
336:
335:
331:
327:
318:
314:
313:
309:
305:
299:
296:
295:
292:
275:
272:
262:
258:
254:
250:
246:
242:
238:
236:
231:
230:
222:
211:
209:
206:
202:
201:
197:
190:
185:
182:
179:
175:
162:
161:
151:
147:
146:
143:
126:
125:documentation
122:
118:
114:
113:
105:
94:
92:
89:
85:
84:
80:
76:
71:
68:
65:
61:
56:
52:
46:
38:
37:
27:
23:
18:
17:
2019:
2013:
1997:Andrzejbanas
1967:Andrzejbanas
1964:
1945:Andrzejbanas
1940:
1936:
1916:
1902:Andrzejbanas
1896:
1889:
1853:
1849:
1822:Andrzejbanas
1764:Andrzejbanas
1736:Andrzejbanas
1717:
1704:Andrzejbanas
1699:
1682:
1675:
1640:
1535:Andrzejbanas
1513:Andrzejbanas
1444:
1402:MOS:JOBTITLE
1396:
1392:
1302:
1298:
1273:
1242:
1224:
1223:
1190:
1095:Andrzejbanas
1053:Andrzejbanas
1022:Andrzejbanas
1019:
1001:
997:
969:
945:Andrzejbanas
931:Andrzejbanas
901:Andrzejbanas
880:Andrzejbanas
777:
749:Andrzejbanas
726:
708:
670:Andrzejbanas
664:
661:TV wikitable
641:— Preceding
638:
613:
569:
500:
488:
479:
478:Create some
470:
462:
454:
446:
441:Vinland Saga
440:
433:
420:
413:
406:
405:
397:
383:
375:
303:
265:
245:project page
233:
227:
221:Japan portal
158:
110:
51:WikiProjects
34:
2023:Eiga-Kevin2
1986:Eiga-Kevin2
1939:, they say
1925:Eiga-Kevin2
1886:Film titles
1860:Eiga-Kevin2
1445:unhelpfully
1397:versions of
1393:Mix of both
1002:Shinkon san
716:5 episodes
443:(TV series)
377:Peer review
241:participate
2062:Categories
1134:Said that
974:Television
589:Television
532:Television
251:, and see
2045:, p. 302.
2016:reference
1251:like this
697:Director
490:translate
189:Biography
130:Biography
70:Biography
39:is rated
1919:and the
1897:Godzilla
1629:Episode
1492:Reidgreg
1465:Reidgreg
1450:Reidgreg
1425:Reidgreg
1406:Reidgreg
1336:see here
1246:contribs
1225:Rosguill
1220:signed,
1165:Reidgreg
987:Episode
835:see here
643:unsigned
415:Pictures
408:Articles
1872:Armegon
1808:Armegon
1750:Armegon
1722:Armegon
1718:support
1700:Support
1600:Armegon
1571:Armegon
1520:Armegon
1471:Armegon
1431:Armegon
1372:Armegon
1340:Armegon
1274:Comment
1236:Legobot
1201:Armegon
1138:Armegon
1087:Armegon
1072:Armegon
1038:Armegon
916:Armegon
886:Armegon
839:Armegon
802:Armegon
763:Armegon
676:Armegon
616:on the
425:: None
418:: None
411:: None
351:history
306:on the
270:Refresh
41:B-class
1790:Do It!
1259:rose64
1147:Bookku
1102:point.
1091:&
991:Ref(s)
700:Notes
694:Title
502:Assess
388:: None
380:: None
47:scale.
1794:Govvy
1685:Govvy
1632:Note
1626:Date
1586:Govvy
1564:Govvy
1549:Govvy
1506:Govvy
1161:WP:3O
1068:WP:3O
981:Show
872:Govvy
857:Govvy
817:Govvy
796:Govvy
780:Govvy
705:1971
691:Year
487:Help
422:Lists
361:purge
356:watch
279:Japan
261:Reiwa
235:Japan
184:Japan
28:This
2049:help
2027:talk
2001:talk
1990:talk
1984:) -
1971:talk
1949:talk
1929:talk
1906:talk
1876:talk
1864:talk
1826:talk
1812:talk
1798:talk
1768:talk
1754:talk
1740:talk
1726:talk
1708:talk
1698:I'd
1689:talk
1635:Ref
1604:talk
1590:talk
1575:talk
1553:talk
1539:talk
1524:talk
1475:talk
1454:talk
1435:talk
1410:talk
1376:talk
1358:talk
1344:talk
1315:talk
1290:talk
1282:this
1278:this
1263:talk
1261:🌹 (
1254:. --
1240:talk
1205:talk
1169:talk
1151:talk
1114:RFC.
1076:talk
1057:talk
1042:talk
1026:talk
949:talk
935:talk
920:talk
905:talk
890:talk
861:talk
843:talk
821:talk
806:talk
784:talk
767:talk
753:talk
713:Yes
680:talk
651:talk
453:Add
346:edit
298:High
119:and
1257:Red
1195:or
1143:go.
608:Mid
263:6)
257:JST
2064::
2035:^
2003:)
1973:)
1951:)
1908:)
1878:)
1828:)
1814:)
1800:)
1792:.
1770:)
1756:)
1742:)
1728:)
1716:I
1710:)
1691:)
1606:)
1592:)
1577:)
1555:)
1541:)
1526:)
1477:)
1456:)
1437:)
1412:)
1378:)
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1292:)
1284:.
1265:)
1207:)
1199:.
1171:)
1153:)
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1059:)
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1028:)
1004:)
951:)
937:)
922:)
907:)
892:)
863:)
855:.
845:)
823:)
808:)
786:)
769:)
755:)
682:)
653:)
445:,
438::
400:–
259:,
187::
73::
2051:)
2025:(
1999:(
1988:(
1969:(
1947:(
1927:(
1904:(
1874:(
1862:(
1824:(
1810:(
1796:(
1766:(
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1738:(
1724:(
1706:(
1687:(
1602:(
1588:(
1573:(
1566::
1562:@
1551:(
1537:(
1522:(
1515::
1511:@
1508::
1504:@
1501::
1497:@
1494::
1490:@
1473:(
1467::
1463:@
1452:(
1433:(
1427::
1423:@
1408:(
1374:(
1356:(
1342:(
1332::
1328:@
1313:(
1288:(
1243:·
1238:(
1203:(
1167:(
1149:(
1140::
1136:@
1097::
1093:@
1089::
1085:@
1074:(
1055:(
1040:(
1024:(
1000:(
947:(
933:(
918:(
903:(
888:(
882::
878:@
874::
870:@
859:(
841:(
819:(
804:(
798::
794:@
782:(
765:(
751:(
678:(
672::
668:@
649:(
620:.
484:.
328:.
310:.
274:)
266:(
163:.
127:.
53::
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