Talk:Islamic State/Archive 15

3570:, if you want a reply, in my case, I would appreciate an actual ping. I don't regularly check every thread (or archive) for previous content. I object to your "doesn’t seem to care" comment which seems argumentative although I think the following content may be valid. I think that for the importance of the argument of page size between 9 and 5 days would need some validating information regarding the number of users that this would seriously effect. One idea is perhaps a comment can be placed in the header of the page mentioning the issue so as to allow people to comment if genuine problems are experienced. I would also suggest that a hatnote be placed on this thread to particularly request comment from users that are actually experiencing access problems and that future threads on this topic might contain this prominent content perhaps even in the title. I see no special advantage in equals 7 days (for the sake of a sexy/familiar number) and would equally support 6 or 5 days if these figures would be an advantage for users. Please also note that I had already suggested 8 days above. 3471:

talk pages—longer than 150k—to be (unnecessary) troublesome for many users, and the (possible) disadvantages of an archiving delay of 8 days, or seven days, or even 6 or 5 days, seem to me less weighty than the disadvantages of talk pages of 200k or 300k for probably many of our visitors. Techno comes with the weekend contributor (WC) who should not be disadvantaged. I don’t see that as a strong argument here. The first purpose of talk page is: solve encyclopedical problems. It is totally unlikely that someone starts a really important encyclopedical discussion here, then 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 days not one other editor reacts on it (because the only other Wikipedian interested in it is WC) and it gets archived before our WC has his day off and time to visit this page. If none of the thousands of other editors visiting this page in 6 days considered that discussion relevant, the chance that it really is relevant, is very very small, and to my opinion not good enough reason for the concession to allow the page to get 200k or 310k long and annoy thousands of other visitors every day.

2955:

therefore I propose now to first shorten it to 10 or 12 days, because the situation now causes too much problems for too much visitors. I’ll be bold and now immediately change it into 12 days: just to see whether it gives a satisfactory result. P123 said on 16 October that the Talk page is also being used chaoticly; I agree, but that is, unfortunately, common practice on every Talk page in Knowledge, and probably can’t easily be improved. I don’t see too much disadvantage or hardship however in having to start again a thread on a topic that has also been discussed 13 days earlier and has been replaced to an archive: if one of the discussants considers that older discussion still very relevant, he can easily include a wikilink to that archived discussion in his new posting (like I did in the beginning of this posting): that is really not too much to ask then, I believe. --

3626:

archiving old threads earlier. Today, sections are archived if for 8 days no new posting was added – my proposal and that of PBS is to shorten that to 7 days. Ofcourse that has a possible, or hypothetical, disadvantage, for a user who has only once in seven or ten days the time to come visit here (‘Weekend Contributor’, WC). (P123 sees that disadvantage also now old threads are archived after 8 days.) I don’t mean to say such WC users are unimportant, on the contrary; but I’ve explained several times that that hypothetical disadvantage is relatively small: if thousand visitors in a week time consider a discussion not worth reacting on, the chance is very small that it is still a relevant discussion, and for me that small chance doesn’t weigh up to the continuous discomfort for most of us to have to deal dayly with an excessively long page.

2649:"Sunni critics, including Salafi and jihadist muftis such as Adnan al-Aroor and Abu Basir al-Tartusi, say that ISIL and related terrorist groups are not Sunnis, but modern-day Khawarij—Muslims who have stepped outside the mainstream of Islam—serving an imperial anti-Islamic agenda. Other critics of ISIL's brand of Sunni Islam include Salafists who previously publicly supported jihadist groups such as al-Qaeda, for example the Saudi government official Saleh Al-Fawzan, known for his extremist views, who claims that ISIL is a creation of "Zionists, Crusaders and Safavids", and the Jordanian-Palestinian writer Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi, the former spiritual mentor to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was released from prison in Jordan in June 2014 and accused ISIL for driving a wedge between Muslims." 803:, it is about navigation. What about encouraging editors to put in brackets beside their new section headings/subheadings which broad category/categories they belong to, in CAPITAL letters? For example, ("ISLAMIC STATE" NAME) or (LEAD WORDING) or (CALIPHATE) or (LEAD INFOBOX), etc. Or encouraging any editor to put in these broad-bracket categories later (maybe several, if several topics are covered), if editors have not put them in? (Complicated cross-referencing and cut-and-pasting will just lead to more confusion, I think.) At least that way, when scanning Talk page discussion to find what has been said before on a particular topic, the topic will jump out and quickly lead to what is being looked for. Or is there is a flaw there? -- 3410:

contribute on their days off, and that day may not be same from week to week. For example, weekend editor sees a talk page thread they are interested in on a Friday afternoon and adds a remark. The following weekend they login on a Sunday evening and can't find the post. Consensus discussion is one of the core values of WP, and limiting it going to get some of the same reactions as limiting free-speech, including outrage, confusion, resentment, etc. It will also increase the likelyhood of repetition of previously discussed ideas. I would rather not have it changed, but if it must be then I can see that a 4 day change could make a considerable improvement over 14d with a reduced impact of a miserly 7d.~

3474:

the end result of it in the archive, and if he is unsatisfied he is very well capable and authorized to re-open that (un)'finished' discussion. Yes, that situation can occur, perhaps in one out of 20 archived discussions. It seems reasonable then to let WC go through the ‘trouble’ to re-start that discussion, rather than leave also those other 19 correctly-finished discussions longer on the page for no other reason than facilitate just this WC, at the cost of hindering hundreds or thousands of other visitors day after day with a (needlessly) very long talk page. I think P123’s idea (of 28Oct) of that extra Table Of Contents referring to the last archive is a good supplementary facility.

3427:

TOC, which includes the discussions in the current Talk page and the last archived Talk page, placed side by side? (perhaps in smaller print to accommodate page width.) It could be made collapsible so that it does not take up space. I think a handy reference like that would be useful, as clicking on the archive to see its TOC and then going back to compare it with the current TOC is cumbersome and extra hassle, especially for those with less powerful computers. If all linked discussions are clearly labelled as such in the TOCs, it would make scanning for discussions easier as well. I am just thinking of ways to make searching for earlier discussions on a particular topic easier. --

3629:

usual, and no problem, to restart a discussion that has been held two or six weeks earlier. Conditions may have changed since then. If some new discussant isn’t aware of that older discussant, another colleague can bring it to his attention, that is no hassle but normal Knowledge discussion ethos, usage, and efficient. And ofcourse, apart from that, it is irritating if someone starts a thread about something that is discussed already in a section a bit higher on the page: just friendly say to him that the discussion is already running in that other section. (It is doubtful if that user would have acted otherwise if the page hadn’t contained 37 sections but 70.)

3013:

70 section headers. But the amount of talk doubled in August to 10k a day. On 6 September Technophant changed the page size to 30 days so the page was "only" 300k in size with 110 section! By the last week in September the page was growing at 15k a day which gave a size of about 450k (which is about what it was when I changed it to 14 days on 1 October, but that left the page at 300k, so I reduced it to 7 days on on 3 October because the amount being added to the page was 22k a day. On 15 October Technophant changed it back to 14 days without apparently considering how big that would make the page (either in size or number of sections).--

1326:- Please ask this vindictive person, who drove me away from editing Knowledge, one question: "Local" consensus by who? The (very) small number of people who actually drove me away from editing this article? I have not edited Knowledge for over a month, and ALL my previous edits to the "article" were supported by reliable sources without violating policy not once. I also fixed problems that no one else knew how to fix. Anyway, let him enjoy his life behind a computer screen. I will not be sucked into this matter once again... Now, they're doing the same to 562: 1707:"The Lead is not for stating any criticism from any source". None of your statements have been retracted. When I pushed POV, which I still contest is in tune with the POV of a large section of Islam, I indicated my motivation as being against "feeding radicalism" and gave my clear statement that "A further radicalisation of Islam that results from the false endorsement of murderers as being "jihadists" will result in a perpetuation of needless death." This is an example of openness related to motivation. 2233:

designations near the beginning of the Lead and to call groups like this "jihadist". But I can't see why it is objectionable to put in the small footlet that keeps being removed which links "jihadist" to the "Criticism" section where that word is questioned. It is an unobtrusive way of calling attention to the fact that there is this debate about whether the word is an accurate descriptor, and the word is still there in the text to comply with RS usage which WP has to reflect.

1771:

maybe dozens of countries to the list because of routine intelligence sharing. Willingness to fight does not equal fighting. If ISIL moved into any other country (say Egypt or Cyprus to pick a near neighbor) that country would fight them. If Israel tied future intervention to an attack on Jordan, that is weird because Jordan is already fighting in the air and Israel is not a guarantor of Jordanian sovereignty. Would Jordan even what their help?

31: 1571:

in with the support of an arguably jihadic type defence against the arguably wayward ISIL sect) is arguably far more notable than the somewhat more predictable involvement of Israel. In essence Iran has joined the same side of a military struggle as the United States. The placement of three citations on Israel simply to say that it is involved is uncalled for and unjustified. Can you cite any WP guideline to support this type of use?

983:

more relevant location. The redundant heading could be left, perhaps being altered with a suitable explanation and a note with any additional explanation could be left with the signature below. Once relevant editors had "picked up the thread", the new and redundant title could be deleted." With the hatnote there should be less new topics generated and the rest may be just details. (Some bracketed comments on headings have been added).

817:+1 to P123ct1's comments. Also, just because there's a lot of discussion at the moment doesn't mean that this always will be true. As some of the lingering issues get resolved I suspect that other related pages may become more active while the content in this article will become (and has become) more stable. In other words, we're having growing pains, however that's not a reason to bypass consensus and limit discussion.~ 1257:

with the ISIS to ISIL discussion, which seemed to work well (although I think a couple of editors mistakenly thought "Islamic State" was part of that discussion). There was a clear decision and everyone knew where they stood. Only when that doesn't work would outside dispute resolution (opinion from uninvolved editors/admins) be needed, and I can't see that happening except in possibly one or two areas. --

3303:

private discussion with P123 on his talk page). Gregkaye suggests manual archiving, but like PBS I see too many disadvantages in it. Supersaiyen(25 Oct) reacts beside the point too. PBS makes then an interesting calculation, expecting with 12 days delay a page size 264 (nevertheless it is at this moment, after archiving this morning, 331k!); with 10 days delay a page size of 220k, with 7 days size 154k.

879:, I did not reply to your suggestions re heading text. I'm more than open, if that is the right word, to an advocation of a bracketed format. Caps could also be good. As a starter I think it is important to encourage the use of less threads with clear general titles. To this end I have boldly added a note at the top of the page (just beneath the "Requested moves to date" colapsable box) to say: 464:

nations that are involved. At a glance the list is just a bunch of words. With the flags it clearly becomes a list of nations. There is an instant visual clue regarding where the list of nations or groups starts and stops. Also, if a "reader" is looking for a nation and knows the visual appearance of the flag, that reader is given a choice as to whether to look for the name or the flag.

2832: 514: 1920:, I was wrong when I said that most editors didn't support criticism on the lead. I have already told you I am sorry. As everyone can clearly see, I'm willing to reach a consensus and I'm willing to agree with criticism on the lead in order to reach this much needed consensus. Let's end this pointless dispute and stop fanning the flames. I want to get along with you and everyone. 1113:. I think one only has to consider what you would think if someone, with whom you are debating an issue in the article, insisted on altering one of your own contributions to a talk page, to see that you would probably object strongly, and for that reason the general community consensus is do not edit other people's contributions to a talk page over their objections. -- 3306:

several days we can or should reduce that further to 8 or 7 days. I assume, if a discussion—on this hot-item-article—didn’t get a new posting in six days, we won’t do much harm by archiving it. If necessary, someone can always reopen a discussion that has been held before, and if he chooses so he can include a link to the archived discussion. --

4036: 1592:

are ~20 genuine opponent nations that are given no actual citation at all. Your actions on this talk page and in the article push for a minimisation of the presentation of Islamic criticism of ISIL while seemingly wanting to hype up a presentation of your alleged Israeli opposition. Can what brings you to push both of these issues? See

1674:

I have, and there is a consensus, then let's remove Israel; I don't care if it's on the list or not. My only intention was to improve this article. I'm not minimisating criticism by Muslims, I just don't want ANY particular criticism on the lead. I am not the one pushing my subjective POV aggressively. Stop defaming me.

3513:@Greg: Ofcourse I respect your opinion, but you don’t react on my arguments. Yes, it surely may facilitate a (supposed) user who is away for 7 or 8 or 9 days to leave discussions here 8-9 days after last new posting; but is that then worth the price of those thousands of other users having to cope continuously with 3253:), it was then changed to 14 days (by Technophant). As on average about 22K is added a day there will be a page size on average of about 14*22 = 308k if it is left at 14 (See the maths in my previous posting to this section). If one assumes that editors continue to contribute on average 22k a day and sections: 1897:

consistently reverted by this one editor. The following misrepresentative text has been on display uncontested for over a week now. I have bent over backwards to present an olive branch in which I also presented the option of correcting misrepresentations. It is now fair to set the record straight.

1196:

good relations with other editors. Your heavy-handed approach has created resentments among several established editors here including myself. If you dislike moderating this article so much I would suggest you go find some other project to contribute to. Like you said, if we need help we can go to AN. ~

3650:

Corriebertus says it is quite usual, and no problem, to restart a discussion that has been held two or six weeks earlier. It is a very big problem! It can mean going round in circles over the same points and endless repetition of arguments that have been made before, because there are newer editors

3625:

My worry and the reason I started this discussion, is: this talk page being far over 100k and over 200k (today it is 288k, takes about 10 seconds to open the page) is cumbersome for many every-day-users and less-frequent-users, and that trouble seems avoidable with relatively little disadvantages, by

3473:

Other scenario: a discussion is running since some time, WC has at least one time contributed, then suddenly 5 or 7 days no new posting is added and it gets archived. WC sees the section disappeared, will understand that ‘his’ discussion is ‘ended’ and archived, and he is very well capable to look up

3470:

Techno (27Oct) advises to change from 14d to 10d, that is impossible because since 26 Oct it is 10d. Shortening from 14d to 10d did not improve the situation much: on 25Oct by 14d the Talk page was 318k, today after shortening and three days archiving, the page is 314k. As I said 26Oct, I assume long

3390:

The way you linked this to the other section is so obvious, didn't spot it until you pointed it out! (Am only familiar with very basic wikicode.) Then I think all related discussions should be linked to each other in that way, for easy reference to other discussion either on the Talk page or in the

1271:

Sometimes getting outside opinions (like through RfC) isn't ideal because the general public isn't as knowledgeable on the topic as those who edit here regularly. Dispute Resolution is different. I believe it's a type of arbitration where all sides put forth their arguments and an mediator sorts them

777:

In other cases where new topics are started I would suggest that editors be bold and cut thread content and paste it into a more relevant location. The redundant heading could be left, perhaps being altered with a suitable explanation and a note with any additional explanation could be left with the

463:

I personally think that the flags add value. I used to work in psychometric testing and one of the differences that was demonstrated between people is that some people absorb information better from visual inputs and others from verbal. A reader can scan the page without reading and absorb that the

3628:

P123 yesterday brought up a new argument: users have to be well informed about previous discussions on this page before they comment in a running discussion, therefore the talk page must contain as many old sections as possible. Sorry Mr P123, that is nonsense, excuse me my blunt speech. It is quite

3012:

it fell from 240k to 138k or put another way about 10k a day was being added to the page. On 11 August Technophant changed the time from 14 days to 48 days. That was bound to lead to problems as even then the page was about 5k a day so that would give a projected size of at least 257k with more than

2670:

and many of your edits touch subjects that have been much debated and disputed before you came, often at great length and for weeks, I think it is best to suggest your edits on the Talk page first, rather than editing straight away, and I think that should apply to everyone from now on. Nothing was

2604:

It was removed days ago by mistake. I was editing the criticism section trying to improve it, then I thought it was fine as it is and forgot to put that part again. Of course "not jihad at all" should be on the criticism section, and it should not be removed. I am really sorry for my mistake. It was

1896:

unjustly presents that there are no supporters of criticism being added to the lead other than me. This is very far from the truth. Editing practices are displayed elsewhere that demonstrate that several editors have been consistently attempting to replace valid criticisms into the lead only to be

1673:

I added Israel because it's providing important intelligence support and says it will fight ISIL on the ground if they reach Jordan. I think that makes Israel an opponent. Before there was a list of conditions below the opponents' list, but there is not anymore. So I may have committed a mistake. If

1570:

or any other of its many arguably controversial issues) then certainly we can and should write content so as to highlight any and all of the relevant issues. However, as it is we have three citations to verify a single word of content text. The involvement of Iran (an Islamic state that has joined

770:

Again I think sometimes the headings may be at least part of the problem. There was at least one occasion where a thread was started with an NPOV heading. My response, probably wrong, was to start another thread on much the same topic just below. In a case like this a proposal followed by an edit

709:

Using Cluebots archive index feature would help, but it wouldn't retroactively index previously archived threads. The only way to do that would be copy/paste ALL old threads into the talk page right before it makes it's automated pass (or manually trigger a sweep somehow). Lots of work, but lots of

3551:

If Corriebertus really believes that editors are going to laboriously search through the archives for previous discussions on a particular topic to read them before commenting then he has more faith in human nature than I do. The most they will do is look at discussion on the Talk page in front of

3517:

of a page of 271,000 bytes (as it is now, with archiving delay of 8 days!)? Why can’t we ask of the ‘Weekend Contributor’ (etc.) to go and look in the archive? We have archives, so we can expect and ask of users to use them occasionally, can’t we? The 'normal' every-day-user of this page every time

3476:

At this point, I understand that Techno favours 10d but is unaware that 10d is already in action and didn’t help much. P123 follows Techno, and doesn’t seem to care for those (assumed) many readers who will continuously be disadvantaged with a talk page of over 200 or 300k. PBS advises a delay of 7

3030:

I didn't "conclude" it, I was here and I experienced it: it was much easier to find content then. Probably because editors used to comment in an orderly, not haphazard way as they do now. For example, inserting comments into threads out of sequence was rare then, but it has become almost the norm

2043:

That's not criticism or opinion, but human rights reports by international organizations. Don't you know the difference? Really? So according to you the opinion of an imam has more value than the FACTS stated by the UN and Amnesty on their human rights reports? After saying this, don't expect us to

1770:

I drafted the wording limiting the opponents list based on consensus. If someone removed that, shame on them, and it should be replaced. Intelligence support should not qualify a country as an opponent for purposes of our list. Intelligence support is hard to verify by its nature, and we could add

1195:

Since I started working on this page in June I've put in anywhere from 2 hours to 12+ hours a week curating, researching, and discussing this topic. Before August there were zero (none) user problems, edit wars, or consensus problems. I've very much enjoyed being a part of this project and have had

1048:

I think editors moving around Talk comment would be a recipe for disaster. It could easily lead to (a) muddles and confusion and (b) as PBS says disputes between the original editor and whoever does the moving. I also think it would be unreasonable to expect an uninvolved admin to oversee this, but

982:

Agreed and, as there is a clear hatnote request that editors check for similar threads, I don't think that editors will complain about moved text. My earlier suggestion was: "In other cases where new topics are started I would suggest that editors be bold and cut thread content and paste it into a

888:

I am more than happy for this text to be amended or removed but also thought that we might build on something like this. A similar text could even be converted into a title of its own collapsible box which might contain any further brief guidelines/suggestions. From what I've done which direction

737:

has commented above concerning the potential problem of the large number of headings on this talk page and of problems in judging consensus if issues are raised simultaneously in more than one occasion. I suggest that the majority of this problem relates to navigation. I suggest that, at the very

2433:

a noun. ISIL describe themselves in terms of jihad and they have declared themselves caliphate. English grammar works with adjectives preceding nouns. The phrase is fine. Caliphate, to my understanding, is meant to be widely supported by Islam if it is to have legitimacy and jihad is, at most,

1591:

You attempt to justify your unnecessary triple citation of Israel's (non-military) opposition with the statement, "There are also three citations to United States opposition, just to name am example." You will have seen that the US is the sole nation that has been given three citations while there

1256:

Exactly. No-one here deserves that. I think failure to reach consensus is mostly our faults, for letting discussion drag on getting nowhere. Perhaps there should be a more concerted effort to reach consensus after long debate, instead of letting stalemate set in. It could be done by "vote", as

3426:

Technophant makes a good point about weekend editors. I think 7 days is too short and 14 days will be too long, so 10 days seems a good compromise. For editors to keep track of where discussions are, would it be an idea to have a second TOC, placed at the top of the Talk page, after the regular

1936:

Comment: Many editors, as well as not being willing to just wipe out other people's edits, would have seen content, such as is presented below, was with error and retracted. They may have also done so when the olive branch was offered. It was your rightful responsibility to have added corrective

1108:

to "override community consensus on a wider scale". If an editor is behaving in a way that other editors consider disruptive then there are the usual channels available to deal with such editors and those do not involve modifying that editor's edits over the objections of that editor. Editors who

3409:

I find a certain amount of irony that this discussion about "TPTL" is making the problem worse however it does need to be discussed. I propose a change from algo=14d to algo=10d. Rationale: the weekend contributor. I'm not one, but concessions need to made for the Wikipedian who only has time to

3302:

P123 starts talking(25 Oct) about ‘very orderly…’, but that seems to me not the main point of this section. For that reason, I also didn't read PBS’s directly-underneath-reaction of 26Oct,14:05 (I dislike such later ‘in-between-placing’ of postings: please post always on the bottom, or go into a

2254:

But every word can be objected by someone. "Islam," "Sunni," "caliphate," etc. are challenged by adherents who abhor ISIL. Every religion has disputes about language with different branches taking different views. We can't give selective disclaimers to appease every faction. The word is use in a

1694:

What the hell are you talking about "defaming" you. I presented a factual list of your edits which demonstrate that, while all other editors are editing to add criticism into the lead, you are the one person continually reverting their edits and I asked you a question regarding the way you were

742:

to suggest title changes. Alternatively perhaps bold title changes could be made especially with the addition of explanatory suffixes such as: (present consensus reached) or (enacted) and similar. When a new discussion opens on a similar theme a previous discussion, in some cases a note may be

2002:

Current criticisms in the lead include: "The United Nations and Amnesty International have accused the group of grave human rights abuses and Amnesty International has found it guilty of ethnic cleansing on a "historic scale"." Do you want these critical comments to be cleaned out as well? If

1972:

And about the usage of the word "jihad", there is a lot of debate between Muslims -and non-Muslims- and Muslim clerics and scholars about the meaning of this word. So that what IS is doing "is not jihad" is a subjective personal opinion and not a fact. Most sources use this word to describe IS'

921:

I think there should be some leeway to move comments made in a new duplicate section to an older discussion that is more or less the same topic as long as you notify the user on their talk page or edit summary what was done and why. One person could say it's illegal refactoring, however if done

3305:

I see nobody objecting to the idea that a page longer than 100k—and the more so longer than 200k, longer than 300k—is unacceptably troublesome for many users. Therefore, I now again reduce the archiving delay after last new posting, from 12 to 10 days, and if necessary—which I expect—in one or

3273:

However one additional factor that has a disproportionate affect on the numbers is that the longer sections are left on the page, the more chance there is that editors add a "me to" to the bottom of a section and then it hangs around for yet another time out period. So the larger the time for

1177:

that says that the proposals discussed here for rearranging the page are forbidden, just that when a dispute over that refactoring occurs then revert the change, or by extension if other editors think that changes to the format (restructuring) are undesirable then stop making such changes. --

2954:

Colleagues, the Talk Page today seems excessively long (318,000bytes). Sections are now automatically archived after 14 days without new posting, but that apparently results in this too long Talk page. There was some resistance (P123,Technophant) to shorten it to 7 days (PBS advised 7 days),

2665:

I think it really belongs in the "ideology and beliefs" section where it is. There is a special link for "Khawarij" in "Criticisms", which when you click on it leads directly to that passage you quote from "Ideology and beliefs" and I think that is probably enough. Btw, as you are new here

2529:. In the "Criticism" section, some of the words in the quotation from the Islamic scholars' letter of criticism – namely "not jihad at all" – were cut out. On what grounds? I simply can't understand why "not jihad at all" was excised. (I can think of only one reason, a determination that 2232:

Footnotes should not be put in the Lead just to appease editors. This article is for Wikpedia readers. They can find the footnotes for statements in Lead elsewhere in the article. That is the normal practice in Knowledge. It is also normal practice in Wikpedia to put the country terrorist

1429:

According to Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel is ready to fight ISIL in any way it's is asked to. He didn't want to tell more, but presumably is due to the fact that Arab countries are part of the Coalition. This is the same stance Israel had on the Gulf War. Also, according to Israeli

3477:

days. I advise a delay of 7 days or even shorter (6, 5 days — I don’t see (much) harm in that, if with delay 7 days the page is still over 200k). Two against two: I’ll be bold again and now reduce the delay to 8 days. I very much hope that new discussants will join in this discussion. --

1486:

Yes. I added three citations because I could not find a citation which stated all the info, as happened with other nations such as Spain. I thought it was better to quote all the info. If you can find a source with all the info (I couldn't) I'd be grateful if you updated it. Thank you.

1164:. My simple solution of using 7 days to do the job automatically has generated a section of 3,300+ words of about 20k. Why would an uninvolved administrator want to take time every day to adjust the page sections if each change has the potential of generating this sort of discussion? 3203:

It is a bad idea to hand archive sections, for two reasons. The first it is a high manual maintenance issue (it never ends) and selectively choosing what to archive has non-NPOV issues which leads to disputes. It is much better to allow a bot to automatically archive sections. --

691:: I have seen the examples, but wouldn't it be simpler just to have the current and latest archive's TOCs side by side at the beginning? That would make searching easier and then the number of days could be reduced to 7 or even less without any problem, I would have thought. -- 568:

it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Not sure how far back that is. Can you provide a version of this recent history section that you want restored? It is likely the information was just reorganized

3552:

them, and sometimes not even then, as some of the new threads opened and edits made by some of the newer editors here amply demonstrate. It is quite depressing. The more there is on the Talk page, the more likely editors are to at least notice what has gone on before. --

3326:

is good at those. "Anchor links" could perhaps even link discussions on the current Talk page with archived discussion. I don't know how feasible this would be. Should this comment perhaps start another thread/discussion/section, rather than be mixed in with this one?

2671:

resolved before the AN/I on words like "jihadist", etc and I think it is better to actively drive to determine consensus now, so that some proper progress can be made in developing this article. At the moment it is stuck in a mire of disagreement and this can't go on. --

848:

I think and hope that things will be on a general trend to settling but probably with blips along the way. Back on topic, yep, cross refs prob won't help much. Clarifying titles and shifting contents to prevent the same discussion occurring in multiple locations will.

3599:

the purpose of the minthreadstoarchive value is to prevent disruption caused by the archival bots' moves clogging the page history and watchlists. Given how busy this page is right now, that probably is not a major concern so reducing the value to 1 is a good idea.

1540:

I think I haven't misunderstood the citations purpose. There are also three citations to United States opposition, just to name am example. I don't know which one gives the clearest atteststion. If I knew, then I would have removed one or two. What do you think?

3651:

on board who don't know what has gone on before and edit and people just say, "Oh, we've talked about this ad nauseam before. What do you think you are doing?" Much time can be wasted. In the past week or so there has been a lot of this on the Talk page.

3536:

Ten days minimum. Looking for previous discussion in the archives is cumbersome and a big hassle. It is obvious that navigability is at the heart of this issue. To overlook this is peculiarly short-sighted, IMO. Is anyone keeping track of consensus here?

3441:

7 days will cover weekends as the minim time a section will be on a page is 8 days and that assumes all the conversation about it takes place the first day (this is the reason that the length of RMs were changed from five to seven days a few years ago). --

2289: 1740:

You may not want any criticism in the Lead, but a Lead is supposed to summarise an article, and a strong feature is the "Criticisms" section which needs to be summarised. This has been said more than once recently and it seems you are ignoring it.

4201:

Soldiers of IS call themselves as ad dawlat al islaamiya so we need to change the title. Ad dawlat al islaamiya means "the Islamic State" so why don't we change the article's title? We can use "the" which helps us to distinguish the article from

3467:

I consider the discussion about links between discussions (P123,26Oct) off-topic here, and disturbing because such technicalities will deter people from entering the discussion what this section was meant for. So please do that somewhere else.

2729: 3756:

I also don't see a "military wing" as the whole organization is a military operation including occupying forces and the media wing (Psyops). The content, however, is good and could be expanded. Maybe a better article name? "ISIL operations"?

2623:@defame, I have directly presented verifiable facts and asked legitimate questions. I am not the one wiping out other editors contributions. You seem remarkably adept at multi change edits as is demonstrated by your editing pattern shown at 1028:

If an editor who creates a new section, or uses unusual indentation, has his or her contribution altered and (s)h reverts the change, unless the changes were made by an uninvolved administrator, then no editor is to revert the revert (See

883:"NOTE: This talk page has a history of high levels of activity. Please make reasonable checks to see whether additional content can be added to existing threads and please make new section titles as general as may be practically helpful." 833:

You are very optimistic! I think this article will remain unstable for some time yet. There are quite a few major unresolved issues, and there is a core group of edits that are constantly being challenged, as they have been for months.

2269:(edit conflict) True, except that in this article the terms "jihadist" and "caliphate" are more disputed than most in connection with this group, aren't they? Perhaps there should be a similar footnote for "caliphate" in the Lead. -- 3972: 1099:

Technophant I think you are Wiki-lawyering. There is a strong tradition that if an editor objects to an edit of their talk page contributions by another editor then the edit is reverted see for example the guidance at the start of

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added at the end of one discussion so as to direct editors to the other. Cross referencing notes might also be added under headings. In the most part I guess a lot of this is common sense but I thought it worth a mention.

254: 4000: 2152:, You have just present a conclusion regarding a matter and have even done so prior your presentation of the link to the related discussion. You have rightly indicate that your comments along with the canvassing comment by 3962: 3924: 3918: 3712: 1962:

By Muslims? Ok, which Muslims? Islam and Muslims are not a monolithic bloc. Some agree with IS, many don't. IS has also been criticized by Christians, Jews, Buddhists, atheists, etc. Do we state it on the Lead, too?

3930: 3906: 2492:

Gregkaye, we have already had a discussion about this. So stop pushing your subjective, personal POV. They are jihadists, according to most sources, and the word jihad will not be removed. The same about caliphate.

132: 3359:). So for clarity what one usually wants to use for links are the section headers, because that is what people see on the page and are usually the most obvious names to use. If not then the pipe trick can be used 3321:

Slightly off-topic, wouldn't it be a good idea to provide links between discussions that are related? I don't mean just title links, but actual "anchor links", as I believe they are called. (See "Names section.)

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I can vouch for that: before August there were no edit wars, user problems or consensus problems. The working atmosphere on this page has transformed completely and I believe it has driven some editors away.

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We only include countries as opponents who actually take military action, supply weapons or humanitarian aid. We don't include words only. I'm not aware of Israel doing anything beyond talking against ISIL.

1002:

Probably the best thing to do is take the new redundant section, change the == level to === level and tack it onto the end of the sister thread. That way no text is lost, and # wlinks aren't broken. It's the

1709:

You want to remove Islamic and, at preference, other criticism of ISIL from the lead and also attempt to unnecessarily highlight the involvement of Israel in relation to a conflict in which it is not engaged

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started and that editor has since stopped editing. I prefer to deal with things in a collaborative way. While some editor here could be called "POV pushers" they are also mostly constructive editors, so

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Just as a comment, from June (when I first came here) to around the beginning of September this Talk page was very orderly! There were no problems at all going back to find discussions and threads. --

1516:

further down the page. Citations are used to attest to the verifiability of information on the page. Which of the citations do you think gives the clearest attestation? Knowledge is not a directory.

922:

properly should be viewed as a beneficial type of moderating. Also P123ct1 has made comments about not liking === subheadings within threads but it's not uncommon or inappropriate from my experience. ~

4077:

is to have article titles that people might actually search for. This seems one of the least likely names. I'm not even sure it was a good idea to create it. Nice piccies but that's not a good reason.

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with an archive date of 60 days. At that time the page was 180k (about 8-9 days at current input) but then there was on average only 3k a day being added. On the 31 July it was changed to 14 days and

907:

The note is a very good idea, and the more prominent the better. Anything to bring more discipline to the Talk page. Try the note and if that doesn't work, a collapsible box with more guidelines. --

774:(I also think that sub headings may be less of a problem than new threads. The topic will be kept in one place and in some cases the use of sub heads will assist in the clarification of subtopics). 2773:

From what I understand they don't believe a muslim shouldn't need a passport to travel to another country in the caliphate. On a related note I've heard they are pressing their own license plates.~

3355:

provides are alternative hidden section headers where section headers exist or provide hidden section headers to specific paragraphs (for example I have added an anchor at the top of this page to

267:

may refers more to the governmental/command structure. A part from the Independent headline I have yet to see an anchor point of caliphate to government/ territory or other term. Any thoughts?

2312: 2533:'s point on "jihadist" should not be made anywhere in the article, which seems unreasonable; this is an appropriate place for it to be made.) Could the responsible editor explain, please? -- 2511:

We know your views. Give other editors a chance to weigh in on the proposed "footlet" solution. Gregkaye is trying to offer alternatives to removing "jihadist" and qualifying "caliphate". --

1979:

So this word should not be removed, as a user is doing again and again, and there shouldn't be small notes along with this word on the Lead reading that some argue IS is not a jihadi group.

1240:

S are a last resort for dealing with intractable problems. Content disputes that can't be resolved by consensus should go to Dispute Resolution so they don't fester here as endless debates.~

255:

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=(ISIS+OR+ISIL+OR+%22Islamic+State%22)+AND+caliphate+AND+(government+OR+territory+OR+land+OR+system)

2909:

Where did you find that book? My search for it resulted in a not-found. If it is not published by a known publisher (as in a vanity press) we can't use it as a reference or a "see also."

1976:

There have already been long and strong discussions about the usage of this word on this article, and the conclusion was that the usage of this word on this article is not incorect at all.

1512:

doesn't go beyond stating: "Knowledge's Verifiability policy requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations". See also content of

352:

Moved the footnote away from "simultaneously ... status of caliphate" as it does not reflect that statement. WP needs to reflect sources, not introduce "improved" versions of sources. --

4125:

I'm really just keeping a watching brief on these articles, I cannot divert more time to them and in any case have a new unrelated Knowledge project in mind which may take a lot of time.

1802:

and non-State actors with military operations past, present or pending against ISIL in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon; (b) States directly supplying weapons to ground forces fighting ISIL; (c)

1985:

This is an encyclopedic article, not propaganda or an opinion piece. Knowledge is not a platform for expressing personal opinions. This article should be objective, clean and arranged.

1361:

not casting judgement on any specifics of your case but at this point your editing skills with or without relation to your arabic proficiency would be very welcome here and I have seen

2044:

believe that you're editing in good faith and objectively. This is no more than your bizarre, subjective personal opinion. I won't buy your distortions and manipulations. No one will.

1447:

So I think Israel is clearly an opponent, and as such it should be on the opponents' list, specifically on the "other state opponents" section. I have added the flag and the sources.

584: 2932: 620: 612: 318:"On 29 June 2014, ISIL removed "Iraq and the Levant" from its name and began to refer to itself as the "Islamic State", simultaneously giving itself the governmental status of 3631:

We should strive towards pages under 110k if possible without great disadvantage, that is simply a technical necessity on Internet, which is also why we have made it our own

439:

The question doesn't have to be "flags vs. prose"; it could be "does this section need flags at all". Flags are not necessary for bulleted lists and my position is that per

1755:

I am not the only one who opposes to put criticism on the lead. But as I said before, if criticism is on the lead, then it should be general and not partial or paricular.

1966:

Criticism of IS by Muslims is clearly stated on the criticism section, along with all other criticisms, and where ALL criticism should be (the section exists for that!)

2122: 447:), we do not need them here. It's especially distracting in this case since some entries have flags and others do not. I do not see how they are useful here. Regards, 2728:

I got caught out by a false news story just recently and this may be similar. According to pictures from UK "RS"ish, the Daily Mail, the passports have the writing:

1406:

In case a page on the massacre of Badoush prison inmates will be written in the future, I would like to make aware of this Human Rights Watch report on the massacre:

583:

To interpret the IP's request for Cannolis, the IP wants the timeline section to be restored to this article. It has just been removed as it duplicated some of the

2586:: You owe it to editors to explain your bizarre edit. Why were those words removed? I set up the "Criticism" section specifically for, guess what, criticisms. -- 738:

least, editors should be at liberty to change headings on any threads that they start and that other editors should be able to add notes under headings perhaps in

4225:

applies anymore, but we need to disambiguate the "Islamic State" as a too ambiguous name. I don't exactly agree with it, but unfortunately that's the way it is.

1508:, I think that you are working according to a misunderstanding of citations and their purpose in Knowledge. You can make further checks but from what I've seen 390:

section of the article be presented in prose rather than a bunch of flags? I've already changed the "Other non-state opponents" subsection so it is a paragraph.

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there were 98 sections (excluding another 17 subsections) and the page was 302k in size. On that day you added just over 1K to the page. As I said before the

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I agree. As stated above "I think that a big question is whether the article should be kept or deleted". The other problem is the confusion of designations

3878:

All the searches really say is that these terms are used in connection with ISIL but not saying whether the capabilities / capacities are for or against them.

2651:

This is on the section "Ideology and beliefs", but this is no more than criticism. So I think it should be moved to the criticism section. What do you think?

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I have put the hatnote above the TOC in boldface, to make it stand out and have a better chance of getting editors' attention. I hope this is acceptable. --

631:

you have expressed a desire to have an index of topics. This is not something to be done by hand (it is too much work), there are two options available (see

3274:

archiving the more zomby sections remain on the page, so those numbers will expand disproportionately the longer the sections remain on the page to archive.

3689:

looks to have been possibly split from this article. Just directing knowledgeable editors to make sure it's in line with WP policies and existing articles.

3259:

If it remains at 12 days (set yesterday), 264k average size and at least 45 sections (there were 53 sections after the most recent archive and a size of ).

3249:

It was over 450k when I adjusted it from 30 to 7. So no it is nothing to do with the 30 days. When I changed it to 7 it fell to about 22*7 = 154k (see

2948:

For reasons of this talk page being too long, I deliberately put this posting in this new section. For the foregoing discussion (2 Sept–20 Oct2014), see

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that reformatted the columns so they take up less space. I think they should stay as is. Further information about the opposition can be added as prose.~

1109:

edit war changes to other editors contributions to a talk page over the objections of the editor are likely to find themselves on the wrong side of an

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There is now another link in the first para of the "Criticism" section, which leads directly to criticisms in the "Ideology and beliefs" section. ~

1430:

officials, Israel is ready to militarily help Jordan fend off ISIL militants. And also, Israel is providing the Coalition with intelligence on ISIL.

1075:. There's no need to restrict these changes to "uninvolved admins" as long as they are done with care, per guidelines, and per consensus agreement. ~ 1956:

The criticism of IS should be on the criticism section. Is that difficult to understand? Me and most users (with one exception) have made it clear.

1104:. It has nothing to do with consensus, but is a simple device to avoid edit wars on talk pages and fairness—because it is too easy for members of a 3859: 3129:

As I said before this is twice the size of the recomended size in the guidline and also your comments on consensus has to be weighed against the

1465:

is there any reason for adding three citations to Israel's opposition? Many nations are added to the list with no citation or perhaps just one.

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At 14 days, 308k average size and at least 50 sections (there were 58 sections before the most recent archive a day or two short of 14 days)

1703:, the question regarding your motivation not only remains unanswered and must remain in context. Your repeated baseline argument stated in 481:

That is interesting. For this very good reason I think the flags should stay. There is a lot of information to take in in this section. --

287:

ISIL or "Islamic State" is a self-declared Caliphate (a geopolitical entity), a body with governmental system with control over a territory.

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method of doing this. Prob. no need to notify the OP outside edit summary because they can look in the TOC or Ctrl-F and find their post. ~

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The military wing can't really split from the owners using it. Maybe a rename to "ISIL's military" or "Military of ISIL" would suffice.

3171:

11 Logical Order in Lead (See related discussion at #7 their actions are “not jihad at all, but rather, warmongering and criminality”)

3117:

The number deleted is not the same as the number added because many editors are still commenting on the sections that are already there.

1982:

Disruption can't go on. This user has been warned several times, and he keeps disrupting the article. I think something should be done.

1969:

I have removed it from the Lead. Let's keep this article clean and arranged. The Lead is not for stating any criticism from any source.

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contains about sixty-four thousand words at the end of August this talk page page contained forty-one thousand words not far short of

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for this function at the moment. I will set up the template request anyway so that if it becomes active an index will be generated in

2200:

Yes, it is, but only in summary form, without footnotes, and not giving individual examples of criticism. There is a difference. --

251:

On 29 June 2014, ISIL ... began to refer to itself as the "Islamic State", declaring the territory under its control a new caliphate

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archives, because just having the name means laboriously trawling through the TOC and/or the archives. I was simply thinking about

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5 their actions are “not jihad at all, but rather, warmongering and criminality” (See related discussion at #Logical Order in Lead)

1562:

The single piece of information presented is a single word, "Israel" within the context of an article about ISIL. My view is that

3126:

If the archive length changed to 7 then the size will be about 42-4 (archived)=38 sections and the size will be about 7*22 - 154k.

3235:

I think it was recently moved from 30 days to 14, so still pretty early. However, I wasn't really following the previous thread.

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and the head section of the infobox presents: Islamic State Army. I edited to the use of consistent wording but was reverted.

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Please place any additional terms that you would like to have searched here or below, sign if you want to, all terms welcome:

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Islamic State, On 29 June 2014 - present, but with many governments and Islamic groups prefering previous terms of reference.

2255:

restricted sense and we have a Wikilink to lead the reader to an article on that restrictive sense. The Wikilink is enough.

2214:

In a perfect world, but anything critical that goes in the lead that is not footnoted to death gets challenged and deleted.

3492:

I wouldn't want it to go as low as 7 days if possible but 8 - 9 sounds great for people taking the week off or weekenders.

3123:

The size of the archive will be about 14*22 = 308k (it is 10K larger because of the section pulled back from the archives).

4260:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

4177:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

3806:

I think that a big question is whether the article should be kept or deleted. In the meanwhile I suggest a stopgap title

97: 89: 84: 72: 67: 59: 4206:. They now do not call themselves as ad dawlat al islaamiyah fil eiraaq wa ash shaam. So we need to change the title. -- 3810:. Military wing may imply a defined structure perhaps with a hierachy that is distinct from other areas of authority. 3100:

By date stamp (and known edits to sections without date stamps) four sections would have been archived with 7 days set:

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should we take? The general feeling is that more order is needed - what level of standardization should be advocated?

3120:

So with 14 days we can expect there to be 2*14 28 new sections and 8 will be archived making a pool of about 50 headers

4221:

Yes, but we are going by what the government calls them, not media. Therefore ISIL -- not ISIS or IS. I'm not sure if

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So the "Muslims have criticized ISIL’s actions, authority and theological interpretations." has no place on the Lead.

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I have lightly edited this template (for consistency), so the wording here will not be quite the same as it is now. --

2705:

The Islamic State seems to be issuing passports over the last month or so in order give itself an air of legitimacy.

2605:

not my intention to hide anything as was wrongly claimed above. I am not an expert on Knowledge, I am new here. And

1160:

is for, but I doubt that there will be many volunteers as moderating this page has all the appearance and appeal of

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An increase of 10 new sections (less one pulled back from the archive). Which is an average of 2 new sections a day

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signature below. Once relevant editors had "picked up the thread", the new and redundant title could be deleted.

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anything the Islamic criticisms are of more relevance than anything that organisations like the UN have to say.

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Average of 22K a day (my previous guess/estemate was accurate and it means that 22K a day is fairly stable)

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related to defence. The phrase works. That may be as far as it goes. The phrase might alternatively read:

3640: 3632: 3527: 3522:. So, I once again plea to shorten the delay to 7 days (and if necessary perhaps after that to 6 days). -- 3519: 3514: 3482: 3311: 2960: 1415: 448: 2627:. The very fact that you even considered removing this key part of the text raises serious questions. 960:

Felino has opened a new section on a much reworked topic. This long thread has been a waste of time. --

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It does look like a split, but i'm not aware of any discussion about doing this. It also comes close to

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to be topic banned from Syrian Civil War/ISIL broadly construed (indef) due to his lack of cooperation.~

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On a separate point the page currently uses the setting minthreadstoarchive=2. Can this be set to 1?

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ISIL made an issue about any of Israel's questionable practices (such as its internationally illegal

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it was easier to even just glance at previous linked discussion a lot of this could be avoided, and

335:

This chooses different wording from content in the independent but I think it to be more accurate.

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has to wait (unnecessarily) long for the page to load -- this is simply not complying with our own

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That was the wording I was talking about. It used to be in the infobox, now in the text. Very good

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and I have been hesitant to go to ANI with user problems. One user that was problematic here had a

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gets results that generally refer to the military wings of groups that are in conflict with ISIL.

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this makes efficient use of the Al-Jazeera qualification which is already applied to "caliphate".

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Al-Jazeera make fairly consistent use of "self-declared jihadist" and "self-proclaimed jihadist".

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Can you please provide a list of uninvolved admins who are willing to moderate Syria/ISIL pages?~

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An editor has made an important edit and the edit summary and diff for it are invisible. I have

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This section is about actions, not intentions. What is Felino's motive in pushing for this? --

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/04/us-iraq-security-jordan-israel-idUSKBN0F91FR20140704

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Let's not. This is the ENGLISH Wiki and we go by the English name referenced in the Sources.

2185:

It is imperative that criticisms are included in the lead. They are a big part of the topic.

2073:. Editors on this page are strong-minded, but we don't resort to that kind of talk here. -- 3774: 3690: 3605: 3411: 2774: 2149: 2130: 1358: 1331: 1307: 1303: 1273: 1241: 1227:

The sole (involved) admin that had been active in this page hasn't edited here for a while.

1197: 1140: 1076: 1008: 979: 923: 818: 711: 643: 639: 410: 308: 288: 4098:, begins: If possible, the page title should be the subject of the first sentence". In the 1440:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/08/mideast-islamicstate-israel-idUSL5N0R93CH20140908

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when the page was only 55k in size and had 30 sections. The first archiving took place on

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http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahu-on-Face-the-Nation-5-Oct-2014.aspx

765:: "Editors open threads for topics when there are already ongoing discussions about them." 2988:

I am not at all sure how you came to that conclusion at it was very orderly because the

2290:

site:http://www.aljazeera.com/ (ISIL OR ISIS OR Daesh OR "Islamic State") AND "jihadist"

1973:

actions, and it's the word IS itself uses, along with its supporters and other Muslims.

189:

Nice - I suggest adding "also translated as Islamic State in Iraq and al Sham or Syria.

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Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant#RfC: Three months moratorium on page moves

4134: 4118: 4086: 4055: 4026: 3892: 3822: 3797: 3766: 3751: 3729: 3698: 3672: 3644: 3609: 3587: 3561: 3546: 3531: 3504: 3486: 3451: 3436: 3421: 3404: 3385: 3336: 3315: 3286: 3244: 3230: 3213: 3195: 3145: 3054: 3040: 3022: 2979: 2964: 2918: 2904: 2886: 2812: 2798: 2784: 2764: 2744: 2719: 2694: 2680: 2660: 2639: 2618: 2595: 2574: 2542: 2520: 2502: 2481: 2421: 2400: 2340: 2278: 2264: 2245: 2223: 2209: 2194: 2177: 2140: 2082: 2053: 2038: 2015: 1996: 1949: 1929: 1909: 1859: 1841: 1825: 1764: 1725: 1683: 1662: 1641: 1627: 1608: 1583: 1550: 1529: 1496: 1477: 1419: 1377: 1353: 1339: 1317: 1297: 1283: 1266: 1251: 1222: 1207: 1187: 1150: 1122: 1086: 1058: 1042: 1033:). The last thing that is needed is an edit war over the content of talk pages. -- 1018: 995: 969: 947: 933: 916: 901: 861: 843: 828: 812: 790: 755: 721: 700: 682: 596: 578: 554: 490: 476: 458: 434: 420: 399: 361: 347: 302: 281: 229: 215: 198: 183: 3973:"anti-ISIL operations" OR "anti-ISIS operations" OR "anti-Islamic State operations" 3664: 3553: 3538: 3428: 3396: 3328: 3032: 2971: 2686: 2672: 2587: 2553: 2534: 2512: 2270: 2237: 2201: 2074: 2070: 1742: 1633: 1362: 1345: 1289: 1258: 1228: 1214: 1157: 1050: 961: 939: 908: 876: 835: 804: 762: 692: 666: 662: 628: 588: 482: 353: 221: 3601: 2789:

If the sources are unclear on this matter then I say it shouldn't be mentioned.

2466: 2380: 730:

Proposals for a heading editing and cross referencing practice on this talk page

587:

article. Links to this article have been provided in the "History" section. --

46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

2732:

A limited number of references so far have called this wording into question.

2121:. If you want to participate in this discussion please go to the discussion at 2299: 2163:

On what grounds do you say that editors should "refrain from discussion here"?

1876:

their actions are "not jihad at all, but rather, warmongering and criminality"

3995:"ISIL ground troops" OR "ISIS ground troops" OR "Islamic State ground troops" 3947:"anti-ISIL military" OR "anti-ISIS military" OR "anti-Islamic State military" 1408:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/30/iraq-isis-executed-hundreds-prison-inmates

2454: 2430: 2368: 2347:

The unobtrusive footnote definitely works but alternate wording could read:

1789:

The final paragraph of the section still contains the long standing wording:

319: 264: 1330:, a good editor. I am no longer interested in editing Knowledge at all!... 158:

List of wars and battles involving the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

4001:"ISIL armed forces" OR "ISIS armed forces" OR "Islamic State armed forces" 263:" serves more as a reference to territory (and everything there in) while 3443: 3377: 3278: 3205: 3137: 3046: 3027: 3014: 2450: 2426: 2365: 1323: 1192: 1179: 1161: 1134: 1114: 1034: 734: 688: 674: 651: 444: 2609:, please don't defame me, I am not the one pushing my POV aggressively. 4187:

Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant#Moratorium on Requested Moves

3031:

now. Apologies for adding 1K that day. Did I do something wrong? --

405:

It could, however the current column format is more compact. I made a

2625:

Reducing Islamic criticism and highlighting the involvement of Israel

2322:

Jihad: A Misunderstood Concept from Islam - What Jihad is, and is not

327: 3963:"ISIL operations" OR "ISIS operations" OR "Islamic State operations" 3925:"ISIL terrorists" OR "ISIS terrorists" OR "Islamic State terrorists" 3919:"ISIL extremists" OR "ISIS extremists" OR "Islamic State extremists" 3847:(ISIL OR ISIS OR Daesh OR "Islamic State") AND "military capability" 244:

Following reference from the Independent (UK newspaper) the text at

144:

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, 8 April 2013 - On 29 June 2014

1937:

hatnote here. That should not have been difficult to understand?

3872:(ISIL OR ISIS OR Daesh OR "Islamic State") AND "military capacity" 2647:

Guys, don't you think this should be moved to criticism section?:

2462: 2438: 2376: 2353: 1695:

presenting a controversial topic in a very visually prominent way.

3931:"ISIL jihadists" OR "ISIS jihadists" OR "Islamic State jihadists" 3907:"ISIL militants" OR "ISIS militants" OR "Islamic State militants" 3159:

4 Lede could use some trimming 4.1 Suggest trimming nation names

2874:

http://www.amazon.fr/L-Etat-Islamique-Hanne-Olivier/dp/2758701294

246:

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant#Islamic State (2014–present)

2755:. The IS doesn't even accept the concept of nations or borders. 2458: 2372: 3835:

Military capability of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

3983:"ISIL soldiers" OR "ISIS soldiers" OR "Islamic State soldiers" 3937:"ISIL military" OR "ISIS military" OR "Islamic State military" 3913:"ISIL fighters" OR "ISIS fighters" OR "Islamic State fighters" 3713:(ISIL OR ISIS OR Daesh OR "Islamic State") AND "military wing" 2826: 1063:

All of the "refactoring" proposals mentioned above fall under

508: 25: 3860:

Military capacity of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

3078:

15 23:30, 15 October 2014‎ 172,795 40k -10 (from archive) 30K

2950:

Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant#Talk page too long

2113:) has repeatedly reverted or reinserted edits that violated 799:

It is a very difficult problem, isn't it, and you are right

3989:"ISIL militia" OR "ISIS militia" OR "Islamic State militia" 545:

Undo edit by user that removed the Recent History section.

169:

Are there other templates that could be beneficially made?

118:

The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, history of names.

3156:

1 Proposed move from "ISIS" to "ISIL" in the article text

1813:

can you please remove inclusion of Israel from the list.

3831:

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, military capability

3168:

10 second para, first sentence. (notification of change)

2710:

Perhaps it should be mentioned somewhere in the article.

4102:

The title reads: Military of ISIL; the lead begins: The

3957:"ISIL troops" OR "ISIS troops" OR "Islamic State troops" 2300:

Sunni Media - ISIS Its NOT Jihad | Sheikh Monawwar Ateeq

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Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, military capacity

3250: 3009: 3005: 3001: 2989: 2561: 2526: 2125:

and please refrain from discussion here. It is against

2023: 1302:

I've requested an admin close. There's a consensus for

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Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events

406: 2117:

and talk page consensus. The is an open discussion on

106:

History of names, take away (template etc. discussion)

3177:

15 Official website external link and accurate flag

2863:Please, add the first book on the islamic state : 240:Caliphate as territory or power structure or both? 3366:. It is unusual on talk pages to need to use the 3112:Suggest amalgamating second and last para of lead 156:Its something that I thought might be of use in: 3363: 4154: 4148: 3663:to be on the current Talk page and bloat it. -- 3081:15 01:29, 15 October 2014‎ 131,823 last archive 2868:The islamic state, anatomy of the New Caliphate 2866:Oliver Hanne and Thomas Flichy de La Neuville, 4073:use of "Military of Isil". One reason we have 3808:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, military 3000:! In fact your first edit to the page was on 2823:Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2014 505:Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2014 3153:Suggest: the archiving of sections such as: 3109:Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2014 3092:At 23:36, 19 October there were 42 sections 3089:At 01:29, 15 October there were 31 sections 1425:Israel should be added to the opponents' list 8: 2895:, can you specify where you want to add it? 771:of a heading would have worked just as well. 133:Tanẓīm Qāʻidat al-Jihād fī Bilād al-Rāfidayn 633:Help:Archiving a talk page#Archive indexing 3262:At 10 about 220k and at least 37 sections. 1868:The word "jihad", criticism and disruption 1705:The word "jihad", criticism and disruption 1344:That is a biased statement, I'm afraid. -- 113: 3265:8 is about 176 and at least 30 sections. 3045:I don't think you did anything wrong. -- 1798:The opponents list is restricted to: (a) 4032:Not wanting to close the discussion but 3659:well signposted that discussion doesn't 2803:No worries, just thought I would ask :) 658:-- I am not sure if it is still active. 1806:coordinating or supporting such States. 166:Could it form the basis of a template? 116: 3268:7 about 154k and at least 28 sections. 3075:16 23:30, 16 October 2014‎ 200,191 27k 3072:17 23:50, 17 October 2014‎ 214,212 14k 3069:18 19:52, 18 October 2014‎ 243,020 28k 3066:19 23:36, 19 October 2014‎ 257,214 14k 2870:, Bernard Giovanangeli editions, 2014 2560:in his continued undisclosed POV push 2326:take the time to consider the content! 2026:I believe, is the edit in question. 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 4149:let's change the title of the article 4013:Gregkaye 08:40, 22 October 2014 (UTC) 3738:in drawing a distinction between the 2313:Jihad, The perception and the reality 7: 4171:The following discussion is closed. 3827:If we want to keep it then perhaps: 3395:retrievability. Digression over. -- 2843:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant 2412:? Is there such a phrase and thing? 525:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant 3927:gets "About 12,600 results" in news 3921:gets "About 20,700 results" in news 3915:gets "About 51,800 results" in news 3909:gets "About 80,700 results" in news 3165:9 Syria army still free (resolved) 710:work to make a manual index also. ~ 3939:gets "About 1,580 results" in news 3933:gets "About 7,150 results" in news 2318:Islamic Supreme Council of America 1156:There is no need to, that is what 163:Can it be used in other articles? 24: 3901:Reference: Usage of terminologies 650:, and an example from that list: 4256:The discussion above is closed. 4034: 3991:gets "About 362 results" in news 3985:gets "About 487 results" in news 3975:gets "About 127 results" in news 3965:gets "About 471 results" in news 3959:gets "About 498 results" in news 3949:gets "About 159 results" in news 2830: 560: 512: 160:.... and then I got to wonder!! 141:, 12 October 2006 - 8 April 2013 29: 4164:) 23:40, 2 November 2014 (UTC) 3356: 1: 4104:Military of the Islamic State 3063:I did the maths on the 20th: 2933:Archive 14#Talk page too long 2730:"islamic state of al khilaf". 1272:out and offers a resolution.~ 613:Archive 14#Talk page too long 315:, I have edited the text to: 127:Jamāʻat al-Tawḥīd wa-al-Jihād 4251:22:45, 2 November 2014 (UTC) 4235:21:07, 2 November 2014 (UTC) 4216:14:53, 2 November 2014 (UTC) 4135:16:57, 2 November 2014 (UTC) 4119:16:44, 2 November 2014 (UTC) 4100:current state of the article 4087:15:58, 31 October 2014 (UTC) 4056:18:58, 24 October 2014 (UTC) 4027:22:44, 23 October 2014 (UTC) 3893:11:36, 23 October 2014 (UTC) 3823:11:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC) 3798:08:43, 22 October 2014 (UTC) 3767:08:05, 22 October 2014 (UTC) 3752:05:10, 22 October 2014 (UTC) 3730:05:02, 22 October 2014 (UTC) 3699:21:40, 21 October 2014 (UTC) 3673:21:55, 1 November 2014 (UTC) 3645:07:33, 30 October 2014 (UTC) 3610:07:43, 30 October 2014 (UTC) 3588:06:53, 30 October 2014 (UTC) 3562:17:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC) 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Set the 2123:the discussion at this link 1804:transnational organizations 539:to reactivate your request. 527:has been answered. Set the 259:I would have thought that " 4275: 3736:Knowledge:ORIGINALRESEARCH 667:reports that is not active 619:See previous discussion: 4156:no need for this section 3868:Military capacity of ISIL 3839:ISIL, military capability 2931:See previous discussion: 1882:See previous discussion: 1874:See earliest discussion: 1071:which are allowed as per 740:Small text with signature 611:See earliest discussion: 4258:Please do not modify it. 4174:Please do not modify it. 4003:gets "2 results" in news 3997:gets "4 results" in news 1365:express similar views. 1169:There is nothing in the 1162:pushing a rock up a hill 443:(which is referenced by 3864:ISIL, military capacity 3705:"Military wing of ISIL" 3180:16 placing Terrorism, 2309:Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri 2158:WP:talk page guidelines 2127:WP:talk page guidelines 1065:Non-contentious cleanup 1049:maybe PBS disagrees. -- 646:) and for examples see 372:Prose instead of flags? 4166: 4062:Not a very useful name 2939:See later discussion: 656:Talk:DOS/Archive index 644:User:ClueBot III#index 378:See later discussion: 3687:Military wing of ISIL 3681:Military wing of ISIL 1884:Logical Order in Lead 1568:West bank settlements 139:Islamic State of Iraq 129:, 1999 - October 2004 42:of past discussions. 3103:Apologies to editors 2701:Issuing of Passports 2364:and self-proclaimed 1892:HAT: in this opener 324:Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi 3851:Military capability 3183:There may be more. 2998:Slaughterhouse-Five 2449:, self-declared as 1596:'s comment below. 1424: 1171:talk page guideline 2556:It was removed by 2447:unrecognized state 2410:jihadist caliphate 2362:unrecognized state 2065:: Please remember 18:Talk:Islamic State 4069:I may have found 3420: 2861: 2860: 2783: 2429:is an adjective, 2139: 2022:Just to be clear 1952: 1932: 1912: 1316: 1282: 1250: 1206: 1149: 1085: 1017: 932: 827: 741: 720: 543: 542: 450:Orange Suede Sofa 441:WP:ICONDECORATION 419: 153: 152: 103: 102: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 4266: 4176: 4116: 4053: 4042: 4038: 4037: 3890: 3820: 3795: 3785: 3782:LightandDark2000 3778: 3727: 3707:gets "2 results" 3679:Recent article: 3598: 3585: 3502: 3414: 3375: 3369: 3362: 3354: 3348: 3228: 3193: 2852: 2848: 2834: 2833: 2827: 2777: 2742: 2637: 2572: 2479: 2398: 2338: 2175: 2133: 2036: 2013: 1947: 1935: 1915: 1907: 1891: 1823: 1723: 1660: 1606: 1581: 1527: 1475: 1375: 1310: 1304:User:Worldedixor 1276: 1244: 1200: 1143: 1138: 1079: 1011: 993: 926: 899: 859: 821: 788: 753: 739: 714: 640:User:ClueBot III 564: 563: 534: 530: 516: 515: 509: 474: 451: 427:David O. 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1845: 1844: 1829: 1828: 1819: 1808: 1791: 1790: 1768: 1767: 1753: 1733: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1728: 1719: 1712: 1697: 1696: 1687: 1686: 1670: 1669: 1668: 1667: 1666: 1665: 1656: 1615: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1611: 1602: 1577: 1554: 1553: 1537: 1536: 1535: 1534: 1533: 1532: 1523: 1500: 1499: 1481: 1480: 1471: 1426: 1423: 1403: 1402:Badoush Prison 1400: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1388: 1387: 1386: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1380: 1371: 1356: 1166: 1165: 1130: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1022: 1021: 999: 998: 989: 955: 954: 953: 952: 951: 950: 895: 886: 885: 884: 873: 872: 871: 870: 869: 868: 867: 866: 865: 864: 855: 794: 793: 784: 775: 772: 767: 766: 749: 731: 728: 727: 726: 725: 724: 704: 703: 671:/Archive index 625: 624: 616: 606: 603: 602: 601: 600: 599: 541: 540: 517: 506: 503: 502: 501: 500: 499: 498: 497: 496: 495: 494: 493: 470: 384: 383: 373: 370: 369: 368: 367: 366: 365: 364: 341: 333: 332: 331: 275: 241: 238: 237: 236: 235: 234: 233: 232: 209: 177: 151: 150: 149: 148: 145: 142: 136: 130: 121: 120: 117: 112: 107: 104: 101: 100: 95: 92: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4271: 4259: 4252: 4248: 4244: 4243:HammerFilmFan 4240: 4239: 4236: 4232: 4228: 4224: 4223:WP:COMMONNAME 4220: 4219: 4218: 4217: 4213: 4209: 4205: 4204:Islamic state 4197: 4196: 4191: 4189: 4188: 4183: 4182: 4178: 4175: 4169: 4168: 4165: 4163: 4159: 4136: 4132: 4128: 4124: 4123: 4122: 4121: 4120: 4117: 4109: 4105: 4101: 4097: 4093: 4090: 4089: 4088: 4084: 4080: 4076: 4075:WP:COMMONNAME 4072: 4068: 4067: 4066: 4065: 4061: 4057: 4054: 4046: 4041: 4031: 4030: 4029: 4028: 4024: 4020: 4012: 4011: 4007: 4006: 4002: 3999: 3996: 3993: 3990: 3987: 3984: 3981: 3980: 3974: 3971: 3970: 3969: 3968: 3964: 3961: 3958: 3955: 3954: 3948: 3945: 3944: 3943: 3942: 3938: 3935: 3932: 3929: 3926: 3923: 3920: 3917: 3914: 3911: 3908: 3905: 3904: 3900: 3894: 3891: 3883: 3880: 3877: 3873: 3869: 3865: 3861: 3857: 3854: 3852: 3848: 3844: 3840: 3836: 3832: 3829: 3828: 3826: 3825: 3824: 3821: 3813: 3809: 3805: 3799: 3796: 3788: 3783: 3776: 3770: 3769: 3768: 3764: 3760: 3755: 3754: 3753: 3749: 3745: 3741: 3740:military wing 3737: 3733: 3731: 3728: 3720: 3717: 3714: 3711: 3710: 3706: 3703: 3702: 3701: 3700: 3696: 3692: 3688: 3682: 3678: 3674: 3670: 3666: 3662: 3658: 3654: 3649: 3648: 3647: 3646: 3642: 3638: 3634: 3611: 3607: 3603: 3596: 3591: 3590: 3589: 3586: 3578: 3575: 3572: 3569: 3565: 3564: 3563: 3559: 3555: 3550: 3549: 3548: 3544: 3540: 3535: 3534: 3533: 3529: 3525: 3521: 3516: 3512: 3511: 3510: 3509: 3506: 3503: 3495: 3491: 3490: 3489: 3488: 3484: 3480: 3453: 3449: 3445: 3440: 3439: 3438: 3434: 3430: 3425: 3424: 3423: 3418: 3413: 3408: 3407: 3406: 3402: 3398: 3394: 3389: 3388: 3387: 3383: 3379: 3372: 3365: 3358: 3351: 3344: 3343: 3342: 3341: 3338: 3334: 3330: 3325: 3320: 3319: 3318: 3317: 3313: 3309: 3288: 3284: 3280: 3276: 3272: 3271: 3267: 3264: 3261: 3258: 3255: 3254: 3252: 3248: 3247: 3246: 3242: 3238: 3234: 3233: 3232: 3229: 3221: 3217: 3216: 3215: 3211: 3207: 3202: 3201: 3200: 3199: 3198: 3197: 3194: 3186: 3181: 3178: 3175: 3172: 3169: 3166: 3163: 3160: 3157: 3154: 3147: 3143: 3139: 3135: 3132: 3128: 3125: 3122: 3119: 3116: 3111: 3108: 3105: 3102: 3101: 3099: 3096: 3091: 3088: 3087: 3085: 3080: 3077: 3074: 3071: 3068: 3065: 3064: 3062: 3056: 3052: 3048: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3038: 3034: 3029: 3026: 3025: 3024: 3020: 3016: 3011: 3007: 3003: 2999: 2995: 2994:average novel 2991: 2990:end of August 2987: 2986: 2985: 2984: 2981: 2977: 2973: 2969: 2968: 2967: 2966: 2962: 2958: 2953: 2951: 2943: 2942: 2937: 2935: 2934: 2929: 2928: 2924: 2920: 2916: 2912: 2911:HammerFilmFan 2908: 2906: 2902: 2898: 2894: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2884: 2880: 2876: 2875: 2871: 2869: 2864: 2856: 2853:parameter to 2844: 2840: 2836: 2829: 2828: 2822: 2814: 2810: 2806: 2802: 2801: 2800: 2796: 2792: 2788: 2786: 2781: 2776: 2772: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2766: 2762: 2758: 2754: 2751: 2748: 2746: 2743: 2735: 2731: 2727: 2724: 2723: 2722: 2721: 2717: 2713: 2708: 2707: 2700: 2696: 2692: 2688: 2684: 2682: 2678: 2674: 2669: 2664: 2662: 2658: 2654: 2650: 2646: 2641: 2638: 2630: 2626: 2622: 2621: 2620: 2616: 2612: 2608: 2603: 2602: 2597: 2593: 2589: 2585: 2582: 2581: 2580: 2579: 2576: 2573: 2565: 2562: 2559: 2555: 2552: 2551: 2544: 2540: 2536: 2532: 2528: 2524: 2523: 2522: 2518: 2514: 2510: 2509: 2508: 2507: 2504: 2500: 2496: 2491: 2490: 2483: 2480: 2472: 2468: 2464: 2460: 2456: 2452: 2448: 2444: 2440: 2436: 2432: 2428: 2425: 2424: 2423: 2419: 2415: 2411: 2407: 2404: 2403: 2402: 2399: 2391: 2388: 2385: 2382: 2378: 2374: 2370: 2367: 2363: 2359: 2355: 2351: 2350: 2346: 2345: 2342: 2339: 2331: 2328: 2325: 2323: 2319: 2316: 2314: 2310: 2306: 2303: 2301: 2298: 2295: 2294: 2291: 2288: 2287: 2280: 2276: 2272: 2268: 2267: 2266: 2262: 2258: 2253: 2252: 2251: 2250: 2247: 2243: 2239: 2235: 2231: 2230: 2225: 2221: 2217: 2213: 2212: 2211: 2207: 2203: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2192: 2188: 2179: 2176: 2168: 2165: 2162: 2159: 2155: 2151: 2148: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2142: 2137: 2132: 2128: 2124: 2120: 2116: 2112: 2109: 2106: 2103: 2100: 2096: 2092: 2091: 2084: 2080: 2076: 2072: 2068: 2064: 2061: 2060: 2059: 2058: 2055: 2051: 2047: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2037: 2029: 2025: 2021: 2020: 2017: 2014: 2006: 2001: 2000: 1999: 1998: 1994: 1990: 1986: 1983: 1980: 1977: 1974: 1970: 1967: 1964: 1960: 1957: 1951: 1948: 1940: 1934: 1931: 1927: 1923: 1919: 1914: 1911: 1908: 1900: 1895: 1890: 1889: 1886: 1885: 1880: 1878: 1877: 1872: 1871: 1867: 1861: 1857: 1853: 1849: 1848: 1847: 1846: 1843: 1839: 1835: 1831: 1830: 1827: 1824: 1816: 1812: 1809: 1807: 1805: 1801: 1797: 1793: 1792: 1788: 1785: 1784: 1783: 1782: 1778: 1774: 1766: 1762: 1758: 1754: 1752: 1748: 1744: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1736: 1727: 1724: 1716: 1713: 1710: 1706: 1702: 1699: 1698: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1685: 1681: 1677: 1672: 1671: 1664: 1661: 1653: 1649: 1645: 1644: 1643: 1639: 1635: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1625: 1621: 1616: 1610: 1607: 1599: 1595: 1590: 1587: 1586: 1585: 1582: 1574: 1569: 1565: 1561: 1558: 1557: 1556: 1555: 1552: 1548: 1544: 1539: 1538: 1531: 1528: 1520: 1515: 1511: 1507: 1504: 1503: 1502: 1501: 1498: 1494: 1490: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1479: 1476: 1468: 1464: 1461: 1460: 1459: 1458: 1454: 1450: 1445: 1444: 1441: 1438: 1434: 1431: 1422: 1421: 1417: 1413: 1409: 1401: 1379: 1376: 1368: 1364: 1360: 1357: 1355: 1351: 1347: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1337: 1333: 1329: 1325: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1314: 1309: 1305: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1295: 1291: 1287: 1286: 1285: 1280: 1275: 1270: 1269: 1268: 1264: 1260: 1255: 1254: 1253: 1248: 1243: 1239: 1234: 1230: 1226: 1225: 1224: 1220: 1216: 1211: 1210: 1209: 1204: 1199: 1194: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1185: 1181: 1176: 1172: 1168: 1167: 1163: 1159: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1152: 1147: 1142: 1136: 1124: 1120: 1116: 1112: 1107: 1103: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1088: 1083: 1078: 1074: 1070: 1069:Restructuring 1066: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1056: 1052: 1047: 1046: 1045: 1044: 1040: 1036: 1032: 1020: 1015: 1010: 1006: 1001: 1000: 997: 994: 986: 981: 978: 977: 976: 975: 974: 973: 972: 971: 967: 963: 959: 949: 945: 941: 937: 936: 935: 930: 925: 920: 919: 918: 914: 910: 906: 905: 904: 903: 900: 892: 882: 881: 880: 878: 863: 860: 852: 847: 846: 845: 841: 837: 832: 831: 830: 825: 820: 816: 815: 814: 810: 806: 802: 798: 797: 796: 795: 792: 789: 781: 776: 773: 769: 768: 764: 760: 759: 758: 757: 754: 746: 736: 729: 723: 718: 713: 708: 707: 706: 705: 702: 698: 694: 690: 687: 686: 685: 684: 680: 676: 672: 668: 664: 659: 657: 653: 649: 645: 641: 636: 634: 630: 623: 622: 617: 615: 614: 609: 608: 604: 598: 594: 590: 586: 582: 581: 580: 576: 572: 567: 559: 558: 557: 556: 552: 548: 547:140.153.68.94 538: 535:parameter to 526: 522: 518: 511: 510: 504: 492: 488: 484: 480: 479: 478: 475: 467: 462: 461: 460: 456: 452: 446: 442: 438: 437: 436: 432: 428: 424: 423: 422: 417: 412: 408: 404: 403: 402: 401: 397: 393: 389: 382: 381: 376: 375: 371: 363: 359: 355: 351: 350: 349: 346: 338: 334: 329: 325: 321: 317: 316: 314: 313: 312: 306: 305: 304: 300: 299: 294: 293: 292: 286: 285: 284: 283: 280: 272: 268: 266: 262: 261:Islamic state 257: 256: 252: 249: 247: 239: 231: 227: 223: 219: 218: 217: 214: 206: 202: 201: 200: 196: 192: 188: 187: 186: 185: 182: 174: 170: 167: 164: 161: 159: 146: 143: 140: 137: 134: 131: 128: 125: 124: 123: 122: 115: 111: 110:I made this: 105: 99: 96: 93: 91: 88: 86: 83: 80: 76: 74: 71: 69: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 4257: 4200: 4192: 4185:See notice: 4184: 4173: 4170: 4155: 4103: 4070: 4039: 4016: 3739: 3685: 3660: 3656: 3652: 3637:Corriebertus 3624: 3568:Corriebertus 3524:Corriebertus 3515:the troubles 3479:Corriebertus 3466: 3393:navigability 3392: 3376:template -- 3308:Corriebertus 3301: 3182: 3179: 3176: 3173: 3170: 3167: 3164: 3161: 3158: 3155: 3152: 3006:11 July 2014 3002:13 June 2014 2957:Corriebertus 2947: 2946: 2938: 2930: 2877: 2872: 2867: 2865: 2862: 2854: 2839:edit request 2709: 2704: 2648: 2234: 2184: 2156:are against 2107: 2101: 1987: 1984: 1981: 1978: 1975: 1971: 1968: 1965: 1961: 1958: 1955: 1881: 1873: 1795: 1794: 1769: 1735: 1734: 1563: 1446: 1435: 1432: 1428: 1405: 1131: 1068: 1064: 1027: 1005:"least harm" 957: 956: 887: 874: 733: 663:User:Legobot 660: 637: 626: 618: 610: 565: 544: 536: 521:edit request 425:OK, thanks. 385: 377: 310: 309: 297: 290: 289: 269: 258: 253: 250: 243: 171: 168: 165: 162: 155: 109: 78: 43: 37: 3775:Greyshark09 3412:Technophant 3357:#Moratorium 2775:Technophant 2527:reverted it 2467:Middle East 2381:Middle East 2150:Technophant 2131:Technophant 1359:Worldedixor 1332:Worldedixor 1308:Technophant 1274:Technophant 1242:Technophant 1198:Technophant 1175:refactoring 1141:Technophant 1077:Technophant 1073:WP:REFACTOR 1031:Refactoring 1009:Technophant 980:Technophant 924:Technophant 819:Technophant 712:Technophant 411:Technophant 386:Should the 322:and naming 36:This is an 4193:See also: 4127:Dougweller 4092:Dougweller 4079:Dougweller 3520:guidelines 3218:8 days?. 2847:|answered= 2805:TRAJAN 117 2750:TRAJAN 117 2726:TRAJAN 117 2712:TRAJAN 117 1514:WP:WHYCITE 1412:93.65.4.84 661:Or to add 529:|answered= 388:Opposition 98:Archive 20 90:Archive 17 85:Archive 16 79:Archive 15 73:Archive 14 68:Archive 13 60:Archive 10 4158:Legacypac 3759:Legacypac 3633:guideline 2668:Felino123 2653:Felino123 2611:Felino123 2584:Felino123 2558:Felino123 2495:Felino123 2455:caliphate 2443:extremist 2431:caliphate 2369:caliphate 2358:extremist 2216:Legacypac 2187:Legacypac 2154:Felino123 2063:Felino123 2046:Felino123 1989:Felino123 1922:Felino123 1894:Felino123 1852:Legacypac 1834:Felino123 1832:Removed! 1811:Felino123 1787:Legacypac 1773:Legacypac 1757:Felino123 1701:Felino123 1676:Felino123 1648:Felino123 1620:Legacypac 1594:Legacypac 1589:Felino123 1560:Felino123 1543:Felino123 1506:Felino123 1489:Felino123 1463:Felino123 1449:Felino123 1433:Sources: 566:Not done: 320:caliphate 311:GreyShark 291:GreyShark 265:caliphate 191:Legacypac 4108:Gregkaye 4096:WP:BEGIN 4045:Gregkaye 3882:Gregkaye 3812:Gregkaye 3787:Gregkaye 3744:Gazkthul 3719:Gregkaye 3595:Gregkaye 3577:Gregkaye 3494:Gregkaye 3324:Gregkaye 3220:Gregkaye 3185:Gregkaye 3010:1 August 2757:Gazkthul 2734:Gregkaye 2629:Gregkaye 2607:Gregkaye 2564:Gregkaye 2531:Gregkaye 2471:Gregkaye 2451:jihadist 2437:...is a 2427:Jihadist 2406:Gregkaye 2390:Gregkaye 2366:jihadist 2352:...is a 2330:Gregkaye 2167:Gregkaye 2105:contribs 2095:Gregkaye 2093:NOTICE: 2067:WP:CIVIL 2028:Gregkaye 2005:Gregkaye 1939:Gregkaye 1918:Gregkaye 1916:ANSWER: 1899:Gregkaye 1815:Gregkaye 1715:Gregkaye 1652:Gregkaye 1598:Gregkaye 1573:Gregkaye 1519:Gregkaye 1467:Gregkaye 1367:Gregkaye 1328:Gregkaye 985:Gregkaye 891:Gregkaye 851:Gregkaye 801:Gregkaye 780:Gregkaye 745:Gregkaye 652:Talk:DOS 571:Cannolis 466:Gregkaye 445:MOS:FLAG 337:Gregkaye 271:Gregkaye 205:Gregkaye 173:Gregkaye 3849:. See 3665:P123ct1 3554:P123ct1 3539:P123ct1 3429:P123ct1 3397:P123ct1 3329:P123ct1 3033:P123ct1 2972:P123ct1 2893:Daménie 2879:Daménie 2687:P123ct1 2673:P123ct1 2588:P123ct1 2554:P123ct1 2535:P123ct1 2513:P123ct1 2465:in the 2379:in the 2271:P123ct1 2238:P123ct1 2202:P123ct1 2075:P123ct1 1743:P123ct1 1711:. 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