318:
Without knowing something about the names first, I think the reader could be quite confused by "History" and many of the later references. I have cut the "History of Names" section right down already, but would it be an idea to scrap the index of names? Perhaps 2.5 "Notable members" and "Designation as a terrorist organisation" (which used to be nearly the last item) could be moved to the end and perhaps the "Support" and "Opposition" sections could be combined into one big section with "Military and arms", which comes after "Criticisms". ( "Designation as a terrorist organisation" just fleshes out one of the Lead paras, which could perhaps be moved to a higher position in the Lead along with the criticisms Lead para to compensate for relegating the designation infobox to the end; also, the terrorist designation para and criticism para in the Lead moved to a prominent position in the Lead would highlight from the start the criticisms of the group. These paras used to be at the start, and I can't remember now why they were moved down.) The sections I have mentioned are not part of the narrative and mostly are more like the appendix tables you see in other encyclopaedias. I am just trying to think of ways to move up "Criticisms" to a more prominent place, which it deserves, without breaking logical order. ~
4733:
or with "ISIS" or "ISIL". The news agency reuters has, for whatever reason, chosen to only go to the extent of quoting other peoples qualifications of the group. Just to summarise: legitimate objections to "Islamic State" are both political, ethical and theological. Politically it is not a State, ethically it has no right to gain authority over people by military force and theologically it has no right to claim authority over the rest of Islam especially when the majority of other
Muslims consider it as un-Islamic. The Islamic State sub-section of history begins "On 29 June 2014, ISIL ... began to refer to itself as the "Islamic State" and then the text uses "Islamic State" without qualification. I think that this (depending on the extent that this section may develop in the future) presents balanced content. I think that qualification is also of relevance in the
1817:. You give every impression of being a competent editor. You certainly know how to present your arguments and belittle your opposition. Your edits show great ability in enacting multiple simultaneous edits. However, the effect of your edits is to remove distance ISIL from Islamic criticism while simultaneously highlighting the involvement of Israel. The result of this will remove the well documented Islamic calls for moderation and have an effect towards that of offering a red rag to a bull. All I have done is presented a list. You have disregarded both the edit comments of previous editors and even the fact that all other editors were making contributions in the opposite direction than you. Your first edit was to slash a great section of text from the article that had been developed by I a significant number of editors over a significant period of time.
1839:, and I have also highlighted opposition by other countries such as Spain and Italy on this page and the military intervention pages. Thank you for the compliments, but I am not as good as you say. I'm just trying to improve this article, but I have committed mistakes (I am sorry). In fact, I spend half an hour on the multiple edits, because I'm learning how Knowledge works. Knowing how to present arguments has nothing to do with being competent or not. As I said before, I am not trying to downplay criticism of ISIL by Muslims; in fact, it should be clearly noted. I just don't want ANY particular criticism on the lead, but I'm willing to make concessions. You're defaming me without any evidence. The text you're talking about was rejected by a consensus, and now we are trying to reach a consensus on criticism on the lead. Please don't distort this.
1710:
admin took no action, now you defame me here and manipulate the edits I made in good faith acting in the best interest of this Wiki. I will never edit anything against the consensus. Most things I reverted were your edits against the consensus, and I explained what I did and why. I am new on
Knowledge, so I might have commited mistakes. I am really sorry for that. Or you didn't commit any mistake when you were new here? Please let's reach a consensus, stop attacking me and let's get along. And about Israel: I added all the info I thought it was necessary to justify adding Israel to the opponents' list. Some countries have two citations and the US has three. What's wrong with three citations on Israel? Is there any rule prohibiting three citations on this?
4313:
advantage both regard to flow of section titles and in that the article content on criticism would be further moved down the page. Maybe other editors can weigh in on potential positioning issues. Technophant's amendments will have cut an average of 2/3's of the length of the content but it is still all repetition. If people tuned into news of ISIL they would see information of events in the most recent few days and, if a repetition were agreed, then an equivalent number of days, if that could be agreed, could be a possible bench mark. This would allow people to see most recent events and decide whether to jump to the longer article. Then again it might be regarded that they could make this choice based on the basic link.
4637:
like trying to translate 'Washington' or 'London' into
Chinese, the name/pronunciation stays the same no matter what language uses it. I am disappointed to see that many users are citing the fact that just becuase Barrack Obama and the U.S government use the term, then it must be factually correct. The fact is that Knowledge is an independent encyclopedia and not an extension/branch or mouthpiece of the U.S Federal government. I also find it rather awkward when media institutions such as CNN/Fox are using the correct acronym 'ISIS' and the U.S government is using some half-ass one, which is really embarrassing. Thirdly, as this is the English Knowledge, I understand there will be allot of ignorant people who will be saying
2698:
don't think there should be ready acceptance of the idea of a severed head being left on a pavement with a smiling man holding a bare footed child in the air so as to help the child kick a dead, severed head. It would have been very easy for, I believe, the
Kurdish (Islamic) source to have found a photo and doctored. ISIL killings that I have seen can involve victims kneeling in front of a grave so that they can fall in when shot and some of the activities seem to be relatively clinical. This is not to say that stories involving the use of heads aren't true but unless evidence becomes really clear I would caution against using Knowledge's voice to state facts.
1111:
reader would be at sea when reading the "History" section and confused when coming across references to the different names, sometimes used interchangeably (Islamic State/IS/ISIL), scattered throughout the article. It neatly gets across the idea that while the group started as far back as 1999, it is in fact still the same group, which metamorphosed over time. That is not as immediately apparent when reading the "History" section on its own. With perhaps a different title, the "History of names" subsection I think would be best incorporated into the "History" section, as the first subsection of it. ~
4400:. This article has now reached about 185K without the two-week timeline, and I wonder if this is why handling the article, editing and moving around it and its Edit history page is becoming noticeably slower and more cumbersome. It would be useful to know if Knowledge readers are finding the same problem just reading the article. Reducing the length of the timeline would help with that problem, as would reducing the size of this article, which is getting too long, IMO. Why is are the Support/Opposition sections being kept, when there is already an article with this information,
4375:
15 days, these headings also appear in the ISIL document. I tried to change the format used in the timeline document but once agreement was reached on a way forward on this talk page, these changes were reverted. Now I think that a minimal sample of timeline content in the article can continue to provide a useful taster to the timeline document but think that 15 days, with its addition of a month title in the TOC for half of the time, is cumbersome. I am also aware that full consensus may not have been reached with regard to the keeping or the scrapping of this content.
3982:. While the total amount of wikicode is 207kB, the amount of "readable prose size" (text only) is only 56kB (9183 words) . If you use the tool you will see which parts are counted in yellow, which doesn't include infoboxes, the transcluded Timeline, or the list of names (lists aren't counted). All in all the article is just about "right-sized" and has room to grow. We've split several sections out, and it was a wise move to split the Timeline, however think that making the Timeline a complete "orphan" will hurt both this article and the Timeline.~
3863:. It is presumably requested to be restored in request below. I would like to have no more than two months included because it gives readers a look at recent events from the main page and also when the edit tags are clicked on it automatically opens and edit box in the newer sections of the timeline page instead of this page. I support keeping it at the bottom of the page. It helps keep the content fresh and up-to-dtae and makes for easier management of the timeline page when the newer additions are visible here. ~
4652:- This is the current term that the group itself uses al-dawlah al-islamīyah or The Islamic State. This is sensitive, as denoting the group as such, in a way, gives them their legitimacy as being the true followers of Islamic ways and tradition. But it's just a name. This is meant to be an encyclopedia, not some politically correct magazine. We're supposed to go by fact, and this is what the fact is, that their current name is the Islamic State. If people are really hurt by it, then call the article
1856:, What I have done is I have taken you to AN/I after you made a clear breach of 1RR making two reverts in under 24 hours, I have highlighted your editing practice in which other editors were consistently adding content of criticism into the lead with only you editing in the other direction and I have supplied resisted correction to your inclusion of Israel in opposition. It was the wrong edit performed in the wrong way. If you edit in more conventional ways then there will be nothing against you.
4186:. This is an article, not a news ticker. I'd like to see a true summary style of timeline events (i.e. generally describing what resources are in the timeline article) and certainly a very prominent link, but the current set-up with "past two months" of news links tagged on the end of this huge article is not defensible. Usually people who cry "recentism" are wrong, but the current two-month ticker is a bona fide case of showcasing recent events regardless of importance.
38:
3788:! It will easily be missed by readers. (Btw, the link at the top of that infobox is not working.) I think there needs to be a link at the end of the "History" section as well, to indicate to readers there is more on the current situation in the Timeline article. Also, readers who may have been coming here to read the timeline will be puzzled why the link to the Timeline article which used to be here has suddenly disappeared. --
4335:) on this article (page compositing) but the actually timeline material is on the Timeline page and must be edited there. Back when I started editing in June, timeline edits were added on a daily basis. With this system it still happens, but goes on a separate page. I think there's a rough consensus to keep this system. Any more input onto how many entries or days worth of entries should be visible?~
1725:
of opposition, as you well knew, which is almost as bad. All this can be avoided if you bring edits to the Talk page first for discussion and agreement, and I think that should apply to all editors now on this contentious Lead. WP editing is a collaborative effort. The Israel edit was strange. That section only lists opponents who have actually provided support, not just talked about it. --
4707:
for the many different kinds of criticism levelled at this group, particularly over legitimacy, and I am surprised it is still quite empty. Let the article keep to NPOV and record facts, and deal with the objections to these words in "Criticism". As for the name "ISIL", that isn't regarded as "accurate" by WP, it is one of the names used by
Reliable Sources, which WP has to reflect per
3160:, says that Paul accused the US government of "arming ISIL", however the second source says "armed their allies in Syria." There are already multiple mentions and sources elsewhere that there is no evidence that the Governments of these countries are actually providing any support. Personally I don't believe this claim belongs in the Foreign Funding section of the article.
490:
sections, old or new, if they wish to do so, and they can be considered totally capable to do so. If people actually discussing an issue see no reason to refer to older/other discussions, 'outsiders' have no business and no right whatsoever to interfere and bother them with wisenose-references to other discussions. Leave off. Stop this 'shit' and please remove it. --
2487:, having a bold self link is the expected behavior, even if you think it doesn't look right this sidebar shouldn't go against convention. I would like to ask all users that have technical questions on this minor technical coding/format issue put to ask thier questions there so volunteers with expertise in technical issues can help. Also, the sidebar/infobox
3956:. I cannot believe that Technophant thinks the article is almost written. The dispute over "jihadist" is still not over, there is much more to write up in the "Human rights and abuse" section (see Talk #37 Life in ISIL-controlled Ar-Raqqah and Talk #40 ISIL's practice of massacre and slaughter to be presented prominently in the lead), something about
4242:
3719:
2287:
2085:
4404:? I think someone said that some of the support/oppose information in this article is not in that article; if so, why can it not be added to it? The flags/icons in these sections must be slowing down moving around in this article, but more to the point, these sections seem repetitious and for this reason perhaps they should be scrapped. ~
4212:, How possible is it to set the timeline loading into the ISIL article on a single month basis or even on, say, a regular number of days - perhaps 14. I saw that your original idea was to have 30 days of timeline displayed and I am wondering whether, instead of displaying ~30 - ~60 days displayed we could have something like 0 - ~ 30 days.
726:, has a full list of the opposition with flags. Might we just have a single sentence and a "see main" to direct the reader to that article? This is really part of the military intervention which is a whole topic in and of itself. Perhaps this has been discussed before in which case my apologies. It's hard to keep up with you guys/gals.
2064:: On second thoughts, it should probably be "Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn", not "Al-Qaeda in Iraq", as that is AQI's official name. Putting "Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant" in bold is not necesssary and spoils the layout. The rest looks okay as it is. How can the infobox/template(?) be accessed for editing? ~
4589:. The moratorium does not cover the usage within the article. However usage must follow MOS guidelines; and before commenting, to save repeating stale arguments that waste everybody's time, read the archived discussions and, do not to repeat the same arguments unless they are backed up with new reliable third party sources. --
3960:, in perhaps the "Governance" section, and who knows what major news will break about ISIL that needs to go in the main article rather than just the Timeline article? There is also discussion going on about how to adjust the organization of the article and whether or not to the scrap the military section (see Talk #34). ~
2429::Yes, I have - see my comment above. As with this History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant template for this article, I cannot see the point if it. There is a lot of editorial hyperactivity in this and related articles, IMO, which I think is beginning to be counterproductive for this article in particular. ~
1093:(On a related topic we can also note that there is current discussion regarding the repetition in this article of timeline content. If there was a place for its perhaps limited inclusion it might be as a subsection of History following names and chronology. Perhaps that discussion can continue in the relevant section).
1076:. To me the following content seems pretty heavy going. My thoughts are, if the rest of the section is to be kept then the index would provide one way to give the article a friendlier intro. Another solution may be to scrap the names section altogether. Can content be woven into the rest of the article?
4218:
would still be placed in a sensible position to act as a link to the timeline article. Would it be possible to display a set number of days such as 7 or 14. My personal view is that the main value is to give readers a taste to help them decide whether to access the main article. What do you think?
4939:
Agree with
Gazkthul - pattern is they force groups to fight for them, then turn on the groups once they are in control of an area. In the same vein, CNN sreferring to ISIL tape claiming to be Bagdadi "The voice also says he has good news -- ISIS is expanding into Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Libya and
4706:
I could not agree more with your para 2. At the moment this article is choking on political correctness, IMO. The name is a fact and should be recorded as such. There are too many "self-described" and "self-proclaimed"s in the article. I specifically set up the "Criticism" section as a catch-all
4253:
it would nice to figure out an automated way of doing it. I can agree to take on the responsibility for maintaining it and looking into using a bot to maintain it. If such a method can be devised it could be reused on other similar pages. There's even a chance that there's simple method to do this so
4217:
What's on my mind is an idea to shunt notable members into its own section and to place this type of smaller timeline as a last sub-section of history. I guess that, on a monthly basis, this might mean that on the first few hours or days of the month the timeline may have no information in it but it
1980:
The link in the title does not work, and it is not possible to edit this infobox. The name "Al-Qaeda in
Mesopotamia" while accurate is just one of the several names for Al-Qaeda in Iraq. It is best to be consistent with the rest of the article and keep to "Al-Qaeda in Iraq". No need to confuse the
1790:
I have admitted I have committed mistakes, as I am new so I didn't know the rules well. And I am really sorry for that. I can assure you I will never edit against the consensus again. Israel is providing intelligence support and says it's ready to fight on the ground in the case ISIL militants get to
1110:
I think the "History of the
Islamic State of Iraq and Iran" template is better than the index of names, which I think should be scrapped. To repeat, once again, I think the "History of names" must be retained, as without a glossary of names and skeleton history at the beginning, I think the uniformed
811:
I can try to generally do that in the future however there's traditions and customs in Talk pages. Inserting indented comments after an earlier remark are meant to be a reply to that remark, instead of furthering the main discussion below. I don't think it's reasonable to expect other users to change
443:
I have amended titles usually with additions for the sake of clarification, altered texts that I thought were inappropriately indented in the context of dialogue and have reverted a collapse related to one of my own texts. That I think is the limit. I mainly make my "confessions" above knowing that
317:
I agree, it is a bad situation. I wouldn't be happy about moving "Names" to an appendix or from its position at the top, though, as the history of this group and its bewildering number of names is hard to grasp for a new reader (I know it was for me) and I think it gives a good run-in to "History".
4732:
I think that a balance can be struck between use by primary and secondary sources. English speaking governments do not tend to refer to "Islamic State" and many news organisations, such as the BBC, begin with a phrase like "so called
Islamic State" and then continue with "Islamic State" unqualified
4147:
to scraping the timeline. With everything that's going on out there, and the significance of the events, it's best to keep a record of recent events going back to 2 months, so that readers who want to be up-to-date with the news (especially those who are new to the subject) will have a firm grasp of
3904:
as a way of drawing more reader input into this. I'm seeing that the article is pretty much written, and while there's a lot of discussion-it's mostly on minor matters like wording and formatting. By adding an excerpt of the timeline I'm using a webmaster trick of adding dynamic content into what is
3152:
After a recent update there is the following after
Foreign Support: US Senator Rand Paul has accused the US government of arming ISIL. The US government has been funding ISIL's allies, such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and supporting the terrorist group in Syria, Paul told NBC News's "Meet the Press".
1724:
I am sorry, but I have had the impression you were edit-warring as well. My impression seems confirmed by that list. Being new to Knowledge as you have protested before isn't really an excuse. You say you will never edit against consensus, but many of your edits have plainly been made in the face
1315:
Good question... It's the symbol of their "military wing" or the symbol of their "state"? If it's the symbol of their state, I think "coat of arms" is accurate. If it's just the symbol of their "military wing" then "emblem" or "seal" is more accurate. It's labeled as "seal" on most pages it appears,
302:
I sympathize with Gregkaye's concern. The 1st 5 items are what I call "public facts" and are dry details. It gets interesting when we get to "private facts" such as the (7) ideology and beliefs that drive ISIL, (8) their alleged goals, and our reaction (6,11,12) to their acts and claims. But I don't
4636:
which translates into English as The Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham. It is not Sūriyā and therefore not the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Secondly, the term used currently 'ISIL' is incorrect. Levant is not an accurate or direct translation for the word Shām. Shām is an Arabic term/name, it's
4374:
I think that, at 15 days, the content can be quite long and propose a reduction to 7 or fewer days. There is also a related disadvantage in current setup. The timeline article is set up with month title sub headings and, when these subheadings as at the beginning of a month coincide with the last
3175:
I agree. Politicians are not generally reliable sources. (No sarcasm intended.) They might be worth citing as an opinion but I'd hope we'd have at least some indication that they are explicitly referring to their contacts within the government. I'm on record (somewhere in the archives) for removing
2697:
I personally find the crucifixion content to be most readily believable. In regard to the, I believe, Kurd supplied image showing a Muslim child kicking at a pixelated area of ground, against reliable sources, I advise caution. Islam has strict rules on health issues on topics such as Halal and I
404:
I would like to explain/apologise for the timing and placement of some of my recent edits. For various reasons, which were partly due to my own responses, I had felt it difficult to respond to certain situations. Response has been late and has often been out of the continuity order of threads. This
4665:
In summary, I am pretty much saying that Knowledge is not something in which facts should be overturned for the sake of politically correct consideration. This is the only article in which I have seen fact being overruled by personal decisions on the editors part, and the considerations for others
4660:
which decries the usage of the term 'Islamic State'. That's good, it's giving the reader an impression that what this group is doing has meant it has faced questions of legitimacy from Islamic communities across the world, communities that IS claims it represents. But the fact is, it is officially
2968:
Quote: "SIL’s actions, authority and theological interpretations have been widely criticized around the world by non-Muslims and within the Muslim community." Question: how is non-Muslim criticism of the interpretation of Islam in any way relevant? Who within the Muslim community has criticized IS
1486:
I agree and think that the previous user's use of "Great Seal", unless it was somehow referenced may be a hyped comment in a similar vein as the previously used "coat of arms". Similar images to the image in question when used by recognised states in the Middle-east region, as far as I have seen,
795:
Please would editors add their comments sequentially and not insert them into discussion threads ahead of earlier comments? It is not fair on other editors coming to read the latest in a thread, as they may miss them. This a bad habit that has been growing recently and is making some discussions
428:
My quick 2 cents. Thank you, Gregkaye, for your comment about my proven record of well informed contributions. I have a quick comment on this thread. You're not the first, nor the only one, that has done this. Pot and kettle went up the hill yet black still. At least you admitted it, and at least
148:
I do not agree with this paragraph being in the Lead. The Lead is supposed to summarise the article, including criticism, but not to specify criticisms like this. This goes against the majority view reached in #Should we add this line to the Lead? and is a return to what was happening before the
4904:
The topic of allies and opponents of IS is very contentious. For example, there are copious amounts of articles on the internet which detail the collaboration between Iraqi Ba'ath loyalist groups and the Islamic State in the early stage of the current conflict in Iraq. But now finding more recent
3561:
where one RS had mistakenly associated caliphate with territory. To the extent to which the word jihadist can be honestly applied then it is best used to directly describe the people that hold "jihadist" views. In ISIL's case, I think, the state is taken as a metaphor for government and, in the
2740:
IBTimes is NOT a reliable source and should not be used in this article. They find any flimsy report from any "news source" and repost it without fact-checking. They "broke" the news about al-Baghdadi being a secret agent of the Moussad via a bogus Snowden revelation (see talk archive). I came up
1709:
Gregkaye, why are you against me? It seems you're obsessed with me. I am not against you or anyone. I am not the one pushing my POV aggressively against the consensus, that's you. You reported me, and the admin took no action against me because he found I had not violated any rule. So because the
1634:
Felino123 reverts P123ct1 and removes reference to "Muslims" from lead. ALSO ADDS: a three times cited reference to Israel in opposition. This is despite the fact that Israel's only actual involvement has been the provision of information and that the many of entries of nations that have actual
164:
Apologies for duplication of text which was my error. My thinking was that after an edit war text should be returned to an earlier state from which amendments can then be made. I don't think that a position in which text has been hacked should become the default position. Substantial criticism
4099:
I've run some load tests with Chrome developer tools. I get an average load time logged out of 2.5 seconds, logged in 20 seconds. My internet bandwidth (wireless WIMAX) is 6Mbits. The flag images from 130B to almost 1,000B each. The part that takes so long is the 13 second wait time of the 173kB
3373:
There are hundreds of Senators and former Government officials with opinions, it doesn't add anything to the core article to wade through various pollies scoring political points (particularly for those of us who aren't Americans). This is distinguished from say military analysts, who would have
3330:
Whatever the views are on Hillary Clinton's and Rand Paul's opinions, don't their judgments and beliefs deserve to be recorded? Isn't it censorship to stifle them? I have put them in a new subsection called "Political commentary", but "commentary" is not really the right word. What would be a
1125:
I have removed the "Index of names" as it is repeated in the "History of the Islamic State" template nearby and turned the "History of names" into a numbered list, which I think is clearer than the bulleted list. I do not think this list is heavy-going for an encyclopaedia. I hope this edit is
1771:
arguing that criticism of ISIL should be removed from the lead with the use of the blatantly misrepresentative statement: "Me and most users (with one exception) have made it clear." This is complete nonscence as is proven above and after this mirepresentation has been displayed for this long
278:
I think rightly so. Given that coverage of ISIL is anything but approving in the vast majority of cases and that critical wording and phraseology are commonly used, it is necessary to have issues proportionately represented in the lead. This is all the more relevant when many of the article's
3611:
Who added the "citacion needed" note to the word jihadist? We had already a discussion about this, the consensus agreed to keep using this word and I think we don't need a citacion for that, as we don't need it for Sunni or extremist. Even Arab news agencies such as Al Arabiya use this word to
2448:
the view that the "bold is not necesssary and spoils the layout" in relation to this article has been extensively discussed with the proposal and action to remove the bold only facing your recent objection. Until a different consensus is reached, the template has been reverted to the non-bold
489:
Someone has changed and lengthened a lot of titles of discussion sections, with: 'See related....'. That is undesirable. Firstly, it makes the Table of Contents very hard and tiresome to read. Secondly and perhaps more importantly: it is totally up to discussants IN a section to refer to other
4312:
of content into the history section. I also amended the headings format of the timeline article to ensure that an, at this time, unnecessary "November 2014" heading was not included in the main article TOC. Other editors may disagree but I thought this was superfluous. I was then unsure of
2507:
We are well aware of those issues as per discussion above. Having no bluelink to "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" but having a bluelink or a differently presented link to "Islamic State" when that content is present in the same article is also an undesirable behaviour. It suggests the
4616:
I have been reviewing all the past discussions in relation to the unusual plethora of names for this organisation, and therefore propose a name change. I am also eager for as many responses as possible, as I hope to also refine my knowledge of this organisation and learn from those who have
1423:
due to personal interpretation. I also think that responsibility needs to be taken of contextualised usage of the image. For instance without reference to the history of the image I think it's place on the history template, which contains information going back to 1999, is unwarranted.
3905:
becoming a static/stable article. I would hope that readers would enjoy not just reading this article once, but would also like to regularly check back to see "what's new". and without this "dynamic content" it would essentially be the same article with a few well-discussed additions.~
1772:
period of time it is only fair that facts relating to the actual situation can be presented. In all this time I have done my very best to assume good faith. I have bent over backwards to present an olive branch. I have held out hope of moderation. Nothing has been forthcoming.
2747:. The only reliable source that mentions crucifixion is the recent mention of the alleged cruficion of a 17-year old boy in Raqqah with photo. Such a photo can easily be staged and I'm going to remain sceptical unless there's significant coverage by non-tabloid sources.~
469:
Because that is what the following sentence in the article implies: "Tunisia has sent 2,400-3,000 foreign fighters to the Islamic State, more than any other nation." It makes it sound like they are actually sent by the Tunisian government, which is obviously not the
444:
the issues mentioned relate to the smooth operation of the page and thought this would be an appropriate vehicle for their mention. I can only comment on your valued and language able contributions in the time I have known you .. and will add comment, need more :)
605:
I personally find this topic to be of great interest but don't have strong opinion. I normally approve of general use of visual ques but in this case with a range of typically monochromatic and irregularly shaped symbols I don't see much if any advantage in use.
2674:
2333:
What is the point of having this template in the article anyway? As far as I can see the TOC already links to sections which this template links to. The portal it links to has no more information than this article does, it just displays it in a different way ~
641:)" which argues for removal. (However, to be fair, I also think that a significant proportions of MOS can be unnecessarily prescriptive). Since this time of the last discussion entries have been consistently afforded with their inconsistently shaped emblems.
262:
There are some criticisms in the "Ideology and beliefs" section, higher up. "Criticism" is in a logical place. It cannot be put higher as criticism follows events, described in earlier sections. Criticism put before the subject of criticism is illogical. ~
3669:
It already has an article of its own and perhaps we just need a link in history. I recently gave the section the title "Timeline (latest events)" but it still takes three lines in the TOC with the two subsections of months. Current page size is 205,088 bytes.
1458:
is a round carved emblem used to press into wax or clay as an official to "seal" a document as official and prevent tampering. On the portal a user described it as "Great Seal of Islamic State" however when I tried to Google it the only results were onwiki.
1809:, I am not against you but am certainly against what you have been doing and the extent to which you have been doing it. As you know, through all this, you conducted a clear 1RR violation. You have placed an extremely biased and misrepresentative text at
408:
A further sin in this particular thread was that, when getting an edit conflict note from P123ct1's edit, I simply copied my initially planned edit and, without taking the new edit content into account, stuck with the same text. I hope none of you does the
2099:, I not sure if there is a way to remove the bold effect from the "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" entry. The bold simply indicates link goes to the same page as the link is based. I've also added a little space between the links and the date info.
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gzipped wiki html text. When logged out the wait time is .113 seconds. Receiving time is about .8 seconds on both. I think when you are logged in you are bypassing server caching. Long story short, I don't think we should worry about the flag images. See
2827:. Reliability in each case relates to the individual ability, integrity and knowledge base of the individual reporter and related editor. When the Daily Mail gets things right with good well written and well presented content then surely it's fine.
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Would anyone prefer the "Timeline (latest events)", as I have called it, to be restored? This can easily be done and further comment either way is welcome. I am also not so certain about my "this has been a long running issue" statement. Thanks
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and others I've expand the history section to encompass names and, once again, notable members and have moved the template of history. Now the template is in context perhaps we can properly consider any issues related to the validity of its use.
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and that is a fair observation. So I would then propose that if this is really an issue, that it be the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria, as that is what Shām does refer to, a great Syria. However, I don't see it as an issue as we refer to
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as innovative, and if there's support to allow it to remain I do think it's going to be appreciated. Side note: in the last 2 weeks on the timeline the editors there have used only bare links for citations. Needs some clean up and user-education.
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While I agree with adding "Names" to "History", it seems somewhat irrational to separate "Military and arms" from "Support" and "Oppositon" by putting "Analysis" between them. I don't think "Analysis" should be so near the end of the article. ~
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As far as I can tell it depends on location. In some areas IS is fighting alongside other Iraqi insurgents and Baathists and in others (those areas where they are in control) they are persecuting them for not swearing allegiance to Baghdadi
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the analysis of Hillary Clinton (current in the "Analysis" section) and she was Secretary of State. I didn't see evidence that she was referring to her access to sources in the State Department as oppose to posturing for political purposes.
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page was then created as a redirect to an article using the non-consensus name "Islamic State". Given the title of the main article the move is obvious which, if it is to be mentioned on this page, must be mentioned in the context of its
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for the "Opposition" part, which has all the indented logos/flags removed? There is a lot information there, and I think the logos/flags in the article's current version are distracting and make it difficult to take that information in.
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And those stories are --- but, to be fair, I don't think that there is necessarily any such thing as a reliable source. Everything is relative. With my pedants hat on I'd think we should talk of secondary sources, at best, being
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scraping the timeline section in the ISIL article, having a link from the history section. We don't need 2 sections for history and timeline in the main article and the timeline article is including all the minor events for that
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TY Re: 'SIL. It is representative of a widespread view. The criticism that has been substantially has been most notably raised by governments, Muslims and academic scholars of Islam. Until recently the article had content like
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has taken the initiative and created this article. There's a story behind every flag. There are a few issues however. 1) the article needs more context and sources for verification. 2) there's a proposal to rename the article to
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scrapping the timeline. I have changed my mind as I am persuaded by the arguments put forward by Technophant for retaining at least some of the timeline in this article. I support keeping 14 days of the timeline in it. ~
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Glad to know you're not against me, but it seems otherwise. The admin took no action because, as he said, it was not clear if I violated any rule and it seems that I was right on the edge. I have answered the questions on
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I'm not sure why there's an attempt of getting rid of the bold self link. It's the usual desired behaviour when a template has a link to the page it is located on. On pages other than this one it will be rendered as blue
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in the linked discussion, I think all the logos in the "Opposition" and "Support" sections are a bad idea, as they distract from the information. I think the "Support" section in particular should be a simple list.
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It comes first thing in the see also template in history and near by there is the history infobox which also has a timeline link. i've also added a link into the main "see also" section at the bottom of the page.
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know of any way out of this. The "who, what, where, when" must come before the "why." Perhaps we could put "(1) Names" in an appendix. We made great strides in moving material to other articles. (edit conflict)
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It also may be relevant to note that the article, in a similar pattern to many others, refers to "the group calling itself Islamic State" at an early stage but uses other references in the title and throughout.
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To the extent that the word jihadist can be applied, I think that it can be applied in similar ways to other adjectives like communist, democratic and similar. I think that there are definite advantages in
2673:) Cynicism also relates to accuracy of press reporting especially in relation to pixelated photos presented by outlets like the Daily Mail. This case seems fairly well supported as demonstrated to search:
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That's a question that I raised in the previous thread. I think that the template adds to the user friendliness of the article without adding fresh content. To me that translates to pretty weak support.
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This template, with its link to the "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" will place that text as bold when placed on the page connected by the link. The text "Islamic State" also relates to this page.
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What would be helpful would be, if editors are to create new articles in relation to this main topic, that they supply other editors with notification of new content at some central source such as this.
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I don't understand why some of the timeline is duplicated in this article and have said so before. I support removing it and leaving a link to the timeline article along with some suitable wording. --
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I am also pleased that the initiative has been taken to create this article content. The story of the flag on the main page of the ISIL article is that it was added to the page at some time prior to
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Talk:Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events#Propose move of Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events → Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant related events
335:, see 14 Oct. You have some good ideas about moving the sections that are little more than lists. I know it is hard to read about the topic without a glossary and cast of characters/nations/groups.
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Also, I am not sure that one day since proposing this and just two editors agreeing to the removal of the timeline was enough to go ahead and delete it, which is a major step for this article. --
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The first edit mentioned within this thread cut a large section of long standing text. Any of my edits involving textual changes, or movements of text have been small scale compared to this.
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I have moved the "Support" and "Opposition" tables to near the end of the article, as they are not part of the narrative and are more like the appendix tables seen in other encyclopaedias. ~
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material detailing this partnership is harder to come by, and this article released on the 23rd of July by an Iraqi new outlet states that the Ba'ath Party of Iraq has declared war on IS.
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Algeria." which implies that the groups we are counting as allies are now part of ISIL. Not convinced we should change the geographic scope of ISIL but we need to be aware of these claims.
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What is the consensus on information regarding allies and opponents? Just yesterday, I removed an Iraqi group listed as an opponent, even though the sources did not highlight them as such.
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in restoring the analysis of Senator Clinton. Her opinion was insightful and represented an overview that was RS, appropriate, and relevant. Can you please find the diff for its removal?~
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is the preferred place to talk about the template, as it is now used on 9 pages not just here. Further talk about this template here should be limited to its use on this article. ~
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Jordan. So I think that makes Israel an opponent. Below the opponents list there were the conditions countries should fullfil in order to be on the list, but they are not anymore.
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I was thinking more of the last few paras of the article, about the group trying to record what is happening in Ar-Raqqah, but perhaps that is unreliable information as well. ~
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Greyshark says it good. I've just this to add (as others also have said): this main article gets much too long. It is now 208k, it took me almost 20 seconds to load the page. --
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I have also deleted the emblem from this template on the basis that it has no specific relevance to the topic and was unsure whether the use of space was warranted. Thoughts?
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P123ct1 adds: "" - efn|Islamic criticism of ISIL has included comment by Sunni scholars that sacrifices of ISIL are "not Jihad at all."< ref name=OpenLetToAlBagh / : -->
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Gregkaye adds "" - efn|Islamic criticism of ISIL has included comment by Sunni scholars that sacrifices of ISIL are "not Jihad at all."< ref name=OpenLetToAlBagh / : -->
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While it is good that a bit of extra info was added to WP, that info does not justify a new article on the the same flag. The article should be deleted as a duplication of
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A third solution might be to move both names and history under the title "History" and convert the current title "History" to something like "Chronology". Perhaps the
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2044:. Many changes made. Do they all need to be reverted? In the history listing I think we also need to use: self-described as the Islamic State as per main article.
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All headings cleaned up now. If encouraging editors to drive towards consensus rather than discuss topics endlessly getting nowhere is ownership, I plead guilty to
2789:", not the best sourcing in my opinion for that specifc incident. Is the man a member or just a supporter? Certainly beheadings in general happen quite frequently.
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adds: "" - efn|Islamic criticism of ISIL has included comment by Sunni scholars that sacrifices of ISIL are "not Jihad at all."< ref name=OpenLetToAlBagh / : -->
3153:"I think one of the reasons why ISIS has been emboldened is because we have been arming their allies. We have been allied with ISIS in Syria", Paul said to CNN.
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adds: "Muslims have criticized ISIL’s actions, authority, and theological interpretations." stating, "The lead should summarize "prominent controversies" per
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This is true, thank-you. There is also fairly overt content in Governance and Designation as a terrorist organization obviously presents a clear message: -->
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same way as you can have a communist government or a communist state I think that jihadist state is acceptable. However jihadist group is more accurate.
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I reduced the title text width and now the sidebar is less than 310px. I've been putting it on relevant pages. There may not be room or need for it here.
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amends qualification to: "Many Muslims ..." and states: "Changed "some" to "many" in order to avoid interpretation that "most Muslims do not criticize.""
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I would disagree because "an" is only used before vowels, and the "h" in "historic is not a vowel. It would create a grammatically incorrect statement.
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I can see how the template might be useful in other articles, but because it duplicates the TOC, I cannot see the purpose of it and think it should go.
1924:, your glowing endorsement within and the result all occurred at a time prior to the presentation of the above information. (the above is edited from
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I'm not saying that the article is "done", but the amount of major changes is slowing down and all significant issues have some coverage. I got the
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Knowledge:Village pump (technical)#Causing a within page link to appear as non bold re: template:History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
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3557:'s suggestion of "jihadist group" as not everyone in the "territory" proscribes to the groups ideologies and political views. There was a recent
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I really like both versions, but I don't really see advantage on using the logos. They are "nice", but the version with no logos seems cleaner.
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or something which denotes them as being a separate entity from mainstream Islam (Whatever that is). I understand that there is a sub-heading
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or leaving as default. Having the bold link is the behavior the user expects. Having a bluelink to top of the page is undesirable behavior.
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My ignorance is showing again. I didn't realize it was acceptable practice in Knowledge. I haven't been here long enough. Apologies. ~
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I'm not sure on the best terminology for it, but it is a symbol they use frequently, such as sticking it on the side of captured vehicles
4757:, I couldn't agree more. And the fact that its official name is not used at least in the infobox is political correctness going too far.
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Do editors agree with the current wording: "... is a Sunni, extremist, jihadist unrecognized state ...". How can a state be jihadist? ~
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Archive 14#Suggest move Template:History of the Islamic State (caliphate) to Template:History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
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perhaps you can go ahead and add. He is at the top of his profession and the reference comes from a good source. It seems appropriate.
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is not a Reliable Source. It has often been caught out giving wrong facts. Just thought the stories might be worth investigating. ~
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adds: "More than 120 Islamic scholars have indicated ISIS to be Khawarij" to beginning of last para of lead and provides two citations.
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I think that this safeguard should be added to ensure that any accounting of relevant history will be presented as a two sided story.
3616:'s phrase, it's perfect. I have never seen the terminology "jihadist state", and ISIL is not even a recognized state, so I agree with
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Unless I am misinterpreting him, Jason from nyc was arguing in favour of Hilary Clinton's comments being removed, an opinion I share.
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As the editor that first proposed the use of the template in this situation I will comment that it certainly provides a slick looking
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What do editors think about the simple list format for the "Supporters" section in Gregkaye's example above? What do they think of
1767:, I have reverted your collapse. It borders on censorship. For over a week now Felino123 has had his skewed text on display at:
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I think there needs to be a separation so it reads something like "a Sunni, extremist, jihadist group and an unrecognized state"
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and if kept (which it should not be) should definitely NOT be named "Flag of the Islamic State" against the consensus name ISIL.
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Sounds like a brilliant idea. I didn't even know that article existed! Perhaps "Military and arms" could be transferred to the
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That sounds good. Discussion now started also quoting content presented here and found via the astonishingly repetitious link:
2119:: The two links you showed don't have "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" in bold, so it must be possible to revert it. ~
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describe ISIL and describe its militants as "jihadists". I think the note is needless and gives a bad impression. I agree with
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1419:"Coat of arms" may have originally been used in this article despite of Image file title and contents and the description of a
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Maybe that has merit, but only for the Non-Syrian, Non-Iraqi opponents since they are not included in the Intervention article
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Remember you must log in and sign your comments on the talk page. Thank you! It's all on the criticism and ideology sections.
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alone contains over 1 million people. Anyway we'd need reliable sources populations estimates rather than original research.
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collapse of content ISIL's own Proposed currency - Consensus not to add to Infobox Please uncollapse as preferred/necessary.
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Following a near unanimous view that repetition of timeline content at a previous location in the article was inappropriate
4774:: The problem with the infoboxes is that they have to follow the title of the article, but basically I agree with you. ~
4715:. We have a moratorium on discussing title name change, so nothing can be done about changing the title at the moment. ~
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60kB = Probably should be divided (WP:SPLIT). There's been a proposal to start a separate article for Human Rights abuses.~
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Perhaps if agreed an editor with the know how can go ahead and make the changes otherwise I can check with viliage pump.
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It's pointless repetition that also divides history content to separate ends of the article. I see no advantage in this.
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physical involvement are uncited and, in total, there are more participants mentioned than there are citation refs added.
4249:. I've moved the onlyinclude tag down and now there's around 15 days. Moving the tag is done manually, and in case of a
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of names but that the names index to other articles. The usefulness of this in the current context may be debatable.
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I have no strong opinion one way or the other on a change but think that the text is functioning correctly. It reads:
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P123ct1 adds: "Muslims have criticized ISIL’s actions, authority and theological interpretations." to last para of lead
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I Roughly calculated the population of ISIS to be around 204,000-250,000 using information from the internet such as
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deal with less sensitive subjects than this and it may benefit clarity if all editors where possible could sign.
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Not an issue, at least for me. However, take a look at the section of text following the index as, say, from
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Moving the criticism to the end of the lead was a result of our discussion (see "Logical Order in Lead" i.e.
4483:) - I think that's a sensible move proposal. To be official it needs to be placed on the Timeline talk page.~
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Now that this link problem has been resolved I've reestablished the link ] which links to that section of
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should remain in the lead especially since the section on criticism appears so far down the article.
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I thought it could go in "Governance" or "Human rights abuses", to show exactly what is going on. ~
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contributed more on the subject than I have. I welcome any criticism to what I have written below.
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No further edits should be made to this discussion. Subsequent comments about the name to use
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and onlyinclude tags to define which parts are to be included. It was discussed originally at
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this has been a long running issue previously proposed with no opposition yet not actioned.
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worthwhile commentary on the groups battlefield tactics or potential weaknesses for example.
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I've just reduced sizes of secondary flags to a standard and I think its a fair big better.
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Not a Coat of Arms. There is no "state", just a military operation that occupies territory.
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This template is a good substitute for the "Index of names", which has now been removed. ~
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as the "Flag of the Islamic State of Iraq" and was further developed at some time prior to
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I haven't had the opportunity to evaluate Senator Paul's statements, however I agree with
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Otherwise I think something should be done about the dense appearance of history of names.
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The topic of the article that I think is more corroborated relates to crucifixion. See:
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tend to redirect to "Emblem ..." type articles. Seal is supported by content such as in
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It sounds as if the timeline has been restored to help editors rather than readers. ~
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Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant/Archive_11#Revamping_and_reduction_of_timeline
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the recent developments without having to go to another article just to read about it.
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I've tried the contrived link ]. Maybe when it loads that could work. I don't know.
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I can't see them on the article yet so maybe there is some type of info saving delay!?
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The image is described as: Coat of arms in Infobox:country (the first infobox) and as
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2156:: Should this be taken to the Village Pump (Technical) Help Desk for assistance? ~
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I am not sure why it isn't working. There has certainly been disruptive editing by
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Felino123 reverts Gregkaye and, for the first time, states "Reverting a disruption"
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Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant/Archive_10#Timeline_and_History_sections
3405:
https://en.wikipedia.org/2014_American-led_intervention_in_Iraq#Domestic_criticism
3292:
Any objections to removing the Rand Paul section for the reasons described above?
2040:, the spacing doesn't work. However the link has consistently gone by redirect at
4646:
in its full Arab name and don't refer to it as "The Base" which is what it means.
3485:
It is not a state. On a related article I just took out wording that gave ISIL a
4821:
4666:
put before scholarly truth. That's not the way it should be on an Encyclopedia.
3403:
Pauls and Clinton's comments on US actions have no place here. They belong here
1675:
1365:
but I think a term should be used that can match with similar Knowledge content.
53:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
1026:
Is the index of names really needed? What value does it add to the article? ~
4865:
4500:
4478:
2305:
which functions slightly differently from ] which, while still appearing as:
4825:
4053:
Probably all the flags and logos in the military sections slow things down,
1663:
614:
is a link to a temporarily produced version of "Support" with flags removed.
4520:. Time after time... Possible additions to the article may be warranted.
4402:
2014 military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
3894:
I'm also hoping that it is also what the readers want as well. I added the
2550:
List of wars and battles involving the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
724:
2014 military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
2240:
Until seeing it again here I didn't see the confusion and can take it up.
4849:
4643:
4590:
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3490:
3157:
1764:
1749:
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125:
1240:
How should we describe this image and what reference do we have for it?
853:
we must know the amount of people that are trapped under ISIS's flags.
1610:
and states: "Restored efn footnote (please see Talk page for reasons)".
1362:
661:, can you do an example of "Opposition" with just the logos removed? --
4857:
4841:
4833:
4829:
1641:
Felino123 reverted P123ct1 and removed reference to Muslims from lead
1508:
Reducing Islamic criticism and highlighting the involvement of Israel
1342:
1230:
429:
there is no evidence of your changing the comments of other editors.
4562:
Archive 13: Proposed move from "ISIS" to "ISIL" in the article text
3851:
I set up the Timeline to show only the most recent events by using
3493:. We need to be careful not to create a state where there is none.
2707:(ISIL OR ISIS OR Daish OR Daesh OR "Islamic State") AND crucifixion
2703:(ISIL OR ISIS OR Daish OR Daesh OR "Islamic State") AND crucifixion
4853:
4845:
4837:
3641:, who I don't think was involved in those very long discussions.
3070:
This is the 21st century, not the late 19th-early 20th century. ~
1836:
1814:
1671:
1648:
881:
279:
critical contents are typically presented so far down the page.
4861:
3190:
I have moved the para on Rand Paul to the "Analysis" section. ~
2675:(ISIL OR ISIS OR Daesh OR "Islamic State") AND (baby OR toddler)
2037:
1667:
1515:
Administrative close. Do not comment further in this section --
1455:
1084:
1073:
4586:
4553:
4445:
Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant related events
4331:
I wouldn't call it repetition per se, the material is visible (
3538:(aka Taliban-ruled Afghanistan) perhaps fits that description.
2036:
with a change in title and with result that, when displayed in
1740:
I have altered the section header "Keep headings neutral" (see
610:
is a link to a current version of "Support" with flags --- and
4499:
I've no problem with that as the title now in use wasn't mine.
1384:
Emblem is the correct term in the context of Knowledge. See:
582:
While I think the flags are a good idea, for reasons given by
484:
32:
2309:, links to a slightly different point at the top of the page.
2261:
A request relating to the issue raised here is now raised at:
1316:
but I think "coat of arms" is the most accurate terminology.
546:
it. I don't see it that way. I can guess who the IP is. ~
3649:
of the "To b or not to be" thread, and this appears. IGU. ~
1270:
Template:History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
1081:
Template:History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
3013:
which I think far better represents article content as per
1690:
Please also pay attention to the Israel in opposition issue
405:
is bad editing practice and not an example to be followed.
4571:
Archive 14: Use of "Islamic State" at least in the infobox
3702:
Agreed, a link to the timeline page should be sufficient.
3106:
Okay, it's an Anglicism, and I'm not going to debate that.
2629:
Cynical comment: Why not? Surely its just innocent jihad.
2095:
Making the changes is not meant to close discussion tho.
4057:. It has been suggested this part should be scrapped. ~
1245:
File:Seal of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.png
1233:
File:Seal of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.png
1126:
acceptable and obviously am open to challenge on it. ~
980:
Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Flag of the Islamic State
2961:
4441:
Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events
4309:
3642:
3579:
In view of the above comments, I have added "group". ~
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Felino123 reverts edits of Jason from nyc and Gregkaye
170:
The sections of the article are presented as follows.
2508:
presence of a separate article that does not exist.
1274:
How is this thing best described? Where is it cited?
3496:
Obvs. How can an unrecognized state be jihadist? ~
3258:
Yes, I favor removing Mrs. Clinton's comments, too.
1678:
as per talk page" THIS WAS A NEW SUGGESTION OF EDIT
722:
Might I suggest a more radical change? The article,
114:
I have restored text that was deleted from the lead
24:
Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant/Archive 17
4610:
No further edits should be made to this discussion.
2548:from this article only. It's quite useful, esp. on
2042:
History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
1962:
History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
919:. Please take some time to contribute if you can. ~
744:article as well, where it doesn't duplicate it. ~
528:, that was P123ct1's idea, the owner of this page.
4632:- The official name of the organisation was first
4582:
4545:
4169:: How hard is it to click on the link provided? ~
2744:(isil OR isis OR daesh OR "islamic state") crucif*
4254:I don't have to re-invent the wheel. I view this
3746:: Where is the link to the timeline article? --
1255:File:Emblem of Islamic State in Iraq and Sham.jpg
1197:Moved "Analysis" to before "Military and arms" ~
485:'See related discussion.....' addings undesirable
1597:Felino123 reverts edits of Jack Pepa and P123ct1
953:Flag of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
947:Flag of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
913:Flag of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
4579:
1873:There is no record of this on the AN/I site. ~
4693:the article may be made below in this section.
3645:. I directed the editor to those discussions
1837:#Israel should be added to the opponents' list
1815:#Israel should be added to the opponents' list
1744:) and collapsed part of the conversation (see
400:Another bad editing practice (different topic)
2078:At least as far as the template is concerned
383:_____________________________________________
110:Restoration of deleted lead text re criticism
8:
4634:ad-Dawlah al-Islāmīyah fīl-ʻIraq wa ash-Shām
3665:Propose scrapping timeline from main article
2314:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant#History
1355:Knowledge namespaces starting "coat of arms"
944:with a link to the then uncreated namespace
618:
2406:Portal:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
2195:Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn
4954:
4587:RfC: Three months moratorium on page moves
4554:RfC: Three months moratorium on page moves
2970:
1811:The word "jihad", criticism and disruption
1769:The word "jihad", criticism and disruption
1647:Gregkaye edits and states in notes: "is a
1531:The following discussion has been closed.
1511:
1359:Commons:Category:State seals of New Mexico
1253:This file states that it was derived from
185:3 Designation as a terrorist organization
4308:has cut down content to 15 days I made a
3620:that "jihadist group" is more accurate.
4970:
4957:
4639:"**** the arab words, this is 'murica!"
4102:Knowledge:Don't worry about performance
128:which has previously been discussed.
51:Do not edit the contents of this page.
2296:Revision as of 11:14, 3 November 2014
1813:. You are not answering questions at
1682:Revision as of 08:54, 27 October 2014
1645:Revision as of 16:25, 26 October 2014
1639:Revision as of 13:50, 26 October 2014
1632:Revision as of 13:50, 26 October 2014
1623:Revision as of 23:44, 25 October 2014
1614:Revision as of 15:03, 25 October 2014
1607:Revision as of 08:45, 25 October 2014
1601:Revision as of 08:34, 25 October 2014
1595:Revision as of 09:55, 24 October 2014
1585:Revision as of 01:07, 22 October 2014
1576:Revision as of 16:48, 21 October 2014
1570:Revision as of 12:10, 21 October 2014
1563:Revision as of 06:47, 21 October 2014
1550:Revision as of 12:10, 20 October 2014
1544:Revision as of 22:49, 19 October 2014
124:The text presently includes the word
7:
4604:The following discussion is closed.
2962:#Should we add this line to the lead
2307:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
2303:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
2219:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
1058:? I know we worked hard on this! ~
220:(with "edited" note added late, sry)
4788:Not exactly. The title is for the "
3821:for the provision of extra links.
3457:I agree with Gazkthul's wording. ~
2669:(late addition but in topical flow
2001:on the bottom right of the sidebar.
4654:The Islamic State (militant group)
2671:(and it doesn't seem I'm learning)
2471:Knowledge:Village_pump_(technical)
1928:following talk page discussion).
31:
4683:The discussion above is closed.
2861:Steven Hassan and Huffington Post
2606:Life in ISIL-controlled Ar-Raqqah
1341:) and I would suggest the use of
465:Does Tunisia really support ISIL?
4564:(29 September – 15 October 2014)
4240:
3717:
2869:in the Huffington Post in which
2741:with my own Google News search:
2285:
2083:
1997:Note to edit click on the small
1619:qualifies to: "Some Muslims ..."
791:Adding comments to the Talk page
36:
4597:) 21:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
4546:#Moratorium on Requested Moves
3536:Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan
3407:(US section) so I moved them.
3128:"a historic" is correct — see
2552:where it replaces the awkward
2243:08:36, 3 November 2014 edited
950:. I am less pleased that the
1:
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4934:22:49, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
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4583:Moratorium on Requested Moves
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1361:. Most specifically it is a
1227:coat of arms, seal or emblem?
1041:No, and none, in my opinion.
4746:14:07, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
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2015:03:38, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
1991:08:27, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
1941:17:21, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
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1720:11:45, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
1704:11:32, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
1525:18:51, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
1500:18:18, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
1487:are simply called emblems.
1475:16:02, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
1437:12:58, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
1415:21:50, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
1401:16:02, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
1380:03:09, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
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806:09:08, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
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556:21:42, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
538:04:48, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
520:12:14, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
500:08:01, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
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457:11:08, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
439:01:29, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
423:17:46, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
359:10:12, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
345:16:13, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
328:16:00, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
313:13:40, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
292:13:28, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
273:12:55, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
258:12:52, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
234:12:47, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
159:11:46, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
143:10:51, 31 October 2014 (UTC)
4661:known as the Islamic State.
2825:relatively reliable sources
2763:The source I quoted is the
2469:Please see the comments at
2186:Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad
1249:User:Illegitimate Barrister
4997:
3978:tool working suggested in
1971:See previous discussion:
1087:to the beginning of names.
209:11 Human rights abuses...
4860:, and then there is also
4204:Possible alternate option
3156:The first source, Iran's
2781:"The toddler's father is
1386:Category:National emblems
1022:Section 1: Index of names
901:Flag of the Islamic State
574:See previous discussion:
4686:Please do not modify it.
4607:Please do not modify it.
4569:See archived discussion
4560:See archived discussion
3019:that you have not signed
2203:Mujahideen Shura Council
1896:The case was dismissed,
1534:Please do not modify it.
906:First, I'm pleased that
637:(which is referenced by
619:#Prose instead of flags?
3784:: In the infobox it is
2301:The link ] appears as:
576:Prose instead of flags?
197:7 Ideology and beliefs
4599:
4238:: Quite possible and
3958:Management of Savagery
3422:First sentence of Lead
2954:Introduction relevance
2785:an avid Islamic State
1237:
812:their habits on that.~
621:discussion (opened by
510:on this Talk page. ~
4900:Allies/Opponent of IS
3976:User:Dr pda/prosesize
2211:Islamic State of Iraq
1688:Compare and contrast!
1257:which was created by
1247:which was created by
1236:
203:9 Territorial claims
49:of past discussions.
4874:Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
4573:(14–25 October 2014)
3471:Yes, that's better.
3017:. Other edits that
2227:Self-described as:
1659:and self-proclaimed
4820:Of course, there's
4475:(ping page creator
3132:for explanation. ~
3130:Oxford Dictionaries
796:hard to follow. ~
4870:Muslim Brotherhood
4398:support seven days
3331:better title? ~
2969:interpretations?
2677:in news to today.
1657:unrecognized state
1238:
846:Population of ISIS
18:Talk:Islamic State
4968:
4967:
4493:
4345:
4269:
4251:Zombie apocalypse
4114:
4093:
3992:
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2489:template talk
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2011:
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1348:
1347:Seal (emblem)
1344:
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531:
530:172.56.31.134
527:
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497:
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482:
481:
477:
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189:
188:4 Support...
186:
183:
182:2 History...
180:
177:
174:
173:Lead section
171:
168:
167:
160:
156:
152:
147:
146:
145:
144:
141:
133:
129:
127:
122:
121:
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98:
95:
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87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
73:
70:
68:
65:
64:
56:
52:
48:
47:
42:
35:
34:
25:
19:
4973:
4938:
4907:
4903:
4713:as it is now
4712:
4698:
4690:
4685:
4682:
4664:
4657:
4653:
4649:
4638:
4633:
4629:
4621:
4615:
4606:
4603:
4580:
4568:
4559:
4551:
4543:
4515:
4449:
4397:
4373:
4370:Corriebertus
4363:
4362:
4351:
4303:
4300:Corriebertus
4293:
4292:
4277:
4245:
4203:
4202:
4183:
4144:
4126:
4076:Corriebertus
4055:Corriebertus
4041:Corriebertus
4036:
4022:
4015:
4014:
4008:
3928:
3853:transclusion
3850:
3785:
3722:
3668:
3639:Corriebertus
3425:
3402:
3155:
3151:
3086:
3045:— Preceding
3040:
2971:— Preceding
2967:
2959:
2876:— Preceding
2864:
2824:
2804:
2786:
2782:
2764:
2743:
2663:
2662:
2609:
2584:
2545:
2473:about using
2383:
2290:
2242:
2239:
2235:
2225:
2218:
2217:
2209:
2201:
2193:
2184:
2180:
2088:
2038:ISIL#History
1998:
1979:
1972:
1967:
1895:
1789:
1739:
1687:
1626:Thegreatmuka
1533:
1460:
1451:
1421:Coat of arms
1335:Coat of arms
1276:
1273:
1263:
1252:
1242:
1239:
1085:ISIL#History
1025:
905:
856:— Preceding
849:
794:
685:this version
602:
581:
573:
563:
562:
543:
526:Corriebertus
505:
492:Corriebertus
488:
468:
407:
403:
399:
398:
238:
237:
217:
214:
211:
208:
205:
202:
199:
196:
193:
190:
187:
184:
181:
178:
175:
172:
169:
166:
163:
130:
123:
113:
85:
50:
44:
4822:South Korea
4790:common name
4538:Name change
4485:Technophant
4337:Technophant
4306:Technophant
4288:Technophant
4261:Technophant
4210:Technophant
4106:Technophant
4085:Technophant
3984:Technophant
3907:Technophant
3865:Technophant
3218:Technophant
2749:Technophant
2614:be used? ~
2493:Technophant
2478:No selflink
2446:Technophant
2427:Technophant
2410:Technophant
2369:Technophant
2189:(1999–2004)
2005:Technophant
1918:Technophant
1903:Technophant
1676:Middle East
1484:Technophant
1465:Technophant
984:Technophant
921:Technophant
814:Technophant
431:Worldedixor
176:Contents
43:This is an
4866:Boko Haram
4658:Criticisms
3647:at the end
3637:: It was
3559:discussion
2805:Daily Mail
2765:Daily Mail
2709:in News.
2449:version.
2298:finally :)
2026:TRAJAN 117
1742:WP:TALKNEW
102:Archive 20
97:Archive 19
92:Archive 18
86:Archive 17
80:Archive 16
75:Archive 15
67:Archive 10
4942:Legacypac
4910:StanMan87
4826:Argentina
4755:StanMan87
4704:StanMan87
4668:StanMan87
4585:see also
4364:GreyShark
4294:GreyShark
4016:GreyShark
3635:Felino123
3622:Felino123
3409:Legacypac
3148:Rand Paul
3051:Adantedae
2993:Felino123
2960:See also
2787:supporter
2222:(2013–14)
2214:(2006–13)
2198:(2004–06)
1854:Felino123
1841:Felino123
1807:Felino123
1793:Felino123
1712:Felino123
1664:caliphate
1653:extremist
1579:Jack Pepa
1463:a seal. ~
1407:Legacypac
1318:Felino123
1004:Legacypac
957:creation.
917:talk page
760:Legacypac
710:Felino123
544:ownership
4926:Gazkthul
4850:Portugal
4735:Gregkaye
4644:al-Qaeda
4581:See the
4544:See the
4522:Gregkaye
4471:Gregkaye
4452:Gregkaye
4420:Gregkaye
4394:Gregkaye
4377:Gregkaye
4358:Gazkthul
4315:Gregkaye
4284:Gazkthul
4236:Gregkaye
4220:Gregkaye
4012:purpose.
3954:Gregkaye
3930:Gregkaye
3823:Gregkaye
3782:Gregkaye
3766:Gregkaye
3744:Gregkaye
3728:Gregkaye
3704:Gazkthul
3672:Gregkaye
3618:Gregkaye
3614:Gazkthul
3564:Gregkaye
3555:Gazkthul
3540:Gazkthul
3491:War flag
3445:Gazkthul
3376:Gazkthul
3294:Gazkthul
3246:Gazkthul
3162:Gazkthul
3158:Press TV
3059:contribs
3047:unsigned
3023:Gregkaye
2973:unsigned
2913:Gregkaye
2890:contribs
2878:unsigned
2865:I found
2829:Gregkaye
2791:Gazkthul
2711:Gregkaye
2679:Gregkaye
2631:Gregkaye
2589:Gregkaye
2510:Gregkaye
2467:Gregkaye
2451:Gregkaye
2351:Gregkaye
2318:Gregkaye
2269:Gregkaye
2245:Gregkaye
2154:Gregkaye
2138:Gregkaye
2117:Gregkaye
2101:Gregkaye
2062:Gregkaye
2046:Gregkaye
1930:Gregkaye
1858:Gregkaye
1819:Gregkaye
1774:Gregkaye
1746:WP:TPYES
1693:Gregkaye
1661:jihadist
1489:Gregkaye
1426:Gregkaye
1390:Gregkaye
1369:Gregkaye
1351:insignia
1301:Gazkthul
1278:Gregkaye
1167:Gregkaye
1150:Gregkaye
1141:Gazkthul
1095:Gregkaye
1074:ISIL#JTJ
1056:Gregkaye
1043:Gazkthul
963:Gregkaye
886:Gazkthul
870:contribs
862:Weegee12
858:unsigned
774:Gregkaye
659:Gregkaye
643:Gregkaye
639:MOS:FLAG
633:quoted "
584:Gregkaye
508:WP:CIVIL
446:Gregkaye
412:Gregkaye
281:Gregkaye
247:Gregkaye
223:Gregkaye
200:8 Goals
179:1 Names
149:AN/I. ~
132:Gregkaye
126:Khawarij
4811:P123ct1
4776:P123ct1
4730:P123ct1
4717:P123ct1
4622:ISIS/IS
4406:P123ct1
4354:P123ct1
4280:P123ct1
4184:Support
4171:P123ct1
4132:P123ct1
4059:P123ct1
4037:Support
4009:Support
3962:P123ct1
3882:P123ct1
3819:P123ct1
3804:P123ct1
3790:P123ct1
3761:P123ct1
3748:P123ct1
3690:P123ct1
3651:P123ct1
3581:P123ct1
3498:P123ct1
3459:P123ct1
3428:P123ct1
3333:P123ct1
3192:P123ct1
3134:P123ct1
3072:P123ct1
3015:WP:LEAD
2809:P123ct1
2769:P123ct1
2728:P123ct1
2695:P123ct1
2648:P123ct1
2616:P123ct1
2585:listing
2571:P123ct1
2485:P123ct1
2431:P123ct1
2402:P123ct1
2388:P123ct1
2336:P123ct1
2158:P123ct1
2134:P123ct1
2121:P123ct1
2097:P123ct1
2080:changes
2066:P123ct1
2022:P123ct1
1983:P123ct1
1964:infobox
1892:WP:3RRN
1888:P123ct1
1875:P123ct1
1727:P123ct1
1674:in the
1617:Comitus
1588:P123ct1
1557:WP:LEAD
1461:Mos def
1452:Opinion
1363:Roundel
1199:P123ct1
1185:P123ct1
1145:P123ct1
1128:P123ct1
1113:P123ct1
1060:P123ct1
1028:P123ct1
915:on the
830:P123ct1
798:P123ct1
746:P123ct1
690:P123ct1
663:P123ct1
617:In the
603:Comment
589:P123ct1
548:P123ct1
512:P123ct1
472:Michael
470:case.--
351:P123ct1
320:P123ct1
265:P123ct1
218:edited
151:P123ct1
46:archive
4868:, the
4858:Taiwan
4856:, and
4842:France
4834:Greece
4830:Russia
4691:within
4352:Ping:
4278:Ping:
4127:Oppose
3489:and a
2367:link.~
2206:(2006)
1748:). --
1343:emblem
4872:, or
4854:Burma
4846:Italy
4838:Syria
4709:WP:RS
4501:Ericl
4479:Ericl
4396:: I
4082:: -->
4023:dibra
2028:from
1672:Syria
1649:Sunni
882:Mosul
568:Logos
120:here.
16:<
4946:talk
4930:talk
4914:talk
4882:talk
4862:FIFA
4815:talk
4798:talk
4780:talk
4763:talk
4721:talk
4672:talk
4630:ISIS
4595:talk
4505:talk
4490:talk
4410:talk
4342:talk
4266:talk
4246:Done
4192:talk
4175:talk
4154:talk
4136:talk
4111:talk
4090:talk
4063:talk
4045:talk
3989:talk
3966:talk
3912:talk
3886:talk
3870:talk
3808:talk
3794:talk
3786:tiny
3752:talk
3723:Done
3708:talk
3694:talk
3655:talk
3626:talk
3585:talk
3544:talk
3534:The
3502:talk
3477:talk
3463:talk
3449:talk
3432:talk
3413:talk
3380:talk
3337:talk
3298:talk
3264:talk
3250:talk
3223:talk
3196:talk
3182:talk
3166:talk
3138:talk
3076:talk
3055:talk
3011:this
2997:talk
2981:talk
2929:diff
2886:talk
2867:this
2813:talk
2803:The
2795:talk
2773:talk
2767:. ~
2754:talk
2732:talk
2652:talk
2620:talk
2612:this
2610:Can
2575:talk
2560:talk
2498:talk
2435:talk
2415:talk
2392:talk
2374:talk
2340:talk
2291:Done
2162:talk
2125:talk
2089:Done
2070:talk
2034:this
2030:this
2010:talk
1987:talk
1922:AN/I
1908:talk
1879:talk
1845:talk
1797:talk
1754:talk
1731:talk
1716:talk
1670:and
1668:Iraq
1521:talk
1470:talk
1456:seal
1454:. A
1411:talk
1322:talk
1305:talk
1266:Seal
1261:.
1203:talk
1189:talk
1132:talk
1117:talk
1064:talk
1047:talk
1032:talk
1008:talk
989:talk
926:talk
890:talk
866:talk
834:talk
819:talk
802:talk
764:talk
750:talk
732:talk
714:talk
694:talk
667:talk
625:),
612:here
608:Here
593:talk
552:talk
534:talk
516:talk
496:talk
476:talk
435:talk
409:same
355:talk
341:talk
324:talk
309:talk
269:talk
215:...
155:talk
116:here
4591:PBS
4188:Wnt
3643:See
2556:.~
2316:.
2294:as
2032:to
1765:PBS
1750:PBS
1666:in
1517:PBS
1388:.
1349:or
1268:in
4948:)
4932:)
4916:)
4884:)
4864:,
4852:,
4848:,
4844:,
4840:,
4836:,
4832:,
4828:,
4824:,
4817:)
4800:)
4782:)
4765:)
4723:)
4674:)
4650:IS
4507:)
4443:→
4412:)
4368:,
4360:,
4356:,
4298:,
4290:,
4286:,
4282:,
4194:)
4177:)
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