Talk:Ivan Dumbadze - Knowledge (XXG)

328: 1674:: "General Dumbadze's eardrums were injured by the detonation, and about a year later he took leave for a few months to consult ear specialists in St. Petersburg and Germany. During his absence, Novitzki, Governor of Crimea, gave permission to a number of persons who had been deported to return to Yalta. At that time it was rumored that Novitzki's honesty could be disputed. As soon as General Dumbadze came back for duty after his leave, he demanded the Governor to give an explanation for his actions. "I deport, and you return, the same people!", he exclaimed. In the course of the ensuring quarrel, General Dumbadze ordered the deportation from Yalta of Governor Novitzki himself, although he was his superior - Novitzki left Yalta, but appealed to St. Petersburg." 1114:". Please look at the front pages of "Collected works" of 1926 who were the editors. Add Zurabov, Lyubimov and Roumer mentioned seperately in a preface. Add names of Felshtinsky and Chernyavsky for the reprint edition (were that you, who insisted on removal of an ’extra link’?)… I am not obliged to make abundant references for the books accessible in libraries. I'm not even obliged to provide a google books' link. I do that only to facilitate the search for those who look for further information. Not for those who seek for every possibility to deny things obvious for the readers having an experience with libraries. 557: 308: 1668:: "Dumbadze also admitted to publicly insulting officer senior in rank to him and other non-subordinates, among them the Governor of Taurida, General Vassily Novitsky, who had originally entrusted Dumbadze with the power of supreme military command in Yalta. Novitsky acting as the senior official in the region in the absence of Dumbadze, found no legal grounds for Dumbadze's expulsion of some persons, and allowed them to return to the Crimea. As a result of disagreement between them, Novitsky was expelled from the Crimea himself." (ref. 10) 2188:" (see above). Two persons, Dumbadze and Voikov are incomparable within this article to afford further promotion of the latter (unlike Pyasecki, Beckman and other noblemen equal or higher in rank than Dumbadze. Entering into too minute details concerning this assassination is hardly justified. If you want, you may write a separate article about it, where Voikov, Novikov and others will deserve more article space. As for the reference itself, it does not add anything new to Dumbadze as the main hero of this article. 1725:: "The most scandalous case involved the Governor-General of Finland, a general of cavalry named Beckmann whom Dumbadze publicly insulted. Again no significant reaction followed either from Nicholas II – who was the Grand Prince of Finland – or from the imperial ministries, and General Beckman was forced to resign. This exacerbated the relations between the Empire and its autonomous province, promoting the growth of further secession tendencies there." 1569: 205: 171: 77: 53: 541: 677: 426: 2846:; they ignore encyclopedical and scientific sources in favour of biased memoir of Dumbadze's fan, of black-hundredist press, and the secondary materials based on the above. I'm going to bring all this issues to the broader community discussion to decide upon your capability to fill Knowledge (XXG) with an unbiased material. This article must be returned to its normal, unbiased state. 769: 215: 22: 498: 487: 476: 465: 2957:. Such reverts are too easily used as a means of filibustering and blocking article development. If you have objections to an edit, be concrete. Especially if another user has been making several unrelated changes together and your objections are naturally only about part of them, it is your responsibility to make it clear which aspects your objections are about. 139: 854: 614: 384: 356: 2225: 1497: 802: 638: 1938:"More" is dozens of a smaller-scaled stories which I left behind this article. Because of historic insignificance of some policeman's wife, whose only guilt was that she abused the makeup in the Highest presence of Emperor. Costs: her expulsion from Yalta, and for her husband - a loss of career. And many more other stories like this. 2410:

confirm, from the words of police witness, that Dumbadze did not get any serious wounds. Facts, that a few minutes after Dumbadze effectively performed all the functions of a military commander also indirectly refute the hypothesis of an "ear shock" or another damage bringing incapacities and disabilities common in similar cases.

1646:. He contraposes the "severeness" of Pervukhin's critics to Dumbadze's escapates. You know (and most people don't) what this "severeness" could actually mean "in the grip of Russian censorship" of 1900s. Mocking "Pervukhin left Yalta in a hurry" — another point of source bias: author transparently sympathizes Dumbadze. 454: 87: 1703:("В ходе гарантированной ссоры генерал Думбадзе приказал выслать из Ялты Губернатора Новицкого, своего непосредственного начальника" — "As a result of inevitably ensuing quarrel general Dumbadze ordered to deport his immediate superior Governor Novitsky from Yalta") I think no further comments are necessary here. — 1614:: "A reporter, Pervukhin, severely criticized General Dumbadze's actions, in the columns of a local newspaper. Instead of deporting Pervukhin, General Dumbadze challenged him to a duel. Dumbadze told my father that he would get rid of Pervukhin without order of deportation... Pervukhin left Yalta in a hurry" 1313:

In addition to the other, one more book, based upon documents from the Historical Archive of Russia. A diary of Bogdanovich; an entrée into the highest circles, she was then in Yalta, her description directly follows the words of Gvozdevich, a local police officer. The following details also coincide

1944:

This is what people usually call a notorious and scandalous fame. You often mention "attack article" — I shall argue that this is more applicable to the persons having a present or past historical significance. Like Berlusconi, Zhirinovsky… Because these persons have something no less significant in

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First I agreed with it in a search for compromise with you. But now I see the actual reason why you wanted to 'hide' even the names of these books of modern Anerican scientists. That is because in pursuance of the biased views you want to impose and to embed here you aim to declare "Black hundreds"

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The following notice of resignation from the post of Yalta's head, which Dumbadze pointedly filed, eventually brought to the further improvement of his political position. The imperial family complained that they feel them insafe in their summer residence without Dumbadze, and a few months later he

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The authenticity of this event is under great doubt, for it has not been confirmed by any Russian newspaper. I must remind the larger context from page 257 of the "American Jewish Yearbook" for 1914-1915, which is a digest of both confirmed and unconfirmed news, sent from its correspondents in the

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know about this quarrel, were it exclusively private and "in whispering" :). The presence of subordinates is enough; and reprimanding the senior rank and position is an insult by definition of Russian Army Manuals (similar to U.S. Soldier's Code, requiring to treat seniors with dignity and respect

1146:: "Dumbadze imprisoned, expelled from Yalta and declared political unreliable many people. His victims were mostly educated people, from the middle class and even nobility; as an elite resort, Yalta had almost had no proletariat. Soon Dumbadze's arbitrariness had pushed the situation to the limit." 593:

Two paragraphs say about this impingement and the inadequate reaction of Dumbadze on it, when he set private houses on fire. I agree, it's important in the whole context of describing Dumbadze as an inadequate person. But in this case all other cases of Dumbadze's maladaptiveness may also require

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However I do not want to look an old bore. I can pick up Finnish sources confirming the "growth of further secession tendencies" exactly in connection with a known scorn to Finnish authorities, which "exacerbated relations with the Empire". And Beckmann is a name that can not be silenced in this

2922:

The above discussions between Cherurbino and DonaldDuck have become largely unreadable, because they have been inserting comments inside each other's postings. I am currently finding it impossible to figure out who actually wrote what, especially in the "more issues" and "some issues" sections.

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DonaldDuck! Juggling older and newer diffs is not a good way to dispute. Let me remind you that I corrected my mistake after that diff, and deleted the ":Category:Russian terrorism victims" again. And after that you've already asked me "why" did I remove this category. Now I must explain again,

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Four sources you mention: a next-day report from Russian newspaper and its echo in NYT are primary sources. Wrangell-Rokassovsky is a biased memorialist, and A.Ivanov is a journalist who "forgets" about such reliable source as Encyclopedia published in 1914. Another memoirs (Bogdanovich) also

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reasons for his edits and deletions. So I was just kidding with that „permission” which DonaldDuck was ritually asking for. Meanwhile, since the dispute has started here, and the compromise is sought, each party is expected to wait for explanations and proofs here (as you've noted above).

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and make reasonable edits without prior consultation. However, if your intended edits are going to shift the (N)POV perspective of the article in such a way that a reasonable observer could predict they will appear unacceptable to some other editor, then you'd better make sure you discuss

2387:: calling person having a minor scar ’a victim’ is an exaggeration, leading to a disbalance, to a distortion of the neutrality. As well as to snatch a piece about failed assassination out of historical context, making a separate section out of it, inserting lots of names, not worthy to be 2529: 2838:

that you are aware of this source). You "forget", that these are not "enemies of Black-Hundreds" in general, or of Dumbadze (as one of its known supporters) — but modern American scientists, who use the term "black-hundreds" to denote this extravagant anti-semitic political movement.

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But since Russia in the eyes of the other world is sometimes treated as an extravagant country, with no respect human values and with no firm legislative framework, I consider this remark to be nessary here. Otherwise somebody may perceive summoning to a duel in Russia of 1900s as a

2525: 564: 370: 337: 185: 1365:). Anyway, I added in a footnote: "However the coachman was wounded in his eye and the adjutant in the leg". As for the horses… the word "crippled" is used even when a horse stumbles and breaks her leg, so these are not horses whom we are writing about here. 1164: 2662:

I strongly warn you against political censorship in English Knowledge (XXG) — especially when it is based upon the views which are still not fully supported by scientists (if not to say ’considered to be marginal’) in your own country. The name

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still speaks for itself. And the discussion about to what extent it may be considered to be a version of Russian Fascism (started by American scientists) is not closed yet. Don't try to make "White Hundreds" out of the "Black" ones aforehand.

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Reported that Russian Emperor issues manifesto to " my beloved Jews," in Russian and in Yiddish, calling on them to volunteer in the Russian army, as Jewish and Russian interests are identical, and promising extension of rights. Report later

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We don't know who this editor or editors were, were they historians or not. Correct identification of the source would be "Editor of Trotsky collected works called policies established at that time by Dumbadze...", not "Historians called..."

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This article is about general Ivan Dumbadze, not about URP, or Russian right-wing populist politics. I removed some links to the articles about "black hundreds" which do not even mention Dumbadze's name. This links are not relevant here.

1928:» Considering in a detail view: a new road paved through the mountains? built cable tram like in San Francisco? Alas. Only scandals, one after another. Sets houses to fire. Patronizes anti-Semites, promotes their press which calls for 1809:

Well, respected DonaldDuck! I finally came up to the end (at a first approach; tomorrow I shall revise your questionary again). I must thank you for your claims, for they helped me to improve the article with many useful references.

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on 20:03, February 23, 2011 sounded as an ultimatum, not the counter-argument to dispute. Also, do not juggle with quotations: as for Voikov, I've posted counter-claims, against which no stronger arguments were provided by you.

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You don't agree to make small separate section about assassination attempt, but offer me to write whole new article about it? There's just not enough information about the assassination attempt in the sources to write a new

1917:". In 1900s there were about some dozens of such. Ask with Google frequency of occurrence of their names, and try to find an explanation of the predominant result on Dumbadze. So, it is not failed attempt what matters here. 2470:"Black hundreds" is vague general term, used for all right-wing populist organizationas in early 20th century. Article describes only Dumbadze's relationship with Union of Russian People, but not other such organizations. 1852:

context. But I shall not do that. I delete this sentence not only to show a good will. You were right (although you did not say this): Finno-Russian relations are not the topic of this article. They deserve a special and

1910:(1904-5). Record of service says "participated"… well, what about medals? Herioc deeds of his 16th ("Emperor Alexander III") Infantry Regiment? Unknown. So, if he were not appointed to Yalta, nobody would know his name. 1575:: "The official statement of Dumbadze that he'll "destroy every building, from which anybody shall shoot or throw a bomb" reminded presessive and punitive methods of suppressing the rebel highlander peasants of Georgia" 1252:

Yalta was an elite resort without large factories with their proletariat. So many people whom Dumbadze imprisoned, expelled from Yalta and declared political unreliable were mostly people from the middle class and even

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You ignored more than 6 my replies. I'm waiting for your confirmations or objections. As for 3-4 "answers" you gave (including one ultimatum and one counter-question), I shall respond them in an appropriate time.

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Moscow, 1989. This is reprint of biographies from the 1920th Granat encyclopedia. It was semi-official collection of autobiographies and authorized biographies of leading communists, no reasons not to believe it.

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is "regarded as the authoritative record of events and trends in Jewish life in the United States and around the world by many Jewish organizations." It is not a fringe source. You should, probably, ask at the

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Now article text is: "Dumbadze was not injured; only a visor (peak) of his forage cap was torn off by explosion". Injuries af Adjutant and coachman are omitted. Article gives impresion that no one was hurt.

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was copied from this publishers footnote to the Trotsky's article. It's not clear, was author of footnote historian or not, but it is clear that he was extremely hostile to Dumbadze, because of his party

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So, "Dumbadze and Black hundreds" section title should be changed to more precise and neutral "Dumbadze and URP". Similarly "black-hundredist newspapers" should be changed to "righ-wing newspapers" etc.

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of these "collected works". This board consists of many people, some of which are historians. So plural is a due here, whatever the name for the scope of educated people is chosen, and irrespective of "

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Also, Donald, you are not exactly a spring chicken on Wiki, and you know that you must seek consensus here (which does NOT mean a vote, but a version acceptable to all involved parties...).--

779:" is unacceptably common. Needs clarification. Please, provide the exact list of your claims do discuss each of them, one by one. Again: don't be shy in using {{citation needed}} template. 1787:

you immediately (just an hour or a few after) resumed editing the article, without waiting for me or anybody else to answer here. I've warned you afterwards upon that misproper conduct.

1456::"Owner and tenants filed lawsuits against Dumbadze, amounting to 60 thousand rubles, but Interior Minister Stolypin ordered to satisfy the claims from the Ministry of Interiour funds" 1310:(ref 10): "General Dumbadze's eardrums were injured by the detonation, and about a year later he took leave for a few months to consult ear specialists in St. Petersburg and Germany." 2881:

You also said that you never had anything against adding to the article. I was adding information about assassination attempt (about Voykov involvement, death threats, injuries). --

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their background. These are their real virtues which may counterbalance certain "dark sides". Hence, "attack article" is when negative aspects are exaggerated versus real virtues,

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When you quote another user, do not also copy the other user's signature, because that leaves the casual reader with the impression the other user himself added it at that point.

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Dumbadze challenged a civilian, a local journalist named Pervukhin, toa duel. Afterwards, he openly bragged: "Now I'll get rid of him without a warrant of deportation". (ref 10)

439: 396: 3087: 1051:"Russkoye slovo" (circ. <2-3.000 in best days) which you impose here as a source of an undisputable truth. And what you call an "article" above, is something from a 2275: 425: 3062: 2052:

transgress this ruling. No bishop would give him a blessing for such sin, as entering the premises of the synagogue, whatever the speeches he intended to say there.

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was torn off. "By explosion" is questionable (why not head? imagine a visor; rather, the horses trampled a flown away cap. Another exaggeration, customary for

2022:? (I don't mean Purishkevich, he is a politician of imperial scale). Most that Russian regional-scaled officials did was attending street rallies of the Jews. 2952:

It is also not legitimate to make blanket reverts of edits merely with the argument that they didn't have consensus or on a blanket charge of being biased

2823: 1899: 1464: 1257: 1171: 548: 366: 148: 63: 3117: 1969:(Page 59.), August 28: "At Yalta, the Prefect, General Dumbadze, in synagogue denies anti-Jewish sentiments." This should be included into this article. 298: 105: 2443:

is "primary source". 4 independent sources confirm that Dumbadze was injured, but no source is good enough for you, if it doesn't fit your own POV.--

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I consider this statement as your refusal to search for a compromise, expressed in an improperly ultimative manner. In violation of your own promise

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It seems you tend to ignore all the sources that don't fit your POV. Wrangell-Rokassovsky is "biased", Ivanov is "biased", NYT is "primary source",

1376:(?) and this explosion. If at least from 1903 Dumbadze attended the target practice of his regiment and then of Yalta garrison (if not to mention a 3082: 3067: 2930:

Do not intersperse comments of your own between paragraphs of another user, in such a way as to separate parts of their text from their signature.

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where "even nobility" is Privy Councillor Pyasecki; "" is a reference to "Biographical Dictionary". If necessary, I can also put a footnote from "

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you "forget" that the a critical view upon Dumbadze's activities has been already documented in 1913 in such a reliable encyclopedic source, as «

1737:: Again, it's Cherurbino's own original research that the telegram was insulting or promoted further secession tendencies. This is not in source. 740:

anyway exists both in the article and here, I see no reasons for keeping a vast qoutation from it on this talk page. Talk pages are supposed for

109: 2284:"Dumbadze was slightly shell-shocked and scratched (visor (peak) of his forage cap was torn off by explosion), coachman and horses were wounded" 1932:, for murdering and expelling Jews. Harboring the organizers of the assassins, so that America speaks about it. What more? Insults generals and 2034:

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

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of this article on the part of Cherurbino, in his references to other people asking "permission" to make some edits. Please keep in mind that

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Information about Pyotr Voykov involvement must be included. Voykov is prominent communist and source is reliable. This is not minute detail.

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As you might have noticed before, I've already used this source in the article. What remained was only adding extra <ref name="WR" /: -->

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Please, everybody, in the context of a potentially contentious editing situation, never make any edits without an informative edit summary.

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still applies here. Nobody is obliged to first ask permission to make an edit, or to first wait for another user to respond to a proposal.

1292:: "Dumbadze was slightly shell-shocked and scratched (piece of his cap was torn away by the explosion), coachmen and horses were wounded." 250: 104:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge (XXG)'s articles about people. All interested editors are invited to 3047: 2975: 1319: 2314: 113: 2300:

All sources say that Dumbadze was injured. Cherurbino, you are continuously inserting text that is opposite to what the sources say.

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event, which would otherwise be notable and significant in a life of ~120 jewish families which were living in Yalta by that time. —

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I also note that neither the Knowledge (XXG) community at AnI, nor me were informed by you about this your unilateral renunciation.

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ended in 1864, or 5 years before Dumbadze was born. The situation was calmer than now, minor skirmishes. And after a head wound and

648:(inserted a footnote). Kindly ask you to use {{citation needed}} templates in such cases. Bold deletions look unfriendly, look like 725:". First, these are "memoires" written apart from historic documents, so W.-R. may sometime mistake in this book. Second, W.-R. is 2277:: "Col. Dumbadze, commandant of the garrison here, was slightly wounded and his Adjutant and his coachman were seriously injured." 2124:

source, both in Russia and abroad. Consequently, statement "denied antisemitic sentiments" needs other supporting source as well.

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Many paragraphs are sourced to Google books snippet views of various Russian texts. Article text differs from referenced sources.

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Why "again"? Nothing original, you might be aware of the concept of the officer's and General-Governors' honor to which every

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However it's not an "article" itself which matters here. Your comment, and your lexis take off topic. We are speaking about a

246: 228: 176: 33: 2972: 2650: 1949:. In the absence of latter, only one thing remains: "notoriously known for his antisemitic and extravagant escapades". Alas. 1769:. Just remove everything in the article text that is your original work and not supported by sources. Or I will remove it. -- 2762: 2745:. Just remove edeverything in the article text that is your original work and not supported by sources. Or I will remove it. 2742: 1766: 1298: 737: 712: 2558: 1558:: "He continued using the same presessive and punitive methods in suppressing the rebel highlander peasants of Georgia." 2082:

Again, it's your own analysys of the Bible. If you think that the source is not completely reliable, it may be added "

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For description of conflicts with reporter Pervuchin and general Novitsky we have first-hand English-language account

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Victim would denote one killed in common usage. Considering just how iffy ID's injuries were - he doesn't qualify.--

967:: "Policy carried out by Tolmachev (prefect of Odessa) and Dumbadze was called Tolmachev's-Dumbadze's dictatorship". 1623:

I agree, sources say nothing. I also suppose you are aware of the fundamentals of the "honor of the officer of the

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Upon revision of the bibliography section, I removed 2 links which were mistakenly copied with the categories list:

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Cherurbino. You were not answering at the talk page for 2 days. I thought that you agreed to my proposed changes.

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BL as a term is totally neutral and sufficintly common here, so it shall be used. It is neutral in Russian too.--

2139: 1450:, Interior Minister Stolypin ordered all claims to be paid as "incidental expenses" of the Ministry of Interior." 2761:

clearly sounds like an ultimatum, which violates the norms of dispute in Knowledge (XXG). You should know, that

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to be a "derogative term"! For the names of these books themselves are the best counter-proof of this statement.

1300:: "Col. Dumbadze, commandant of the garrison here, was slightly wounded and his Adjutant and his coachman were 761: 233: 39: 1047:

A word "article" in English has dozens of meanings. Some "articles" are those from a biased black-hundredist

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for a Russian general. You cannot also deny that duel was an offense against the laws of the Russian Empire.

1582:(I remember you called it a "first-hand" source). War methods of Russian army in Caucasus are widely known. 936: 556: 395:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a 307: 2040: 1628: 957::"Historians called the regime established by Dumbadze the "dictatorship of the Tolmachyov-Dumbadze type", 2776: 1624: 2927:

Every bit of text needs to stand directly adjacent to the authentic signature of the user who added it.

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I'm not going to discuss my interpretations of sources, concepts of honor, legality etc. This would be

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I'm not going to discuss my interpretations of sources, concepts of honor, legality etc. This would be

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Thank you very much again. You forgot that you've already informed about it above (see second entry).

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I may guess some other motives may exist on your behalf, incliding ideology. Stating that allegedly

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Text of the leading paragraph: "...notoriously known for his antisemitic and extravagant escapades"

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http://ru.wikipedia.org/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%86%D1%8B.--

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involvement into the assassination attempt removed? The source was Voykov's biography article from

2116:)) marginal, irrealistic rumour. Speculation about Russian Orthodox general delivering a speech at 2105: 2006:

Formally, last report was not denied by "American Jewish Yearbook" (AJY) correspondents. Actually

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Now I will not make any big changes to the article, without discussing it first at the talk page.

2646:. Antisemitism: a historical encyclopedia of prejudice and persecution. Vol. 2. ABC-CLIO. p. 71. 2626: 1907: 1329: 1180: 997: 932: 2734:

without waiting for my response to your cues. Meanwhile one of your statements published at the

2647: 2565: 2548: 2515: 2501: 2341: 1814: 1785:"I will not make any big changes to the article, without discussing it first at the talk page" 897: 2964: 2946: 2843: 2784: 2641: 2474: 2392: 1731:: "...telegram of Yalta governor Dumbadze, adressed to Beckman, in which Dumbadze said:"..."" 825: 280: 1518:

It is not clear, was this Duma inquiry about the burning of the house or some other case. --

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Deiateli SSSR i revoliutsionnogo dvizheniia Rossii: Entsiklopedicheskii slovar' Granat.

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form and other means of exaggeration (sample list on request) reinforces this opinion.

733:") speaks for itself. So I would insist to be cautios in relying only upon this source. 1568: 1157:

Dumbadze imprisoned, expelled from Yalta and declared political unreliable many people

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Description of assassination attempt needs separate section, this is important event.

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Added 2 references to NYT articles about assassination attempt and burning the house

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and write a separate article upon this event. Placing a link to it in this article.

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3) Wrangell-Rokassovsky "General Dumbadze's eardrums were injured by the detonation"

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Description of assassination attempt needs separate section, this is important event

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Re: "His victims … " up to the end: i) removed "victims" to provide neutrality; ii)

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Removed some totally unsourced, originally researched, statements and POV language.

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as such. I used some of the facts he mentions to provide a comprehensive approach.

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is not a good idea to Knowledge (XXG). I've already shown above a certain bias of

1532:"not clear for you" doesn't mean "for everybody". Please read the books carefully. 204: 170: 2895:

What "2 days" are you speaking about here? Whom do you want to mislead? What you

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and giving your own personal political estimates of the sources to the forefront:

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Although this Russian text looks like a reverse translation from our old friend

1377: 1373: 980: 2992:), given the fact that in his first 18 edits DonaldDuck did not even bother to 2014:, which looks just as fantastic (if not anecdotic) as the first one. Any other 1446:

and the owners filed lawsuits against him in the amount of 60 thousand rubles.

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Thank you for asking that permission! However I've never had anything against

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about Yalta and its synagogue in "Jewish Encyclopedia" does not mention this

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in hard cover, named «Collected works…» and printed at least in 20,000 copies.

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This work also helped me to discover the background of your assessment about

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which featured authoritarianism, tyranny and violation of basic civil rights.

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Re: "in his references to other people asking „permission”" — it was a 250%

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removal of the two following links to the books of modern U. S. scientisis:

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to the source of these words, a well-known pre-revolutionary encyclopedia ("

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Refs 6 and 7 are actually identical. It appears that text about Dumbadze in

721:

However I would argue against your statement that Wrangel-Rokossowsky is a "

2765:

is not applicable to the discussions at the talk pages, so your statement "

1680:: source don't say quarrel was public or Dumbadze's words were insulting. 2687:, now you are saying that removing this links is political censorship? -- 2543:

It is not considered derogatory on ru-wiki, and is commonly used there.--

594:

separate sections. I fear that following this way is beside the purpose.

2304:

Information that adjutant and coachman were injured must not be omitted.

2294: 1620:: source don't say anything about violation of laws or officer's honor. 888:

Using primary sources, such as URP publications as facts may constitute

1627:" and you must agree that challenging civilian to a duel is worse than 1606:

In violation of both the civil laws and the norms of an officer's honor

3006: 2978: 2909: 2890: 2872: 2783:"Black hundreds" is derogative term. Such terms should be avoided per 2696: 2677: 2587: 2569: 2552: 2519: 2505: 2490: 2473:"Black hundreds" is derogative term. Such terms should be avoided per 2452: 2434: 2419: 2404: 2377: 2359: 2345: 2330: 2253: 2217: 2197: 2156: 2133: 2095: 2086:, Dumbadze denied antisemitic sentiments". But it must be included. -- 2077: 1958: 1865: 1796: 1778: 1750: 1712: 1655: 1591: 1541: 1527: 1513: 1484: 1427: 1409: 1269: 1241: 1136: 1097: 1079: 1042: 940: 901: 882: 867: 843: 788: 753: 704: 661: 627: 603: 2989: 2827: 2061: 1929: 1925: 1830: 1817:. By coincidence, most of your quotations come from a single source, 237: 2281: 1879:

Let's sum up: what are Dumbadze's deeds, for which he is known best.

922:

D "returned to his office in yalta" - he resigned and then returned?

645: 245:

Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the

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was extremely hostile to Dumbadze, because of his party affiliation

383: 355: 112:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the 2985: 2710:

Just noticed that in breach of your late promise at the AnI board

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The Black Hundreds (a derogatory term coined by their opponents...

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Also sorry for my intrusion in your text here with <nowiki: -->

1354: 138: 632:

Removed unverified assumptions about origin of Dumbadze's mother

2018:

reports about governors or city mayors in Russia making similar

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this small explosion (which he obviously exaggerates) to be the

1353:

I was wrong including Dumbadze into the list of injured. Only a

731:

This was more than he could have gotten by selling his property.

2244:— please use this technique to avoid talk page categorizing. — 2775:

I strongly advise you to withhold from further edits. Besides

1906:

in a regiment. Next, "the first great war of 20th century", a

1282:: "Horses, coachmen and Dumbadze himself were scratched, with 283:

in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.

279:

This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the

15: 3103:

Start-Class Russian, Soviet and CIS military history articles

1999:

denies anti-Jewish sentiments and promises protection to Jews

1604:: Other actions taken by Dumbadze were questionable as well. 3108:

Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force articles

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C-Class Russian, Soviet and CIS military history articles

2685:"2 links were mistakenly copied with the categories list" 1370:

he took leave for a few months to consult ear specialists

850:

Added link to NYT article about assassination attempt. —

715:

I Changed POV description to text close to this source.

338:

the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force

2955: 2953: 2896: 2815: 2795: 2754: 2723: 2684: 2607: 2578:, Knowledge (XXG) articles are not reliable sources. -- 2365: 1784: 1642:

Special remark should be made around a certain bias of

1372:" — there's no direct connection between this trip to 3073:

Start-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings

668:"Supreme Head" is not correct translation of Russian 437:

This article has been checked against the following

1504:: changed to "Trial was inevitable, but Stolypin…" 565:

Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force

522: 436: 1248:please see a new version I've just posted instead: 1084:???? I did not add anything from "Russkoye slovo". 991:(biographical reference in a publisher's footnote) 973:: multiple "Historians" but only one reference to 1415: 691:— that's what underlies "Supreme Head". See the 2804: 2781: 2739: 2712: 2032: 1884:Army General with an experience in the Caucasus 1473:inquiry concerning unlawful actions of Dumbadze 2640:Klier, John D. (2005). Richard S. Levy (ed.). 2602:Let me remind, that among the first deletions 2530:...the derogatory label of the "Black Hundred" 2120:(!!!) was not supported by any other reliable 1886:. Did he "pacify" any "notorious" gang there? 824:Klier, John D. (2005). Richard S. Levy (ed.). 975:Historical Handbook of Russian Marxist, 1999. 8: 3058:Low-importance biography (military) articles 2615:Langer, Jack (2004). James R. Millar (ed.). 2145:Knowledge (XXG):Reliable sources/Noticeboard 1837:. Wrangel's propensity to adjectives in the 989:L. Trotsky Works. vol. 4. Moscow-Leningrad. 813:Langer, Jack (2004). James R. Millar (ed.). 409:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history 1258:Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary 1172:Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary 3088:Mid-importance Start-Class Russia articles 2631:: CS1 maint: location missing publisher ( 519: 433: 350: 165: 47: 2834:(I place in quotes, because I've already 1844:Meanwhile you may see I haven't rejected 1762:of actions is a moral damage and insult. 1260:" to confirm a statement "no factories". 687:. Correct name of Dumbadze's position is 672:, "prefect" would be correct translation 2557:No mention of "derogatory" on ru-wiki - 2310:Separate section for all this is needed. 1444:Dumbadze's actions provoked indignation, 389:This article is within the scope of the 3026:was invoked but never defined (see the 3012: 2048:By no means could Dumbadze, a faithful 1020:CS1 maint: location missing publisher ( 352: 167: 49: 19: 3063:Military biography work group articles 2842:Most of your edits impose your biased 2624: 1342: 1338: 1327: 1223: 1219: 1207: 1203: 1190: 1189: 1178: 1030:Historical Handbook of Russian Marxist 1010: 1006: 995: 399:. To use this banner, please see the 3098:History of Russia task force articles 3093:Start-Class Russia (history) articles 3053:C-Class biography (military) articles 2621:. Russian History Encyclopedia. Gale. 2084:According to American Jewish Yearbook 1915:Attempted (and failed) assassasinaton 744:, not for posting primary materials. 713:Wrangel-Rokossowsky. Before the Storm 412:Template:WikiProject Military history 122:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Biography 7: 1469:III State Duma of the Russian Empire 1159:" — by coincidence, it was somebody 851: 611: 226:This article is within the scope of 98:This article is within the scope of 3018: 2391:. Let me repeat: if you insist, be 2350:Injured person is also a victim. -- 2008:a confirmation, non-derivative to " 1967:American Jewish Yearbook, 1914-1915 723:first-hand English-language account 38:It is of interest to the following 2315:Category:Russian terrorism victims 1973:nervous atmosphere at the wake of 1396:cause of Dumbadze's problems with 1384:of 1880s) — there's no reason for 281:project-independent quality rating 259:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Russia 14: 3118:C-Class military history articles 2937:Some more points about conduct: 2240:were what bothered me a lot more. 2184:I remember your first proposal: " 1467:reads: "On April 10 1908 filed 149:the military biography work group 2863:) 13:55, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2730:you resumed editing the article 2223: 1567: 1495: 852: 800: 767: 675: 636: 612: 496: 485: 474: 463: 452: 382: 354: 318:the history of Russia task force 213: 203: 169: 85: 75: 51: 20: 2524:No, it is not neutral term. 1) 1936:. Insults Duma. Insults Senate. 1829:; against Dumbadze this is the 683:You are wrong at the root with 293:This article has been rated as 3083:Mid-importance Russia articles 3068:WikiProject Biography articles 2683:5 days ago you said that this 2012:" must prove the second report 1997:General Dumbadze, in synagogue 1102:Even when you replace single " 986:Карл Маркс и Росссия в 1909 г. 912:I don't know what this means: 125:Template:WikiProject Biography 1: 3007:12:10, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2979:11:14, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2910:10:29, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2891:17:22, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2873:13:55, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2697:14:42, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2678:10:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2588:14:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2570:14:24, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2553:14:22, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2520:13:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2506:13:19, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2491:16:54, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 2453:14:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2435:14:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2420:12:46, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2405:10:08, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2378:18:54, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2360:17:16, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2346:13:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 2331:16:34, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 2254:11:15, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 2218:08:33, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 2198:17:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 2157:13:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2134:10:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2096:02:34, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 2078:18:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 2031:is proved with the following: 2026:Anecdotal background of this 1959:03:54, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 1866:02:32, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 1797:10:49, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 1779:17:03, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 1751:07:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 1713:23:44, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 1691:as well. I wonder, how would 1683:"public" applies not only to 1656:16:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 1592:23:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 1542:16:28, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 1528:02:54, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 1514:00:56, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 1485:00:46, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 1428:18:37, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 1410:22:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 1270:16:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 1242:16:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 1137:11:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 1098:18:34, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 1080:15:54, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 1043:02:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 941:04:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC) 928:returned to his Yalta office. 902:16:19, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 883:02:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 868:15:49, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 844:16:13, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 789:15:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 754:16:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 705:15:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 662:15:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 628:15:46, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 604:18:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC) 549:Military biography task force 335:This article is supported by 315:This article is supported by 146:This article is supported by 2816:diff 05:44, 23 February 2011 2796:diff 20:03, 22 February 2011 2755:diff 20:03, 22 February 2011 2724:diff 05:43, 22 February 2011 2313:Cherurbino, why you removed 1823:Relying upon a single source 816:Russian History Encyclopedia 392:Military history WikiProject 110:contribute to the discussion 3113:WikiProject Russia articles 3078:Start-Class Russia articles 2963:Everybody is welcome to be 2262:Assassination attempt again 2207:] and ] should be added. -- 2172:Why was the sentence about 2104:be included, since it is a 1169:"Думбадзе Иван Антонович". 262:Template:WikiProject Russia 3139: 3048:C-Class biography articles 2608:removal on 15:53 2011-2-21 2296:"colonel Dumbadze injured" 2270:Now look at the sources.: 1578:Quoted text is taken from 1324:. Moscow: Новости. p. 811. 457:Referencing and citation: 299:project's importance scale 2364:Cherurbino at some point 2140:American Jewish Year Book 1890:surrendered in 1859; the 1062:, which is written by an 563: 547: 518: 415:military history articles 377: 334: 314: 292: 278: 236:dedicated to coverage of 198: 145: 70: 46: 2767:I'm not going to discuss 2368:to add this category. -- 1856:study. Thank you again, 1321:Три последних самодержца 1232:") on the Russian page. 719:tag instead of deleting. 1995:At Yalta, the Prefect, 1318:Bogdanovich A. (1990). 1068:appears that was copied 919:D was forced to resign? 693:letter of Stolypin here 523:Associated task forces: 468:Coverage and accuracy: 249:, or contribute to the 2820: 2800: 2759: 2728: 2606:insisted upon was the 2138:One source is enough. 2045: 2001: 1465:Brockhaus Encyclopedia 1255: 930: 764:are not allowed here. 560: 544: 501:Supporting materials: 429: 331: 311: 142: 28:This article is rated 2703:Warning to DonaldDuck 2236:(the more category). 1982: 1922:Supreme Head of Yalta 1637:normal way of conduct 1625:Imperial Russian Army 1250: 1110:" — it doesn't mean " 925: 618:Thank you very much. 559: 543: 428: 330: 310: 141: 101:WikiProject Biography 32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 3022:The named reference 2763:WP:Original research 2743:WP:Original research 1926:ay, there's the rub! 1767:WP:Original research 1363:Wrangell-Rokossovski 1165:inserted a reference 689:главноначальствующий 371:Russian & Soviet 240:on Knowledge (XXG). 2830:counterpart to the 1947:comparable in scale 1846:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1827:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1819:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1701:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1693:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1644:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1580:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1386:Wrangel-Rokossovsky 1314:with other sources: 738:link to this source 490:Grammar and style: 443:for B-class status: 2736:Talk:Ivan Dumbadze 2441:Moskovskie novosti 2292:Moskovskie novosti 1908:Russo-Japanese War 1400:at the age of 58. 1390:implicitly suggest 1337:Unknown parameter 1308:Alternative source 1296:Alternative source 1218:Unknown parameter 1202:Unknown parameter 1070:" 70 years after. 1005:Unknown parameter 830:. ABC-CLIO. p. 71. 561: 545: 430: 397:list of open tasks 332: 312: 251:project discussion 229:WikiProject Russia 143: 128:biography articles 34:content assessment 2941:I see a sense of 2020:public statements 1302:seriously injured 1284:no serious wounds 1188:External link in 1106:" with a plural " 908:Paragraph removed 582: 581: 578: 577: 574: 573: 570: 569: 514: 513: 459:criterion not met 401:full instructions 349: 348: 345: 344: 164: 163: 160: 159: 3130: 3033: 3032: 3031: 3025: 3017: 2923:Please, people: 2818: 2798: 2757: 2726: 2707:Hi, DonaldDuck. 2656: 2636: 2630: 2622: 2231: 2227: 2226: 2211:</nowiki: --> 2050:Russian Orthodox 2043: 1934:Privy Coincilors 1571: 1503: 1499: 1498: 1491:To avoid a trial 1448:To avoid a trial 1398:otolaryngologist 1350: 1344: 1340: 1335: 1333: 1325: 1231: 1225: 1221: 1215: 1209: 1205: 1199: 1193: 1192: 1186: 1184: 1176: 1025: 1018: 1012: 1008: 1003: 1001: 993: 857: 856: 855: 831: 820: 808: 804: 803: 774: 771: 770: 679: 644: 640: 639: 617: 616: 615: 530: 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