31:
678:
perceive JR's work to be racist but that is something that can be ascertained through reviewing the lyrics. A casual reader of this article may see just the lead and never know the content of JR's songs. This article should be accurate and objective. The recent revert to remove the descriptive language in favor of a potentially biased value judgment is harmful to the informative mission of
Knowledge. 01:23, 13 December 2017 (UTC) l
950:
1099:. The garbage about "political correctness" is non-neutral, because it's choosing words in a way that specifically downplays offensive connotations to protect some people's feelings. That, incidentally, is a form of political correctness too. The simple, direct way to say it is that his lyrics were racist. That's what sources say, so that's all that matters here.
1156:
What a silly game you're trying to play. If reliable sources said that country music was inherently racist, than so should
Knowledge. Does Johnny Rebel represent the entire genre of country music? Let's see sources which say he's representative of country music in that case, or sources which say that
1042:
Someone previously described this artist in the lead as a country singer and it was reverted to "white supremacist". However, in the singles list there is a column for rankings on the country chats (which none of the listed songs attained). The lead mentions that his lyrics have overt racist content,
482:
If some totally obscure singer writes a whole bunch of songs with racist titles, in my opinion they are not appropriate for an article here, as it seems to amount to getting a racist message on
Knowledge by stealth. A small sample of his titles should be sufficient. The whole list is unnecessary. --
657:
I have manually archived most of this talk page, as it was out of date and had accumulated a lot of vandalism and forum chatter. Many of these posts were from a time when dates were not, apparently, automatically added to talk posts, and which had been modified for various reasons, which I believe
126:
The article says that only two of Rebel's songs are not about race, namely "Keep a-Workin' Big Jim" and "(Federal Aid Hell!) The Money
Belongs to Us". But then it mentions "Lâche pas la patate" (also known as "The Potato Song") which he wrote and which became a gold record in Canada for another
905:
For anyone who thinks that Johnny Rebel was David Allan Coe, keep in mind that Coe collaborated with Steve
Goodman and Shel Silverstein, both Jews. I would like to think that Johnny Rebel wouldn't have anything to do with Jews. Bob Dylan was also a Jew, though he became a Christian for a time.
677:
Someone replaced the description of Johnny Rebel's body of work as "overtly racist lyrics" with the language in this section title. I believe that including descriptive language of the songs is a superior tactic to labeling the songs as "racist". I won't deny anyone their judgment call if they
1058:
Knowledge isn't a platform for advocacy, nor is it for whitewashing. The only reason he even has an article is because of his extreme racism. He is white supremacist because reliable sources describe him as promoting white supremacy. His music is racist because sources describe his message as
700:
You already created a talk page section about this issue above, and I've already responded there. Replying to random comments from 2003 with "i leik milk" is not the same as replying to your own recent comments about changes to the article. Stick to one section per issue, please.
1157:
he's not country music at all. If you think that this racist songwriter should be defined by his genre, instead of the reason he is notable according to sources, you are wrong. Ledes summarize the reason a person is notable. If you think that his music wasn't racist
142:
Hi, yes, it's true that Pee Wee Trahan (aka Johnny Rebel) wrote "Lâche pas la patate", which contains no racial or political content. He wrote it under his real name. See this image of the 45 RPM label for the song. (It merely credits the writer as "Trahan"):
719:
This is in response to your request on my talk page to bring my revision issue to the Johnny Rebel talk page concerning the description of his songs in the lead, and you are shunting away from the discussion. Please remain on topic. Thank
127:
artist. I've listened to that and read the lyrics and it doesn't appear to have to do with race. In fact, if I found out that Johnny Rebel didn't write it, I wouldn't be surprised. Are people sure that he wrote it? --
1043:
which does not necessarily make him a white supremacist. I dropped that attribute and it was reverted. I propose a compromise - either lose the "white supremacist" in the lead or delete the country rankings list.
1125:
Alright, but you are missing the point of my proposed compromise. Are you willing to state for the record that country music is inherently racist? I would think that to be an extremely untenable position.
1229:
Any reason why that is singled out as opposed to any of his other views on race? It seems like a backhanded way to include his apologia for his past. Let readers read the linked article if they want to
1261:
374:. I don't like Johnny Rebel, either, but I think it's important to keep this entry in order to document his hatemongering, in the hope that such things don't happen again in the future. --
750:
demonstrates a lack of good faith, and also a lack of understanding of
Knowledge's policies. Both of those will necessarily impact your ability to improve this article if not addressed.
1276:
1260:
I think the intro and the song descriptions are adequate. A separate header for reparations just seems extraneous, unless he devoted a significant part of his career to that issue.
1161:
wasn't country music, then you'll need to present sources supporting these points. The column is standard boilerplate for tables of songs. It indicates the music chart ("
826:
822:
808:
257:
253:
239:
658:
means that the archiving bots do not archive them. Posting a comment on a fifteen-year old discussion is unlikely to be as effective as just making a new post.
626:
I have removed all entries from the "Associated acts" field of the infobox. There were no sources at all. Since association with this musician has negative
794:
634:. Additionally, such lists are frequently limited to independently notable acts, meaning those which have a well-sourced article, or very clearly meet
540:
wikipedia is a facts sight not a opinion sight what you guys say is opinion and this shouldnt be removed since its stateing facts not insulting a race
1059:
extremely racist. This is why he is notable at all, so this is what belongs in the lede. Your opinion is not a valid grounds for 'compromise'.
1231:
1023:
1127:
1074:
1044:
907:
721:
685:
591:
416:
108:
59:
554:
537:
and to provide information on a an artist, who, although not mainstream, is significant to a southern culture in its own right. (anon)
355:
1265:
804:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
235:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
553:
As many Johnny Rebel songs are falsely attributed to other signers, such as David Allan Coe and Johnny Cash, a list is appropriate.
1280:
79:
I'm unsure
Clifford Trahan (aka Johnny Rebel) is dead. I see no proof of this in online obituaries. Can someone provide proof?
101:
There are lots of songs by Trahan on youtube that aren't on the page.. They are legit, as there are physical records of them.
477:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
343:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
211:
1204:
617:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
440:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
869:
533:
The dates of release in order show how JR's music was in response to the
America's changing social landscape during the
392:
300:
795:
https://web.archive.org/web/20111007074927/http://www.bloodandhonourworldwide.co.uk/magazine/issue42/issue42p_14.html
997:
47:
38:
17:
1250:
825:
to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
256:
to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
1235:
1200:
1131:
1078:
1048:
1027:
911:
725:
689:
595:
420:
131:
112:
798:
388:
981:
Change " was an
American white supremacist singer " to " was an American singer " since that is opinionated
956:
860:
786:
558:
359:
291:
197:
782:
986:
960:
844:
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
832:
778:
275:
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
263:
189:
785:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
742:
I am trying to explain to you how talk pages work. Posting "please stay on topic" after comments about
196:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
1246:
1019:
1008:
681:
564:
351:
982:
128:
1170:
1104:
1064:
926:
887:
755:
706:
663:
643:
523:
461:
453:
327:
319:
223:
829:
before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
260:
before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
105:(TheErrol1975) has lots of Johnny Rebel songs on his account that aren't mentioned on the page.
1199:
Racist is not a genre, it's just a descriptive adjective. The style of music is still country.
845:
276:
1284:
1269:
1254:
1239:
1208:
1174:
1162:
1135:
1108:
1082:
1068:
1052:
1031:
1011:
990:
930:
915:
874:
759:
729:
710:
693:
667:
647:
599:
568:
465:
424:
410:
406:
396:
378:
363:
331:
305:
170:
166:
156:
152:
134:
116:
91:
87:
1165:") the song was categorized in, typically according to Billboard or similar, nothing else.
852:
283:
102:
519:
518:
Definitely agree that the article is overwhelmed. Can't we move the big article to, say,
1003:
229:
212:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090105223450/http://www.spasticmonkeys.com/lileks-blew-it/
811:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
505:
242:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by
144:
921:
This is a place to discuss improving the article, not to share your personal musings.
851:
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
282:
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
1166:
1100:
1060:
922:
751:
702:
659:
639:
635:
627:
504:
of "anything else"), in an article this short, a long list overwhelms the article. --
457:
323:
996:
Is he not mainly notable for songs with the theme of white supremacy? Also see the
631:
484:
402:
375:
205:
162:
148:
83:
818:
249:
215:
46:
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
817:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
491:
248:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
673:
Lyrics denouncing welfare, affirmative action and promoted racial segregation
590:
Before JR's songs are dismissed as "racist" - the term needs to be defined.
1095:
Neutral language doesn't mean insulting euphemisms. His lyrics are racist
799:
http://www.bloodandhonourworldwide.co.uk/magazine/issue42/issue42p_14.html
348:
I claim this page for the diplomatic methods of truth and information!!!
161:
I altered the text to correct the misinformation you spotted. Thanks. --
522:, and get this page back to a sensible sort of disambiguation page? --
534:
371:
500:
I'd agree with that also. Apart from anything else (and there is
944:
322:
discussion from 2008 is not an appropriate use of talk pages.
25:
1245:
Which of his other racist views do you feel should be shared?
452:
Reviving a malformed discussion from 2003 is not productive.
789:
for additional information. I made the following changes:
200:
for additional information. I made the following changes:
747:
743:
415:
Could someone please explain how JR was a "hatemonger"?
193:
630:
connotations, this information must be supported by a
230:
http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/artists/j/jone4600.htm
145:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WDy7HEkTRNA/maxresdefault.jpg
821:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
252:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
206:http://geocities.com/pittman1978/rebeltimes.html
807:This message was posted before February 2018.
238:This message was posted before February 2018.
216:http://www.spasticmonkeys.com/lileks-blew-it/
8:
941:Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2019
748:whether or not he may or may not be a ghost
1073:Why is your opinion grounds for anything?
1017:
894:The following discussion has been closed.
883:
777:I have just modified one external link on
679:
401:Hatemongering such as Johnny Rebel's. --
188:I have just modified 2 external links on
1262:2600:1700:9D91:770:618E:5AE4:4F3C:6A08
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
7:
473:The following discussion is closed.
339:The following discussion is closed.
387:things don't happen in the future?
1277:2600:1012:B125:B0B4:0:27:178D:D701
24:
781:. Please take a moment to review
192:. Please take a moment to review
948:
613:The discussion above is closed.
436:The discussion above is closed.
370:Thanks for removing the link to
29:
1038:Country or "white supremacist"?
746:, and your personal opinion on
204:Corrected formatting/usage for
379:18:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
364:14:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
1:
1175:01:50, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
1136:01:35, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
1109:01:31, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
1097:according to reliable sources
1083:01:26, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
1069:01:18, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
1053:01:22, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
760:01:35, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
730:01:30, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
711:01:27, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
694:01:23, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
668:01:12, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
600:00:20, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
466:01:05, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
425:00:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
332:01:05, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
117:00:24, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
1270:17:51, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
1255:19:37, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
648:22:10, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
171:17:21, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
157:17:12, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
92:16:56, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
975:to reactivate your request.
963:has been answered. Set the
875:17:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
456:posts are not appropriate.
135:10:05, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
1301:
1012:10:04, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
991:03:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
838:(last update: 5 June 2024)
774:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
569:00:49, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
411:14:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
397:16:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
306:10:31, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
269:(last update: 5 June 2024)
185:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
18:Talk:Johnny Rebel (singer)
1240:17:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
1209:09:32, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
1032:15:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
931:06:26, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
916:04:38, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
75:Clifford Trahan Deceased?
1285:06:01, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
897:Please do not modify it.
615:Please do not modify it.
475:Please do not modify it.
438:Please do not modify it.
341:Please do not modify it.
770:External links modified
181:External links modified
97:Non racist discography?
961:Johnny Rebel (singer)
779:Johnny Rebel (singer)
190:Johnny Rebel (singer)
42:of past discussions.
1225:Views on Reparations
819:regular verification
250:regular verification
103:This Youtube channel
1201:The Impartial Truth
809:After February 2018
240:After February 2018
863:InternetArchiveBot
814:InternetArchiveBot
476:
389:David H. Goldstein
383:In the hopes that
342:
294:InternetArchiveBot
245:InternetArchiveBot
1247:-Serialjoepsycho-
1163:Hot Country Songs
1034:
1022:comment added by
979:
978:
938:
937:
839:
696:
684:comment added by
474:
366:
354:comment added by
340:
270:
72:
71:
54:
53:
48:current talk page
1292:
998:discussion above
970:
966:
952:
951:
945:
899:
884:
873:
864:
837:
836:
815:
571:
349:
304:
295:
268:
267:
246:
227:
68:
56:
55:
33:
32:
26:
1300:
1299:
1295:
1294:
1293:
1291:
1290:
1289:
1232:107.138.213.159
1227:
1040:
1035:
1024:107.138.213.159
968:
964:
949:
943:
895:
882:
880:David Allan Coe
867:
862:
830:
823:have permission
813:
787:this simple FaQ
772:
675:
655:
632:reliable source
624:
622:Associated acts
619:
618:
562:
520:Clifford Trahan
479:
470:
469:
468:
447:
442:
441:
345:
336:
335:
334:
313:
298:
293:
261:
254:have permission
244:
221:
198:this simple FaQ
183:
124:
122:The Potato Song
99:
77:
64:
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
1298:
1296:
1288:
1287:
1258:
1257:
1226:
1223:
1222:
1221:
1220:
1219:
1218:
1217:
1216:
1215:
1214:
1213:
1212:
1211:
1186:
1185:
1184:
1183:
1182:
1181:
1180:
1179:
1178:
1177:
1145:
1144:
1143:
1142:
1141:
1140:
1139:
1138:
1128:47.137.183.192
1116:
1115:
1114:
1113:
1112:
1111:
1088:
1087:
1086:
1085:
1075:47.137.183.192
1045:47.137.183.192
1039:
1036:
1016:
1015:
1014:
977:
976:
953:
942:
939:
936:
935:
934:
933:
908:47.137.184.104
901:
900:
891:
890:
881:
878:
857:
856:
849:
802:
801:
793:Added archive
771:
768:
767:
766:
765:
764:
763:
762:
735:
734:
733:
732:
722:47.137.183.192
714:
713:
686:47.137.183.192
674:
671:
654:
651:
623:
620:
612:
611:
610:
609:
608:
607:
606:
605:
604:
603:
602:
592:47.137.183.192
579:
578:
577:
576:
575:
574:
573:
572:
567:comment added
543:
531:
530:
529:
528:
527:
526:
511:
510:
509:
508:
495:
494:
480:
471:
451:
450:
449:
448:
446:
443:
435:
434:
433:
432:
431:
430:
429:
428:
427:
417:47.137.183.192
346:
337:
317:
316:
315:
314:
312:
309:
288:
287:
280:
233:
232:
218:
210:Added archive
208:
182:
179:
178:
177:
176:
175:
174:
173:
129:Metropolitan90
123:
120:
109:98.148.184.132
98:
95:
76:
73:
70:
69:
62:
52:
51:
34:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1297:
1286:
1282:
1278:
1274:
1273:
1272:
1271:
1267:
1263:
1256:
1252:
1248:
1244:
1243:
1242:
1241:
1237:
1233:
1224:
1210:
1206:
1202:
1198:
1197:
1196:
1195:
1194:
1193:
1192:
1191:
1190:
1189:
1188:
1187:
1176:
1172:
1168:
1164:
1160:
1155:
1154:
1153:
1152:
1151:
1150:
1149:
1148:
1147:
1146:
1137:
1133:
1129:
1124:
1123:
1122:
1121:
1120:
1119:
1118:
1117:
1110:
1106:
1102:
1098:
1094:
1093:
1092:
1091:
1090:
1089:
1084:
1080:
1076:
1072:
1071:
1070:
1066:
1062:
1057:
1056:
1055:
1054:
1050:
1046:
1037:
1033:
1029:
1025:
1021:
1013:
1010:
1007:
1006:
1005:
999:
995:
994:
993:
992:
988:
984:
974:
971:parameter to
962:
958:
954:
947:
946:
940:
932:
928:
924:
920:
919:
918:
917:
913:
909:
903:
902:
898:
893:
892:
889:
886:
885:
879:
877:
876:
871:
866:
865:
854:
850:
847:
843:
842:
841:
834:
828:
824:
820:
816:
810:
805:
800:
796:
792:
791:
790:
788:
784:
780:
775:
769:
761:
757:
753:
749:
745:
741:
740:
739:
738:
737:
736:
731:
727:
723:
718:
717:
716:
715:
712:
708:
704:
699:
698:
697:
695:
691:
687:
683:
672:
670:
669:
665:
661:
652:
650:
649:
645:
641:
637:
633:
629:
621:
616:
601:
597:
593:
589:
588:
587:
586:
585:
584:
583:
582:
581:
580:
570:
566:
560:
556:
555:24.167.52.195
552:
551:
550:
549:
548:
547:
546:
545:
544:
541:
538:
536:
525:
524:Percy Snoodle
521:
517:
516:
515:
514:
513:
512:
507:
503:
499:
498:
497:
496:
493:
490:Well stated.
489:
488:
487:
486:
478:
467:
463:
459:
455:
444:
439:
426:
422:
418:
414:
413:
412:
408:
404:
400:
399:
398:
394:
390:
386:
382:
381:
380:
377:
373:
369:
368:
367:
365:
361:
357:
356:69.136.143.90
353:
344:
333:
329:
325:
321:
310:
308:
307:
302:
297:
296:
285:
281:
278:
274:
273:
272:
265:
259:
255:
251:
247:
241:
236:
231:
225:
219:
217:
213:
209:
207:
203:
202:
201:
199:
195:
191:
186:
180:
172:
168:
164:
160:
159:
158:
154:
150:
146:
141:
140:
139:
138:
137:
136:
133:
130:
121:
119:
118:
114:
110:
106:
104:
96:
94:
93:
89:
85:
80:
74:
67:
63:
61:
58:
57:
49:
45:
41:
40:
35:
28:
27:
19:
1275:I leik milk
1259:
1228:
1158:
1096:
1041:
1018:— Preceding
1002:
1001:
980:
972:
957:edit request
904:
896:
861:
858:
833:source check
812:
806:
803:
776:
773:
744:leiking milk
680:— Preceding
676:
656:
638:or similar.
625:
614:
563:— Preceding
542:
539:
532:
501:
481:
472:
437:
384:
347:
338:
292:
289:
264:source check
243:
237:
234:
187:
184:
125:
107:
100:
81:
78:
65:
43:
37:
888:WP:NOTFORUM
454:WP:NOTFORUM
350:—Preceding
320:WP:NOTFORUM
318:Reviving a
36:This is an
965:|answered=
870:Report bug
445:Notability
301:Report bug
853:this tool
846:this tool
653:Archiving
506:Camembert
311:wikiality
284:this tool
277:this tool
224:dead link
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1167:Grayfell
1101:Grayfell
1061:Grayfell
1020:unsigned
983:Oopsee11
923:Grayfell
859:Cheers.—
752:Grayfell
703:Grayfell
682:unsigned
660:Grayfell
640:Grayfell
458:Grayfell
352:unsigned
324:Grayfell
290:Cheers.—
1004:Ăžjarkur
783:my edit
565:undated
485:Evercat
403:Skb8721
376:Skb8721
228:tag to
194:my edit
163:Skb8721
149:Skb8721
84:Skb8721
39:archive
1009:(talk)
636:WP:GNG
628:WP:BLP
502:plenty
220:Added
132:(talk)
969:|ans=
955:This
535:1960s
492:Danny
372:crunk
147:. --
16:<
1281:talk
1266:talk
1251:talk
1236:talk
1230:know
1205:talk
1171:talk
1132:talk
1105:talk
1079:talk
1065:talk
1049:talk
1028:talk
987:talk
927:talk
912:talk
756:talk
726:talk
720:you.
707:talk
690:talk
664:talk
644:talk
596:talk
559:talk
462:talk
421:talk
407:talk
393:talk
385:what
360:talk
328:talk
167:talk
153:talk
113:talk
88:talk
967:or
959:to
827:RfC
797:to
561:)
258:RfC
214:to
1283:)
1268:)
1253:)
1238:)
1207:)
1173:)
1159:or
1134:)
1107:)
1081:)
1067:)
1051:)
1030:)
1000:–
989:)
973:no
929:)
914:)
840:.
835:}}
831:{{
758:)
728:)
709:)
692:)
666:)
646:)
598:)
464:)
423:)
409:)
395:)
362:)
330:)
271:.
266:}}
262:{{
226:}}
222:{{
169:)
155:)
115:)
90:)
82:--
1279:(
1264:(
1249:(
1234:(
1203:(
1169:(
1130:(
1103:(
1077:(
1063:(
1047:(
1026:(
985:(
925:(
910:(
872:)
868:(
855:.
848:.
754:(
724:(
705:(
688:(
662:(
642:(
594:(
557:(
460:(
419:(
405:(
391:(
358:(
326:(
303:)
299:(
286:.
279:.
165:(
151:(
111:(
86:(
50:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
