1126:: I am sorry that none of you read, or maybe understood, what I wrote above. Here the problem is not the "frenchness" of Lagrange (I know the biography of Lagrange quite well, and I knew already what DLazard writes about its activities in France), but a guideline of the manual of style: four year ago I went to ANI for this, and the outcome was clear. Please read the discussion at the ANI (I put the link above, but maybe you did not notice it), and understand the reasons why a double nationality/ethnicity in the lead presently is NOT allowed. The right way to change the lead is a change in the guideline. Why don't we go all four to the manual of style discussion page and try to change this part of the guideline bringing the arguments that DLazard brought here (forgetting please the french descent, since here we are talking about a great - grandparent out of eight, and if we would apply everywhere the same benchmark we would have three - four ethnicities for each American biography's lead, and near
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nationality. The acquisition of the French nationality changed the nationality of
Lagrange, but not its ethnicity, that's why we use "naturalised". BTW, this de-potentiates also the main objection of the creator of the Ethnicity Rule in ANI, who affirms that one cannot be A and B at the same time. We separate the definitions, ethnic and national. P.S. About Napoleon, a Corsican ethnicity was born (slowly) after the annexation to France: before 1768, Corsica was a region of Italy, and the Corsican were ethnically Italian. You can read the letters of Pasquale Paoli about it, they are very instructive. There is also a lot of good literature in French about the genesis of the Corsican identity: a good introduction is in "La Guide de la Corse", by George Ravis-Giorndani, who is an ethnologist. Bye,
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937:). First of all, the word "Italian" has nothing to do with the existence of an Italian state, but with the ethnicity. An "Italian nation" has existed at least since the 13th century, and there is general consensus about it. Dante was Italian, Leonardo da Vinci (another famous person who spent the last years of his life in France) Italian, and so on, as much as Luther was German before the birth of a German national state. Back to Lagrange, he was Italian, born in Italy, moved to Germany and finally to France. But the main point is not this, but that the mention of an ethnicity in a biography is regulated by
1152:. So your administative arguments are totally irrelevant here. I had a look at the previous discussion. It was not very conclusive, as being not formally closed. Among arguments, in favor of your view, one is relevant: It is against having two citizenships linked by a hyphen. I agree with this. I have thus edited the article by writing "Italian and French", which is an unambiguous and corresponds to article content. Again, there is no rule that can forbid that, and, if there is one, it it worth to ignore it here. By the way, Napoleon was never Italian, it was Corsican and French.
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945:, Nobel prize for physics born in Genoa, for Knowledge (XXG) is not Italian, but American, since he moved to the U.S. before he discovered anything. One can agree or not about this way of defining the ethnicity, and can try to change it (I did some years ago, but without success), but the important thing it is that this is part of a guideline, and as such can be enforced (the last discussion about Lagrange ended with a block of the other person) and spares a lot of discussions and edit warring. Bye,
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962:: Of course Lagrange became a French citizen, was a senator of the French Empire, and asked for the annexation of his homeland - Piedmont - to the Empire. None contests it. But, as you can read above, there is a Guideline of the manual of Style that should be respected, and this is the only reason why we write here only "Italian". If you are not happy with this guideline, we can open a thread on the Manual of Style discussion page and we can try to change it (I am not happy with it either).
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1246:-- is not a particularly popular or culturally relevant game, as evidenced by how brief its own Knowledge (XXG) article is. It's a stub, despite being a game that was first released more than 6 years ago. Perhaps this fact best belongs in a new section near the bottom of the article, like a "Legacy" or "References in popular culture" section? Regardless, it certainly doesn't belong where it currently is.
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are the same, and both contain the above quotation. He was from French and
Italian descent. During the 26 last years of his life, he was a French citizen, a permanent resident of Paris (France), and occupied positions that are normally reserved to citizens (such as senator). Beside his scientific
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since actually I am not happy with this rule too, what do you think if we try to use here my ignored proposal at the manual of style? I edited the article, but feel free to change it if you don't think that it is ok. I think that in such cases there should be a difference between ethnicity and
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I don't feel that I have enough experience to make a change as large as moving this/creating an entirely new section for an article this large and important / about such an important figure. I'm hoping that someone else here better knows where this should go.
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Citizenship is not about ethnicity. Italy didn't exist in 1736. Lagrange was born in Turin part of States of Savoy. He should be addressed as
Savoyard or Piedmontese (principality of Piedmont). Julius Caesar is addressed as Roman not as Italian.
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The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent
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thanks a lot for your comment, which shows that this article is still on your watchpage. :-) I propose to all of you to open a joint thread on the Lead
Section discussion page to change the
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Otherwise, it should be mentioned that he was of French descent from his father and mother, in particular descendant of
Descartes. I added a reference from the french Senate to prove it :
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guideline, which for sure as it is written now is suboptimal. I tried four year ago but have been plainly ignored, maybe with three people it will be different. 12:15, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
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production (which is not specifically linked to a geographical or ethnical context), it is also notable for activities that are specifically linked to France (Member of the
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To me, that seems like an incredibly trivial detail about
Lagrange. It has no business being in the main portion of his article. Note that the game in question --
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I find it pretty crazy that a guy this intelligent who made such contributions to science only showed interest at 17. This is a clear example of late bloomer
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Firstly you seem to interpret a guideline as a policy. Secondly, when you refer to a guideline, you must not misinterpret it, as it is the case here. In fact
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appear in the first sentence. So, I'll revert you again, as, for the moment, there is a consensus (two against one) against your opinion.
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Speaking of ethnicity, both parents' last names are French. Lagrange signed his name 'Lagrange', which means 'the barn' in French.
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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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content on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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There is a long standing description of
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on
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The issue of Lagrange's nationality/ethnicity has been discussed at length some years ago (for example
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There is a single-sentence paragraph at the end of the main section on Lagrange's page that states:
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posthumously released a character named after him for the Arcaea Song Contest 2020 Grand Prize.
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In 1761, Lagrange stood without a rival as the foremost mathematician living.
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says "If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Knowledge (XXG),
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Again, a guideline is not a policy, and, even in the case of a policy,
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Nothing will be gained by a long discussion of mathematical greatness.
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I was looking up Lagrange and that sentence struck me as trivial.
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https://twitter.com/arcaea_en/status/1391181122776670208?lang=en
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Again, I disagree that the first sentence is in accordance with
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Importance/location on page of the Lagrange character in Arcaea
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https://www.senat.fr/evenement/archives/D30/lagrange.html
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