Talk:James Earl Jones/Archive 1

1090:

reflect, as does the article. To refer to DV as "an iconic cultural figure" is highly problematic; beyond its self-evident POV, it is inaccurate - "pop culture" yes and likely temporarily; "cultural figure" - not hardly. I have no problem with expanding the lede to include mentions of prominent roles and awards, and in response to the last question above, absolutely yes. Also appropriate and cited in the article should be the fact that Jones won two Emmys in the same year, the only actor ever to do so. As to roles, allusion to

641:(mine) has now been reverted. Any third opinions? Usually it is good to mention some of the best known roles of any actor, particularly in this case so that readers can quickly put the voice to the face and name. If we decide these two are not sufficient, then I think it makes sense to add a few more of his roles to the lead, rather than removing these ones. Placing a few roles in the lead is not to imply that those are more important than others; it is merely to assist the reader in identifying the notability of the man. 2269:"Why do the films/TV shows that do not have wikiarticles in this filmography need sourcing and those in other articles do not?" Somewhere there's an essay in Knowledge (XXG) saying something to the effect that none of us are responsible for the entirety of Knowledge (XXG), but just for fixing whatever might be wrong in those articles on which we're working. Because things aren't verified in other articles doesn't mean we don't verify this article. 31: 3003: 118:"he is uncredited in some versions of the films, though some note Jones as the only African-American actor in Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" - Is that sentence suggesting he is uncredited because he is Black? I know both facts are relevant, but I can't see what else is being insinuated by including the two statements in the same sentence. Anyone? 236:"Jones has been married to Cecilia Hart since 1982, with whom he has two children, Flynn Earl Jones and Shaquonique S. Jones. He was previously married to the actor and singer Julienne Marie. They had no children. Both actors have played the role of Desdemona in the same production in which Jones played Othello." Can no one clarify that? 2861:

wager it was probably a much more gradual and intimate process than what the article is suggesting. Unless we can find another source for Jones being "forced" into public speaking, and "insisted" he recite a poem every day, I think this sentence should be edited to more accurately reflect what the cited article actually says.

2856:"The change was inspired by an English teacher who noticed Jones’ love of the written word and challenged him to confront the condition. “I’d never thought of acting until it was suggested that lessons could help me try to speak again,” he recalls, explaining that he had given up trying to speak between the ages of four and 14." 3222:

I don't understand why "Ruth (née Williams)" is presented as the mother of James Earl Jones. Ruth Jones (née Williams), was the 3rd wife of Robert Earl Jones, but she is not the mother of James. The mother of James is Ruth Jones née Connolly, as stated in "James Earl Jones : voices and silences", the

2860:

It doesn't say he was forced into public speaking, nor does it say he insisted he recite a poem every day. All it says is that this man challenged him to try and confront his fears. And given the amount of evidence against "flooding" therapy, where people are forced to confront their worst fears, I'd

2586:

With all due respect, I've found at least three entries that do not appear in either AllRovi or TCM. I would trust and assume there are no objections to cite requests at claims not cited by the two sources we give for this section. (At least one of them doesn't even appear in IMDb, which seems like a

2430:

Please be sure to read and consider the thoughts expressed in the section above - for instance it has already been stated that Allrovi cannot be used. Also plenty of examples have been given for the unreliability of blue links so if the discussion comes down for having the "cn" tags then that is fine

1937:

I'm bringing this to the talk page for discussion rather than reverting. An editor has removed citation requests from redlinked movies, saying, "red links do not require a source per the film MoS and all of these can be found at the allrovi website which is A) a reliable source and b) linked below)."

501:

Should be given a higher priority. As a New Jersey resident, I think I can speak for millions of others for which Jones and his unmistakable deep voice were almost a daily presence in our lives. He spoke for Bell Atlantic in all kinds of ways. I suspect he made more money as the spokesman for B.A. --

2207:

I'm sorry you find my good-faith efforts at discussion "melodramatic." I must confess I find it a self-contradiction when you say, "I do not claim ownership of this article I was simply pointing out that I have vetted the performances." If no one is allowed to question your "vetting," then of course

1984:

is but one example. BTW in your revert you added back a link to a DAB page that I had removed so please check what you are doing rather than blindly reverting. If you wish to get more involvement from other editors you might link to this discussion at the filmproject talk page and whatever consensus

1202:

Britannica has different rules for style than Knowledge (XXG); the "real notability" of the actor is decided by the sources, not editors' opinions, and the article highlights have to be included in the lead section. But if you have an allergy to the words "best known for", I'm OK with simply stating

3245:

I can find no evidence his grandparent's farm was in Jackson Michigan. The listed source makes no mention of where in Michigan he was raised. Other Sources say he was raised in Dublin, Michigan and went to high school in Brethren Michigan. Both are in Manistee county a long way from Jackson. It was

2612:

And your work checking them is much appreciated. Please go ahead and remove the ones that aren't listed at either site. Several discussions about filmographies over the years have concluded that we aren't trying to be comprehensive to a performers whole career. Not that we can't be if it is sourced

2169:

quite well and nowhere in it does it state that red links "must" be sourced. You have yet to answer any of my questions. What source are you going to allow for redlinks? Why do the films/TV shows that do not have wikiarticles in this filmography need sourcing and those in other articles do not? Why

1393:

If I may respond - there are extensive discussions about this on this page. The Shaw reference is a bit of a red herring - DV may be the only thing of note that he has ever done. Jones is in contrast an actor of great achievement and accomplishment who was very well-known and greatly respected long

1187:

article above does include a "perhaps best known" phrase for DV, but not as the primary point about Jones, with the voice work listed last among his major accomplishments. I'd prefer to see this article retain its integrity as an encyclopedia article and emphasize Jones' real notability as an actor

1048:

At the same time we don't have any one claiming that "voice work is secondary to actual acting roles" nor that Darth Vader is *not* important to his career (if we had one stating that, then yes there would be a POV conflict). So let's post a notice to have wider feedback if you want; but references

2452:

Ah, given this was under its own heading I didn't realise it was directly related to anything above it; I've brought it to a lower-level heading to prevent anyone else making that same assumption. I'm not saying blue links are inherently reliable, but they do offer a means of verifying information

1016:

We disagree; being the voice work for an iconic cultural figure makes that role more relevant. Darth Vader has to be included in the summary because: 1) it is the only one referenced by ALL sources that list any significant roles, which makes it above the others; and 2) because of the relevance of

606:

I have left most of the relevant text in the career section in tact but have re-organized and re-ordered it to fit Jones' genuine notability over the last 50+ years as one of the finest actors in the U.S. The fact that he won two Emmys in the same year plus a Tony (and an Obie, as yet unmentioned)

3298:

The recently-added statement "On September 23, 2022 he stepped down from voicing new lines for Darth Vader" is inaccurate, and the citation text does not match the article to which it links: it should read "Darth Vader’s Voice Emanated From War-Torn Ukraine" by Anthony Breznican, not "James steps

2048:

I found false credits that had been in articles for as long as a year. Thus, the info in blue links is every bit as likely to be unreliable and need sourcing as those that are redlinked. I do not see how your citation requests enhance the article but, as I suggested, you are perfectly free to see

1702:

Nicely done, I'd say. Some questions/suggestions. Instead of the second para as is with the stutter - a brief mention in the article - the lede would be more reflective of the article if it enumerated a half dozen or so of his roles that receive attention in the article, perhaps the Emmy roles or

1162:

I'd include the major award-winning roles in addition to the "best known for Darth Vader" voice work. I don't know what's more significant about his personal life besides the usual statistics (multi-racial heterosexual American male), but overcoming the stutter looks significant for an actor; and

2035:

This is an article where I have checked every single addition to the filmography over the last seven years and removed those that were false. So the question is what source are you going to allow for filmographies? Also, please point out the policy / guidelines that states that red links must be

832:

The only reference to Todd is on page 62, where Jones states it was a nickname only used by his uncle Randy, who was close in age to Jones. "Ruth got her visit from Randy and me -- her brother and her son, enough alike in age and now in size to be brothers. I called Randy 'Duke' and he called me

1089:

OK, and pardon my brief delay in responding. I'm not sure what you mean above by "the relevance of the character" - relevance to what? An encyclopedia article is supposed to stand as objective and neutral; Jones's significance as an actor goes far far beyond SW, and that is what the lede should

976:

Maybe your concern is that to single out one such role in the lead would make it appear as the only one for which the actor is known. To counter it, we can include something along the lines of "Jones has performed on many recognized roles throughout his career; among them, roles X, Y and Z are

972:

Then let's not use editor's POVs to select or reject the roles, but the available reliable sources. Most (all?) the biographies linked have highlighted the role as Darth Vader, so that one is a must; NOT including it is POV. Any other role or award that appears cited in two or more sources is a

701:

The edit didn't say he was best known for those roles; it just said he did those roles. It's silly that readers have to look past the lead to actually identify who the guy is. It's not POV if we simply say "Among his many roles are X, X and X". No one is disputing that he voiced the roles of

993:

The bios referenced in the article (the ones to which valid links remain) list appropriately a large number of roles, and the Darth Vader voice work is not given any more prominence over any other except in Rovi. As previous discussions have noted, one of "the most prominent actors of the 20th

2015:

If you would like to discuss this more calmly and straightforwardly, I would love to do that. The fact is, however, that the policies / guidelines you cited in your edit summary do not exist, and so I'm not sure in that case that there is an established basis for removing good-faith citation

1953:

Since we can't rely on ELs as reference citations, I'm not sure I see the harm in asking for citations for redlinked claims. Is there anything wrong with wanting reliable-source reference citations? This is an encyclopedia — what could it hurt to have footnotes for a higher level of credible

761:

I would like to point out that James Earl Jones recently became the 2012 recipient of the Marion Anderson Award. Although the award gala will not be until this November, I feel that he should still be recognized here for such an honor. Here's a link to the press release if you want proof:

332:

I know the source says that his undergraduate major was "pre-med," but in truth, that's not an actual college major. I think our source goofed. Can that be removed or changed in some way? Maybe something along the lines of, "focused on the pre-medical sciences in college" or something?

957:

also says "The first paragraph should define the topic with a neutral point of view, but without being overly specific..." and "not everything in the lead must be repeated in the body of the text. This includes specific facts such as quotations, examples, birth dates, and titles."

114:

How about his role in Sandlot. Can someone please add a filmography. He was also the narrator for an insect educational video from the 1980's. He also has one of the most distinctive voices in acting history can someone add a soundbite? This article is poor and needs major work.

1118:

Note that it is not part of the lede there and does not appear at all until the last paragraph, with voice roles appropriately subordinated to his actual acting roles. Also, the text of the Knowledge (XXG) article as it is avoids the pop culture confirmation bias that elevates

1977:

are you trying to make be adding cn tags to only this article. IMDb and Allrovi may have problems but they do not have entirely made up films on them - a thing that has occurred more than once here at Knowledge (XXG). The Turner Classic Movie site is a reliable source as well

374:

I was looking for a way to revise this phrase, perhaps by citing a review or listing awards associated with his role as Othello. Several web sites claim he won an Obie for the role, but the definitive Obie awards listing on infoplease.com does not corroborate that (though he

686:

The idea that Jones is "best-known" for two movies in which he did not even appear is recentist, superficial pop culture POV. An encyclopedia article should reflect its subject's real notability, and nearly every one of these "best-known" POVs should be removed from actors'

3302:

September 23rd is merely the date of the Vanity Fair article's publication. If you read the article, it makes it very clear that Jones had already stepped down for Obi-Wan Kenobi, acting only in a guidance role for Respeech's synthetic creation. This isn't a new change.

2016:

requests. Indeed, it's unusual for citation requests to be removed at all. I believe in this case that citation requests are reasonable, and certainly don't hurt anything. May we please discuss this without sarcasm and as two well-meaning, experienced editors? --

1413:. By several measures, he's one of the most successful film stars of all time, yet I doubt anyone would think it appropriate to remove the mention of Han Solo in his lede. And I have read the previous discussions on this page—if sources such as the BBC and the 2049:

what others think and I will go with their consensus. As to tone I can't help you there since I see far worse here every single day. I can say it might have been different if you hadn't blindly reverted and added back in the DAB link as I mentioned above.

1515:

The nice thing about RfCs if that you get non-experts voicing their opinions. I'm no film buff, and, having not read the article yet, the only role I can think of that Jones played is Darth Vader. That's what he's most famous for, and it should be there.

1981:. Since you have a bee in your bonnet about this I am not sure why you don't consider blue links as needing references as well since Knowledge (XXG) cannot be used as a RS and, indeed, false info gets added to our articles all the time of which this 1408:

I think saying the brief Vader appearance was "the only thing of note has ever done" indicates a pretty heavy pop culture bias itself. He certainly would have an article even if he had never portrayed Vader. Another article worth comparing to is

2819:

This says he graduated from university in 1955. Then it says he went into the Army in 1953 and then into drama and never mentions going back to school. This doesn't make sense and needs to be clarified. There are other issues with this article.

2474:

seems perfectly suitable for the purposes of sourcing anything we're missing. A general source for the filmography, to assuage any doubts over redlinks, is not only a good idea here but a good idea to move forward with. FL-class filmographies

2333:

And I am sorry that you find my good faith efforts at maintaining the integrety of the article to be ownership. I guess that means that we all display ownership every single day on every article on out watchlist. As to the mention of the

3384:

You're welcome and no problemo. I also looked up his autobiography and yeah...Jones never attended a private high school for boys in NYC. I'm just kind of stunned that this fake info-tidbit stayed in the article since 2009, but since it

1375:, whose role as Vader, though much smaller, is mentioned. Since his is a featured article, I think it's a good standard to judge by. It appears only two editors have voiced disagreement with this, which I find difficult to understand. -- 2043:

that was added to a navbox (which are much like a filmography) and, under your criteria as near as I can understand it, would have been allowed to remain because it went to an actual Knowledge (XXG) article. In cleaning up this mess

656:

You mentioned two voice over roles. His "face", which is well known to readers, is not seen in either of these. He has far more onscreen roles than voice ones. Placing items in the Lead is inherently POV which is why we also avoid

1707:

and the like. Also, I'd change "as well as several television, stage and film roles" to "as well as many film, stage, and television roles" since that's what's in our article - many, and a preponderance of film and stage. Also,

1636:

debut in 1957, Jones has spent more than five decades as "one of America's most distinguished and versatile actors" and has been termed "one of the greatest actors in American history." Jones has won several awards including a

1236:, and through the other sources, the emphasis is generally on breadth of career rather than on a single role. You can find such an emphasis if you're looking for it, but due weight cuts more than one way in this case. 973:

likely candidate to be included. (Also the "not everything in the lead..." guideline you quote is irrelevant; that would apply to something in the lead that is not included in the text, but this case is the opposite).

2748:

Digging into the more subtle details, consider his military service and awards. Military service awards are public records, and I feel he should have them recognized on this page. Any research moles up for the hunt?

2716:

Found the archived link. Not sure about the source — it looks like it might be the website for a documentary. We might want to upgrade, but in the meantime, it's something. I have his autobio if I can just find it!

126:

I am pretty sure the Vader / Lion King / CNN bit was actually an imitation of Jones' voice by Harry Shearer (although he did voice work in other episodes). But I cannot find a source so am not changing it at this

1849: 1030: 1498:. Omitting it because Star Wars would be "pop culture bias" seems strange, as if roles in pop culture works could not be notable and accomplished roles. It is also a good example of how his career has diversity. 882:

I just watched the Screen Actors Guild awards and they did a career retrospective on JEJ. It showed a poster for one of his earliest performances (high school or college) and it said "Todd Jones as Othello"

2700:

It looks like the military career has gradually been split in to its own section, but now has no live sources to use. Does anyone more familiar with the page know which ones cover this period of his life?

2519:

linked to above it does not state that Allrovi. Indeed it does not mention it at all except for showing how to set it up as an EL. Grapple I have had a go at adding TCM as a ref for the whole filmography.

2643:

This looks more or less resolved, but I think all the entries need to be sourced regardless of being red or blue links. Being blue-linked doesn't necessarily substantiate the claim Jones appeared in it.

2040:. I wasn't being sarcastic (and your accusations of such I find offensive) about blue links and I provided a link to false info being added to articles that you seem to have ignored. Here is another one 2099:

this article when you claim that no one is allowed to ask for citation requests because you personally will not allow it. "Point out the policy / guidelines that states that red links must be sourced"?

536:

Would you care to provide a link to these "things"? Google News returns lots of current articles about him, but none about him dying. Here's an article published today about him, so it seems unlikely.

953:

Yes to highlights of his life and to a summary of his acting career. No to "more prominent stage and film roles," which would be an editor's POV, especially since JEJ's career is so long and diverse.

1268:

That's good. The Great White Hope should be in the lead too, and we also have covered the breath of career with "one of America's most distinguished and versatile actors". This looks like consensus.

2165:

Please stop being so melodramatic. I do not claim ownership of this article I was simply pointing out that I have vetted the performances listed in the filmography to the best of my ability. I know

454:: My voice is for hire. My endorsement is not for hire. I will do a voice-over, but I cannot endorse without making a different kind of commitment. My politics are very personal and subjective.: 2969:

The wiki on JEJ could do with being put in the past tense to reflect his passing, from the opening sentence ('was' rather than 'is') to the reference to him not yet winning a particular award.

1002:

would not be appropriate to include in the lede because it does not receive any special emphasis in the majority of the cited sources and because voice work is secondary to actual acting roles.

383:

in 1964. I am not sure how significant this award is, but noting it would probably be closer to NPoV than the current wording. I couldn't make the change though since the article is locked. --

2170:

do you AGF blue links when I have given clear examples of their being wrong and not redlinks? These are inconsistencies and without explanation I do not understand where you are coming from.

867:

and other papers accept and run corrections -- so filmreference.com makes errors like everyone else. The difference is, mistakes there get in, and there's no apparent way to correct them. --

2402:

Nope, keep the tags or cite the films (or better yet, create the articles). AllRovi or the BFI should be able to verify the existence of any of the redlinks so it's not an impossible task.

2045: 1585:. We want to be representative of work for which he's best known, not do a context-less laundry list. He wasn't the star, and most people think of that as an Arnold film. Even 2457:

means of verification. I also fail to see why AllRovi has been considered unreliable; this is the first I've heard it called such. I've used it for plenty of articles before (

977:

frequently mentioned by media". That would state the importance of his whole career while give proper weight to the roles that reliable sources consider important to mention.

1094:

is fine among his other more noteworthy actual acting roles. POV is POV, even if it appears in some of the sources; what I would object to is going any farther with it than

104:

He was originally not credited in Star Wars. It wasn't until later versions that his name was included (this was a decision by both Lucas and Jones, as I understand it). -

537: 2793:

Also, this wikipedia article states that his father's name is "Robert Earl Jones" - so is "Earl" the middle name for both, or are they (non-hyphenated) "Earl Jones"es?

1749:

who in a career of over 50 years has become known as "one of America's most distinguished and versatile" and "one of the greatest actors in American history." Since his

3200:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.

2121:

I'm sorry you won't allow another editor to ask for citation requests; I've never heard of an editor removing citation requests and objecting to an editor asking for

2431:

but we should write into the various MoS for biographies - film projects - etc - that every entry be it blue red or black in a filmography needs a reliable source.

615:

was - it is simply one of his many, many film activities, so I have folded into "Film roles." There is a ton more to be done here to give Jones his real due (as an

1123:

beyond everything else Jones has done - it simply says that he is also well-known for it, and in that regard reflects the same kind of encyclopedia treatment that

309:

specifies that wikis are not allowed as reference sources. IMDb falls under that definition as it has solely user-generated content, and, as noted elsewhere at

1063:

P.S. I have a question for you: what do you think of mentioning the Honorary Academy Award in the lead? Should it be included or not, and with which criteria?

1973:

there is the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of filmogrpahies, "written by" and "recorded by" lists on Knowledge (XXG) with red links in them. What

3085: 2678:

Looks like all good. It ended up being a productive collaboration between editors initially on different sides of an issue. Knowledge (XXG) at its best. --

352:

The Education and the Military articles are intermingled to the point where the Military article starts with the word "instead." Could this be fixed up?

2346:

is one of my concerns. On the other hand the same essay would apply to adding cn tags to the bluelinks. So as mentioned below sources have been added.

1533:

And I do not think it detracts from his other fine work - it is mainly that this one item is always mentioned in the same breath as his name <g: -->

1394:

before Star Wars, and an encyclopedia article is supposed to present what is truly notable about its subject, not simply confirm pop culture biases.

3089: 1227:

I'm OK with that, as above. But if you look at the sources quoted in our Knowledge (XXG) article (and a number of these are dead links) - look here

2300:

If you think all the bluelinked items should be tagged, that's your right and you may have a point. But that's a separate discussion about your

2002:

I'm sorry to see you take on such a defensive tone; I'm not sure how dismissing my reasonably stated issue as having "a bee in your bonnet" is

3021:

text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of

2731:

Great, thanks. I'm glad that it was done so quickly. It's definitely nice to have something there until some upgraded link becomes available.

2036:

sourced. My question is why are the red links in this filmography in this article being questioned and not any others. Once again what is the

2769: 2379:

An editor has removed citation requests from movies in the filmography that do not have their own film articles. All information needs to be

714:

and other important roles instead of simply reverting (the way we reach NPOV is through consensus building and compromise, not reversion).

306: 2800: 2387:. External links, such as to IMDb, are not necessarily allowed as reference citations. Should these citation requests have been removed? -- 314: 521:

I keep seeing things all around the internet that he died, but I'm not quite sure if it's true. Could someone please varify this for me?

3279: 3253: 2937:

Comment: Really wish people would stop such rumors. My Facebook feed was flooded with it (100+ RIP's). Thanks for looking into this.

2095:"I have checked every single addition to the filmography over the last seven years" — and so no one is allowed to question you? You are 868: 837: 792: 503: 243: 3304: 2953: 2827: 587: 81: 998:, and the article here appropriately mentions that work as an "also" with his other work. I'm sure some other editors will chime in. 3223:

autobiography published in 1993 Before doing any update, as it's not a minor fact of James' life, I preferred to open a discussion.

2984: 1464:, the lead optimally should be a very concise compendium of all the article's major points, as opposed to simply an introduction. -- 829:

The first time he mentions his own name is page 43, where he quotes his mother: "'Put on your snowshoes, James Earl,' she ordered."

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I did not see this on the page, but he was also in the episode "Thor's Hammer" of "Stargate SG-1" where he played The First/Unas.

3048:

for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Knowledge (XXG) takes copyright violations very seriously.

2240:

says all information in Knowledge (XXG) must be verified. "Everything" would include redlinks. I'm sorry that wasn't more clear.

1307:

The result of this discussion is to include the role of Darth Vader, along with other roles mentioned in the article text per

2851: 1234: 1038: 3322:

Note to various IPs. Mr Jones may well be retired - he has certainly earned it - but please be aware Knowledge (XXG) needs

1730:

Agree. Nicely done. We can probably get rid of the word-echo "actor" in the first two sentences by combining them this way:

1336:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2848:"Crouch believed forced public speaking would help Jones gain confidence and insisted he recite a poem in class every day" 2074:

You really believe "what got a bee in your bonnet" and falsely claiming I was trying to disrupt Knowledge (XXG) to make a

1612:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

436: 3062:

Is it necessary to include what town he lives in? It's a reliable source but seems to me n breach of Mr. Jones's privacy.

938:. To do this, it should include a summary of the highlights in his life, more prominent stage and film roles and awards. 310: 1788:

I've included a mix of the above as the new lead. Feel free to make any additional changes that you consider necessary.

2461: 736:

you entered them they have been reverted and of those that have spoken so far there is no consensus to include them.

2627:

Thanks — that's nice of you to say, and I genuinely mean that. And you're right — we can only do the best we can. --

313:, IMDb does not "have adequate levels of editorial oversight or author credibility and lack assured persistence." -- 3161: 2006:; neither is saying sarcastically, "I am not sure why you don't consider blue links as needing references as well." 1669: 1311:, and that a reflection of reliable sources that summarize this actor's career will produce a lead in keeping with 502:

FOR YEARS --and practically "the Face and Voice of" B.A., than from all his other jobs COMBINED.--William M. Boyce

38: 3100:

article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

1979: 1551:

Star Wars, The Lion King, Dr Strangelove, and Conan the Barbarian should ALL be included in my opinion. Cheers!

1320: 836:

There it is, in Jones' own words: It was nickname based on a comic strip character. It was not his birth name. --

496:

He also made the internal announcements for the company. Imagine having Darth Vader making announcements to you?

3096:'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for 2804: 2773: 2360:

Sources have been added. As they are both lists it would not seem necessary to add them to every single entry.

1556: 1521: 816: 318: 2754: 388: 303:

In response to an editor who asked for a citation regarding the disallowed use of IMDb as a reference source:

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The source linked after "Crouch believed forced public speaking would help Jones" doesn't say that at all.

2831: 1680: 1372: 1284:

OK...howz about we sandbox a new lede here and make it collaborative before inserting it into the article?

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Thanks for the fix. I also was unaware that Allrovi was considered unreliable and now that I look at the

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been here for 14 years I didn't want someone to come along and assume it was legit and revert my edit.

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There is an ongoing disagreement about including the Darth Vader voice acting as a prominent role for

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Why does this article not mention his appearance in the episode "The Tyrant" of the show House M.D.?

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I was just watching an episode of The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon called him "Mister Earl Jones".

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down as Darth Vader" by some mystery journalist "Trevor Martino," who I can't find any mention of.

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debut in 1957 ... (and from here we can include some of the work / accolades he's amassed, as per

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the only thing etc - big, big difference, phrased that way because I didn't know much about Shaw.

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it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Knowledge (XXG) cannot accept

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This is a canard that apparently got started on IMDb. However, James Earl Jones' autobiography,

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Apparently, when James Earl Ray died, some sources announced James Earl Jones. It was an error.

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although these are not chat pages IMDb says that he voiced Mufasa just like he did in the film.

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With these cautions, I'd be interested to see what an expanded lede would look like including

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plus sustained critical acclaim has more overall significance to his true notability than the

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is iffy, but the movie did mark his first film role and is an acknowledged major classic.--

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call Vader one of Jones's most prominent roles, we're in no position to contradict them. --

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He provided the voice "tag" for the advertising campaign for Bell Atlantic (predecessor to

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are all that notable in the breadth of his career. Attempting to include them is POV. Per

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terms there. Any items in the lead should be roles that were important to his career like

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http://www.heraldscotland.com/arts-ents/stage-visual-arts/the-daddy-of-them-all-1.1007614

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Just another guy trying to be a Chemical Engineer, Nanobiotechnologist, and Mathematician

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I agree with Betty Logan. Are there any more problems or can we consider this resolved?

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essay that might apply if you regularly questioned redlinked and required and asked for

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contact addresses in order for someone to send a correction. Every site makes errors --

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that character. And we *do* have sources that give more prominence to that role (BBC: "

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I went ahead and added Allrovi. The formatting could still be altered as you see fit.

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citation requests. I hope these points have addressed your questions and concerns. --

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in the lead, as part of a summary of his career. You can see previous discussions at

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there are whole sections for education and military that could be summarized too.

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He was in the 1974 movie the cay but doesnt mention it anywhere in the article.

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needs italics. But overall I think this hits the mark for a respectable article.

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So. This information about Jones supposedly attending a private school in NYC -

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be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for

669:(in which his voice time is minimal BTW.) You will also want to take a look at 3340:

Longstanding tidbit about Jones supposedly going to "Browning School for boys"

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The DVD audio commentary for that episode confirms that it was harry Shearer.

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This is true, I was looking for a way to add this to the page, but locked.

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a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement

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Did you read what we both said. Neither of those voice roles, especially

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includes AllRovi in the same category as IMDb, which isn't considered a

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gig in which he never appeared on screen. As commercially successful as

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for reference citation but can be used as a "for further reading" EL.

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His statements on not doing endorsements apparently come from his bio:

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Please feel free to improve it and add Allrovi as another ref as well.

2125:. You say you want other editors' comments. Fine. I guess we'll do a 1300:

RfC: Should Darth Vader be mentioned in the lead of James Earl Jones?

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other entries without articles but I can't find that so that is why

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Please do not misquote and misread what I wrote, which was that SW

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On the actual phone he was the voice of "Welcome to Bell Atlantic"

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century" actually appeared in over 40 films. He did not appear in

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Also, "Army Ranger" should be capitalized. Proper-noun phrase. --

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http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/305918/James-Earl-Jones

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and keep the pop-culture perspective in a subordinated position.

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Either he earned his Ranger Tab or he "washed out". Not both.

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Is that Haydn's oratorio? If not, the link needs to be fixed.

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Knowledge (XXG): Reliable sources - Are wikis reliable sources

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and not pop-culture fanzine should do), but this is a start.

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the child who as a man would create the voice of Darth Vader

2129:. But honestly, I can't imagine there beign a consensus to 1019:

remains best known as the voice of Darth Vader in Star Wars

936:"can stand on its own as a concise version of the article" 898:

As noted above, Todd was a nickname — not a birth name. --

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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of

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James Earl Jones did not die today. Internet rumor only:

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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Film/Vandalism by 201.19.*.*

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Mufasa and Darth Vader, so it is not POV. It might be

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http://www.marianandersonaward.org/2012-Recipient.aspx

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Anyone want to mention this particularly awful event:

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September 23rd/24th reporting on step away from Vader

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as well as several television, stage and film roles.

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guideline, which states that the introduction should

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He thiUncreditedn the 2004 DVD, not surclebout 1977

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I'd suggest that there is a tipping point here. The

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Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Film#External links

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Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Film#External links

1938:I'm afraid I'm not finding anything about that at 1848:Nicole Sperling, Susan King (November 12, 2011). 1353:. You're welcome to state your position on this. 706:if they were not his highest grossing films, and 209:http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/mlkday.htm 3131:playbillvault.com, accessed September 15, 2015 2915:Thanks for posting this and for your research 402:I wrote a small bit mentioning that he played 3246:added on June 23, 2007 with no explanation. 3142:playbillvault.com, accessed February 13, 2015 1351:Lead section is not compliant with guidelines 1049:are on the side of supporting the inclusion. 914:Lead section is not compliant with guidelines 8: 3326:info add the word "retired" to the article. 3086:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting 1664:that lasted for several years. He studied a 1347:Mentioning some well known roles in the lead 634:Mentioning some well known roles in the lead 457:If that's good enough, feel free to cite it. 2104:— one of the core Knowledge (XXG) policies. 1035:the actor's famous alter ego -- Darth Vader 918:The lead section is not compliant with the 381:win a Drama Desk Award for best performance 3273: 3247: 2970: 2898:http://m.snopes.com/james-earl-jones-dead/ 2787:Is his surname "Jones" or "Earl Jones"? 1676:, before dedicating his career to acting. 75: 3009:This article has been revised as part of 3352:. It's not true so it has been removed. 2919:. If the edits keep up we could ask for 1679:On November 12, 2011, Jones received an 851:As for filmreference.com, that site has 815:by James Earl Jones and Penelope Niven ( 3157:playbillvault.com, accessed 24 May 2015 2524:Thanks ahead of time for your efforts. 1843: 1841: 1839: 1812: 379:). However, it appears his Othello did 3367:Thanks for doing the research on this 3013:. Earlier text must not be restored, 1893: 1882: 1254:is the role mentioned in every source. 673:which is why we don't need more items 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3182:Playbill, accessed September 19, 2019 924:"summarize the most important points" 813:James Earl Jones: Voices and Silences 7: 1940:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Film 1332:The following discussion is closed. 483:. Anyone remember what the tag was? 3140:"Madeline Kahn, Credits and Awards" 1481:-- in the discussion section above. 2876:Good catch. I've adjusted this. -- 2453:that is a dramatic improvement on 2078:to be proper, good-faith behavior? 24: 3180:"Robert Lopez Credits and Awards" 3129:"'The Great White Hope' Broadway" 3044:from that source. Please see our 1985:they reach will be fine with me. 1479:Include per cautions listed above 377:did win an award for Baal in 1965 3196:(vault), accessed August 5, 2019 2841: 1608:The discussion above is closed. 311:Knowledge (XXG):Reliable sources 179:Can we get one for the infobox? 29: 262:what role did he play in KH2? 3313:17:24, 25 September 2022 (UTC) 3120:(vault), retrieved May 9, 2018 3072:18:00, 10 September 2019 (UTC) 1742:(born January 17, 1931) is an 1703:high box office roles such as 1625:(born January 17, 1931) is an 930:Provide an accessible overview 441:16:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC) 393:05:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 226:14:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 3335:04:56, 23 November 2022 (UTC) 3236:14:37, 26 February 2022 (UTC) 2759:04:13, 21 December 2013 (UTC) 1798:23:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC) 1722:23:45, 26 November 2012 (UTC) 1697:22:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC) 1544:17:40, 26 November 2012 (UTC) 1526:19:58, 21 November 2012 (UTC) 1508:05:19, 19 November 2012 (UTC) 1491:05:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC) 1445:23:44, 12 November 2012 (UTC) 1427:19:49, 12 November 2012 (UTC) 1404:05:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC) 1325:23:55, 16 December 2012 (UTC) 1294:12:04, 17 November 2012 (UTC) 1278:17:51, 14 November 2012 (UTC) 1264:17:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC) 1246:17:28, 14 November 2012 (UTC) 1221:09:14, 14 November 2012 (UTC) 1198:07:28, 14 November 2012 (UTC) 1173:06:54, 14 November 2012 (UTC) 1150:05:38, 12 November 2012 (UTC) 362:19:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC) 293:07:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC) 278:07:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC) 198:23:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC) 3033:. Accordingly, the material 2809:19:26, 4 February 2014 (UTC) 2778:07:39, 31 January 2014 (UTC) 1913:"James Earl Jones Biography" 1822:"James Earl Jones Biography" 1776:00:02, 5 December 2012 (UTC) 1660:As a child Jones overcame a 1599:23:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC) 1561:20:48, 4 December 2012 (UTC) 1474:18:36, 7 November 2012 (UTC) 1385:17:42, 7 November 2012 (UTC) 1363:06:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC) 1073:06:38, 7 November 2012 (UTC) 1059:06:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC) 1012:23:15, 6 November 2012 (UTC) 987:22:42, 6 November 2012 (UTC) 968:22:26, 6 November 2012 (UTC) 948:21:32, 6 November 2012 (UTC) 908:18:34, 7 November 2012 (UTC) 893:08:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC) 710:could be resolved by adding 252:18:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC) 2958:19:09, 27 August 2015 (UTC) 2932:18:08, 27 August 2015 (UTC) 2910:16:37, 27 August 2015 (UTC) 2836:15:12, 4 October 2014 (UTC) 2741:18:54, 7 January 2013 (UTC) 2727:18:35, 7 January 2013 (UTC) 2711:18:28, 7 January 2013 (UTC) 2688:18:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC) 2670:18:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC) 2654:20:03, 6 January 2013 (UTC) 2637:00:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC) 2622:23:52, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2597:23:38, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2562:23:13, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2533:23:09, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2499:22:56, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2440:22:42, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2422:22:37, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2397:22:13, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2369:23:15, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2355:23:36, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2314:22:51, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2179:22:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2143:22:08, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 2058:21:37, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 1994:17:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 1964:17:08, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 1649:. He is also known for his 596:16:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC) 555:14:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC) 531:05:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC) 184:23:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 170:21:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC) 3417: 3262:02:30, 22 April 2022 (UTC) 3162:Billy Porter (entertainer) 3046:guideline on non-free text 2998:Possible copyright problem 2989:15:08, 12 April 2019 (UTC) 2208:you're owning the article. 1045:" at the intro paragraph). 629:05:33, 12 April 2011 (UTC) 573:01:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 467:01:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 215:02:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC) 3399:01:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC) 3380:00:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC) 3362:23:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC) 3210:16:53, 25 July 2020 (UTC) 3171:. Retrieved June 24, 2016 3053:20:28, 30 June 2019 (UTC) 3025:, but not as a source of 877:01:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC) 846:01:21, 19 June 2008 (UTC) 801:08:41, 30 June 2012 (UTC) 776:16:45, 18 June 2012 (UTC) 512:13:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC) 491:20:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC) 475:Bell Atlantic advertising 410:but some one deleted it. 343:12:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC) 323:17:43, 9 March 2008 (UTC) 131:03:36, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC) 109:07:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC) 90:23:25, 9 April 2005 (UTC) 3288:16:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC) 3191:"George Abbott Broadway" 3104:Reference named "vault": 3084:I check pages listed in 2886:23:47, 2 June 2015 (UTC) 2871:16:16, 1 June 2015 (UTC) 2133:ask for verification. -- 1687:Proposed text. Discuss. 1668:degree and served as an 1610:Please do not modify it. 1334:Please do not modify it. 745:03:22, 27 May 2011 (UTC) 724:03:00, 27 May 2011 (UTC) 697:13:54, 26 May 2011 (UTC) 682:12:51, 26 May 2011 (UTC) 651:12:36, 26 May 2011 (UTC) 415:18:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC) 189:Claymation Creation Link 96:Uncredited in Star Wars? 74:Is this article a stub? 3166:"Billy Porter Broadway" 3077:Orphaned references in 2613:but it isn't requried. 2472:Jones' filmography here 1574:? I dunno. Not exactly 817:Charles Scribner's Sons 3115:"Irving Berlin Awards" 3006: 1681:Honorary Academy Award 481:Verizon Communications 3005: 2854:All it says is this: 807:"Todd" not birth name 757:Marion Anderson Award 42:of past discussions. 18:Talk:James Earl Jones 3155:Listing on Broadway" 3125:The Great White Hope 2127:Request for Comments 1911:Rebecca Flint Marx. 1820:Rebecca Flint Marx. 1647:The Great White Hope 1579:The Great White Hope 1252:The Great White Hope 1250:...and I'd add that 712:The Great White Hope 663:The Great White Hope 348:Slurring of articles 3090:orphaned references 2375:Request for comment 2004:assuming good faith 1871:. FilmReference.com 1572:Conan the Barbarian 665:not fan items like 3007: 1643:Golden Globe Award 1617:New lead paragraph 1513:No-brainer include 1335: 865:The New York Times 819:, New York, 1993, 447:personal positions 138:Please, we need a 3290: 3278:comment added by 3264: 3252:comment added by 2991: 2975:comment added by 2961: 2944:comment added by 2846:The article says 2826:comment added by 2799:comment added by 2495: 2486: 2418: 2409: 1933:Citation requests 1915:. All Movie Guide 1824:. All Movie Guide 1415:Los Angeles Times 1333: 859:credentials, and 791:comment added by 586:comment added by 427:comment added by 280: 268:comment added by 258:Kingdom Hearts II 254: 242:comment added by 232:Ambiguous Wording 157:James Earl Carter 92: 80:comment added by 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3408: 3324:reliably sourced 3207: 3094:James Earl Jones 3079:James Earl Jones 3050:💵Money💵emoji💵 3004: 2960: 2938: 2838: 2811: 2736: 2735: 2706: 2705: 2665: 2664: 2496: 2491: 2487: 2482: 2419: 2414: 2410: 2405: 2385:reliable sources 1925: 1924: 1922: 1920: 1908: 1902: 1901: 1895: 1890: 1888: 1880: 1878: 1876: 1868: 1862: 1861: 1859: 1857: 1845: 1834: 1833: 1831: 1829: 1817: 1740:James Earl Jones 1645:for his role in 1623:James Earl Jones 1343:James Earl Jones 855:accountability, 803: 598: 546: 543: 443: 263: 237: 219:Definately NOT! 152:James Earl Jones 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3416: 3415: 3411: 3410: 3409: 3407: 3406: 3405: 3346:Browning School 3342: 3320: 3296: 3270: 3243: 3217: 3205: 3082: 3060: 3002: 3000: 2967: 2939: 2894: 2844: 2821: 2817: 2794: 2785: 2770:108.173.232.142 2766: 2733: 2732: 2703: 2702: 2698: 2696:Military career 2662: 2661: 2490: 2481: 2413: 2404: 2377: 1935: 1930: 1929: 1928: 1918: 1916: 1910: 1909: 1905: 1891: 1881: 1874: 1872: 1870: 1869: 1865: 1855: 1853: 1847: 1846: 1837: 1827: 1825: 1819: 1818: 1814: 1705:Field of Dreams 1685: 1619: 1614: 1613: 1587:Dr. Strangelove 1338: 1329: 1328: 1327: 1317:Alanscottwalker 1302: 1039:Herald Scotland 916: 809: 786: 783: 759: 636: 604: 602:Edits 4/12/2011 581: 544: 541: 519: 477: 455: 449: 422: 404:General Solomon 400: 369: 350: 330: 301: 260: 234: 205: 191: 177: 144: 124: 98: 72: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3414: 3412: 3404: 3403: 3402: 3401: 3341: 3338: 3319: 3316: 3295: 3292: 3269: 3266: 3242: 3239: 3226: 3216: 3213: 3198: 3197: 3183: 3172: 3158: 3143: 3132: 3121: 3081: 3075: 3059: 3058:Residence info 3056: 2999: 2996: 2994: 2966: 2963: 2935: 2934: 2893: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2843: 2840: 2816: 2813: 2801:24.212.139.102 2784: 2781: 2765: 2762: 2751:Nathan.k.graff 2746: 2745: 2744: 2743: 2697: 2694: 2693: 2692: 2691: 2690: 2673: 2672: 2657: 2656: 2640: 2639: 2610: 2609: 2608: 2607: 2606: 2605: 2604: 2603: 2602: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2573: 2572: 2571: 2570: 2569: 2568: 2567: 2566: 2565: 2564: 2542: 2541: 2540: 2539: 2538: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2506: 2505: 2504: 2503: 2502: 2501: 2445: 2444: 2443: 2442: 2425: 2424: 2376: 2373: 2372: 2371: 2331: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2327: 2326: 2325: 2324: 2323: 2322: 2321: 2320: 2319: 2318: 2317: 2316: 2283: 2282: 2281: 2280: 2279: 2278: 2277: 2276: 2275: 2274: 2273: 2272: 2271: 2270: 2254: 2253: 2252: 2251: 2250: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2246: 2245: 2244: 2243: 2242: 2241: 2222: 2221: 2220: 2219: 2218: 2217: 2216: 2215: 2214: 2213: 2212: 2211: 2210: 2209: 2192: 2191: 2190: 2189: 2188: 2187: 2186: 2185: 2184: 2183: 2182: 2181: 2152: 2151: 2150: 2149: 2148: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2109: 2108: 2107: 2106: 2105: 2086: 2085: 2084: 2083: 2082: 2081: 2080: 2079: 2065: 2064: 2063: 2062: 2061: 2060: 2028: 2027: 2026: 2025: 2010: 2009: 2008: 2007: 1997: 1996: 1942:, and in fact 1934: 1931: 1927: 1926: 1903: 1863: 1852:. LA Times.com 1835: 1811: 1810: 1806: 1805: 1804: 1803: 1802: 1801: 1800: 1781: 1780: 1779: 1778: 1761: 1760: 1759: 1758: 1734: 1733: 1732: 1731: 1725: 1724: 1620: 1618: 1615: 1607: 1606: 1605: 1604: 1603: 1602: 1601: 1564: 1563: 1553:RichardMills65 1546: 1528: 1518:Ego White Tray 1510: 1493: 1476: 1454: 1453: 1452: 1451: 1450: 1449: 1448: 1447: 1388: 1387: 1373:Sebastian Shaw 1339: 1330: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1303: 1301: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1282: 1281: 1280: 1248: 1225: 1224: 1223: 1180: 1179: 1178: 1177: 1176: 1175: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1152: 1131: 1130: 1129: 1128: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1081: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1061: 1046: 974: 915: 912: 911: 910: 880: 879: 808: 805: 782: 781:Ranger School? 779: 758: 755: 754: 753: 752: 751: 750: 749: 748: 747: 635: 632: 603: 600: 578: 577: 576: 575: 558: 557: 518: 515: 499: 498: 497: 476: 473: 471: 453: 448: 445: 420: 399: 396: 385:Restless coder 368: 367:Othello awards 365: 349: 346: 329: 326: 315:24.215.162.198 300: 299:Regarding IMDb 297: 296: 295: 259: 256: 233: 230: 212:71.194.163.223 204: 203:James Earl Ray 201: 190: 187: 176: 173: 162:James Earl Ray 143: 140:disambiguation 136: 123: 120: 112: 111: 97: 94: 71: 68: 65: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3413: 3400: 3396: 3392: 3388: 3383: 3382: 3381: 3378: 3374: 3370: 3366: 3365: 3364: 3363: 3359: 3355: 3351: 3347: 3339: 3337: 3336: 3333: 3329: 3325: 3317: 3315: 3314: 3310: 3306: 3300: 3293: 3291: 3289: 3285: 3281: 3280:50.196.253.49 3277: 3267: 3265: 3263: 3259: 3255: 3254:76.112.123.16 3251: 3240: 3238: 3237: 3233: 3229: 3224: 3220: 3215:Ruth Connolly 3214: 3212: 3211: 3208: 3203: 3195: 3192: 3188: 3187:George Abbott 3184: 3181: 3177: 3173: 3170: 3167: 3163: 3159: 3156: 3154: 3153:Indiscretions 3148: 3144: 3141: 3137: 3136:Madeline Kahn 3133: 3130: 3126: 3122: 3119: 3116: 3112: 3111:Irving Berlin 3108: 3107: 3106: 3105: 3101: 3099: 3095: 3091: 3087: 3080: 3076: 3074: 3073: 3069: 3065: 3057: 3055: 3054: 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