Knowledge (XXG)

Talk:Jeremy Corbyn/Archive 7

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5024:– and the discussion here shut off and hatted. Not only is it taking up far too much space on Corbyn's page but the issue has wider application too of course. The discussion here is, as ever, also going round in circles and generating fairly pointless rancour (I gave up well before some of my perfectly reasonable and practical observations started generating hilarious sarcastic gibes in response). I'd add FWIW that those participating who explicitly favour either constituent country or sovereign state on its own ought to realise that they are never going to get agreement for their preferred option: the "other" side will always have both the numbers and perfectly plausible arguments, based on precedent, guidance and the fact that the word country does indeed have different meanings, for which level of country should be used for UK bios. The debate here kicked off when UK was changed to England and then the country cleared out altogether. As I and others have consistently said, having both is the only realistic long-term option. It's a compromise in which both sides get their way, and which does not unnecessarily burden the infobox, while also being more informative overall. I still don't understand why such an obvious and simple solution is opposed with such vehemence and persistence. I get that some people would prefer the constituent country over the country-state, or vice-versa, but I don't get why they would be so adamant that the other has to be excised from the page. That's Knowledge (XXG) for you I guess. 1867:. Surely the intention behind the requirement to name the "country" is to specify the sovereign state, as would happen in 99% of WP bios. The fact that due to a quirk of nomenclature and history the UK, possibly uniquely, is a country that consists of other countries is not a reason to depart from consistent application of that basic principle and offer a special and potentially misleading get-out for UK-born people (all of them, not just Corbyn). England, or Wales or whatever, can be additional to it if necessary but should not replace UK. As others have noted, WP is an international resource. As for what's more precise or informative, surely "England, UK" is better on both counts than simply "England", and hardly that much more cumbersome. It seems a little odd that one or two people are being quite so insistent that these pages simply cannot have those extra two letters. 733:(Template: Infobox person) unambiguously states 'place of birth' should be shown as “city, administrative region, country”. England is not a country (as in sovereign state). Let's remember that English nationalism and anti-UK sentiment is causing this dispute. As I stated in last RfC: "I strongly favour having the country (ie sovereign state) listed in the infobox. It is standard. The UK is a unitary state. Can you imagine US bios saying Born: "Houston, Texas"? Nationalism is a primary motivating factor here. Individuals born in the Soviet Union, almost without exception, list the country as Soviet Union". If England is a country please tell me why it's not listed on the 487:- You brits are such self-important pansies. You think the distinction between Wales/Scotland/England/N. Ireland actually matters, but guess what...... nobody but you actually cares. Hearing you folks whine about how there's a difference between a Scot and an English is tiresome to folks from countries less obsessed by cultural irrelevancies. The distinction you keep drawing between "England" and the "United Kingdom" only serves to confuse readers from countries that actually matter (like the US). Maybe if you quit the bickering and just called the whole thing the UK other countries would look to you for more than just royal baby news and Downton Abbey. 4155:
places in passing are unlikely to be consistent within themselves anyway - it depends entirely on context. The point is to be try to be consistent in principle as a matter of presentation on WP. The suggestion to include "country" in the infobox guidance is clearly, surely, intended to refer to the sovereign state. I can understand the argument that it might be unnecessary, but that seems trumped by that fact that it will add information and clarity for some readers, for the sake of two letters. And it's only controversial for those who choose to make it so.
3154:'UK'). The remainder all give just the country (equivalent to 'England'). I haven't been picky here; the only people I skipped including in this list are the ones whose place of birth is given as a political entity of some kind (country, sovereign state, overseas territory, dependency, protectorate...) that existed at the time of their birth but no longer exists (I thought that would be a needless complication). So why is 'England' so controversial when it's the almost-universal practice for other, similar countries? 4005:). I have looked at how reliable sources describe Chippenham. Broadsheet newspapers the world over refer to it as a location in England. Even those newspapers in North America, whom editors here seem to think would be easily confused by excluding the sovereign state, locate Chippenham in England. Of all the sources, I saw only one (a single blog from China, which is not a RS anyway) that said 'Chippenham, UK'. Some sources (particularly in NZ, India and Africa) say 'Chippenham, Wiltshire'. Here are some examples: 3306:
birthplace, though. Are you really suggesting that, "Abu Dhabi, UK" is the right birthplace for them? Just saying, "It should always be the sovereign state," as per many above, just doesn't work - that would make anyone born in Australia before independence actually born in the UK. And then there's the argument to be had over when Australia became independent enough to not list the UK in birthplaces - is it 1901, 1926, 1930, 1931, 1939, 1942, 1948, 1968, 1973, 1975 or 1986?
1506:– since I see simply "UK" is interestingly not an option this time around. The sovereign state is included in instances involving every other country on the planet, so why the UK should be any different is an eyebrow raiser. England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are not independent countries and any suggestion or implication to the contrary should be avoided at all times. The composition and political status of the UK is confusing enough for non-Brits as it is. 5125:
Increasing clarity by adding "UK" or "US" or "Canada", as appropriate, to infoboxes seems to come at a very low cost. But isn't it contextual? Since infoboxes are so compressed, maybe this shouldn't be in the infobox, but in the body. And most of us seem to think it superfluous in citations (e.g. "New York: Foobarbaz Press", not "New York City, New York, US: Foobarbaz Press"). I would think that this is a better question to settle at Village Pump, or with a
686:, not just British. Therefore, seeing Denmark, Canada, New Zealand, Russia, France etc, in other bios, but not seeing the United Kingdom in British bios, can be confusing & misleading. In this article (for examlpe), we wouldn't want readers mistaking 'England' for the 'United Kingdom', which many Americans tend to do ;) Also, we don't want less informed readers thinking that England, Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland are sovereign states. 4253:
is an issue for some people, using both seems such an obvious and easy option, with the only real downside being that, to say it again, it adds all of two letters to an infobox. If that helps some 13 year olds in the US or the DRC, and avoids people fighting over whether it should be "England" or "United Kingdom", I can't what the problem is or why it takes thousands of words of debate (OK, I'll stop adding to that now ..)
1159:
constituent country and a sovereign country. When you compare countries in the world, constituent countries are comparable between each others because they are part of a sovereign countries, but if you want to compare a constituent country with a sovereign country, they don't have the same attributes. At a global scale, the sovereign countries are the ones which are at the same level of representation and hierarchy.
2820:- We're never going to come to any agreement with "England vs UK" and will just keep going around in circles so to settle it once & for all (hopefully!) I think we should reach a compromise and use both ie "England, UK", As I found out in the previous RFC many articles define "administrative region, country" in different ways so IMHO we should just reach a compromise and go with the next best thing. – 4849:“Some of those opposing the compromise & still pushing for just 'England', have used the argument that England is a country or nation & therefore should be treated like Canada, Jamaica, Australia, etc etc.” you say. I haven't seen anyone saying 'England should be treated like Canada', or any other countries. I think you just made that up. Please provide the diffs to show you aren't lying. 425:(@Nomoskedasticity) Yet those who were quite happy to allow a disgraceful close were happy to have their preferred description in the Infobox. No-one has compelled you to participate in this. If you thought this RfC stupid, why are you here? By the way, are you displaying your childishness with your use of my username, or your incompetence? 68:) has been closed as 'no consensus'. A proposal made during the RfC should now be considered. Please note below how the location of Jeremy Corbyn's place of birth should best be described. The outcome of this RfC will be determined by weighing the merits of the arguments and assessing if they are consistent with Knowledge (XXG) policies. 624:- Racism? Last time I checked the British isles were predominately occupied by a single race of peoples. Regardless, I seem to have brushed against some folks wearing their cultural sensitivities on their sleeves. Sorta goes to show my point. This clearly means more to you guys than it does to anyone else. Get over it. 3395:: 'The Netherlands ... is the main "constituent country" ... of the Kingdom of the Netherlands'). It even has a note at the top explaining the difference. And all of the example articles for politicians I linked to above have infoboxes that wikilink to the constituent country, not to the sovereign state. 3953:
We obviously wouldn't identify Francois Mitterand as being from "Jamac, Charente" because very few people would know Charente is part of France. While it seems find to include administrative sub-divisions like "England" the state should be included. The template obviously didn't anticipate this level
3551:
about the use of "sovereign state" for place of birth in info boxes? We'd have to change all the boxes for Netherlands-born people too, would we? Or are you now saying that what is "commonly used" to describe a country is perfectly ok? You know, if we have the opportunity to help any 13-year olds who
3215:
treats them). Here we're talking about geographically contiguous home nations in a unitary state. The UAE is perhaps a closer comparison, and according to the examples above, bios do tend to append it to the constituent emirate. Adding two or three letters for clarity doesn't seem to me to be loading
1661:
Well you know, I realise it's an investment of a whole left mouse button press. One might hope that inquisitiveness might prompt a reader there. I think we kind of assume readers will click on links, don't we? I see a difference between "helping readers learn" and constantly cluttering infoboxes with
4252:
it's meant to refer to the sovereign state of course, or that it has to, but common usage in this sort of context and the fact that it will in 99% of "overseas" biographies, since most places don't have this naming quirk, surely points in that direction. And if which we should use in UK cases really
4154:
Saying "follow the sources" may superfically meet WP standards, but of course it's a fundamentally flawed approach in this sort of case. Firstly, WP infoboxes are not about narrative text in media articles. Secondly, different sources have different standards and styles, and media sources mentioning
3506:
Are editors suggesting that the comparison between England and, say, Aruba, has to take geographical proximity or indeed cultural similarity into account? I thought the comparison was to be on a purely constitutional basis, i.e. that England is a constituent country of a sovereign state. Otherwise,
1541:
Well, (I thought obviously) instances of other infoboxes with country names in them. I did say "every other country", not "every other infobox". And yes, I am saying that non-Brits can be confused by the political status of the UK and its constituent countries. I have personally had to explain it to
4625:
Saying that reliable sources define the location of Chippenham as England is neither here nor there. England is in the UK, so all those sources also confirm that Chippenham is in the UK. Reliable sources are no use in determining what is effectively a style issue. That isn't what WP:V and WP:RS are
2961:
That naming convention is referring to disambiguating between similarly named settlements within the UK, and doesn't seem relevant to this issue, which is connected to identity and nationality. I recommend anyone who believes that removing the constituent country to be culturally acceptable in such
1919:
Absolutely, although if we can expend this many words over the inclusion of two letters on one person's page, I dread to think what would happen in any search for a site-wide agreement. Especially given both legitimate problems re Northern Ireland and the petty nationalism displayed by many editors
1361:
I already answered in the previous RfC that "The first (and all the followings) example of Template:Infobox_officeholder/example is Lamar, Missouri, U.S.. We have even an example of London, United Kingdom for the death place." I also wrote you that "In my opinion, examples should also be considered
386:
as the obvious compromise that will enable us to overcome this stupid dispute. (Those who don't want to include "UK" would apparently prefer to perpetuate it...) The UK is a country and so including it as his birthplace is very much in accordance with our infobox policy. Interestingly, the UK is
4383:
So why does the consensus says "Disambiguation should not normally be to England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland". Because this is the WP policy on this contentious question (I this the length of this RfC proves it IS contentious). Beyond news articles, look at common uses on sites sites like
3258:
Well that's perhaps an issue for wider debate, but as far as I am concerned, the reference to the country of birth must mean the sovereign state, per common usage and as it will in 99% of WP bios; plus otherwise it can mean anything. As for the observation about "half the content", it was a direct
3153:
Those are all political figures born in countries that are not sovereign states and the large majority give their birthplace in the infobox as the country, not the sovereign state. Of these 13 examples, one gives country and sovereign state (like 'England, UK') and one gives sovereign state (like
1586:
I realise that sovereign states can't be constituent countries in other sovereign states. I'm suggesting that if a reader doesn't know that England is part the UK, they can use an encyclopedia to find out. It might involve clicking on a blue link. Once they have learned that, they won't have to be
3210:
But if we're talking about consistency, it should be to a principle, not to other pages that may also be out of line, as it were. Also I'm not sure the Netherlands example, which has been cited previously, is analogous. Yes they are sometimes described as "constituent countries" which seem to be
1571:
OK. When someone writes an article and uses an infobox involving birth places / death places, he uses the name of the sovereign state. France. Belgium. Bolivia. Malaysia. Etc. There's no higher level to go to and it's clear and unambiguous for all readers. You appear to be saying we should avoid
1158:
I don't think you understood the question. Of course England and UK are countries. The question is which one is the most appropriate to include. You don't want to answer the question why England. I could answer : "UK is a country. Simple as.": we wouldn't go further. The difference is between a
3328:
I don't see any issue with the list as Cook Islands, Aruba, Curaçao, Sint Maarten, Greenland, Faroe Islands are oversea territories; Ajman is a city and not a state in that context; UAE, Netherlands and Denmark are sovereign countries. England is neither an oversea territory, nor a city, nor a
3305:
I'm not sure the UAE discussion leads where you want; the ones I skipped because the entity they were born in doesn't exist any more were all from the UAE and were all, technically, born in the United Kingdom, since that was the sovereign state there at the time. None of them list UK as their
3031:
I don't buy the 'making it easier for anyone who doesn't know that England is in the UK' line. That's why we have hyperlinks. We don't explain every aspect of everything in every article - if we did, we'd end up with the whole encyclopedia in every article. Because this is so controversial,
2981:
But that's precisely the problem here: this isn't – or shouldn't be – about "identity". It's about noting a place of birth informatively and, ideally, according to consistent principles whether we're talking about Corbyn or anyone else. Also the proposal here is not to exclude the constituent
5124:
really know that Montana is part of the US and Manitoba is in Canada? That New Brunswick isn't part of New England? That New England and British Columbia aren't part of the UK? That Northern Ireland is? That Wales is a country-but-not-nation of the UK but that Cornwall is not? And so on.
2076:
I find the level of debate over this on the Jeremy Corbyn page unfathomable considering the same potential issue applies to over 600 other current politicians in Westminster alone, and if it matters this much it should be consistent (or at least a set of sensible guidelines, such preferring
2077:"Scotland, UK" for any Scot serving in the UK Parliament except nationalists who would identify as being born in "Scotland" alone). Meanwhile, nobody gets upset over how to describe Tim Farron (born Preston, England, UK) who was appointed leader of a UK party around the same time 3354:- Yes. I think folks are being a little naive when they say "Aruba is to the Kingdom of the Netherlands what Scotland is to the UK". There's a pretty distinct geographical and cultural difference between Aruba and the rest of the Netherlands. That's just not so for Scotland. 2845:- You mean, not everyone loves the circles? (sarc mark) But seriously, my suspicion is that Brits will heavily favor the "Country & Soveriegn" state method, while non-Brits will favor the other option. Which is exactly why we should be trying to pay more attention to 5133:
or some other venue, and not limited to UK-related determination. I agree that fighting it out article-by-article isn't very useful. We should just have a standard approach to being helpful-but-not-browbeating with regard to complex geographical locations.
3605:
re "Are you suggesting that Scotland and England have a homogeneous culture?" - No two places are totally culturally homogeneous. Texas has a culture distinct from the rest of the US, yet folks born in Dallas are still usually described as American before
2309:
claims "In casual usage, the terms "country", "nation", and "state" are often used as if they were synonymous; but in stricter usage they can be distinguished" there has been a 'citation needed' tag at the end of that claim since January 2011!
2427:
But specifically with regard to Corbyn, he doesn’t lead the Labour Party in Scotland, or Wales, and the Labour Party doesn’t even exist in Northern Ireland – so probably 'England' is the most appropriate country to consider here? BTW, I see
1572:
using "UK" for no other reason than we have a potentially confusing, lower-level alternative and we should use that, regardless of who may or may not understand the situation. Or do you actually believe that every reader will understand?
1404:
Indeed but it is "an explanatory supplement to the Neutral point of view (NPOV) policy" which is a policy. So "they should seek to improve articles by removing any examples of cultural bias that they encounter". Let's follow this advice.
228:. The idea that the UK should be included "because he is the leader of a UK party" is irrelevant and absurd. We should apply the usual and long-established guidance, to include only England (or Scotland / Wales / NI) in these cases. 1992:
What else do Americans call themselves, besides Americans. What else do Canadians call themselves, besides Canadian. What else do Russian call themselves besides Russian, etc etc. Again, we're just going in circles here, you & I.
1304:
And the UK is a country. You know, a country in the sense that every other country in the world is a country – not a constituent country within another state. The point made above about a non-British-centric focus is extremely valid.
2759:- We're asking whether this is a discussion that should be had more broadly. In other words, for the UK peoples in general should there be a general rule. Where exactly Corbyn leads the labor party isn't all that relevant. 2324:
It should be clear cut. Neither England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland are independent states. Anyways, I've been around the old 'pedia for over 10-yrs & believe me, I know how strong the resistance is to using
1340:
See the list below - for every other sovereign state made up of constituent countries, we list the constituent country, not the sovereign state. So, for every country in the world, we list country, not sovereign state.
4909:
might put an end to an insistence that UK is always added after any of its individual constituent counties. Or there might be some kind of compromise worked out that allowed long discussions like this one to be avoided.
542:
On a serious note though, these distinctions might be relevant within the UK, but they're less relevant and potentially confusing outside the UK. WP is written for the world. Not for the UK. Not even for the US.....
4285:
common usage. As for helping people in the US or China understand locations, clearly, newspaper editors in those countries don't believe that saying 'Chippenham, England' will cause such problems to their readers.
4815:
members? The CoN seems to have the United Kingdom as 'one' member & not E/W/S or E/W/S/NI as seperate members. The CoN doesn't appear to have any problems distinguishing between the meaning of country/nation.
1920:
on UK issues. Previous debates about consistency over what is meant by "nationality" in a UK context and how to present the information have never gone well, for example; nor have they ever reached a conclusion.
539:- Awwwww..... I'm sorry guys. I didn't mean to hurt feelings. It's not just the royal babies and Downton Abbey that we like. There's also Braveheart. Dr. Who is a little quirky but cool (and not too feudalistic). 2966:
and advise the assembled native patrons of said establishment that they weren't born in Wales but in the United Kingdom. I'd be happy to observe the proceedings, and would promise to call the ambulance quickly.
755:
Because there are several different definitions of "country" - of which "sovereign state" is just one. It may be the one which you personally prefer to use, but please don't purport to speak for other people.
4800:
Some of those opposing the compromise & still pushing for just 'England', have used the argument that England is a country or nation & therefore should be treated like Canada, Jamaica, Australia, etc
4885:
Some here, have suggested that this dispute should be expanded to Template infobox, with an Rfc begun there. I happen to agree with them, as this type of dispute is going to occur again & again in other
4368:
Look again at that guideline, which says, "By following modern English usage, we also avoid arguments about what a place ought to be called, instead asking the less contentious question, what it is called."
1556:
Sorry. I'm still not sure what you mean. Instances of what? Instances of not using a constituent country because there isn't one? Yes, I'd agree there are lots of those. There's no choice about what to use.
3698:" - No. Of course he isn't. But that's not the point. The point is, if Texas, like Scotland, has cultural identity and nationalist sentiment (which it does), why is someone born in Dallas born in "America" 1676:
Yes, it is a subjective thing. I don't think it's redundant at all. Certainly no more redundant than the constituent country. But that's why I'm advocating the presence of both. You know, as a compromise.
5099: 653:
because the sovereign state of birth should be indicated and England is not a sovereign state. England can be mentioned as it seems to matter for some readers and in order to reach a compromise.
2646:
Maybe the solution is indeed to replace in the template "city, administrative region, country" by "city, administrative region, sovereign state". It would avoid discussion on what is a country.
4281:
You cite common usage as if only your (uncited) opinion of that usage is noteworthy. Common usage clearly shows from those cited examples above, that defining Chippenham's location as England
2043:
Yes, those folks had a choice, for a second time, over whether to become a different national sovereignty, and voted against it. But they were never going to become a new constituent country.
3216:
too much detail in. And of course there's the counter reductio ad absurdum argument that if we say "oh, everyone knows that", we needn't bother including half the content on many WP pages.
578:- I like to think I was being necessarily rude. There was a serious point. The distinction between the UK and England might not be particularly useful for a general/international audience. 115:- Interesting lack of self-awareness in the absurdity of what you are saying. You are saying, correctly, that the country should be included. Per the International Standards Organisation's 1587:
constantly reminded, in a somewhat irritatingly redundant way, that England is always followed by "UK". There are no other countries called England. Quite an easy concept to learn really.
2242:
Just to be clear, the debate is only on British bios? Because for other countries there is no debate, we use the sovereign country so I don't see the point of making an exception for UK.
945:
To all those supporting England: It seems you set at the same importance constituents and sovereign countries. Could you explain why? It would help to understand why you support England.
1013:
If you decline to consider that sovereign countries like UK exist (that's what I understand when you write "I get as far as England, and just stop there", it will be difficult to have a
3287:
I acknowledge that your "counter reductio ad absurdum argument" comment was a response. Yes, wider debate, not just focusing on "13 year olds in the US or the DRC", is probably wise.
1727:
Two examples? That should cover everything, then? And are those examples, exemplars or directions? Do they tell us that, while US States are required, English counties are forbidden?
1601:
Knowledge (XXG) is an on-line encyclopedia. Why not make it easier for non-British readers to find out here, that England is a part of the United Kingdom. Why make them check a book?
1136:- The difference between a "sovereign state" and a "country" is one that's going to be different for Brits than for everyone else. You're looking at it from a Brit-centric viewpoint. 4313:
Nobody has yet shown me a source, that proves that England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland are sovereign states (i.e independent). It's too bad that attempts are being made to
1542:
non-Brits more times than I care to remember. People overseas aren't born with this knowledge. (p.s. No I'm not, because mass changes of that type are not allowed per consensus)
1662:
redundant information. I guess that's a subjective thing. I don't even know how one would find suitable novices to use as subjects in an experimentally robust testing paradigm.
90:(Template: Infobox person) shows 'place of birth' should be shown as “city, administrative region, country” i.e. Chippenham, Wiltshire, England. Anything further is redundant. 3259:
response to the point about having to put the entire encyclopedia in every article, and you surely noted I have already acknowledged that it, too, was an exaggerated point?
2225:
I doubt we'll get anywhere, but the conversation is probably worth having. If for nothing else than to highlight how silly some of the sentiments surrounding the issue are.
1695:, where a more useful and wide-ranging consensus might be achieved. Is there something special about Corbyn, or is it just because he's most recently arrived as a leader? 4994:. I was suggesting it as a possibility for all bio articles not just this one. But perhaps we shouldn't bother and just do it over and over again for all UK politicians. 4347: 3571: 2940: 2932: 4230:
is not something you can choose to ignore if you don't like what they say, it is a fundamental principle for all Knowledge (XXG) articles, and that includes anywhere in
931:
as a descriptive, would help non-British readers. Anyways, I'll leave that up to others. I got enough bangs over the head in the past, when I strongly pushed for this.
2699:
Indeed it would solve the problem. But, I know from experience, that there would be many editors who'd dig in their heals & oppose such a change to that template.
557:
Can't speak for anyone else, but my feelings weren't hurt. If you think this doesn't matter and you don't care, why are you here? Is it just to be unnecessarily rude?
2877:, and accepting that, for many people living within the United Kingdom, the constituent countries are more defining in terms of identity than the sovereign state. 144:, would you show a little humility? This is an encyclopaedia. You should expect to discover information about which you were not previously aware. You're welcome. 4890:
bio infoboxes. Getting 'country' changed to 'sovereign state' at that Template, would put an end to opposition against adding the United Kingdom/UK to infoboxes.
4090: 1709:
Because the examples given are quite clear : first example in the template is "Lamar, Missouri, U.S." and the example of death place is "London, United Kingdom".
4066: 2164: 4034: 446:
depends on your definition of country I guess, but the state (i.e. the UK) seems to be what was intended to be meant by “city, administrative region, country”
4579:
defining the location of Chippenham as England, shown above, were written for non-British readers. I am sure others did, without it having to be pointed out.
3920:: I think this is a more complex question than what to do at this article, with this particular infobox, or with regard to just the UK. More below in the 2358:- The strong resistance probably reflects Brit's weird sense of self-identity. Which, again, is why the way we're currently doing this is a violation of 4074: 3211:
technically part of the kingdom, but they're more akin to British Overseas Territories, geographically and politically etc (that's how for example the
2530:, I meant "premiership". Apologies for making that spelling mistake which has thrown you so badly. I was referring to your statement "he'll become the 1643:
Exactly. We are not in the business of making readers look something up when it can be so easily explained. "England" shouldn't be linked anyway, per
4121: 3745:
has multiple meanings. Therefore, just because E/W/S/NI are called countries? that doesn't mean they belong on equal footing with sovereign states.
2291:
Not the same type of country though, as the UK, Russia, Canada, Brazil, Japan, etc etc. Something that Knowledge (XXG) should be making more clear.
3556:, we should take it, shouldn’t we? (... although it would be better if it could invent a two-letter name for itself to fit better in our infobox). 4742:
as a reason to push England onto the same stage as Japan, Norway, Italy, Russia etc etc? Then have the Template Rfc. Afterall, there can only be
1691:
I think you make some valid points. And I respect you for seeking a compromise. I'm now wondering why we're having this debate here and not at
819:
I think we 'might' be getting to the 'core' of the problems here. IMHO, England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland should be described as
2846: 2359: 1387: 1256: 1151: 5280:
Responding to RFC 12th March. Follows wiki set structure. US bios don't list state even though many states are far larger than whole of UK.
4944:
You want a compromise? What the fuck?? If you want a compromise, then compromise -- don't resist it by perpetuating this sort of dispute.
3492:
Are you suggesting that Scotland and England have a homogeneous culture? I'm not sure I'd say so in downtown Glasgow on a Saturday night.
2531: 2512:
is. But, I do know that you aren't gonna convince me to support your preference & I'm not gonna convince you to support my preference.
2459: 4001:
No, it isn't. Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy (per
1948:
A site-wide agreement attempt? It's likely that nobody knows better then I, what kinda resistance there is out there, to using the terms
140:
A lack of self-awareness? Perhaps. Though what that has to do with you is another question. So, if the ISO defined England as a country,
4502:
Very sad, our non-British readers are being deprived of such valuable info, due to such stiff resistance by some to add 'two' letters -
3059: 1978:? In the same way that they can't show any preference in using the name of their constituent county instead of their sovereign country? 4106: 3795:
has multiple meanings. England is within a sovereign state called the United Kingdom & there's no sources that can repudiate that.
871:... or a competent dictionary if you prefer. The idea that England is not a country, is, frankly, too silly to be taken seriously. 5237: 4761: 4626:
all about. Perhaps those in favour of excising "UK" from infoboxes should try an RfC aimed at banning its use. See how far that gets.
4332:
And nobody has yet shown me a Knowledge (XXG) guideline that requires "sovereign state" to be used for place of birth in the infobox.
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field in the bio box for people born in the modern day UK read UK or the name of the subnational entity in which they were born?".
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OK Thanks I understand that you live and fight for England but WP is a global encyclopedia. Any other more neutral feedback?
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Folks born in Dallas are described as American before Texan because Texan is not a nationality, and Texas is not a country.
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should apply: "Disambiguation should not normally be to England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland". The correct title is
1536:(p.s. you're going to be very busy adding "UK" to all examples of those, as places of birth, in all relevant BLP articles?) 4760:
If one tenth of the effort spent "discussing" here were spent clarifying matters at a template RfC, this kind of argument
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where you will find that official names used are Denmark and Netherlands for those two kingdoms, same when you click on
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Netherlands and Denmark are not "sovereign countries", as you'd know if you'd bothered to look up the linked articles.
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Provided they "dug in their heals & opposed" for good reasons, that would be ok, wouldn't it? But I think you mean
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If only you'd told us at the start. Looks like it's time for RfC No 3. Except it shouldn't even be placed here at all?
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is not a 'policy cite' ("This essay is not a Knowledge (XXG) policy or guideline"). Please don't portray it as such.
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I don't see it as a choice. I get as far as England, and just stop there. That's not to say I can't also blame the
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it is evident some people are confused about the difference between a sovereign country and a constituent country.
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I don't think anyone questions its reliability - but it uses one particular definition. Other definitions exist.
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British bio articles infoboxes, to make things clearer for non-British readers. Unfortunately, its' not up to me.
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Sorry, didn't realise you had given up. Can editors at least agree the best venue for a higher level discussion?
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These are the official examples of the templates yes; and certainly England, U.K. is aligned with Missouri, U.S.
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Personally, I don't think it's necessary to have such an Rfc. But, since there's some editors determined to use
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Just clarifying to JezGrov, that the UK Labour Party covers all of the United Kingdom, not just England. As for
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I reckon these discussions would be quite nasty, if they involved Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland :(
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And (strangely enough) US editors are unable to exhibit any comparable resistance to using terms other than
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How about making it as easy as possible for readers, to learn that England is a part of the United Kingdom?
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What "instances" are these? You're saying non-Brits will be confused by the use of the word "England", yes?
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Even if it were relevant (which it isn't) whether England is or is not a sovereign state, it is a country
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the United Kingdom/UK from our non-British readers, who make up a majority of Knowledge (XXG) readers :(
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Where is this "principle" established? Your "half the content on many WP pages" is a complete straw man.
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doesn't ask for "sovereign state", does it? And you don't need UK, because there are no other Englands.
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So there is a disconnect/ inconsistency with how Knowledge (XXG) treats the status of UK with that of
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There aren't any other Wiltshires either but I guess you're not suggesting leaving it at "Wiltshire".
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This should be dealt with in a more general forum – either at the infobox template or on a page like
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the same as England, so there's no redundancy; Dairarego's contribution is mistaken in this respect.
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Yes, that sounds extremely reasonable. One of the most sensible comments in this entire discussion.
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has sensibly suggested, this issue should be resolved at template level. Perhaps a friendly passing
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may I ask what other definitions exist? Your one? Is that on the same reliability level of the ISO?
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Chippenham in Wiltshire is certainly much bigger, and better known than the one in Cambridgeshire.
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If you're born in England, you're also born in UK. If you're born in Aruba, you're not born in the
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I realise this list is not exhaustive; if anyone else wants to pursue this survey further, I found
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will hat this discussion and we can then open an RfC at the Template Talk page and go from there.
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there's not going to be consistency here. But a quick scout around for similar situations shows:
2914: 2874: 4627: 4220: 4188: 3846: 3814: 3436: 3380: 3143: 3129: 3119: 2437: 2315: 2282: 2126:- That's true. This probably isn't the right place to be asking some of these broader questions. 2082: 1678: 1648: 1573: 1543: 1507: 1306: 1210: 912: 876: 789: 761: 470: 360: 328: 296: 233: 185: 65: 17: 3841:
Do you deny that a "constituent country" is a form of country? The term indicates that it is.
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was born in Dubai, UAE (and looks like the bad guy out of some children's film in that photo...)
1644: 3776:. That's why we should show Jeremy Corbyn's place of birth as 'Chippenham, Wiltshire, England' 1362:
as best practices if they are not challenged for good reasons". And you didn't answer to that.
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Not sure I even have a strong opinion about this. It comes up a lot for US states, too. Does
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I'm glad we can agree that Corbyn's hypothetical future as UK Prime Minister is an irrelevant
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I'm not disappointed. I think it's clear now we have no factual opposition for "England, UK".
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would need an update, as it starts "England is a country that is part of the United Kingdom"?
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You're not convincing me of anything. Concentrate on convincing the others who've opted for
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So you say ... time and time and time again. Yet even you might have noticed that all those
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Generally I think the International Standards Organisation is pretty reliable to be honest.
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I never said it wasn't a country. I said it was a constituent country. Did you miss that?
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Not at all. I am saying that verifiable reliable sources (per the Knowledge (XXG) policy
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where do you draw the line - language? ethnic composition? religion? currency etc., etc.
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is internationally renowned, but we still use British English within his article, as per
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Leader of the opposition. If his party wins the next general election? he'll become the
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is exactly the point. This stuff shouldn't be written in a way only relevant to Brits.
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have escaped from North Korea, to learn about the constitutional arrangements in the
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PS- You should concentrate on convincing the others of your arguments. You & I
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in her infobox, too. My primary goal is to clarify things for non-British readers.
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apply here? You suggested it was usual and long-established. That's absolute crap.
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And to answer your question more directly. Yes. I think Scotland and England are
283:. We have many inconsistencies and imperfect articles, but the general guidance 5209: 4225:
Saying "follow the sources" doesn't “superfically meet WP standards <sic: -->
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the sovereign state. As well, Corbyn is the Leader of the Opposition in the
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In that case, I suggest you will have no problem in getting it clarified at
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My past experience on this topic, tells me that some who oppose adding the
4183:(e/c) "...clearly, surely, intended to refer to the sovereign state..." 3809:
Consider the term "constituent country". The clue is in the second word.
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England IS a country - as noted in the first sentence of its WP article...
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are constituent countries within those kingdoms (eg the first sentence of
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It seems that the discussion is wholly misplaced here, when it belongs to
510:". It's a shame "royal baby news and Downton Abbey" are so archetypically 3891: 2534:." You think place of birth should be decided by possible future career? 2486:? Do we look to an opinion poll to gauge how likely is that premiershio? 465:"I guess"... "seems to be"... Well, that's definitive enough, then. 4906: 4384:
trip advisor sites or rental house companies, they use Chippenham, UK.
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We're already departing from the template advice by using Wiltshire?
180:- because that's not what the template guidance says at the moment. 4488:
define the location of Chippenham as England, showing common usage.
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Knowledge (XXG):Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#United_Kingdom
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where Wilthshire is the ceremonial county in case of England as per
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Knowledge (XXG):Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#United_Kingdom
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I wouldn't object, if this infobox discussion was expanded to cover
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Parliament (House of Commons). We must respect that our readers are
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Sorry to prolong the pain here. But where are you going with this
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Knowledge (XXG):Talk page guidelines#Behavior that is unacceptable
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a interesting source of lively informed debate?" Has our friend
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I quite agree. But I thought somebody had proposed some kind of
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Template Infobox would be best. UKNATS, is a disaster zone ;)
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Knowledge (XXG):Neutral_point_of_view/FAQ#Anglo-American_focus
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Knowledge (XXG):Neutral_point_of_view/FAQ#Anglo-American_focus
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Anyone want to weigh-in on the best place to have the debate?
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Knowledge (XXG):Neutral_point_of_view/FAQ#Anglo-American_focus
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Knowledge (XXG):Neutral_point_of_view/FAQ#Anglo-American_focus
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Knowledge (XXG):Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#England
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Perhaps, but this personnality is internationally reknowned.
2409:- re "only on British bios" - Yes. Question is - "Should the 323:
Don't use one WP article as the basis for another article.
162:. I think that is the authoritative statement on the matter. 3867:
Consider the term "constituent country". The clue is in the
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Once again, I encourage you to look at the official UN list
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Though there is also a case for regarding this as a form of
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makes a valid point, but we're looking here at where he was
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You mean "all those supporting just England", don't you (?)
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Should be a lively debate, then, especially if you're from
34:
Should the Infobox show Jeremy Corbyn's place of birth as '
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I'm glad you agree that England is a constituent country.
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at countless other bio articles. But it seems you fear a
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results - change to sovereign state, or keep as country.
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a country? News to me. Do you have any sources for that?
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This article is about the constituent country within the
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Er, I can't vouch for what you see, but when I click on
1326:- I'm only jealous that we don't have any royal babies. 1255:- Ding, ding, ding! Wykx gets today's best policy cite. 66:
RfC: for place of birth in the infobox -- England or UK?
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I apologize for that statement, consider it retracted.
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Oh yes, so it is. Did I mention a blue link somewhere?
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situations, to go into a public bar in somewhere like
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calls for a country. England is a country. Simple as.
735:
International Standards Organisation country code list
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Knowledge (XXG):Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)
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British bio infoboxes? then I'll go along with it :)
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But not-aligned with geographical name WP policy...
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England is relevant the world over, or so I'm told.
4831:The infobox template advice says nothing about the 2793:One of your best, I fear. Although don't confuse a 1773:Come on, there are two Chippenham in England, UK. 907:a country? Thank you for... umm... clarifying. 5173:and look... I didn't even say "what the fuck"... 1071:Sorry to disappoint you. And I'd certainly never 3918:"England, UK" somewhere, not necessarily infobox 3044:was born in Ajman, not the United Arab Emirates. 2982:country, but simply about adding "UK" after it. 158:The ISO does not define England as a country at 4200:(in Wiltshire) is the PRIMARY TOPIC, isn't it. 4067:"Chippenham, dans le sud-ouest de l'Angleterre" 4035:"Chippenham, dans le sud-ouest de l'Angleterre" 3525:, which refers to a constituent country of the 409:(How many countries called England are there?) 4990:Thanks for that overwhelmingly strong show of 3038:was born in the Cook Islands, not New Zealand. 3195:twice already. Thanks for pointing this out. 2207:If you all wish to expand this Rfc, to cover 8: 5208:- Let's move it template infobox! Let's go! 4964:The compromise offered here at this Rfc, is 3641:I would advise not saying that to a Texan. 2305:Hmmm, but it isn't that clear cut. Although 1035:I'm pretty sure they exist, But we'll cross 977:Yes, including you ;) Maybe you can answer? 337:Hold on - that's what you suggested though. 2446:However, the party that Corbyn leads, is a 2432:'s info box says she was born in Scotland. 5259:It gives a percise location in within the 3974:TBH folks, if it were up to me, we'd have 5305:? But it's just size that matters, yes? 3613:homogeneous than are Aruba and Holland. 3439:? This should be corrected in some way? 2163:Don't worry, they're all crying over in 867:Not my definition - I suggest you read 3774:template documentation for this Infobox 3128:was born in the Faroe Islands, not the 1956:in the infoboxes of (strangely enough) 1201:, wasn't he, but his article just says 1177:I don't think you understand my reply. 4698:, will fight to the dagger to prevent 3791:Again, you're refusing to accept that 3458: 2494:. He was quite small then, wasn't he? 1293:- don't bring your jealousy here! lol. 526:p.s. but thanks for the lower case b. 4226:”. It is Knowledge (XXG)'s standard. 351:No - I suggested that we look at the 7: 3823:...and the issue in the first word. 2532:Prime Minister of the United Kingdom 2460:Prime Minister of the United Kingdom 4706:, in that proposed Template Rfc :( 3060:Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands 119:the United Kingdom is the country. 5238:Template talk:Infobox officeholder 4905:Or getting "country" clarified as 3108:was born in Sint Maarten, not the 1693:Template talk:Infobox officeholder 508:Loving Hands Across the Pond Award 24: 4445:I might give that contribution a 4403:That's cos Corbyn ain't no white 4091:"Chippenham (sur de Inglaterra)" 2454:political party. Also, he's the 1289:Just because you don't have any 5106:not set everyone straight yet? 4803:I was just wondering, does the 4099:"Chippenham, southwest England" 4059:“Chippenham, southwest England” 4011:"Chippenham, southwest England" 3921: 3118:was born in Greenland, not the 4640:Such an Rfc wouldn't succeed. 4051:“Chippenham, southern England” 3692:Are you suggesting that Texas 3655:Are you suggesting that Texas 3142:were born in Denmark, not the 731:Documentation for this Infobox 88:Documentation for this Infobox 30:RfC: Place of birth in Infobox 1: 5233:01:31, 22 February 2016 (UTC) 5218:01:30, 22 February 2016 (UTC) 5170:20:57, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 5156:20:38, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 5135: 5116:13:59, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 5094:13:51, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 5062:10:51, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 5048:10:02, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 5004:22:16, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4978:22:13, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4954:22:11, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4934:22:10, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4920:22:06, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4900:21:59, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4873:05:29, 21 February 2016 (UTC) 4859:20:51, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 4845:17:23, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 4826:17:15, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 4778:22:02, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4756:21:48, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4734:21:30, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4716:21:16, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4690:21:13, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4650:21:10, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4636:20:59, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4607:14:36, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4589:14:32, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4568:14:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4540:14:42, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4516:14:26, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4498:14:23, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4459:00:13, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 4437:00:07, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 4417:00:02, 20 February 2016 (UTC) 4398:23:56, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4379:15:44, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4364:15:34, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4342:14:59, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4327:13:48, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4296:13:39, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 4277:12:28, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 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February 2016 (UTC) 3427:15:03, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3364:14:00, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3343:13:21, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3316:12:50, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3297:12:37, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3283:12:20, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3254:12:13, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3240:12:11, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3205:11:53, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3183:11:30, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3164:11:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3006:10:13, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 2977:10:05, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 2957:09:12, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 2927:09:00, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 2909:That doesn't alter my point. 2905:08:50, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 2887:07:47, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 2859:19:17, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2834:16:18, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2811:21:40, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2769:14:29, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2728:17:32, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2709:16:41, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2660:16:37, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2610:15:40, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2591:15:02, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 2544:14:58, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 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78:12:08, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 60:12:06, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 4021:(paywall for full article); 3529:commonly named Netherlands. 3048:Hamad bin Mohammed Al Sharqi 2937:Chippenham, Wilthshire, U.K. 1225:Template talk:Infobox person 1113:Template talk:Infobox person 253:- long established you say? 178:Template talk:Infobox person 3574:and it is aligned with it. 3042:Humaid bin Rashid Al Nuaimi 702:Though I prefer using just 5337: 5315:22:36, 13 March 2016 (UTC) 5290:22:28, 13 March 2016 (UTC) 4202:Chippenham, Cambridgeshire 3570:I say we have to stick to 3554:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3527:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3462:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3433:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3377:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3110:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3100:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3086:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3072:Kingdom of the Netherlands 3050:was born in Fujairah, UAE. 1073:live and fight for England 5273:23:33, 1 March 2016 (UTC) 5250:23:59, 1 March 2016 (UTC) 4423:UK 1 point - England 0 ? 4204:appears at the DAB page. 4075:"Chippenham, Inghilterra" 4023:The Sydney Morning Herald 3964:05:56, 1 March 2016 (UTC) 2464:First Minister of England 2074:Resolve at template level 997:past 500 years of history 3173:a useful starting place. 2025:but they are Canadians. 903:So... you agree that it 674:- as the United Kingdom 506:Winner of this month's " 4833:Commonwealth of Nations 4805:Commonwealth of Nations 3383:are sovereign states. 3136:Margrethe II of Denmark 3054:Saud bin Saqr al Qasimi 2099:British bio infoboxes. 2023:Quebec_referendum,_1995 1179:Template:Infobox person 5129:-advertised RfC at at 4702:from being changed to 4095:The New Zealand Herald 3413:, you don't go to UK. 2333:in (strangely enough) 1107:UK is unnecessary. As 599:Then you need to read 4558:agree on this topic. 4114:"Chippenham, England" 4107:"Chippenham, England" 4083:"CHIPPENHAM, England" 4043:"Chippenham, England” 4027:"Chippenham, England" 4019:"Chippenham, England" 2007:They have no choice. 1291:constituent countries 1227:calls for a country? 1150:Exactly aligned with 821:constituent countries 3886:Are nouns currently 3409:. When you click on 3191:Yes, I've mentioned 3140:Lars LĂžkke Rasmussen 2931:Indeed that's where 2508:I don't know what a 1954:United Kingdom or UK 1952:in the intros & 1423:Hear hear! Well put 1039:when we come to it. 4124:. Hope this helps. 4007:Buenos Aires Herald 3213:BBC Country Profile 3171:Constituent country 3126:Aksel V. Johannesen 3092:Lucille George-Wout 305:I'm sorry how does 4678:non-involved admin 4039:The Globe and Mail 3890:adjectives in the 3437:Kingdom of Denmark 3381:Kingdom of Denmark 3144:Kingdom of Denmark 3130:Kingdom of Denmark 3120:Kingdom of Denmark 2577:? she should have 2376:You mean "weird". 1223:Well no, because 448:Absolutelypuremilk 64:The previous RfC ( 18:Talk:Jeremy Corbyn 5174: 5098:Surely you mean " 5046: 4461: 4442: 4439: 4419: 4275: 4224: 4177: 3906: 3329:sovereign state. 3281: 3238: 3207: 3188: 3185: 3004: 2179: 1942: 1889: 1822:None of the above 1294: 1274:Ding, ding, ding! 1206: 1111:has pointed out, 527: 477: 5328: 5207: 5172: 5154: 5104:User:SMcCandlish 5043: 5037: 5030: 5025: 4946:Nomoskedasticity 4881:Infobox Template 4762:might be avoided 4577:reliable sources 4532: 4486:reliable sources 4444: 4441: 4429: 4422: 4402: 4390: 4356: 4272: 4266: 4259: 4254: 4218: 4174: 4168: 4161: 4156: 3944: 3885: 3829: 3689: 3679: 3676:Nomoskedasticity 3643:Nomoskedasticity 3604: 3580: 3535: 3491: 3419: 3374: 3353: 3335: 3278: 3272: 3265: 3260: 3235: 3229: 3222: 3217: 3190: 3187: 3168: 3001: 2995: 2988: 2983: 2969:PaleCloudedWhite 2949: 2919:PaleCloudedWhite 2897: 2879:PaleCloudedWhite 2844: 2831: 2826: 2758: 2652: 2408: 2357: 2248: 2192: 2162: 2125: 2031: 1939: 1933: 1926: 1921: 1886: 1880: 1873: 1868: 1835: 1829: 1779: 1747: 1715: 1494: 1429: 1411: 1386: 1368: 1325: 1303: 1288: 1254: 1197:was born in the 1193: 1165: 1135: 1095: 1059: 1023: 983: 951: 852: 844: 837:Agree with that 659: 623: 598: 577: 538: 505: 464: 393:Nomoskedasticity 259:Margaret Beckett 252: 139: 114: 50:, England, UK'? 5336: 5335: 5331: 5330: 5329: 5327: 5326: 5325: 5193: 5152: 5041: 5035: 5028: 4883: 4704:sovereign state 4672:Or perhaps, as 4528: 4425: 4386: 4352: 4270: 4264: 4257: 4172: 4166: 4159: 4118:Chicago Tribune 4111:Washington Post 3972: 3942: 3825: 3683: 3673: 3598: 3576: 3531: 3485: 3415: 3368: 3347: 3331: 3276: 3270: 3263: 3233: 3227: 3220: 2999: 2993: 2986: 2945: 2893: 2838: 2827: 2822: 2795:tangerine dream 2752: 2648: 2575:Nicola Sturgeon 2430:Nicola Sturgeon 2402: 2351: 2307:Sovereign state 2244: 2186: 2119: 2027: 1937: 1931: 1924: 1884: 1878: 1871: 1833: 1827: 1775: 1743: 1711: 1492: 1425: 1407: 1380: 1364: 1319: 1297: 1244: 1161: 1129: 1091: 1055: 1019: 979: 947: 846: 838: 655: 617: 592: 571: 532: 246: 133: 108: 42:, England' or ' 32: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5334: 5332: 5324: 5323: 5322: 5321: 5320: 5319: 5318: 5317: 5307:Martinevans123 5275: 5242:Martinevans123 5235: 5196:Martinevans123 5190: 5189: 5188: 5187: 5186: 5185: 5184: 5183: 5182: 5181: 5180: 5179: 5178: 5177: 5176: 5175: 5162:Martinevans123 5150: 5123: 5108:Martinevans123 5073: 5072: 5071: 5070: 5069: 5068: 5067: 5066: 5065: 5064: 5054:Martinevans123 5022:WP:UKNATIONALS 5011: 5010: 5009: 5008: 5007: 5006: 4996:Martinevans123 4983: 4982: 4981: 4980: 4959: 4958: 4957: 4956: 4939: 4938: 4937: 4936: 4912:Martinevans123 4882: 4879: 4878: 4877: 4876: 4875: 4847: 4837:Martinevans123 4797: 4796: 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RFC Member 5262: 5258: 5255: 5254: 5253: 5252: 5251: 5247: 5243: 5239: 5236: 5234: 5230: 5226: 5222: 5221: 5220: 5219: 5215: 5211: 5205: 5201: 5197: 5171: 5167: 5163: 5159: 5158: 5157: 5148: 5145: 5142: 5140: 5132: 5128: 5121: 5119: 5118: 5117: 5113: 5109: 5105: 5101: 5097: 5096: 5095: 5091: 5087: 5083: 5082: 5081: 5080: 5079: 5078: 5077: 5076: 5075: 5074: 5063: 5059: 5055: 5051: 5050: 5049: 5045: 5044: 5038: 5032: 5031: 5023: 5019: 5018: 5017: 5016: 5015: 5014: 5013: 5012: 5005: 5001: 4997: 4993: 4989: 4988: 4987: 4986: 4985: 4984: 4979: 4975: 4971: 4967: 4963: 4962: 4961: 4960: 4955: 4951: 4947: 4943: 4942: 4941: 4940: 4935: 4931: 4927: 4923: 4922: 4921: 4917: 4913: 4908: 4904: 4903: 4902: 4901: 4897: 4893: 4889: 4880: 4874: 4870: 4866: 4862: 4861: 4860: 4856: 4852: 4848: 4846: 4842: 4838: 4834: 4830: 4829: 4828: 4827: 4823: 4819: 4814: 4810: 4806: 4802: 4779: 4775: 4771: 4767: 4763: 4759: 4758: 4757: 4753: 4749: 4745: 4741: 4737: 4736: 4735: 4731: 4727: 4723: 4719: 4718: 4717: 4713: 4709: 4705: 4701: 4697: 4693: 4692: 4691: 4687: 4683: 4679: 4675: 4671: 4670: 4669: 4668: 4667: 4666: 4665: 4664: 4663: 4662: 4651: 4647: 4643: 4639: 4638: 4637: 4633: 4629: 4628:Bretonbanquet 4624: 4623: 4622: 4621: 4620: 4619: 4618: 4617: 4608: 4604: 4600: 4596: 4592: 4591: 4590: 4586: 4582: 4578: 4575: 4571: 4570: 4569: 4565: 4561: 4557: 4553: 4549: 4548: 4547: 4546: 4541: 4537: 4533: 4531: 4525: 4524: 4523: 4522: 4517: 4513: 4509: 4505: 4501: 4500: 4499: 4495: 4491: 4487: 4484: 4481: 4477: 4476: 4460: 4456: 4452: 4448: 4443: 4440: 4438: 4434: 4430: 4428: 4421: 4420: 4418: 4414: 4410: 4406: 4405:trailer trash 4401: 4400: 4399: 4395: 4391: 4389: 4382: 4381: 4380: 4376: 4372: 4367: 4366: 4365: 4361: 4357: 4355: 4349: 4345: 4344: 4343: 4339: 4335: 4331: 4330: 4329: 4328: 4324: 4320: 4316: 4297: 4293: 4289: 4284: 4280: 4279: 4278: 4274: 4273: 4267: 4261: 4260: 4251: 4248:Well I can't 4247: 4246: 4245: 4241: 4237: 4233: 4232:article space 4229: 4222: 4221:edit conflict 4217: 4215: 4211: 4207: 4203: 4199: 4196: 4194: 4190: 4186: 4182: 4181: 4180: 4176: 4175: 4169: 4163: 4162: 4153: 4152: 4151: 4147: 4143: 4139: 4138: 4137: 4136: 4135: 4131: 4127: 4123: 4119: 4115: 4112: 4108: 4104: 4100: 4096: 4092: 4088: 4084: 4081:, Singapore: 4080: 4076: 4072: 4071:la Repubblica 4068: 4064: 4060: 4056: 4052: 4048: 4044: 4040: 4036: 4032: 4028: 4024: 4020: 4016: 4012: 4008: 4004: 4000: 3999: 3998: 3997: 3993: 3989: 3985: 3981: 3977: 3969: 3965: 3961: 3957: 3952: 3949: 3947: 3938: 3935: 3932: 3930: 3923: 3919: 3916: 3915: 3905: 3901: 3897: 3893: 3889: 3884: 3883: 3882: 3878: 3874: 3870: 3866: 3865: 3864: 3863: 3862: 3861: 3852: 3848: 3844: 3840: 3839: 3838: 3834: 3830: 3828: 3822: 3821: 3820: 3816: 3812: 3808: 3807: 3806: 3802: 3798: 3794: 3790: 3789: 3788: 3787: 3783: 3779: 3775: 3771: 3756: 3752: 3748: 3744: 3741: 3740: 3739: 3738: 3737: 3736: 3735: 3734: 3733: 3732: 3717: 3713: 3709: 3705: 3701: 3697: 3693: 3687: 3682: 3677: 3672: 3671: 3670: 3666: 3662: 3658: 3654: 3653: 3652: 3648: 3644: 3640: 3639: 3638: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3625: 3624: 3620: 3616: 3612: 3608: 3602: 3597: 3589: 3585: 3581: 3579: 3573: 3569: 3568: 3567: 3563: 3559: 3555: 3550: 3546: 3545: 3544: 3540: 3536: 3534: 3528: 3524: 3520: 3519: 3518: 3514: 3510: 3505: 3504: 3503: 3499: 3495: 3489: 3484: 3478: 3474: 3470: 3466: 3465: 3463: 3456: 3452: 3450: 3446: 3442: 3438: 3434: 3430: 3429: 3428: 3424: 3420: 3418: 3412: 3408: 3404: 3400: 3397: 3396: 3394: 3390: 3386: 3382: 3378: 3372: 3367: 3365: 3361: 3357: 3351: 3346: 3345: 3344: 3340: 3336: 3334: 3327: 3317: 3313: 3309: 3304: 3298: 3294: 3290: 3286: 3285: 3284: 3280: 3279: 3273: 3267: 3266: 3257: 3256: 3255: 3251: 3247: 3243: 3242: 3241: 3237: 3236: 3230: 3224: 3223: 3214: 3209: 3208: 3206: 3202: 3198: 3194: 3189: 3186: 3184: 3180: 3176: 3172: 3167: 3166: 3165: 3161: 3157: 3152: 3151: 3145: 3141: 3137: 3134: 3131: 3127: 3124: 3121: 3117: 3114: 3111: 3107: 3104: 3101: 3097: 3093: 3090: 3087: 3083: 3079: 3076: 3073: 3069: 3066:were born in 3065: 3061: 3058: 3055: 3052: 3049: 3046: 3043: 3040: 3037: 3034: 3033: 3030: 3027: 3026: 3007: 3003: 3002: 2996: 2990: 2989: 2980: 2979: 2978: 2974: 2970: 2965: 2960: 2959: 2958: 2954: 2950: 2948: 2942: 2938: 2934: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2924: 2920: 2916: 2912: 2908: 2907: 2906: 2902: 2898: 2896: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2884: 2880: 2876: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2869: 2868: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2860: 2856: 2852: 2848: 2842: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2832: 2830: 2825: 2819: 2816: 2815: 2812: 2808: 2804: 2800: 2796: 2792: 2791: 2790: 2770: 2766: 2762: 2756: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2745: 2744: 2743: 2742: 2741: 2740: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2731: 2729: 2725: 2721: 2718:, don't you. 2717: 2713: 2712: 2711: 2710: 2706: 2702: 2661: 2657: 2653: 2651: 2645: 2644: 2643: 2642: 2641: 2640: 2639: 2638: 2637: 2636: 2635: 2634: 2633: 2632: 2631: 2630: 2629: 2628: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2624: 2623: 2622: 2621: 2620: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2613: 2612: 2611: 2607: 2603: 2599: 2595: 2594: 2593: 2592: 2588: 2584: 2580: 2576: 2545: 2541: 2537: 2533: 2529: 2525: 2524: 2523: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2510:"preniershio" 2507: 2506: 2505: 2501: 2497: 2493: 2489: 2485: 2481: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2477: 2473: 2469: 2465: 2461: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2444: 2443: 2439: 2435: 2431: 2426: 2425: 2424: 2420: 2416: 2412: 2406: 2401: 2387: 2383: 2379: 2375: 2374: 2373: 2369: 2365: 2361: 2355: 2350: 2349: 2348: 2344: 2340: 2336: 2332: 2328: 2323: 2322: 2321: 2317: 2313: 2308: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2298: 2294: 2290: 2289: 2288: 2284: 2280: 2276: 2275: 2274: 2270: 2266: 2263:, etc., etc? 2262: 2259: 2258: 2257: 2253: 2249: 2247: 2241: 2240: 2239: 2235: 2231: 2227: 2224: 2223: 2222: 2218: 2214: 2210: 2206: 2205: 2204: 2200: 2196: 2190: 2185: 2184: 2183: 2182: 2178: 2174: 2170: 2166: 2161: 2160: 2157: 2153: 2149: 2145: 2144: 2143: 2142: 2137: 2133: 2129: 2123: 2118: 2117: 2116: 2115: 2110: 2106: 2102: 2098: 2094: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2088: 2084: 2080: 2075: 2072: 2071: 2054: 2050: 2046: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2036: 2032: 2030: 2024: 2020: 2019: 2018: 2014: 2010: 2006: 2005: 2004: 2000: 1996: 1991: 1990: 1989: 1985: 1981: 1977: 1973: 1972: 1971: 1967: 1963: 1959: 1955: 1951: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1941: 1940: 1934: 1928: 1927: 1918: 1917: 1914: 1910: 1906: 1902: 1898: 1897: 1896: 1895: 1892: 1888: 1887: 1881: 1875: 1874: 1866: 1863: 1862: 1857: 1853: 1849: 1845: 1844: 1843: 1842: 1839: 1836: 1831: 1830: 1823: 1820: 1819: 1788: 1784: 1780: 1778: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1766: 1762: 1758: 1757: 1756: 1752: 1748: 1746: 1740: 1739: 1738: 1734: 1730: 1726: 1725: 1724: 1720: 1716: 1714: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1702: 1698: 1694: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1684: 1680: 1679:Bretonbanquet 1675: 1673: 1669: 1665: 1660: 1658: 1654: 1650: 1649:Bretonbanquet 1646: 1642: 1641: 1640: 1636: 1632: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1622: 1618: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1608: 1604: 1600: 1599: 1598: 1594: 1590: 1585: 1584: 1583: 1579: 1575: 1574:Bretonbanquet 1570: 1569: 1568: 1564: 1560: 1555: 1554: 1553: 1549: 1545: 1544:Bretonbanquet 1540: 1539: 1535: 1531: 1527: 1523: 1522: 1521: 1520: 1517: 1513: 1509: 1508:Bretonbanquet 1505: 1502: 1501: 1498: 1495: 1489: 1486: 1485: 1442: 1438: 1434: 1430: 1428: 1422: 1421: 1420: 1416: 1412: 1410: 1403: 1402: 1401: 1397: 1393: 1389: 1384: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1373: 1369: 1367: 1360: 1352: 1348: 1344: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1333: 1329: 1323: 1318: 1316: 1312: 1308: 1307:Bretonbanquet 1301: 1296: 1295: 1292: 1287: 1283: 1279: 1275: 1272: 1271: 1270: 1266: 1262: 1258: 1252: 1248: 1242: 1238: 1234: 1230: 1226: 1222: 1221: 1220: 1216: 1212: 1211:Bretonbanquet 1208: 1207: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1192: 1188: 1184: 1180: 1176: 1175: 1174: 1170: 1166: 1164: 1157: 1153: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1143: 1139: 1133: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1122: 1118: 1114: 1110: 1106: 1105: 1104: 1100: 1096: 1094: 1088: 1087: 1086: 1082: 1078: 1074: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1064: 1060: 1058: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1034: 1033: 1032: 1028: 1024: 1022: 1016: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1006: 1002: 999:, of course. 998: 994: 993: 992: 988: 984: 982: 976: 975: 974: 970: 966: 962: 961: 960: 956: 952: 950: 944: 943: 942: 938: 934: 930: 926: 918: 914: 910: 906: 902: 901: 900: 896: 892: 888: 887: 886: 885: 884: 883: 882: 878: 874: 870: 866: 865: 864: 860: 856: 850: 842: 836: 835: 834: 830: 826: 822: 818: 812: 808: 804: 800: 797: 795: 791: 787: 783: 782: 781: 777: 773: 769: 768: 767: 763: 759: 754: 753: 752: 751: 748: 744: 740: 736: 732: 728: 724: 721: 720: 717: 713: 709: 705: 701: 700: 697: 693: 689: 685: 684:international 681: 677: 673: 670: 668: 664: 660: 658: 652: 649: 648: 635: 631: 627: 621: 616: 615: 614: 610: 606: 602: 596: 591: 590: 589: 585: 581: 575: 570: 569: 568: 564: 560: 556: 555: 554: 550: 546: 541: 536: 531: 530: 525: 521: 517: 513: 509: 504: 503: 502: 501: 498: 494: 490: 486: 483: 482: 476: 472: 468: 463: 462: 461: 460: 457: 453: 449: 445: 442: 441: 436: 432: 428: 424: 423: 420: 416: 412: 408: 407: 406: 405: 402: 398: 394: 390: 385: 382: 381: 366: 362: 358: 354: 350: 349: 348: 344: 340: 336: 335: 334: 330: 326: 322: 321: 320: 316: 312: 308: 304: 303: 302: 298: 294: 290: 286: 282: 278: 277: 276: 272: 268: 264: 260: 256: 250: 245: 244: 243: 242: 239: 235: 231: 227: 224: 222: 218: 214: 210: 206: 203: 202: 191: 187: 183: 179: 175: 174: 173: 169: 165: 161: 157: 156: 155: 151: 147: 143: 137: 132: 131: 130: 126: 122: 118: 112: 107: 106: 105: 104: 101: 97: 93: 89: 85: 82: 81: 80: 79: 75: 71: 67: 62: 61: 57: 53: 49: 45: 41: 37: 29: 27: 19: 5282:Isthisuseful 5277: 5256: 5191: 5138: 5131:WT:MOSLAYOUT 5033: 5026: 4965: 4887: 4884: 4812: 4811:members? or 4808: 4799: 4798: 4743: 4739: 4703: 4699: 4695: 4594: 4555: 4551: 4529: 4503: 4479: 4426: 4387: 4353: 4314: 4312: 4282: 4262: 4255: 4249: 4164: 4157: 4117: 4110: 4102: 4094: 4086: 4078: 4070: 4062: 4054: 4046: 4038: 4030: 4022: 4014: 4006: 3983: 3982:included in 3979: 3975: 3973: 3954:of parsing. 3950: 3928: 3917: 3868: 3826: 3792: 3767: 3742: 3703: 3699: 3695: 3691: 3656: 3610: 3577: 3548: 3532: 3467:Don't you? 3459: 3416: 3332: 3268: 3261: 3225: 3218: 3094:was born in 3080:was born in 3028: 2991: 2984: 2946: 2936: 2894: 2828: 2823: 2817: 2789: 2698: 2649: 2578: 2572: 2509: 2491: 2463: 2455: 2451: 2447: 2411:Country Born 2410: 2334: 2330: 2326: 2245: 2208: 2096: 2073: 2028: 2021:Not at all: 1975: 1957: 1953: 1949: 1929: 1922: 1900: 1876: 1869: 1864: 1826: 1821: 1776: 1744: 1712: 1503: 1487: 1426: 1408: 1365: 1162: 1092: 1056: 1020: 980: 948: 928: 904: 891:AusLondonder 855:AusLondonder 772:AusLondonder 739:AusLondonder 726: 722: 703: 683: 679: 675: 671: 656: 650: 484: 443: 388: 383: 352: 339:AusLondonder 311:AusLondonder 284: 267:AusLondonder 263:Gordon Brown 225: 204: 164:AusLondonder 136:AusLondonder 121:AusLondonder 83: 63: 33: 25: 5223:Go for it. 5139:SMcCandlish 4966:England, UK 4595:England, UK 4055:Cyprus Mail 4047:China Daily 3951:England, UK 3929:SMcCandlish 3922:#Discussion 3680:- True dat. 3549:strict rule 3523:Netherlands 3455:Netherlands 3407:Netherlands 3393:Netherlands 3385:Netherlands 3116:Kim Kielsen 3068:Netherlands 2818:England, UK 1865:England, UK 1504:England, UK 1488:England, UK 1199:Netherlands 1037:that bridge 929:constituent 869:our article 727:England, UK 672:England, UK 651:England, UK 444:England, UK 384:England, UK 307:WP:CIRCULAR 281:WP:CIRCULAR 5297:? Are you 4851:Daicaregos 4581:Daicaregos 4574:verifiable 4556:never will 4552:never have 4490:Daicaregos 4483:verifiable 4371:Daicaregos 4288:Daicaregos 4236:Daicaregos 4198:Chippenham 4126:Daicaregos 4065:, France: 4041:, Canada: 4033:, Canada: 3970:Discussion 3778:Daicaregos 3706:"the UK"? 3696:a country? 3686:Daicaregos 3661:Daicaregos 3629:Daicaregos 3601:GoldenRing 3494:GoldenRing 3469:GoldenRing 3308:GoldenRing 3175:GoldenRing 3156:GoldenRing 3098:, not the 3084:, not the 3070:, not the 3064:Mark Rutte 3036:Henry Puna 2964:Caernarfon 2911:Tony Blair 2598:dead heron 2462:, not the 1493:-- BOD -- 1392:Daicaregos 1388:That essay 1343:GoldenRing 620:Daicaregos 605:Daicaregos 574:Daicaregos 559:Daicaregos 427:Daicaregos 255:Tony Blair 209:Daicaregos 160:ISO 3166-1 146:Daicaregos 117:ISO 3166-1 111:Daicaregos 92:Daicaregos 70:Daicaregos 52:Daicaregos 44:Chippenham 36:Chippenham 4089:, Spain: 4073:, Italy: 4063:L'Express 4031:La Presse 3956:LavaBaron 3924:section. 3193:Mike Eman 3078:Mike Eman 2915:WP:ENGVAR 2875:WP:ENGVAR 2841:Davey2010 2261:Mike Eman 2165:Sheffield 1903:UK BLPs? 1195:Mike Eman 207:, as per 142:(page 27) 48:Wiltshire 40:Wiltshire 5122:everyone 4674:Dtellett 4185:Ghmyrtle 3888:trumping 3843:Ghmyrtle 3811:Ghmyrtle 2755:JezGrove 2488:JezGrove 2434:JezGrove 2312:JezGrove 2279:JezGrove 2122:Dtellett 2079:Dtellett 1976:American 1645:WP:OLINK 1109:Ghmyrtle 909:Ghmyrtle 873:Ghmyrtle 849:Ghmyrtle 786:Ghmyrtle 758:Ghmyrtle 467:Ghmyrtle 357:Ghmyrtle 353:guidance 325:Ghmyrtle 293:Ghmyrtle 285:for text 249:Ghmyrtle 230:Ghmyrtle 182:Ghmyrtle 5257:England 5225:GoodDay 5202:, and 5200:GoodDay 5127:WP:CENT 5086:GoodDay 4970:GoodDay 4926:GoodDay 4907:country 4892:GoodDay 4888:British 4865:GoodDay 4818:GoodDay 4748:GoodDay 4740:country 4722:Arizona 4708:GoodDay 4700:country 4642:GoodDay 4599:GoodDay 4560:GoodDay 4508:GoodDay 4319:GoodDay 3988:GoodDay 3873:GoodDay 3797:GoodDay 3793:country 3747:GoodDay 3743:Country 3411:England 3403:Denmark 3389:Denmark 3096:Curaçao 3029:England 2799:red one 2797:with a 2701:GoodDay 2583:GoodDay 2528:GoodDay 2526:Sorry, 2514:GoodDay 2484:GoodDay 2468:GoodDay 2452:English 2448:British 2354:GoodDay 2339:GoodDay 2335:British 2327:British 2293:GoodDay 2213:GoodDay 2189:GoodDay 2148:GoodDay 2101:GoodDay 1995:GoodDay 1962:GoodDay 1958:British 1950:British 1631:GoodDay 1603:GoodDay 1015:WP:NPOV 933:GoodDay 927:Adding 841:GoodDay 825:GoodDay 799:England 708:GoodDay 688:GoodDay 680:British 512:English 226:England 205:England 84:England 5301:about 5295:Really 5210:NickCT 4992:WP:AGF 3892:WP:MoS 3871:word. 3708:NickCT 3690:- re " 3615:NickCT 3606:Texan. 3488:NickCT 3457:I see 3356:NickCT 2851:NickCT 2761:NickCT 2415:NickCT 2364:NickCT 2337:bios. 2329:& 2230:NickCT 2195:NickCT 2128:NickCT 1960:bios. 1433:NickCT 1383:NickCT 1328:NickCT 1261:NickCT 1138:NickCT 626:NickCT 595:NickCT 580:NickCT 545:NickCT 489:NickCT 265:- UK. 261:- UK. 257:- UK. 5265:Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ 5042:edits 4813:55/56 4807:have 4506:. :( 4271:edits 4250:prove 4173:edits 4079:Today 4003:WP:RS 3869:first 3770:WP:RS 3277:edits 3234:edits 3082:Aruba 3000:edits 2824:Davey 2716:heels 1938:edits 1885:edits 1243:(ec) 1203:Aruba 16:< 5311:talk 5303:that 5299:sure 5286:talk 5269:talk 5246:talk 5229:talk 5214:talk 5204:N-HH 5166:talk 5112:talk 5100:it's 5090:talk 5058:talk 5036:talk 5029:N-HH 5000:talk 4974:talk 4950:talk 4930:talk 4916:talk 4896:talk 4869:talk 4855:talk 4841:talk 4822:talk 4801:etc. 4774:talk 4752:talk 4730:talk 4712:talk 4686:talk 4646:talk 4632:talk 4603:talk 4585:talk 4564:talk 4554:and 4536:talk 4530:Wykx 4512:talk 4494:talk 4455:talk 4447:half 4433:talk 4427:Wykx 4413:talk 4394:talk 4388:Wykx 4375:talk 4360:talk 4354:Wykx 4338:talk 4323:talk 4315:hide 4292:talk 4265:talk 4258:N-HH 4240:talk 4210:talk 4189:talk 4167:talk 4160:N-HH 4146:talk 4130:talk 3992:talk 3960:talk 3900:talk 3877:talk 3847:talk 3833:talk 3827:Wykx 3815:talk 3801:talk 3782:talk 3751:talk 3712:talk 3665:talk 3647:talk 3633:talk 3619:talk 3611:more 3584:talk 3578:Wykx 3562:talk 3539:talk 3533:Wykx 3513:talk 3498:talk 3473:talk 3445:talk 3435:and 3423:talk 3417:Wykx 3405:and 3387:and 3379:and 3371:Wykx 3360:talk 3350:Wykx 3339:talk 3333:Wykx 3312:talk 3293:talk 3271:talk 3264:N-HH 3250:talk 3228:talk 3221:N-HH 3201:talk 3179:talk 3160:talk 3138:and 3062:and 2994:talk 2987:N-HH 2973:talk 2953:talk 2947:Wykx 2923:talk 2901:talk 2895:Wykx 2883:talk 2855:talk 2829:2010 2807:talk 2765:talk 2724:talk 2705:talk 2656:talk 2650:Wykx 2606:talk 2587:talk 2540:talk 2518:talk 2500:talk 2492:born 2472:talk 2438:talk 2419:talk 2405:Wykx 2382:talk 2368:talk 2343:talk 2316:talk 2297:talk 2283:talk 2269:talk 2252:talk 2246:Wykx 2234:talk 2217:talk 2199:talk 2173:talk 2152:talk 2132:talk 2105:talk 2083:talk 2049:talk 2035:talk 2029:Wykx 2013:talk 1999:talk 1984:talk 1966:talk 1932:talk 1925:N-HH 1909:talk 1879:talk 1872:N-HH 1852:talk 1783:talk 1777:Wykx 1765:talk 1751:talk 1745:Wykx 1733:talk 1719:talk 1713:Wykx 1701:talk 1683:talk 1668:talk 1653:talk 1635:talk 1621:talk 1607:talk 1593:talk 1578:talk 1563:talk 1548:talk 1530:talk 1512:talk 1437:talk 1427:Wykx 1415:talk 1409:Wykx 1396:talk 1372:talk 1366:Wykx 1347:talk 1332:talk 1311:talk 1282:talk 1265:talk 1249:and 1247:Wykx 1233:talk 1215:talk 1187:talk 1169:talk 1163:Wykx 1142:talk 1121:talk 1099:talk 1093:Wykx 1081:talk 1063:talk 1057:Wykx 1045:talk 1027:talk 1021:Wykx 1005:talk 987:talk 981:Wykx 969:talk 955:talk 949:Wykx 937:talk 913:talk 895:talk 877:talk 859:talk 829:talk 807:talk 790:talk 776:talk 762:talk 743:talk 712:talk 692:talk 663:talk 657:Wykx 630:talk 609:talk 584:talk 563:talk 549:talk 520:talk 493:talk 471:talk 452:talk 431:talk 415:talk 397:talk 361:talk 343:talk 329:talk 315:talk 297:talk 279:See 271:talk 234:talk 217:talk 186:talk 168:talk 150:talk 125:talk 96:talk 74:talk 56:talk 5153:ⱷ≌ 5149:≜ⱷ҅ 4480:and 4087:ABC 3984:all 3978:or 3943:ⱷ≌ 3939:≜ⱷ҅ 3704:not 3700:not 2209:all 2097:all 1901:all 737:? 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Index

Talk:Jeremy Corbyn
Chippenham
Wiltshire
Chippenham
Wiltshire
Daicaregos
talk
12:06, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
RfC: for place of birth in the infobox -- England or UK?
Daicaregos
talk
12:08, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
Documentation for this Infobox
Daicaregos
talk
12:09, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
Daicaregos
ISO 3166-1
AusLondonder
talk
16:48, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
AusLondonder
(page 27)
Daicaregos
talk
17:20, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
ISO 3166-1
AusLondonder
talk
17:28, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

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