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2465:") has no source. Why not 30s? And, because the map can't be "read" in black and white: which lands? How do you know that that plot inscribed "Jisr-el-Mujamia", which is the topic of this article, was bought by the PEC and not by PICA/Rotschild/their grandmother? I also want to know what's what around there, but as we stand now, if there's no additional source, that map should be removed, as all it does is to create the wrong impression and attract misleading captions. All it does offer is what lands Rutenberg thought at a preliminary phase he would need to build the water channels etc., which isn't needed here. Cheers,
2641:, respect! Never thought of it. This one is smack in the middle of the Rutenberg plant area, you can actually see one or two Jordanian border facilities from what used to be called the Peace Island. I never thought this could be anything but part of the Rutenberg thing. Since it's pre-WWI and it looks of industrial age, it can only be one of Meissner's bridges. I'm sure it shows on the maps along the tracks. Good point about the sketch. Didn't know it's from 1927. I didn't fully zoom in on the legend, but I don't think it's written there. We'll figure it all out. Thanks again!
1621:, you can see the Yarmouk coming in from the right full of water and meeting the Jordan in a small triangle. The NE leg of the triangle is a diversion of the Jordan used to add Jordan water to the reservoir (looks to me that it has no water now), while the NW leg is the original Jordan course (definitely with water). So I propose that the confluence of the two rivers is at the SW corner of the triangle, which is the pre-power station confluence too.
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1450:"200 meters south of the confluence of the Yarmouk and Jordan rivers" -- I know Peterson says that, but it's quite confusing. Before the power station it was several km downstream (look at PEF map for example). Now it is 200m south of the tail race canal from the power station. If that is considered the Yarmouk River then Peterson can be excused, but is it? Is there any water flowing through the old power station still?
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2555:). It can't be the modern road bridge from the 20s (probably too early; let's say the Ozzies used later photos: for that it's too tattered and damaged). Rutenberg probably deepened the riverbed to make it better suited as an extension to the "tail race canal" or whatever (see B), I guess that explains some of the changes
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established on its lands p 315) and 548 dunums land (p 135). Says JaM "established by the
Ottoman government in or around 1909 and was ―intended for a military guard that would control the Trans-Jordan Bedouins who were raiding the area." Mentions Schumacher's map showing train station and village.(p 187)
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The article should make it clear that the bridge and the village had this name, unless the village has a separate article (do we have enough on it?). I'm not sure it is true that the 6000 dunums sold to
Rutenberg had this name in any formal sense; rather I think it just used the nearby locality name
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of two branches of the Jordan in that place after having separated before." Maps of the 1920s show the Jordan River dividing into two and then flowing together again a few hundred meters before the bridge, just as Finn says. In building the power station, the point where it divided into two was split
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Apparently, at first there was a small group of Arab squatters inside the khan ruins, but were they
Bedouin or farmers? And even more important: what came after that? Maybe a bridge administrator with his household? The first Kibbutz Gesher was set up inside the khan, but when? Was the population of
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I see the exact same thing happened with the Jacob's
Daughters Bridge: pointy, then by the time Creswell photographs it, the central, tallest arch has been "shaven" to the level of the lateral ones, a wooden improvisation fills in the created gap, and masonry levels everything towards the two ends.
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That JaM seem to name two areas is one issue, another issue is how far below the joining of the
Yarmouk/Jordan river the bridge is. From my understanding (and I am absolutely not very sure about this)..that joining was originally farther north. With the building of the hydroelectric power plant,
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I strongly disagree about the current location. If the
Yarmouk came out near Jisr el-Majami, then Peace Island would be north of it and modern history would be entirely different. I believe that Peterson is simply wrong, and the confluence of the Jordan and the Yarmouk is not far from where it used
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On the
Palestinian side of the bridge was a customs post and a police station. On the Transjordanian side was another customs post. About 500m from the bridge in the NE direction was a cluster of buildings labeled "Palestine Gendarmerie Frontier Post" on the 1920s map and "T.J. Police Post" on the
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The OG 284 1 June 1931 p 35 "It is notified for general information that a
Customs Post has now been opened by the Trans-Jordan Government at Jisr al Majami', where goods imported to Trans-Jordan from Palestine will be subject to formalities similar to those in force at the Allenby Bridge(19 May
1990:
As I said in
Naharayim discussion, the 6000 appears to have been carved out of a larger piece that included the village of Al Baqura (and was being used by Bedouin I think, who were resettled). I agree it seems strange to name it at that point, I would feel better if I could find some other source
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hi. Thanks for the great resource, I wasn't aware of it. I had read that under Trump a private provider had made hi-res satellite images of Israel/Palestine available, breaking the old rule. I guess now, that the cat is out of the bag, resolution will improve on Google
Satellite as well. Or maybe
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No, but close. It is a 1:20K map dated 1942. What you found is a military version at 1:25K with the projection changed from Cassini-Solder to Transverse Mercator (better for aiming artillery or something like that). The detail at our points of interest appears to be the same, but the 1:20K map is
2352:, map 20-22.1942. But the NLI site is unpredictable. Sometimes maps load instantly and sometimes (like now) I just get a black screen. Sometimes changing browser works. In the past I have found the map curator very helpful, fixing problems and opening maps that were clearly in the public domain.
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When the power station was in operation, water from both the Jordan and the Yarmouk were diverted into the reservoir and from there it passed through the power station and out into the lower Jordan 200m north of Jisr el-Majami. I'm dubious that that location was ever called the confluence of the
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The map does in no way contain this information (see also what I wrote on the image's talk-page). W/o colours, the map is useless, as its very purpose was to distinguish between lands bought previously by the Baron and others, which happened to be useful for the hydroelectric project, and those
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Did you figure out what has happened to the bridge? The WWI photos are showing a flat bridge, impossible to reconcile with the older photos and drawings, and with the bridge recently restored by the Italians. Did the Ottomans fully rebuilt it, maybe leaving only the central arch, but bringing
1952:
In the 1920s 1:20K map (before the power station construction started), "JISR EL-MAJAMI" is written large across the lands of that village on the west of the river and the north of that village. Would Transjordan have applied the same name on the east of the river to land being sold to Jews?
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refers (p 118) to "other small hamlets that popped up during the period and were later deserted either because they were sold to Jew (as in the case with Jisr al Majami) or were unstable." 22 census gives pop of 112 (p 131) ( By 1931 it had only 3. In 1939 the Jewish settlement of Gesher was
1630:
As proof that the route through the reservoir and power station is not considered a new path of the Yarmouk, let me quote Annex I(A).2A.1 of the 1994 peace treaty: "The boundary line shall follow the middle of the main course of the flow of the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers". So you can find the
1464:- only Jacotin has the bridge as close to the Yarmuk as it should be. There is no doubt that today the bridge is "200 meters south of the confluence..." It seems strange that all the 19th century maps, including the PEF, were wrong here. Perhaps the course of the river moved over time?
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Well, I don't have much to add to Zero's and Once's explanations; (and yeah; I struggled about the numbers of bridges/their names, too.) One thing, though: the article presently looks horrible "messy"; what about collecting all the maps into one "Gallery" (starting with the oldest -:
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PS: Jacob's Bridge still looks like it's been modified, either fully on purpose, or once it was damaged by whatever they used the chance to "modernise" it in an improvised manner. Maybe the Anzacs, during WWI? And there's no railroad that high up north to come & save the day :)
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Only thing I am a little unclear about, there was a village by that name (I assume named after the bridge and land was sold to Jews and renamed Gesher, I think) and the 6000 dunums sold to Rutenberg was apparently named that as well. Do we need some disambiguation here and
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I looked at a large number of sources. In British official documents I found only "Jisr el Majami/Mejami/Mejamie". In other places I found all three versions, sometimes two in the same source, but "el" was the most common by a large margin. So I support a change of name.
2484:, you are completely right. It would be great to get a color copy. The map was drawn in 1927 so we know it does not show land acquired in the 1930s. I had interpreted that the darker shade was PEC-acquired land, but I acknowledge that this is by no means certain.
2738:. From top to bottom, the ancient bridge, a road bridge (built to replace the ancient one, not sure when but post-1940 and I think post-1960), and a rail bridge. The rail bridge has a portion of track coming off to the left with some abandoned rail cars visible.
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everything else to one level? The 2-slopes aspect with the small arches "filling in" between the pavement/road surface and the lateral, medium-sized arches built on the ground, is missing there. See for instance the Ozzie War Memorial Museum picture (see A or
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acquired specifically to be able to build the entire complex (sluices, channels, reservoir (artificial Jordan-Yarmuk lake), actual power-plant, workers' village). W/o colours, the distinction is lost, gone. Second, the caption's claim ("acquired by PEC
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New, long enough, neutral, no copyvio found, well cited, hook interesting, hook cited (as per ref 14 and source above), QPQ done. Free licensed image and will look OK at 100px. Thank you for creating such a nice article about historical bridge.
1817:- we can take some material from there, I guess. Let me see if I can get another source on this 6000 dunums thing, we know it was called Baqura (area) by the time the lease came around but it is not really clear what it was called before that.
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the bridge, but not its actual shape. So? Did the Turks fully modify it, and the Italians restored it to its former shape, meaning: two almost complete reconstructions since the mid-19th c.? Did you find any source for that? Thanks,
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1663:, counted together with the kibbutz? In what form did Arabs live next to both, or are the late Arab inhabitants, workers living at Tel Or? Only questions, no answers, and the article doesn't even hint at these issues. It is
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The entire paragraph is quite useless, as it doesn't clarify at all the nature of settlement forms at the site, which is the essence of the matter. Counting people says close to nothing about where and how they live.
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the usual case of an Arab village whose land was sold off by absentee landlords (or was it in its first phase?), or one that was evacuated/chased away during the 30s or 40s, and the distinction is of the essence.
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is that place 200m north of the bridge; you can see where the water used to flow in from the right and you can see that it now essentially blocked off. On the other hand, looking on the north side of Peace Island
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Jisr_al_Majami._A_local_person_on_horseback%2C_followed_by_three_camels_carrying_fodder%2C_cross_the_old_Roman_bridge._Behind_them_is_the_railway_bridge.jpg
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Thank you. Looks like when people say "at JeM" what they mean is by or near to the bridge and could be either side of it. It would have been "Palestine" until TJ was separated out from the Mandate, I think.
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Uh, I was right to start with, there is only one source not two, the first one is a collection of essays including one from Fischbach so he is the single source of this datum. I will go back to searching,
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Could be something to do with there being seemingly two JaM's (areas), the one built over by Gesher and the other being the renamed part cut off from Sukhur al-Ghawr in order to do the 6000 dunums? Or not.
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large part was dammed up into a reservoir, (see 05Nazareth map from 1944), and the Yarmuk was allowed to make "a shortcut" into the Jordan river, further south. Is this understanding completely way off??
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2594:, there are two ancient bridges. The photos you just linked to are not of Jisr el Majami, but of another bridge approximately one mile to the north. You can see it on google street view here:
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a railroad bridge, and it's parallel and too close to this one. Back to (almost) square one. And it looks like two bridges right next to each other, or maybe one expanded bridge. I give up.
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Report by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan
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Masonry arch bridges exist at Jisr ed - Damieh , Jisr Sheikh Hussein , Jisr el - Mejamieh , Jisr Benat Yaqub , and el - Gajir over the Jordan and at Jisr Saghir over the Yarmuk.
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It looks like it was partially destroyed as some of the arches have been rebuilt in modern style, but you can clearly see some of the smaller arches match your photos exactly.
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It is frequently mislabelled as Jisr el Majami, and I made the same mistake myself in the original debate about Naharayim. It would be great to clear up the confusion.
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2763:. It's a tourist site, the railroad cars aren't just abandoned, or at least they're being used as part of the display background. Like in Wadi Rum and other places.
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I got the black page, Fireox claimed it was insecure site, I temp overrode it and enabled Adobe flash then hit the full page button and it loaded. Thanks v much.
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There are three bridges at Jisr el-Majami. In the aerial shot in the article there is a second bridge hiding behind the first. To see the layout, look at
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Perhaps the Israel Electric Company can provide a better copy. For that we would need an address for the archives, which might need a search in Hebrew.
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please check again. It needs the article el-. Jisr el-Majami is clearly the most common spelling, al- less common, but definitely not without. "Bridge
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thank you. I have now fixed this. It turns out that the railway bridge was the lowest point ever reached by railway anywhere in the world.
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2454:, hi. Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate the way you have created and expanded the article. The "Lands Acquired..." map though...
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confluence by following the border to the point where the Jordan leaves it. I think that gives the point in my previous paragraph.
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So I reordered the whole thing: maps in increasing order (in years); the same for pictures. If anyone don't agree; just undo it,
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So probably they gave up on the ancient arch-with-keystone technology to allow for a level road for wheeled traffic. I guess.
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for example. That point is 3-4 km upstream from the bridge. Not only 19th century maps but 20th century maps agree on this.
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Hi Zero. They're the best payed employees in Israel, maybe that motivates them, but maybe it makes them lazy, who knows.
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presumably built the metal bridge in your old photo. But the arched bridge, or what is left of it, looks ancient to me.
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The current caption reads: "The land surrounding the bridge was acquired by Palestine Electric Company in the 1920s."
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into two separate channels. You can see the two channels that used to be joined at the lower left and lower right of
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B File:1935 Palestine Electric Corporation General Scheme for the area around the First Jordan Power House.jpg
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Confusing the issue is the fact that the coordinates given in the article are miles off. I fixed it:
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The article has a dispute tag, and this will have to be resolved before the hook can be promoted.
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has a redlink Jisr el Majamie, says cavalry squadron stationed there. Will look into that a bit.
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rivers, as the waters had already come together at the reservoir. For the current situation,
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newest); then keeping the pictures in a separate gallery, below (much as it is)? Thoughts?
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Thank you. Yes, that is an interesting fact. Restoring tick per Nizil Shah's review.
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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I thought we only had the one but we do have two separate sources for the 6000/JeM:
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2663:. I can’t see at the moment where I got the 1927 from, but it may be in the text.
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Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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this is an older, army-vetted resource? Doesn't matter, good that we have it.
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Dispute tag has been removed, but two paragraphs lack any citations, per
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Battle of Samakh#Australian Mounted Division advance to Jisr el Mejamie
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you are 100% right. I was wrong. I checked it on googlestreetview. See
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Ah, they want a log in for that, I will make do with the other one:)
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I should have known! Thank you. I have merged them and sent to DYK.
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Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
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Pic from above, Jisr el Mejamie railway bridge over Jordan River
2899:) means "small", so sadly it is not a very descriptive name....
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Fwiw, Alex Kirkbride seems to have thought that JaM = Naharayim
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Les Mandats Français Et Anglais Dans Une Perspective Comparative
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I know about the three bridges, I had just added the info in a
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Jisr es Saghir in Schumacher Ostjordanlandes A4 (cropped)
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Restoration of Jisr el-Majami’ Bridge on the Jordan River
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I am fine with that too. I have been bold and moved it.
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Articles needing translation from Hebrew Knowledge (XXG)
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74:. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at
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Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
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1460:Hmm. I just looked at all the 19th century maps on
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Category:Jordan articles missing geocoordinate data
2195:1940s map. It is right near the edge of the image
2895:Ha, that brought a smile to my face. FYI Saghir (
2241:Sir Alec Kirkbride; Alec Seath Kirkbride (1976).
1804:as informal identification until it got its own.
1710:Wrong name, needs article "el-" (Jisr el-Majami)
532:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in Israel
1560:who put the correct coordinates in 3 days ago
1483:to be; see where the border leaves the Jordan
2443:Power-plant "map" not useful, on the contrary
1876:Jewish Property Claims Against Arab Countries
76:Template:Did you know nominations/Jisr Majami
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517:Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
879:Jordan University of Science and Technology
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72:Knowledge (XXG):Recent additions/2020/May
55:). The text of the entry was as follows:
2881:, you're my Santa! Oncie rocks, thanks.
2660:, FYI this is the source of the sketch:
2244:From the Wings: Amman Memoirs, 1947-1951
1853:Nadine Mâeouchy; Peter Sluglett (2004).
1659:Tel Or, Rutenberg's workers' village at
833:Jordan–Israel Mixed Armistice Commission
502:Knowledge (XXG) requested maps in Israel
2823:Colonial Office, Great Britain (1922).
1938:Sorry, I don't really have an opinion.
1873:Michael R. Fischbach (26 August 2008).
1220:Template:Did you know nominations/Qibla
958:Headwater Diversion Plan (Jordan River)
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1879:. Columbia University Press. pp. 82–.
987:Jordanians in the United Arab Emirates
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2619:in case they can shed any light here.
70:A record of the entry may be seen at
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1049:, feel free to copy from my draft,
664:This article is within the scope of
173:This article is within the scope of
361:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel
116:It is of interest to the following
2693:Wait... Problem. The metal bridge
2525:Evolution: bridge during/after WWI
684:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Jordan
286:Unassessed Israel-related articles
193:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Israel
61:... that Italy helped to renovate
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2858:Commons:Category:Jisr es Saghir
2856:I have made a present for you:
1101:Please do not modify this page.
785:(composer of national anthem),
704:This article has been rated as
497:Module:Location map/data/Israel
213:This article has been rated as
2974:Low-importance Jordan articles
444:Add geographic coordinates to
358:Participate in discussions at
41:appeared on Knowledge (XXG)'s
1:
678:and see a list of open tasks.
187:and see a list of open tasks.
2247:. Psychology Press. pp. 4–.
1953:Anything is possible, but..
1344:this has now been resolved.
971:Jordanian protests (2011–12)
942:As-Salam al-Malaki al-Urduni
925:The Children's Museum Jordan
900:Jordanian protests (2011–12)
787:Illegal drug trade in Jordan
529:Add pictures to articles in
2979:WikiProject Jordan articles
2964:WikiProject Israel articles
1490:A better explanation is in
1106:this nomination's talk page
887:Medical education in Jordan
687:Template:WikiProject Jordan
416:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu
196:Template:WikiProject Israel
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2935:21:07, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
2909:18:50, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
2891:14:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
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2829:. H.M. Stationery Office.
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2052:Transjordan Frontier Force
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1303:13:39, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
1281:11:11, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
1051:User:Huldra/Jisr al Majami
854:Princess Sarvath al-Hassan
710:project's importance scale
499:. Add maps to articles in
380:Diamond industry in Israel
219:project's importance scale
67:between Israel and Jordan?
1254:22:12, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
1085:22:15, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
1063:21:34, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
954:Abdullah Ensour's cabinet
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1462:Cartography of Palestine
1425:16:33, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
1404:16:15, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
1379:16:01, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
1139:19:51, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
721:Tasks YOU can help with:
439:Geographical coordinates
2969:C-Class Jordan articles
2271:The 40's map, you mean
2098:Like a rash, unlinked:
1354:07:27, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
1324:05:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
1110:the article's talk page
408:Public Defence (Israel)
309:is available. See also
199:Israel-related articles
51:column on 17 May 2020 (
2804:
2289:sharper and in color.
2151:
1813:If you take a look at
983:Jordan–Syria relations
875:Crown Prince of Jordan
106:This article is rated
87:
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975:Agriculture in Jordan
783:Abdul Qader al-Taneer
230:Project Israel To Do:
110:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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2736:this satellite image
946:Transjordan (region)
938:Jordan-related stubs
315:the tool's wiki page
311:the list by category
1859:. BRILL. pp. 492–.
1175:Jisr Majami in 2016
579:Translate to Hebrew
2805:
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1741:meeting". Cheers,
883:1944 Jordan League
775:1958 Jordan crisis
667:WikiProject Jordan
495:See discussion at
176:WikiProject Israel
112:content assessment
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2901:Onceinawhile
2877:Onceinawhile
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2639:Onceinawhile
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2625:Onceinawhile
2573:
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2536:hi again :)
2532:Onceinawhile
2528:
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2486:Onceinawhile
2463:in the 1920s
2462:
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2450:Onceinawhile
2446:
2348:You can try
2243:
1900:
1875:
1855:
1768:Onceinawhile
1738:
1729:Onceinawhile
1713:
1664:
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1566:Onceinawhile
1540:Onceinawhile
1501:this picture
1495:
1466:Onceinawhile
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1346:Onceinawhile
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59:Did you know
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48:Did you know
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38:
37:A fact from
2715:, I agree.
2407:Selfstudier
2336:Selfstudier
2276:Selfstudier
2259:Selfstudier
2154:Selfstudier
2103:Selfstudier
2056:Selfstudier
2038:Selfstudier
1993:Selfstudier
1941:Doug Weller
1926:Selfstudier
1902:Selfstudier
1819:Selfstudier
1791:Selfstudier
1733:Selfstudier
1717:Doug Weller
1696:Selfstudier
1691:this source
1584:Selfstudier
1492:Finn's book
1228:Created by
871:Six-Day War
323:Collaborate
53:check views
2943:Categories
1514:check here
1340:Cwmhiraeth
1336:Nizil Shah
1316:Cwmhiraeth
1192:(pictured)
850:Nabataeans
800:by quality
592:Guy Oseary
384:Edna Arbel
2897:wikt:صغير
2273:this one?
2050:Heh, the
1991:about it.
1661:Naharayim
1293:Regards,-
1181:... that
588:Guy Bavli
427:See also
283:Rate the
43:Main Page
2883:Arminden
2852:Arminden
2765:Arminden
2751:Zero0000
2713:Arminden
2699:Arminden
2681:Arminden
2658:Arminden
2643:Arminden
2611:Zero0000
2607:Pinging
2592:Arminden
2577:Arminden
2562:Arminden
2512:Arminden
2482:Arminden
2467:Arminden
1743:Arminden
1721:Zero0000
1686:Arminden
1670:Arminden
1556:Bolter21
1530:Zero0000
1446:Location
1269:Doing...
1216:Reviewed
1204:Source:
1194:between
1188:a bridge
1185:rebuilt
1127:promoted
840:Copyedit
473:Maintain
340:Copyedit
64:a bridge
2761:caption
1731:, and
1496:meeting
1417:Yoninah
1390:Yoninah
1371:Yoninah
1367:Rule D2
1332:Thanks
1151:Comment
1131:Yoninah
858:'Umayri
823:Cleanup
808:Harrana
735:history
708:on the
456:Infobox
301:Cleanup
244:history
217:on the
108:C-class
45:in the
2927:Huldra
2921:"Bold"
2782:Huldra
2615:Huldra
2557:around
2036:1931)
1789:there?
1739:of the
1725:Huldra
1599:Huldra
1238:Huldra
1236:) and
1200:Jordan
1196:Israel
1071:Huldra
1055:Huldra
994:Wikify
965:Update
865:Expand
794:Assess
681:Jordan
672:Jordan
628:Jordan
590:, and
558:Update
370:Expand
278:Assess
190:Israel
181:Israel
137:Israel
114:scale.
1295:Nizil
1273:Nizil
1252:) at
1183:Italy
1042:Draft
1010:Other
932:Stubs
917:Dabke
894:Merge
745:purge
740:watch
570:Other
541:Stubs
524:Photo
254:purge
249:watch
2931:talk
2905:talk
2887:talk
2866:talk
2841:talk
2813:talk
2786:talk
2769:talk
2740:Zero
2725:talk
2703:talk
2685:talk
2669:talk
2647:talk
2629:talk
2613:and
2581:talk
2566:talk
2553:here
2516:talk
2500:Zero
2490:talk
2471:talk
2411:talk
2354:Zero
2350:here
2340:talk
2291:Zero
2280:talk
2263:talk
2249:ISBN
2201:Zero
2197:here
2158:talk
2107:talk
2060:talk
2042:talk
1997:talk
1955:Zero
1945:talk
1930:talk
1924:lol.
1906:talk
1881:ISBN
1861:ISBN
1823:talk
1806:Zero
1795:talk
1772:talk
1759:Zero
1747:talk
1700:talk
1674:talk
1633:Zero
1623:Zero
1619:here
1614:here
1603:talk
1588:talk
1570:talk
1562:here
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1505:Zero
1485:here
1470:talk
1452:Zero
1421:talk
1400:talk
1375:talk
1350:talk
1338:and
1320:talk
1299:talk
1277:talk
1250:talk
1242:talk
1234:talk
1198:and
1155:view
1135:talk
1081:talk
1059:talk
911:NPOV
802:and
730:edit
546:See
511:NPOV
478:See
313:and
289:and
239:edit
2779:-->
2656:Hi
2590:Hi
2480:Hi
1665:not
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1129:by
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700:Low
490:Map
209:Low
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