Talk:Judaism and sexuality

3704:- regarding the first sentence, the academic source we are using says "restrictive" and we should use "restrictive" (or restrained) as well. The views on sex changed from early Christian writers to "original sin". There are multiple ways to understand Christianity - any serious source, like Britannica, will note that there are theological and academic sources, Church traditions and also a cultural understanding that may not reflect those sources. This is why we agreed to remove original sin in the first place. Beyond that, the restrictive attitude on sex in Christianity predates Original Sin and Augustine - it didn't start with Original Sin. This is not a minority view - it is widely recognized by major scholars in this field who study Greek language texts. There have always been theological differences between Judaism and Christianity, and Christianity was on the whole more restrictive 1943:

is not what we do here on Knowledge - it is irrelevant and undue - I am removing it. You seem to also be consistently chastised for promoting one school of Judaism over others as the truth. You should consider using attribution and being clear about the theological doctrine and its development within certain sects, and noting places where doctrine converges, instead of adding material to the encyclopedia that is inaccurate. In the future, you should certainly avoid SYNTH comparisons of two separate religions which each have their own differing views within the religion. Since you self-identify as a rabbi, this does not appear to be a good faith mistake, and if you did indeed add this content then I will caution you that it is not acceptable to push your own religious views by denigrating other religions.

4044:

of the academic sources I have seen that compare Judaism and Christianity do this in a historical context, including Brundage. Similarly, they all discuss which early Christian writers had positive views and negative views. It is clear from the context that the sources are discussing the attitudes of "early Christian writers" contrasted with the views of contemporary rabbis - not the attitudes of "Judaism" and "Christianity" - this language is imprecise, and you have been consistently unwilling to acknowledge this (initially you would not even agree to note that the context was historical, though you have changed your position during this RfC). When you went out and found non-academic media sources that supported only the specific language you wanted, that is what I would consider cherry-picking.

3313:

me I have a problem with the attitude of Christianity about sex is a personal comment. I do not want to have personal discussions with you. Christianity is not about sex - the doctrine you are referencing is far more complicated then what you are making it sound like. I don't think there are many scholars of Christianity here, so I understand that this point may be not be clear to many of our editors. But you also don't want to listen or consider any view other then the one you are pushing. Religion and being religious means different things to different people. To say the Christian view is "unfavorable" towards sex is not enough. That is not Christianity. If I absolutely must, I can talk to you during a consensus discussion, but this is an RfC, and you are not saying anything new.

3813:, but there are more.) Further, when you compare the practices in religious communities, you find similar abuses documented in all of them, and similarly unhappy congregations - at least as far as women and young people are concerned. I can find at least a dozen sources and they all emphasize the inaction of the rabbis and the terrible (and sometimes illegal) advice that they give to those suffering from various kinds of domestic and sexual abuse. At first you cited the opinion of only a rabbi, and not a particularly well-known rabbi, and you reacted very defensively to any criticism that source's authority. Don't take this as a personal attack, but I still don't think it meets Knowledge's standards for 4168:@Jytdog, as an uninvolved editor. I don't understand. I explained many times now that including a sentence about the negative attitude of Christianity is not the same as "push a negative view of Christianity", as Seraphim System puts it. How can I get that through to him? For example, "Christianity has a negative attitude to drug use", is a positive sentence. There is simply no fixed connection between the attitude of Christianity towards something and people's attitude towards Christianity. Should I drop it? It seems as though this whole argument is simply based on a misunderstanding, and I feel that is a shame. 3263:

discuss it. What is the point of adding a source like "Jews are better at sex then Christians." The only reason this is in the article is to promote one religion over another in a way that is extremely painful and damaging for followers of that religion. When Christians read things like this, they don't suddenly decide their religion is deeply flawed, they decide they are deeply flawed because they are constantly flooded by reports that "Christianity thinks sex is bad" - in an encyclopedia, if you raise this issue, you should be willing to add two sentences from academic sources explaining its background.

1860:) says original sin was a sin of pride, disobedience and ingratitude. Reading sexuality into original sin is controversial because it implicitly places blames on Eve for Adam's sin - under the doctrine both Adam and Eve share blame for the original sin, which is nothing more then the fall from grace. It more broadly discusses "the rebellion of man's lower appetites against reason and will" - but interpreting this as "does not view sex favorably" without any detailed discussion reinforces widely believed misconceptions that are harmful, sexist and doctrinally inaccurate - unless you want to discuss the 1554:

abomination." (Leviticus, 18:22). However, Rashi interpreted the matter as only prohibiting anal sexual acts between two men (and not other sexual acts between them), as he stated: "As one would penetrate a blue-brush into a receiver." But other authoritative commentators of the Torah see all sexual acts between two males to be included within the ban on "sperm in vain". The Jewish sages added additional barriers to this ban, and forbid males to put themselves in any situation that might lead to such an offense. For example: Chazal prohibited two single males from sleeping under the same blanket.

3234:'s wording, but for me, the issue is mainly that it is not ok to introduce soemthing controversial, such as a negative comparison of religions ("more favorably than Christianity") if you are not willing to discuss it in the article. It is not ok to just state that, and then not go into detail. You don't just write a topic sentence and not write a paragraph about it. If the paragraph would overburden the article, then the entire thing should be removed, as it is most likely undue for this article in any case. I can't imagine any encyclopedia articles would deal with this subject in this manner. 4138:

your states purpose is to push a negative view of Christianity and a positive view of Judaism, whether the sources support it or not. Once again your comments are not productive and you are unable to discuss the content instead of the editor, so I am through with this. We will have another RfC if we have to, though I am wondering if dispute resolution may be helpful - since I have made several requests that you direct your comemnts to the content and I should not have to deal with constant and repeated personal comments in a consensus discussion.

156: 135: 166: 3580:"The basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is different from that of Christianity, which historically has had a less favorable view of the subject." This proposal is not completely identical to Steven's text, because on second consideration, the word "restrictive" is factually incorrect in two ways: 1. Judaism has more laws regarding sex than Christianity 2. the issue Christianity has with sex is that sex is regarded as something tainted. That is not "restrictive", that is "less favorable". 4074:- I understand what you're saying, most of the early Christian writers were "more" negative - but that is not what our version says, it currently says the "basic positive attiude of Judaism" - this actually is contradicted by a significant number of academic sources. Further, denying scientific evidence that Orthodox Jews suffer from negative attitudes about sex as much as Roman Catholics would be abhorrent. I'm not saying you are doing that, but I think you need to review the sources I posted more carefully. 1695:

argue that in addition, David's love for Jonathan was sexual, which the Tanach does not say, at least not openly. Other Jews argue that it wasn't and the Tanakh doesn't even imply it was. A topic for debate by those more learned than I. But the question is "what was the Judaism of King David, or of his day?" Or are we to argue that King David did not practice Judaism, or that his version of Judaism has been declared passé, invalid. But by who? (Maimonides? Because the Atemple was destroyed?)

4088:

entirely. What you are representing as the "positive" Jewish view of sex for procreation, has been true for Christianity for a long time also. Brundage goes further to discuss sex for pleasure within marriage, but other sources debate this (especially sources which discuss Maimonides and Stoic influence on Judaism). I did not misread the sources, I am very aware of what the article says, and what our current sources say. I'm willing to explain it to you, but

3124:

opinion, while it is the mainstream opinion, if not the only opinion. Adding "including Rabbi Michael Gold" makes it even worse, since he is not linked on Knowledge or otherwise widely know worldwide, so this attribution, instead of contributing to the reliability of the statement, probably even takes away from it, by further limiting the opinion. Which in short brings us back to version one, with the possible addition of one sentence.

3058:(invited by the bot) #1 is ridiculously & horribly over-generalized, taking discussions and sources that apply in specialized contexts and multiplying them by 1000 into statements about entire universes of Judaism and Christianity. #2 (which is much better) suffers a minor version of that problem in a few areas. Whatever is put in should be written with wording that defines the limited scope/ context of the statements. 391: 3708:(poverty, forbearance/chastity, extending adultery to men, its the only Abrahamic religion that doesn't allow divorce, etc.) and as you say, less restrictive in others - but there are other articles where that discussion is more appropriate. Since this is not an article about Christian theology, it is better if we just stick to the academic source - which is about sex in marriage, not restrictions on sex overall. 264: 240: 909: 852: 766: 748: 22: 274: 2127:

Protestanism, like Calvinism, that were pretty sex-hostile. But Martin Luther was (marital) sex-positive. A growing number of Protestant denominations support or perform gay marriage. None has the Catholic church's blanket prohibition of birth control devices or medicines. None has Catholicism's prohibition of divorce. Many are supportive of abortion, which Catholicism views as murder.

2805: 2769: 2621: 776: 3755:

discuss the attitude as much in that chapter. On page 80 he addresses the issue of how sex was viewed in Christianity, and uses phrases like "Augustine's underlying belief in the intrinsic sinfulness of carnal desire ... became a standard premises of Western belief about sexuality during the Middle Ages and beyond." and "Not only was sexual desire a basic and pervasive evil..."

71: 53: 2076:

no less demanding. Usually experts specialize in one field or another. I have never encountered a Bible Scholar who was specialized in both fields. The is not prejudice, it is a fact - these are separate areas of study. Again, I think you should be careful that your expertise does not become disruptive, or lead you to cast aspersions about other editors.

4123:

work from only the Brundage source". I have already shown that the quote from that source is about a different subject. Sorry, Seraphim System, but when you start being civil and stop ignoring the fact, perhaps it will be possible to work with you towards improving this article, but for the time being, you seem to have a WP:IDONTLIKEIT agenda.

3509:

and it speaks only of early Christianity. The rest are cherry-picked media articles where source follows content, that is not the way we are supposed to do things. As the opener of the RfC I think we can revise the RfC to reflect the input from editors to see if we can reach consensus. I do not know if we need to wait 7 days first.

3817:. he is not a notable rabbi, that is not in dispute. I could send the IRS a form, start my own synagogue and start calling myself a Rabbi if I wanted to. I don't need any qualifications or expertise to do this. You have never justified using him as a source, beyond his title as a Rabbi. What it comes down is we have 2318: 3139:

added are precisely relevant to clarifying the distinction raised in your sources - which contrast the Christian view to how rabbis did not feel the need to limit sex for pleasure. This is not clear from your your version. What I added is based on all the sources, including the ones you added yourself.

4153:

With regard to DR, the ongoing RfC is a valid form of DR with respect to what to say here comparing Christian and Jewish views, and both of you should just disengage with each other and allow it to run. If the outcome is toward version 2 then subsequent discussion about that version might make sense.

4087:

The other issue is that you posted an article about contraception - which is entirely off-topic. You need to work from only the Brundage source. The comparison you are making, as it is represented in the majority of academic literature, is with early Christian writers and Gnostics who banned marriage

4043:

Regarding cherry-picking, it does not matter if the results are on the first page of Google.out The statement was originally sourced to only Rabbi Michael Gold (not a well known Rabbi, and you have never shown that he has been cited by any secondary sources - he is primary for his own opinions). All

3869:

Dovid, I think you are not willing to rest unless you "win." But, frankly, I will not support you on this. I think that it is possible to use a word that has a mildly negative connotation (like restrained or restrictive) without having to shove it down anyone's throat. You don't think people will get

3762:

So after denying up and down that it was intended to be negative, and accusing me of making things up without evidence, you are now saying that your entire reason to include this line is to make a negative comparison of Christianity in relation to Judaism, and that you have cherry-picked non-academic

3421:

I have no real problem with such a phrase, although we already have two other alternatives which precede this one: version 1 as what seems to be the consensus version, or version 1 with the addition of the second sentence from version 2 but without its second paragraph. At the same time I agree there

3247:

There is nothing controversial about the different ways two different religions view a certain subject. I am starting to think that the negative relation of Christianity to sex is what you are having a problem with, rather than with the way policies and guidelines of Knowledge are being applied here.

2105:

I added three more sources. The last one is especially interesting, mainly because of the suggestive title. Sit on that! You will of course say that the opinions of Christian can not be used, where he compares with Judaism, since he is not an expert in Judaism. I have already show that argument to be

1942:

That statement is not in the source, and you would need more then one source for it even if it was. There are several different theological schools of Christianity, so there is no way for that statement to be factually accurate or anything other then promoting one religious belief over another, which

1721:

A principle of WP that I much admire is "assume the best". So I'm assuming that this had not occurred to you, you thought you HAD a neutral POV. That the idea that someone might say "I'm a Jew, you agree I am, or assume for the sake of argument I am, but I don't think Judaism and halacha (correct me

1657:

In view of the fact that Judaism is the sum-total of its history and present, I think that even without the title of this article being "History of Judaism and sexuality" this article should not overly stress modern points of view. You seem to want to turn this article into into "Jews and sexuality",

4122:

Seraphim System, you are not being helpful here: "You don't want to use academic sources because they don't support the imprecise and incorrect language you are trying to push", "Your obsession with comparing Christianity and Judaism does not seem NPOV". You try to impose unclear rules: "You need to

4015:

Your obsession with comparing Christianity and Judaism does not seem NPOV. Your argument is basically: Leif Carlson, a minor theologian, uses the world negative so we should change Brundage's wording - this argument is entirely unreasonable. You should not make a comparison at all, if the discussion

3907:

You're wrong, the sources only support that "most early Christian writers" not "Christianity" - this idea you are pushing that because it was most early Christian writers, you are allowed to misrepresent it as "Christianity" is dishonest. Further, I have sources that support using negative, but most

3821:

academic source and the wording should reflect that source - that is what would be appropriate. The point is not to cherry pick sources to prove what you think is the "most important difference" - a negative comparison about Christianity" - what we should do is either reflect the academic source, or

3607:

are absent in Jewish tradition, which holds that since God commanded to 'be fruitful and multiply', sex is a holy deed." I would change the second sentence of version 2 into something like this. I can of course explain the changes I made, but perhaps it is more purposeful to just ask for comments on

3392:

I would agree with that. One of the fundamental barriers is Debresser's claim that this is "basically true for all of Judaism and all of Christianity." There is no evidence for it and he insists he does not need a source - it's very hard to arrive at a good outcome this way. If what I am saying is a

3326:

Sorry, but I can only say what I think is the truth, in a civil way, as I am supposed per standing policies and guidelines. I stand behind my understanding of the issues here: version 1 should be preferred as neutral and concise, while version 2 is the opposite namely accentuating an incorrect or at

3312:

For example, I have asked you several times to stop directing these kinds of comments at me. You still don't understand what it wrong with not honoring that request. You and trolling and yes, I am sensitive, religion is a sensitive topic and you are incapable of not making personal comments. Telling

3262:

The fact that you are actually arguing that the topic of Christianity and sex is non-controversial, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, is why I don't think there is any point in discussing with you. The problem is that you should not introduce the topic of Christianity unless you want to

3138:

The second paragraph is necessary to explain the contrast between the views. This does not make sense without understanding that there was a Stoic influence on the development of early Christianity. I added only two lines about Stoic influence on Christian thought, which is a huge topic. The lines I

2075:

Rabbis are experts in a different field - being an Old Testament scholar requires knowledge of Hebrew and sometimes even older forms of writing. I had a professor in college who was knowledgeable about cuneiform and other ancient writing systems that I don't even know the name of ... Christianity is

1990:

even though it has been pointed out by more than one editor. Some of the comments may have been personal attacks, but the original complaint - that this source is not a good scholarly source about Christian theology is valid. Perhaps this is what you interpreted as a personal attack, but it is clear

1985:

There is no discussion, there are multiple editors who disagree with you about sourcing whose complaints you have either ignored or characterized as "personal attacks against religious jews" - this statement is not adequately sourced and it references "Christianity" by someone who is not clearly not

1682:

Debresser, you're absolutely right I strongly believe there should be an article on Jews and sexuality. The fascinating topic definitely merits an article (and this one isn't it, as you correctly pointed out). I do not have the knowledge to write it. I could perhaps write (assemble reliable sources)

1120:

On the same topic, there are quite a few people who by religious law are unquestionably Jews, who reject Judaism as a personal religion and would probably answer "no" if asked "are you a Jew?". Yet they are unquestionably of Jewish descent and culture, and halakhicly Jews no matter what they said or

958:

I would love to change around the structure of this article. Currently the structure states that some things are forbidden acts in Judaism, while others are okay. I think that if the titles were just the actions themselves then it would be possible for different denominations and sects of Judaism to

4137:

Calling other admins comments baloney because the sources contradict your view is not acceptable and neither are casting aspersions. You have not shown anything. You are resorting to personal attacks here and avoiding the fact that several academic sources that I posted contradict your version, and

3950:

Original Sin is not erotic in nature. You seem to think its significant that you have found some minor media sources that contradict academic sources and this has been an issue from the start. You don't want to use academic sources because they don't support the imprecise and incorrect language you

3776:

Besides that, I have given sources that have shown that what you are saying was not even true about Judaism in the Middle Ages, do you want us to spend more time on that? Probably not, because you've removed those sources too. Was inter-faith marriage allowed? Is it today? Do women consent to these

3508:

adding the source "Jews are better at sex then Christians" and removing the original sin part from the sentence, and decided it could stand on its own without any qualification because of the additional sources. The only one of those sources that is an academic source is University of Chicago Press

3361:

At some point, most people would probably agree that the historical approach of Christianity to sex is, at least, somewhat "restrictive" (to use the language of Brundage). That doesn't mean we can't be very careful in how we approach it. And as Seraphim System says above, it's a long way from there

3298:

Nothing that you just said is true. Do not tell me what I do or do not have a problem with. We learned in 3rd grade to begin paragraphs with topic sentences. It is a fundamental rule of English grammer that you should be familiar with as an editor. It is not subjective, "Jews are better at sex then

1754:

I made this a subsection of the previous section, since I think it is really a continuation of it. As to the question itself, I do not think we need an article "Jews and sexuality", in the sense that we do not need to know the opinion of every Jews dead or alive on the subject of sexuality. That is

1717:

Perhaps you could add to this list. The Rebbe's version of Judaism? My point is that whatever your personal belief is that's fine, that's between you and ha-Shem. But as an editor of Knowledge you have to take a neutral POV. The point I'm making is that by privileging halakhic Judiasm as the sum

999:

I agree. The entire first paragraph (excepting the first sentence, that I fixed) on Homosexuality makes no sense. Of course the prohibition on lesbianism is not from the same source as the prohibition on male relations. Much of the article is unreferenced. The part of emission should start with the

3892:

I don't need to win, but please comment on the issue, not the editor. The sources support "negative", so we don't really have a choice. I forcefully reject your claim regarding the cultural background of editors and its relevance. If we start writing what is pleasing for readers, this project will

1847:

I am not weighing in on the Personal Attacks issue, but the content. If you don't want to fully discuss the issue of original sin, which I agree might be off-topic for this article, you may not want to raise the issue at all. It is not enough to offer one rabbi's interpretation of original sin and

1634:

FYI, although you may know this already, the term "Orthodoxy" was not applied to Judaism until the nineteenth century (though what is called Orthodoxy of course existed before). In the United States in the nineteenth century, Reform Judaism was far and away the predominant form of Judaism. I don't

1582:

What modern views are you referring to that are part of Judaism? There are a few references and external links to non-Orthodox views as well. What more do you want? Please note that Judaism has been what you call Orthodox about ten times longer than that non-Orthodoxy exists. I mean, you must give

1347:

The paragraph that begins "In Judaism" I changed to "In Jewish law", which is all the section goes on to talk about. Judaism and Jewish law are not the same thing. Rabbis from previous centuries, or millenia, do not have the sole authority to say what Judaism is or what Judaism's view of sexuality

4297:

After a young woman marries — often, like the Satmar wife Marcus told me about, to a man she has met and spoken with only once before the wedding — she’s supposed to feel that sex is a blessing, a union full of Shekinah, of God’s light, not just a painful or repellent reproductive chore. Quietly,

4000:

The sources you bring here do not compare Christianity and Judaism, so are not relevant. The third you misinterpreted, not surprisingly. It does not say that Judaism has a negative view of sexuality, and most certainly not that Judaism has a negative view of sexuality compared to Christianity, it

3808:

What I seem to be failing to get across to you is that the statement we are arguing about is meaningless. You say that "Judaism has a positive attitude about sex" - well no, that isn't English. Judaism can't have an attitude about anything, its a noun. So you must mean Jews. It follows from there

3754:

The only reason Brundage uses "restrictive" is because in that chapter of his book he addresses the restrictions religion puts on sexual relations. That is precisely as I interpreted the word "restrictive", and Steven was mistaken to think it didn't carry a legal meaning in this case. He does not

2812:

Hebrew tradition viewed marital sex as a divinely ordained component of human life. Since God wished humans to increase and multiply and since he had endowed their sexual organs with the capacity to produce exquisite pleasure, the rabbis saw no reason to limit the individual's enjoyment of sex...

2776:

2730:

Leif Carlsson, a speaker at the Hönö Conference, wants Christians to come to terms with the faith's negative views on sex and compare them with those found in Judaism, according to a report in Christian newspaper Dagen... Within Judaism, sexuality has always been viewed as something fundamentally

2679:

2628:

2562:

Some theologians, including Rabbi Michael Gold, have argued that the basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is opposed to Christianity.The BBC reported that "Christianity's suspicions of sex as an element of 'the fall' are absent" in Jewish tradition, which holds

2090:

I had such a teacher too, in school. I agree with you. Still, anyone can do research, and you don't have to be a professor in Christianity to research a fairly limited area like "religion and sexuality". According to your logic, only a Christian would be able qualified to make any statement about

1694:

The Judaism of King David, who is the greatest hero of Jewish history, whose star is the icon of Jews/Judaism and is on the Israeli flag. The Tanach supplies the names of eight wives of David, and if memory serves also says he had as many other wives/female sexual partners as he wanted. Some Jews

1615:

You're correct that Judaism has been "what I call Orthodox" (what do you call it?) much longer than non-Orthodoxy. I'm not sure if it's ten times, but it's a big discrepancy. But that's talking about the PAST. This article is, or should be, as I see it, about Judaism in the PRESENT, not as it was

1563:

Seven words, "there are other modern views that disagree", are all the space that is given to non-Orthodox views. Who holds these views, and what they are, is ignored, with a reference to another article. And information is found there. But the rest of the paragraph - 150 words - is all about the

4051:

Please stop showing of that you know the word "cherry picking". I have not changed my point of view, as you falsely claim. You mention "academic sources I have seen that compare Judaism and Christianity", but you have shown none of them here. The language of the sources is precise, and is quoted

3835:

Do you notice that you change arguments every time? Now it is semantics, of all things. I don't think there is anybody who would find it hard to understand the statement "Judaism has a positive attitude about sex", nor do I think it is a problem to say so in English. And if it were a problem, it

3790:

I have no idea what you are accusing me of now with "after denying up and down that it was intended to be negative". There is a difference between saying that Christianity has a negative attitude towards something, or saying that Christianity is something negative. I still feel you are mixing up

1089:

We have to distinguish an empiric-analytical claim about the texts written by Maimonides from a theological claim which would require assent from a community of faith. So, unless someone is prepared to affirm that this claim was made up (and prove it with reliable sources), Knowledge defaults to

3651:

here. It's not a Jewish topic, and while the historical Christian view on sex unquestionably has links to that concept, it is not identical to that concept. In any case, if I could borrow a page from the practices of the US Supreme Court, I would much rather not take the case any farther than I

1797:. That is not recommended on Knowledge. Another issue is that Thomas of Aquinas was a church philosopher, but he didn't invent the idea, and there exist other views on the issue. Lastly, the simpler we keep the statement, the better it is IMHO. After all, this article is not about Christianity. 4198:

intentions are beside the point, except that he is pushing very strongly for only "his version" as he refers to it, even when that version may not be appropriate because of debate in scholarly sources, and the complexity of the topic it introduces. What I think of making the comparison doesn't

3123:

If by "adding context" you mean the second sentence of the first paragraph in version 2, then I might agree with that. The second paragraph however is a gross WP:UNDUE violation, in its entirety. There is also something very wrong with "Some theologians". That sounds as though it is a minority

1553:

The traditional view is that the Torah forbids all anal intercourse between two males, and this is the view of Orthodoxy; there are other modern views that disagree. The source of this prohibition is a verse from the Book of Leviticus: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is

2472:

Now the article quotes at least three Christians, but only in so far as they speak about the views of the Hebrew Bible. If you allow me some original research, the reason why Kwee and Hoover refer to the Hebrew Bible is that in the New Testament there is no mention of masturbation or anything

3987:- there are more...a few on Maimonides from OUP and gBooks - I don't really think having this sentence in the article the way it is adds anything necessary to the article. It also seems to be contradicted by a significant number of high-quality sources. Maybe it would be best to take it out. 3425:

A problem here is that Seraphim System refuses to accept that this difference is generally true for all of Christianity and Judaism. For that simple reason, the sources do not differentiate between denominations, but rather use a general statement, much like this article. Obviously there are

2126:

I'm the one who made the change to Catholicism, I've restored it, and I'm going to defend it. To identify the Catholic (including St. Thomas) tradition with the Christian tradition is just as wrong as identifying Orthodox Judaism with Judaism. If you go back, sure, there are some versions of

864: 3876:

is because the cultural background of the majority of users (or uses) on this wiki is at least vaguely Christian. The comparison is absolutely not essential to the topic of the page itself. So if you really can't get past this, then I'm going to suggest taking it out and keeping it out.

1725:

What I will ask of you is similarly to assume the best of me, that I believe it is my responsibility as a Jew and as a WP editor to raise this question. And not attribute it to my own sexual behavior, or interests, which, whatever their vices or their virtues, are totally irrelevant.

3758:

In short, 2 sources use "negative", 1 source implies negative" and Brundage says it elsewhere because that was not the subject of the chapter. As I said above, the most important difference between Judaism and Christianity is in the positive-negative attitude, not restrictiveness.

3941:

I am not, I am referring to academic sources that are available on Google books. There are several. The improper use of religious sources template and neutrality templates have been on this page for years. I don't need to post sources, I haven't proposed any language change to

4154:

but if it is 1 or neither then there is no point to this. Some of the things SeraphimSystem has brought up that are just about Jewish attitudes toward sexuality could be incorporated in the article, without the compare/contrast aspect. That would be a different discussion.

3975:

says Judaism contains both positive and negative elements, but encourages sexual activity in marriages for procreation (this is true for Christianity also, though you have chosen to completely obscure the issue by talking about early Christian writers who encouraged celibacy)

2473:

resembling it, apart from a word which is no longer translated to mean "masturbators" and Bible scholars agree that it does not mean that. So the only part of the Christian Bible which could be eventually construed as saying something about masturbation is the Hebrew Bible.

1422:

Agree. By the way, I had a look at your userpage, and your website (now on the Wayback machine). It seems you could also be accused of having a strong personal POV that shall remain unnamed. So let's do without all that and just try to edit, applying the Knowledge pillar of

1986:

qualified to discuss Christian doctrine - a Rabbi is not necessarily an expert in New Testament scholarship or Christian doctrine. There is no consensus here to justify inclusion, there is only your unwillingness to accept that this statement is not sufficiently sourced or

3105:

Perhaps the statement comparing it to Christianty is undue and should be removed entirely but adding context to it is not. It makes a statement about religious beliefs. Adding context to a statement that is already in an article based on a widely-cited source is not undue

2578:

could submit their bodily impulses to the "rational will". James A. Brundage points out that in Jewish tradition rabbis did not think enjoyment of sex needed to be restricted because God has given humans the capacity to "produce exquisite pleasure" through sexual acts.

2319:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oe244K9f7lEJ:h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl%3Ftrx%3Dvx%26list%3DH-Judaic%26month%3D0211%26week%3Dd%26msg%3DQd%252BxlvJNt9Pdyte46rHffQ%26user%3D%26pw%3D+%22zera+levatala%22&cd=39&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

2250:

Once again you're equating religion with theology. That theology changes slowly, is irrelevant. Religions can change quickly. The "theory of original sin" hasn't changed much, but that's not the point. The point is that it is nowhere as widespread as it used to be.

4309:"menstrual blood is considered ritually unclean" "couples may be confused as to the specific focus of the prohibition, act or object" "there's no point to asking me this since my wife doesn't do anything with me - even when she can! (this was clearly a joke...)" 3809:

that you mean all Jews have the same positive attitude about sex. This is obviously not true - there have been a flood of reports about how unhealthy the attitude is in some of these communities, especially for women and those who are vulnerable (I cited a few

3451:

for all (most?) of Christianity. The historical point is correct, and for the purpose of this article, that's more than sufficient. In a world where there are thousands of denominations of Christianity, I think you'd really need sources to support such a claim

2845:) 19:49, 15 May 2017 (UTC) The opposition of Seraphim System to version 1 is based on their personal believes and interpretations only, as shown in the section below, and those should not influence the clear policies and guidelines of how we work on Knowledge. 3912:

because his work is both primary and has not been cited, and Leif Carlsson. It could also address the pressure it puts on women when they are expected to enjoy sex and they don't. The view of this as positive is overwhelmingly a male (misogynistic) view.

3404:- there are thousands of denominations of Christianity - but what Debresser is calling a "mainstream" view is American Evangelism - even though his sources are discussing Catholicism, and early Christianity. The mainstream view in America is focused on sex 3635:

there. But you and I both tend to see the idea of "restriction" through a religious-legal lens, because Halachic Judaism is a religious-legal system. However, I was borrowing language from Brundage, which is the most reliable of the four sources from a

3354:

For the majority of users (or at least uses) of this encyclopedia, the background context for any discussion of religion and sexuality is that of Christianity. Therefore a mention of that is probably appropriate, though what that looks like is far from

3276:

So you actually prove my point, that you have a probelem with the attitude of Christianity towards sex. You consider it to create a negative opinion about Christianity. That is, however, completely subjective, and should not be used as an argument for

2832:

Reasons: it represent the subject concise and objectively, while version 2 has problems with both those issues: it creates a false impression as though there are those who would disagree with the basic difference between the religions, and it violates

4100:

in academic sources, I think this statement should most properly be removed entirely. We are representing something controversial as a simple fact based mostly on weak sources, where there is significant debate about these issues in academic sources.

2012:- is POV and OR. That is not a consensus discussion, for a consensus discussion you need sources. If you have better sources then this quote, which you are cherry picking to insert your own POV into the article then I am willing to discuss balancing. 3721:

I think I'd prefer to stick to Brundage's language exactly, just because that's the language he chose. That said, I think "restrained" is still supported by the source, if we should decide it's better to use a word with a less juridical overtone.

3164:

This is a pretty minor reason, it doesnt justify removing an expansion of a one-sentence paragraph. Most of the sources used for the expansion were already cited, and not added by me. I don't object to revising the wording of the first sentence

2953:: A reference to Michael Gold works as a reliable source (in conjunction with the other sources used to establish this point). However, there is no indication that Michael Gold, himself, is notable. The second version makes it sound like this is 2881:

The first version comes across as denigrating to Christianity. If the issue is raised the context should be briefly explained (including "be fruitful and multiply") - the additions on Christianity are brief, only what is needed to maintain NPOV.

2192:

Theology tends to change only slowly. As it should, by the way. So I have to seriously doubt the implication that the theory of original sin has changed much recently. If you can show me wrong, I'd be interesting in reading up about the subject.

545: 3422:

is no reason to make it sound as though the attitudes of Judaism and Christianity are juxtaposed, while in truth they are simply different, and that is expressed better in this proposal. We could still add that second sentence, by the way.

1453:

It's fine with me if you name my alleged personal POV. You already referred to it. I _want_ my Web site on the Wayback machine. Are you trying to frighten or humiliate me? You might follow your own advice about Avoiding personal remarks.

2035:

Why you assume that rabbis can not be knowledgeable about Christianity, or in more general term, certain areas of other religions, is something I don't understand. Possibly more an expression of some prejudice of yours than of anything

1811:

I never had any intention of attacking anyone, I just asserted that a Christian saint would know more about his religion than someone who is not a member of that particular religion ( in this case a Jew); it is a reasonable assertion,

3202:

think that the phrase "opposed to Christianity" (in both versions) doesn't really correctly capture the flavor of what anyone is trying to say here, and if anything makes this far more combative than it needs to be. I'd recommend (in

1564:

Orthodox view. And it isn't true that 150 words for the Orthodox and 7 words for everybody else fairly represents the interests of Jews. That isn't the proportions of Orthodox versus non-Orthodox people within the Jewish community.

913: 3926:

You are wrong, source 1 says "Christianity", source 2 says "Christian writers" and further on uses "Western belief", source 3 says "Christianity", source 4 says "Christians". And I am not pushing anything, it's all in the sources.

3020:

The basic Jewish attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage differs from that taken by Christianity. Mainstream rabbinical thought tends to view sexuality positively, provided it remains within marriage and within certain

3341:

This is getting way too personal and isn't solving the problem. So let me try to lay out a couple of stipulations, and then try to propose a solution, rather than having you guys continue to hurl slings and arrows at each other:

1722:

again if I haven't got it precisely right) are the same thing". You're right and I'm wrong? According to whom? And what gives he/she/them the right to make that decision? Gee, this is getting philosophical. I guess that's good.

2091:"Christianity and sexuality", only a Muslim about "Islam and sexuality", only a Buddhist about "Buddhism and sexuality", and no interfaith discipline like "religion and sexuality" could ever exist. That is obviously not true. 2837:, since this article is not about Christianity, which it elaborates upon far too much. I'd also like to add that version 1 is very close to the version which has been in this article since its creation in 2010 till recently. 2456:

Debresser claims to have seen a consensus here that says we shouldn't go into the details of the Christian view s on sexuality because this is not a Christian article, but I don't see the consensus he speaks of. Where is it?

2159:

Adding a primary source is never a good idea, especially when that source is from the Middle Ages. All the more so, since the source is indeed Catholic, so can shed no light on the issue in other Christian denominations.

1924:." In that version the "original sin" part is conveniently located at the end of the sentence and can easily be removed, leaving "The basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is opposed to 3777:

marriages? - why don't we include some viewpoints from women also? Why don't you just not make this comparison at all - it's clear from what you are saying that this does not- really add anything worthy to this article.

1970:

As to your claim of WP:SYNTH. The first part of the sentence is in the article, and I event quoted it in the reference template. The second part isn't, which is why I asked you here if that is the part you would remove.

1683:

for "Jews and sexuality in the United States", but don't think that would be a valid stand-alone article (and it would be a lot of work, and I've got plenty of other things, arguably more important things, to work on).

2261:

Your claim that I should not have restored Catholicism because of talk page discussion is self-serving. The opposition is from you and only you. No one on the talk page supports you. You're the one being disruptive.

4215:

Seraphim System As a matter of fact, you can see for yourself that I have been open for all kinds of proposals during this discussion, both yours and Steven's. I don't think it is fair to say that I am pushing for

2254:

I don't know if this is typical of a Haredi rabbi (not of some types of rabbis, for sure), but you constantly look at written sources from long ago, and all but ignore what is going on today. Lack of neutral POV.

4410:

Hello editors, I added the sections: Forbidden relations in Judaism, Consent in marriage in Judaism, and Sexual Pleasure. This is my first time editing a Wiki page so any kind of feedback would be appreciated.

689: 3640:

perspective. And Brundage was looking at things from a more sociological perspective: "...much more restrictive view of the role of sex in human life." That's not a legal comment, it's a sociological comment.

3484:

OK. Since I'm working on English Knowledge less these days, I don't remember: Since a formal RfC was opened, do we need to let it ride out seven days before we can close it, or can we come to a consensus now?

2756:

Judaism has had a largely positive attitude to sex since God commanded his people to 'be fruitful and multiply' (Genesis I:28; 9:1). Christianity's suspicions of sex as an element of 'the fall' are absent.

2654:

1738:

All: I'm inclined to think that the balance in the other article is (qualitatively) reasonable. But if that's to be done here, someone has to write it. It's not something I have enough expertise to write.

3675:

I can live without a second sentence. From my point of view that was more a compromise. Although I like the part of sex being a holy deed in Judaism, which on the other hand would really need a source in

1686:

But THIS article is about Judaism and sexuality. I think there's pretty much a consensus about what "sexuality" is. Not about how people should ideally behave sexually, but about what human sexuality is.

1512:

As long as this article goes on to talk about the view of Judaism and ONLY quotes Jewish law as the sum total of Judaism, it does not have neutral POV. This is not a neutral POV sentence, from the intro:

3656:"The basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is different from that of Christianity, which historically has had a more restrictive view of the role of sex in human life." 3529:

If there is consensus, we can close the Rfc. I want to make it clear, that I would like to see the consensus worked out here in detail, without any boy-scout edits to the article at a too early stage.

1995:

Christian doctrine it is referring to or even which Christianity it is referring to - or which Judaism. Any genuine discussion would bring new sources to bear on the issue, and you have not done that.

1367:

in this regards. It is interesting how quick editors are to ascribe the fact that I disagree with them to me being religious. Actually, that fits well with the present anti-religion climate in America.

3751:

Two other sources use the word "negative". The BBC source uses "positive" in relation to Judaism, and thereby implies "negative" in relation to Christianity, as also implied by the term "the fall".

2923:

with the discussion of it here, which is bad meta-editing. the discussion of christianity and sexuality in Version 2 is also out of SYNC with the content we have about Christianity and sexuality (

4072:

Your claim that I am misinterpreting a source that says Judaism and Christianity have negative attitudes about sex (as compared to ancient Hebrew tradition) is not only laughable, it is dishonest

3327:

least not mainstream point of view as result of an effort to rectify a perceived but non-existing insult to Christianity and gross undue attention to the issue of Christianity in this article.

1635:

know about other countries. In the United States, Orthodoxy did not have a significant presence until the arrival of the Ashkenazi from central Europe toward the end of the nineteenth century.

3207:

case) "differs from that of Christianity". If someone feels the BBC statement from version 2 needs to be added into version 1 I could live with that, though I personally think it unnecessary.

555: 3179:

Making a majority point of view, or even the only point of view, sound like a minority one, that is a serious problem. There are no one-sentence paragraphs in version 2, so what do you mean?

4489: 3839:

Cherry-picking is another of those empty words you use, like WP:BOOMERANG, because I already replied and told you that all my sources are from the first page on Google search. It seems that

3086:?) that version 1 would sound denigrating towards Christianity. Version 1 sounds perfectly neutral and matter-of-factly. Regardless, that perceived non-issue can not justify a violation of 3456:. And since this article is about Judaism, that wouldn't even be appropriate here. Since both of you seem to be agreeable to my suggestion, why don't we go with that and be done with it? 1325:

As far as discussion, I've said all I care to as of now. I'm not going to go over with you what I wrote sentence by sentence. The WP concept is that _others_ might add to the discussion.

471: 4255: 4199:

matter, there are conflicting secondary sources. We don't just pick sources that support language we are trying to insert, we need to summarize the academic sources that are available.

3908:

of the current sources need to be removed for reasons that have already been explained. BBC because it is not historical and we have changed the wording, Rabbi Michael Gold because for

2042:

And you are 180 degrees wrong about something else: I happen to be the one who sourced this statement to begin with, after it was in the article for a long tie, but without a source.

4479: 1241:

is no virtue; there is an informal but strong expectation that a man, and especially a community leader, should have a wife. Lovemaking on the Sabbath is appropriate and commendable.

1117:(an Orthodox rabbi who has written on sexuality). It's all Orthodox. There are millions who call themselves Jews who reject halakha partially or totally. Our views deserve inclusion. 222: 212: 3526:(feel free to create it if it doesn't exist). I mean, the source simply uses the provocative title to attract viewers, although the article is quite serious, as a matter of fact. 4001:

only says that there are negative elements in Judaisms relation to sexuality. Nothing in that statement contradicts or is contradicted by any of the other sources or version 1.

2326: 4484: 4474: 1704:

Halakhic Judaism. But then there is more than one version of halakha, isn't there. At least the WP article says so. Ashkenazic halacha, Sephardic halakha, Mizrahi halakha, etc.

456: 4469: 3608:

this proposal, so: opinions? One thing I like about it, is that it adds a statement about Judaism, which is important in this article, and helps to avoid the WP:UNDUE issue.

3284:. We introduce it, and link to the article about Christianity and sex, and that is all we need to do here. That is what all Knowledge articles do with issues on other pages. 572: 417: 111: 3447:

wants to accept that this difference is "generally true for all of Christianity and Judaism". In fact, I think it's beside the point whether or not this is generally true

657: 188: 4266:

is not possible to work on it because you are dishonest. lyn-orthodox-jews-child-abuse-cover-up-feature Silence and self-rule: Brooklyn's Orthodox child abuse cover-up

4499: 4212:

I would have no problem with going to WP:RS while this Rfc is ongoing. I don't really see the issue, but I suppose that is the reason for going to a noticeboard. :)

4070:

The only one of your sources that is acceptable is Brundage, your use of other minor and undue sources is only to insist that we change the language Brundage uses.

334: 117: 3470:

Because somebody had to open an Rfc here... Had they discussed first and edited later, they would have found compromise is never far away with reasonable editors.

3371:

The basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is different from that of Christianity, which historically has had a more restrictive

1897:

The basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is opposed to the Christian theory of original sin, which does not view sex favorably.

1400:

I couldn't agree more that Judaism is more than Jewish law. I'm not sure we mean the same thing by Jewish law. I would say the Shulchan Aruch contains Jewish law.

2398: 2394: 2380: 564: 4016:

of that comparison is off-topic. Since this article is not about comparing Judaism and Christianity, most likely its best if this statement is removed entirely.

4260: 486: 1484:

The opposite. I am saying that we should not pay attention to perceived personal points of view, and just discuss the matter at hand as objectively as we can.

4514: 4464: 822: 642: 179: 140: 4092:

and direct your comments towards content. I have alreay asked you several times to stop casting aspersions about my behavior, like your recent comment that

3522:

The sources are not cherry-picked. A simple Google search yielded those results. Regarding the "Jews are better at sex than Christians" source, please see

627: 411: 1605:, non-Orthodox views (including Conservative) are given 2700 words, and Orthodox is given 2500. I counted them using WordPerfect. That's a better balance. 4270: 3843:

are cherry-picking, looking for recent controversies and scandals, which per definition will have little if any lasting effect on Judaism as a religion.

606: 589: 921: 884: 87: 4494: 1533:

It implies that Judaism's views on the topic are known by looking at the Tanakh and rabbinic literature, AND NOTHING MORE. I call that not neutral.

828: 320: 1295:

I left the sentence "...sexuality is viewed as having both positive and negative potential...", contrary to your post above that says I removed it.

344: 478: 2327:

https://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-Judaic&month=0211&week=d&msg=Qd+xlvJNt9Pdyte46rHffQ&user=&pw=

1852:

because it states an opinion as a fact. The doctrine of original sin is largely unrelated to sexuality, my copy of the Catholic Encyclopedia (

4509: 1774:

Surely he knows more about Christian beliefs than a Jewish rabbi right? I'll just have to find a secondary source that states his statements.

2556:

The basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is opposed to Christianity, which does not view sex favorably.

4504: 4275: 2458: 1827: 1813: 1775: 78: 58: 3763:

sources in order to do it and want us to disregard the only academic source provided for this comparison? Did I understand you correctly?

1690:

My concern is "what Judaism is this article discussing"? Jews by anyone's definition disagree about what Judaism is. It could perhaps be:

1363:

Well, there you have it. Your opinion is correct, and mine is just religious POV. Thank you for clarifying that. I'd like to refer you to

3299:

Christians" is the source that you added when I raised my concerns. Making comments about my beliefs on that is invasive and disgusting.

581: 4376:

I added a link at the proper point, and also "demoted" the balancing sources section so that it is considered part of this discussion.

3794:

Your second paragraph sounds like a rant. If there is any specific question or issue you want to raise, please do so in a calm manner.

798: 1000:

prohibition against arousing the libido, which is the source prohibition, then go to directly causing emission. Should this be RfD'd?

3679:

Let me think about what you are saying the usage of the word regarding "restrictive", and see what other editors here say about it.

2376:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

2032:

To the contrary. The text is on purpose general, because the statement is true for basically all of Judaism and all of Christianity.

495: 296: 3426:

exceptions, but in general it is definitely true, and I fail to understand what issue Seraphim System has with that sourced fact.

1364: 1343:

Another reversion by user:debresser (he is imposing here his own view, Haredi Judaism; he identifies as Haredi on his user page)

2356: 1658:

and that is also wrong: this article is about the point of view of Judaism as a religion, not about the points of view of Jews.

4285: 3893:

have lost all value. By the way, we can always leave the words "not favorably" as in version 1, which is less black-and-white.

636: 622: 2322: 3985:

the negative attitudes toward sexuality that appeared in Christianity and Judaism were not products of ancient Hebrew culture

3980:

find negative attitudes about sexual desire in those with religious beliefs, particularly Roman Catholics and Orthodox jews.

2927:

for example) which only adds to the problems of Knowledge saying different things about the same topic in different places.

2919:

where the views are compared and contrasted. I'll also note that the discussion of Judaism and sexuality there is all out of

2497: 912:

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available

1186: 3090:(a quantitatively large violation IMHO in this case) and certainly can not be a reason to reflect sources in a POV manner. 2274:

I have no idea what you are talking about. I will consider reporting you for persistent personal attacks on me as a rabbi.

4401:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

1916:, in which the sentence reads "The basic Jewish positive attitude towards sex and sexuality within marriage is opposed to 789: 753: 3652:

absolutely must in order to make my point. And I don't think we need to touch that concept here. It's sufficient to say:

3402:

in the Bible, the “flesh” that is spoken of disparagingly is not the human body but human nature in rebellion against God

1204:

I can agree with your first point, but you are wrong on the second, for the simple reason that this article is not about

2527: 2441: 2332: 2130:

The article is, from its title, not about the history of these questions, except as background. It's about the present.

649: 403: 287: 245: 33: 2366: 4445: 1963:

Please do not edit the page while this is being actively discussed. That is rude, and ignores the Knowledge pillar of

541: 465: 2693: 2596: 2258:

Like when you accused me of an ad hominem attack, then went on to make a more inflammatory one yourself. Against me.

2743: 2641: 797:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join 3037:- omit reference to Christianity altogether, this is too simplistic and poorly sourced for such a complex subject. 2863: 1826:

If there exist other views on the issue, shouldn't we just put "certain christian views" instead of "Christianity."

1234: 1072: 1028: 615: 505: 1718:

total of what Judaism is (please correct me if that's not precisely right), you are not displaying a neutral POV.

1602: 2935:) 21:32, 15 May 2017 (UTC) (NB - fine with the alt version of 1 presented by DES below as well, as a 2nd choice 2397:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

3280:"you should not introduce the topic of Christianity unless you want to discuss it" is diametrically opposed to 2462: 2350: 1831: 1817: 1779: 448: 3523: 2574:. Clement wrote that "moral self-restraint is common to all human beings who have chosen it." Under this view 21: 4323:

What are these sources supposed to come and balance? Please explain why you added these external links here.

2432: 2310: 872: 533: 440: 2924: 2916: 2566:

Christian writers developed more restrictive views of sex then rabbis. Early Christian writers, including

2153: 171: 4290: 4182:

Would it be inappropriate to post on RS/N about Rabbi Michael Gold as a source while the RfC is running?

3971:

says Judaism was also influenced by Stoicism toward a more "negative" view of sex, even within marriage.

3348:

For this purpose, "differs from that of Christianity" is more appropriate than "opposed to Christianity".

4093: 4053: 3083: 2866:

deal with reasons. All we need in this article is that Judaism views sex differently than Christianity.

2567: 2416:

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

2404: 2302: 876: 674: 598: 39: 4430:

I'd like to add more to the consent section with mentions of biblical literatures that give examples.

2309:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 4433: 4416: 4338: 4310: 4200: 4183: 4139: 4102: 4075: 4017: 3988: 3952: 3914: 3823: 3778: 3764: 3737: 3709: 3510: 3444: 3409: 3314: 3300: 3264: 3235: 3166: 3140: 3107: 2900: 2883: 2870: 2541: 2478: 2077: 2013: 1996: 1944: 1900: 1865: 1099: 1080: 1062: 1044: 970: 165: 155: 134: 4381: 4355: 4328: 4225: 4173: 4128: 4061: 4006: 3946:'s version, and you haven't proposed a source that justifies using the language you are proposing. 3932: 3898: 3882: 3848: 3799: 3727: 3684: 3665: 3613: 3585: 3534: 3490: 3475: 3461: 3431: 3383: 3332: 3289: 3253: 3212: 3184: 3129: 3095: 3067: 2999: 2980: 2850: 2842: 2279: 2198: 2165: 2111: 2096: 2047: 1976: 1964: 1933: 1886: 1802: 1760: 1744: 1663: 1588: 1489: 1432: 1424: 1383: 1303: 1267: 1237:, Judaism views sexuality positively, a gift from God that is by no means limited to reproduction. 1217: 949: 295:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

187:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

86:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

3046: 3027: 2344: 2267: 2183: 2178:

It is not true that "virtually all Christian denominations have an 'issue' with sex". Not today.

2138: 2027: 1958: 1731: 1640: 1569: 1538: 1459: 1405: 1353: 1330: 1285: 1252: 1194: 929: 892: 855:

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between

2401:

before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

1031:

who stated what Maimonides has written. A direct reference to Maimonides' work is prohibited by

985: 3198:

I really don't think we need to go into any great detail about Christianity at all here. But I

2813:

Christian writers began nto express much more rstrictive view of the role of sex in human life.

2777:

Christian writers began nto express much more rstrictive view of the role of sex in human life.

2629:

Christian writers began nto express much more rstrictive view of the role of sex in human life.

2417: 2962: 1877:@Seraphim System So you'd propose to remove "due to a belief that it has been contaminated by 1794: 1280:

The talk page is the WP designated place for discussions of an article and how to improve it.

1126: 1036: 1024: 964: 521: 426: 3736:

I don't have an objection to either choice, but leaning towards the source language as well.

2705:

Judaism rejected the negative teachings about sex that later became prevalent in Christianity

2608:

Judaism rejected the negative teachings about sex that later became prevalent in Christianity

2357:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110716083703/http://www.jofa.org/pdf/uploaded/1518-OWUK0769.pdf

1262:

Yep. And why did you decide to write about this here? By the way, I left that last sentence.

4280: 4159: 2940: 2932: 2010:

Since virtually all denominations of Christianity have "an issue" with sex, see original sin

1316:

You removed everything that I wrote. The words you quote are not by me and antedate my edit.

1054: 868: 537: 2424: 2323:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121229104304/http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx

2223:

This discussion is closed. It should not have been started here. Please do not restore it.

2039:

You are wrong. A talkpage is not an article. I do not have to source everything I say here.

1899:

sourced only to Rabbi Gold, I don't see the "contaminated by" line in the current article.

1523:

Sexuality is the subject of many narratives and laws in the Tanakh and rabbinic literature.

4441: 4412: 3909: 3505:- sourced to a doctrinally sealed Catholic encyclopedia - after which he made this change 3281: 3087: 2867: 2834: 2474: 1134: 1114: 1095: 1076: 1058: 1040: 1003:

P.S. I disagree with the banner. There is no list of references, just some external links.

989: 709: 683: 517: 501: 184: 984:

This article is a mess, and it would probably be best to delete it and start over again.

4265: 4377: 4351: 4324: 4221: 4195: 4169: 4124: 4057: 4038: 4002: 3943: 3928: 3894: 3878: 3844: 3795: 3723: 3701: 3680: 3661: 3609: 3581: 3530: 3486: 3471: 3457: 3440: 3427: 3379: 3328: 3285: 3249: 3248:

Please notice that the word "negative" is not applied to Christianity in this article.

3231: 3225: 3208: 3180: 3125: 3091: 2995: 2976: 2920: 2846: 2838: 2383:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2275: 2228: 2194: 2161: 2107: 2092: 2043: 1987: 1972: 1929: 1882: 1849: 1842: 1798: 1756: 1740: 1659: 1584: 1485: 1428: 1379: 1299: 1263: 1213: 1142: 1008: 945: 781: 666: 390: 326: 83: 4298:

rabbis refer struggling wives to Marcus’s care. Her task is to instill desire in them.

2423:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

1920:, which does not view sex favorably, due to a belief that it has been contaminated by 1244:

In Jewish law , sexuality is viewed as having both positive and negative potential...

4458: 4337:

I reference them in my comment above but I don't want to clutter the RfC discussion.

4261:

Leading Ultra-Orthodox Group, Agudath Israel, Insists Abuse Claims Go To Rabbis First

3042: 3024: 2360: 2333:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110716083639/http://www.jofa.org/pdf/Batch%201/0092.pdf

2263: 2179: 2134: 1790: 1727: 1636: 1565: 1534: 1455: 1401: 1396:

So I'm influenced, I guess, by the alleged anti-religious climate in America. Touché.

1349: 1326: 1281: 1248: 1190: 1130: 1122: 1091: 925: 888: 529: 525: 279: 2367:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100707115712/http://www.yoatzot.org/article.php?id=121

3814: 3648: 3637: 3600: 3159: 3023:". Less emphasis on Christian views, which are properly handled in other articles. 2958: 2149: 1925: 1921: 1917: 1878: 1178: 1162: 1154: 1146: 1032: 960: 513: 3398: 1189:. This is a simcha (joy), not a shonda (disgrace), and needs treatment somewhere. 3981: 3977: 3972: 3968: 3947: 3019: 4449: 4420: 4385: 4359: 4345: 4332: 4317: 4229: 4207: 4190: 4177: 4163: 4155: 4146: 4132: 4109: 4082: 4065: 4045: 4024: 4010: 3995: 3959: 3936: 3921: 3902: 3886: 3852: 3830: 3803: 3785: 3771: 3744: 3731: 3716: 3688: 3669: 3617: 3604: 3589: 3538: 3517: 3494: 3479: 3465: 3435: 3416: 3394: 3387: 3336: 3321: 3307: 3293: 3271: 3257: 3242: 3216: 3188: 3173: 3147: 3133: 3114: 3099: 3071: 3050: 3029: 3003: 2984: 2966: 2944: 2936: 2928: 2907: 2890: 2872: 2854: 2548: 2534: 2482: 2466: 2446: 2390: 2283: 2232: 2202: 2187: 2169: 2148:

Since virtually all denominations of Christianity have "an issue" with sex, see

2142: 2115: 2100: 2084: 2051: 2020: 2003: 1980: 1951: 1937: 1928:". Because that fact is IMHO relevant and important, and shouldn't be left out. 1907: 1890: 1872: 1835: 1821: 1806: 1783: 1764: 1748: 1667: 1644: 1592: 1573: 1542: 1493: 1463: 1436: 1409: 1387: 1357: 1334: 1307: 1289: 1271: 1256: 1221: 1198: 1170: 1158: 1150: 1103: 1084: 1066: 1048: 1012: 993: 974: 953: 933: 908: 896: 851: 546:

Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran

4437: 3039:

btw, I think "as opposed to" not "is opposed to" is meant ie contrasting with

2575: 2389:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 1378:

that has a view of sexuality. "Judaism" is a lot more than just "Jewish law".

1174: 1166: 771: 717: 509: 269: 161: 4096:. That kind of comment does not help us reach consensus. Given the amount of 2336: 3822:

if it is not necessary or too complex for this article, remove it entirely.

2370: 2351:

http://www.jewishpress.com/uploadedimages/stdimage/june%202008%20edition.pdf

2224: 1004: 713: 263: 239: 3627:

Your comment there is probably why I intuitively preferred to use the word

765: 747: 436: 432: 4304:

Identity Conflict in Modern Orthodox Judaism and the Laws of Family Purity

4256:

Leading US rabbi says that there is no such thing as rape within marriage

2915:- omit reference to Christianity altogether. We have a whole article on 2717: 2666: 2571: 1238: 4303: 1138: 1121:

did. Among them are many sexual innovators and radicals: among others,

794: 549: 292: 3499:

The history of that phrase was that it first mentioned original sin

2957:

an idea invented by Michael Gold, rather than the widely held view.

1182: 690:

Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People

2133:

If this is reverted again I plan to request outside intervention.

70: 52: 3660:

That makes the point adequately for the purpose of this article.

2990:

The above holds if stays in, but at this point I think we should

1678:

This article is about Judaism and sexuality. But what is Judaism?

2540:

Which of these two versions should be included in the article:

1713:

Judaism as it is defined by the Progressive Movement in Israel?

1228:

Lead-in I wrote deleted by user:Debresser as "personal opinion"

329:

in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.

325:

This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the

15: 2563:

that God commanded his people to "be fruitful and multiply."

3870:

the idea if you say "restrained" or "restrictive"? Really?

1793:, please. Issue one I have with this edit is that it uses a 1181:. (Who could forget her?) See "The Jewish Masters of Porn", 1707:

Halacha as defined by the chief rabbinate of Israel in 2015

2313:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

1625:

The article is not "The History of Judaism and Sexuality".

3506: 3503: 3500: 2306: 1913: 379: 374: 369: 364: 903:

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

846:

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

4286:

Rabbi and Educator arrested on Rape of Minor Charges

4271:

Child Abuse Allegations Plague the Hasidic Community

3408:

marriage and homosexuality - not sex in a marriage.

2496:

The following discussion is an archived record of a

793:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 472:

Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005

291:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 183:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 82:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2506:

No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2393:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2156:, the previous, stable version should be preferred. 1710:

Judaism as defined by the very numerous Reform Jews

2807:Law, Sex, and Christian Society in Medieval Europe 2771:Law, Sex, and Christian Society in Medieval Europe 2623:Law, Sex, and Christian Society in Medieval Europe 2361:http://www.jofa.org/pdf/uploaded/1518-OWUK0769.pdf 1374:doesn't have a view of sexuality. It is precisely 827:This article has not yet received a rating on the 556:Articles needing translation from Hebrew Knowledge 116:This article has not yet received a rating on the 4490:C-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings 2718:"Jews better at sex than Christians: theologian" 2667:"Jews better at sex than Christians: theologian" 1370:The truth is, your edit was plain wrong. Jewish 3810: 3443:, I think it's beside the point whether or not 1547:Here's another example of lack of neutral POV: 4480:Low-importance Sexology and sexuality articles 3872:Remember that the only reason to include this 3359:Stipulation (shakiest, but I'm going with it): 2379:This message was posted before February 2018. 4052:above for each of them. This is just one big 2509:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 8: 3082:I disagree with the unexplained statement (= 643:Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries 197:Knowledge:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality 4485:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality articles 4475:Start-Class Sexology and sexuality articles 2694:"The Purpose and Meaning of Sex in Judaism" 2597:"The Purpose and Meaning of Sex in Judaism" 1113:Thiss article reads like it was written by 200:Template:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality 19: 4470:Unknown-importance Jewish culture articles 4431: 2337:http://www.jofa.org/pdf/Batch%201/0092.pdf 2239:The following discussion has been closed. 2219: 968: 742: 573:Israel articles missing geocoordinate data 457:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration 418:Unknown-importance Israel-related articles 398:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 352: 234: 129: 47: 2371:http://www.yoatzot.org/article.php?id=121 2301:I have just modified 4 external links on 1298:So discuss! You just posted a statement. 922:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 885:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 658:Knowledge requested photographs in Israel 4281:Sexual abuse: Report to police or rabbi? 1848:sexuality. The way it is written is not 1701:Judaism as defined by the Shulchan Aruch 1583:the various opinions their rightful do. 2587: 2570:, were influenced by the philosophy of 1991:from the quote which does not identify 920:Above undated message substituted from 883:Above undated message substituted from 744: 236: 131: 49: 4500:Mid-importance Israel-related articles 4090:you need to stop the personal comments 3984: 3502:and this was removed after my comment 3401: 2975:(but see a comment on an edit below). 2810:. University of Chicago Press. p. 74. 2774:. University of Chicago Press. p. 74. 2626:. University of Chicago Press. p. 74. 2009: 1896: 1187:Category:Jewish American pornographers 3014:(as per Jytdog above), or a modified 2516:exclude the reference to Christianity 959:express their views on the subjects. 7: 787:This article is within the scope of 285:This article is within the scope of 177:This article is within the scope of 96:Knowledge:WikiProject Jewish culture 76:This article is within the scope of 4515:Unknown-importance Judaism articles 4465:Start-Class Jewish culture articles 2154:Religion_and_sexuality#Christianity 1698:Judaism as defined by the Sanhedrin 1109:Non-halakhic (non-Orthodox) Judaism 944:Translated from Hebrew Knowledge -- 487:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel 99:Template:WikiProject Jewish culture 38:It is of interest to the following 3393:minority view would it be printed 860: 856: 628:Knowledge requested maps in Israel 412:Unassessed Israel-related articles 327:project-independent quality rating 180:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality 14: 2896:After disucssion, I also support 2305:. Please take a moment to review 2008:For example your statement below 1601:Well, if you look at the article 607:Israel articles needing attention 590:Israel articles needing infoboxes 4397:The discussion above is closed. 3601:Christianity's suspicions of sex 2992:delete reference to Christianity 1365:Knowledge:Avoid personal remarks 1183:http://jewishfaces.com/porn.html 907: 863:. Further details are available 850: 774: 764: 746: 433:Cleanup listing for this project 389: 272: 262: 238: 164: 154: 133: 69: 51: 20: 4495:C-Class Israel-related articles 4276:Debate over Rabbi and the Sauna 2489:RfC: Attitude towards Sexuality 1508:Examples of lack of neutral POV 1071:His work has been published by 623:Module:Location map/data/Israel 339:This article has been rated as 217:This article has been rated as 203:Sexology and sexuality articles 1277:Which sentence did you leave? 570:Add geographic coordinates to 484:Participate in discussions at 1: 1233:In general, in contrast with 1222:21:43, 10 November 2014 (UTC) 1199:20:14, 10 November 2014 (UTC) 1104:19:48, 6 September 2014 (UTC) 1085:19:45, 6 September 2014 (UTC) 1067:19:33, 6 September 2014 (UTC) 1049:19:26, 6 September 2014 (UTC) 994:05:20, 13 December 2010 (UTC) 807:Knowledge:WikiProject Judaism 801:and see a list of open tasks. 299:and see a list of open tasks. 191:and see a list of open tasks. 90:and see a list of open tasks. 4510:Start-Class Judaism articles 3367:So I propose the following: 2106:futile and leading nowhere. 1895:I am referring to this line 1765:13:38, 13 October 2015 (UTC) 1749:13:59, 12 October 2015 (UTC) 1668:18:47, 11 October 2015 (UTC) 1348:is. In my opinion, anyway. 1027:written by a professor from 1013:20:39, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 934:01:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC) 897:23:30, 17 January 2022 (UTC) 810:Template:WikiProject Judaism 655:Add pictures to articles in 305:Knowledge:WikiProject Israel 4505:WikiProject Israel articles 3595:Regarding a second sentence 2744:"Judaism and contraception" 2642:"Judaism and contraception" 2122:Chritianity vs. Catholicism 954:15:40, 14 August 2010 (UTC) 542:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu 308:Template:WikiProject Israel 4531: 4450:20:47, 17 March 2019 (UTC) 4421:20:33, 17 March 2019 (UTC) 4250:Possible Balancing sources 3571:Attempt to reach consensus 2864:Christianity and sexuality 2804:James A. Brundage (1987). 2768:James A. Brundage (1987). 2620:James A. Brundage (1987). 2447:20:23, 28 April 2017 (UTC) 2410:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2298:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2284:17:37, 29 April 2017 (UTC) 2233:18:22, 29 April 2017 (UTC) 2203:19:16, 24 April 2017 (UTC) 2188:14:09, 24 April 2017 (UTC) 2170:17:11, 22 April 2017 (UTC) 2143:14:33, 21 April 2017 (UTC) 1836:15:58, 21 April 2017 (UTC) 1822:15:58, 21 April 2017 (UTC) 1807:13:35, 21 April 2017 (UTC) 1784:12:24, 21 April 2017 (UTC) 1177:, and we shouldn't forget 1073:Jewish Publication Society 1029:American Jewish University 975:00:46, 12 March 2019 (UTC) 829:project's importance scale 625:. Add maps to articles in 506:Diamond industry in Israel 345:project's importance scale 223:project's importance scale 118:project's importance scale 79:WikiProject Jewish culture 4426:Adding to consent section 3454:about modern Christianity 2791:Adam, Eve and the Serpent 2535:07:00, 16 June 2017 (UTC) 1645:21:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC) 1603:Homosexuality and Judaism 1593:21:00, 22 July 2015 (UTC) 1574:20:57, 22 July 2015 (UTC) 1543:20:48, 22 July 2015 (UTC) 1494:21:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 1464:09:03, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 1437:08:59, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 1410:08:40, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 1388:08:25, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 1358:11:57, 20 July 2015 (UTC) 1335:08:46, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 1308:08:27, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 1290:11:53, 20 July 2015 (UTC) 1272:06:06, 20 July 2015 (UTC) 1257:00:32, 20 July 2015 (UTC) 1208:and sexuality, but about 826: 759: 351: 338: 324: 257: 216: 149: 115: 64: 46: 4399:Please do not modify it. 4386:14:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 4360:12:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 4346:11:18, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 4333:10:35, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 4318:09:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 4230:10:13, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 4208:02:07, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 4191:02:03, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 4178:23:32, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 4164:19:22, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 4147:19:07, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 4133:18:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 4110:20:25, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 4083:19:30, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 4066:13:18, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 4046:23:03, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 4025:19:54, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 4011:13:16, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 3996:08:26, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 3960:19:42, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 3937:13:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 3922:07:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 3903:06:45, 19 May 2017 (UTC) 3887:14:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 3853:12:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 3831:11:17, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 3804:10:33, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 3786:07:33, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 3772:07:21, 18 May 2017 (UTC) 3745:21:27, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3732:21:22, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3717:20:40, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3689:20:13, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3670:20:10, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3644:What's more: I wouldn't 3618:19:54, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3590:19:54, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3539:19:38, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3518:19:24, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3495:19:01, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3480:18:45, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3466:17:49, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3436:17:36, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3417:16:55, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3388:14:52, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3337:09:39, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3322:06:05, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3308:05:44, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3294:05:29, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 3272:22:50, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 3258:22:18, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 3243:20:28, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 3217:19:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 3189:03:43, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 3174:23:09, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 3148:20:39, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 3134:20:36, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 3115:20:26, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 3100:20:15, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 3072:11:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC) 3051:17:53, 21 May 2017 (UTC) 3030:23:13, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 3004:01:26, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 2985:19:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 2967:22:46, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 2945:00:04, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 2908:02:02, 22 May 2017 (UTC) 2891:20:07, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 2873:20:02, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 2855:05:30, 17 May 2017 (UTC) 2549:19:40, 15 May 2017 (UTC) 2503:Please do not modify it. 2483:22:43, 4 July 2017 (UTC) 2467:00:52, 10 May 2017 (UTC) 2242:Please do not modify it. 1755:the what I had in mind. 565:Geographical coordinates 3576:Proposed first sentence 2789:Pagels, Elaine (1989). 2294:External links modified 2116:11:25, 2 May 2017 (UTC) 2101:10:01, 2 May 2017 (UTC) 2085:23:21, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 2052:21:30, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 2021:21:29, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 2004:21:25, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 1981:21:14, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 1952:21:14, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 1938:19:22, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 1908:19:17, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 1891:19:09, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 1873:18:45, 1 May 2017 (UTC) 534:Public Defence (Israel) 435:is available. See also 311:Israel-related articles 102:Jewish culture articles 4300: 2917:Religion and sexuality 2317:Replaced archive link 1246: 1019:What Maimonides stated 194:Sexology and sexuality 172:Human sexuality portal 141:Sexology and sexuality 28:This article is rated 4295: 4291:The Orthodox Sex Guru 3978:psychological studies 3603:as an element of the 3084:argument by assertion 2720:. The Local Europe AB 2669:. The Local Europe AB 2568:Clement of Alexandria 2303:Judaism and sexuality 1231: 867:. Student editor(s): 356:Project Israel To Do: 3951:are trying to push. 3373:view of the subject. 2746:. BBC. July 21, 2009 2692:Rabbi Michael Gold. 2644:. BBC. July 21, 2009 2595:Rabbi Michael Gold. 2522:of the versions are 2391:regular verification 1141:sharpshooter), even 441:the tool's wiki page 437:the list by category 3836:could be rephrased. 3449:at the present time 3078:Threaded discussion 2498:request for comment 2381:After February 2018 1912:I was referring to 790:WikiProject Judaism 705:Translate to Hebrew 2576:ascetic Christians 2518:i.e. inclusion of 2435:InternetArchiveBot 2386:InternetArchiveBot 1864:please remove it. 914:on the course page 873:Phthalate-esther22 865:on the course page 621:See discussion at 288:WikiProject Israel 34:content assessment 4452: 4436:comment added by 3524:WP:HUMOR REQUIRED 3362:to "unfavorable". 3040: 2411: 2291: 2290: 2031: 1962: 1127:Magnus Hirschfeld 977: 843: 842: 839: 838: 835: 834: 741: 740: 737: 736: 733: 732: 729: 728: 587:Add infoboxes to 550:Pre-Modern Aliyah 522:Sephardic Haredim 233: 232: 229: 228: 128: 127: 124: 123: 4522: 4343: 4315: 4205: 4188: 4144: 4107: 4080: 4042: 4022: 3993: 3957: 3919: 3828: 3783: 3769: 3742: 3714: 3515: 3414: 3319: 3305: 3269: 3240: 3230:I would support 3229: 3171: 3163: 3145: 3112: 3064: 3038: 3022: 2905: 2888: 2862:let the article 2816: 2815: 2801: 2795: 2794: 2786: 2780: 2779: 2765: 2759: 2758: 2753: 2751: 2740: 2734: 2733: 2727: 2725: 2714: 2708: 2707: 2702: 2700: 2689: 2683: 2682: 2676: 2674: 2663: 2657: 2656: 2651: 2649: 2638: 2632: 2631: 2617: 2611: 2610: 2605: 2603: 2592: 2546: 2532: 2514:Consensus is to 2505: 2445: 2436: 2409: 2408: 2387: 2348: 2244: 2220: 2082: 2025: 2018: 2001: 1956: 1949: 1905: 1870: 1846: 1791:personal attacks 936: 911: 899: 877:StCharlesGilbert 862: 858: 854: 815: 814: 813:Judaism articles 811: 808: 805: 784: 779: 778: 777: 768: 761: 760: 750: 743: 538:Prisoner of Zion 479:Deletion sorting 393: 386: 385: 353: 313: 312: 309: 306: 303: 282: 277: 276: 275: 266: 259: 258: 253: 250: 242: 235: 205: 204: 201: 198: 195: 174: 169: 168: 158: 151: 150: 145: 137: 130: 104: 103: 100: 97: 94: 73: 66: 65: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 4530: 4529: 4525: 4524: 4523: 4521: 4520: 4519: 4455: 4454: 4428: 4408: 4403: 4402: 4341:Seraphim System 4339: 4313:Seraphim System 4311: 4252: 4203:Seraphim System 4201: 4186:Seraphim System 4184: 4142:Seraphim System 4140: 4105:Seraphim System 4103: 4078:Seraphim System 4076: 4036: 4020:Seraphim System 4018: 3991:Seraphim System 3989: 3955:Seraphim System 3953: 3917:Seraphim System 3915: 3826:Seraphim System 3824: 3781:Seraphim System 3779: 3767:Seraphim System 3765: 3740:Seraphim System 3738: 3712:Seraphim System 3710: 3706:in certain ways 3625: 3573: 3513:Seraphim System 3511: 3445:Seraphim System 3412:Seraphim System 3410: 3397:in Britannica, 3317:Seraphim System 3315: 3303:Seraphim System 3301: 3267:Seraphim System 3265: 3238:Seraphim System 3236: 3223: 3169:Seraphim System 3167: 3157: 3143:Seraphim System 3141: 3110:Seraphim System 3108: 3080: 3060: 2903:Seraphim System 2901: 2886:Seraphim System 2884: 2826: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2803: 2802: 2798: 2788: 2787: 2783: 2767: 2766: 2762: 2749: 2747: 2742: 2741: 2737: 2723: 2721: 2716: 2715: 2711: 2698: 2696: 2691: 2690: 2686: 2672: 2670: 2665: 2664: 2660: 2647: 2645: 2640: 2639: 2635: 2619: 2618: 2614: 2601: 2599: 2594: 2593: 2589: 2544:Seraphim System 2542: 2537: 2528: 2501: 2491: 2454: 2439: 2434: 2402: 2395:have permission 2385: 2342: 2311:this simple FaQ 2296: 2240: 2218: 2124: 2080:Seraphim System 2078: 2016:Seraphim System 2014: 1999:Seraphim System 1997: 1947:Seraphim System 1945: 1903:Seraphim System 1901: 1868:Seraphim System 1866: 1840: 1772: 1680: 1510: 1345: 1230: 1212:and sexuality. 1135:Ruth Westheimer 1115:Shmuley Boteach 1111: 1090:keeping it per 1025:reliable source 1021: 982: 942: 919: 905: 882: 848: 812: 809: 806: 803: 802: 780: 775: 773: 725: 710:David Bar-Hayim 518:Rami Kleinstein 502:Ayala Procaccia 454:Participate in 384: 310: 307: 304: 301: 300: 278: 273: 271: 251: 248: 202: 199: 196: 193: 192: 185:human sexuality 170: 163: 143: 101: 98: 95: 92: 91: 32:on Knowledge's 29: 12: 11: 5: 4528: 4526: 4518: 4517: 4512: 4507: 4502: 4497: 4492: 4487: 4482: 4477: 4472: 4467: 4457: 4456: 4427: 4424: 4407: 4406:Added sections 4404: 4396: 4395: 4394: 4393: 4392: 4391: 4390: 4389: 4388: 4367: 4366: 4365: 4364: 4363: 4362: 4307: 4306: 4294: 4293: 4288: 4283: 4278: 4273: 4268: 4263: 4258: 4251: 4248: 4247: 4246: 4245: 4244: 4243: 4242: 4241: 4240: 4239: 4238: 4237: 4236: 4235: 4234: 4233: 4232: 4213: 4193: 4180: 4115: 4114: 4113: 4112: 4094:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 4085: 4054:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 4034: 4033: 4032: 4031: 4030: 4029: 4028: 4027: 3966: 3965: 3964: 3963: 3962: 3944:User:StevenJ81 3868: 3867: 3866: 3865: 3864: 3863: 3862: 3861: 3860: 3859: 3858: 3857: 3856: 3855: 3837: 3792: 3774: 3756: 3752: 3749: 3748: 3747: 3692: 3691: 3677: 3658: 3657: 3624: 3621: 3597: 3596: 3578: 3577: 3572: 3569: 3568: 3567: 3566: 3565: 3564: 3563: 3562: 3561: 3560: 3559: 3558: 3557: 3556: 3555: 3554: 3553: 3552: 3551: 3550: 3549: 3548: 3547: 3546: 3545: 3544: 3543: 3542: 3541: 3527: 3423: 3377: 3376: 3375: 3365: 3364: 3363: 3356: 3349: 3310: 3278: 3220: 3219: 3192: 3191: 3155: 3154: 3153: 3152: 3151: 3150: 3118: 3117: 3079: 3076: 3075: 3074: 3053: 3032: 3008: 3007: 3006: 2969: 2948: 2910: 2894: 2875: 2857: 2825: 2822: 2818: 2817: 2796: 2781: 2760: 2735: 2709: 2684: 2658: 2633: 2612: 2586: 2585: 2581: 2538: 2513: 2512: 2511: 2492: 2490: 2487: 2486: 2485: 2459:112.211.214.39 2453: 2450: 2429: 2428: 2421: 2374: 2373: 2365:Added archive 2363: 2355:Added archive 2353: 2339: 2331:Added archive 2329: 2295: 2292: 2289: 2288: 2287: 2286: 2246: 2245: 2236: 2235: 2217: 2214: 2212: 2210: 2209: 2208: 2207: 2206: 2205: 2173: 2172: 2157: 2123: 2120: 2119: 2118: 2103: 2073: 2072: 2071: 2070: 2069: 2068: 2067: 2066: 2065: 2064: 2063: 2062: 2061: 2060: 2059: 2058: 2057: 2056: 2055: 2054: 2040: 2037: 2033: 2006: 1968: 1828:112.211.214.39 1814:112.211.214.39 1809: 1795:primary source 1776:112.211.214.39 1771: 1768: 1752: 1751: 1715: 1714: 1711: 1708: 1705: 1702: 1699: 1696: 1679: 1676: 1675: 1674: 1673: 1672: 1671: 1670: 1650: 1649: 1648: 1647: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1620: 1619: 1618: 1617: 1616:centuries ago. 1610: 1609: 1608: 1607: 1606: 1596: 1595: 1579: 1578: 1577: 1576: 1558: 1557: 1556: 1555: 1531: 1530: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1524: 1509: 1506: 1505: 1504: 1503: 1502: 1501: 1500: 1499: 1498: 1497: 1496: 1473: 1472: 1471: 1470: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1466: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1415: 1414: 1413: 1412: 1398: 1397: 1391: 1390: 1368: 1344: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1311: 1310: 1296: 1275: 1274: 1229: 1226: 1225: 1224: 1143:Annie Sprinkle 1110: 1107: 1020: 1017: 1016: 1015: 1001: 981: 979: 973:comment added 941: 938: 904: 901: 857:7 January 2019 847: 844: 841: 840: 837: 836: 833: 832: 825: 819: 818: 816: 799:the discussion 786: 785: 782:Judaism portal 769: 757: 756: 751: 739: 738: 735: 734: 731: 730: 727: 726: 724: 723: 722: 721: 700: 692: 679: 662: 645: 632: 611: 594: 577: 560: 552: 491: 474: 461: 444: 422: 397: 395: 394: 383: 382: 377: 372: 367: 361: 358: 357: 349: 348: 341:Mid-importance 337: 331: 330: 323: 317: 316: 314: 297:the discussion 284: 283: 267: 255: 254: 252:Mid‑importance 243: 231: 230: 227: 226: 219:Low-importance 215: 209: 208: 206: 189:the discussion 176: 175: 159: 147: 146: 144:Low‑importance 138: 126: 125: 122: 121: 114: 108: 107: 105: 93:Jewish culture 88:the discussion 84:Jewish culture 74: 62: 61: 59:Jewish culture 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4527: 4516: 4513: 4511: 4508: 4506: 4503: 4501: 4498: 4496: 4493: 4491: 4488: 4486: 4483: 4481: 4478: 4476: 4473: 4471: 4468: 4466: 4463: 4462: 4460: 4453: 4451: 4447: 4443: 4439: 4435: 4425: 4423: 4422: 4418: 4414: 4405: 4400: 4387: 4383: 4379: 4375: 4374: 4373: 4372: 4371: 4370: 4369: 4368: 4361: 4357: 4353: 4349: 4348: 4347: 4344: 4342: 4336: 4335: 4334: 4330: 4326: 4322: 4321: 4320: 4319: 4316: 4314: 4305: 4302: 4301: 4299: 4292: 4289: 4287: 4284: 4282: 4279: 4277: 4274: 4272: 4269: 4267: 4264: 4262: 4259: 4257: 4254: 4253: 4249: 4231: 4227: 4223: 4219: 4214: 4211: 4210: 4209: 4206: 4204: 4197: 4194: 4192: 4189: 4187: 4181: 4179: 4175: 4171: 4167: 4166: 4165: 4161: 4157: 4152: 4151: 4150: 4149: 4148: 4145: 4143: 4136: 4135: 4134: 4130: 4126: 4121: 4120: 4119: 4118: 4117: 4116: 4111: 4108: 4106: 4099: 4095: 4091: 4086: 4084: 4081: 4079: 4073: 4069: 4068: 4067: 4063: 4059: 4055: 4050: 4049: 4048: 4047: 4040: 4026: 4023: 4021: 4014: 4013: 4012: 4008: 4004: 3999: 3998: 3997: 3994: 3992: 3986: 3983: 3979: 3974: 3970: 3967: 3961: 3958: 3956: 3949: 3945: 3940: 3939: 3938: 3934: 3930: 3925: 3924: 3923: 3920: 3918: 3911: 3906: 3905: 3904: 3900: 3896: 3891: 3890: 3889: 3888: 3884: 3880: 3875: 3854: 3850: 3846: 3842: 3838: 3834: 3833: 3832: 3829: 3827: 3820: 3816: 3812: 3807: 3806: 3805: 3801: 3797: 3793: 3789: 3788: 3787: 3784: 3782: 3775: 3773: 3770: 3768: 3761: 3760: 3757: 3753: 3750: 3746: 3743: 3741: 3735: 3734: 3733: 3729: 3725: 3720: 3719: 3718: 3715: 3713: 3707: 3703: 3700:I agree with 3699: 3696: 3695: 3694: 3693: 3690: 3686: 3682: 3678: 3674: 3673: 3672: 3671: 3667: 3663: 3655: 3654: 3653: 3650: 3647: 3642: 3639: 3634: 3630: 3622: 3620: 3619: 3615: 3611: 3606: 3602: 3594: 3593: 3592: 3591: 3587: 3583: 3575: 3574: 3570: 3540: 3536: 3532: 3528: 3525: 3521: 3520: 3519: 3516: 3514: 3507: 3504: 3501: 3498: 3497: 3496: 3492: 3488: 3483: 3482: 3481: 3477: 3473: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3463: 3459: 3455: 3450: 3446: 3442: 3439: 3438: 3437: 3433: 3429: 3424: 3420: 3419: 3418: 3415: 3413: 3407: 3403: 3400: 3396: 3391: 3390: 3389: 3385: 3381: 3378: 3374: 3372: 3369: 3368: 3366: 3360: 3357: 3353: 3350: 3347: 3344: 3343: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3334: 3330: 3325: 3324: 3323: 3320: 3318: 3311: 3309: 3306: 3304: 3297: 3296: 3295: 3291: 3287: 3283: 3279: 3275: 3274: 3273: 3270: 3268: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3255: 3251: 3246: 3245: 3244: 3241: 3239: 3233: 3227: 3222: 3221: 3218: 3214: 3210: 3206: 3201: 3197: 3194: 3193: 3190: 3186: 3182: 3178: 3177: 3176: 3175: 3172: 3170: 3161: 3149: 3146: 3144: 3137: 3136: 3135: 3131: 3127: 3122: 3121: 3120: 3119: 3116: 3113: 3111: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3101: 3097: 3093: 3089: 3085: 3077: 3073: 3069: 3065: 3063: 3057: 3054: 3052: 3048: 3044: 3036: 3033: 3031: 3028: 3026: 3017: 3013: 3009: 3005: 3001: 2997: 2993: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2986: 2982: 2978: 2974: 2970: 2968: 2964: 2960: 2956: 2952: 2949: 2946: 2942: 2938: 2934: 2930: 2926: 2922: 2918: 2914: 2911: 2909: 2906: 2904: 2899: 2895: 2893: 2892: 2889: 2887: 2880: 2876: 2874: 2871: 2869: 2865: 2861: 2858: 2856: 2852: 2848: 2844: 2840: 2836: 2831: 2828: 2827: 2823: 2814: 2809: 2808: 2800: 2797: 2792: 2785: 2782: 2778: 2773: 2772: 2764: 2761: 2757: 2745: 2739: 2736: 2732: 2719: 2713: 2710: 2706: 2695: 2688: 2685: 2681: 2668: 2662: 2659: 2655: 2643: 2637: 2634: 2630: 2625: 2624: 2616: 2613: 2609: 2598: 2591: 2588: 2584: 2580: 2577: 2573: 2569: 2564: 2561: 2557: 2555: 2551: 2550: 2547: 2545: 2536: 2533: 2531: 2530:Winged Blades 2525: 2521: 2517: 2510: 2507: 2504: 2499: 2494: 2493: 2488: 2484: 2480: 2476: 2471: 2470: 2469: 2468: 2464: 2460: 2451: 2449: 2448: 2443: 2438: 2437: 2426: 2422: 2419: 2415: 2414: 2413: 2406: 2400: 2396: 2392: 2388: 2382: 2377: 2372: 2368: 2364: 2362: 2358: 2354: 2352: 2346: 2340: 2338: 2334: 2330: 2328: 2324: 2320: 2316: 2315: 2314: 2312: 2308: 2304: 2299: 2293: 2285: 2281: 2277: 2273: 2272: 2271: 2269: 2265: 2259: 2256: 2252: 2248: 2247: 2243: 2238: 2237: 2234: 2230: 2226: 2222: 2221: 2215: 2213: 2204: 2200: 2196: 2191: 2190: 2189: 2185: 2181: 2177: 2176: 2175: 2174: 2171: 2167: 2163: 2158: 2155: 2151: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2140: 2136: 2131: 2128: 2121: 2117: 2113: 2109: 2104: 2102: 2098: 2094: 2089: 2088: 2087: 2086: 2083: 2081: 2053: 2049: 2045: 2041: 2038: 2034: 2029: 2028:edit conflict 2024: 2023: 2022: 2019: 2017: 2011: 2007: 2005: 2002: 2000: 1994: 1989: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1978: 1974: 1969: 1966: 1960: 1959:edit conflict 1955: 1954: 1953: 1950: 1948: 1941: 1940: 1939: 1935: 1931: 1927: 1923: 1919: 1915: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1906: 1904: 1898: 1894: 1893: 1892: 1888: 1884: 1880: 1876: 1875: 1874: 1871: 1869: 1863: 1859: 1855: 1851: 1844: 1839: 1838: 1837: 1833: 1829: 1825: 1824: 1823: 1819: 1815: 1810: 1808: 1804: 1800: 1796: 1792: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1785: 1781: 1777: 1769: 1767: 1766: 1762: 1758: 1750: 1746: 1742: 1737: 1736: 1735: 1733: 1729: 1723: 1719: 1712: 1709: 1706: 1703: 1700: 1697: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1688: 1684: 1677: 1669: 1665: 1661: 1656: 1655: 1654: 1653: 1652: 1651: 1646: 1642: 1638: 1633: 1632: 1631: 1630: 1624: 1623: 1622: 1621: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1611: 1604: 1600: 1599: 1598: 1597: 1594: 1590: 1586: 1581: 1580: 1575: 1571: 1567: 1562: 1561: 1560: 1559: 1552: 1551: 1550: 1549: 1548: 1545: 1544: 1540: 1536: 1522: 1521: 1520: 1519: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1515: 1514: 1507: 1495: 1491: 1487: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1465: 1461: 1457: 1452: 1451: 1450: 1449: 1448: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1438: 1434: 1430: 1426: 1421: 1420: 1419: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1411: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1389: 1385: 1381: 1377: 1373: 1369: 1366: 1362: 1361: 1360: 1359: 1355: 1351: 1342: 1336: 1332: 1328: 1324: 1323: 1322: 1321: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1309: 1305: 1301: 1297: 1294: 1293: 1292: 1291: 1287: 1283: 1278: 1273: 1269: 1265: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1258: 1254: 1250: 1245: 1242: 1240: 1236: 1227: 1223: 1219: 1215: 1211: 1207: 1203: 1202: 1201: 1200: 1196: 1192: 1188: 1184: 1180: 1176: 1172: 1168: 1164: 1160: 1156: 1152: 1148: 1144: 1140: 1136: 1132: 1131:Wilhelm Reich 1128: 1124: 1123:Sigmund Freud 1118: 1116: 1108: 1106: 1105: 1101: 1097: 1093: 1087: 1086: 1082: 1078: 1074: 1069: 1068: 1064: 1060: 1056: 1051: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1034: 1030: 1026: 1018: 1014: 1010: 1006: 1002: 998: 997: 996: 995: 991: 987: 980: 978: 976: 972: 966: 962: 956: 955: 951: 947: 939: 937: 935: 931: 927: 923: 917: 915: 910: 902: 900: 898: 894: 890: 886: 880: 878: 874: 870: 866: 861:23 April 2019 853: 845: 830: 824: 821: 820: 817: 800: 796: 792: 791: 783: 772: 770: 767: 763: 762: 758: 755: 752: 749: 745: 719: 715: 711: 708: 706: 702: 701: 699: 697: 693: 691: 688: 686: 685: 680: 677: 676: 671: 669: 668: 663: 660: 659: 654: 652: 651: 646: 644: 641: 639: 638: 633: 630: 629: 624: 620: 618: 617: 612: 609: 608: 603: 601: 600: 595: 592: 591: 586: 584: 583: 578: 575: 574: 569: 567: 566: 561: 558: 557: 551: 547: 543: 539: 535: 531: 530:Nachum Heiman 527: 526:Zman Tel Aviv 523: 519: 515: 511: 507: 503: 500: 498: 497: 492: 489: 488: 483: 481: 480: 475: 473: 470: 468: 467: 462: 459: 458: 453: 451: 450: 445: 442: 438: 434: 431: 429: 428: 423: 420: 419: 414: 413: 408: 406: 405: 400: 399: 396: 392: 388: 387: 381: 378: 376: 373: 371: 368: 366: 363: 362: 360: 359: 355: 354: 350: 346: 342: 336: 333: 332: 328: 322: 319: 318: 315: 298: 294: 290: 289: 281: 280:Israel portal 270: 268: 265: 261: 260: 256: 247: 244: 241: 237: 224: 220: 214: 211: 210: 207: 190: 186: 182: 181: 173: 167: 162: 160: 157: 153: 152: 148: 142: 139: 136: 132: 119: 113: 110: 109: 106: 89: 85: 81: 80: 75: 72: 68: 67: 63: 60: 57: 54: 50: 45: 41: 35: 27: 23: 18: 17: 4432:— Preceding 4429: 4409: 4398: 4350:Ok. Thanks. 4340: 4312: 4308: 4296: 4220:my version. 4217: 4202: 4185: 4141: 4104: 4097: 4089: 4077: 4071: 4035: 4019: 3990: 3982:another book 3954: 3916: 3873: 3871: 3840: 3825: 3818: 3780: 3766: 3739: 3711: 3705: 3697: 3659: 3649:original sin 3645: 3643: 3632: 3628: 3626: 3598: 3579: 3512: 3453: 3448: 3411: 3405: 3370: 3358: 3352:Stipulation: 3351: 3346:Stipulation: 3345: 3316: 3302: 3266: 3237: 3204: 3199: 3195: 3168: 3156: 3142: 3109: 3081: 3061: 3059: 3055: 3034: 3015: 3011: 2994:altogether. 2991: 2972: 2971: 2954: 2950: 2912: 2902: 2897: 2885: 2878: 2877: 2859: 2829: 2811: 2806: 2799: 2790: 2784: 2775: 2770: 2763: 2755: 2748:. Retrieved 2738: 2729: 2722:. Retrieved 2712: 2704: 2697:. Retrieved 2687: 2678: 2671:. Retrieved 2661: 2653: 2646:. Retrieved 2636: 2627: 2622: 2615: 2607: 2600:. Retrieved 2590: 2582: 2565: 2559: 2558: 2553: 2552: 2543: 2539: 2529: 2523: 2519: 2515: 2508: 2502: 2495: 2455: 2433: 2430: 2405:source check 2384: 2378: 2375: 2300: 2297: 2260: 2257: 2253: 2249: 2241: 2211: 2150:original sin 2132: 2129: 2125: 2079: 2074: 2015: 1998: 1992: 1965:WP:CONSENSUS 1946: 1926:Christianity 1922:original sin 1918:Christianity 1914:this version 1902: 1879:original sin 1867: 1861: 1857: 1854:Nihil obstat 1853: 1773: 1753: 1724: 1720: 1716: 1689: 1685: 1681: 1546: 1532: 1511: 1425:WP:CONSENSUS 1375: 1371: 1346: 1279: 1276: 1247: 1243: 1235:Christianity 1232: 1209: 1205: 1179:Emma Goldman 1163:Jamie Gillis 1155:Al Goldstein 1147:Nina Hartley 1119: 1112: 1088: 1070: 1052: 1022: 983: 957: 943: 918: 906: 881: 849: 788: 704: 703: 695: 694: 682: 681: 675:Israel stubs 673: 665: 664: 656: 648: 647: 635: 634: 626: 614: 613: 605: 597: 596: 588: 580: 579: 571: 563: 562: 554: 514:Levin Kipnis 494: 493: 485: 477: 476: 464: 463: 455: 447: 446: 425: 424: 416: 410: 402: 401: 340: 286: 218: 178: 77: 40:WikiProjects 3973:this source 3969:this source 3633:restrictive 3605:fall of man 3018:, such as " 2452:"Consensus" 1862:controversy 1171:Philip Roth 1159:Harry Reems 1151:Susan Block 969:—Preceding 869:1221Bambino 449:Collaborate 30:Start-class 4459:Categories 4413:Audi072636 4196:Debressers 3791:these two. 3629:restrained 3623:Discussion 2868:Sir Joseph 2793:. Vintage. 2583:References 2475:Tgeorgescu 2442:Report bug 1858:Imprimatur 1770:St Aquinas 1175:Erica Jong 1167:Ron Jeremy 1096:Tgeorgescu 1077:Tgeorgescu 1059:Tgeorgescu 1053:See salso 1041:Tgeorgescu 1037:WP:PRIMARY 1023:We have a 718:Guy Oseary 510:Edna Arbel 4378:StevenJ81 4352:Debresser 4325:Debresser 4222:Debresser 4170:Debresser 4125:Debresser 4058:Debresser 4039:Debresser 4003:Debresser 3929:Debresser 3895:Debresser 3879:StevenJ81 3845:Debresser 3796:Debresser 3724:StevenJ81 3702:StevenJ81 3681:Debresser 3662:StevenJ81 3610:Debresser 3582:Debresser 3531:Debresser 3487:StevenJ81 3472:Debresser 3458:StevenJ81 3441:Debresser 3428:Debresser 3380:StevenJ81 3329:Debresser 3286:Debresser 3277:anything. 3250:Debresser 3232:StevenJ81 3226:StevenJ81 3209:StevenJ81 3181:Debresser 3126:Debresser 3092:Debresser 3062:North8000 3016:version 1 2996:StevenJ81 2977:StevenJ81 2973:Version 1 2951:Version 1 2879:Version 2 2847:Debresser 2839:Debresser 2830:Version 1 2699:April 20, 2602:April 20, 2560:Version 2 2554:Version 1 2520:either of 2425:this tool 2418:this tool 2345:dead link 2276:Debresser 2195:Debresser 2162:Debresser 2108:Debresser 2093:Debresser 2044:Debresser 1973:Debresser 1930:Debresser 1883:Debresser 1843:Debresser 1799:Debresser 1757:Debresser 1741:StevenJ81 1660:Debresser 1585:Debresser 1486:Debresser 1429:Debresser 1380:Debresser 1300:Debresser 1264:Debresser 1214:Debresser 1055:WP:BURDEN 946:Midrashah 714:Guy Bavli 553:See also 409:Rate the 4446:contribs 4434:unsigned 3910:WP:UNDUE 3282:WP:UNDUE 3196:Comment. 3088:WP:UNDUE 3043:Pincrete 2835:WP:UNDUE 2572:Stoicism 2431:Cheers.— 2264:deisenbe 2216:Deisenbe 2180:deisenbe 2135:deisenbe 1728:deisenbe 1637:deisenbe 1566:deisenbe 1535:deisenbe 1456:deisenbe 1402:deisenbe 1350:deisenbe 1327:deisenbe 1282:deisenbe 1249:deisenbe 1239:Celibacy 1191:deisenbe 940:Untitled 926:PrimeBOT 889:PrimeBOT 599:Maintain 466:Copyedit 3698:Comment 3676:itself. 3399:or here 3160:OtterAM 3056:Neither 3035:Neither 3021:limits. 3012:neither 3010:Either 2959:OtterAM 2921:WP:SYNC 2913:neither 2898:neither 2524:opposed 2349:tag to 2307:my edit 1988:WP:NPOV 1850:WP:NPOV 1376:Judaism 1210:Judaism 1139:Haganah 971:undated 961:Tsg1998 804:Judaism 795:Judaism 754:Judaism 582:Infobox 427:Cleanup 370:history 343:on the 249:C‑class 221:on the 4156:Jytdog 4098:debate 3874:at all 3406:before 3355:clear. 3205:either 2937:Jytdog 2929:Jytdog 2824:Survey 2750:May 2, 2724:May 2, 2673:May 2, 2648:May 2, 2341:Added 1812:right? 1092:WP:VER 716:, and 684:Update 496:Expand 404:Assess 302:Israel 293:Israel 246:Israel 36:scale. 4438:OH2MI 4411:Best- 3815:WP:RS 3811:below 3646:touch 3638:WP:RS 3631:than 2731:good. 2680:good. 2321:with 2036:else. 1993:which 1033:WP:OR 986:Hznhr 696:Other 667:Stubs 650:Photo 380:purge 375:watch 4442:talk 4417:talk 4382:talk 4356:talk 4329:talk 4226:talk 4218:only 4174:talk 4160:talk 4129:talk 4062:talk 4007:talk 3948:here 3933:talk 3899:talk 3883:talk 3849:talk 3800:talk 3728:talk 3685:talk 3666:talk 3614:talk 3586:talk 3535:talk 3491:talk 3476:talk 3462:talk 3432:talk 3395:here 3384:talk 3333:talk 3290:talk 3254:talk 3213:talk 3185:talk 3130:talk 3096:talk 3068:talk 3047:talk 3000:talk 2981:talk 2963:talk 2955:just 2941:talk 2933:talk 2925:here 2851:talk 2843:talk 2752:2017 2726:2017 2701:2017 2675:2017 2650:2017 2604:2017 2479:talk 2463:talk 2280:talk 2268:talk 2229:talk 2225:John 2199:talk 2184:talk 2166:talk 2152:and 2139:talk 2112:talk 2097:talk 2048:talk 1977:talk 1934:talk 1887:talk 1856:and 1832:talk 1818:talk 1803:talk 1780:talk 1761:talk 1745:talk 1732:talk 1664:talk 1641:talk 1589:talk 1570:talk 1539:talk 1490:talk 1460:talk 1433:talk 1406:talk 1384:talk 1354:talk 1331:talk 1304:talk 1286:talk 1268:talk 1253:talk 1218:talk 1206:Jews 1195:talk 1185:and 1100:talk 1081:talk 1063:talk 1045:talk 1035:and 1009:talk 1005:Mzk1 990:talk 965:talk 950:talk 930:talk 893:talk 859:and 672:See 637:NPOV 604:See 439:and 415:and 365:edit 3841:you 3819:one 3025:DES 2399:RfC 2369:to 2359:to 2335:to 2325:on 1881:"? 1789:No 1372:law 1137:(a 967:) 924:by 887:by 823:??? 616:Map 335:Mid 213:Low 112:??? 4461:: 4448:) 4444:• 4419:) 4384:) 4358:) 4331:) 4228:) 4176:) 4162:) 4131:) 4064:) 4056:. 4009:) 3935:) 3901:) 3885:) 3851:) 3802:) 3730:) 3687:) 3668:) 3616:) 3588:) 3537:) 3493:) 3478:) 3464:) 3434:) 3386:) 3335:) 3292:) 3256:) 3215:) 3200:do 3187:) 3132:) 3098:) 3070:) 3049:) 3041:. 3002:) 2983:) 2965:) 2943:) 2853:) 2754:. 2728:. 2703:. 2677:. 2652:. 2606:. 2500:. 2481:) 2465:) 2412:. 2407:}} 2403:{{ 2347:}} 2343:{{ 2282:) 2270:) 2231:) 2201:) 2186:) 2168:) 2141:) 2114:) 2099:) 2050:) 1979:) 1936:) 1889:) 1834:) 1820:) 1805:) 1782:) 1763:) 1747:) 1734:) 1666:) 1643:) 1591:) 1572:) 1541:) 1492:) 1462:) 1435:) 1427:. 1408:) 1386:) 1356:) 1333:) 1306:) 1288:) 1270:) 1255:) 1220:) 1197:) 1173:, 1169:, 1165:, 1161:, 1157:, 1153:, 1149:, 1145:, 1133:, 1129:, 1125:, 1102:) 1094:. 1083:) 1075:. 1065:) 1057:. 1047:) 1039:. 1011:) 992:) 952:) 932:) 916:. 895:) 879:. 875:, 871:, 712:, 548:, 544:, 540:, 536:, 532:, 528:, 524:, 520:, 516:, 512:, 508:, 504:, 4440:( 4415:( 4380:( 4354:( 4327:( 4224:( 4172:( 4158:( 4127:( 4060:( 4041:: 4037:@ 4005:( 3931:( 3897:( 3881:( 3847:( 3798:( 3726:( 3683:( 3664:( 3612:( 3599:" 3584:( 3533:( 3489:( 3474:( 3460:( 3430:( 3382:( 3331:( 3288:( 3252:( 3228:: 3224:@ 3211:( 3183:( 3162:: 3158:@ 3128:( 3094:( 3066:( 3045:( 2998:( 2979:( 2961:( 2947:) 2939:( 2931:( 2860:1 2849:( 2841:( 2526:. 2477:( 2461:( 2444:) 2440:( 2427:. 2420:. 2278:( 2266:( 2227:( 2197:( 2182:( 2164:( 2137:( 2110:( 2095:( 2046:( 2030:) 2026:( 1975:( 1967:. 1961:) 1957:( 1932:( 1885:( 1845:: 1841:@ 1830:( 1816:( 1801:( 1778:( 1759:( 1743:( 1730:( 1662:( 1639:( 1587:( 1568:( 1537:( 1488:( 1458:( 1431:( 1404:( 1382:( 1352:( 1329:( 1302:( 1284:( 1266:( 1251:( 1216:( 1193:( 1098:( 1079:( 1061:( 1043:( 1007:( 988:( 963:( 948:( 928:( 891:( 831:. 720:. 707:: 698:: 687:: 678:. 670:: 661:. 653:: 640:: 631:. 619:: 610:. 602:: 593:. 585:: 576:. 568:: 559:. 499:: 490:. 482:: 469:: 460:. 452:: 443:. 430:: 421:. 407:: 347:. 321:C 225:. 120:. 42::

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index