389:
count, not what's on "the internet bookshelf". Your position that their own views and feelings are not to be taken into account is just more arrogant chauvinism about "what's best for the red man" as was the gist of what you had said in one of the RMs; i.e. "white man knows best", except your white man is hiding behind
Knowledge guidelines which favour dominance by older sources and explicitly by people who only view these people as anthropological objects to be studied and classified and, here in Knowledge, to ahve some obscure and allgedly "consensus" process decide that what they want doesn't matter. Oowekeeno is out of date; even
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literature as Rivers Inlet is rather famous in that degree; what the fishing lodges there use in their literature, if they even mention these people, remains to be seen. I'll search for such, and for vancouversun.com mentions and the like; but older reliable sources, particular academia from bygone eras and distant places, have to be discounted; it's not just OFFICIAL it's
882:
456:
not in use today....needless to say the IPA given for "Oowekeeno" is obviously not suitable for this other spelling....the tribal council name also shows up as "Ooowekeeno (Wuikinuxv)". I may get to the bulk RM soon, taking notes and looking up names......and all these pages and categories should be "locked down" to prevent more scr3wing around.
605:.. in this case not of Canadian English but of the Wuikinuxv's own sentiment and preferences; their official use comes from their elders, and from the linguists who developed the new spelling system. Definitely, if there was a search limited to the last year for "Wuikinuxv" vs "Owekeeno" (or variants), the former would be found as to what is
414:, don't just throw google stats out there as if only your analysis was right; it's not. And revert Dakelh....did you contact Bill Poser and say, hey, you were wrong, I'm right, tehse people are not Dakelh but Carrier.....?? And discounting "primary sources" in favour of shotgun google hits is not, to me, valid even in Wikipedian terms. The
376:, burying them in cites from older times and other countries by people who do not know them or care about them is ridiculous posturing. If the Govt of BC, the Museum of Anthropology, INAC, the people themselves, the Assembly of First Nations and so on all recognize this name, then all the f*******g google hits in the world don't matter
669:
and to repeat, and underscore Uysvdi's response to Kwami last year, this was an undiscussed move and should have been reverted immediately; the move was without proper citation as Kwami used googles including river, lake, airport etc to justify what he claims is "COMMONNAME". If he had trotted out
600:
government, and will be found in usages be federal, provincial and regional district governments and other similar bodies. These people are small, their territory remote and obscure, they do not figure in media reportage much and do not figure in travel literature, except perhaps in sports fishing
705:
This particular article has RS that favour the new, modern term, rather than the allegedly-most-common-but-not archaicism that was foisted on it (with a wrong spelling), but this should be recognized across the board on native articles equally as much as all the ranting about COMMONNAME and UE and
678:
to the effect that "we don't have to go by what the people prefer to call their community" is often heard in related discussions, including in the RMs last year (from Kwami, no less) that "we don't have to go by what these people prefer to call themselves and want others to call them" - implicitly
618:
use a name cf the decision on the official style of regional district names (hyphens per the enabling legislation and the BC govt's own official style guide, vs MOS fanatics wanting to impose the dash). Aboriginal names are inherently not served well by common usage statistics, in that mention of
455:
but there's so many "FOO people" changes that the thought of an RM is tiresome now, and shouldn't be needed because these were all speedied by "someone with an agenda", an agenda based on a strange notion of COMMONNAME being only sourced from archaic usages, which may predominate in google but are
426:
were wrong. I know my words are wasted on you, you don't listen to others, nor respect them either. Whether me or the
Wuikinuxv, you just don't respect people......and don't respect Knowledge guidelines too, while wrapping yourself in their flag all the time. You've been clearly out of line and
388:
the things you speedied, not expect others to have to RM them back so you can be a catty, picky, constantly contrary quarreler and bait people so you can have your way. It's what the
Wuikinuxv call themselves that count, and what the governments and people who live around them and deal with them
646:
The fallacy with Kwami's complaint in a section above - "If you do a Google Book search, and do not skew the results by appending "people" to one and not the other, "Oowekeeno" is more common, even after manually verifying each hit to exclude false positives. " - very pointedly doesn't take into
651:
the more linguistically-correct version
Wuikinuxv is being used to refer to the people and their government, so that there is no confusion with the place; much the same issue as St'at'imc vs. Lillooet (and Lil'wat vs Mt Currie), Skwxweu7mesh vs Squamish, Tsilhqot'in vs. Chilcotin, Secwepemc vs
643:
297:
including the UBC Museum of
Anthrpology and the BC Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation branch of the BC government. For anyone thinking of invoking "COMMONNAME" or "ENGLISH" to change this to Owekeeno people or Rivers Inlet people based on historical usage or continued usage in the
418:, the BC and federal aboriginal affairs ministry, the Mt Waddington Regional District, BC Parks, and BC Forests Service are the relevant citations for Canadian English names as used in British Columbia. Not an avalanche of google citations, many of which will be using the term because
427:
were shown up in the other RMs that you resisted so fiercely and nastily......are you going to waste more weeks and hours of other people's energies sticking to your guns and your google shotgun, or are you going to condescened that, gee, you might be wrong, and maybe these people
546:
the provincial government now use
Wuikinuxv, this should be speedy reverted without much interloping. The cite for "Handbook of North American Indians" from 1978 might as well have been published in the Stone Age and is not credible for claims of "common name".
397:
and be done with it? These people are a living culture with living identity; they are not things to have labels pasted on them by somebody who doesn't care what they want, and under the guise of guidelines that he himself ignores; you know the one, it's called
136:
329:
So, this is the "discussion". If you do a Google Book search, and do not skew the results by appending "people" to one and not the other, "Oowekeeno" is more common, even after manually verifying each hit to exclude false positives. —
703:"How the group self-identifies should be considered. If their autonym is commonly used in English, it would be the best article title. Any terms regarded as derogatory by members of the ethnic group in question should be avoided."
679:
that
Knowledge has a "right" to dictate what they will be called based on allegedly reliable (if out of date) sources. COMMONNAME applies here, yes indeedy, and the current COMMONNAME, which is also OFFICIAL, is "Wuikinuxv".
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account that "Wuikinuxv" need note be used with "people", and that his supposition, and googles, alleging that "Owekeeno" is more common doesn't take into account all the other uses of that spelling; which are partly
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The "common usage in reliable sources" issue is how we got here, as someone had invoked older "common usage" even though he didn't even get that right. Yes, this is the spelling preferred officially by the eponymous
402:, something so very alien to your behaviour and attitudes it's laughable that you could wear the mantle of Wiki-guidelines while behaving as you have been with all of these. Go on, search BC-only cites, and remember
829:" If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change."
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the established usage. Archaic usages have to be discounted, and it should not be the place of
Knowledge to tell a small nation what it can call itself; the spectre of parochialism is all over such a logic.
538:– Wuikinuxv is the preferred modern usage by the government of these people themselves, over archaic renderings such as Owikeno, Oowekeeno, Oweekeno and others. Wuikinuxv was the title of this article until
819:; note titles mentioned in results such as "Wuikinuxv Land Use", "Wuikinuxv Plan Boundary", "Wuikinuxv Land and Marine Use Zones Protection", (and on the strategic land use planning document, the phrasing "
977:
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885:. He said that was 'most common' but who the frack knows where that notion came from; there are so many spellings for this item that only the modern one should be considered. I hope that's clear by now.
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I've been busy elsewhere, but for those who come up with the refrain about "We" (as if "We" meant
Knowledge when they're speaking for themselves only) "don't have to care what the people think", I found
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other misapplied or not-fully-quoted guidelines that stand in the way of what should be easy changes to usages in modern
English; not what is "prevalent in anthropological literature", said on
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them is not common to start with; and the history of faulty nomenclature derived by academics and officials from elsewhere means that what IS common is now considered archaic and is in disuse.
368:::See the rules on speedies, KwammyGame, "uncontroversial".......oh, but you don't care about any actual guidelines other than those you can tie other people in knots, right? Wuikinuxv is a
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542:, claiming "common name" without actually even getting the archaicism he advanced correct. Because this was done by a speedy move, without discussion, and because the band government
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and more......if this version of the name is used at all, it should be at least what is the listed usage in Canada, not something off someone's linguistics bookshelf...it
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in regard to the offensive-to-the-Deg-Hitan title. Funny though when I bring up the idea that what the people want should be considered, I'm thrown too often
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823:, capital-T "Wuikinuxv Territory", and "Wuikinuxv (formerly known as Oweekeno)". A search for "Oweekeno" without "formerly" re mentions of Wuikinuxv,
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and you will please note the quality/calibre of these cites, which aren't just "official" but also places like the Museum of Anthropology at UBC. Vs
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380:. Coming up with your shallow shotgun citation after violating WP:RM rules for the FORTIETH TIME is not a "discussion". It is b.s. and it's
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there are 376 results], some including "Wui'Kinuxv" with many of the "Oweekeno" phrasings to do with the river or the lake or the
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applies here. Does the nominator have any evidence of common usage in reliable sources? (The case presented above looks like
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linguistics refs, which he didn't, anything published in the last few years, also, is likely to be Wuikinuxv rather than
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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per nom. An identified people should be the primary topic of a term absent something remarkable standing in the way.
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is sitting there all the time, passed over in silence. Why is that, exactly? Prejudice? Ignorance? Arrogance??
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is not spelled that way. Why didn't you just be a good little colonialist and roll it right back to the anglicism
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but a glance at a few of them demonstrates that they were all before the official name change. In re that, note
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4,110 results for "Owekeeno" when references to the lake, the inlet, the airport and the village are excluded
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Which won't be pronounced like the supposed IPA given here for "Oowekeeno".....this is in teh phonebook, and
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have the right to decide what others call them? No, too easy, I'm curious, have you ever done anything to
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yes, but you bloody well know such native-chosen endonyms are now standard in Canada and increasingly so.
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to these articles, or have you only been playing games with their names?18:25, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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of the older/more archaic renderings of the name. A comment made elsewhere, on the RM at
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I would have at least moved this title to match the tribal council usage, but both
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I will continue such searches in a while, a friend has just arrived for a visit.
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ethnolinguistic community, CANENGL applies and the Wuikinuxv version gets over
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for the spelling that Kwami first moved this to, claiming it was most common,
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though some of those are for "Rivers Inlet" + "people" in the general sense.
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in the same region, maybe 20-30km away (the map on that page has no scale).
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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Unknown-importance Indigenous peoples of North America articles
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As a by-the-way, the spelling for the lake named after them is
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Please read the closer's comments on a similar title-debate on
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there are 7,370 results for "Wuikinuxv" excluding "wikipedia"
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these moves before unilaterally moving. Obviously there is
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Knowledge:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America
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WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America articles
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Knowledge:Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names
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Template:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America
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Stub-Class Indigenous peoples of North America articles
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Knowledge:Naming conventions (ethnicities and tribes)
861:(that BC Names citation for that name is from 1998),
813:, I've gone to the BC government's website and run:
208:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
93:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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revert and then discuss and try and get your change
866:"Wuikinuxv -Oweekeno" there are 127 search results
768:which mandate the use of "Wuikinuxv" by precedent.
135:This article has not yet received a rating on the
374:These people chose this spelling for THEMSELVES
90:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America
817:a search for "Wuikinuxv, yielding 268 results
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809:As I've done for the primarytopic debate at
720:naming convention for ethnicities and tribes
121:Indigenous peoples of North America articles
540:User:Kwamikagami moved it on July 24, 2013
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848:for the construction "Oweekeno/Wuikinuxv"
998:Low-importance British Columbia articles
821:"The 'Wuikinuxv' or the 'First Nation'"
638:In answer to Brown-Haired Girl's query
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988:Low-importance Canada-related articles
842:there are 1050 results for "Wuikinuxv"
838:On the Government of Canada website:
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993:Stub-Class British Columbia articles
202:This article is within the scope of
87:This article is within the scope of
652:Shuswap, Ktunaxa vs Kootenay etc.
479:are already redirects so *I* can't.
353:a consensus supporting this move. -
112:Indigenous peoples of North America
103:indigenous peoples of North America
70:Indigenous peoples of North America
49:It is of interest to the following
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879:14 on the Canadian government site
439:tribal council usage is "Oweekeno"
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877:on the BC government site and
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289:There are other refs than the
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766:Talk:St'at'imc#Requested move
629:06:59, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
591:15:28, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
557:18:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
302:while "Owekeeno people" gets
264:This article is supported by
216:and see a list of open tasks.
109:and see a list of open tasks.
1003:All WikiProject Canada pages
919:which is at the junction of
603:WP:Strong national sentiment
267:WikiProject British Columbia
222:Knowledge:WikiProject Canada
99:Indigenous peoples in Canada
225:Template:WikiProject Canada
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937:12:17, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
900:11:27, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
811:Lillooet, British Columbia
801:02:38, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
778:02:30, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
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732:02:37, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
527:16:51, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
489:11:53, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
466:11:52, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
384:who should have had to RM
248:project's importance scale
137:project's importance scale
883:none on the BC Names site
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363:18:09, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
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949:Please do not modify it.
505:Please do not modify it.
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291:http://www.wuikinuxv.net
306:. Rivers Inlet people
228:Canada-related articles
825:yields the same number
708:Talk:Holikachuk people
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39:This article is rated
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855:"Oweekeno -Wuikinuxv
293:one I just provided
18:Talk:Owekeeno people
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701:to the effect that
614:is not a reason to
408:Kwamikagami English
395:Rivers Inlet people
347:propose and discuss
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913:"Owikeno"
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737:Support
694:COMMENT
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563:Comment
410:.......
365:Uyvsdi
246:on the
915:as is
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449:should
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295:google
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160:Canada
47:scale.
921:Hardy
831:from
576:Brown
573:). --
515:moved
378:squat
332:kwami
933:talk
923:and
896:talk
881:and
864:for
853:for
774:talk
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728:talk
714:and
685:talk
658:talk
625:talk
553:talk
523:talk
517:. --
485:talk
475:and
462:talk
424:also
359:talk
336:talk
320:talk
310:get
308:does
873:TWO
672:any
649:why
616:not
607:now
584:• (
544:and
519:BDD
433:add
386:all
382:you
351:not
238:Low
131:???
964::
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730:)
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660:)
627:)
565:.
555:)
534:→
525:)
487:)
464:)
429:DO
361:)
338:)
322:)
163::
97:,
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850:,
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270:.
250:.
139:.
53::
20:)
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