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OK then just add the
Hungarian variants in the introduction (with literally translations), so that everybody knows that they are correct (I remember that someone delete one of the version I have used here, because he did not knew it was "official"). The Hungarian name is decisive, of course, because
1319:
I cannot find the webpage but I looked up all the four
Hungarian name variants used in the 19th century. As far as I see they were synonyms. The proposed version is a translation of the German name which in Hungarian would be "szent magyar istvánkorona" or something like that. This version has never
1177:
That is quite obvious, but the question is whether
Kingdom of Hungary was not ALSO the official name, analogously to - and the A-H article is wrong in this part (and unfortunately it is me who wrote this wrongly there) - the "Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy", which was ALSO the fully official name, as I
1309:
I am quite sure that the name changed between ...of the holy
Hungarian crown, ...of the holy crown of St. Stephen, ...of the holy Stephen crown or something like that over the 18th / 19th century, i.e. there were at least three names in the Hungarian language (the German name was just a translation
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The "Lands..." is a long and artificial sounding term so I'm sure that in everyday usage the Koh was more frequent, especially when there wasn't any special need to express sophisticated constitutional connections. But the legal meaning was different and the two was distinguished. See the official
1140:
It is certainly not synonimous with the
Kingdom of Hungary. This term expressed the connection between the Koh and Croatia and other historical claims. Very important to enhance that Croatia was never part of Hungary, it is a special connection somewhere between the personal and real union. The
1470:
Article says: Group of countries connected by personal union to the kingdom of hungary. What group of countries? There was only
Croatia and it was ruled by Hungary. The relation of Hungary and Croatia is disputed, it can be called personal union. Nonetheless, Croatia was part of the kingdom of
1510:
I do not understand the existance of the coat of arms of
Kingodm of Dalmatia (three lion heads on the blue background) inside the coat of arms of the Lands of the holy crown. The question appears if we look at the map provided that does not include the Kingdom of Dalmatia. Any valid
1229:
In the
Austrian-Hungarian Ausgleich Acts typically the long term is used in the title and the first paragraphs and later only "Magyarország" but I think this is only a practical symplification. In the Croatian Ausgleich Act "Magyarország" is used always in the narrow meaning.
2010:
It should be noted that other wikis very often look up to en: on such relatively minor topics, and they also often simply translate the
English articles. We'd have to analyze the local referencing on those articles to be really sure this consensus isn't artificial.
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found out recently. But since you are in
Budapest, you should have more quickly available sources about this, that's why I am asking. I am quite sure that KoH is also used in the wide sense, I am not sure to what extent this usage was official at that time.
1489:? That article should be also merged into Austrian Empire?? sorry but this sounds little nationalistic.. Cisleithania was a name of the Austrian part of Austria-Hungary. Transleithania was an term for the Hungarian part of Austria-Hungary. Reader
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I have not expressed it correctly, what I mean is that the term Kingdom of Hungary was/is also used for the Lands of the... in a wider sense, and I have not checked it, but I even think to remember that this was the case during Austria-Hungary.
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In Google the "Holy Hungarian" version got 282 hit, the "Crown of St" 228 and the present only 33. It seems that we should rename the article. Personally I vote for the "Crown of St" version (not so terribly long).
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is only a blank page from this talk page was created until now; Talk:Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen never has its archive page until now, I think it is a good idea to complete this page merger.
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existed so I oppose changing. "Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen" was the most frequented one and prefered by Ferenc Deák. "Holy" was only my mistake when I created the article.
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Not official but in my old Pallas Lexikon Croatia is "one of the countries of the Lands of..." and my old geographical atlas from 1906 uses the term at the map of Austria-Hungary
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The exact name in Hungarian changed over the history. I do not remember where anymore, but there were Hungarian texts on the internet, where the names are listed and commented.
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The Croatian-Hungarian Ausgleich (1868/XXX) explains thoroughly the whole conception using the expressions "Szent István Koronájának Országai" and "Magyar Korona Országai"
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960:, a collaborative effort to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please
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Yes, but this is the translation of the German name. The "Crown of" version is the translation of the Hungarian name - and we speak about Hungary and Croatia...
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True for many but I doubt it for, say, the respective German articles. Anyway, I wasn't using it to advance an argument but merely putting it out there. —
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1188:"Austria-Hungarian Monarchy" was one of the official names? That surprises me indeed. Could you give me some sources, where I can read more about it? Thanxs
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hungary and had limited autonomy. The lands of St Stephen and Kingdom of Hungary are the same state. Kingdom of hungary =/= Hungary proper.--
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As an aside, all interwikis use their respective language version of the current title, "Lands of the (Holy) Crown of Saint Stephen" (
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of the Austrian ministry of Education, Science and Culture it should be the "the lands of the Holy Hungarian Crown of Saint Stephen".
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The Act of Ausgleich (1867/XII) speaks about the "Magyar Korona Országai" similary to the Economic Ausgleich Acts (1867/XIV-XVI)
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In many cases, the official name will be the best choice to fit these criteria. However, in many other cases, it will not be.
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and the article has adequate information about its unofficial name. Actually this move is quite senseless in my opinion.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
1711:" is still a very awkward name, it is not informative at all. The territory this article talks about was basically the
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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I'd like to write about problems with this term, for example Dalmatia, Galicia etc but I haven't got any time now.
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of the Hungarian name, I suppose). But as mentioned above, I cannot find the webpage anymore. Maybe Zello can.
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That is the proper name and this is what is officially used in Austria-Hungary to denote "Transleithania".
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conception of the LHCSSt was like an "eternal" union between two (or more) de iure independent countries.
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Some official names are never used except in legal or other esoteric documents and for theatrical effect.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1168:". Actually the synomym of the LHSSt is not the KoH but the casual Austrian expression Transleithania.
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Ok, please someone tell me what's the difference between kingdom of Hungary and lands of St Stephen--
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Image copyright problem with Image:Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia (1867 - 1918).gif
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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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Ah I see you have added the variants already... And I will remove the "Holy" from the title.
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Knowledge (XXG) does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title.
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linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an
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name of Austria-Hungary: "Die im Reichsrat vertretenen Königreiche und Länder und
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I think the exact translation would be Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen...
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In short: yes. We can discuss though whether we should translate the word "
1248:? At least, that would be the exact translation of the German expression.
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1623:" to this article, but otherwise the current name is just fine as it is.
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Translate and keep in sync with the project versions in other languages:
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Image:Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia (1867 - 1918).gif
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OK, and "Hungarian kingdom" or "KoH" appears nowhere in the wide sense?
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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all articles tagged for this project that have not been assessed for
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That this article is linked to from the image description page.
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on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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Romania-related articles from the Romanian Knowledge (XXG)
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I understand that you also support, by analogy, the move
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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into Talk:Lands of the Crown of Saint Stephen. Because
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Kingdoms and Lands Represented in the Imperial Council
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Kingdoms and Lands Represented in the Imperial Council
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
1577:– For consistency with the name of the other part of
1117:] The anchor (#Proclamation of 11 and 13 November)
763:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
658:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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1619:. We may create a link (redirect) from the title "
1403:Lands of the Holy Hungarian Crown of Saint Stephen
1166:die Länder der heiligen ungarischen Stephanskrone
1246:Lands of the Holy Hungarian Crown of St. Stephen
1392:. For assistance on the image use policy, see
8:
1723:. So the current title is more descriptive.
1198:I looked up some sources within easy reach:
1042:on 12:32, 5 January 2014. The former page's
970:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Former countries
882:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject European history
446:Postage stamps and postal history of Romania
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1979:"Kingdoms and Lands Represented in...". —
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38:It is of interest to the following
2130:We don't merge talk page usually.
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777:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Serbia
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1616:" were just unofficial names
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994:This article is supported by
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771:and see a list of open tasks.
666:and see a list of open tasks.
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109:and see a list of open tasks.
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371:
346:
321:reach at least
289:
246:High-importance
229:
226:
223:
220:
219:
193:
188:
186:
167:High‑importance
166:
137:High-importance
120:
117:
114:
111:
110:
88:
83:
81:
62:High‑importance
61:
29:
12:
11:
5:
2263:
2261:
2253:
2252:
2247:
2242:
2237:
2232:
2227:
2222:
2217:
2212:
2207:
2202:
2197:
2192:
2187:
2182:
2177:
2172:
2167:
2162:
2157:
2147:
2146:
2143:
2142:
2125:
2123:
2101:Transleithania
2087:
2084:
2082:
2081:
2071:requested move
2049:
2048:
2047:
2046:
2045:
2044:
2043:
2042:
2041:
2040:
2039:
2038:
1999:
1998:
1997:
1996:
1995:
1994:
1993:
1992:
1709:Transleithania
1702:
1701:
1700:
1699:
1621:Transleithania
1614:Transleithania
1575:Transleithania
1569:
1567:
1549:
1548:
1538:requested move
1532:
1530:
1529:Requested move
1527:
1525:
1468:
1467:
1466:
1465:
1404:
1401:
1386:
1385:
1384:
1383:
1380:
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1210:
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1206:
1203:
1196:
1195:
1137:
1134:
1131:
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1124:
1123:
1122:
1106:case-sensitive
1100:
1099:
1098:
1096:
1084:
1083:
1080:permanent link
1076:the discussion
1072:Transleithania
1064:
1052:
1051:
1046:now serves to
1031:Transleithania
1022:
1010:
1009:
1006:
1005:
1002:
1001:
992:
982:
981:
979:
952:
940:
939:
928:
916:
915:
912:
911:
900:
894:
893:
891:
874:the discussion
861:
860:
844:
832:
831:
823:
811:
810:
807:
806:
799:Low-importance
795:
789:
788:
786:
769:the discussion
756:
755:
739:
727:
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724:Low‑importance
718:
706:
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702:
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694:Low-importance
690:
684:
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664:the discussion
651:
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647:Croatia portal
634:
622:
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619:Low‑importance
613:
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486:Проект:Румыния
468:
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412:Disambiguation
407:
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216:the discussion
212:related topics
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195:Romania portal
182:
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107:the discussion
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90:Hungary portal
77:
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2201:
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2168:
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2158:
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2018:
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1966:
1962:
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857:Europe portal
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752:Serbia portal
742:
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623:
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611:
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529:
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523:
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482:(in Romanian)
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443:
442:
440:
438:
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420:Disambiguate
419:
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414:
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398:
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91:
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78:
75:
71:
70:
66:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
2089:
2075:
2068:
2051:
2029:
1983:
1976:
1885:Cisleithania
1833:
1829:
1825:
1817:
1812:
1806:
1805:
1802:(130 hits).
1796:
1789:
1769:Cisleithania
1754:
1750:
1746:
1738:
1733:
1727:
1726:
1720:
1716:
1712:
1708:
1704:
1703:
1680:
1672:
1664:
1654:
1650:
1646:
1638:
1633:
1627:
1626:
1620:
1613:
1610:Cisleithania
1609:
1587:Cisleithania
1583:Cisleithania
1568:
1552:
1550:
1542:
1535:
1524:
1511:explanation?
1509:
1497:78.1.170.124
1487:Cisleithania
1484:
1469:
1406:
1387:
1352:
1338:
1328:
1318:
1308:
1299:
1274:
1265:
1256:
1243:
1228:
1219:
1211:
1197:
1176:
1165:
1162:
1152:
1143:
1139:
1112:
1104:Anchors are
1101:
1082:) was Merge.
1026:this version
995:
955:
903:
863:
798:
758:
693:
653:
577:
550:
542:
525:
520:Make use in
512:
511:
499:Unreferenced
497:
496:
489:(in Russian)
454:
453:
434:
433:
410:
409:
375:
374:
364:
350:
349:
329:
307:
306:
245:
201:
136:
96:
40:WikiProjects
1491:—Preceding
1449:read this:
1410:—Preceding
1367:explanation
572:. Organize
475:(in French)
385:Review the
261:To-do list:
30:Start-class
2149:Categories
2132:Matthew hk
2056:Fakirbakir
1799:" version
1776:Jaro88slav
1689:Jaro88slav
1595:Jaro88slav
1556:Mike Cline
1390:FairuseBot
1353:The image
464:Translate
426:get points
2030:AjaxSmack
1984:AjaxSmack
1975:), i.e.,
1790:Reichsrat
1715:plus the
1581:, namely
1553:Not moved
1040:this edit
555:or other
530:from the
456:Translate
1493:unsigned
1424:contribs
1412:unsigned
1359:fair use
1292:Gugganij
1250:Gugganij
1190:Gugganij
522:articles
1612:" and "
1240:Moving?
1068:merging
1044:history
906:on the
801:on the
696:on the
669:Croatia
660:Croatia
616:Croatia
562:Create
541:Review
524:of the
444:Expand
377:Cleanup
366:quality
336:WP:GOOD
325:-status
319:Romania
275:history
248:on the
221:Romania
208:Romania
164:Romania
139:on the
112:Hungary
103:Hungary
59:Hungary
1705:Oppose
1669:WP:UCN
774:Serbia
765:Serbia
721:Serbia
436:Expand
361:Assess
352:Assess
36:scale.
1685:WP:ON
1677:WP:ON
1473:Bizso
1437:Bizso
1416:Bizso
1322:Zello
1302:Zello
1278:Zello
1259:Zello
1232:Zello
1213:Zello
1170:Zello
1146:Zello
1070:with
1038:with
513:Other
328:Help
317:Help
285:purge
280:watch
2136:talk
2104:and
2094:and
2060:talk
2017:talk
2013:Joy
1830:ταλκ
1810:œrte
1780:talk
1751:ταλκ
1731:œrte
1693:talk
1651:ταλκ
1631:œrte
1599:talk
1560:talk
1517:talk
1501:talk
1477:talk
1459:talk
1455:fz22
1441:talk
1420:talk
1396:. --
1341:Juro
1332:Juro
1312:Juro
1268:Juro
1222:Juro
1180:Juro
1156:Juro
1102:Tip:
898:High
557:work
424:and
334:get
270:edit
240:High
131:High
2073:.
1977:not
1671:).
1589:to
1028:of
793:Low
688:Low
2151::
2138:)
2062:)
2019:)
2011:--
1973:zh
1971:,
1969:uk
1967:,
1965:sv
1963:,
1961:sl
1959:,
1957:sk
1955:,
1953:ru
1951:,
1949:pt
1947:,
1945:pl
1943:,
1941:no
1939:,
1937:nl
1935:,
1933:lt
1931:,
1929:la
1927:,
1925:ja
1923:,
1921:it
1919:,
1917:hr
1915:,
1913:fr
1911:,
1909:et
1907:,
1905:es
1903:,
1901:eo
1899:,
1897:de
1895:,
1893:cs
1891:,
1889:bg
1881:uk
1879:,
1877:sv
1875:,
1873:sr
1871:,
1869:ru
1867:,
1865:pl
1863:,
1861:nl
1859:,
1857:it
1855:,
1853:hr
1851:,
1849:gl
1847:,
1845:cs
1782:)
1771:→
1695:)
1679:)
1601:)
1573:→
1562:)
1540:.
1519:)
1503:)
1479:)
1461:)
1453:--
1443:)
1426:)
1422:•
934::
484:,
477:,
323:GA
2134:(
2058:(
2015:(
1887:(
1834:}
1826:{
1819:a
1813:F
1807:K
1778:(
1755:}
1747:{
1740:a
1734:F
1728:K
1691:(
1687:)
1683:(
1675:(
1667:(
1655:}
1647:{
1640:a
1634:F
1628:K
1597:(
1558:(
1515:(
1499:(
1475:(
1457:(
1439:(
1418:(
1121:.
1078:(
1000:.
964:.
910:.
805:.
700:.
538:)
534:(
515::
508:.
502::
459::
439::
415::
380::
355::
312::
252:.
210:-
143:.
42::
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