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driving force behind it, and according to Tony Wills' history (based on CTR's writings themselves), took the step of legal incorporation only to ensure that if he died, donated funds would continue to flow into the society for the purpose he intended rather than into his estate. But any encyclopedic reference to the history of the society and its series of presidents has to start with Conley, even though there is little evidence he was anything but an administrative figure allowing
Russell to write. It may be a minor puzzle for some, but as you say, it's all explained in the article.
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Tower Bible and Tract
Society of Pennyslvania (as indicated by the space between Watch and Tower). If it DOES mean the NY corporation, then it needs to be fixed (Watchtower) or if it is a misquote by the magazine it should be noted. I can't access the source from where I am so I can't determine which it is.
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This sentence: "In 2001 Newsday listed the Watch Tower
Society as one of New York's forty richest corporations, with revenues exceeding $ 950 million." is currently under the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of NY's listing. However, if the above quote is correct, the reference refers to the Watch
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I tried several times listing internal guidelines as well as a small list of both non-profit and commercial entities the Watch Tower and Bible Tract
Society operates but some WP zealot keeps resetting it claiming it is superfluous. I believe this type of information should at least be available as
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At first, I'd opined that the addition of a footnote was 'sufficient' to allow Conley's name to remain in that table, but I no longer think so and wish this discussion to continue. This article is explicitly about CORPORATIONS, and Conley's involvement in the
Society's administration seems to have
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which would also suggest the
Pennsylvania corporation. However, the address is unambiguously the (previous) address of the New York corporation. It may be that the author of the source article could not identify the president of the New York subsidiary and gave the president of the parent company
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AuthorityTam, it seems you're suggesting that we remove a fact solely on the basis that it is not what some people believe to be true. The information is factual, sourced, and directly relevant to the subject. It is unclear how the information would be detrimental to 'casual readers' to see that
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The problem is that although the history of
Jehovah's Witnesses and the WTS is commonly said to begin with Russell incorporating the WTS, the fact is it had a brief but significant prior existence before its legal incorporation under Conley's presidency. There's little doubt that Russell was the
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isn't 'several times', but aside from that, the minor corporations in question do not appear to be particularly notable. Unverifiable 'internal guidelines' aren't reliable third-party sources. Additionally, the claim that "Most ... congregations ... within the organization are now incorporated
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Rather than "an article", I'd intended to write "a table", which makes my first comment in this thread far less controversial. I hadn't intended to suggest that Conley be removed altogether from the article's body, but only from the list particular to seemingly
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The source says: "WATCHTOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, 25 Columbia
Heights, Brooklyn, 11201, 718-560-5000, www.watchtower.org, Revenue: $ 951 million, Industry: Publishing, President: Don Adams, Employees: 3,181 in Brooklyn (volunteers)".
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article. I still don't see much merit in your argument against Conley's inclusion, but I also agree the table is not essential at the
Corporations of Jehovah's Witnesses article, which need contain only a brief summary of the WTBTS spinout article.
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Even if he doesn't arrive via such a link, a merely casual reader is likely to skip immediately to the table of
Presidents and completely miss the detail about the pre-incorporated WT which is in the middle of a paragraph
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Though your purpose for the information seemed unclear, your statement here about "what the WTBTS tries to internally claim" would seem to suggest you intend some kind of 'exposé', regarding which, see
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Thank you for letting me know. Unfortunately that doesn't help, as Don Adams wasn't president of the New York company, he was President of the Pennsylvania corporation. Maybe
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its incorporation. The body of this article still discusses Conley, but in a manner which is far more readily coherent. I'd prefer consensus before performing such an edit.
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Conley's presidency prior to the society's incorporation is directly relevant to the history of the corporation, and the article very clearly states that he was president
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I have added a note so that anyone arriving immediately at the table can confirm that Russell was first president of the incorporated society.--
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to incorporation. There is no reason not to mention him at all, and it is unclear how anyone might be 'confused' by the current presentation.--
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information to somebody doing research into the WTBTS besides what the WTBTS tries to internally claim are the official corporations.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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appropriately discusses both that current corporation and its unincorporated predecessor, it seems inappropriate to interject
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as its first president, not Conley. To suggest otherwise seems likely to distract and confuse casual readers. Discussion? --
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090404131420/http://www.heraldmag.org:80/olb/Contents/history/gr8%20battle.htm
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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instead. The statement should not be changed from the New York corporation without a clearer source.--
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My concern was and is for merely casual readers, rather than those familiar with Watch Tower history.
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Since he had never been a corporate president, I'd earlier (see above) objected to the inclusion of
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after all. Regardless, the article seems sufficiently improved with the additional note. --
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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Corporations of Jehovah's Witnesses#International Bible Students Association
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In articles that are about other branches of the Bible Student movement,
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focused explicitly on CORPORATE entities. The corporation now known as
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The original version of the source gave Milton Henschel as president,
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https://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?361674
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Bible Student movement#International Bible Students Association
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http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/history/gr8%20battle.htm
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Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania#Presidents
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Conley was the first president, when it is in fact the case.--
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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The answer seems simple to me: move the Presidents table to
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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984:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
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Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
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Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
274:This article has not yet received a rating on the
18:Talk:Legal instruments of Jehovah's Witnesses
558:; significantly, the article is explicitly about
770:separately" would seem to be entirely unfounded.
970:This message was posted before February 2018.
860:This message was posted before February 2018.
739:Listing of Corporations of Jehovah's Witnesses
627:Corporations of Jehovah's Witnesses#Presidents
468:Corporations of Jehovah's Witnesses#Presidents
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1168:Top-importance Jehovah's Witnesses articles
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1173:WikiProject Christianity articles
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972:After February 2018
862:After February 2018
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107:Christianity portal
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746:—Preceding
416:Watch Tower
246:legal field
1147:Categories
1033:Report bug
923:Report bug
711:diff there
705:Done. See
644:and before
409:an article
233:Law portal
1016:this tool
1009:this tool
906:this tool
899:this tool
707:diff here
75:Witnesses
1091:Vyselink
1085:Jeffro77
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1022:Cheers.—
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748:unsigned
670:BlackCab
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306:Archives
1072:Neonate
1043:Change?
946:my edit
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367:, not
47:scale.
1067:Paleo
767:Twice
439:prior
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713:and
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477:. --
456:talk
428:talk
418:had
386:talk
355:IBSA
148:High
990:RfC
960:to
880:RfC
857:).
845:or
830:to
778:.--
371:.--
270:???
251:Law
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