399:(5) demeans and trivializes - no. possibly the existence of other entities(especially pop culture ones) with the name Leonardo "demeans and trivializes" him, but making it possible for someone to search for "Leonardo" and find what they are looking for does not. It is merely and simply a way of fixing a article title(Leonardo) which is ambiguous. It has nothing to do with fine art, cartoon characters, originality, importance or any of the above; it's just a disambiguation.
773:"Experts" in Art History, (Martin Kemp, Carlo Pedretti, Charles Nicholl, and even myself - Stephen 'from Douglas') always refer to the Master as Leonardo, and Martin and Charles use the Italian pronunciation 'LAY-on-ardo'. Like Ham (above) I jokingly refer to you-know-who as 'of Nazareth' or 'of Bethlehem'. The entry in the baptism register was Leonardo di Ser Piero da Vinci; some texts say that Leonardo was born in the village of Anchiano, near Vinci!
31:
317:(a): The original Leoanardo is vastly more famous and more important than any cartoon character. (Lest you say "what about Mickey Mouse", remember that even Mickey has only been famous for less than a century, and can reasonably be expected to become less famous over time - a proces that has already started. Leonardo has been famous for vastly longer, and can reasonably be expected to
1227:. Obviously, Salai needs to be introduced. I have added a short paragraph to that effect. Discussion about Leonardo's alleged homosexuality should go in some other section, since most of it is speculation and interpretation by much later historians and/or critics. Also, any discussion of that topic should be written carefully and sourced extensively and precisely.
681:
that his 'aerial screw' resembles contemporary machines. Similarly by over-emphasising the link between
Leonardo and robotics you are ascribing a hagiographic mythology that is in no way compareable to reality. Try to cut down on words that wouldn't have existed in the Italian Renaissance as this is completely ahistoric.
362:
Sure. Some people are lamentably ill-educated (something for which television, and
American television in particular can take a great deal of the blame, by the way). However, it is not our task to pander to the ignorant by reducing the Knowledge to the level of the lowest common denominator. Leonardo
346:
The original
Leonardo is vastly more famous to you and me. To every user? I think not. A "reasonable person" might expect to find the turtle here, if they were 10 years old (as a portion of our users are). Not only that, but I fail to see how the article is harmed by a mild, inobtrusive notice. I
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It is thought that the plaster on which the work was being done was badly made, but for whatever reason the colors on the painting's upper portion ran when the artist attempted to dry the work with the heat from a charcoal fire. The damage might have been repaired, but
Leonardo abandoned the project
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About the secret or hidden meanings in Da Vinci Code; it is popularly believed that his famous painting Mona Lisa was a self portrait. As he was once accused of homosexuality, and we can't see he had any relationships with women, it seems that he might be a homosexual. Otherwise portraying himself
375:
mention ninja turtles in this context, then at least have the decency to do so at the foot of the article where it is not so offensive. But in the hope that you will find this more acceptable, instead of moving the offending line this time, I'll simply delete it. Replace it at the foot if you insist
1211:
I was surprised by the paragraph that begins with: "In 1506, Leonardo met Count
Francesco Melzi, the 15 year old son of a Lombard aristocrat. Salai eventually accepted Melzi's continued presence and the three undertook journeys throughout Italy." Nowhere in the text before the second sentence is a
757:
Given that 'da Vinci' means 'from Vinci', 'da Vinci, Leonardo' is surely as incongruous as 'of Arc, Joan', filed under 'O'. The difficulty is with names like Van Eyck, Van Dyck, Van Gogh etc. The last two spent some time in
England where it stands to reason that 'V' would have been treated as the
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There are serious anachronisms that need to be addressed, or, at the very least explained either by use of description or sketch illustrations. It is impossible for example to say that
Leonardo designed a helicopter centuries before Igor Sikorsky without giving at least in some way the impression
557:
Has anybody considered mentioning the book 'The Da Vinci Code' anywhere in the article? I'm not sure if it is appropriate, but maybe it should be written about? I'd like to know what parts of the book are truth, what parts are fiction, and what parts are exaggerated. -- ] 13:20, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
1215:
After going through the history of the page, I found there was an edit performed on July 29th that removed a whole section on rumors about
Leonardo's homosexuality that explained who Salai was. I think the rest of the paragraph makes very little sense without the three paragraphs that have been
574:
Most of da things dat he says in this book is very convincing. Ang the author himself claims dat the backdrop to his fictious story is based on truth. I guess every part of the story besides da part about
Sauniere dying, Sophie n Robert's whole quest 2 figure out da codes, n silas is true.
1182:'s works seem to be of doubtful accuracy and he may well have been liable to glorify a bit. Personally, I'm more inclined to believe the 1911 Britannica; at the very least, it seems to be unclear in whose arms Leonardo died. I have therefore removed both the mention from the text
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as a female doesn't make any sense. Either this discovery is wrong or it creates a lot of confusion that why a man would paint himself as a woman. If this is true that Mona Lisa is a self portrait then there is definitely a hidden meaning of his painting. (202.125.147.199)
628:
Maybe we should consider why every serious
Leonardo scholar, and here I am thinking of Martin Kemp, Goldsheider and Frere have /consistently/ made no reference to any such membership of a Priory of Sion. Please let us distinguish myth from fact or wikipedia is useless.
194:'s deletion about the unfinished monumental horse in Milan, perhaps it would be a good idea to list da Vinci's accomplishments, separated into completed & proposed. (da Vinci had a long list of incomplete projects, which suggest to me that he had
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changed references from "da Vinci" to "Vinci", giving the edit summary "Arguement could be made for key under L for Leonardo too, but certainly not under 'da'". Encyclopedia Britannica has the main article under L, with references from V
300:
Fair dinkum, this disambiguation mania has got to stop. It is utterly riduiculous for us to walk around pretending we are making a real encyclopedia when we do stupid 5th-grade stuff like starting an entry on someone of the stature :-)-:
1305:
Just a thought: maybe somebody who knows how (I don't since I'm new to Knowledge) could take the second (much more famous) portrait of Leonardo and place it at the beginning of the page instead of that odd picture of him wearing a hat?
393:(3) wouldn't expect to find anything else at this page - at the page "Leonardo da Vinci", probably not; at the page "Leonardo"(which is a redirect here), absolutely - it's the name of more than one entity - that is, it's ambiguous.
741:
Check out alphabetization of de Morgan and de Moivre in Knowledge and in Britannica, then! I will not argue about which is the most correct (in Leonardo's case, I think it is L). But D still seems at least as reasonable as V to
1238:
I don't think that those paragraphs belong at the top of the article. It almost seems as though the discussion of whether Leonardo is a homosexual is placed as being more relevant than discussion about his art, inventions etc.
1126:, not on Leonardo; it doesn't say anything on Leonardo's death except "Leonardo came to France in 1516, where he was given the manor of Cloux outside Amboise by the king, and he died there three years later." In contrast, the
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There is no solid evidence that he was homosexual, it is purely speculative conjecture based on a twisting of phrases taken out of context. Da Vinci should be here to defend himself. Shame on Knowledge for allowing such
147:
What was said of Michelangelo? That he didn't have relations with women and that he was anonymously accused of homosexual relations? What exactly is being dismissed as legend here? I tried a different phrasing. --AxelBoldt
387:(1) importance - not a reason not to provide a disambig notice; they are for providing links to other possible meanings of the term searched for. The relative importance of the meanings is not a factor, the ambiguity is.
1018:
Hello. I think the image is not correctly depicting Leonardo. I suggest replacing it with the "standard" image of Leonardo (his scetched self-portrait) instead of this make-up version created by some else much later.
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Unless any of you are blind, you should see no similarities between Leonardo's portrait(s) and the Mona Lisa. Why would he call himself Lisa, anyway? lol, if you are blind, no offense meant... -Claire the Anonymous
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writes "King Francis, then at his court of St Germain-en-Laye, is said to have wept for the loss of such a servant; that he was present beside the death-bed and held the dying painter in his arms is a familiar but
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The harm this trivial and obtrusive notice does is obvious: it distracts the reader's attention away from the subject matter of the article, and demeans and trivialises an important subject. If you absolutely
980:
Shouldn't it be mentioned in the article? Right now I was inclined to remove te vegetarian cat, but 15.000 edit experience on nl:wikipedia told me to ask first .... not everybody might think that way ....
396:(4) distracts the reader's attention - in a small way, but it is a case of ambiguity, and for those who are looking for other Leonardos, it is more helpful than the mild distraction of a one line notice.
669:
The picture at the top badly needs a more informative caption. Is it a self-portrait? Is it a portrait by someone else, and then by whom? What year is it from? Where can the original be found today?
257:
Is there any way we might turn this into a seperate article? I know he's getting a lot of attention with The DaVinci Code, plus I'd like to go into a bit more detail on his appearances in DC Comics.
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I would concur that Leonardo is of such singular fame that he could be listed under L. But interpolations such as de, da, von, etc. are never considered for the purposes of alphabetizing surnames.
414:, where it does look absurd? If this is all about people being able to find the Ninja Turtle by typing in "Leonardo", which I agree is desirable, that'll be better achieved by turning the redirect
957:
I am terribly sorry but what does the category vegetarians do on this article. Nowhere in this article it states he was a vegetarian. It would be kinda difficult to find that out wouldn't it?
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Leonardo appears to never have had intimate relations with women and was once anonymously accused of homosexual contact with a 17 year old model, but considering that the same was said of
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first letter of their surnames. Perhaps that also explains 'de Morgan' under 'D'? And we always refer to 'Rembrandt', never 'van Rijn'; 'Giotto' not 'di Bondone' and so on.
281:
It is hard to imagine that LDV (555 in Roman numerals) was not a filthy pervert. His signature "pointed finger" was his medieval version of today's obscene gesture. (Anon.)
578:
Whereas it is agreed upon that Dan Brown's mention should mainly be in article on da vinci code, a fleeting mention is warranted here too and thus i have done the needful.
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That upwardly-pointing finger is not limited to Leonardo, much less being his "signature", but is a standard rhetorical gesture that every student of rhetoric knew. --
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and of other artists too, this seems to be more a popular legend than a fact, originated perhaps because of detailed frequent paintings or sculpting of naked men.
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91:, which aims to add references to Knowledge articles . As such, I've been adding some refs to books via the Google Print service. Two errors found so far:
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Er, well, when I was looking at the history of the article to see what you changed, I thought I saw that you deleted that paragraph. I looked again: it
376:(I argue against that too, but not terribly strongly) but I will continue to remove this silliness from the head of the article as often as necessary.
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his full name--it's not how he's usually referred to--so the inconvenience of that leading to a disambig page is minimal.--] 21:36, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
475:
Then we will not need to worry about the "stupidity" of "ninja turtle" appearing on this article, and the disambig message would become similiar to
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1149:"C'est là qu'il mourut, le 2 mai 1519, au Clos-Lucé dans les bras de son élève Francisco Melzi (et non de François 1er, comme le veut la légende)."
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While I don't think that extensive details about 'The Da Vinci Code' belong here, I do think that one sentence and a link would be appropriate. --
581:
Just because you say it's agreed upon, doesn't mean it is. Clearly stated by Antandrus, the Davinci code and its "conjecture" should be in the
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from D. Dan Brown obviously saw "da Vinci" as the last name. Though he is not a truth witness, I think that a reference from D is sensible.--
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indicates that "Cloux" and "Clos Lucé" are different names for the same place. I've changed the "Professional life" section accordingly.
390:(2) this is the original - also, not a factor, the point is to fix ambiguity, not to make any claim about derivative or original status.
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There is no comment on the edit. Does anyone have an opinion as to why the three paragraphs that were removed should be removed?
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One or two paragraphs giving a brief record of the person's life. Remember, on a print-out, this is the information on page #1.
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Doesn't the confusion come from assuming that "da Vinci" was a surname, that Leonardo's parents were Mr and Mrs da Vinci? --
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The Metropolitan Museum of Art book says that tax records show that he (Leonardo) was living with his grandparents at age 5
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to look ridiculous? No? Well, then.) Most people looking for Leonardo da Vinci won't type merely "Leonardo", even if that
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into a disambiguation page, surely. I just have, and am removing the notice from the top of this Featured article. (Do we
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When I look at the Mona Lisa I see a woman and nothing else. There's no hint that it could be a man diguised as a woman.
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I would love to see something here about Leonardo's role in the birth and evolution of perspective, ideally linking to
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and did not return to it, some say because he was more interested in the work he was then doing on the flight of birds.
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I have re-added the notice.(with a slight change in phrasing). I do not find the argument against it to be persuasive.
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I too would like to know what parts of the book were true/exaggerated/fiction--but this should be written up in the
326:(b) The original Leoanardo is indeed the original - i.e., this Leonardo is the one that the others are named after.
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Sorry for the rant, but there has been quite a bit of this absurd nonsense lately, and I just spat the dummy.
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be famous long after Mickey Mouse is just a footnote to history, and the Ninja Turtles are utterly forgotten.)
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According to the commons image page, the one at the top is a self-portrait also. Probably not right, though.
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615:"Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code revolves around a conspiracy which is hinted at in Leonardo's Last Supper."
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Leonardo is his name; Vinci is the place where he was born and not a surname in the common English sense.
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if that seems justified. But in this case there are three good reasons not to go into silly mode.
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has a nice way of dividing his life into 3 'periods' which I thought would be good to have here:
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Early Years - major experiences (especially those contributing to later achievments, education.
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By the way, it's a common mistake to tell he invented helicopter, since helicopters fly using
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Is this article now worth nomination for Featured Article Status? Fulfils... I think most of
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da Vinci's employment with Ludovico Sforza commenced in 1478, not 1482 as previously stated.
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Information on parentage, spouse(s), descendants, as well as residency. Include dates.
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Just want to note here that there is a Brazilian football (soccer) whose full name is
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removed (including why exactly this Salai would have minded Melzi's presence, etc.).
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In 1502 Leonardo da Vinci produced a drawing of a single span 720-foot (240 m) bridge
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I thought about it before, but since you point it out I'm going to do it right now.
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I included some information and a link yesterday. Feel free to add more. Regards. --
443:. I added him to the disambig page... but maybe we should move the disambig page to
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agree that the artist is by far the more important; that's why he deserves the page
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Why is Leonardo da Vinci sorted in the categories by "Leonardo" and not "Vinci"? --
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What were the "technical difficulties that prevented Leonardo from completing the
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I think that solution is great, and I'm glad to see that it has been implemented.
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is probably the worst way to go about expanding Leonardo's life and works (aka.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Name in bold print followed by the birth and death dates in parenthesis. See
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Of which "Early years" and "Major Achievements" do not exist in that form -
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Good idea, I thought about doing that before too, It looks much better now
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One sentence describing the occupation(s) and most notable accomplishment.
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greater than that part of it attributable to his artistic talents alone.
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report the "Francis I" version. I don't know who this Brockwell was, and
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I have replaced the bolded text from following sentence of the article:
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This page is about the artist. For other entities named Leonardo, see
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What you are writing is completely false. There is solid evidences.
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Lacking more information about this proof, I removed this sentence.
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Added some more to the Art section. The Catholic encyclopedia here
355:. However, people do use Knowledge for stuff other than fine art.
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Does anybody know by whom and when da Vinci's portrait was drawn?
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EH? I didn't delete anything about the horse, it's still there.
694:"Leonardo da Vinci", "da Vinci, Leonardo" or "Vinci, Leonardo da"
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So, was there something else you wanted to add? I'm confused. --
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writeup. Please, let's try and realize that Dan Brown's work of
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da Vinci's father's occupation was wrongly stated, according to
1151:("There he died on May 2nd, 1519, in Clos-Lucé in the arms of
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1256:...more a reflection on Knowledge than on Leonardo really. --
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This reference, which I have also removed, is from a book on
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I can't believe the article this contained logic--good catch.
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Thx .... interesting it already was an issue so long ago ...
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Erm, which is it? 720' or 240m? The units don't match up.
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uses an exact translation of this 1911 Britannica text.)
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Renaissance Warrior and Patron, R J Knecht, page 140
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It is been proven that he is not homosexual at all.
863:Actually, assuming that this is a Biography, then
936:. A cursory read revealed false information (see
608:The following is already in the page within the
215:in the current version. Sorry for the mistake.
832:by Sherwin B. Nuland. Viking Penguin, 2000. --
867:says that it must have the following sections:
89:Knowledge:WikiProject Fact and Reference Check
8:
944:fact check and more extensive referencing.
874:Front matter (above the table of contents)
302:-< of Leonardo by pointing to a bloody
447:and change the notice on this page to say
87:This is the article of the week for the
1162:is another site claiming that Leonardo
882:Knowledge:Manual of Style (biographies)
900:Major Achievements (in timeline order)
410:? Why have that disambiguation notice
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
965:The information can be found through
940:below). The article needs at least a
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932:No, this is by far not yet ready for
689:force, not by "pushing the air down".
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850:Knowledge:What is a featured article
566:article, not the Da Vinci article.
479:'s. That just makes more sense. --
1155:(and not, as the legend tells, of
1112:where "" pointed to the reference
311:Leonardo da Vinci (disambiguation)
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1186:that "Google print" reference.
647:...but can you spin straw into
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969:. Written by David Hurwitz. --
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775:User:Steve - Leonardo Looney
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538:Thanks for the answer :-) --
439:, but he is known simply as
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269:Leonardo da Vinci in fiction
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507:Sorting names in categories
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1166:die in the king's arms.
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711:"Leonardo" is correct.
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865:WikiProject Biographys
353:Leonardo (description)
18:Talk:Leonardo da Vinci
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1135:" (emphasis added,
253:Leonardo in fiction
152:Possible homosexual
1285:2. Milanese period
803:Battle of Anghiari
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132:Intimate relations
1301:Leonardo portrait
1288:3. Nomadic period
1212:Salai mentioned.
1145:A French web site
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1320:Well done!
1170:, based on
1060:Jean Gebser
1054:Perspective
994:Eleassar777
971:Eleassar777
777:01 Oct 2005
591:Non-fiction
98:Note format
36:This is an
1194:BTW, this
953:Vegetarian
610:In fiction
267:Done. See
174:innuendos.
1225:this edit
1223:You mean
1168:Brockwell
1157:Francis I
1124:Francis I
967:this link
815:To quote
805:mural? --
568:Antandrus
247:DanKeshet
229:AxelBoldt
168:AxelBoldt
126:Neoconned
80:Archive 5
72:Archive 3
67:Archive 2
61:Archive 1
1325:Cfitzart
1312:Jules LT
1293:Cfitzart
1241:Cfitzart
942:thorough
910:See also
728:Fawcett5
612:section
602:Arcadian
441:Leonardo
416:Leonardo
349:Leonardo
273:Cfitzart
1271:Periods
1147:states
1098:2nd May
1029:Fredrik
713:Fredrik
705:Niels Ø
671:Fredrik
639:Fulcher
622:sp00n17
595:Sp00n17
587:Fiction
525:Fredrik
481:Dryazan
477:Raphael
217:llywrch
200:llywrch
190:Seeing
115:Note 2:
105:Note 1:
39:archive
1258:Wetman
1172:Vasari
1164:didn't
1094:France
1005:Waerth
983:Waerth
959:Waerth
934:WP:FAC
925:(talk)
922:Estel
857:(talk)
854:Estel
843:WP:FAC
810:(Talk)
786:Wetman
653:Wetman
496:JesseW
401:JesseW
378:Tannin
357:Meelar
341:Tannin
287:Wetman
180:Candid
1207:Salai
1159:).")
1090:Cloux
1072:hello
1046:Yeago
1014:Image
834:IvanP
828:From
807:Theo
540:Conti
513:Conti
319:still
16:<
1229:Lupo
1200:Lupo
1188:Lupo
1176:does
1137:Lupo
1102:1519
1033:talk
946:Lupo
852:. -
717:talk
687:lift
675:talk
651:? --
649:gold
529:talk
420:want
412:here
373:must
1184:and
1096:on
760:Ham
742:me.
701:and
424:was
365:far
301:-->
206:Zoe
198:.
196:ADD
192:Zoe
1139:.
1100:,
1092:,
1069:|
1067:FJ
1065:—
1031:|
1019:--
819::
715:|
673:|
593:).
527:|
271:.
213:is
124:--
76:→
1107:.
907:)
544:✉
542:|
517:✉
515:|
463:.
50:.
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