Talk:List of Chinese inventions/Archive 2

1747:

images themselves. The second is to break up the line of images down the right of the article and put some on the left, some on the right, adjusting sizes so that the image looks its best. I know some people with a certain aesthetic like things in clear columns but big gaps in the text are much worse, and I personally much prefer the text and images to be broken up so that the eye is led around the page. The best way to fix it is to break up the section into chronological periods rather than alphabetical under Shang and later. I've never really understood this separation - is the Iron Age really the most significant event in Chinese inventive history? At the very least there should be four sections, including a modern one. This puts each invention in a historical and technological context. An example is the

1088:, yes there are many articles of Yang Jian, but 中国豆腐的起源与发展 are available on some bbs, and it not hard for people to find what written in it. Plus i don't think there is any contradictory over the texts, we have different opinions from author that's all. I can easily find you a ton of authors over google books (not checked yet, but from a traditional POV it seem that people are much less concern how or spurious when tofu was invented than let's say gunpowder) that said tofu was invented much earlier than 10th century. I don't mind you make a large changes to the article even if you've been invited from China History Forum to wiki, but at least look at other wiki-article to avoid a double-standard you're appying here. Thanks 1009:

credited Liu An or not, but I do have the pdf for the tofu and if you want it you can ask. I still prefering the current standard for the article. "We could, however, make it clear that the mistaken attribution comes from Liu Keshun, not from our editors" Which is what this article and my edits are all about. "That could be done by a rephrasing along the following lines" I think this could apply to Shurtleff and Aoyagi statment as well, since according to them that "modern historian generally agrees" so or that should includes with their name. Because you're a French residing in (for now) Beijing, you might not have access to every articles. It seem that you list a, b and c choices for me, I would prefer a. Thanks

1068:

way for Knowledge readers (those who know Chinese, in any case) to locate the source in question and to make up their own mind about its reliability. The fact that most Knowledge readers and editors don't read Chinese is no good reason to abandon good scholarly practices like clear referencing. Of course we can't have references entirely in Chinese: we need the pinyin and the translation of the original title. I think this page's bibliography has more Chinese titles presented as English-language studies, but I don't think I have time to look them all up in the next few days. All right, gotta go! --

1032:豆腐皮 or "tofu skin." This all appears at the beginning of juan 25 of the BCGM. This passage is extremely famous, but for some reason I thought there was an earlier recipe somewhere else. But I may be wrong, and I probably went too far with my modifications concerning coagulants. So formulation "a" is definitely the best choice for now. Otherwise, what is the PDF you keep mentioning? If it's the article by Yang Jian on "The origin and development of Chinese tofu," then yes, I would be interested. (Is the article in Chinese, by the way, because the journal's name sounds a lot like 386:

pre-modern technology became so efficient by the Qing Dynasty that there was no drive or impetus for further improvement. The enormous manpower was always available to complete tasks needed by the state and China did not have the burden of heated competition with numerous and compacted neighboring states like in Europe. But the latter certainly wouldn't explain the Han Dynasty, which produced invention after invention regardless of it being the biggest kid on the block (after they broke the power of the Xiongnu Empire and severed the

1143:- The invention of tofu is traditionally attributed to Liu An... Although this attribution only surfaced in the Song dynasty (Zhu Xi, etc.), archeological evidence shows that presses similar to those used today to make tofu already existed in Liu An's region in the Han dynasty. Since the 1990s, many scholars have interpreted a Han-dynasty wall painting found in Dahu ting (present-day Henan) as representing a tofu workshop, but Sun Ji (1998) has argued that crucial elements were missing from it to make this identification conclusive. 1755:. I've never been a big fan of large lists in alphabetiocal order. It might make it easier for the editors, but that irrelevant. The raison d'etre of the article is the readers, and too many editors think of themselves rather than the readers of the article. An alphabetical list assumes the reader has a specific thing in mind and wants to serach for it, rather than looking for a more overall look at the inventions and inventiveness of the people. Chronological and industry lists are friendlier to this type of reader. 991:"Han-dynasty cannons" and "15th-century steam boats." We can't discuss "Liu An's tofu" as if it existed, even if a scholar has done just that. We could, however, make it clear that the mistaken attribution comes from Liu Keshun, not from our editors. That could be done by a rephrasing along the following lines: "Liu Keshun, who accepts the traditional attribution of the invention of tofu to Liu An, thinks that Liu An's process for making tofu..." Same thing with the next sentence on Sh&Ao.-- 1944:(Knights I347-8, with scholia). The fragments from Gordion - parts of the upper fitting - were found in Tumulus P, a child's burial dated to the start of the seventh century; the magnificence of the tomb intimates royalty, but there was no physiological means of determining the gender of the child. 35 The wooden parasol slide from Samos was deposited in the late seventh century with many other items of which some were Near Eastern imports; it may itself be a Phrygian import. 1225:

lived. But just a little note to it, here in Knowledge (I new to Knowledge too), we probably needs to address those statement that came from that author. Liu An's method of "tofu was adopted in Japan in the XXth century" This is yet another statement from another source, although is truth that tofu probably didn't existed back then. As for further explanation (a rather non-concise explanation) on tofu itself, we probably needs to bring them into the

31: 1373:. Madalibi, feel free to take the reins here and amend that passage as necessary. Just as long as the passage does not extend for a mile in length, I trust that you can delete extraneous details already present to make room for a few comments on these scholars' findings. It's strange that Temple did not mention Liu Guangding's publications, seeing how Temple's book was published in 1986.-- 1036:农业考古 to me. If this is so, we would need the Chinese title in the bibliography. I can take care of the format if needed. Ok, I found it! I will make the necessary modification to the bibliography.) On "Liu An's tofu," I still think our text looks contradictory. Would other editors give me the permission to re-phrase it in a way that clears the confusion? Thanks.-- 1112:

evidence connecting tofu to Liu An. The studies that attribute the invention of tofu to Liu An are not based on Han-dynasty primary sources: they simply repeat the traditional attribution, which appeared more than 1000 years after Li An's life. Many other traditional attributions have been proven wrong: the "Ten Wings" commentaries to the

536:

new evidence shown up, category A's entry could result from removal and moved to B, the sames goes with refs, which takes time to maintain. What Pericles of Athens suggested was good, which I had once thought before, List of Chinese inventions, A to F? That would means there would be more than two articles.

1067:

Hi Anpersonalaccount. After I figured out the Chinese title, I indeed found many copies of Yang Jian's article online, so don't worry about it! As for Chinese titles: coming from an academic background, I think Chinese titles are not only useful: they're absolutely necessary. Without them, there's no

851:

Hi Anpersonalaccount. As you must certainly have noticed, I didn't remove the phrase on "Song-dynasty scholars," so no worry. And I cited CHF not as an authority, but as a reference to an article that discusses alternative theories concerning the origin of tofu (in milk curd by northern nomads in the

2166:

This section is on borrowed time. Thereare NO references in there yet. Also have the following oproblems; Hybrid rice - there are hundreds of difeferent hybrids - what makes this one an 'invention?' Details of the actual photocomposition system needs to show why it is unique. Copying of a protein is

1989:

I'm actually doing a project on China, and one section is an inventions section. After researching a lot, I've come to some interesting conclusions. I was wondering if the idea for ice cream, is true, and that "ice cream" is an invention. In one source is says the process of how they made it, and

1774:

The reason that everything looks fine on my computer is that I am using a 13' monitor. I'm not sure what size monitor you are using, but it is obviously much wider. Keep in mind that not everyone has the same size monitor, so sometimes folks with bigger monitors see huge gaps with text and pictures.

1746:

There are some problems in the article's layout with LAAAAAAAARGE gaps in the text. These are not just unsightly, they make it look like the article hasn't loaded properly. There are a couple of ways to fix this. The first is to severely edit back the captions on the images, and possible some of the

1250:

I just wanted to point out that Needham's and Temple's claim that the Autumn Mineral was a hormone preparation has been refuted a number of times since the 1980s on the basis of laboratory experiments. Needham had not done any experiment on this problem himself, and Temple just copied all his claims

1134:

If we're not careful, the wiki on endocrinology (see the next entry in this talk page) might run into the same problem. If we say: "Chinese historians and scientists have proven repeatedly that the Autumn Mineral actually contained fewer hormones than the urine that was used to prepare it," we can't

1008:

I still busying with my work and am preparing for something. Yes based upon wiki standard, it is always better to have date for the author, and in this cases since both Liu An and Liu Keshun have a same surname, so providing date would be less confusing. I don't know whether you think Li Shizhen did

726:

2. It's not clear if the note to Liu (1999) after "It is believed that tofu was consumed in other Asian countries like Japan by the Tang Dynasty (618–907), yet it was not introduced to the West until modern times" is meant to explain a) the transmission of tofu to the West or b) the presence of tofu

638:

I see the alphabetical order is much better because it is much easier and better to maintain, why waste time on thinking when there is already an available way to solve it. Why Mahjong should be placed at XXX era article and not YYY era article, although it first appeared on XXX text in XXX era, but

2009:

I am aware of the need to specify certain facts in articles for the sole purpose of heading off pedants and editors who dont understand what an invention is, but as it stands that opening paragraph is one of the oddest I've ever read. Surely the opening of the list shouldn't be what the list is NOT

1788:

Those gaps are a layout issue. By editing with a smaller screen you can't see how poor the article looks on a larger screen. By having all the images on the right you are condemning the article to this solvable problem. DO you think such gaps are an acceptable cost of having the images in a column?

1409:

This article is WAY too big to be useful (295K, not including pictures). It takes an inordinate amount of time to load for me and I have a fast machine and a pretty good net connection. I can only imagine the time it must take for someone with a slow machine and/or a slow net connection. Perhaps

1224:

only supposed on be lived during the early Tang, and there are debate on whether he lived in Northern Zhou, Sui or Tang. On the whole, I think what you had suggested is good, because tofu wasn't mentioned until much later after Liu An's death, therefore tofu can't be existed during when he supposed

990:

is the most influential source for the popular claim that the King of Huainan invented tofu, but Li Shizhen lived 1700 years after Liu An... Liu Keshun's statement that "Liu An’s tofu was probably made in such and such a way" make no sense because "Liu An's tofu" is a non-existent entity, just like

955:

other modern historians, then sure we need both. Could you clarify which it is (and I mean with more than a rhetorical question about modern historians)? Also, if Shurtleff and Aoyagi are talking about other historians, maybe we can look up these historians and cite them directly instead of relying

586:

But instead of just having blank sections with links, I was thinking about actually listing the inventions for each section but moving the large descriptions for each invention to these separate main articles. Once again this is something in the making, nothing definite as of now, just something to

79:

For anyone who might also be interested, I have noticed over the long three months of expanding this article that there is a trend of significantly disproportionate amount of innovations allotted to each era of Chinese history. I tallied up all the significant original innovations mentioned in this

1111:

Now about Liu An's tofu (forgive me for being so persistent about this: I'm just trying to clarify things for myself and for Knowledge readers). I don't think the Wiki standard is to cite - without any kind of warning - statements about things that we know do not exist. There is simply no credible

1051:

Hi Madalibi, Yang Jian article are available on some Chinese bbs, it is not obscure enough if you wanted to find it. Thanks for informing about Bencao gangmu which I had not noted previously. While I have no oppose to it, I think Chinese characters over the bibliography are only good for those who

800:

scholars now agree that "Records of the Extraordinary" was not compiled by Tao Gu himself, but attributed to him after his death. Sun Ji (1998), the article I refer this claim to, explains the evidence briefly. There is an online version of Sun Ji's article: should I add the link in the footnote?--

535:

I think is pretty hard to divide them into different articles base upon timesets, there are several innovations involved in hint/actual invention/actual date, for exampe there are many origins for Mahjong, and I remeber there was a manual on Mahjong written during the Song Dynasty. Thus whenever a

476:

Connect them through a template at the bottom of the page (I can make one). Have a dablink at the top of the page for those who only glance. Another advice is that use an image stack at the top as the stack at sections creates gigantic spaces somewhat souring the otherwise good reading experience.

2110:

Please don't. Because then it makes it hell to try and edit one section that is so large. Think about trying to make minor edits; it becomes impractical. Keep in mind, not everyone has the same size monitor that you do. On my 13' monitor, the images look completely fine and there is absolutely no

1726:

I really do think that this page along with the other countries pages for inventions should be semi-locked from vandals continuing to trash this page. It is unacceptable when people negligently delete information on this page when it has citations to prove its verification. What is wrong with you

799:

Incidentally, I'm not sure about the Romanized name of the journal where his work was first published (樂味= Gaku+???) in 1963, and about the title of the article (could be "O-tōfu no hanashi" お豆腐の話し or "Tōfu kō" 豆腐考). Could someone who has access to a good library confirm either title? Apparently,

781:

Great suggestions. I was not the editor who added all this info about tofu, so I certainly wouldn't mind if you tweaked with that passage a bit. You should definitely add the Chinese character names for the title of Tao's book. Maybe in this format?《清異錄》 I know that's how Chinese speakers signify

729:

3. Concerning the same sentence: "It is believed..." is a conveniently impersonal formulation, but the presence of tofu in Japan in Tang times is supported by neither documentary nor archeological evidence, since the earliest mention of tofu anywhere is still in Tao Gu's 10th-century compilation.

433:

to the list to include more original games the Chinese invented. However, looking over the list I can't help but be a little concerned about the length of this article now, which is almost 300 KB overall (about 290 KB overall right now). Given it is a list article and not a normal article, but we

283:

I not sure about Han Dynasty overall as I did not count them, but I counted Eastern Han were 15 of them. As for tea, it was not an ancient Chinese drink until much later during the Han Dynasty or later. Guqin cannot be consider as Shang innovation, it is just a nominal claim or statement on paper

2090:

Is there any reason why the main section has to be broken up by letter? I think it would be an improvement to keep the alphabetical listing but just remove the sections by letter. It would be a lot easier to take out the gaps in the text and have the text flow around the images if it was all one

1805:

Hmm...I believe I placed all images on the right because this is not a normal article with paragraphs, but rather a series of bulleted points that happen to have sentences. Wouldn't placing images on the left disrupt the bullets? I remember trying that long ago and thinking it did not look good.

1107:

I doubt that Knowledge's rules say that we should cite Chinese sources as if they had been written in English. Knowledge wants editors to cite their sources clearly, that's it. The problem with citing titles only in translation is that nobody can locate the article in question. This is not clear

499:

That is a great idea! But let's hold onto that idea and see what others have to say. I'd like to get everyone's input on this. Plus, with the desparity of inventions during certain periods, I think another good suggestion would be to make separate articles on inventions according to alphabetical

747:

7. Apart from Zhu Xi (who mentions "the King of Huainan's technique" in a poem), I don't know of any other "Song-dynasty scholar" who attributes the invention of tofu to Liu An. Could we change the first sentence to "Although both popular tradition and the Song-dynasty scholar Zhu Xi (1130–1200

621:

It's pretty much the same idea as applied to the Song articles, but instead of creating branch articles based on subject (such as culture, technology, economy, etc.) this will be based solely on alphabetical order. I think splitting up this article by types of invention or by era of time are ok

1138:

Citing Tao Gu's book as the earliest mention of tofu doesn't imply that tofu was invented only in the 10th century. Actually, for the wiki to be complete, we should probably discuss the other theories about the origins of tofu. For this purpose (and to clarify the whole text), we might want to

1052:

begin to learn Chinese (meaning those who starts learning Chinese and needs to google it on the some Chinese details), since everything is news for them in Chinese google or sohu, but not the major Knowledge readers. Anyway that's just my thoughts that I had encountered many times with people.

2124:

Can we then consider splitting the section into two or three sections chronologically? You cant edit an article just so it looks nice on one size of monitor if those edits makes it look bad on others. An article needs to look as good as possible on all sized monitors. The fact is that current

742:

5. Another contradiction: right after we say that tofu is not mentioned in any source until the 10th century (and that the invention of tofu by Liu An is therefore spurious), we read about "Liu An's tofu" and "Liu An's process for making tofu." These two sentences should be reworded to remove

385:

I know I must be missing tons of things from modern China, but regardless, look at the Han Dynasty compared to the Ming or Qing dynasties so far and the desparity between them in terms of the sheer number of 100% original inventions. From what I've heard other sinologists assert, it's because

370:

Interesting. Clearly, there are still many inventions that have not yet been added to the list so the proportion of inventions may change considerably. Also, it would probably be more accurate to consider how long each period was; perhaps do invention/years of period. Keep up the good work.

852:

Age of Fragmentation, for example). All these theories are defended in serious scholarly sources, but I didn't cite any of them because I didn't mention these theories in my modifications. So I'm not sure what you mean by "CHF is a forum, I'm very sorry." Now concerning your emendations.

972:. References to "Liu An's tofu" are therefore very misleading, and this is why I removed them. The two mentions of "Liu An's tofu" are also confusing because our text has just claimed that there was not a shred of evidence connecting Liu An with tofu. On this matter, you said: 1855:

I think some of the items are NOT inventions. An invention needs to be a technological breakthrough, not an example of redesign or a slightly different style of something else. For example, the Bird and Flower painting - are you serious? How is that an invention?

2125:

situation with long, skinny images down the right hand side and lots of small sections creates big ugly gaps in the text. I think for that reason we need to have some of the images on the left side. Or we could just arbitrarily cut some images to remove the gaps.

1251:

directly from Needham, so lab experiments should be seen as more conclusive than the purely textual evidence Needham and Temple present. Things all started with Liu Guangding 劉廣定, who wrote three papers on the "Autumn Mineral" problem in 1981 in a journal called

1103:

First, good edit about Sun Ji and Tao Gu. I now see what you mean by attributing certain statements to authors in the text instead of just writing the statement and putting the author's name in a footnote. (Note: but I don't understand your reference to Yang

1196:

that I'm a new editor and that I'm still learning about Knowledge conventions, but this has nothing to do with where I come from. I'm the same person regardless of whether I come from CHF, bustyasianbeauties.com, answersingenesis.org, or richarddawkins.net

750:

8. There are more theories about the origins of tofu than mentioned here. There are published studies advocating each of them, but none is supported by strong documentary evidence. These theories are discussed in an article cited on Chinahistoryforum (CHF)

920:

If you're not satisfied with b and c, you can always revert back to a, but your current sentence doesn't work. In the mean time, I'll try to find the proper scholarly support for my claim that the BCGM contained the earliest detailed explanation of

721:

Hi everybody! I'm a new editor, but maybe I can contribute a few things here. So let's start with a... soft target :). There are a few unclear points and some contradictions in the tofu section, but I don't want to edit them out without asking for

1308:- H. T. Huang et al. "Preliminary Experiments on the Identity of Chiu Shi (Autumn Mineral) in Medieval Chinese Pharmacopoeias." Paper presented at the 5th International Conference on the History of Science in China, San Diego, 9 August 1988. 834:"I don't know of any other "Song-dynasty scholar" That's not an excuse to remove it, since it cited. I have both pdf you cited and the one already there at tofu, if you need one of those, you can ask. And CHF is a forum, I am very sorry. 1579:

There's a few modern inventions described; read more carefully. As for the Chinese diaspora, I'd like to limit "Chinese inventions" to inventions created within "China". This article is simply too large to accomodate anything more than

673:

I agree with Anpersonalaccount's suggestion. I was thinking about suggesting something similar about splitting the article by alphabet. I think listing in alphabetic order is a lot easier than listing by subject or chronological order.

198:

of Chinese history were strangely bunched together in two eras: the Eastern Han and Northern Song periods. Does anyone know of any scholar who addresses the unequal amount of innovation in regards to different eras of Chinese history?

1191:

To conclude on a side note, I think sentences like "even if you've been invited from China History Forum to wiki" are a bit uncalled for. The forums I participate in have nothing to do with who I am and what I know. Of course it's a

245:

Well, after recalculation it seems that Eastern Han holds about 15 amount of innovation that's it. Not sure about Northern Song, maybe because of Shen Kuo and etc, but many of the Song innovations actually owe to previous dynasties.

871:

3. Your comment to one of your edits is "Changing one little great error that the editor never read." Not completely sure what this means, but the result of your change is this sentence: "The earliest making of tofu is found in the

1486:

That does sound like a really cool idea, Iciac (I'm in favor of it, since it would retain all the info here in one article), but that wouldn't address the load time which Hbent had a problem with on his computer. Perhaps Mdw0 is

760:

contains a lot more references than our Wiki, including to some Japanese sources and more recent books by Shurtleff and Aoyagi. I have no access to a library right now, but someone else could probably benefit from the sources

622:

suggestions, but since this is already in alphabetical order, I see the latter as the best model for splitting this article up, WHEN AND IF we split this article up. After all, nothing is 'sealed in stone' here, so to speak.--

301:

Oh, I see. Tea was consumed in non-drink form in Yunnan as far back as the mid 2nd millennium BC, according to Heiss (2007), 4–6, but not as a liquid drink until the Han Dynasty. I have changed the Shang entry to 3 and Han to

1934:

This claim is untenable. There is a wealth of literary, archaeological and pictorial evidence proving that umbrellas which could be opened and closed existed at the latest by the 7th century BC in the wider Mediterranean.

1343:

Sun Yilin concludes that the final product of all the experiments described in ancient Chinese sources is an almost non-soluble inorganic salt that contains less hormones than the original urine that is used to prepare

477:

Good thinking though, shorter articles mean people read more of it and people here (in India and other developing countries) may enjoy more if the article is shorter and compatible with their slower internet speeds eg.

1364:

Yes, you and I have discussed this in the past, and I haven't had time to do thorough research in order to amend the passage with counterarguments of Sun Yilin and others. For the past few weeks I've been going to the

694:

i use this subjet because my uncle and his girlfriend EVA wong the were working for alana persintation on china and beging for fun they used two computers one was was my uncels computer theb other competer was mine.

452:

Its not so much the number of inventions but your level of detail that makes the articles both excellent and long. My suggestion: Divide Chinese inventions into three or four sections (whole articles) based on time

1939:

Anatolia often provides the bridge from the Near East to the Greek world, and, indeed, wooden parasol parts have been excavated at Gordion and Samos. Both parasols could be opened, like the one mentioned later by

1642:

How on earth can paper be considered a "Chinese invention" when in fact, paper was invented by the Egyptians in the 3rd century B.C.??? Adding paper to this list is not accurate since the facts prove otherwise.

2050:

Fair enough. I was not the one to add the jade passage; I believe that was an anonymous IP. I deleted the sources used for that jade passage which you removed, since they were used nowhere else in the article.

1346:

What do other editors think we should do with the section on endocrinology? Right now it describes a lot of interesting experiments, but the title of the Wiki ("Endocrinology...") doesn't reflect its content.

1083:

Hi Madalibi, I don't have much time debating with you nor having time to edit Knowledge. I once said because you don't have access to the Chinese articles, all you have is a glimpse on the title itself of the

337:

Fair enough about the guqin, as well, although some sort of musical zither instrument (a primitive predecessor to the qin perhaps?) must have existed in the Shang for that's when its character first appears.--

763:

All right! I hope we can discuss all this and improve the article even further. I'll make the modifications if I get a green light from other editors, especially Pericles (hi!). Awesome article, by the

1304:

7.2 (1987): 170-183. The English title Sivin gives here (in a text on the history of Chinese alchemy) probably appeared in the original publication. It is not a direct translation of the Chinese title.

1410:

it could be split up alphabetically? Have a main page with the beginning (the four great inventions and the pre-Shang inventions), then lists of inventions A-H, I-R, S-Z or something like that.

745:

6. We have: "According to Shurtleff and Aoyagi, modern historians speculate..." Since the note already refers to Shurtleff and Aoyagi, could we shorten this to "Modern historians speculate..."?

1386:

Hi Madalibi. Since you seem fairly busy, I have already amended the passage on endocrinology, so that it now only mentions the use of the natural soap, not this whole sublimation process.--

1135:

go on to claim that "the Chinese took these concentrated hormones to cure such and such an illness." This makes no sense at all even if we are just citing other scholars' points of view.

1024:

Yes, Li Shizhen claims that "the method tofu started with the Han King of Huainan, Liu An" (豆腐之法，始于汉淮南王刘安). He goes on to mention which beans can be used, and then explains a recipe (

2173:

No, it has no time left, since I will remove it now. The anti-malarial thing is already mentioned in the article, along with hybrid rice. The other two have no citations anyway.--

964:

in the Han dynasty (probably didn't), and there is nothing within 1200 years of Liu An's life that connects tofu with him. It's as if the earliest source for the existence of the

1139:

re-shuffle the text according to the following structure (just a suggestion, so feel free to disagree, though I would like to hear what the other editors have to say about this):

795:

I made the proposed changes. I hope the format is acceptable. I also added references to the work of Shinoda Osamu, who was the first scholar to find the mention of tofu in the

1122:, etc. I don't think a good Wiki should say "Confucius's cosmological views on the Yijing agree with those of Han-dynasty commentators," because the historical Confucius did 390:

agreement, of course). And even this model would assume that most inventions are driven by exterior competition; most inventions are driven simply by domestic practicality.--

434:

should be thinking ahead since this problem isn't going to go away by itself. Any thoughts on how to reduce the size of this article? We could make a separate article for

2111:

overlapping problems. On your monitor, it perhaps looks like someone arranged the images like a madman. A different sized monitor makes all the difference in the world.--

1830:

list has them only on the right, but the images are fewer. This is a better option than having so many that the layout is interrupted. For images on both sides check the

438:

and link it as a main article for that section, no? Make some suggestions people, because I don't think the additions (not just by me) are going to stop anytime soon.--

355:

Well, I guess so too, although I had not read about the origin of qin character, but I believe there are many explanation on that particular character through google.

1216:

Hello Madalibi, I don't understand your reference to Confucius's or Yijing. As for Yang Shangshan, I actually get the idea when I was reading from your sandbox

748:

AD)..."? In this proposed revision, I would also hyphenate "Song-dynasty" and remove the dates of the Song dynasty because Zhu's dates are already given.

517:

Also, keep in mind that it is this article which is a featured article, and it should retain a significant amount of material due to its higher status.--

1751:. The other way to separate rather than alphabetical is by scientific field - agriculture, science, mathematics, industry, medical, military, as in the 1500:

Perhaps we could simply move all the neolithic inventions to a small new article, and taking out that significant chunk could help with the load time?--

1834:. Knowledge has quite powerful abilities to move text around left-placed images the same way encyclopedias do, no matter what the width of the monitor. 1827: 956:

on what Sh&Ao tell us about them. And if they just talk about "modern historians" without naming any, then they're not a serious scholarly source.

59: 1427:

Wait, you're saying that there should be separate articles for A-H, I-R, S-Z? That's not such a bad idea. I want to hear what others have to say.--

724:

1. In the middle of the first sentence, we have references to "Liu (1999), 166" and "Liu (1999), 166-67." Could the redundant first one be removed?

2010:

about. Perhaps at the head of the text below the opening we need a section on definitions, and descibe what is and what isn't an invention there.

976:"While the invention of tofu by Liu An maybe is spurious, the statement from another scholars or third party encyclopedia like Britannica isn't." 142: 1965:

Fair enough; good find. Needham is a bit outdated, as I've found out using Robert Temple's work and other sources to update Needham's work.--

947:

the modern historians in question. If so, there is no need to have both "Shurtleff and Aoyagi" and "modern historians" in the same sentence,

554:

for rubber, chain drive, auto door etc, which could greatly reduce the article size (I counted it), but that's a subject for debate as well.

702: 212:

Did you just happen to read the passage in passing? Because there are only two entries that actually fit into Shang's category by the way.

1562: 1319:

Alchemy Revisited. Proceedings of the International Conference on the History of Alchemy at the University of Groningen 17-19 April 1989

406: 372: 1593:

I dont see how you can possibly claim an emigre's work in another country as Chinese, especially if they were also educated overseas.

1875:

Perhaps you are right about the art stuff. Plus, if it is removed, it will reduce the already excessive size of this list article.--

1278:- Liu Guangding. "Cong bei-Song ren tilian xingjisu shuo tan kexue dui kejishi yanjiu de zhongyaoxing" 從北宋人提煉性激素說談科學對科技史研究的重要性 . 878:..." This is not grammatical. The page when I first saw it said: "While the earliest account on making of tofu are found in the 124: 47: 17: 1672:

process which was first invented in China. Check all the sources which I cited in the paper section for further information.--

937:"According to Shurtleff and Aoyagi is needed here, since no ones had yet to heard any modern historian suppose this or that." 435: 1831: 1748: 551: 501: 1685:

A quick note indicating the differences would be appropriate, the same way the Olmec lodestone has been acknowledged.

1469:

Instead of spliting the article into new articles, would it be possible to use "show" tags such as in most templates?

1234: 1093: 1057: 1014: 839: 644: 609: 559: 541: 478: 360: 323: 289: 251: 217: 180: 1534:

First thing, sprinmg-load your notes and references. Next, be sparing with the images. That should reduce load times.

577: 573: 569: 38: 1752: 859:

2. I'm not familiar with Knowledge conventions, but is it really necessary to put the date of the authors cited

1555:

Shouldn't there be mention of chinese inventions of the past few centuries? And what of the chinese diaspora?

706: 1321:, ed. by Z.R.W.M. von Martels. Leyden: E.J. Brill, 1990. Pp. 3-20. The citation and argument appear on p. 12. 1953: 1566: 982:

I hope you don't mean that we should refer our claims to third-hand scholarly studies (i.e., encyclopedias)

580:", and having main article links posted at the top of each section which would look like this in the edit: 410: 376: 1888:

I removed two art entries; the one you mentioned (including its reference source and pic), as well as the

1448:

I HATE splits like that - you'd be better off with a chronological split, like the Islamic articles have.

1230: 1089: 1053: 1010: 835: 640: 605: 555: 537: 356: 319: 285: 247: 213: 152: 2141:

Hmm. Feel free to do a combination of both (i.e. moving some to the left and removing some altogether).--

2031:

Does a jade art object count as an invention? Tripod pottery isnt an invention - its just a minor design.

1217: 1028:造法) where he mentions the many products that can make soy milk coagulate. He ends with an explanation of 782:

book titles. Maybe you should just delete the mentioning of the Tang Dynasty, given the other evidence.--

2175: 2143: 2113: 2053: 1990:

it says it traveled out of China into Italy, and so on. Would ice cream be something to add onto this?

1967: 1911: 1894: 1877: 1808: 1777: 1703: 1674: 1619: 1582: 1502: 1489: 1429: 1388: 1375: 885:, which was also grammatically incorrect. I modified this sentence many times (perhaps too many times): 816: 784: 658: 624: 589: 519: 506: 440: 392: 339: 304: 269: 231: 201: 118: 94: 1147:- Scholars who accept the traditional attribution... Liu Keshun says... Shurtleff and Aoyagi suppose... 754:. (That page cites another link, but it's dead, so I'm citing the original article's content from CHF.) 1995: 1789:

This could be significantly reduced by editing back the image captions, some of which are very long.

1732: 1648: 1558: 698: 2181: 2149: 2135: 2119: 2101: 2074: 2059: 2041: 2020: 1999: 1973: 1957: 1917: 1900: 1883: 1866: 1844: 1814: 1799: 1783: 1765: 1736: 1709: 1695: 1680: 1652: 1625: 1603: 1588: 1570: 1544: 1522: 1508: 1495: 1478: 1458: 1435: 1419: 1394: 1381: 1356: 1238: 1210: 1097: 1077: 1061: 1045: 1018: 1000: 843: 822: 809: 790: 773: 710: 683: 664: 648: 630: 613: 595: 563: 545: 525: 512: 494: 446: 414: 398: 380: 364: 345: 327: 310: 293: 275: 255: 237: 221: 207: 1366: 965: 679: 1949: 1518: 1352: 1206: 1073: 1041: 996: 805: 769: 405:

Good point Pericles. I'm with you that different periods produced varying levels of innovation.

2064:

What about the jade burial suit? Is it purely artistic or does it have some practical function?

1300:- Zhang Binglun 張秉倫 and Sun Yilin 孫毅霖. "'Qiushi fang' moni shiyan ji qi yanjiu" 秋石方模擬實驗及其研究 . 1220:, that you gives a absolute dating of 660s, I look up over the google and found out that Yang 1181:- Tofu was adopted in Japan in the XXth century, and in the West only in the 20th (?) century. 176: 604:

which you've done, I think that's a good idea as well, since this article is getting bigger.

1610: 752: 430: 943:

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original question, but I meant to ask if "Shurtleff and Aoyagi"

1991: 1728: 1644: 1474: 1415: 867:? I think the rest of the article doesn't mention dates of scholarly studies in the text. 267:

counts for a couple items on the list, namely chain drive and oldest printed star maps.--

263:

Yes, but Han Dynasty overall (including Western) was 33. In regards to the Song Dynasty,

2131: 2097: 2070: 2037: 2016: 1862: 1840: 1795: 1761: 1691: 1599: 1540: 1454: 1370: 675: 656:

Exactly. Some items are hard to definitively date, such as Jacob's staff and Mahjong.--

112: 951:

a footnote reference to Shurtleff and Aoyagi. Now if Shurtleff and Aoyagi are talking

1514: 1513:

Most people are probably ok with the article the way it is. Whatever works for you.

1348: 1202: 1069: 1037: 992: 910: 900: 890: 880: 874: 801: 765: 490: 284:(without much evidence just like the linguistic evidence for wheelbarrow) that's it. 84: 1941: 601: 191: 170: 164: 158: 148: 136: 90: 1118:

were traditionally attributed to Confucius, the Zhuge Nu (a kind of crossbow) to

908:

c. "The earliest explanation of the coagulants used to make tofu is found in the

1668: 1369:

in D.C. where I've been busting my hump trying to compile notes for my paper on

1119: 190:

Notice how the Han Dynasty holds the lion's share of these. I read a comment by

130: 106: 100: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

1313:

Nathan Sivin cites these articles and agrees with them in this article of his:

1470: 1411: 80:

article and this is what I have found as of now (updated September 10, 2008):

2167:

not an invention - great science, but scientific discovery is not invention.

2127: 2093: 2066: 2033: 2012: 1889: 1858: 1836: 1791: 1757: 1687: 1595: 1536: 1450: 898:

b. "The earliest explanation of how to make tofu coagulate is found in the

1260:- "Ren niao zhong suo de qiushi wei xingjisu zhi jiantao" 人尿中所得秋石為性激素之檢討 . 1614: 1177:- The first recipe for making tofu: Bencao gangmu... List the coagulants. 969: 486: 195: 1662: 426: 264: 1948:

Margaret Miller - Athens and Persia in the Fifth Century BC, p.193f.

1906: 1666:, which is kind of like paper, but has nothing to do with the modern 1114: 194:

in one of his articles recently on his observation that most of the

460:

List of Chinese inventions (YYYY BC- YY CE). Based on the 'origin'.

1173:- The first unambiguous textual mention of tofu: Qingyi lu... Etc. 387: 888:

a. "The earliest explanation of how to make tofu is found in the

229:

By my count, chopsticks, dagger-axe, guqin, and tea as a drink.--

1330:- Sun Yilin 孙毅霖. "Zhongguo gudai qiushi tilian kao" 中国古代秋石提炼考 . 1226: 757: 75:

Comparison of Chinese dynastic eras, uneven levels of innovation

639:

real Mahjong did not appeared or became popular until YYY era.

25: 568:

I was thinking about having sections in this article titled "

1325:

A recent article in Chinese has summarized all the findings:

1775:

You could try resizing your browser if it is a nuisance.--

1187:

Do other editors think this structure would be acceptable?

814:

Sure, it wouldn't hurt to add the link in the footnote.--

583:{{main|List of Chinese inventions, A-F}} and so forth. 960:

5. Now on "Liu An's tofu." We don't know if tofu even

1909:, which I just deleted from the Neolithic section.-- 1660:The ancient Egyptians used a plant material called 1317:- "Research on the History of Chinese Alchemy." In 1151:- Other theories concerning the origin of tofu are: 863:when the date of their publication already appears 1892:entry and associated picture and reference used.-- 740:清異錄. Should it be added in? If so, in what format? 856:1. Good call on Liu Keshun instead of Keshun Liu. 727:in Japan in the Tang dynasty. How can we clarify? 1244:On "endocrinology: extraction of human hormones" 732:4. Speaking of Tao Gu: the Chinese title of his 466:List of Chinese inventions (YYY CE - YYYY CE) 8: 1292:- Meng Naichang 孟乃昌. "Qiushi shi yi" 秋石试议 . 587:consider if this article gets any bigger.-- 463:List of Chinese inventions (YY CE - YYY CE) 318:Oh, so you made a mistake, well that's ok. 469:List of Chinese inventions (Modern Period) 1828:List of Indian inventions and discoveries 2027:Artistic inventions - should they count? 1268:- "San tan qiushi yu ren niao" 三談秋石與人尿 . 1264:- "Bu tan qiushi yu ren niao" 補談秋石與人尿 . 1255:科學月刊 , respectively issues 5, 6, and 8: 143:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 600:I see, something like the article of 436:List of Neolithic inventions in China 7: 1287:More articles making the same point: 1126:have any "cosmological views on the 730:Should the sentence just be removed? 1280:Guoli Taiwan daxue wenshizhe xuebao 552:List of Chinese modified inventions 502:List of Chinese inventions, A to F 24: 1273:Another article by Liu from 1981: 29: 1282:國立台灣大學文史哲學報 30 (1981): 363-76. 984:even when we know they're wrong 578:List of Chinese inventions, N-Z 574:List of Chinese inventions, G-M 570:List of Chinese inventions, A-F 125:Southern and Northern Dynasties 18:Talk:List of Chinese inventions 684:21:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC) 665:15:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 649:15:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 631:14:47, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 614:14:35, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 596:14:30, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 564:14:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 546:14:09, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 526:11:49, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 513:11:47, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 495:06:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 447:23:45, 10 September 2008 (UTC) 415:01:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 1: 1832:List of Australian inventions 1806:Prove me wrong otherwise...-- 1749:List of Australian inventions 1681:06:50, 13 February 2009 (UTC) 1653:01:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC) 1436:18:16, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 1420:19:23, 11 November 2008 (UTC) 797:Records of the Extraordinary. 399:02:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC) 381:00:23, 5 September 2008 (UTC) 365:15:26, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 346:15:20, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 328:15:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 311:15:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 294:15:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 276:14:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 256:13:54, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 238:14:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 222:13:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 208:13:06, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 1626:22:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC) 1604:22:31, 5 February 2009 (UTC) 1589:21:05, 27 January 2009 (UTC) 1571:20:58, 27 January 2009 (UTC) 1523:06:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC) 1509:11:12, 15 January 2009 (UTC) 1496:11:10, 15 January 2009 (UTC) 1479:02:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC) 1459:23:17, 14 January 2009 (UTC) 1382:04:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 1357:10:14, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 1296:自然科学史研究 1.4 (1982): 289-99. 1239:12:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 1211:07:05, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 1098:02:45, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 1078:09:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 1062:08:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 1046:04:11, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 1019:12:46, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 1001:08:44, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 844:05:22, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 823:08:02, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 810:03:40, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 791:16:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 774:09:52, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 734:Records of the Extraordinary 711:22:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC) 504:, or something like that.-- 2200: 2091:section. OK if I try that? 2000:22:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC) 1974:02:36, 28 March 2009 (UTC) 1958:02:28, 28 March 2009 (UTC) 1918:11:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1901:11:16, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1884:11:07, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1867:07:16, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1845:06:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC) 1815:03:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC) 1800:03:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC) 1784:10:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1766:07:05, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1737:20:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC) 1710:10:51, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1696:06:48, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1545:06:50, 25 March 2009 (UTC) 1395:16:39, 29 March 2009 (UTC) 1332:Guangxi minzu daxue xuebao 181:People's Republic of China 2182:03:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC) 1753:List of Indian inventions 925:, but not the first tofu 717:A few problems with tofu! 2150:08:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC) 2136:08:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC) 2120:05:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC) 2102:06:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC) 2075:04:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC) 756:9. Finally, the page on 2162:Great Modern Inventions 2060:02:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 2042:03:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 2021:03:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 550:Maybe we could try out 1946: 153:Jin Dynasty, 1115-1234 1937: 1851:What is an invention? 1302:Ziran kexueshi yanjiu 1294:Ziran kexueshi yanjiu 743:references to Liu An. 119:Jin Dynasty (265-420) 95:Warring States Period 42:of past discussions. 1930:Collapsible Umbrella 1338:自然科学版 , 2005, No. 4. 1367:Library of Congress 690:the CHINAgreat wall 2180: 2177:Pericles of Athens 2148: 2145:Pericles of Athens 2118: 2115:Pericles of Athens 2058: 2055:Pericles of Athens 1972: 1969:Pericles of Athens 1916: 1913:Pericles of Athens 1905:The same goes for 1899: 1896:Pericles of Athens 1882: 1879:Pericles of Athens 1813: 1810:Pericles of Athens 1782: 1779:Pericles of Athens 1708: 1705:Pericles of Athens 1679: 1676:Pericles of Athens 1624: 1621:Pericles of Athens 1587: 1584:Pericles of Athens 1507: 1504:Pericles of Athens 1494: 1491:Pericles of Athens 1434: 1431:Pericles of Athens 1393: 1390:Pericles of Athens 1380: 1377:Pericles of Athens 821: 818:Pericles of Athens 789: 786:Pericles of Athens 663: 660:Pericles of Athens 629: 626:Pericles of Athens 594: 591:Pericles of Athens 524: 521:Pericles of Athens 511: 508:Pericles of Athens 445: 442:Pericles of Athens 397: 394:Pericles of Athens 344: 341:Pericles of Athens 309: 306:Pericles of Athens 274: 271:Pericles of Athens 236: 233:Pericles of Athens 206: 203:Pericles of Athens 2174: 2142: 2138: 2112: 2104: 2077: 2052: 2044: 2023: 2005:Opening paragraph 1966: 1910: 1893: 1876: 1869: 1847: 1807: 1802: 1776: 1768: 1702: 1698: 1673: 1618: 1606: 1581: 1561:comment added by 1551:Modern Inventions 1547: 1501: 1488: 1461: 1428: 1387: 1374: 1231:Anpersonalaccount 1090:Anpersonalaccount 1054:Anpersonalaccount 1011:Anpersonalaccount 933:4. You also said: 836:Anpersonalaccount 815: 783: 701:comment added by 657: 641:Anpersonalaccount 623: 606:Anpersonalaccount 588: 556:Anpersonalaccount 538:Anpersonalaccount 518: 505: 439: 391: 357:Anpersonalaccount 338: 320:Anpersonalaccount 303: 286:Anpersonalaccount 268: 248:Anpersonalaccount 230: 214:Anpersonalaccount 200: 177:Republic of China 72: 71: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2191: 2178: 2146: 2126: 2116: 2092: 2065: 2056: 2032: 2011: 1970: 1914: 1897: 1880: 1857: 1835: 1811: 1790: 1780: 1756: 1706: 1686: 1677: 1622: 1617:, for example.-- 1611:Chinese American 1594: 1585: 1573: 1535: 1505: 1492: 1449: 1432: 1391: 1378: 1229:article itself. 865:in the footnotes 819: 787: 713: 661: 627: 592: 522: 509: 443: 431:Chinese dominoes 395: 342: 307: 272: 234: 204: 68: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2199: 2198: 2194: 2193: 2192: 2190: 2189: 2188: 2176: 2164: 2144: 2114: 2088: 2054: 2029: 2007: 1987: 1968: 1932: 1912: 1895: 1878: 1853: 1809: 1778: 1744: 1724: 1704: 1675: 1640: 1620: 1583: 1556: 1553: 1503: 1490: 1430: 1407: 1405:Size of article 1389: 1376: 1336:Ziran kexue ban 1246: 817: 785: 719: 696: 692: 659: 625: 590: 520: 507: 500:order, such as 441: 423: 393: 340: 305: 270: 232: 202: 77: 64: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2197: 2195: 2187: 2186: 2185: 2184: 2163: 2160: 2159: 2158: 2157: 2156: 2155: 2154: 2153: 2152: 2087: 2084: 2083: 2082: 2081: 2080: 2079: 2078: 2028: 2025: 2006: 2003: 1986: 1983: 1981: 1979: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1931: 1928: 1927: 1926: 1925: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1921: 1920: 1852: 1849: 1824: 1823: 1822: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1818: 1817: 1743: 1740: 1723: 1720: 1719: 1718: 1717: 1716: 1715: 1714: 1713: 1712: 1639: 1636: 1635: 1634: 1633: 1632: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1552: 1549: 1532: 1531: 1530: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1467: 1466: 1465: 1464: 1463: 1462: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1406: 1403: 1402: 1401: 1400: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1371:Nazi occultism 1345: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1326: 1323: 1322: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1306: 1305: 1298: 1297: 1288: 1285: 1284: 1283: 1274: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1266: 1265: 1262: 1261: 1256: 1249: 1245: 1242: 1214: 1213: 1199: 1198: 1189: 1188: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1179: 1178: 1175: 1174: 1171: 1170: 1169: 1168: 1167: 1166: 1163: 1162: 1159: 1158: 1152: 1149: 1148: 1145: 1144: 1140: 1136: 1132: 1131: 1109: 1105: 1081: 1080: 1049: 1048: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1003: 986:. I think the 980: 979: 978: 977: 973: 958: 957: 941: 940: 939: 938: 934: 931: 930: 918: 917: 916: 915: 906: 904: 896: 895: 869: 868: 857: 854: 853: 832: 831: 830: 829: 828: 827: 826: 825: 762: 755: 749: 746: 744: 741: 731: 728: 725: 723: 718: 715: 703:99.244.251.239 691: 688: 687: 686: 670: 669: 668: 667: 636: 635: 634: 633: 533: 532: 531: 530: 529: 528: 483: 482: 473: 472: 471: 470: 467: 464: 461: 455: 454: 422: 419: 418: 417: 403: 402: 401: 353: 352: 351: 350: 349: 348: 316: 315: 314: 313: 281: 280: 279: 278: 243: 242: 241: 240: 188: 187: 184: 174: 168: 162: 156: 146: 140: 134: 128: 122: 116: 113:Three Kingdoms 110: 104: 98: 88: 76: 73: 70: 69: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2196: 2183: 2179: 2172: 2171: 2170: 2169: 2168: 2161: 2151: 2147: 2140: 2139: 2137: 2133: 2129: 2123: 2122: 2121: 2117: 2109: 2108: 2107: 2106: 2105: 2103: 2099: 2095: 2085: 2076: 2072: 2068: 2063: 2062: 2061: 2057: 2049: 2048: 2047: 2046: 2045: 2043: 2039: 2035: 2026: 2024: 2022: 2018: 2014: 2004: 2002: 2001: 1997: 1993: 1984: 1982: 1975: 1971: 1964: 1963: 1962: 1961: 1960: 1959: 1955: 1951: 1950:Gun Powder Ma 1945: 1943: 1936: 1929: 1919: 1915: 1908: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1898: 1891: 1887: 1886: 1885: 1881: 1874: 1873: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1868: 1864: 1860: 1850: 1848: 1846: 1842: 1838: 1833: 1829: 1816: 1812: 1804: 1803: 1801: 1797: 1793: 1787: 1786: 1785: 1781: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1767: 1763: 1759: 1754: 1750: 1741: 1739: 1738: 1734: 1730: 1721: 1711: 1707: 1701:Sure thing.-- 1700: 1699: 1697: 1693: 1689: 1684: 1683: 1682: 1678: 1671: 1670: 1665: 1664: 1659: 1658: 1657: 1656: 1655: 1654: 1650: 1646: 1637: 1627: 1623: 1616: 1612: 1608: 1607: 1605: 1601: 1597: 1592: 1591: 1590: 1586: 1578: 1577: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1572: 1568: 1564: 1563:69.244.133.95 1560: 1550: 1548: 1546: 1542: 1538: 1524: 1520: 1516: 1512: 1511: 1510: 1506: 1499: 1498: 1497: 1493: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1476: 1472: 1460: 1456: 1452: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1437: 1433: 1426: 1425: 1424: 1423: 1422: 1421: 1417: 1413: 1404: 1396: 1392: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1379: 1372: 1368: 1363: 1362: 1361: 1360: 1359: 1358: 1354: 1350: 1337: 1333: 1329: 1328: 1327: 1320: 1316: 1315: 1314: 1307: 1303: 1299: 1295: 1291: 1290: 1289: 1281: 1277: 1276: 1275: 1267: 1263: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1254: 1243: 1241: 1240: 1236: 1232: 1228: 1223: 1219: 1212: 1208: 1204: 1200: 1195: 1190: 1186: 1180: 1176: 1172: 1164: 1160: 1156: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1150: 1146: 1142: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1116: 1110: 1106: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1095: 1091: 1087: 1079: 1075: 1071: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1059: 1055: 1047: 1043: 1039: 1035: 1031: 1027: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1016: 1012: 1002: 998: 994: 989: 988:Bencao Gangmu 985: 981: 975: 974: 971: 967: 963: 959: 954: 950: 946: 942: 936: 935: 932: 928: 924: 919: 913: 912: 911:Bencao Gangmu 907: 905: 902: 901:Bencao Gangmu 897: 893: 892: 891:Bencao Gangmu 887: 886: 884: 882: 881:Bencao Gangmu 877: 876: 875:Bencao Gangmu 870: 866: 862: 858: 855: 850: 849: 848: 847: 846: 845: 841: 837: 824: 820: 813: 812: 811: 807: 803: 798: 794: 793: 792: 788: 780: 779: 778: 777: 776: 775: 771: 767: 759: 753: 739: 735: 716: 714: 712: 708: 704: 700: 689: 685: 681: 677: 672: 671: 666: 662: 655: 654: 653: 652: 651: 650: 646: 642: 632: 628: 620: 619: 618: 617: 616: 615: 611: 607: 603: 598: 597: 593: 584: 581: 579: 575: 571: 566: 565: 561: 557: 553: 548: 547: 543: 539: 527: 523: 516: 515: 514: 510: 503: 498: 497: 496: 492: 488: 485: 484: 480: 475: 474: 468: 465: 462: 459: 458: 457: 456: 451: 450: 449: 448: 444: 437: 432: 428: 425:I just added 420: 416: 412: 408: 407:130.113.81.33 404: 400: 396: 389: 384: 383: 382: 378: 374: 373:130.113.81.33 369: 368: 367: 366: 362: 358: 347: 343: 336: 335: 334: 333: 332: 331: 330: 329: 325: 321: 312: 308: 300: 299: 298: 297: 296: 295: 291: 287: 277: 273: 266: 262: 261: 260: 259: 258: 257: 253: 249: 239: 235: 228: 227: 226: 225: 224: 223: 219: 215: 210: 209: 205: 197: 193: 185: 182: 178: 175: 172: 169: 166: 163: 160: 157: 154: 150: 147: 144: 141: 138: 135: 132: 129: 126: 123: 120: 117: 114: 111: 108: 105: 102: 99: 96: 92: 89: 86: 85:Shang Dynasty 83: 82: 81: 74: 67: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 2165: 2089: 2086:Layout again 2030: 2008: 1988: 1980: 1947: 1942:Aristophanes 1938: 1933: 1854: 1825: 1745: 1725: 1667: 1661: 1641: 1613:is still an 1554: 1533: 1468: 1408: 1342: 1335: 1331: 1324: 1318: 1312: 1301: 1293: 1286: 1279: 1272: 1253:Kexue yuekan 1252: 1248:Hi everyone, 1247: 1221: 1215: 1193: 1127: 1123: 1113: 1085: 1082: 1050: 1034:Nongye kaogu 1033: 1029: 1025: 1007: 987: 983: 961: 952: 948: 944: 926: 922: 909: 899: 889: 879: 873: 864: 860: 833: 796: 737: 733: 720: 693: 637: 602:Song Dynasty 599: 585: 582: 567: 549: 534: 479:this article 424: 354: 317: 282: 244: 211: 192:Nathan Sivin 189: 171:Qing Dynasty 165:Ming Dynasty 159:Yuan Dynasty 149:Song Dynasty 137:Tang Dynasty 91:Zhou Dynasty 78: 65: 43: 37: 1669:papermaking 1557:—Preceding 1334:广西民族大学学报 , 1120:Zhuge Liang 1104:Shangshan.) 861:in the text 722:permission. 697:—Preceding 186:Total = 135 131:Sui Dynasty 107:Han Dynasty 101:Qin Dynasty 36:This is an 1992:Queenqpawn 1729:Yoganate79 1727:people? -- 1645:Yoganate79 1201:Cheers, -- 923:coagulants 2051:Cheers.-- 1985:Ice Cream 1890:shan shui 1722:Vandalism 1609:Right. A 1347:Cheers,-- 1108:citation. 738:Qingyi lu 676:Jagged 85 421:Additions 199:Thanks.-- 196:polymaths 66:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 1638:Paper??? 1615:American 1559:unsigned 1515:Benjwong 1487:right.-- 1349:Madalibi 1203:Madalibi 1165:Theory 3 1161:Theory 2 1157:Theory 1 1070:Madalibi 1038:Madalibi 1030:doufu pi 993:Madalibi 970:Voltaire 802:Madalibi 766:Madalibi 764:way!!!-- 699:unsigned 453:periods. 1663:papyrus 1580:that.-- 1086:article 962:existed 576:" and " 572:" and " 427:Mahjong 265:Su Song 39:archive 1907:taotie 1742:Layout 1128:Yijing 1115:Yijing 927:recipe 761:cited. 1471:Iciac 1412:hbent 1218:Taisu 1026:zaofa 966:hijra 953:about 388:heqin 302:34.-- 16:< 2132:talk 2128:Mdw0 2098:talk 2094:Mdw0 2071:talk 2067:Mdw0 2038:talk 2034:Mdw0 2017:talk 2013:Mdw0 1996:talk 1954:talk 1863:talk 1859:Mdw0 1841:talk 1837:Mdw0 1826:The 1796:talk 1792:Mdw0 1762:talk 1758:Mdw0 1733:talk 1692:talk 1688:Mdw0 1649:talk 1600:talk 1596:Mdw0 1567:talk 1541:talk 1537:Mdw0 1519:talk 1475:talk 1455:talk 1451:Mdw0 1416:talk 1353:talk 1235:talk 1227:tofu 1207:talk 1194:fact 1094:talk 1074:talk 1058:talk 1042:talk 1015:talk 997:talk 968:was 949:plus 945:were 914:..." 903:..." 894:..." 840:talk 806:talk 770:talk 758:Tofu 751:here 707:talk 680:talk 645:talk 610:talk 560:talk 542:talk 491:talk 429:and 411:talk 377:talk 361:talk 324:talk 290:talk 252:talk 218:talk 155:= 20 139:= 11 127:= 10 109:= 34 97:= 24 1344:it. 1222:are 1124:not 883:... 736:is 487:JSR 183:= 3 173:= 2 167:= 6 161:= 7 145:= 5 133:= 5 121:= 1 115:= 5 103:= 2 87:= 1 2134:) 2100:) 2073:) 2040:) 2019:) 1998:) 1956:) 1865:) 1843:) 1798:) 1764:) 1735:) 1694:) 1651:) 1643:-- 1602:) 1569:) 1543:) 1521:) 1477:) 1457:) 1418:) 1355:) 1237:) 1209:) 1130:". 1096:) 1076:) 1060:) 1044:) 1017:) 999:) 842:) 808:) 772:) 709:) 682:) 647:) 612:) 562:) 544:) 493:) 413:) 379:) 363:) 326:) 292:) 254:) 220:) 2130:( 2096:( 2069:( 2036:( 2015:( 1994:( 1952:( 1861:( 1839:( 1794:( 1760:( 1731:( 1690:( 1647:( 1598:( 1565:( 1539:( 1517:( 1473:( 1453:( 1414:( 1351:( 1233:( 1205:( 1197:. 1092:( 1072:( 1056:( 1040:( 1013:( 995:( 929:. 838:( 804:( 768:( 705:( 678:( 643:( 608:( 558:( 540:( 489:( 481:. 409:( 375:( 359:( 322:( 288:( 250:( 216:( 179:/ 151:/ 93:/ 50:.

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index