Talk:Speaker of the Knesset

2746:

other users, and I greatly admire to their wonderful work. Their lists contains both valuable information and great graphics (which you, Number 57, consider absolutely irrelevant to lists of officeholders). I said before that, if pictures are missing, they can be replaced either by coat of arms of a country in question or in some other way. Original research and the fact that many pictures are missing certainly can't be excuse to completely cut off pictures and graphics from lists. I ask that users base their input on the merits of the respective designs by looking after great examples which, frankly, can be seen all over WP. There is no reason to left lists about Israeli officeholders out of great standards which are set on many other similar lists. Cheers! --

1280:"Chairman of the Knesset" is a direct translation of "Yoshev-Rosh Ha'Knesset" in Hebrew. But while in English one can change the order of the words "Chairman" and "Knesset" and still get a valid expression ("Knesset Chairman"), attempting to do the same in Hebrew will produce a meaningless expression: "Knesset Yoshev-Rosh"/"Ha'Knesset Yoshev-Rosh" etc. make no sense in Hebrew. Why is it so important? Because when Hebrew speakers translate from Hebrew to English, they are very likely to both use "Chairman" and to use it in the direct translation "Chairman of the Knesset", yes, the one that you have excluded from your searches. So by excluding this term, you excluded the common and preferred one by Hebrew speakers. 1324:

might I add). The official Hebrew subtitles used in cinemas all over Israel, refer to the Speaker of the House (Morgan Freeman) as "The spokesperson of the White house" throughout the film, including when he becomes the Acting President. And trust me, the people who translated the film understand English better than the average Israeli, and they still didn't think for a second that it is very unlikely that the White House Press Secretary becomes the Commander-in-Chief. Funny or ignorant as it may seem, the reason is that most Israelis have no idea the a "Speaker" might be the administrative head of a parliament. No "leftovers from the British Mandate" in this case.

1396:

country media. As much as I like the New York Times as source or the Guardian for that matter, in this case it is imo not of interest, they would referred to it in the way that makes sense to their readers. So, I think what we have to look at is how is it referred to in English language Israeli sources. I already mentioned one, and I think it is an important one, see above, I'm going to mention another one, which I googled, "The Parliamentary System of Israel" by Samuel Sager, with a foreword by Abba Eban, Syracuse University Press, 1985 which has "The Chairman and Vice-Chairmen of the Knesset" on

3047:

Pictures should be placed if they are uploaded. Years of birth/death are meant to provide a bit more information about an officeholder. As for the hybrid versions, I said before, I don't think they are in any way better than my preferred version. Next, if there is a consensus of editors over a issue, there will be an implementation of the result of that consensus. Period. We have a talk page discussion, we have a RfC thread - all of that is meant to produce a clear consensus, and I will implement its results as soon as possible. So far, 3 users (

1460:, the chairman of the Knesset is styled "speaker," let no one expect to see him ... But the difference between Knesset and Commons reach more deeply ... Israel's parliamentary system ... is to be traced back rather to continental European and republican traditions..." and is further explained on page 9. So, what it ammounts to is that "Speaker" in the British sense, and "Chairman/President" in the continental European sense is not the same thing, because the respective functions are not the same. That's interesting, but all the same, 3600:

don't need any colours, pictures and graphics in general, that it should be just plain text" etc and that he'll remodel all lists of Israeli officeholders to look like lists he made at some Israeli ministries (you can see it at the Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Foreign Affairs etc)... He even planed to remodel lists of Israeli Presidents and PMs in that way, and that horrified me. It would grossly degrade those lists, striping them down of any graphics, colours and pictures and I just wanted to prevent that from happening. --

1420:, assuming that it has "Chairman of the Knesset" in its older issues and eventually changed to "Speaker", and see if I can falsify it. Not having done that, I lean towards Chairman/Chairperson for the above mentioned reason, which is shared by Virant, that outside of the Anglo-Saxon world, we misunderstand the term "Speaker", because in our world, it's a "Spokesperson", wheras there cannot possibly be any misunderstanding, if it is called "Chairman/Chairperson of...", but I remain open minded. Cheers, 3540:

level, when I was a child (say 40 years ago), it seemed that one side would make up its lawn signs red and the other blue with no particular consistency to the matter. (It was probably driven as much by whether the county party organization supported candidate A, using red, or candidate B, using blue, at the top of the primary ballot.) But I wouldn't question letting Republicans be red as far back as they go, and Democrats blue. What would be the point of that?

3084:(b) More importantly that's not how things work. What matters in a debate is the quality of the arguments. If one side argues in line with Knowledge (XXG) policy and the other doesn't, then the number on each side is irrelevant. As a long-time Knowledge (XXG) editor, you should be well aware of that (and you are also ignoring the fact that one of the editors you list agreeing with you has pointed out that the colours and placeholder images are problematic). 3032:'s issues, but I still think the table could use a bit of color. I don't see the missing images as being a big issue, but the place-holder images do seem problematic. I don't see a strong reason to include or exclude the birth/death dates. It's too minor of a detail to argue over. I would also like to reiterate that the compromise solutions are perfectly acceptable to me, and I think some discussion should occur over their use. 198: 767:"on Ynet are all for Chair of various Knesset committees (e.g. "chairman of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee", "chairman of the Knesset lobby" etc), whilst in your generic Google search, 26 of the first 40 hits for "Chairman of the Knesset" are actually for committee chairs. You need to search for "Knesset chairman" to make it clear what you are seaching for. This gives a totally different picture: 2880:. Both styles have their advantages (minimalist function vs visually appealing form), but I think option 2 is the better choice. I don't find the pictures or colors distracting at all. Options 3 and 4 are both perfectly acceptable compromise solutions, if the involved editors were willing to support those. Despite my preference for minimalism, option 1 looks way too much like a color-blind engineer designed it. 756: 2274:

still have many imperfections when compared to my format... For instance, Mapai, Alignment and the Labor Party have pretty much the same ideologies and background, so we can put the color for Labor at all of them. Same applies to One Israel coalition, which was formed around the Labor Party (its leader was Ehud Barak, Labor Party leader). I'd also put the coat of arms of Israel where pictures don't exist. --

843: 85: 848: 64: 764: 4019:

center" (say, green) and "generally right" (say, blue) and then make different parties of those categories be different shades of the base color. And at that, at least in Israel, "generally religious" parties don't really live in that spectrum at all, and would need a fourth color. Certainly earlier in Israel's history they didn't. But trying to micro-fit each party into a specific color? Really?

863: 33: 2760:"Because other articles are the same" is one of the worst possible arguments, as it completely ignores the need to consider the quality of the material in question. I want the two tables to be judged on their merits, not how frequently they are repeated elsewhere. What is the problem with that? If you think your format is better, then there shouldn't be a problem to allow a direct comparison. 3536:.) I think in general terms the point has been simply to use colors to easily show differences between competing parties. It is convenient to use today's party colors for today's parties, of course, but the purpose of this exercise is clarity, not historical accuracy. I can tell when Federalists have been President and when Democrat-Republicans have just by looking at the changing colors. 858: 95: 760: 798: 2042:(←) I think the revised table above is an improvement over the current version, both visually and in terms of the information it conveys. If someone were looking for a simple table of text data, there are obviously sources for that. Knowledge (XXG) can use images, formatting, and other graphical elements to make the information both interesting and helpful for readers. So we should. 833: 813: 828: 818: 2006:

for a few times? Its not so hard to do... After all, accessibility can't be imposed at the expense of graphical quality of the list. I'd always prefer more info than less, that include years of birth/death in my opinion. Again, just look all the other similar lists. I truly believe lists like this should be 'standardised' in a graphically good and information rich way. --

803: 663: 667: 659: 2332:

Ehud Barak, was the leader of the coalition. Coat of arms should be placed if picture don't exist to avoid empty space, its a solution implemented on countless other lists and looks very well. As for other stuff, again - pictures, colours, and other graphical elements are intended to make the information both interesting and helpful for readers. --

1287: 3110:

Mapai, Alignment and the Labour Party has pretty much same ideologies). Next, consensus of editors is a cornerstone of activity on WP, it is the ultimate goal of all discussions on talk page, RfC thread, etc. When its reached, the result of it will be implemented. As a long-time Knowledge (XXG) editor, I'm sure you are well aware of that. --

900: 5440:

that my frequent responding slowed the RfC process, and I'll try to avoid doing that in the future... Lets just say in the end that I really love Knowledge (XXG), and everything I did here in the past 3 years was only intended to make this place better, not worse. I'll try to continue doing things here in that way in the future. Cheers! --

5315:

that). I definitely think we should keep the legend (its already part of all four lists). As for coloring the party box, it was a part of closing agreement, and that can be changed only if we all agree on that. For me, it is only important not to remove any present data from those four lists (especially from the list of Prime Ministers) --

908: 904: 2782:

in my opinion). I never expected that all the lists of officeholders be the same, I expect them to have some common good characteristics - like party colors, pictures (if they are uploaded) and years of birth/death. I'm sure my format is better, and I want a direct comparison. I think we have that comparison here. --

3698:

different parties - Herut and the Liberal Party. One of the three parties that formed the Labour Party was also formed as a deliberate alternative to Mapai (which with it eventually remerged). There are also several instances of alliances (such as One Israel) which combined different parties with different colours.

3599:

Thanks for your support for my preferred version, Steven! I'd also like to thank you for your effort to elaborate your views on these issues. I'd just say that, as you can see from above, all this discussion started when Number 57 reverted my version of this list, claiming it was "awful", that "lists

3154:

lists of officeholders (some of them I listed above). None of them looks like your preferred version, which is awful and oversimplified. Those elements, clearly, has its place in the lists as well as valuable information, and they should be a part of it. I'm glad to see other users agree with me, not

3109:

can not be a reason to eliminate all the graphics from the list of officeholders (that's what you want to do). There is only a question whether Mapai and Alignment should be marked with the same colour as the Labour Party, or we should find some different shade to mark them (but not too different, as

2781:

Number 57, there's no doubt users will decide whether mine or yours format is better on their merits, the quality of the material in question etc. That is absolutely certain. I never asked users to make all lists to be the same, just to consider what is done so far on other lists (with great success,

2388:

Coat of arms often replace missing pictures if they aren't uploaded. That's what good experience from many articles here says. As for the ministers list, I changed them to previous versions because your versions lacks any form of graphics and party colours. I already answered you - pictures, colours,

2005:

I'm glad to hear you're ready to include party colors and pictures. Of course, we can include them only if they exist, its impossible to do otherwise. Nothing of this is a step backwards in terms of accessibility. How can it be? Is it so important to see all the officeholders without moving the mouse

1884:

Everything agreed should be changed if its not in the service of quality of articles. The problem about that format is because it, frankly, looks like a chicken without feathers. Without party colours, dates of birth/death and pictures, its impossible for me to imagine a table format of good quality.

1395:

Hi guys, let me first just say that this is imo a very good discussion. It's civil, it's consensus oriented, and it deals with something that is not worth arguing about, so let me argue. Personally, I think we should not bother with how the presidency of the Knesset is referred to in English speaking

1193:

Sure, but only for English speaking countries. I should not like to be present, when you call the President of one of the French chambers of Parliament "Speaker", or even the German not to mention the Swiss. Contrary to what you seem to think, StevenJ81, the term "Speaker" in this sense, is not known

932:

OK, thet's more likely for an opposition. So, on the one hand we have "Chairman", which is the direct translation, is more common (Ynet, Google) and exists in the english wikipedia as an equivalent to Speaker; and on the other hand we have "Speaker", which is almost always used in the Knesset website

5417:

Me as moderator: I need to be more diligent about distilling the key points and concerns from the discussion earlier on—and about not being so quick to insert my interpretations. At the end of the day, Sundostund mostly only cared about having the first column colored, and having pictures. He didn't

4974:

And, FWIW, I think the variety of colors that would be present, without any context of how the minister's party fit into the particular coalition, wouldn't add anything to the table, except perhaps confusion. So I think I would prefer no colors on those lists myself. In any event, I'd really like to

4508:

What I would suggest is: Look through the four lists I mentioned. Tell me if you think there are actually any parties there where there is a real question. I don't think there are. Meretz is lefist, Shinui is centrist, and everything else is quite evident. That's why we're limiting it to these four,

4420:

doing this for other cabinet ministries. There are too many parties, and I'm not sure that showing the range of parties in these cases is very meaningful. Indeed, the panoply of colors is likely to be more confusing than enlightening. As I have said previously, I have a couple of ideas on this. But

4213:

will prevail here. HOWEVER: This applies only to Speaker, and I think Prime Minister and President. As things now stand I would not support this option for a broad set of ministries, and even if everyone else absolutely stayed the same 3-2 doth not a consensus make. I have a proposal in mind for

3775:

At the level of individual Ministries, however, with Ministers coming from many different parties, how to tell that story with colors is far less clear. Center and religious parties have been part of many kinds of coalitions; what to do about that? Very tricky. I'd support trying to find a way to

3616:

I just can't understand someone's desire to eliminate colours, pictures and all graphics from lists, and I'll never support that. I'm positive that my preferred version is the best for this list, that previous lists of Israeli ministers which Number 57 remodeled should be reverted, and that lists of

3527:

I am in favor of both pictures and Hebrew versions of names. Neither is absolutely essential, but both of them add to the usability of the list. (I would note that the Hebrew is actually the legal name of these individuals, so from that perspective its inclusion is appropriate.) On an office like

3272:

Its perfectly clear and logical that parties of same or similar ideologies have the same or similar colours. Majority of socialist parties use red, not blue or something else. Again, you are trying to eliminate all the colours, pictures and graphics in general from lists by claiming that all of them

2331:

Please, don't forget that the Labor Party was founded mostly as a merger of Mapai and Alignment so it would be appropriate to mark them with the colour of the Labor. As for the One Israel, it indeed included Meimad and Gesher, but the labor Party was a dominant party in that coalition. Labor leader,

1983:

My main concern why we need to include this additional information - lists are meant to be compact and easy to navigate. Birth and death dates are totally irrelevant to the subject, so I cannot see any reason whatsoever to include them. Party colours perhaps, but for some parties we don't have them,

1922:

This doesn't solve the problem of the colours (original research/colour blindness) nor the fact that many pictures are missing (and even if they weren't having them makes it more difficult to read the table because you can only see six rows on a page). Birth and death dates are totally irrelevant to

1434:

Indeed, the English language media in Israel is key, and as you can see from the table above, they strongly favour "Speaker" by a ratio of 13:1. Combined with the fact that this is how the Knesset describes the post, I cannot see how "chairman" can be considered a better option under Knowledge (XXG)

1098:

That may be so, but the question imo is, whether it is consistent with en.WP policy or not. My reference to the mandate was ironical, by the way. If the Knesset has used the un-British term "Chairman" in the 1950s, shortly after the mandate ended, but changed it later to "Speaker", British influence

5468:

You're welcome, Steven! See you around. Just for record, I modified Prime Ministers and Opposition leaders according to our agreement - only left-most column (number box) is colored, all other cells are without colors, legend is staying. That's the case on all four lists from now on. Also, all data

5180:

Well, I think we need either that or a legend. Frankly, I think coloring the party cell keeps it more compact, and helps show why we colored the left-most column in the first place. If the two of you are happy doing this with a legend instead, I won't object. But the closing agreed to doing it this

4970:

I had planned to propose coloring based on who the PM was in the particular term, but it seems clear that such an approach is not what either of you was interested in. So unless Number 57 (or someone else, not me) is willing to provide historical party colors, I suggest removing the colors entirely

4911:

Yes, definitely. Only the four articles in question. Other lists of Israeli officeholders (ministers) will be formatted in some other way... Anyway, I just implemented Option 2 for Speakers (minus placeholders for missing pictures, as agreed). I think I'll leave it up to you, guys, to bring in line

4582:

Maybe navy-blue would be better for Kadima... As for coloring of all cells, it can be removed as far as I'm concerned. I'm not really bothered about that. We need coloring for sure in the cell where is the number of a officeholder (1st Speaker, 3rd President, etc), and maybe party box too... As can

4538:

Colour-wise, Kadima is incorrect - they should be royal blue, not purple. I also note that three of the lists colour all cells, not just the party colours one on the right, and Kadima is marked as pale yellow for some reason. If we are going with option 2 here, then the colouring of the other cells

4523:

I'm inclined to support your recommendation for closure, Steven. Any solution which will keep Presidents, Prime Ministers and Opposition leaders in their current look, and which will implement Option 2 for Speakers, is perfectly acceptable to me. I have no problem to support removal of placeholders

4180:

I'm certainly OK with that, Steven. If you take a look above, you'll see that I didn't started this discussion on your talk page in the first place. As for the RfC, if I saw it correctly, 4 users so far (including you and me) supported Option 2. 1 user (Number 57) supported Option 1. It pretty much

4094:

Number 57, I clearly stated that I'm bothered not only about Presidents and Prime Ministers, but also about Knesset speakers. I wouldn't even look into lists of Israeli ministers if you, Number 57, didn't tell me that you plan to remodel all lists of Israeli officeholders (including Presidents, PMs

3539:

Honestly, the consistent identification of Republicans with red and Democrats with blue at the national level only goes back to about Reagan's presidency. Both parties have been inclined to use red, white and blue historically, for obvious reasons. And to be honest with you, at the local politics

2595:

Sundostund is in favour of option 2 as he believes that more information is always better, that graphics have an important place in table formatting and make lists more appealing to readers. He also believes the party colours can be assigned to defunct parties based on the parties they merged into,

2591:

I am in favour of option 1 - it is clear and simple, and can be viewed on a single page. The downsides of the alternative are that many of the party colours are original research; that several pictures are missing, that it includes a lot of unnecessary information (e.g. birth/death dates and Hebrew

2303:

Re the colours for Mapai and the Alignment, that's pure original research. Unless there is evidence they used red (not all socialist parties do), then we cant include it. As for the One Israel alliance, it included two other parties - Meimad and Gesher. I believe Meimad are generally represented by

2273:

Well, I can't be constructive in a way to back down on my opinion and to accept yours. I don't expect you to do that, neither... I'm glad to see you accept many of my suggestions, especially at the format you titled 'Agreed format for lists of Israeli politicians (with colour and pictures)', but it

2119:

This form of discussion is only poisoning the well (although I suppose it'a an improvement from reporting me to ANI as you did yesterday!). What is better or worse is completely subjective - i.e. an opinion, and certainly nothing is unacceptable unless in violation of Knowledge (XXG) policies. Your

1979:

I would be more amenable to the first if properly implemented (i.e. not including it where the party colour is unknown, which is most of the parties that no longer exist). The second, in my view, would make lists unreasonably difficult to read - on the Ministry of Agriculture list I can see 27 rows

1945:

Well, if you talk about colour blindness then lets also talk about total blindness. Blind people can't read articles on WP at all, so we need to dismantle the whole project because of that? As I said, all the elements I want are part of almost all lists of officeholders here. Good practice put them

1672:

can be better than presently user at other lists? That format is totally awful - it lacks party colors, pictures and some useful extra data like dates of birth and death of officeholders. As for Hebrew name, I think this lists looks better with it that without. Anyway, as for my version of the list

1323:

Finally, just because it was mentioned in your discussion with , I must stress that for the vast majority of Israelis, the word "Speaker" means either a spokesperson or a loudspeaker. A very recent example will be the Hebrew subtitles for the film "Olympus has Fallen" (which is a pretty silly film,

5439:

Steven, I think you're a great moderator. You stepped into this discussion, and you did a really great job in finding a compromise here. Without you, all of this would last much longer, with many more heated arguing etc... I'm really grateful to you for your role in this discussion. I fully accept

5195:

Guys, don't argue over this. I'm perfectly happy if we both color the party cell and keep legend, but I'll accept anything on which you two can agree. As for party cell color, what to do with Kadima? In the Prime Minister list, so far its color was pale yellow, I guess that would be changed. If we

4296:

do use colors and pictures. On many other wikis they do not. Still, subject to the guidelines that follow, more people have been in favor of an approach using colors and pictures than not. I would add that to some readers, the color coding will help, while I doubt that the color coding will hinder

3739:

As to usability, and I am simplifying a complex point here, some people are verbal learners, some are visual learners, and some (as far as it goes) are audio learners. For some people, the fact that the party names are there makes the colors redundant or even irrelevant. You clearly fall in this

3001:

If consensus is to use colours, then I accept they should be used, but only where they are not original research. This is why I produced the hybrid versions - to show how your preferred versions would look if policies were properly applied to them. Local consensus does not override core policy. If

2939:

Number 57, I'll repeat what I said earlier: Original research certainly can't be excuse to completely cut off colours and pictures and graphics in general from lists. Aesthetics are important part of these lists, as well as information. Your preferred version is drastically oversimplified, and I'm

1756:

I don't even know from where to start talking about how awful the list on the Agriculture Ministry page is, so I'll just recommend you to see (pretty much any) list of officeholders on WP - almost all of them have: 1) Colour coding for political parties 3) Years of birth and death of officeholders

4709:

I do think if you are going to use blues for Kadima and Shinui, as well as Likud, you need to distinguish the colors from each other a bit, even if that takes the colors a little off their "official" shade. And as Likud is the most important of the three parties, keeping Likud closer to its shade

4018:

You would need reliable sources as to whether Party A was to the right or left of party B, and at that I'm not sure you would have much outright consensus between sources. I think you could probably get away with loosely dividing parties into categories of "generally left" (say, red), "generally

2723:

As there is no manual of style, what happens elsewhere is not particularly relevant (people have probably copied formats from one article to anothers), and you neglect to mention that you have been heavily involved in developing some of those articles (Sundostund's contribution history is worth a

2708:

I think those articles speaks for themselves - they are examples of good editing, both in terms of valuable information and great graphics. According to Number 57, "lists don't need any graphics and party colours, those elements are totally useless in lists" (that's pretty much his stance on this

2233:

It is unfounded in reality to claim that something is good when it isn't. You have your opinion on this, and I totally respect that (my extensive participation in this discussion is a clear evidence of that respect). I have my opinion too - more information can never be irrelevant for an article.

2200:

Anyway, back to the proper discussion - why is the agreed version "less informative"? The only information being removed is the birth and death dates, which are totally irrelevant to the list. The party colours and the pictures are not informative - they are merely decoration. And as I've pointed

1793:

Nothing of this have anything to do with my wishes. A lot of editors (who are on WP much longer than me) already established through good practice that lists of officeholders must have some elements. They include colours for parties, years of birth and death and pictures (if pictures exist). The

732:

3. Haaretz, with all due respect, is the least widespread nationwide newspaper in Israel. Ynet, the most widespread Israeli newspaper online (and a close second in print) has 1,790 results for "Chairman of the Knesset" and only 43 for "Speaker of the Knesset". Searching the exact phrase in Google

5314:

Number 57, discussion was very long indeed and its totally possible to miss out something. But, coloring the party box was a part of closing agreement, to which all of us agreed. If you are so troubled by that, 57, then maybe it would be better to color only the number box (if Steven can support

3367:

I myself hope that this RfC thread will eventually help us to resolve this issue. I totally agree that there doesn't really seem to be any end in sight for the debate between Number 57 and myself. Some users already said their opinion, hopefully others will follow suit. As for the party colours,

2745:

It certainly is relevant to show here examples of lists of officeholders elsewhere. Working on lists of officeholders really is one of my great interests on WP, but I definitely didn't formatted all those lists I mentioned here. It can be seen by histories of those lists. They are edited by many

2182:

Your stance that your table format is 'a huge improvement' is also an opinion, unfounded in reality. Years of experience in editing on WP led editors to implement some elements which are a part of almost all lists of officeholders today. Party colours, pictures and years of birth/death are among

5395:): I appreciate your enthusiasm. But the fact that you responded to every last comment in the RfC substantially slowed the process, in my view. When you have solicited outside opinions, by all means ask clarifying questions if you need to. Otherwise, let the discussion play itself out naturally. 5290:

I personally don't care that much if the party box is colored, if neither of you cares. But I think it's up to Sundostund at this point. If he's willing to live without the party box colored, then I'm willing to revise the close accordingly. If he wants the party box colored, he has a formally

4664:

Shinui is ok as it stands, but I think Kadima needs tweaking from purple to dark blue. Steven - I don't want to argue, but I believe that telling a story in this way is misleading readers - the majority of readers would automatically assume that the colour a party is marked by is those it used.

4567:

As for which color ... We haven't decided on those. They should be consistent with each other. But in general, leftist parties are always in "reddish", while rightist parties are always in "blueish". If so, then Kadima and Shinui have to be something markedly different from those—say, yellow or

3743:

I do take your point that the splits and mergers of Israeli parties are not always so obvious. I'm not sure what to suggest on that. Again, my take is that the colors are intended to tell a story, rather than being "official". The problem boils down to what story you are telling, and whether

3697:

As you asked me not to respond to your comment on the talk page, I thought I could do so here (* * *). The reason the colours bother me so much is that they are original research. Your idea of using "ish" colours to represent past parties doesn't solve the problem. Likud was formed by some very

3575:

If not, keep everything that evolved into today's Labor "reddish", and everything that evolved into today's Likud "blueish". If you feel there should be different shades representing different predecessor parties, do that. But this will show graphically that parties generally associated with

3561:

If you are going to try to enforce some sort of historical accuracy standard on such lists, then every single list for every single country is going to have to be changed. And the functionality of being able to look at the list and quickly see power shifting from one party to the next will be

2724:

look if anyone wants to find out why so many lists look the same). You are also ignoring the concerns about original research and the fact that many pictures are missing. I will only ask that users base their input on the merits of the respective designs, not on what happens elsewhere. Thanks,

3046:

The colors for early leaders aren't really controversial, because early leaders mostly belong to Mapai and Alingment - parties which later formed the Labor Party, so they are politically and ideologically similar to the present Labor Party. We can mark Mapai and Alingment with Labor colors...

2090:

J, thank you very much for your support. I'm glad someone else beside me see the difference in terms of graphical quality and amount of information between proposed versions. Number 57, that 'agreement' would bring dramatic drop in both quality and in amount of information of lists of Israeli

3198:. There is no Manual of Style for those lists, and there is no core policy which ban colours and pictures to be part of lists. They certainly should not be removed, and your awful, oversimplified, preferred version speaks enough for itself. Other users so far said what they think about it. -- 2366:

Please don't go round changing the agreed format on other articles whilst we are still discussing this here. You don't seem to be making any attempt to compromise. I'm still waiting for an answer to the question of what information the party colour and the picture actually adds to the list.

1360:

For fluent English speakers, "Speaker" is an established term for their parliaments, and it happens also to be an established usage for the presiding officer of the Knesset. There should surely be a redirect from variants of "Chair of the Knesset", but the established usage in English, per

5026:

And, if I understood our agreement correctly, we now only need to ensure that only number box and party box are colored, at all four lists. Nothing else is to be changed at those four lists, right? If that's the case, its pretty easy to make that change (to color number box and party box).

2234:

Whenever we have pictures, party colours and years of birth/death we should put them in. It makes a list graphically better and gives additional information, as I said countless times so far. I'm doubt you'd like my improvements of your table format; I already made format which I prefer. --

3830:

Number 57, all the parties you listed above already had its party colors before you remodeled lists of ministers into your ugly, oversimplified preferred version. I look forward to see them reverted to their previous versions, which I think were great... Anyway, my main concerns are well

1808:

If it has nothing to do with your wishes, then I'm sure you'll be ok to leave this alone then. As pointed out, using colours which we don't know if parties actually used is inappropriate. More information is not always better when that information is not relevant to the subject at hand.

5361:

Number 57, if this is acceptable to you, and if Steven is willing to revise the close accordingly, then we're pretty much done here. I'll remove colors from all the boxes on four lists in question, except from left-most column (number box), and hopefully I'll move on to other things...

3543:

How to handle evolving parties is trickier. But the Canadian and UK lists both make historical Conservative or Tory parties blue, just a different shade from that of the current party. That seems reasonable to me: It shows with some clarity that the party that was once "Tory" is now

3124:

WP:OR can be a reason to eliminate anything - that's why it's a core policy. If you don't know the party colours you cannot make them up to make your tables look nice. And discussions are judged by the closing admin based on the strength of the arguments, not on numbers - that's why

4036:

Steven, I hope you saw that I agreed with you that marking parties of various ministers with colors can be way trickier than doing the same thing on lists of Presidents, Prime Ministers and Knesset speakers. Those lists are of my great concern, lists of ministers can go either way.

3155:

only those who voted here but also those who formatted all the great lists which I listed above. Knowledge (XXG) is not a democracy, but one of its foundations is consensus. Its results will be implemented. None of us own this project, and other users will decide outcome of this. --

3701:

Aside from that, my other main concern is usability. The coloured/pictured lists are very difficult to actually read because there are so few rows on every page (six compared to close to 30 for the alternative). And why do we need a key if the party name is displayed in the rows?

3735:

for people to make Democrats blue and Republicans red, but (a) there's nothing formal/legal/official about those colors, and (b) for the purpose of what the colors are trying to accomplish here, they could be green and gold. It's really, really not about whether the colors are

1046:

I guess, in 1958, political correctness regarding women was not an issue yet. As far as I know, but I may be mistaken, "Speaker" is the term in English speaking countries only, which of course leads to translating it as such into English. In many countries, such as France:

1757:

and 3) Pictures (if they exist; if not, then usually coat of arms of a country in question is put in their place). You can't expect for real that lists of Israeli officeholders can be totally different from already established good practice on other lists on WP. Cheers --

4478:

Re colours, the argument about including Rafi in the same group of colours as Mapai etc just shows how weak the general argument for colours is. Rafi may have been formed as a breakaway from Mapai, but it ended up considering forming a "center-right" alliance with Herut

3576:

today's Labor dominated Israel's politics until the late '70's, and that Likud only started sharing power at that point. And that's an important and compelling picture. The colors only show the evolution, they are not intended to represent parties in historical purity.

1276:

Your search methodology excluded most (if not all) of the results containing the terms "Chairman of the Knesset" and "Speaker of the Knesset", leaving only the results for "Knesset Chairman" and "Knesset Speaker". It means that all of your results are partial and very

3903:

I have no intention to turn Steven's talk page into yet another battleground for our futile discussions, Number 57. I never claimed those colors were the official party colors, they were meant to be a graphic representation of succession of various ministers. Yes, I

5011:

I guess it would be really hard to provide colors for all minor parties which had ministers since 1948 (many of those parties don't even exist, some of them are defunct for 20 years or more), so maybe it would be better to just remove color from lists of ministers.

5418:

care what the colors were, or what they represented. Number 57 wanted neither one, of course. But at the end of the day, what he mostly cared about was (a) only official party colors were acceptable, no matter what, (b) that that should not be construed somehow as

4202:

Sundostund, Number 57 came here to talk because I had asked the two of you to stop arguing at the RfC itself—and you kept talking. He and I were having a calm conversation until you turned up the temperature. So, please: stop feeling a need to answer absolutely

1862:

Thanks for your co-operative approach :) The problem is (as above), we already have an agreed format for the Israeli politician lists (the one on the Agriculture Ministry page). What is so bad about that list (or what do you think needs to be added and why?).

1771:

I suspect (judging by your contribution history) that's because you've been going round 'standardising' them according to your own wishes. I fully expect that lists can be different in different areas as different countries have different political realities.

4333:

Using "official party colors" has its own problems, though. Most of all, I don't think it helps tell a story; it is likely to be confusing. And the question of when you would be allowed to change them for the sake of web page legibility, and ... and ... and

2141:

I'm not poisoning anything, Number 57. I just want to prevent this place and its articles going backwards in any way, including graphical quality and amount of information. I love this place, its part of my life for years and I'm sure you feel the same way.

4635:

57, we have been saying all along that the colors are telling a general story, they do not have to represent the party's historical colors. If you want to make centrist parties blue, since they both use that color, do you want rightist parties to be green?

2917:

The main issue is not that the colours or pictures are distracting, but rather that some of the colours are original research and many pictures are missing. No-one actually seems to be addressing these concerns, but instead concentrating on the aesthetics.

5227:

Who's arguing? I'm a little frustrated that Number 57 didn't follow that bit of the discussion. However, I'm going to draw a line on this: coloring the party box was in the agreed close, and we should do that. I don't care whether there is also a legend.

2288:

Also, please tell me about your intentions for lists of Presidents and Prime Ministers of Israel. As I said earlier, I think I'd need to be rushed to the ER if I sit at my computer one day and see they are remodeled after list at Ministry of Agriculture.

763:) and the main pages about the position refer to it as the "Speaker". You have also made a rather big mistake in your Googling methodology - by searching for "Chairman of the Knesset", you get a lot of ambiguous results - the first two pages of hits for " 5106:. Only number box and party box are colored there, as you can see it. I'd like to keep color key/legend, I don't really see the reason to remove it. Maybe the Knesset column should stay as its now, in grey, but I also don't feel strongly about that. -- 3971:

Yes you are. If you are inserting colours into articles to represent parties, and those colours were not in fact used by those parties, then you are misleading readers. It doesn't matter how things work - if things are wrong, they should be corrected.

1285:

Now, if we search Google for "Chairman of the Knesset" while excluding the words "Committee", "Caucus", "Lobby" and "Faction", although it will exclude cases in which the Chairman of the Knesset had something to do with any of them, we will still get

3077:(a) The colours are controversial - that's why they are being debated. You cannot assign historical party colours based on modern parties. The Labour Party was originally a merger of three parties, and more have merged into it since. It's a clear 4353:

I do think it is allowable to group parties into rough categories like "generally left", "generally center", "generally right" and "religious". While you might get occasional arguments right along the boundaries, that sort of thing is closer to

1272:

Well, while my search methodology included other Chairmen of the Knesset along with the actual "Chairman of the Knesset", you're search methodology has two fundamental flaws, which divert the search results in favor of "Speaker" when combined:

2621:

Number 57, you pretty much summarized everything what I said so far on this issue. I'd like to add that my opinion is, obviously, shared by many users here (many of whom are on WP much longer than myself), which can be seen just by looking at

5101:

That's exactly how I understood our agreement: Ensuring that number box and party box are colored, without any further changes to the four lists in question, without any removal of data, etc. We should do that in the way its already done at

2940:

glad to see other users agree with me. I think Option 2 should be implemented here as soon as possible, and that your preferred version should be reverted on other lists of Israeli officeholders. I'll do that myself, if other users agree. --

2898:

Thanks, NinjaRobotPirate! As it can be seen from all above discussion, I truly believe Option 2 should be implemented, and I don't think Options 3 and 4 are in any way better than my preferred version. I totally agree with you that Option 1

1042:

Hi guys. Not that I think that the lemma is important, but the Knesset website has under the heading "Basic Law: The Knesset - 1958": "Chairman and Vice-Chairmen. The Knesset shall elect from among its members a Chairman and Vice-Chairmen."

352: 3407:

No, it is not irrelevant, ideology is a central point of a party's character. If we know history and ideological background of a party, we can use logic and mark it with colour which is appropriate to its position in political spectrum.

4615:

If we are going to use colours, then they should be the proper colours of the party, not made up ones. Shinui is a light/pale blue (from what I recall of its electoral material in the early 2000s) and Kadima is definitely darkish blue.

4504:

I intended that only as an example. They broke away from Mapai, and were eventually reabsorbed into Labor. You want to call them "centrist"? Fine. In any event, Rafi doesn't appear on any of these four lists (President, PM, Opposition,

4847:

Absolutely! Except for the final color scheme part. Steven, I'd really like to see you and Number 57 agreeing on this. As I said, I'm not really bothered about that, so I wouldn't like to be one of the decision-makers on that issue.

3352:

could provide a citation that presents the parties as a unified front that later merged into a single party. That could be used as an explanatory footnote and citation that justifies that use of a single color for multiple parties.

3027:

The colors do seem a bit controversial for the early leaders. Like you say, the table would have to be fixed to be policy compliant, but isn't that understood to always be the case? If I need to be more explicit, then I agree with

5422:, and (c) that there should be as little of it as possible. I'm not sure all of that was obvious at the beginning. But if I had been quicker at figuring that out, this might not have taken so long, either. My apologies to you both. 3740:

camp. My wife and one of my sons would find a text-only table to be very, very difficult to use, and would get much more meaning out of a colorful table. So why not allow for both, even if you have to scroll around a little more?

2160:

is a huge improvement because the list is much clearer, easier to read etc. Colours and pictures are distractions that make lists more difficult to read, and thus less informative. I've given a long list of other reasons above.

1946:

in, and they should stay in. All that is meant to provide more information than just a plain simple list, and to make a list graphically better. We must find some compromise, you can't expect that I'll just back down on this. --

1377:

is aimed at people whose English is not as fluent. There I would use something around "Chair" because it would make sense to people whose first language is not English and who are used to different terminology in this setting.

4480: 2438:

That is completely subjective to the person reading - it is mere decoration that is not required as it adds no factual value to the list. Anyway, it's clear this is going nowhere, so I will start an RfC to get some more input.

5251:- left-most column (number box) and party box are colored. Legend should stay, in my opinion. I'll just wait for Number 57 to tell his opinion what color to use instead of pale yellow for party box of Kadima officeholders. -- 4464:

The long-standing Arab parties are all nominally leftist. They've also been totally excluded from ruling coalitions. This newly announced centrist Arab party could change all that. But let's cross that bridge when we come to

1728:

It doesn't include unnecessary information like when the office holder was born or died, except in cases when they died in office, which is relevant. The Hebrew names are also totally unnecessary, as you have been advised on

3513:

Gosh, you guys are just talking past each other! Let me suggest, since you have solicited opinions at WikiProject Israel, that you both sit tight and let others respond without jumping in to answer each and every response.

2020:

And, I just don't want to get to my computer one day and see that lists of Presidents and Prime Ministers of Israel are remodeled after list at Ministry of Agriculture, I think I'd need to be rushed to the ER if I see that.

2064:

But as advised, the current version is not what has been agreed for lists of Israeli politicians (see above) - I just hadn't got round to converting it yet. To start with, I think we need to compare all possible options at

4706:

57, I just don't agree that readers would automatically assume that the color a party is marked is necessary official. But frankly, I don't care much. If you guys are willing to agree on a color scheme, I won't argue.

4424:

If you are willing to follow this recommendation, then just say so below. We'll call this discussion closed, and I'll leave it to you to execute it. I'll then share my thoughts on the rest of the cabinet ministries.

5265:

I apologise for missing that, but it was a very long discussion and the idea was never discussed - only suggested once by Steven. I would rather have a legend than a second coloured column if we have to have either.

4389:

In order to be sensitive to Number 57's concern about spacing, I would take out placeholders for pictures unless you are going to replace them with pictures pretty imminently. If there's not a picture, there's not a

711: 3531:

Colors. To be honest, 57, I doubt that in the other lists shown here, list makers have gone out of their way to research historical party colors. (I'm sure they haven't if you want to be accurate to RGB values or

4375:(b) By assigning the lead party in the category (including its evolutions) the base color, and other parties shades/variations on that color. Thus Mapai and Labor get the base color; Mapam and Rafi get variants. 4079:

Let's decide on the first three first. After that, we can have a separate discussion. For my information, I assume that lists concerning other ministries always include the Prime Minister served under, right?

496: 3528:

Knesset speaker, I could actually go either way on pictures. But for Prime Minister or President, I would absolutely, positively want them. And I see no reason not to include them here if they are available.

2183:

those elements. They make lists graphically better and information richer, they are not at all a distraction. Difficult to read? Yeah, right... Less informative? Your format makes articles less informative. --

3730:

Again, I'll say that the colors are only original research if you think they represent some official representation of something. Otherwise, they're not research at all, just a graphic representation. It's

1369:, is Speaker. And with all due respect—I have a son in the Israel Air Force—this Knowledge (XXG) does not have to change standard usages because Hebrew-speaking Israelis would choose a different term. At 1416:". If I really got hooked on the matter, I would forward a hypothesis such as: "Chairman" is the older, more traditional, and "Speaker" is the younger, or more modern term, and would start checking the 2811:

Just one thought: you both have very strong opinions about which format works best, and I don't think you're going to convince one another to change that position. :) That being said, I believe the

4724:

The three shades are fairly different - Shinui is pale, Kadima is royal and Likud is somewhere in the middle. You can see the difference in the colours of the party logos on their respective pages.

3150:

No, it can not be a reason because WP:OR does not provide for colours, pictures and other graphics to be excluded from the lists. If that's the case, those elements would be removed from all other,

362: 3422:

If you think a party's colour can be determined by its place in the political spectrum, then there is little point continuing the discussion - it's impossible to reason with this kind of attitude.

3251:

If you can the party verify colours, then I'd be perfectly happy. However, as pointed out numerous times, you cannot assume colours based on similar ideologies – not all socialist parties use red.

899:

If you also amend your generic Google search to adjust for the ambiguous results (i.e. using "Knesset Chairman" rather than "Chairman of the Knesset"), then the results are quite different, i.e.

4095:

and Speakers) to look like lists on articles about ministries. Again - lists of ministers can go either way, keep Presidents and PMs in their current form and implement Option 2 for Speakers. --

1635:

Possibly because they weren't spotted - both lists are (frankly) awful, particularly the Prime Minister one. A recent discussion between myself and another user agreed that the format used in

1456:

I just started to read what I referred to above ("The Parliamentary System of Israel" by Samuel Sager) and guess what I found? It's on page XI and goes like this: "Though popularly, as in the

3386:

What a party's ideology is, or what it merged into is completely irrelevant. What we need is a verifiable record of what a party's colours were. If we don't have one, then we can't use one.

1487:

Though there's been extensive discussion here, I see only four editors involved, essentially split on the issue. Another week of listing may be helpful before calling this as no consensus. --

598:– The name in Hebrew is "Yoshev-Rosh Ha'Knesset", meaning "Chairman of the Knesset", or "Yoshevet-Rosh Ha'Knesset", meaning "Chairwoman of the Knesset", hence "List of Knesset Chairpersons". 5294:

I think there ought to be at least a legend; most of these lists with more than two parties have a legend, at minimum. (I happen to like the ones at the Chancellors of Germany list, myself.)

3002:

you reinstate any versions using colours, I will remove the colours that are not verified to be those of the parties in question. You may also want to re-read Knowledge (XXG) policies like

2424:

You need something more in a list than just a plain text. Graphics has important place in table formatting. They are intended to make lists visually better and more appealing to readers. --

3169:

Yes, it can be a reason, and the colours should be removed from those other lists if you've inserted them against policy. It's probably just that no-one'e realised those lists are full of

278: 1984:

so why include them? What does a reader get from having a red colour in a row with a Labor politician? And the pictures - this is a list - what purpose does a picture serve in a list?

3443:

Yes, I think so. Party history, ideology and place in the political spectrum can determine its colour. Especially if there is some wider political movement with similar ideology (its

263: 1669: 1636: 3868:. That explanation is perfectly acceptable to me. I'd also repeat that party colors can certainly be determined by a party's ideology, history and place in political spectrum. -- 3866:

The colors are only original research if you think they represent some official representation of something. Otherwise, they're not research at all, just a graphic representation

1175:, to be honest. All the same, the common terminology in English has been "Speaker" for years. It's not ambiguous, nor is it confusing. I see no reason to bother changing it. 4650:

Guys, please, don't argue too much over this. I'm really ready to accept any solution for colors of Kadima and Shinui. They can stay as they are now, as far as I'm concerned. --

464: 3924:

You are misleading readers into thinking those parties were represented by those colours. And if you really think you can define colour by ideology, then I suggest you look at

1848:

My another wish is to be as much collaborative contributor as I can, so I'll ask you - what I must remove from my version of the table in order to make it acceptable to you? --

5044:

Labor (including Mapai, Achdut Haavodah, Alignment, etc.—all of those look legitimately tied to Labor, unless Number 57 wants to put, say, Achdut Haavodah in a different red)

379: 224: 3882:

So, can you give me the sources for those colours? And if you really believe the last part, then I do not think you should be editing political articles on Knowledge (XXG).

2958:

is one of Knowledge (XXG)'s core policies. You will not be reinstating any colours to any articles unless you have verifiable evidence to show they were the party colours.

1834:

to 'standardise' articles in a far worse form than good practice so far implemented, in so much other articles. Franky, I don't see how I may agree to your table format. --

3173:

that no-one's bothered to challenge it. You cannot ignore core policies. Some other users agree with you, but at least one has also agreed that the colours are a problem.

4601:

Only question left on this is: What color for Kadima and Shinui. I deem Kadima to be centrist, so I wouldn't make it any variety of blue. Do you guys disagree with that?

4130:

I'd advise you to look what Steven said on that. Heads of state, heads of government and heads of legislature certainly aren't the same as heads of various ministries. --

3862:

lists of Presidents, Prime Ministers and Knesset speakers tells a relatively straightforward story, and that can be far more tricky when it comes to individual ministries

2580:

There is a disagreement (see above) over how best to format this list. The current version is not approved of by either party, but there are two competing alternatives -

2197:

It is not "unfounded in reality" - I am clearly real. Please stop denigrating others' opinions, and use some proper arguments. What is "graphically better" is an opinion.

1639:

was the best way forward (as the colours were felt to be a distraction), so I have slowly been implementing that on Israeli office holder lists, but hadn't got here yet.

5064:

Sundostund, if you are going around fixing these, drop a note on the other three talk pages saying the formatting was changed based on the discussion on this talk page.

1794:

purpose of those elements is to put some additional information to lists. More information is always better than lesser. Again, your version looks graphically awful. --

371: 5514: 1073:

Probably - English was an official language until 1948. As you point out, the legislation referring to "Chairman" dates back to the 1950s and 1960s, whilst the modern

707: 141: 5376:

I have modified the close accordingly. We have not discussed removing any other content from the Prime Minister list, and I don't know why one would think to do that.

1198:", in German it's a "Sprecher", which has a totally different meaning. But I agree that it is not important enough to move the page if there is no consensus. Cheers, 293: 2709:

issue). Without any doubt, he has any right to his opinion but I strongly disagree on it. I hope other users will recognize the right way to move forward. Cheers! --

1621:, and nobody is complaining about it. Especially not about Hebrew name and birth/death year of the officeholder. All of this is meant to provide more information. -- 4950:

OK. As you see, I closed it. Sundostund, just make sure you get the right color for Kadima on this one ... or Number 57, go ahead and make the color what you want.

1380:

Honestly, though, Virant: If you feel really passionately about this change, I won't lose sleep if you change this (as long as there is a redirect from "Speaker").

5041:

I think that's the agreement. Granting that Dr. Weizmann stays gray (which is customary in these lists for "no party"), I think only the following parties appear:

4990:

I'm happy with this. As you said, there are so many minor parties that have had ministerial posts, it's unlikely we would be able to find colours for all of them.

3705:

But thank you for actually bothering to respond to my concerns about original research rather than just stating that you think ones looks better than the other.

2815:

conveys more relevant information in a more interesting fashion. It's also more with the style that's been adopted with success in many other articles (such as

434: 4524:

for missing pictures, too. As for Rafi, you're right, Steven - Rafi doesn't appear on any of the four lists in question (President, PM, Opposition, Speaker). --

2641: 954:

Did you not read what I wrote above? "Chairman" is not most common on Google and Ynetnews - most of the hits were actually for Chairmen of Knesset committees.

5067:

Question for you guys: Do we need an actual color key/legend on these pages if the party box is also colored? I'm ok either way on that question; just asking.

4386:

If we get complaints that the colors interfere with legibility, whether from a colorblind reader or anyone else, we change the colors. Legibility comes first.

5509: 2636: 449: 4297:

anyone, except perhaps the colorblind. I think having pictures is a net positive as well, as long as we are in a position where most pictures are avilable.

3368:

historical facts are well known - Mapai, Alignment and some other parties merged and founded the Labor Party. All of them are ideologically part of a wider

3126: 218: 940:

was the Chairwoman of the Knesset, so I chose Chairpersons over Chairmen, and that has nothing to do with statistics, and everything to do with english.

413: 396: 5145:

Well, we decided the cell for "party" should also be colored. And that certainly provides the key. But yes, the other cell coloring will be eliminated.

2626:

articles which contain lists of officeholders. I'd be here non-stop until tomorrow if I try to mention all such examples, so I'll list only few of them:

2346:

As for lists of Presidents and Prime Ministers, I can't even imagine them looking like the list at Ministry of Agriculture, that would just be awful. --

151: 4328:, which is not OR. In principle one would need sources at least at the ready; in practice I don't know that anyone would care enough to challenge them. 285: 5287:

Look, I jumped into this as a moderator. I don't really care much, except that I'm frustrated that this appeared in the close and you didn't notice.

5087:

list—a column appearing on none of the other lists—should get color, too. But I don't feel strongly about that. Just thought I'd put it out there.

2979:

Again: Original research can't be reason to completely cut off colours, pictures and graphics from lists. Next, consensus of users and majority is

650:- we don't blindly translate the name of positions, otherwise we'd have "Head of Government of Israel" rather than "Prime Minister of Israel". The 5124:, and the other cell colouring will be removed from the other three lists. I also don't see the need for a key, as the table is self-explanatory. 3562:

gone—at great loss to the lists, in my view. And I'm pretty sure you would not have Knowledge (XXG)-wide consensus to do that, as far as it goes.

2816: 2631: 2307:

Re the Prime Minister and President lists, they would eventually be converted to the agreed format, but perhaps we can agree some compromise here.

2840:

Could you advise what extra relevant information it conveys? (or to pre-empt a possible answer, why birth and death dates are relevant?) Thanks,

979:. Anyway, I noticed a major flaw in your searching methodology, but that will have to wait till the very end of my day. See (or read) you later. 3212:

Yes they are - if you are claiming a party used a particular colour, that is a verifiable fact. If you can't verify it, it's original research.

3993:

No, I'm not. Things can work like that, but not in all cases. Definitely not in cases of all Israeli parties, formed since 1948 to this day. --

2696: 5343:

Great! So, only left-most column (number box) will be colored, all other cells will be without colors, legend will stay on all four lists and

3802: 388: 5121: 2585: 2581: 2249: 2209: 2157: 2066: 703: 1980:

on one screen - the entire list. If the pictures were added, I could see 6 or 7. This is a massive step backwards in terms of accessibility.

1711:

The main reason the rows are smaller is because they don't have photos - these aren't necessary, and we don't have them for everyone anyway.

733:

will show 3,260,000 results for "Chairman of the Knesset" and 1,380,000 for "Speaker of the Knesset". So, yes, Chairman is the common name.

5519: 4292:). I would add that the more research I have done on this the less totally obvious it has appeared to me. Many, if not most, such lists on 2691: 993:

I assume you are referring to when I accidentally used your flawed methodology on the Ynet search and came up with more hits for Chairman?

5411:): I appreciate that the discussion was long. But we could have avoided this last bit if you had been more careful in reading the close. 3524:

I guess an earlier version of these included dates of birth and death. Except in cases of "died in office", these dates are not relevant.

302: 117: 3864:. So, the solution for lists of ministers can go either way, as far as I'm concerned... I'd also totally agree with Steven when he says: 3747:

At the level of President, PM and Speaker, the high-level story is a relatively straightforward one, and the colors should reflect same:

1059:

etc. it would be President, not Chairperson, nor Speaker. Therefore: Why "Speaker" for Israel? Because it was a British mandate? Cheers,

975:

Oh, but I did. I just didn't realize you keep changing your response, and I referred to one or more of your previous versions, probably

4109:

Why are you differentiating between them? Why is a Knesset Speaker equivalent to the Prime Minister of President but a Minister isn't?

933:

and is more common in smaller newspapers/news websites. We'll just have to wait and see which option is preferred by other wikipedians.

5248: 5103: 4665:

Similarly, using red to mark the left-wing Meretz would be jarring considering the party's colours are widely recognised to be green.

3794: 1719: 1714:

Colour coding for political parties is not a good idea - both because some people are colour blind, but also because some colours are

5159:

I actually missed that (about the party cell being coloured). Do we really need to do this? It wasn't part of the proposed Option 2.

4219:

With that, Shabbat Shalom, and a good weekend to all. Why don't we plan on reconvening here (or better, at the RfC), next Wednesday?

443: 3233:

No they are not. It can easily be verified - if parties like Mapai, Alignment and the Labor Party are ideologically part of a wider

2686: 2681: 2651: 1618: 5469:

present at the moment at those four lists is intact, and I expect it to remain so. With that, I'd say that our job is done here. --

1830:

As for my wishes, I always wish (as well as all other well-minded editors) to make articles better, not worse. I can't understand '

1216:

has been 'Speaker' for years." I don't for a moment assume that the term is used in other languages. But I see no need to change

755:

The Knesset website may refer to the Speaker as the chairman in one or two instances, but the common name is clearly the Speaker (

5392: 4798: 4289: 3929: 3925: 3572:

If you can find historical sources for party colors early in Israel's history and want to use them, you should certainly do that.

2701: 2676: 2666: 2656: 5408: 5277: 5170: 5135: 5001: 4901: 4814: 4735: 4676: 4627: 4550: 4494: 4347: 4313: 4120: 4066: 3983: 3943: 3893: 3820: 3716: 3433: 3397: 3308: 3262: 3223: 3184: 3140: 3095: 3017: 2969: 2929: 2851: 2771: 2735: 2610: 2550: 2450: 2414: 2378: 2321: 2263: 2223: 2172: 2131: 2080: 1995: 1934: 1874: 1820: 1783: 1746: 1650: 1602: 1446: 1136: 1088: 1004: 965: 922: 681: 429: 4560:

Clearly, these need to be brought in line with each other. I'd prefer more cells, rather than fewer, to be colored, as on the

456: 210: 108: 69: 44: 4015:

Sundostund, concerning "colors by ideology ," I think you are really over the line on that. I do not agree with that at all.

3763:

Governments of National Unity, where that fact should be noted, but where single or rotating leadership is itself significant

2671: 1056: 3953:

I'm not misleading anyone, Number 57. I said my opinion, and that's how things usually work on other lists here. I repeat -

3908:

believe the last part of my statement, and you'll certainly not tell me what I should or shouldn't do on Knowledge (XXG). --

1725:

It includes the dates for the term start and end, rather than just the year. This is actually useful for such lists, unlike;

1715: 272: 2575:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2460:

Your opinion which says: "Lists don't need any graphics and party colours, those elements are totally useless in lists" is

1461: 1401: 4941:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2304:

Green. Gesher I have no idea (they are now defunct). I don't see the point of the coat of arms for people with no pictures

1405: 1397: 422: 5300:

Once you guys have decided on this, I'm going to unfollow this, and move on to other things, with your kind permission.

3750:

Coalitions of the left, whose leadership has been Mapai, which evolved into Labor (which fact, at a very high level, is

3451:. I said my opinion, you said yours. Can we now let this RfC thread to go ahead, and allow other users to vote on it? -- 2646: 1614: 1565:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

568:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

2661: 670:

for "Knesset chairman", but the ratio remains at around 43:1 in terms of the use of speaker to chairman/chairperson).

348: 4745:

I'll accept any solution on which you two can agree. I just don't want any of us to waste too much energy on this. --

4206:

I want to leave the RfC open until next Wednesday, which is one week after you solicited input at WikiProject Israel.

1290:. So, though it's not an accurate count, it still shows that the term "Chairman of the Knesset" is definitely common. 255: 4966:

Let Number 57 provide historical party colors, where possible, for every single party that ever received a ministry

3806: 3798: 3447:

in this case). I must say, Number 57, this is your first statement in the past two weeks with which I agree 100% -

3358: 3037: 2885: 1052: 312: 4372:(a) Giving all parties in the category the same color. Thus, Mapai, Mapam, Rafi and Labor all take the same color. 595: 4455:. But "fool's errand" doesn't have to be a practical joke; it can simply mean an impossible, unachievable task. 4052: 591: 2588:. There are also a couple of hybrid versions on that page. There is no manual of style for this type of list. 2389:

and other graphical elements are intended to make the information both interesting and helpful for readers. --

405: 50: 32: 5345:

every data present at the moment at those four lists will remain (especially at the list of Prime Ministers)

340: 247: 3372:

political movement, so I see no reason to don't mark them with the same or similar party colour. Cheers! --

1885:

If you thinks names in Hebrew are unnecessary, its easy to remove them, but not everything else I added. --

1366: 1172: 1122: 647: 4022:

If you start pushing this too hard, I might have to change my mind about the whole enterprise of colors.

2403:

Please define interesting and helpful. I cannot see how they are either. In a list, all you need is text.

1413: 4599:

Coloring only in the "number" and "party" boxes. Coloring removed from all other boxes on all four lists.

3003: 2205:) and pictures (because they are missing) for some of the people in the list, so it becomes inconsistent. 3354: 3052: 3033: 2881: 2091:

officeholders and I truly can't see how that 'agreement' could be implemented. Its just unacceptable. --

481: 116:

on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

2983:

one of Knowledge (XXG)'s core policies, I'm sure you know that. Majority rules on Knowledge (XXG), and

2596:

or which party dominated the alliance. Same applies to the parties of the same or similar ideologies.

1960:

OK. The two things I think are possibilities for negotiation (not that I actually agree to them) are:

5474: 5445: 5386: 5367: 5352: 5320: 5256: 5201: 5111: 5032: 5017: 4917: 4890:

As long as the application of colours is limited to the four articles in question, then that's fine.

4881: 4853: 4792: 4750: 4655: 4588: 4529: 4283: 4186: 4166:

OK, cool it, guys. Let's sit tight for a while and see what (if anything) happens over at the RfC.

4135: 4100: 4042: 3998: 3962: 3913: 3873: 3671: 3635:

Sundostund, I really asked for both of you to stay out of the discussion and let other people talk.

3622: 3605: 3456: 3413: 3377: 3331: 3282: 3242: 3203: 3160: 3115: 3068: 2992: 2945: 2908: 2866: 2787: 2751: 2714: 2469: 2429: 2394: 2351: 2337: 2294: 2279: 2239: 2188: 2147: 2110: 2096: 2026: 2011: 1951: 1890: 1853: 1839: 1799: 1762: 1682: 1626: 233: 5459: 5430: 5402: 5334: 5305: 5272: 5237: 5186: 5165: 5150: 5130: 5092: 5074: 4996: 4980: 4896: 4867: 4838: 4808: 4730: 4715: 4671: 4641: 4622: 4606: 4573: 4545: 4514: 4489: 4430: 4307: 4244: 4226: 4171: 4115: 4085: 4061: 4051:

If you're only bothered about Prime Ministers and Presidents, then why are you fighting so hard on

4027: 3978: 3938: 3888: 3815: 3784: 3711: 3687: 3649: 3589: 3428: 3392: 3303: 3257: 3218: 3179: 3135: 3090: 3012: 2964: 2924: 2846: 2766: 2730: 2605: 2544: 2445: 2409: 2373: 2316: 2258: 2248:

This isn't very constructive, is it... As you aren't willing to, I've created some alternatives at

2218: 2167: 2126: 2075: 1990: 1929: 1869: 1815: 1778: 1741: 1645: 1597: 1441: 1385: 1232: 1180: 1131: 1083: 999: 960: 917: 676: 5247:

OK then. Coloring the party box certainly was in the agreed close, and we'll do it as its done in

5196:

change pale yellow, which color can we use instead to color party box for Kadima officeholders? --

1587:

The introduction of unncessary information (Hebrew name and birth/death year of the officeholder).

3318:

Its not important what you claim, its important what you're trying to do - you want to eliminate

1509: 715: 4325: 4261: 3345: 1708:

The rows are only one text row deep, meaning you can see larger parts of the list on one screen.

490: 5061:

Number 57 should provide an appropriate RGB code for all the blue ones (Likud, Shinui, Kadima).

4975:

step back from this and let you guys work it out, consistent with what we decided in this RfC.

4782:

Placeholders for absent pictures are to be removed, unless replacing with a picture is imminent

4342:

Trying to figure out just exactly where in the political spectrum one should put each party is

2536:

Placeholders for absent pictures are to be removed, unless replacing with a picture is imminent

1576:

As noted in the edit summary, I have reverted the recent changes to the format of the list per

1194:

outside the former British Empire, to put it bluntly. A "speaker" translated into French is a "

907:. And anyway, you have requested to move it to "Knesset chairperson", for which there are only 1074: 1048: 651: 328: 4862:

I don't care. Number 57 obviously cares a lot. So it's all his. You both ok with this now?

4355: 3751: 3549: 3277:, and that argument is awful as well as your preferred, ugly, oversimplified table format. -- 2464:

subjective to the person reading. Countless lists on WP says other users thinks otherwise. --

473: 17: 4953:

I'm not a whiz on tables. One of you has to bring the other three into line with this one.

1329: 1044: 984: 945: 738: 722: 617: 344: 3757:

Coalitions of the right, whose leadership has been (Herut, which evolved into) Likud (same)

1674: 1577: 5470: 5441: 5382: 5363: 5348: 5316: 5252: 5197: 5107: 5028: 5013: 4913: 4877: 4849: 4788: 4746: 4651: 4584: 4525: 4279: 4182: 4131: 4096: 4038: 3994: 3958: 3909: 3869: 3667: 3641:

The editorializing will get in the way of the rest of us having a productive discussion.

3618: 3601: 3452: 3409: 3373: 3349: 3327: 3278: 3238: 3199: 3156: 3111: 3064: 3056: 2988: 2941: 2904: 2862: 2783: 2747: 2710: 2465: 2425: 2390: 2347: 2333: 2290: 2275: 2235: 2184: 2143: 2106: 2092: 2022: 2007: 1965:

Including colours in the numbering column where party colours are known (so not violating

1947: 1886: 1849: 1835: 1795: 1758: 1678: 1622: 1541: 1469: 1425: 1203: 1108: 1100: 1064: 516: 324: 308: 5419: 4321: 3545: 3348:. There doesn't really seem to be any end in sight for the debate here. Alternatively, 3323: 3294: 3274: 3195: 3170: 3106: 3078: 2955: 2202: 1966: 1362: 1118: 726: 643: 2120:

second assertion has no basis in fact. Could we please stick to discussing the content?

5455: 5426: 5398: 5330: 5301: 5267: 5233: 5182: 5160: 5146: 5125: 5088: 5070: 4991: 4976: 4891: 4863: 4834: 4804: 4725: 4711: 4666: 4637: 4617: 4602: 4569: 4540: 4539:(not just the left-hand one) needs removing from the other three articles in question. 4510: 4484: 4426: 4303: 4272:

it. Still, I think you'll be better off accepting this than going to formal mediation.

4240: 4222: 4167: 4110: 4081: 4056: 4023: 3973: 3933: 3883: 3810: 3780: 3706: 3645: 3585: 3423: 3387: 3298: 3252: 3213: 3174: 3130: 3085: 3060: 3029: 3007: 2959: 2919: 2841: 2761: 2725: 2600: 2540: 2440: 2404: 2368: 2311: 2253: 2213: 2162: 2121: 2070: 1985: 1924: 1864: 1810: 1773: 1736: 1640: 1592: 1436: 1381: 1249: 1228: 1214:

used in English-language media to refer to the regular presiding officer of the Knesset

1176: 1126: 1078: 994: 955: 912: 671: 197: 1404:, Kluwer Law International, 2007 has "The Speaker of the Knesset and His Deputies" on 5503: 3444: 3369: 3234: 3194:

No, it can not be the reason because colours and graphics in general are not against

1505: 1492: 608: 582: 336: 332: 100: 4826:

President, Prime Minister, Speaker of the Knesset, Leader of the Opposition (Israel)

2562:

President, Prime Minister, Speaker of the Knesset, Leader of the Opposition (Israel)

2158:

Talk:List of Knesset speakers/Sandbox#Agreed format for lists of Israeli politicians

4483:). I can't see how assigning the party to a red colour can be done with integrity. 3063:) voted for Option 1. If I count correctly, it seems a consensus is pretty near. -- 2599:

Any outside input would be welcome, as it's clear there's an impasse here. Thanks,

1533:

is just fine as a translation, and avoids importing an awkward non-sexist measure.

320: 5478: 5463: 5449: 5434: 5371: 5356: 5338: 5324: 5309: 5282: 5260: 5241: 5205: 5190: 5175: 5154: 5140: 5115: 5096: 5078: 5036: 5021: 5006: 4984: 4959:

Based on the way this RfC closed, I only see two ways to handle other ministries:

4921: 4906: 4885: 4871: 4857: 4842: 4754: 4740: 4719: 4681: 4659: 4645: 4610: 4592: 4577: 4555: 4533: 4518: 4499: 4434: 4369:

Assign colors based on those categories. You can do that by any of the following:

4230: 4190: 4175: 4139: 4125: 4104: 4089: 4071: 4046: 4031: 4002: 3988: 3966: 3948: 3917: 3898: 3877: 3844:

Keeping the lists of Israeli Presidents and Prime Ministers in their current form;

3825: 3788: 3721: 3675: 3666:

You're right, Steven. I'm sorry. I'll definitely listen to your advice. Cheers. --

3653: 3626: 3609: 3593: 3460: 3438: 3417: 3402: 3381: 3362: 3335: 3313: 3286: 3267: 3246: 3228: 3207: 3189: 3164: 3145: 3119: 3100: 3072: 3041: 3022: 2996: 2974: 2949: 2934: 2912: 2889: 2870: 2856: 2835: 2791: 2776: 2755: 2740: 2718: 2615: 2473: 2455: 2433: 2419: 2398: 2383: 2355: 2341: 2326: 2298: 2283: 2268: 2243: 2228: 2192: 2177: 2151: 2136: 2114: 2100: 2085: 2058: 2030: 2015: 2000: 1955: 1939: 1894: 1879: 1857: 1843: 1825: 1803: 1788: 1766: 1751: 1686: 1655: 1630: 1607: 1546: 1513: 1496: 1473: 1451: 1429: 1389: 1333: 1236: 1212:

Ajnem, let me please rephrase my previous statement: "... the common terminology

1207: 1184: 1141: 1112: 1093: 1068: 1009: 988: 970: 949: 927: 742: 686: 621: 586: 2310:

What information does the party colour and the picture actually add to the list?

4195:

My last response on this topic today, as I will need to start getting ready for

2829: 2105:

After all, users can make 'agreements' only how to make WP better, not worse. --

2052: 1325: 980: 941: 937: 734: 613: 353:

Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran

4452: 4264:. That said, this is an RfC, not a more formal process. Therefore, I can only 3322:

colours, pictures and graphics from lists because some of them may be against

3237:

political movement, they should be marked with the same or similar colours. --

1534: 1465: 1421: 1199: 1104: 1060: 524: 316: 90: 3793:

Preceisely, I look forward to finding out from Sundostund what party colours

2533:

Number box only is colored. All other background coloring removed from tables

4378:(c) By assigning every party in the category a different shade of the color. 3772:

story, you only really need three colors (or -ish variants of three colors).

3006:

if you believe that majority rules - that is not how Knowledge (XXG) works.

702:

1. Other chairmen/chairpersons of Parliaments are referred to as such, e.g.

520: 84: 63: 3297:- I only pointed out that some of them are, and those ones cannot be used. 2861:

Thanks, J. Obviously, I agree with both of your statements. :) Cheers! --

2212:

that includes party colours where known, and we'll see what it looks like.

1252:, regarding the message which started with "I assume you are referring...": 243: 239: 5413:

Please don't forget to give the Sundostund the color information he needs.

5297:

57, do please provide Sundostund with the RGB's for the different parties.

4260:

I'm technically not an "uninvolved editor" according to the definition in

4564:

list. However, I'm willing to settle for the number and party boxes only.

1488: 1121:(as the Knesset's English version almost exclusively uses "Speaker") and 604: 578: 5291:

agreed to close to rely on, and I think you'll have to live with it, 57.

3727:

You're welcome. And thanks for not cluttering up the RfC page. (* * *)

2363:

On what basis should the coat of arms replace pictures that don't exist?

718:), so that's not a "blind translation" but a known alternative in usage. 4759:

Fine. I am now prepared to close with the following modified proposal:

4196: 4076:

I did see that. I'm just encouraging you not to make this too complex.

3533: 1703:

A few reasons why the list on the Agriculture Ministry page is better:

655: 654:

refers to the position as "Speaker", and as an example for COMMONNAME,

5083:

I have to admit: one part of me thinks that the Knesset column of the

3344:

Perhaps it would be best to raise the issue of the specific colors in

3520:

But let me explain my reasoning with respect to each of your issues:

3048: 2821: 2592:

names), and is more difficult to navigate due to its expanded size.

2044: 721:

2. The Knesset website also refers to the position as Chairman, e.g.

356: 113: 4381:

I favor (b), but if you want to do one of the others you're welcome.

3776:

do that in color, but not if it is more confusing than enlightening.

1352:

Here's a situation where I think I would handle this differently in

712:

Chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress

562:

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.

5120:

As I understood, only the left-most column will be coloured as per

4421:

let's settle this RfC first; then I'll share my ideas on the rest.

497:

Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People

3617:

Israeli Presidents and PMs should remain in their current form. --

1559:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.

4214:

the other ministries, but let's just wait until this RfC is done.

1668:

I truly can't understand how can you say that the format used in

1077:

almost exclusively uses the term Speaker in its English version.

2987:

what majority of users think is the best thing to do. Cheers. --

4366:

Categorize all parties according to the rough categories above.

1171:

I don't know that this would be such an egregious violation of

26: 4320:

The one I don't buy is that using "official party colors" is

1125:(as shown by the table of usage in the Israeli media above). 4583:

be seen, my Option 2 doesn't color all cells in the list. --

2252:

including known party colours and pictures where available.

1373:

on the other hand, I would prefer a different usage because

1117:

I'm fairly sure that the current title is in line with both

5232:

Go ahead and work with Number 57 directly on color codes.

4409:

in the discussion. This morning Sundostund asked me about

2901:

looks way too much like a color-blind engineer designed it

1400:. On the other hand "The Constitutional Law of Israel" by 1195: 4316:) has some important points that need to be considered: 3643:

We all know your opinion already, as well as Number57's.

1677:, I'll post it here for other users to decide about it: 363:

Articles needing translation from Hebrew Knowledge (XXG)

3809:

used if he gets his way, as all of them had ministers.

3552:. But in Israel's case, add a reference if you'd like. 2954:

Colours cannot be used if they are original research –

1673:

of Knesset speakers which is reverted according to the

976: 186: 181: 176: 171: 4397:

This discussion has technically focused on the office

4278:

The consensus seems to be in favor of the approach of

1670:

Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development (Israel)

1637:

Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development (Israel)

1504:

per common name in English and arguments cited above.

666:

for "Knesset chairperson" (there were also a further

1580:. My main issues with the change in formatting are: 279:

Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005

112:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 4912:

other lists, according to our agreement. Cheers! --

3847:

Implementing Option 2 for list of Knesset speakers.

3580:57, I don't know why this bothers you so much, but 2208:Perhaps you could create an alternative version of 1613:Everything I added to this list is already part of 1464:calls it "Speaker", and she ought to know. Cheers, 2156:Going backwards is an opinion. To me, the list at 2539:Final color scheme for parties to be provided by 1591:Please explain why these are necessary. Thanks, 1525:has always struck me as English at its ugliest. 708:Chairperson of the National Assembly of Bulgaria 5454:Thanks for your kind words. See you around ... 4451:That goes to a dab page suggesting you look at 3449:There is little point continuing the discussion 2360:It's not appropriate if it's original research. 465:Knowledge (XXG) requested photographs in Israel 4824:will be changed in line with this agreement: 2560:will be changed in line with this agreement: 2642:List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom 2201:out, we cannot use party colours (because of 8: 4181:looks like a consensus to me, doesn't it? -- 3544:"Conservative". The party evolution is not 2637:List of Vice Presidents of the United States 1718:. Who knows what colour to use to represent 1099:imo has nothing to do with it: It's called " 450:Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries 30: 4963:Remove all color, even where it exists now 4779:Party box as well as number box is colored 3760:One coalition of the center, led by Kadima 3293:I did not claim "all of them" are against 3105:The colours are not controversial at all. 2516:RfC: What is the best format for this list 626: 380:Israel articles missing geocoordinate data 264:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration 225:Unknown-importance Israel-related articles 205:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 159: 58: 5329:I'm just the moderator. But OK: I agree. 4876:Yes, its fine as far as I'm concerned. -- 4766: 4413:and I'm inclined to include that, too. 4362:Given the above, I recommend as follows: 5047:Likud (including Likud Yisrael Beiteinu) 780: 435:Knowledge (XXG) requested maps in Israel 5515:High-importance Israel-related articles 4710:should probably take highest priority. 4444: 3326:. That is completely wrong approach. -- 2632:List of Presidents of the United States 60: 3584:is a better presentation of the lists. 3548:, and probably can even be considered 3081:violation, nothing less, nothing more. 2697:List of Prime Ministers of New Zealand 1584:The introduction of an unnecessary key 4785:Final color scheme for parties to be 3127:WP:Knowledge (XXG) is not a democracy 2250:Talk:List of Knesset speakers/Sandbox 2067:Talk:List of Knesset speakers/Sandbox 1972:Including the picture where available 1248:(continuation of the discussion with 727:Basic Law: The President of the State 704:Chairman of the Parliament of Albania 7: 3860:I'd strongly agree with Steven that 2692:List of Prime Ministers of Australia 2571:The following discussion is closed. 106:This article is within the scope of 5510:Start-Class Israel-related articles 5425:I am hereby unfollowing the page. 5379:May I share three closing thoughts: 4209:Unless things change from present, 294:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel 49:It is of interest to the following 5249:List of heads of state of Mongolia 5104:List of heads of state of Mongolia 4971:from the rest of the ministries. 3795:Sephardim and Oriental Communities 3694:Moved at 19:09, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 1720:Sephardim and Oriental Communities 219:Unassessed Israel-related articles 126:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Israel 25: 4326:"Compiling facts and information" 3803:Gesher – Zionist Religious Centre 2687:List of Prime Ministers of Canada 2682:List of Prime Ministers of Poland 2652:List of Prime Ministers of France 1619:List of Prime Ministers of Israel 1529:is preferable, but unclear here. 414:Israel articles needing attention 397:Israel articles needing infoboxes 5181:way. I'm sorry you missed that. 4937:The discussion above is closed. 3930:Democratic Party (United States) 3926:Republican Party (United States) 3059:) voted for Option 2; one user ( 2702:List of Prime Ministers of Japan 2677:List of heads of state of Poland 2667:List of Prime Ministers of Italy 2657:List of Prime Ministers of Spain 714:(other examples can be found in 240:Cleanup listing for this project 196: 93: 83: 62: 31: 4632:20:11, 17 July::::::2013 (UTC) 3568:I would suggest the following: 1371:Simple English Knowledge (XXG), 1358:Simple English Knowledge (XXG). 936:Though looks can be deceiving, 573:The result of the proposal was 430:Module:Location map/data/Israel 146:This article has been rated as 2672:List of Chancellors of Germany 1057:Federal Assembly (Switzerland) 377:Add geographic coordinates to 291:Participate in discussions at 1: 1923:the whole point of the list. 723:Basic Law: The Knesset - 1958 120:and see a list of open tasks. 18:Talk:List of Knesset speakers 4956:As for other ministries ... 2647:List of Presidents of France 1615:List of Presidents of Israel 911:hits on the whole interweb. 611:) 16:13, 25 April 2013 (UTC) 596:List of Knesset Chairpersons 462:Add pictures to articles in 5520:WikiProject Israel articles 2662:List of Presidents of Italy 349:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu 129:Template:WikiProject Israel 5536: 4597:OK. I think we're up to: 1547:10:41, 26 April 2013 (UTC) 1514:22:36, 25 April 2013 (UTC) 1497:16:13, 25 April 2013 (UTC) 1474:08:39, 12 April 2013 (UTC) 1452:08:13, 12 April 2013 (UTC) 1430:08:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC) 1390:00:14, 12 April 2013 (UTC) 1334:22:33, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1237:15:44, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1208:15:26, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1185:14:27, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1142:12:21, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1113:11:09, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1094:09:27, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1069:09:08, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 1053:President of the Bundestag 1010:08:17, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 989:07:59, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 971:19:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 950:18:43, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 928:13:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 743:12:50, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 687:08:24, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 662:for "Knesset speaker" and 622:04:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 432:. Add maps to articles in 313:Diamond industry in Israel 152:project's importance scale 5479:19:17, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5464:18:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5450:16:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5435:15:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5372:15:33, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5357:15:13, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5339:15:09, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5325:14:55, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5310:14:44, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5283:14:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5261:14:03, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5242:13:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5206:13:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5191:13:03, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5176:13:00, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5155:12:56, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5141:12:52, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5116:12:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5097:12:20, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5079:12:15, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5037:11:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5022:11:07, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 5007:10:07, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 4985:02:26, 18 July 2013 (UTC) 4922:22:55, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4907:21:21, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4886:20:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4872:20:48, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4858:20:46, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4843:20:41, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4820:The following four lists 4755:20:40, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4741:20:35, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4720:20:31, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4682:20:22, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4660:20:18, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4646:20:14, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4611:20:09, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4593:20:03, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4578:19:58, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4556:19:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4534:19:42, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4519:19:33, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4500:19:18, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4435:18:53, 17 July 2013 (UTC) 4411:Leader of the Opposition, 4268:the following close, not 4231:18:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4191:17:54, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4176:17:30, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4140:17:18, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4126:17:16, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4105:17:09, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4090:17:02, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4072:17:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4047:16:48, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4032:16:43, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 4003:17:58, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3989:17:16, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3967:17:13, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3949:17:00, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3918:16:39, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3899:16:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3878:13:44, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3826:10:41, 12 July 2013 (UTC) 3789:22:26, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 3744:colors help or hurt that. 3722:21:36, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 3686:Continuation, moved from 3676:21:43, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 3654:20:55, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 3627:20:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 3610:20:24, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 3594:19:49, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 2871:21:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2857:21:17, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2836:21:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2792:19:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2777:18:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2756:18:17, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2741:16:57, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2719:16:20, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2616:16:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2556:The following four lists 2474:13:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2456:13:49, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2434:13:43, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2420:13:36, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2399:13:32, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2384:13:25, 25 June 2013 (UTC) 2356:14:21, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2342:14:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2327:14:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2299:13:43, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2284:13:40, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2269:12:56, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2244:12:27, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2229:12:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2193:12:00, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2178:11:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2152:11:09, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2137:11:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2115:11:01, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2101:10:59, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2086:10:33, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2059:10:31, 24 June 2013 (UTC) 2031:22:42, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 2016:22:36, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 2001:22:26, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1956:22:16, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1940:22:08, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1895:21:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1880:21:41, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1858:20:59, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1844:20:46, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1826:20:37, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1804:20:35, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1789:20:28, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1767:20:24, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1752:20:09, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1687:16:24, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1656:16:18, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1631:16:13, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 1608:16:09, 23 June 2013 (UTC) 158: 145: 78: 57: 4939:Please do not modify it. 4239:end of moved discussion 4053:List of Knesset speakers 3461:14:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3439:14:48, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3418:14:44, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3403:14:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3382:14:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3363:14:06, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3336:15:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3314:14:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3287:13:13, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3268:12:38, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3247:12:36, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3229:12:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3208:12:26, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3190:12:18, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3165:12:14, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3146:12:05, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3120:11:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3101:11:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3073:10:51, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3042:00:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC) 3023:20:51, 6 July 2013 (UTC) 2997:20:35, 6 July 2013 (UTC) 2975:19:51, 6 July 2013 (UTC) 2950:19:41, 6 July 2013 (UTC) 2935:19:28, 6 July 2013 (UTC) 2913:18:48, 6 July 2013 (UTC) 2890:16:59, 6 July 2013 (UTC) 2573:Please do not modify it. 1562:Please do not modify it. 592:List of Knesset speakers 565:Please do not modify it. 372:Geographical coordinates 4399:Speaker of the Knesset. 3779:Anyway, my two cents. 1354:English Knowledge (XXG) 765:Chairman of the Knesset 587:23:18, 2 May 2013 (UTC) 341:Public Defence (Israel) 242:is available. See also 132:Israel-related articles 4346:OR. At worst, it's a 39:This article is rated 4787:agreed separately by 4775:modified as follows: 4416:However, I recommend 4324:. I take it as being 2530:modified as follows: 696:There's no violation: 163:Project Israel To Do: 43:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 1716:WP:Original research 840:Israel National News 631:Discussion condensed 248:the tool's wiki page 244:the list by category 4771:Consensus supports 4350:. Just don't do it. 3688:User talk:StevenJ81 2526:Consensus supports 790:"Knesset chairman" 642:Clear violation of 512:Translate to Hebrew 4768:New close proposal 2574: 2522:RESOLVED (UPDATED) 787:"Knesset speaker" 716:Speaker (politics) 428:See discussion at 109:WikiProject Israel 45:content assessment 4401:We have included 4276:General findings. 4248: 3807:New Liberal Party 3799:Progressive Party 3695: 2572: 1554: 1553: 1485:Relisting comment 1049:French Parliament 886: 885: 612: 552: 551: 548: 547: 544: 543: 540: 539: 536: 535: 394:Add infoboxes to 357:Pre-Modern Aliyah 329:Sephardic Haredim 16:(Redirected from 5527: 5347:. Is that OK? -- 5280: 5275: 5270: 5173: 5168: 5163: 5138: 5133: 5128: 5004: 4999: 4994: 4904: 4899: 4894: 4738: 4733: 4728: 4679: 4674: 4669: 4630: 4625: 4620: 4553: 4548: 4543: 4497: 4492: 4487: 4466: 4462: 4456: 4449: 4238: 4123: 4118: 4113: 4069: 4064: 4059: 3986: 3981: 3976: 3957:, not always. -- 3946: 3941: 3936: 3896: 3891: 3886: 3823: 3818: 3813: 3719: 3714: 3709: 3693: 3436: 3431: 3426: 3400: 3395: 3390: 3355:NinjaRobotPirate 3311: 3306: 3301: 3265: 3260: 3255: 3226: 3221: 3216: 3187: 3182: 3177: 3143: 3138: 3133: 3098: 3093: 3088: 3053:NinjaRobotPirate 3034:NinjaRobotPirate 3020: 3015: 3010: 2972: 2967: 2962: 2932: 2927: 2922: 2882:NinjaRobotPirate 2854: 2849: 2844: 2834: 2832: 2824: 2774: 2769: 2764: 2738: 2733: 2728: 2613: 2608: 2603: 2453: 2448: 2443: 2417: 2412: 2407: 2381: 2376: 2371: 2324: 2319: 2314: 2266: 2261: 2256: 2226: 2221: 2216: 2175: 2170: 2165: 2134: 2129: 2124: 2083: 2078: 2073: 2057: 2055: 2047: 1998: 1993: 1988: 1937: 1932: 1927: 1877: 1872: 1867: 1823: 1818: 1813: 1786: 1781: 1776: 1749: 1744: 1739: 1653: 1648: 1643: 1605: 1600: 1595: 1564: 1544: 1539: 1449: 1444: 1439: 1139: 1134: 1129: 1091: 1086: 1081: 1007: 1002: 997: 968: 963: 958: 925: 920: 915: 781: 684: 679: 674: 627: 599: 567: 345:Prisoner of Zion 286:Deletion sorting 200: 193: 192: 160: 134: 133: 130: 127: 124: 103: 98: 97: 96: 87: 80: 79: 74: 66: 59: 42: 36: 35: 27: 21: 5535: 5534: 5530: 5529: 5528: 5526: 5525: 5524: 5500: 5499: 5278: 5273: 5268: 5171: 5166: 5161: 5136: 5131: 5126: 5002: 4997: 4992: 4948: 4943: 4942: 4902: 4897: 4892: 4830: 4769: 4736: 4731: 4726: 4677: 4672: 4667: 4628: 4623: 4618: 4551: 4546: 4541: 4495: 4490: 4485: 4475: 4470: 4469: 4463: 4459: 4450: 4446: 4442: 4255: 4121: 4116: 4111: 4067: 4062: 4057: 3984: 3979: 3974: 3944: 3939: 3934: 3894: 3889: 3884: 3821: 3816: 3811: 3717: 3712: 3707: 3691: 3638:Please do that. 3434: 3429: 3424: 3398: 3393: 3388: 3350:User:Sundostund 3309: 3304: 3299: 3263: 3258: 3253: 3224: 3219: 3214: 3185: 3180: 3175: 3141: 3136: 3131: 3096: 3091: 3086: 3018: 3013: 3008: 2970: 2965: 2960: 2930: 2925: 2920: 2852: 2847: 2842: 2830: 2822: 2820: 2808: 2784:User:Sundostund 2772: 2767: 2762: 2748:User:Sundostund 2736: 2731: 2726: 2711:User:Sundostund 2611: 2606: 2601: 2577: 2568: 2567: 2566: 2523: 2518: 2466:User:Sundostund 2451: 2446: 2441: 2426:User:Sundostund 2415: 2410: 2405: 2391:User:Sundostund 2379: 2374: 2369: 2348:User:Sundostund 2334:User:Sundostund 2322: 2317: 2312: 2291:User:Sundostund 2276:User:Sundostund 2264: 2259: 2254: 2236:User:Sundostund 2224: 2219: 2214: 2185:User:Sundostund 2173: 2168: 2163: 2144:User:Sundostund 2132: 2127: 2122: 2107:User:Sundostund 2093:User:Sundostund 2081: 2076: 2071: 2053: 2045: 2043: 2023:User:Sundostund 2008:User:Sundostund 1996: 1991: 1986: 1948:User:Sundostund 1935: 1930: 1925: 1887:User:Sundostund 1875: 1870: 1865: 1850:User:Sundostund 1836:User:Sundostund 1821: 1816: 1811: 1796:User:Sundostund 1784: 1779: 1774: 1759:User:Sundostund 1747: 1742: 1737: 1679:User:Sundostund 1651: 1646: 1641: 1623:User:Sundostund 1603: 1598: 1593: 1574: 1572:List formatting 1569: 1560: 1555: 1542: 1535: 1447: 1442: 1437: 1288:393,000 results 1137: 1132: 1127: 1101:Americanization 1089: 1084: 1079: 1075:Knesset website 1055:, Switzerland: 1005: 1000: 995: 966: 961: 956: 923: 918: 913: 855:Times of Israel 682: 677: 672: 652:Knesset website 632: 563: 557: 532: 517:David Bar-Hayim 325:Rami Kleinstein 309:Ayala Procaccia 261:Participate in 191: 148:High-importance 131: 128: 125: 122: 121: 99: 94: 92: 73:High‑importance 72: 40: 23: 22: 15: 12: 11: 5: 5533: 5531: 5523: 5522: 5517: 5512: 5502: 5501: 5498: 5497: 5496: 5495: 5494: 5493: 5492: 5491: 5490: 5489: 5488: 5487: 5486: 5485: 5484: 5483: 5482: 5481: 5423: 5415: 5396: 5380: 5377: 5359: 5298: 5295: 5292: 5288: 5263: 5231: 5225: 5224: 5223: 5222: 5221: 5220: 5219: 5218: 5217: 5216: 5215: 5214: 5213: 5212: 5211: 5210: 5209: 5208: 5118: 5085:Prime Minister 5068: 5065: 5062: 5059: 5058: 5057: 5054: 5051: 5048: 5045: 5024: 4968: 4967: 4964: 4947: 4944: 4936: 4935: 4934: 4933: 4932: 4931: 4930: 4929: 4928: 4927: 4926: 4925: 4924: 4829: 4828: 4818: 4783: 4780: 4767: 4765: 4764: 4763: 4762: 4761: 4760: 4708: 4705: 4704: 4703: 4702: 4701: 4700: 4699: 4698: 4697: 4696: 4695: 4694: 4693: 4692: 4691: 4690: 4689: 4688: 4687: 4686: 4685: 4684: 4565: 4562:Prime Minister 4506: 4474: 4471: 4468: 4467: 4457: 4443: 4441: 4438: 4407:Prime Minister 4392: 4391: 4387: 4384: 4383: 4382: 4379: 4376: 4373: 4367: 4360: 4359: 4351: 4336: 4335: 4330: 4329: 4254: 4253:Proposed close 4251: 4250: 4236: 4235: 4234: 4233: 4220: 4217: 4216: 4215: 4207: 4204: 4165: 4164: 4163: 4162: 4161: 4160: 4159: 4158: 4157: 4156: 4155: 4154: 4153: 4152: 4151: 4150: 4149: 4148: 4147: 4146: 4145: 4144: 4143: 4142: 4077: 4020: 4016: 4013: 4012: 4011: 4010: 4009: 4008: 4007: 4006: 4005: 3853: 3852: 3851: 3850: 3849: 3848: 3845: 3837: 3836: 3835: 3834: 3833: 3832: 3777: 3773: 3766: 3765: 3764: 3761: 3758: 3755: 3745: 3741: 3737: 3728: 3696: 3690: 3684: 3683: 3682: 3681: 3680: 3679: 3678: 3659: 3658: 3657: 3656: 3630: 3629: 3613: 3612: 3578: 3577: 3573: 3566: 3565: 3564: 3563: 3556: 3555: 3554: 3553: 3541: 3529: 3525: 3512: 3511: 3510: 3509: 3508: 3507: 3506: 3505: 3504: 3503: 3502: 3501: 3500: 3499: 3498: 3497: 3496: 3495: 3494: 3493: 3492: 3491: 3490: 3489: 3488: 3487: 3486: 3485: 3484: 3483: 3482: 3481: 3480: 3479: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3475: 3474: 3473: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3466: 3465: 3464: 3463: 3342: 3341: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3082: 3061:User:Number 57 3030:User:Number 57 2893: 2892: 2875: 2874: 2873: 2859: 2807: 2804: 2803: 2802: 2801: 2800: 2799: 2798: 2797: 2796: 2795: 2794: 2705: 2704: 2699: 2694: 2689: 2684: 2679: 2674: 2669: 2664: 2659: 2654: 2649: 2644: 2639: 2634: 2628: 2627: 2578: 2569: 2565: 2564: 2554: 2537: 2534: 2525: 2524: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2517: 2514: 2513: 2512: 2511: 2510: 2509: 2508: 2507: 2506: 2505: 2504: 2503: 2502: 2501: 2500: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2496: 2495: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2491: 2490: 2489: 2488: 2487: 2486: 2485: 2484: 2483: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2477: 2476: 2364: 2361: 2344: 2308: 2305: 2286: 2206: 2198: 2040: 2039: 2038: 2037: 2036: 2035: 2034: 2033: 1981: 1977: 1976: 1975: 1974: 1973: 1970: 1920: 1919: 1918: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1914: 1913: 1912: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1908: 1907: 1906: 1905: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1900: 1899: 1898: 1897: 1734: 1733: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1726: 1723: 1712: 1709: 1694: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1661: 1660: 1659: 1658: 1589: 1588: 1585: 1573: 1570: 1568: 1567: 1552: 1551: 1550: 1549: 1516: 1499: 1481: 1480: 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1458:Jerusalem Post 1418:Jerusalem Post 1410:Jerusalem Post 1351: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1347: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1336: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1303: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1294: 1293: 1292: 1291: 1283: 1282: 1281: 1278: 1250:user:Number_57 1246: 1244: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1240: 1239: 1188: 1187: 1165: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1161: 1160: 1159: 1158: 1157: 1156: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1152: 1151: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1018: 1017: 1016: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1012: 934: 892: 891: 890: 889: 888: 887: 884: 883: 878: 873: 867: 866: 861: 856: 852: 851: 846: 841: 837: 836: 831: 826: 822: 821: 816: 811: 810:Jerusalem Post 807: 806: 801: 796: 792: 791: 788: 785: 773: 772: 771: 770: 769: 768: 748: 747: 746: 745: 730: 719: 699: 698: 690: 689: 634: 633: 630: 625: 571: 570: 558: 556: 555:Requested move 553: 550: 549: 546: 545: 542: 541: 538: 537: 534: 533: 531: 530: 529: 528: 507: 499: 486: 469: 452: 439: 418: 401: 384: 367: 359: 298: 281: 268: 251: 229: 204: 202: 201: 190: 189: 184: 179: 174: 168: 165: 164: 156: 155: 144: 138: 137: 135: 118:the discussion 105: 104: 88: 76: 75: 67: 55: 54: 48: 37: 24: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 5532: 5521: 5518: 5516: 5513: 5511: 5508: 5507: 5505: 5480: 5476: 5472: 5467: 5466: 5465: 5461: 5457: 5453: 5452: 5451: 5447: 5443: 5438: 5437: 5436: 5432: 5428: 5424: 5421: 5416: 5414: 5410: 5407: 5404: 5400: 5397: 5394: 5391: 5388: 5384: 5381: 5378: 5375: 5374: 5373: 5369: 5365: 5360: 5358: 5354: 5350: 5346: 5342: 5341: 5340: 5336: 5332: 5328: 5327: 5326: 5322: 5318: 5313: 5312: 5311: 5307: 5303: 5299: 5296: 5293: 5289: 5286: 5285: 5284: 5281: 5276: 5271: 5264: 5262: 5258: 5254: 5250: 5246: 5245: 5244: 5243: 5239: 5235: 5229: 5207: 5203: 5199: 5194: 5193: 5192: 5188: 5184: 5179: 5178: 5177: 5174: 5169: 5164: 5158: 5157: 5156: 5152: 5148: 5144: 5143: 5142: 5139: 5134: 5129: 5123: 5119: 5117: 5113: 5109: 5105: 5100: 5099: 5098: 5094: 5090: 5086: 5082: 5081: 5080: 5076: 5072: 5069: 5066: 5063: 5060: 5055: 5052: 5049: 5046: 5043: 5042: 5040: 5039: 5038: 5034: 5030: 5025: 5023: 5019: 5015: 5010: 5009: 5008: 5005: 5000: 4995: 4989: 4988: 4987: 4986: 4982: 4978: 4972: 4965: 4962: 4961: 4960: 4957: 4954: 4951: 4946:RfC follow-up 4945: 4940: 4923: 4919: 4915: 4910: 4909: 4908: 4905: 4900: 4895: 4889: 4888: 4887: 4883: 4879: 4875: 4874: 4873: 4869: 4865: 4861: 4860: 4859: 4855: 4851: 4846: 4845: 4844: 4840: 4836: 4832: 4831: 4827: 4823: 4819: 4816: 4813: 4810: 4806: 4802: 4800: 4797: 4794: 4790: 4784: 4781: 4778: 4777: 4776: 4774: 4758: 4757: 4756: 4752: 4748: 4744: 4743: 4742: 4739: 4734: 4729: 4723: 4722: 4721: 4717: 4713: 4683: 4680: 4675: 4670: 4663: 4662: 4661: 4657: 4653: 4649: 4648: 4647: 4643: 4639: 4634: 4633: 4631: 4626: 4621: 4614: 4613: 4612: 4608: 4604: 4600: 4596: 4595: 4594: 4590: 4586: 4581: 4580: 4579: 4575: 4571: 4566: 4563: 4559: 4558: 4557: 4554: 4549: 4544: 4537: 4536: 4535: 4531: 4527: 4522: 4521: 4520: 4516: 4512: 4507: 4503: 4502: 4501: 4498: 4493: 4488: 4482: 4477: 4476: 4472: 4461: 4458: 4454: 4448: 4445: 4439: 4437: 4436: 4432: 4428: 4422: 4419: 4414: 4412: 4408: 4404: 4400: 4396: 4388: 4385: 4380: 4377: 4374: 4371: 4370: 4368: 4365: 4364: 4363: 4357: 4352: 4349: 4348:fool's errand 4345: 4341: 4340: 4339: 4332: 4331: 4327: 4323: 4319: 4318: 4317: 4315: 4312: 4309: 4305: 4302: 4298: 4295: 4291: 4288: 4285: 4281: 4277: 4273: 4271: 4267: 4263: 4259: 4258:Introduction. 4252: 4249: 4246: 4242: 4232: 4228: 4224: 4221: 4218: 4212: 4208: 4205: 4201: 4200: 4198: 4194: 4193: 4192: 4188: 4184: 4179: 4178: 4177: 4173: 4169: 4141: 4137: 4133: 4129: 4128: 4127: 4124: 4119: 4114: 4108: 4107: 4106: 4102: 4098: 4093: 4092: 4091: 4087: 4083: 4078: 4075: 4074: 4073: 4070: 4065: 4060: 4054: 4050: 4049: 4048: 4044: 4040: 4035: 4034: 4033: 4029: 4025: 4021: 4017: 4014: 4004: 4000: 3996: 3992: 3991: 3990: 3987: 3982: 3977: 3970: 3969: 3968: 3964: 3960: 3956: 3952: 3951: 3950: 3947: 3942: 3937: 3932:for a start. 3931: 3927: 3923: 3922: 3921: 3920: 3919: 3915: 3911: 3907: 3902: 3901: 3900: 3897: 3892: 3887: 3881: 3880: 3879: 3875: 3871: 3867: 3863: 3859: 3858: 3857: 3856: 3855: 3854: 3846: 3843: 3842: 3841: 3840: 3839: 3838: 3829: 3828: 3827: 3824: 3819: 3814: 3808: 3804: 3800: 3796: 3792: 3791: 3790: 3786: 3782: 3778: 3774: 3771: 3767: 3762: 3759: 3756: 3753: 3749: 3748: 3746: 3742: 3738: 3734: 3729: 3726: 3725: 3724: 3723: 3720: 3715: 3710: 3703: 3699: 3689: 3685: 3677: 3673: 3669: 3665: 3664: 3663: 3662: 3661: 3660: 3655: 3651: 3647: 3644: 3640: 3639: 3634: 3633: 3632: 3631: 3628: 3624: 3620: 3615: 3614: 3611: 3607: 3603: 3598: 3597: 3596: 3595: 3591: 3587: 3583: 3574: 3571: 3570: 3569: 3560: 3559: 3558: 3557: 3551: 3547: 3542: 3538: 3537: 3535: 3530: 3526: 3523: 3522: 3521: 3519: 3462: 3458: 3454: 3450: 3446: 3445:Labor Zionism 3442: 3441: 3440: 3437: 3432: 3427: 3421: 3420: 3419: 3415: 3411: 3406: 3405: 3404: 3401: 3396: 3391: 3385: 3384: 3383: 3379: 3375: 3371: 3370:Labor Zionism 3366: 3365: 3364: 3360: 3356: 3351: 3347: 3343: 3337: 3333: 3329: 3325: 3321: 3317: 3316: 3315: 3312: 3307: 3302: 3296: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3289: 3288: 3284: 3280: 3276: 3271: 3270: 3269: 3266: 3261: 3256: 3250: 3249: 3248: 3244: 3240: 3236: 3235:Labor Zionism 3232: 3231: 3230: 3227: 3222: 3217: 3211: 3210: 3209: 3205: 3201: 3197: 3193: 3192: 3191: 3188: 3183: 3178: 3172: 3168: 3167: 3166: 3162: 3158: 3153: 3149: 3148: 3147: 3144: 3139: 3134: 3128: 3123: 3122: 3121: 3117: 3113: 3108: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3099: 3094: 3089: 3083: 3080: 3076: 3075: 3074: 3070: 3066: 3062: 3058: 3054: 3050: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3039: 3035: 3031: 3026: 3025: 3024: 3021: 3016: 3011: 3005: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2994: 2990: 2986: 2982: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2973: 2968: 2963: 2957: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2947: 2943: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2933: 2928: 2923: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2910: 2906: 2902: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2891: 2887: 2883: 2879: 2876: 2872: 2868: 2864: 2860: 2858: 2855: 2850: 2845: 2839: 2838: 2837: 2833: 2828: 2827: 2818: 2814: 2813:second option 2810: 2809: 2805: 2793: 2789: 2785: 2780: 2779: 2778: 2775: 2770: 2765: 2759: 2758: 2757: 2753: 2749: 2744: 2743: 2742: 2739: 2734: 2729: 2722: 2721: 2720: 2716: 2712: 2707: 2706: 2703: 2700: 2698: 2695: 2693: 2690: 2688: 2685: 2683: 2680: 2678: 2675: 2673: 2670: 2668: 2665: 2663: 2660: 2658: 2655: 2653: 2650: 2648: 2645: 2643: 2640: 2638: 2635: 2633: 2630: 2629: 2625: 2620: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2614: 2609: 2604: 2597: 2593: 2589: 2587: 2583: 2576: 2563: 2559: 2555: 2552: 2549: 2546: 2542: 2538: 2535: 2532: 2531: 2529: 2515: 2475: 2471: 2467: 2463: 2459: 2458: 2457: 2454: 2449: 2444: 2437: 2436: 2435: 2431: 2427: 2423: 2422: 2421: 2418: 2413: 2408: 2402: 2401: 2400: 2396: 2392: 2387: 2386: 2385: 2382: 2377: 2372: 2365: 2362: 2359: 2358: 2357: 2353: 2349: 2345: 2343: 2339: 2335: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2325: 2320: 2315: 2309: 2306: 2302: 2301: 2300: 2296: 2292: 2287: 2285: 2281: 2277: 2272: 2271: 2270: 2267: 2262: 2257: 2251: 2247: 2246: 2245: 2241: 2237: 2232: 2231: 2230: 2227: 2222: 2217: 2211: 2207: 2204: 2199: 2196: 2195: 2194: 2190: 2186: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2176: 2171: 2166: 2159: 2155: 2154: 2153: 2149: 2145: 2140: 2139: 2138: 2135: 2130: 2125: 2118: 2117: 2116: 2112: 2108: 2104: 2103: 2102: 2098: 2094: 2089: 2088: 2087: 2084: 2079: 2074: 2068: 2063: 2062: 2061: 2060: 2056: 2051: 2050: 2032: 2028: 2024: 2019: 2018: 2017: 2013: 2009: 2004: 2003: 2002: 1999: 1994: 1989: 1982: 1978: 1971: 1968: 1964: 1963: 1962: 1961: 1959: 1958: 1957: 1953: 1949: 1944: 1943: 1942: 1941: 1938: 1933: 1928: 1896: 1892: 1888: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1878: 1873: 1868: 1861: 1860: 1859: 1855: 1851: 1847: 1846: 1845: 1841: 1837: 1833: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1824: 1819: 1814: 1807: 1806: 1805: 1801: 1797: 1792: 1791: 1790: 1787: 1782: 1777: 1770: 1769: 1768: 1764: 1760: 1755: 1754: 1753: 1750: 1745: 1740: 1735: 1727: 1724: 1721: 1717: 1713: 1710: 1707: 1706: 1705: 1704: 1702: 1701: 1700: 1699: 1698: 1697: 1696: 1695: 1688: 1684: 1680: 1676: 1671: 1667: 1666: 1665: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1657: 1654: 1649: 1644: 1638: 1634: 1633: 1632: 1628: 1624: 1620: 1616: 1612: 1611: 1610: 1609: 1606: 1601: 1596: 1586: 1583: 1582: 1581: 1579: 1571: 1566: 1563: 1557: 1556: 1548: 1545: 1540: 1538: 1532: 1528: 1524: 1520: 1517: 1515: 1511: 1507: 1503: 1500: 1498: 1494: 1490: 1486: 1483: 1482: 1475: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1459: 1455: 1454: 1453: 1450: 1445: 1440: 1433: 1432: 1431: 1427: 1423: 1419: 1415: 1411: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1387: 1383: 1376: 1372: 1368: 1367:WP:COMMONNAME 1364: 1359: 1355: 1335: 1331: 1327: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1307: 1289: 1284: 1279: 1275: 1274: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1268: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1263: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1256: 1255: 1253: 1251: 1238: 1234: 1230: 1227: 1223: 1219: 1215: 1211: 1210: 1209: 1205: 1201: 1197: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1186: 1182: 1178: 1174: 1173:WP:COMMONNAME 1170: 1167: 1166: 1143: 1140: 1135: 1130: 1124: 1123:WP:COMMONNAME 1120: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1110: 1106: 1102: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1092: 1087: 1082: 1076: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1066: 1062: 1058: 1054: 1050: 1045: 1041: 1040: 1039: 1038: 1037: 1036: 1035: 1034: 1033: 1032: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1011: 1008: 1003: 998: 992: 991: 990: 986: 982: 978: 974: 973: 972: 969: 964: 959: 953: 952: 951: 947: 943: 939: 935: 931: 930: 929: 926: 921: 916: 910: 906: 902: 898: 897: 896: 895: 894: 893: 882: 879: 877: 874: 872: 869: 868: 865: 862: 860: 857: 854: 853: 850: 847: 845: 842: 839: 838: 835: 832: 830: 827: 824: 823: 820: 817: 815: 812: 809: 808: 805: 802: 800: 797: 794: 793: 789: 786: 784:Media source 783: 782: 779: 778: 777: 776: 775: 774: 766: 762: 758: 754: 753: 752: 751: 750: 749: 744: 740: 736: 731: 728: 724: 720: 717: 713: 709: 705: 701: 700: 697: 694: 693: 692: 691: 688: 685: 680: 675: 669: 665: 661: 657: 653: 649: 648:WP:COMMONNAME 645: 641: 638: 637: 636: 635: 629: 628: 624: 623: 619: 615: 610: 606: 602: 597: 593: 589: 588: 584: 580: 576: 569: 566: 560: 559: 554: 526: 522: 518: 515: 513: 509: 508: 506: 504: 500: 498: 495: 493: 492: 487: 484: 483: 478: 476: 475: 470: 467: 466: 461: 459: 458: 453: 451: 448: 446: 445: 440: 437: 436: 431: 427: 425: 424: 419: 416: 415: 410: 408: 407: 402: 399: 398: 393: 391: 390: 385: 382: 381: 376: 374: 373: 368: 365: 364: 358: 354: 350: 346: 342: 338: 337:Nachum Heiman 334: 333:Zman Tel Aviv 330: 326: 322: 318: 314: 310: 307: 305: 304: 299: 296: 295: 290: 288: 287: 282: 280: 277: 275: 274: 269: 266: 265: 260: 258: 257: 252: 249: 245: 241: 238: 236: 235: 230: 227: 226: 221: 220: 215: 213: 212: 207: 206: 203: 199: 195: 194: 188: 185: 183: 180: 178: 175: 173: 170: 169: 167: 166: 162: 161: 157: 153: 149: 143: 140: 139: 136: 119: 115: 111: 110: 102: 101:Israel portal 91: 89: 86: 82: 81: 77: 71: 68: 65: 61: 56: 52: 46: 38: 34: 29: 28: 19: 5412: 5405: 5389: 5344: 5230: 5226: 5084: 4973: 4969: 4958: 4955: 4952: 4949: 4938: 4833:Is this ok? 4825: 4821: 4811: 4803:provided by 4795: 4786: 4772: 4770: 4598: 4561: 4460: 4447: 4423: 4417: 4415: 4410: 4406: 4402: 4398: 4394: 4393: 4361: 4343: 4338:However ... 4337: 4310: 4300: 4299: 4293: 4286: 4275: 4274: 4269: 4265: 4257: 4256: 4237: 4210: 3954: 3905: 3865: 3861: 3769: 3732: 3704: 3700: 3692: 3642: 3637: 3636: 3581: 3579: 3567: 3517: 3515: 3448: 3319: 3273:are against 3151: 3004:WP:DEMOCRACY 2984: 2980: 2903:. Cheers! -- 2900: 2877: 2825: 2812: 2623: 2598: 2594: 2590: 2579: 2570: 2561: 2557: 2547: 2527: 2461: 2048: 2041: 1921: 1831: 1590: 1575: 1561: 1558: 1536: 1530: 1526: 1522: 1518: 1501: 1484: 1457: 1417: 1409: 1379: 1374: 1370: 1357: 1353: 1247: 1245: 1225: 1222:this purpose 1221: 1217: 1213: 1196:porte-parole 1168: 880: 875: 870: 695: 639: 600: 590: 574: 572: 564: 561: 511: 510: 502: 501: 489: 488: 482:Israel stubs 480: 472: 471: 463: 455: 454: 442: 441: 433: 421: 420: 412: 404: 403: 395: 387: 386: 378: 370: 369: 361: 321:Levin Kipnis 301: 300: 292: 284: 283: 271: 270: 262: 254: 253: 232: 231: 223: 217: 209: 208: 147: 107: 51:WikiProjects 4301:Guidelines. 4203:everything. 1832:your wishes 1523:Chairperson 1103:". Cheers, 1051:, Germany: 938:Dalia Itzik 256:Collaborate 41:Start-class 5504:Categories 5471:Sundostund 5442:Sundostund 5383:Sundostund 5364:Sundostund 5349:Sundostund 5317:Sundostund 5253:Sundostund 5198:Sundostund 5108:Sundostund 5029:Sundostund 5014:Sundostund 4914:Sundostund 4878:Sundostund 4850:Sundostund 4789:Sundostund 4747:Sundostund 4652:Sundostund 4585:Sundostund 4526:Sundostund 4509:not more. 4453:snipe hunt 4280:Sundostund 4183:Sundostund 4132:Sundostund 4097:Sundostund 4039:Sundostund 3995:Sundostund 3959:Sundostund 3910:Sundostund 3906:definitely 3870:Sundostund 3733:convenient 3668:Sundostund 3619:Sundostund 3602:Sundostund 3516:I support 3453:Sundostund 3410:Sundostund 3374:Sundostund 3328:Sundostund 3279:Sundostund 3239:Sundostund 3200:Sundostund 3157:Sundostund 3112:Sundostund 3065:Sundostund 2989:Sundostund 2981:definitely 2942:Sundostund 2905:Sundostund 2863:Sundostund 2462:definitely 1462:Suzi Navot 1402:Suzi Navot 1277:deficient. 1226:this time. 1218:this usage 660:2,850 hits 525:Guy Oseary 317:Edna Arbel 5456:StevenJ81 5427:StevenJ81 5399:Number 57 5331:StevenJ81 5302:StevenJ81 5234:StevenJ81 5183:StevenJ81 5147:StevenJ81 5089:StevenJ81 5071:StevenJ81 4977:StevenJ81 4864:StevenJ81 4835:StevenJ81 4805:Number 57 4773:Option 2, 4712:StevenJ81 4638:StevenJ81 4603:StevenJ81 4570:StevenJ81 4511:StevenJ81 4505:Speaker). 4427:StevenJ81 4403:President 4304:Number 57 4241:StevenJ81 4223:StevenJ81 4168:StevenJ81 4082:StevenJ81 4024:StevenJ81 3781:StevenJ81 3646:StevenJ81 3586:StevenJ81 3518:Option 2. 3152:countless 2985:I will do 2624:countless 2541:Number 57 2528:Option 2, 1382:StevenJ81 1229:StevenJ81 1177:StevenJ81 575:not moved 521:Guy Bavli 360:See also 216:Rate the 5409:contribs 5393:contribs 5122:option 2 4815:contribs 4799:contribs 4481:see here 4473:Response 4390:picture. 4314:contribs 4290:contribs 4262:WP:CLOSE 4211:Option 2 3805:and the 3768:To tell 3736:"right". 3582:Option 2 3534:Pantones 3346:WP:NOR/N 2878:Option 2 2586:Option 2 2582:Option 1 2551:contribs 1506:SnowFire 1435:policy. 1406:page 120 1398:page 102 977:this one 795:Ynetnews 757:303 uses 601:Relisted 406:Maintain 273:Copyedit 4568:green. 4356:WP:BLUE 4344:at best 4270:enforce 4266:propose 4197:Shabbat 3955:usually 3752:WP:BLUE 3550:WP:BLUE 1543:(talk) 1531:Speaker 1414:Speaker 1356:and in 1169:Oppose. 901:124,000 825:Haaretz 668:65 hits 664:one hit 656:Haaretz 389:Infobox 234:Cleanup 177:history 150:on the 5269:Number 5162:Number 5127:Number 5056:Kadima 5053:Shinui 5050:Meretz 4993:Number 4893:Number 4727:Number 4668:Number 4619:Number 4542:Number 4486:Number 4395:Scope. 4294:enwiki 4199:soon. 4112:Number 4058:Number 3975:Number 3935:Number 3885:Number 3831:known: 3812:Number 3797:, the 3754:, IMO) 3708:Number 3425:Number 3389:Number 3300:Number 3254:Number 3215:Number 3176:Number 3132:Number 3087:Number 3057:myself 3009:Number 2961:Number 2921:Number 2843:Number 2831:(talk) 2806:Survey 2763:Number 2727:Number 2602:Number 2442:Number 2406:Number 2370:Number 2313:Number 2255:Number 2215:Number 2164:Number 2123:Number 2072:Number 2054:(talk) 1987:Number 1926:Number 1866:Number 1812:Number 1775:Number 1738:Number 1729:WP:ANI 1675:WP:BRD 1642:Number 1594:Number 1578:WP:BRD 1519:Oppose 1502:Oppose 1438:Number 1408:. The 1375:Simple 1326:Virant 1128:Number 1080:Number 996:Number 981:Virant 957:Number 942:Virant 914:Number 905:24,600 735:Virant 673:Number 640:Oppose 614:Virant 523:, and 491:Update 303:Expand 211:Assess 123:Israel 114:Israel 70:Israel 47:scale. 5420:WP:OR 4801:) and 4440:Notes 4322:WP:OR 3546:WP:OR 3324:WP:OR 3295:WP:OR 3275:WP:OR 3196:WP:OR 3171:WP:OR 3107:WP:OR 3079:WP:OR 2956:WP:OR 2823:user: 2203:WP:OR 2046:user: 1967:WP:OR 1527:Chair 1466:Ajnem 1422:Ajnem 1412:has " 1363:WP:UE 1200:Ajnem 1119:WP:UE 1105:Ajnem 1061:Ajnem 876:9,894 871:Total 859:1,390 844:1,570 829:2,840 814:3,200 644:WP:UE 503:Other 474:Stubs 457:Photo 187:purge 182:watch 5475:talk 5460:talk 5446:talk 5431:talk 5403:talk 5387:talk 5368:talk 5353:talk 5335:talk 5321:talk 5306:talk 5257:talk 5238:talk 5202:talk 5187:talk 5151:talk 5112:talk 5093:talk 5075:talk 5033:talk 5018:talk 4981:talk 4918:talk 4882:talk 4868:talk 4854:talk 4839:talk 4822:only 4809:talk 4793:talk 4751:talk 4716:talk 4656:talk 4642:talk 4607:talk 4589:talk 4574:talk 4530:talk 4515:talk 4431:talk 4405:and 4334:.... 4308:talk 4284:talk 4245:talk 4227:talk 4187:talk 4172:talk 4136:talk 4101:talk 4086:talk 4043:talk 4028:talk 3999:talk 3963:talk 3928:and 3914:talk 3874:talk 3785:talk 3770:that 3672:talk 3650:talk 3623:talk 3606:talk 3590:talk 3457:talk 3414:talk 3378:talk 3359:talk 3332:talk 3283:talk 3243:talk 3204:talk 3161:talk 3116:talk 3069:talk 3055:and 3038:talk 2993:talk 2946:talk 2909:talk 2886:talk 2867:talk 2819:). 2817:here 2788:talk 2752:talk 2715:talk 2584:and 2558:only 2545:talk 2470:talk 2430:talk 2395:talk 2352:talk 2338:talk 2295:talk 2280:talk 2240:talk 2210:this 2189:talk 2148:talk 2111:talk 2097:talk 2027:talk 2012:talk 1952:talk 1891:talk 1854:talk 1840:talk 1800:talk 1763:talk 1683:talk 1627:talk 1617:and 1537:Tony 1510:talk 1493:talk 1470:talk 1426:talk 1386:talk 1365:and 1330:talk 1233:talk 1220:for 1204:talk 1181:talk 1109:talk 1065:talk 985:talk 946:talk 739:talk 658:has 646:and 618:talk 609:talk 583:talk 577:. -- 479:See 444:NPOV 411:See 246:and 222:and 172:edit 142:High 4465:it. 4418:not 3320:all 1489:BDD 1224:at 909:996 903:vs 881:745 849:495 819:132 799:894 759:vs 605:BDD 579:BDD 423:Map 5506:: 5477:) 5462:) 5448:) 5433:) 5370:) 5362:-- 5355:) 5337:) 5323:) 5308:) 5259:) 5240:) 5204:) 5189:) 5153:) 5114:) 5095:) 5077:) 5035:) 5027:-- 5020:) 5012:-- 4983:) 4920:) 4884:) 4870:) 4856:) 4848:-- 4841:) 4753:) 4718:) 4658:) 4644:) 4609:) 4591:) 4576:) 4532:) 4517:) 4433:) 4229:) 4189:) 4174:) 4138:) 4103:) 4088:) 4055:? 4045:) 4037:-- 4030:) 4001:) 3965:) 3916:) 3876:) 3801:, 3787:) 3674:) 3652:) 3625:) 3608:) 3592:) 3459:) 3416:) 3408:-- 3380:) 3361:) 3334:) 3285:) 3245:) 3206:) 3163:) 3129:. 3118:) 3071:) 3051:, 3040:) 2995:) 2948:) 2911:) 2888:) 2869:) 2790:) 2754:) 2717:) 2472:) 2432:) 2397:) 2354:) 2340:) 2297:) 2289:-- 2282:) 2242:) 2191:) 2150:) 2142:-- 2113:) 2099:) 2069:. 2029:) 2021:-- 2014:) 1954:) 1893:) 1856:) 1842:) 1802:) 1765:) 1685:) 1629:) 1512:) 1495:) 1472:) 1428:) 1388:) 1332:) 1254:) 1235:) 1206:) 1183:) 1111:) 1067:) 987:) 948:) 834:65 804:50 741:) 725:, 710:, 706:, 620:) 603:. 594:→ 585:) 519:, 355:, 351:, 347:, 343:, 339:, 335:, 331:, 327:, 323:, 319:, 315:, 311:, 5473:( 5458:( 5444:( 5429:( 5406:· 5401:( 5390:· 5385:( 5366:( 5351:( 5333:( 5319:( 5304:( 5279:7 5274:5 5255:( 5236:( 5200:( 5185:( 5172:7 5167:5 5149:( 5137:7 5132:5 5110:( 5091:( 5073:( 5031:( 5016:( 5003:7 4998:5 4979:( 4916:( 4903:7 4898:5 4880:( 4866:( 4852:( 4837:( 4817:) 4812:· 4807:( 4796:· 4791:( 4749:( 4737:7 4732:5 4714:( 4678:7 4673:5 4654:( 4640:( 4629:7 4624:5 4605:( 4587:( 4572:( 4552:7 4547:5 4528:( 4513:( 4496:7 4491:5 4479:( 4429:( 4358:. 4311:· 4306:( 4287:· 4282:( 4247:) 4243:( 4225:( 4185:( 4170:( 4134:( 4122:7 4117:5 4099:( 4084:( 4068:7 4063:5 4041:( 4026:( 3997:( 3985:7 3980:5 3961:( 3945:7 3940:5 3912:( 3895:7 3890:5 3872:( 3822:7 3817:5 3783:( 3718:7 3713:5 3670:( 3648:( 3621:( 3604:( 3588:( 3455:( 3435:7 3430:5 3412:( 3399:7 3394:5 3376:( 3357:( 3330:( 3310:7 3305:5 3281:( 3264:7 3259:5 3241:( 3225:7 3220:5 3202:( 3186:7 3181:5 3159:( 3142:7 3137:5 3114:( 3097:7 3092:5 3067:( 3049:J 3036:( 3019:7 3014:5 2991:( 2971:7 2966:5 2944:( 2931:7 2926:5 2907:( 2884:( 2865:( 2853:7 2848:5 2826:j 2786:( 2773:7 2768:5 2750:( 2737:7 2732:5 2713:( 2612:7 2607:5 2553:) 2548:· 2543:( 2468:( 2452:7 2447:5 2428:( 2416:7 2411:5 2393:( 2380:7 2375:5 2350:( 2336:( 2323:7 2318:5 2293:( 2278:( 2265:7 2260:5 2238:( 2225:7 2220:5 2187:( 2174:7 2169:5 2146:( 2133:7 2128:5 2109:( 2095:( 2082:7 2077:5 2049:j 2025:( 2010:( 1997:7 1992:5 1969:) 1950:( 1936:7 1931:5 1889:( 1876:7 1871:5 1852:( 1838:( 1822:7 1817:5 1798:( 1785:7 1780:5 1761:( 1748:7 1743:5 1722:? 1681:( 1652:7 1647:5 1625:( 1604:7 1599:5 1521:— 1508:( 1491:( 1468:( 1448:7 1443:5 1424:( 1384:( 1328:( 1231:( 1202:( 1179:( 1138:7 1133:5 1107:( 1090:7 1085:5 1063:( 1006:7 1001:5 983:( 967:7 962:5 944:( 924:7 919:5 864:3 761:4 737:( 729:. 683:7 678:5 616:( 607:( 581:( 527:. 514:: 505:: 494:: 485:. 477:: 468:. 460:: 447:: 438:. 426:: 417:. 409:: 400:. 392:: 383:. 375:: 366:. 306:: 297:. 289:: 276:: 267:. 259:: 250:. 237:: 228:. 214:: 154:. 53:: 20:)

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index