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4th. I think it is important not to obscure this fact. It's not necessary to highlight it either. The main issue that picking these arbitrary time periods raises is the possibility of obscuring the actual distribution of rocket attacks against Israel. I don't think this article needs to highlight the
November 4th date, before which there were few rocket attacks, and after which rocket attacks increased dramatically, however, the article should not make this fact
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1556:. This does not mean that any article that might be seen by some to show one side in a conflict in a bad light needs to be balanced by an equal and opposite article about the other side. Neutrality and balance are not the same. However if you want to create an article naming every Palestinian killed by Israeli forces in 2008 please go ahead... it'll be quite a task: there were 225 killed in just one day in December.
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claiming responsibility for the attack. ... The sources added that the shell landed in an open area in the
Western Negev area, causing no damages or injuries. This is the second time a homemade shell has been fired since the beginning of this week. A homemade shell was fired earlier this week by a group calling itself the Hawks, one of the armed groups of Fateh movement.
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1623:"3000 rocket and mortar attacks occurred during the year in which Hamas pledged a cease fire." That would also be true. And of course, we could count up the tonnage of munitions dropped on Gaza by Israel from November 4th to December 19th, and write, "during the six month cease fire X tonnes of bombs were dropped on Gaza."
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If one is not reading carefully, it makes it seem that 300 plus rockets where fired over a six month period equally dispersed across those months. In fact, the vast majority of those attacks came after
November 4th. We could be accurate and yet still be even more misleading if we said, for example,
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I am, and so I made you people aware of the fact it is not on the article's main space. It should be clearly seen because it is perhaps the most important thing. I may have given a biased and innapropriate personal opinion here but I am I not right to assume whatever my reasons may be, the death toll
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Ha'aretz reports frequently on
Israeli government mistakes, contradictions, lies, etc. As a pro-Palestinian person, I am pleased with the openness of its journalism. Just recently, Ha'aretz revealed that the current Operation Cast Iron was being planned for the past six months. I can understand being
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The term "cease fire" is commonly used to refer to a particular kind of agreement, contract or truce. Normally people don't use the phrase "cease fire" in the way FlaviaR is suggesting. You could say that if one party to a cease fire does something, say fires a rocket or maintains a blockade, that
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Counting the rocket attacks against Israel in relation to the six months of cease fire seems to me to be a dubious move for wikipedia. This number comes from the source "The Six Months of the Lull
Arrangement," produced by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence
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The article has the sentence "According to the
Israeli military's count on December 27th, 3,000 rockets hit Israel since the beginning of the year." But if you add up the number in the "visual summary" table provided, you get 1704 rockets. Maybe this discrepancy should be explained. Perhaps the
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Likewise, as I was reading a bit more closely, in the
November section there is a reference to rockets being fired between October 29th, and November 6th. This period is arbitrary, and again, reading quickly it is difficult to tell that the rocket attacks on Israel mostly occurred after November
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what i rethink is to exchange arguments with you as the purpose of this discussion should be to improve the article. the sources on which this article is based are clearly one sided. oh, and the cited ynet article is indeed about a group that supports israel, but it's the way they report about it
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The "global news service for jewish people" is not an
Israeli source. If you can;t make a distinction between "Jewish" and 'Israeli", you should probably rethink your participation in editing Israel-related articles. Ha'aretz and Ynet are mainstream publications, with a editorial oversight and a
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the cease fire (obviously, assuming that those actions are in violation of the terms of the agreement). However, assuming there was some kind of agreement between the two sides to refrain from attacking each other, one still calls this a cease fire. So, following the normal usage of the phrase
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I am dissatisfied with IHT but hardly have the time or energy to find non-IHT sources for everything referenced by IHT. If I find the occasional non-IHT western source, perhaps I could note it in the discussion? I do not know how to add something to an artciel and then refernce it at the bottom.
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July 03, 2008 by Saed
Bannoura - IMEMC & Agencies Israeli sources reported on Thursday that one Palestinian homemade shell was fired from the Gaza Strip at a Kibbutz in the Sha’r Ha-Negev Regional Council; no injuries were reported. So far, armed groups in Gaza have not issued any release
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of course, and the "global news service for jewish people" is a credible and neutral source as well, isn't it (you counted it to the sources which are not israeli)? ynet and haaretz are (of course) not as credible as NY times or quality newspapers just because they're mainstream in israel.
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the article currently lists 67 references. 32 of them are not
Israeli (IHT, Reuters, NYT etc..) - so it is factually incorrect that "the overwhelming majority of "sources" are israeli". Of the sources that are Israeli, "the overwhelming majority" are Ha'aretz and Ynet, which are mainstream
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I propose changing the title of this article to "List of rocket, missile and mortar attacks on Israel in 2008". This is a more accurate description of the article as at the moment it does not only feature Qassam attacks but also mortar attacks, general missile attacks, and A Katyusha
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The article you cite is not any evidence of bias - it is a news report about a group that supports Israel. Even if Ynet were 'right wing", that would not make it a non-reliable source, just like the Guardian is a reliable source despite a pronounced left-wing editorial stance.
1713:"cease fire," there was a cease fire and it was broken. (Although, as I believe is reflected in my earlier comments, we should be transparent about the violations of the cease fire. I think the article, as it is, obscures somewhat the order and nature of the violations.)
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The graphic table of rockets provides numbers that are inconsistent with the "visual summary" table. For example, table lists January as 136, but graphic as 241; February table 228, graphic 257; March table 103, graphic 196. Most of the numbers fail to match.
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Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not
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so I've amended the opening section to say this. I can understand the temptation to compare this with Palestinian deaths but I don't think it's appropriate or relevant to this article. You might as well pick some other random statistic as a comparison
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NPOV needs to be restored in these one-sided articles focussed solely on rocket attacks on Israel, without any context, motivations, response reasons or other balancing data. I will embark on a correction of this unacceptable NPOV imbalance.
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suspicious of certain sources, but casting aspersion on a source simply because it is Jewish or because it is Israeli goes beyond the normal need for caution in using sources. We really need to check ourselves for our own racism.
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Looking at this article it seems to me that it mostly complies with WP guidelines and policies. However I am concerned that some of the dead are named, making those small sections able to be criticised as a possible memorial.
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accurate. But it would also be accurate to write that between the beginning of the cease fire in June, and the Israeli operation against Hamas members on November 4th there were less than two dozen rockets fired.
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I admit to being confused not just by this question, but by the article itself. How can there have been a cease-fire if there were rockets to count in the first place?? If there are rockets fired, there is no cease
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https://web.archive.org/web/20111219192940/http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%20Obstacle%20to%20Peace/Palestinian%20terror%20since%202000/Victims%20of%20Palestinian%20Violence%20and%20Terrorism%20sinc.htm
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You've made the request on the Talk page, which is the place for it. This is an encyclopedia, and the article space is not a shopping list - please don't deface it with a 'fill in the blanks' sentence.
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The heading of the "visual summary" says "Rockets and Mortars Launched from Gaza May-Nov '08." Yet it provides data from January to December. This may frustrate some readers concerned with accuracy.
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1405:"Missile" is usually reserved to describe guided rockets, and none of those used in this conflict have been guided. I'd support renaming it to "List of rocket and mortar attacks in Israel in 2008"
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The sources of there article are made up of roughly one half international news stories, and one half mainstream Israeli newspapers, which are reliable sources. We are done here.
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By the way, I added quotation marks to the sentence which reports on the "operation" on the evening between Nov. 4th and Nov. 5th, because it is verbatim from the I.S.A. report.
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Possibly a minor point - your description of the cease fire is exactly what I meant - i.e., someone breaks it - so, obviously, normally people do mean it the way I mean it :-)
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There are other inconsistencies. The paragraph describing August lower down in the article lists numbers different from those in the tables at the beginning of the article.
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To my knowledge the terms are interchangeable due to the fact that we are translating from Arabic. There are also multiple versions of Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda.
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I do not have it. But I strongly suggest someone to go and have a look at this: it looks very unprofessional this way. I'll re-add my info: you fill out the blanks.
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http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%2BObstacle%2Bto%2BPeace/Palestinian%2Bterror%2Bsince%2B2000/Victims%2Bof%2BPalestinian%2BViolence%2Band%2BTerrorism%2Bsinc.htm
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He may be biased and wishes the information for propaganda purposes, but the total death toll is a useful fact that should be included. Is anybody aware of it?
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number is derived by adding rockets and mortars, or because there have been rockets fired from somewhere other than Gaza. It's unclear from the article.
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13 against +600, how come the israelis still take themselves seriously? Now then, go ahead and put the 13 in the lead. No, wait, I'll do that!
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found an IMEMC article describing homemade rocket not listed in the article Homemade shell fired at a Kibbutz in the Negev
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record for correcting mistakes when the make them, they are every bit as credible as the New York Times or USA Today.
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http://web.archive.org/web/20090125123508/http://ap.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5jD4YSkDPlclqd9dHvg2f0Ij18zEgD8UN0D0O0
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If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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It seems to me that in the interests of neutrality there should be (tho' the list would sadly be rather long!)
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the overwhelming majority of "sources" are israeli, not credible ones, partly from government institutions! --
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anything regarding the lull between June 19th, and November 4th. Just provide the numbers in a clear way.
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From the paragraph on Dec. 19th: "During the six month cease fire 329 rockets and mortar shells were fired."
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Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.
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what is the total death tall? can that be given? does it compare to the 300 palestinians the demons killed?
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1268:. I think there have been a further five fatal casualties since then but currently can't find a source.
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OK... checking a couple of sources and the text of this article, it seems that the body count is
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I'm pretty sure the 2008 total number of deaths in Israel from rocket and mortar attacks is
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procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the
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I've added a graph with the data. I'll do one with the mortar statistics as well. //
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/g_report_e1.pdf
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ynet even for israeli norms is right wing and sometimes they make it vividly clear
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf
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Is there a reason why some names have been left in? And might they be removed?
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From 2001 when the missile attacks started until 27 April 2008, 13 Israelis were
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/ipc_e007.pdf
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/ipc_e007.pdf
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Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran
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1203:(and number of wounded not to forget) should be clearly stated in the article?
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http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/Hebrew/heb_n/pdf/ipc_007.pdf
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there does not appear to be any consensus for your desired changes over at
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related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
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I think this statement should be removed. Also, I don't advocate putting
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Why count rockets in relation to the 6 month window of the cease fire?
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newspapers, every bit as credible as teh New York Times or USA Today.
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I think on here it's only expected that articles are written from a
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Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the
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1047:"No." is not an argument that is likely to impress many people.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7197550,00.html
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No demon attacks were reported in the last 2,000 years afaik.
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I'd say, that we should look for alternative sources to
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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Talk:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2008
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Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
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List of rocket and mortar attacks BY Israel in 2008
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List of rocket and mortar attacks BY Israel in 2008
2019:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2008
1869:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2008
1421:Summary of rocket fire and mortar shelling in 2008
1105:, which I wouldn't call unbiased on this issue. --
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1571:3000 rockets in 2008 or 1700?
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631:Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu
415:Template:WikiProject Israel
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2128:(last update: 5 June 2024)
2014:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1970:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1889:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
1864:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1835:09:03, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
1761:Personal names of the dead
714:. Add maps to articles in
595:Diamond industry in Israel
434:project's importance scale
336:project's importance scale
316:Palestine-related articles
137:purpose of Knowledge (XXG)
74:purpose of Knowledge (XXG)
55:You must be logged-in and
2005:00:10, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
1854:07:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
1749:19:03, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
1099:Jewish Telegraphic Agency
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2165:02:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
1307:in 2008 for example...)
1266:killed by Qassam rockets
971:] how biased they are.--
654:Geographical coordinates
145:normal editorial process
82:normal editorial process
2010:External links modified
1860:External links modified
623:Public Defence (Israel)
524:is available. See also
418:Israel-related articles
151:Arbitration enforcement
867:deleted by other users
207:This article is rated
141:standards of behaviour
78:standards of behaviour
1792:'s interpretation of
1554:neutral point of view
445:Project Israel To Do:
277:WikiProject Palestine
211:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
47:Arab–Israeli conflict
2109:regular verification
1951:regular verification
1875:. If necessary, add
912:) 05:11, 30 December
530:the tool's wiki page
526:the list by category
131:After being warned,
61:making edit requests
2099:After February 2018
1941:After February 2018
1920:parameter below to
1127:, blah blah blah".
794:Translate to Hebrew
95:Further information
2153:InternetArchiveBot
2104:InternetArchiveBot
1946:InternetArchiveBot
1129:Jalapenos do exist
710:See discussion at
395:WikiProject Israel
290:State of Palestine
286:Palestinian people
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133:contentious topics
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153:noticeboard.
130:
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1932:Sourcecheck
1802:Timeshifter
1469:Thank you.
1365:—Preceding
1182:—Preceding
916:2008 (UTC)
538:Collaborate
302:discussions
2173:Categories
2160:Report bug
1708:party has
1286:Great Gall
1236:Great Gall
1205:Great Gall
1149:Great Gall
1143:Death toll
807:Guy Oseary
599:Edna Arbel
209:List-class
2143:this tool
2136:this tool
1985:this tool
1978:this tool
1846:All Rows4
1652:to see.
1533:Johnbibby
1425:English:
1351:Lastdingo
1164:Lastdingo
1084:PinkWorld
1064:PinkWorld
923:PinkWorld
803:Guy Bavli
642:See also
498:Rate the
307:Palestine
282:Palestine
238:Palestine
143:, or any
116:required.
80:, or any
2149:Cheers.—
1991:Cheers.—
1879:cbignore
1431:Hebrew:
1407:NoCal100
1367:unsigned
1252:NoCal100
1219:NoCal100
1184:unsigned
1107:Raphael1
1101:and the
1049:NoCal100
1035:Severino
1020:NoCal100
1005:Severino
989:NoCal100
973:Severino
956:NoCal100
940:Severino
906:NoCal100
890:Severino
688:Maintain
555:Copyedit
288:and the
179:deletion
107:only to
2023:my edit
2001::Online
1918:checked
1873:my edit
1741:FlaviaR
1715:pete212
1687:FlaviaR
1668:pete212
1654:pete212
1634:pete212
1590:pete212
1489:Liftarn
1453:Liftarn
1390:attack.
884:Sources
869:before.
671:Infobox
516:Cleanup
459:history
334:on the
1926:failed
1887:nobots
1710:broken
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1471:Flayer
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805:, and
773:Update
585:Expand
493:Assess
409:Israel
400:Israel
359:Israel
215:scale.
1385:title
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1033:No.--
785:Other
756:Stubs
739:Photo
469:purge
464:watch
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1125:ITIC
1121:ITIC
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850:Tip:
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504:and
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